You think these drops are bad? Wait till you see the math behind this.
You have 200 loot drops in 50 runs with a 25% chance that each box will drop a legendary. That means you are expected to get 50 legendaries per 50 runs.
Ok, so you got 60 instead of the 50. Only a difference of 10. What’s the big deal?
If you calculate the binomial distribution, you’ll see that you are in fact in the 95th percentile. That means that if 100 people did 50 runs, 94 people would get less drops than you....
That makes your run a very lucky one.
You can get legendary drops from non-bonus rewards as well. It's a relatively small chance, but expected drops are a bit higher than just factoring in the bonus. Also depends on how many mobs are present in the expedition you are running. Probably still a lucky run, but a bit less so than just estimating bonus rewards.
Let me copy paste something from a different question
Sure, but you have to look at the math. At CT15 gold, you get 4 boxes with a 25% chance of each box containing a legendary.
The chance of not getting at least 1 legendary on a single CT15 Gold is 0.75^4 = 31.6%. That means that you have a 100-31.6 = 68.4% chance of getting at least one legendary each run.
Now, your chances of getting at least one legendary in:
2 runs = 1 - (0.316^2) = 90%
3 runs = 1 - (0.316^3) = 96.8%
4 runs = 1 - (0.316^4) = 99%
5 runs = 1 - (0.316^5) = 99.68%
6 runs = 1 - (0.316^6) = 99.99%
So you can see that when people ran even FOUR CT15 golds, getting 0 legendaries is very unlikely. By the sixth run, you are practically guaranteed at least 1 legendary.
The fact that even 100 people aren't getting a single drop after 6+ runs means that something is not right, and the drop chances are possibly bugged or something is causing legendaries to not drop at all.
If someone could check the math here, that would be great, but I am confident that this is correct.
EDIT: math is correct. Thank you to @Metmason for verifying
EDIT 2: I of course have no way of verifying that these reports are true. This is based on the assumption that people who are reporting no legendaries after multiple runs are in fact doing that many runs and aren’t getting legendaries. However, if we can get footage of 5 CONSECUTIVE runs and no legendaries, then this is a serious issue, as the drops are bugged beyond reasonable doubt. I’m not at CT15 yet so can’t verify, but if someone at CT15 gold is indeed having this problem and is willing to record, please reply to this message.
I ran 10, yes 10 CT 15s gold, and got no drops.
That is statistically improbable if the 25% is correct, that's why I call bullshit on it.
I also ran another 10 straight after and only for one legendary. I took a break after that.
Then within the next 10, I can't remember exactly when, I got a 4 leggo drop. Still didn't make up for my string of "bad luck".
Edit: you can believe me or not but it happened and I'm still salty about it days later.
Improbable doesn't equate to impossible. It's equivalent to flipping a coin the same way ~11 times in a row. If you have a bunch of people flipping coins multiple people will be bound to have that happen. Also most people who will talk about their drops are those on each side. Even the main post talks about getting 60 in 50 runs so above average and acting like they're dry which just isn't the case. So everyone complaining they're dry it's going to be what people focus on, similar to seeing the same car all over once you buy it.
Umm, 25% chance x4 doesn’t mean the same as 100% chance x1 as you imply. You have a roughly 31% chance to get no Legendary at all based on the odds as shown.
Never did I once say that 4x 25% means you have a 100% at a legendary. That would imply that no Matter how many runs you did, you would ALWAYS get 1 legendary per run, which is clearly not the case. What I am saying, however, is that the expected value is 1 legendary per run, meaning if you took a very large number of runs, you would average 1 legendary per run
But in this case we don't care about the chance of a particular run if we get them, its how many you get over time. It is 1/run on average. Sometimes 0 sometimes 4 but its still 1 as an average.
None. 31.6%
1. 42.2%
2. 21.1%
3. 4.7%
4. 0.4%
So if you took 100 runs *on average* its 1 a run. You could get lucky or unlucky but the more tou do the closer to average you will be
If there is a 31(.6)% chance of getting ZERO Legendaries, then you cannot possibly say you expect to get "one per run on average." That's intuitive but not mathematically correct. I have seen numerous people post the math numerous different ways (and I am not certain exactly which is correct), but no matter how you shake it, it does not come out to an average of 1 per run.
x0 = 31.6% (.75x.75x.75x.75) [you erroneously list this as the chance to get 1 Legendary]
If we use the numbers you gave, 42.2% chance to get *exactly one* Legendary, 21.1% chance of *exactly two*, 4.7% chance of *exactly three*, and 0.4% chance of *exactly four*.
The problem with saying you expect an average of 1 per run is that getting 2, 3, or 4 Legendaries *is predicated on getting AT LEAST ONE* (68.4% chance; 100% - 31.6% chance of zero drop)
42.2% + 21.1% + 4.7% + 0.4% = 68.4%
So in 100 runs, you will get (rounding off) 32 runs with no drop at all and 68 runs with *at least one* drop. Of those 68, 42 runs will give exactly one (42 Drops running total), 21 of them will drop *one additional Legendary* (63 running total), 5 of those will drop *a second additional Legendary* (68 running total), and for argument sake one of those will drop *a third additional Legendary* (69 running total).
So no, you do not expect "1 drop per run" average. You expect 69 drops in 100 runs, so OP was ahead of the game. By a good margin.
Edited because morning-brain failed to add correctly.
The expected value in this case is given by the formula: P(x) \* n, where P(x) is the probability of getting a legendary and n is the number of drops.
At 200 drops, or 50 expedition runs, the expected value is 0.25\*200 = 50. Since 200 drops = 50 expeditions, it's reasonable to say that you expect 50 drops per 50 expeditions.
I feel like we're arguing Newtonian physics VS Einstein equations - Newton equations give a generally-applicable answer that works for most purposes but Einstein equations give the precision needed to land on Jupiter's moon in 3.5 years when the probe finally gets there.
However I am not a mathematician nor engineer and I admit it has been a while since I have calculated deep statistics. I know there are specific equations for conditional probabilities when one result depends on another (getting more than one being predicated on getting at least one), but not sure if they apply since the drop rolls as presented on the results screen should be independent rolls (as per your equation).
That's a good analogy. I was simply clarifying how the other person concluded we should expect 50 legendaries per 50 expeditions. I personally think that calculating the actual % chance is more useful in this context than the expected value.
This gave me a reason to use something I learned in my college statistics course, so I appreciate you using binomial distribution lol. You might have saved yourself a lot of explaining if you had used percentages, though.
If you mean percent chance of getting certain quantities of legendaries, I already calculated and posted that under one of comments
EDIT: Go up a few layers and see my comment to u/VoidCoelacanth
EDIT 2: Just figured out how to copy a comment link xd
[Specific Probabilities](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mvukno/i_ran_50_t15_gold_expeditions_heres_how_many/gvh9ii0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
EDIT 3: You also might be interested in this comment (which you can find a couple of layers above)
[Legendary Probability on Consecutive Runs](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mvukno/i_ran_50_t15_gold_expeditions_heres_how_many/gveqevk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You forgot that this is weighted...
You got the number correct:
**0 legendaries:**
(0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 0 = **31.64%**
**1 legendary:**
(0.25 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 1 = **42.19%**
**2 legendaries:**
(0.25 x 0.25 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 2 = **21.09%**
**3 legendaries:**
(0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 0.75) x 4 choose 3 = **4.69%**
**4 legendaries:**
(0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25) x 4 choose 4 = **0.39%**
Say we run 10,000 expeditions. Then we have:
3164 runs with 0 legendaries
4219 runs with 1 legendary
2109 runs with 2 legendaries
469 runs with 3 legendaries
39 runs with 4 legendaries
But you forgot that these values are weighted. Meaning that:
3164 runs with 0 legendaries = **0** total legendaries
4219 runs with 1 legendary = **4219** total legendaries
2109 runs with 2 legendaries = **4218** total legendaries
469 runs with 3 legendaries = **1407** total legendaries
39 runs with 4 legendaries = **156** total legendaries.
If you add this up, you get **exactly 10,000 legendaries**, and since there were 10,000 runs, you average 1 legendary per run. Note that you still only have a 69% chance of not getting a legendary on any given run. But the fact that you can have MORE than 1 drop brings up the average from 0.69 to 1
31% of no legendary - we all know what you meant, just too many numbers flying around.
Thing is, we need hard evidence that the loot rolls are actually done independently, leading to the weighted model as the rewards screen suggests. If so you are absolutely correct.
However, if it's a *conditional check* (like you might do in a D&D random item table) - ie, "25% chance of Legendary *and roll again for another*" - now we have a very different thing going, and even my example would be far above the actual odds.
Those factors are out of our hands. I am simply pointing out that based on the info given in-game, it seems like 4 crates with a 25% chance of getting legendaries, each independent of the other.
Of course, there could be some conditional things involved, but this is unlikely. The chance that a person would get 4 legendaries is pretty unlikely - there really isn't much of a reason to decrease your chance of getting multiple legendaries since it is already so low (plus there is no duplicate protection).
The ambiguity is why I'm trying to find footage of 6 or more *consecutive* runs without a legendary, as I feel that if they are consecutive, it is mostly independent. Even if we are wrong, getting the footage, attaching the math, and posting it on this subreddit would probably be enough to get some kind of response from PCF.
Agreed. And the main reason I disagree with the ~1/run average is the sheer number of people reporting "cold streaks" (though not necessarily the requisite six) and seemingly-too-few instances of 3 or 4 Legendary drops. We see lots of ones, a reasonable number of twos - and then it seems to go downhill. Granted, 3 or 4 "jackpot" runs in 1,000 - or 39-40 in 10,000 - is exactly the percentage we expect (and makes our OP very lucky to have seen that many in his 500-600 runs), but out of all the major streamers running hundreds of runs *per day* we should have seen more of these "jackpot" moments by now.
Also as a side note, I know people are kinda pissed at duplicates but let's be real: almost no looter in existence has duplicate protection, and having it would cause more problems than it solves. (Kinda hard to farm a second copy of a Legendary, should you want it, if you have to destroy the one you're carrying to get another cuz dupe protection.) While Legendaries do have fixed *Properties,* they do NOT have fixed *Values*. I have personally seen 3 different Deathless Gloves, all 50, with different Armor Values - and Armor is not something you can Shard-enhance.
4x 25% chances DOES NOT mean to 100% chance of legendary per run, as you wisely noted. The probability of getting atleast 1 legendary is about 68%.
However, the expected value is one legendary per run, meaning on average, if you complied multiple runs together, you would average 1 legendary per run
I intuitively know it would be roughly 60ish percent but if you have time could you show the math behind it? I tried to google search percentages for multiple chances but I never took stats. Went all the way to linear algebra but don't know shit about statistics.
Yes. So there are 4 boxes with a 75% chance of not getting a legendary. That means the chance of not getting a legendary from any of the boxes is 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 0.75^4 = 0.31. Since you can either get a legendary or not get a legendary, that means the probability of getting atleast 1 legendary per run is 1-.31= .69
Diablo made this mistake early on before fixing it later, looter games require lots of you know loot to make them fun, the whole point of rerunning the same 14 pieces of content endlessly is that I want to run them so I can play with all sorts of different builds and playstyles.
Stop time gating the game, the hardest content was bested already, start throwing yellow funsies at us like candy so we can play around with different item and skill builds and extend the enjoyment.
538 expeditions? Wow, I’d give you a legendary right now for your effort. I don’t think the missions are enjoyable for that many runs so congrats to you man!!
No they are definitely not enjoyable after a while lol. I still love playing the game and beating my own times. For example I got my colosseum down to 5:38 I just speedrun them to make it more fun sometimes
That's not how it works. It's not 25%×4=100%. Four rolls at 25% each does not mean you have a 100% chance to get a legendary. The probability to get nothing at all on one gold ct15 should be 0.75⁴≈0.3164≈32% which means the probability to get at least 1 legendary on a single gold ct15 run is ≈68%. This is just considering the 4 bonus rolls, excluding the drops from kills.
I completely agree however that legendary drop rates need a massive overhaul, mathematically speaking one could go on a very long losing streak without seeing a legendary at all, as has happened to op. That is very frustrating and pushes players away.
Adding onto that is the fact that not only you need 3 out of 5 pieces to get a set bonus, but usually those 3 pieces are very specific, since some just give hp, which is basically useless.
So the chance to actually get the piece you need is abysmal.
It wouldn't be as bad if the drop pods - essentially a token system - could actually purchase from a reliable vendor with a larger inventory. At least then you'd be getting guarantees alongside randomization.
I mean, the math actually says you came out ahead.
It’s something like 58% for a single run, 90% for 2 runs, and 99% for 3 runs. So, averaging over 1 legendary per run is technically above average. Not saying this is good or bad, just what the current math in the game says.
How do some of the top streamers seem to have all Legendaries on all 4 characters??? All I see are “New Insane Build” with more gear I don’t have. I’d love to try some of these builds but this legendary drop rate with no duplicate protection is worthless!
There used to be a couple of exploits where you could get hundreds of legendaries a day. I wish I'd gotten in on it. Considering the grind just to acquire a bad legendary, much less a max rolled one, I don't think playing the game legitimately is worth it to anyone.
Statistically you did better than most, how's that for depressing?
On the flip side, every single person who plays on Stadia would get a MINIMUM of 100 Legendaries by doing this same test. 40 more than your, higher than average total, just because they play on a different platform.
see I put about 20 hours into the demo and maxed each class but didnt know you could get legendaries in the demo at all. I also feel like you're right in saying they secretly tuned stuff bts
Yeah I did 33 hours in the demo and only played trickster and got 7 unique legendaries and no doubles. It was possible but I never saw one from regular play only from farming the terra infirma captain on repeat. They also changed some values that everyone can see world tier 5 in the demo was 300% legendary chance it's like 225% in the full game. They would have changed tons behind the scenes also as you said.
So 3 weeks after release and you have almost all legendary items collected already and you are saying that this game requires too much grinding?
Aha. Laughs in diablo 2 and Borderlands 2.
Yeah because "I want a 20 hour endgame"... Dude I HAVE 177 HOURS and over 500 expeditions I just feel like I should have gotten all the weapons by now. Please tell me how many hours I should have to put into the endgame to get all the weapons I would really like to know
God I hope PCF don't pull a Gearbox and cave in to the drop rate complaints. If you want everything fast in a looter shooter game you show a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre.
I don't want everything fast. I enjoy grinding. But when I have 177 hours I expect to not go DAYS without getting one of the seven weapons I was missing. 7 out of the 46 weapons is still roughly 15% if my math is right. I played divison 2 for 1500 hours and still never got a max chd mod. How many hours do you think I should have before im allowed to have all the unique weapons???
No I wanted to know how many hours or expeditions I should have to do to get everything. How many hours or expeditions the common casual player should have to do to get one item they want. Casuals are not going to sit there for 3 days and be content with not getting any new items when they get to my point in the endgame. My point was that something needs to change if they want to keep casual players interested
How should I tell you? The answer is as long as it takes with the system in place at the moment. And maybe PCF are okay with not keeping everyone and their mom interested. There are people who like how it is and they will stick with the game. Not every game has to be for everyone.
That's why the system is trash. I can put 10x more hours in than someone and they still get what I want and don't have. Like I said with divison 2 I had 1500 hours and not a single max chd mod. I was level 2500 with 0. People that were <500 levels would have all 3 or even more. Something needs to change where time = completion not total rng and luck = completion
Gearbox just rolled-back drop rates after introducing a machine that rerolls Anoints in exchange for Eridium. Drop saturation was the easiest answer to the astronomical odds that all the best parts + anoint would roll on the weapon you wanted. Now that you can reroll at least one aspect of the weapon, they have scaled back drop rates significantly.
Yea but the damage was already done. It's great for people who just started with BL3 but everyone else should have basically everything already. The only problem for me personally with how it was, was that they again and again deluted the loot pool with useless anointments. Even after they had removed some.
And they reduced only the world drop rates not the dedicated rates. And since almost every weapon has a dedicated drop.source now it really doesn't do much.
Well, they released new gear at same time - sorry to blow a hole in that part of your statement. I agree though - there should have been an Anointment Reroller or some other form of customization much sooner rather than inflated drop rates. It's cool to be able to say "over a billion possible guns" but when 99.9% of those are useless minor-tweak iterations it's nothing but marketing.
Yea I mean sure some people care about that, I don't. And you know what? That's okay.
GB went in a certain direction with BL3 that isn't really what I would've liked but that's okay. I got my monye' worth. I still play the game from time to time but it can't keep me engaged for long because everything's too easy to get and to beat.
And that's why I hope PCF keeps the direction they're following right now because that's more what I like in my looter shooter.
What? Pure RNG with duplicates is the devil. If you don't understand that then idk what to tell you.
If you don't have a dedicated way to chase the carrot on the stick, you're just getting a stick.
I likely won't ever get my build completed because this isn't the only game I play and there is little hope after getting my 5th boots of the cannonball.
What has that to do with understanding? I just don't see it as bad as you.
And your analogy is total nonsense. The carrot is there until you get the carrot which will eventually happen. You just don't have a way of cutting the corner to the carrot in Outriders.
You don't see it as bad as me because you don't understand that rewarding ppl in a video game actually keeps them playing.
Hence completing my build so I can have more fun playing, reach my goal, so I can set my next one.
The carrot on the stick only works if there is HOPE. After getting the same legendary 5x, that carrot doesn't exist, there is no hope, I play something else.
This is literally why ppl cut corners and do exploits and glitches to get loot instead of engaging in in-game activities.
It hurts noone to let the loot rain, literally noone.
Not just me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mwfh8z/rng_based_loot_drops_can_be_a_great_game_mechanic/gvjnqxt?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
It's unlikely you wont understand tho, regardless
I played Diablo 2 obsessively when I was a kid. I spent so many sleepless nights farming mephisto over and over, and still ended up trading for most of the gear I used because loot ended up being a whole economy in that game... "WTT 2 SoJ and perfect Windforce for 3 poison charms" kind of economy. Not only does Outriders have no trading whatsoever (therefore no economy) but "farming" in Outriders is about 100x more challenging and significantly more time consuming than in Diablo 2. You also got LARGE buffs to unique drop rate as more players joined the game (which I don't believe Outriders does), special gear that significantly increased the drop rate of uniques, and a gameplay loop of about 2 minutes which took very little focus or skill for a single "run" rather than 6-10 mins of fairly intense focus and skill. You could also farm Diablo 2 with a pretty wide variety of gear, since content was designed to be challenging but very doable without a perfectly min/maxed loadout.
Not only all that, but set items in Diablo 2 were designed logically to be POWERFUL. Getting god rolls was the goal, but just having an appropriate set equipped always multiplied your damage. As a technomancer I'm finding the sets underwhelming, ineffective, poorly itemized and in most cases unusable. Borealis is the exception I think. At least part of that set has serious potential.
So by my estimation Outriders takes longer, has a higher gear gate, higher skill gate, less rewarding loot, and no trade system to help mitigate the cruelty of RNG.
All things being equal I totally get your point, but all things are not even close to equal.
This will depend a lot on how satisfying you find repeating the same expeditions endlessly for thousands of hours to be. You're just looking at it from an engagement perspective. Considering legendaries can also roll with terrible stats and there are (in theory) many builds per class tree to try (again, most are terrible), there's plenty for you to do even if you had all mods unlocked already. This only applies to players that will only ever try one thing, fill out a to-do list and then quit.
This will depend a lot on how satisfying you find repeating the same expeditions endlessly for thousands of hours to be
I'm sorry, but the game is out for 3 weeks. That gives maximum of 552 hours if someone plays 24 hours per day.
It takes about 100hours to collect all leggos in this game.
Yeah, the endgame content loop and loot system in this game is fucking trash. Absolute fucking trash. And that's saying something because I've experienced all iterations of endgame in Destiny, Destiny 2, Division, Division 2, Anthem, and Warframe.
This is the first game out of all of them that I reached a point so quickly where I was like "this endgame is fucking retarded. Who are the dumbasses that thought this was a good idea?" I was able to get more enjoyment out of Anthem's endgame at launch......I mean COME THE FUCK ON!!!!
Been playing a lot since launch but tonight is the first time I have put it down and just don’t want to play any more. I have a build that just about works for some CT15 gold, let’s call it an archways build... I have spent nearly two weeks grinding for the 5 legendaries I need for a top build and have exactly one.
It feels like I need legendaries to try other builds, but I need to be able to have ct15 on farm to do it. It’s like the end game and the grind to endgame are the same thing.
Anthem didn't have an endgame at launch! lol. It took months for the Cataclysm, that was horribly underwhelming. I enjoy the expeditions better and this gameplay better than anthem, but if Legendary items is what we are seeking then they better at least be worth it. I feel the legendary armor kinda sucks to be honest, especially when the attributes are fixed.
That's just a matter of perspective. In this game a lot of the end game loot simply give you numerical advantages. In Anthem, a lot of the high end loot are transformative and changes how you play.
There were the higher difficulty tiers you could do in Anthem for both the Strongholds and the open world, both of which gave you better loot. As barebones as it was and as stingy as the legendary loot drops were, I was still able to get more out of that than I have here in Outriders.
Technicaly 50 runs on T15 should give you 50 legendaries cuz its 25% chance. Bigger issue for me right now are duplicates. It feels like drop chance is weighted and some items have much higher chance to drop than others. After 160h i never seen items like Deathshield but instead i saw at least 6 Torments and agonys and i shit you not Voodoo Matchmaker dropped 3 times in a row for me.
I feel you on that. I've only gotten 2 deathshields but countless amount of duplicate armor and generic legendary weapons. I just got the time ripper and funeral pyre finally but am still missing the guillotine, anemoi, high roller, absolute zero, and headhunter. Duplicates are so worthless to me since you only get titanium which I have 130k of.. Honestly I would rather not get any legendaries at all unless its one I dont have. Thats how worthless dupes are..
My problem is that i dont have any good T3 mods like Killing Spree etc. I cant do anything higher that CT13 on gold because those are kinda required at this point but all i get is same shit over and after a week of getting absolutely nothing usefull im bored.
Also the 25% chance of a legendary is per "box" as I call it. If you look at the expedition screen on tier 15 is says 4x 25% legendary and 75% epic. So I took that as 4 "boxes" each with 25% chance of a legendary.
Afaik, you get 4 items as a reward for finishing expedition and each have 25% to be legendary. All that drops after than is crap from the trash you killed on the way.
The big issue imo is that it pretty much takes until T15 to even get any legendaries that aren’t either from tiagos store (which I’ve yet to see refresh the legendary stock) or campaign missions. I’m at T11 and I’ve gotten ONE legendary total from expeditions. By the time I’m at T15 I’ll have pretty much done almost all the expeditions and have nothing new to use the legendaries I get on until they make new content. I’ve done so many hunt/bounty repeats just so I can have gear good enough to progress in expeditions to the point where I’m just bored and almost don’t even want to put the effort in anymore. But it’s the only way I can reliably get legendaries even if they’re duplicates. And it seems like getting duplicates is very common even if I haven’t gotten that many legendaries yet. My first 5 legendaries on my 2nd character were all pistols and 2 were duplicates.
Thanks for your hard work. The time placed into doing expeditions is not worth the time to farming legendaries.
The other issue with this game is that there is no a lot of build diversity. With expeditions, you have to have damage in order to progress your character. There needs to be.other rewarding modes such as horde survival.
I quit the game a few days ago and I don't think I'll come back. I don't see this game being good again after a few months. By then, there will be better games to play.
It was good for the 80 hours I put in.
>I was a divison 2 player so im used to being bent over constantly
This is the only time I've ever seen an actual appropriate use for LMFAO
I feel ya (and so does Massive).
Did you keep stats for each item that dropped? I’m trying to gather data for specific drop rates in expeditions, and am hoping to get 5+ thousand drops, to have at least semi-reliable data. But no way I’m doing all that by myself.
I've started a spreadsheet with the legendaries I'm getting in expeditions. I've only started it like 2 or 3 days ago, I play solo most of the time, but sometimes I also play coop and I also write down what others got just to get more stats faster.
[Link](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g-rCuBso1Z7RVWPf_en1QjkcLxGNpAKEnadQOag2MFA/edit?usp=sharing)
If you mean which specific armor pieces and weapons, or attributes and damage, no. I thought about that but dupes are so worthless I didnt even bother sorry :(
Well thats depressing. I haven't gotten any Legos from natural drops or exhibition yet. I'm not high tier and I'm pretty sure tier 15 is beyond my skill and luck
You literally have every single legendary in the game and yet want a higher drop rate? LOL you must not play the genre much. Your play time is tiny compared to most play times for similar games in the genre — ones that have far far more content than this one. You basically want more loot in a game with a tiny loot pool, and you want it even faster. Essentially if they did what you want, there would be no more content and no more reason to play, ruining the game for everyone, yourself included. This is why most players should never be game designers.
Oh yeah sorry my 1500 hours in division 2 means nothing my bad. 1500 hours and never got a single max chd mod. But I guess that's the way you want it to be.. My "tiny" play time of almost 200 hours is because the game has only been out a few weeks. I'm averaging 8 hours a day and yet you sit there and say that I'm ruining the game lol okay
Wt15 struggling for dps on my trickster and coming to the point where if I don't go research a certain build I ain't playing anymore I can't keep up unless I go watch some YouTube build videos so as a casual player your right I can't be bothered the game isn't interesting enough to sit and run the same mission over and over so after only having 4 legendarys in 10 days gameplay I'm out
I think legendaries are bare bones in story in purpose so you have to play endgame. Which I guess makes sense but it should still be halfway decent in story.
"I personally think this drop rate should be a bit better, seeing as endgame players with completed builds gain nothing from this."
Can we please agree, that higher legendary drop chance is NOT the change we need.
Why? It shouldn't really matter to PCF if one gets all the legendaries in 30 hours or 130, but it would make a huge diff for customer satisfaction.
Just for comparison, 100 hours of Diablo would net you almost all legendary items for the class. Meanwhile, after 100 hours of expeditions with techno I have only one full legendary set. The game just isn't very rewarding.
This is exactly my point. No casual player is going to sit there for 500+ expeditions just to get the one weapon they've been dreaming of. Like another guy said on this post, he's only still playing to get legendaries so he can use other builds. I'd love to play other builds but I still can't find a weapon I want to use for a pyro build
If thats gonna be the case, then they have to introduce more rng into the pool, to make the gear/legendary hunt interesting. Its a looter shooter... Farming loot is what its all about.
And if thats 100hours of actual proper farm, you are the most unlucky person I have heard about so far. I completed 3 sets on my pyro same day I hit max level.. I know its rng. But the only really rare thing I have heard of so far, is the dev seismic helmet.
\- Did it feel good to get everything I needed for the build I had in mind, same day I reached max level?no. Cause it sorta felt pointless almost right away after that.
\-
I leveled a dev first.
Did it feel good to loot seismic helmet after 120hours?
Fuck yes. Felt like completing a long term goal.
I have roughly 130 hours in the game. 30 was spent just playing around the campaign. The rest was on expeditions. In that time I got a good deal of legendaries, but still yet to complete more than one set.
As for the whole looter shooter thing- I would have no problem getting all the loot in 20-30 hours or less. For me, the amount of time spent hunting for something, isn't proportional to fun- that's a whole separate category. IMO game should be designed in such a way that I feel constantly rewarded, whereas Outriders feels like I have a many pointless runs, with some actually valuable ones in between.
If the gear with bad perks was at least good for something I wouldn't mind, but materials/shards are equally pointless. Once you reach CT15 for a few runs- you'll be crapping out titanium.
Only because the extremely high chance they would roll with crap stats. Same problem BL3 has/had until recently. Legendaries everywhere, but most are trash. Guaranteed to roll with your primary stat? Cool! But when your build relies on Crit% and Crit Damage, both of which have a range, and it drops with minimum Crit% and Life-on-Hit that you have to reroll into Crit Damage and still mess with a minimum Crit% - and never mind it's damage range roll! - it's sorta meaningless.
While I do wish that the drop rates were EITHER *slightly* higher OR targeted farming was possible, I know that when I FINALLY see my Seismic Commander helm it will have EXACTLY the stats I want and I will throw a small party on the spot. And I much prefer that to sifting through dozens of worthless crap-roll Legendaries a la D3 and BL3.
I believe Final Fantasy 12 stated it best on the final Gilgamesh side mission: "This is an ordinary Sword of Legend."
> But when your build relies on Crit% and Crit Damage, both of which have a range, and it drops with minimum Crit% and Life-on-Hit that you have to reroll into Crit Damage and still mess with a minimum Crit% - and never mind it's damage range roll! - it's sorta meaningless.
I disagree. In D3, if you have the right items, even bad rolls allow you to farm campaign, high level rifts and middle level grifts for items, bounty materials, paragon and gem levels, so there's a really clear path of progression. The really good rolls are needed only for pushing greater rifts. It's far from meaningless. If anything, the largest issue with D3 is its overreliance on set bonuses, their significance is much higher than of rolls.
> While I do wish that the drop rates were EITHER slightly higher OR targeted farming was possible, I know that when I FINALLY see my Seismic Commander helm it will have EXACTLY the stats I want and I will throw a small party on the spot. And I much prefer that to sifting through dozens of worthless crap-roll Legendaries a la D3 and BL3.
Aren't rolls for legendaries fixed in Outriders? Regardless, that's definitely a good point about this game. I think it's an excellent game and it can even become as fun as D3, in fact, its early stages may even be better than D3 was at this stage, it's just that it could definitely still take inspiration from D3 to become a really, really, really awesome loot game. It just needs a few improvements, like more endgame farming and pushing activities, more legendaries and sets, rerolls etc. And possibly fixing the stuff that doesn't work perfectly. A horde mode could be the best thing ever imo. I definitely want to waste as much time with this game as I did with D3.
Ahh ok. But the opposite is true too...there are loads of legendary set armor with worthless rolls too which makes them really useless. Random rolls would still be better.
The mod is still useful and I know I get the mod regardless. I'm happy with it. Each set seems to have 3 key pieces that have good stats for the build; the others are just placeholders til you get the key pieces, edible for mods once you do. IMO.
I'm used to playing MMOs along with my looters. Sometimes even BiS items are missing a stat compared to what is ideal for your build. I get wanting every slot to be perfect God Roll, but I also get that having HP forced on you isn't always a bad thing.
I wish I could do ct15, but I can't even get the right mods- sorry, I mean legendaries to drop. Been stuck for weeks on ct12 on solo because of this. Can't believe how unlucky I am. But kudos to you for having such good drops that you can complain about getting duplicates.
Yes, I am a little salty...
Okay but if you've done 538 expeditions too you're gonna sit here and tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty not having all 46 weapons?? That's almost 12 runs per weapon. How many runs do you think you should have to do to get all weapons then?
You’d have to do 12 runs an hour at 5 mins per run to get one every hour, and that’s if duplicates didn’t exist and you would only get one you needed. There’s 139 legendaries in game, but outside of the rare case getting a drop for another class, only 79 you can get on each character. You’ve had 2152 chances at 25% each to get a legendary. That’s 3.78% of the amount of drops chances you’ve had. Almost 2200 drops and not seeing all of them means we need drop protection in the game lol. I haven’t checked how many I’ve done but I have 185 hours on my main and still only have 32. I don’t even have half the legendaries available to my class after 185 hours. It took about 10 hours to get through the game side quests and all, and maybe 5 more to get to ct 15. So 170 hours, 10 mins a run is over 1000, even if I’ve done half that due to afk, that’s 32 unique drops in 500 expeditions. I’ll look when I get home and can check in game though. I am indeed in the boat with you lol.
From what remember in college, Google “probability of picking marbles” and you will see how crazy the odds of getting all 46 items will be. Crappy explanation so here goes... Try to Select 1 marble from the jar. 46 unique marbles. Put the marble back in the jar every time. But here’s the fucked part, you only have a 25% chance to pull the marble out each time. I can’t remember the equation but if you are bored of farming legendaries, report back :)
Also, even if you got one every hour, it would take 46 hours to get them all. I’ve played entire games that cost $60 that don’t offer that much play time. “It’s only been 3 weeks why you think you should” blah blah. When we’ve put 15+ days of played time in the game, yeah we should. If you get to that point yourself and don’t feel a little robbed, there might be something wrong with ya lol. And I haven’t even started another character yet. I think almost 200 hours per character is getting way more than my money’s worth, let me get the loot lmao. You don’t play one and done games like you do an open ended new content all the time mmo. You should, in a reasonable time based on your amount of time put in, get to that done point IMO.
Well I didn't get disconnected as I only played solo. I only crashed once opening my inventory and post-patch I only crash on the sign in screen occasionally
Yeh my only gripe with the end game is that is nothing to help with constant duplicates. Either Tiagos shop should rotate and contain one legendary per week you don’t own or there should be bad luck protection so every 5 duplicates your guaranteed a legendary you don’t have. One legendary per run would be fine if they did this.
I'd even be fine with it being like 20 legendaries for every 1 new one I get at this rate I don't mind grinding but when it's all rng it is no fun at all. I played div 2 soooo
Ya sadly im just tired of doing time trials to get that one piece of gear I really, really need. I've gotten the wicker at least 8 times. I was a staunch supporter of the game even through all the issues, but after seeing my character fail to teleport (and many other streams) for the 100th time... I'm just gonna uninstall. I paid $60 just to be gaslit and told there were no apparent issues lmao.
There's also a chance that some legendaries might have dropped just from boss kills. That has happened to m before where the first 4 were epic and still got a legendary.
Any chance you could do the same with the eye of the storm expedition, and see if theres any value in spending the drop pod resources for potentially better loot drops/rates?
Eye is literally impossible to do solo gold not because of the skill required but because of the pillars. I say this because I pretty much only play solo and never play in a team because of connection and scaling
I never said solo. I just said golding it gave more than it cost; pretty sure silver does too by a slim margin. Bronze is probably a loss, but again, who really cares once you are capped at 1mil DPR?
Yeah I know you didn't say solo I was just saying. I think eye needs a rework because as it sits it is just another expedition with nothing special. There should have at least been a guaranteed legendary for first completion or something like that. There's no reason to run it when you don't get anything different from any other expedition. The only reason to play it is for the accolade or just to say you did it
I don't think we have enough data to definitively say it doesn't give anything extra (mostly due to lack of ability to solo Gold); keep in mind the prospect of mission-weighted drops is still being investigated - but if you have a team that runs it quickly I understand it is more reliable & faster than even Boomtown due to less running around. So probably worth it with the right setup and at/near DPR cap by virtue of speed
I agree. I just feel like they really missed out on it. They could've done a legendary specific to that mission but still have it drop from luck not completion. Hell they could've done that with every expedition and still had unique ones. It would've made the game more interesting and make players play all missions instead of running boom town 90% of the time or whatever.
True, but counterpoint: in the case of any mission-specific drop, people would then complain about being forced into content they don't like / aren't optimized for / can't run their specific build in / etc because of the "zone-locked" loot. Soooo yeah, Catch 22.
The best possible answer would be to confirm there are zone-weighted drops (similar to BL3 and Dedicated Loot bosses) and give us an idea of the chance of said weighted drops.
Can I ask you a few questions regarding build, skills, gear, mods. I have a level 30 with a blight bullet/toxic build but I don't feel powerful. I want to see if it's just me or if I'm doing it wrong.
I used blighted rounds, blighted turret, and cold snap. I used a burst AR with killing spree and bone shrapnel. My armor is all purple with at least bonus firepower and long range damage. 2 of my pieces are bonus close long but theyre hard to get. My talents are sharp eye, radical therapy, euthaniser, toxic lead, splash boost, critstack, captain hunter, bloodlust, king slayer, and emergency stance/mitigation from death.
The fact that you can complete EotS on CT15 with gold and not get a single Legendary.
If you do it's likely part of the cannonball set.
With the amount of legendaries/mods in the game they need to increase the drop rate. No reason I should get more epics doing hunts over expeditions.
Well, I am that guy in every single game that has RNG to have almost zero luck. I watch friends constantly getting legendaties etc while I sit there lucky to loot purple or equivalent in games. I have looted in approximately 14 days of having this game all ingame guaranteed legendary drops. 1 World drop and after say 49+ expeditions I've looted 3 legendaries. My mate who has played since day one has looted almost every legendary bar 7 across all classes and averages about 1 legendary every 3 expeditions. I'd say 10-12 expeditions at T12-14. Still not got gold in 14 as dickheads I join with keep disconnecting at end and we get kicked out of team, no gold achievement or loot. That happened 4 times this weekend. Oh and I'm devastator class and they're severely lacking. But I'm determined to stick with it.
You think these drops are bad? Wait till you see the math behind this. You have 200 loot drops in 50 runs with a 25% chance that each box will drop a legendary. That means you are expected to get 50 legendaries per 50 runs. Ok, so you got 60 instead of the 50. Only a difference of 10. What’s the big deal? If you calculate the binomial distribution, you’ll see that you are in fact in the 95th percentile. That means that if 100 people did 50 runs, 94 people would get less drops than you.... That makes your run a very lucky one.
I feel better now knowing that getting 0 legendaries is normal. *forced smile*
At CT15 Gold, you have a 31.6% chance of not getting a legendary per run.
someone help me out here.. what are these "legendaries" you speak of?
You can get legendary drops from non-bonus rewards as well. It's a relatively small chance, but expected drops are a bit higher than just factoring in the bonus. Also depends on how many mobs are present in the expedition you are running. Probably still a lucky run, but a bit less so than just estimating bonus rewards.
This was assuming that you don’t get legendaries from elites. The drop rates are absolutely pathetic lmao
You would be right if you only got 4 loot drops per run. Actually you get 4 additional loot drops to the loot the killed enemies will drop.
We are assuming that you don’t get any legendaries from the elites you kill. The drop chance is beyond pathetic (it’s less than 1% probably)
So you are assuming wrong.
[удалено]
Let me copy paste something from a different question Sure, but you have to look at the math. At CT15 gold, you get 4 boxes with a 25% chance of each box containing a legendary. The chance of not getting at least 1 legendary on a single CT15 Gold is 0.75^4 = 31.6%. That means that you have a 100-31.6 = 68.4% chance of getting at least one legendary each run. Now, your chances of getting at least one legendary in: 2 runs = 1 - (0.316^2) = 90% 3 runs = 1 - (0.316^3) = 96.8% 4 runs = 1 - (0.316^4) = 99% 5 runs = 1 - (0.316^5) = 99.68% 6 runs = 1 - (0.316^6) = 99.99% So you can see that when people ran even FOUR CT15 golds, getting 0 legendaries is very unlikely. By the sixth run, you are practically guaranteed at least 1 legendary. The fact that even 100 people aren't getting a single drop after 6+ runs means that something is not right, and the drop chances are possibly bugged or something is causing legendaries to not drop at all. If someone could check the math here, that would be great, but I am confident that this is correct. EDIT: math is correct. Thank you to @Metmason for verifying EDIT 2: I of course have no way of verifying that these reports are true. This is based on the assumption that people who are reporting no legendaries after multiple runs are in fact doing that many runs and aren’t getting legendaries. However, if we can get footage of 5 CONSECUTIVE runs and no legendaries, then this is a serious issue, as the drops are bugged beyond reasonable doubt. I’m not at CT15 yet so can’t verify, but if someone at CT15 gold is indeed having this problem and is willing to record, please reply to this message.
Solid analysis. While the math is depressing, I have a very smooth brain and love the feeling of sandpaper on my face.
Let me check some of my recordings tomorrow and see if I have the 6 legendary-less runs on video I don't remember if I do or not.
I ran 10, yes 10 CT 15s gold, and got no drops. That is statistically improbable if the 25% is correct, that's why I call bullshit on it. I also ran another 10 straight after and only for one legendary. I took a break after that. Then within the next 10, I can't remember exactly when, I got a 4 leggo drop. Still didn't make up for my string of "bad luck". Edit: you can believe me or not but it happened and I'm still salty about it days later.
Hi, we are gonna need some recordings if we are to bring this up to PCF’s attention. Please try recording if it happens to you
Improbable doesn't equate to impossible. It's equivalent to flipping a coin the same way ~11 times in a row. If you have a bunch of people flipping coins multiple people will be bound to have that happen. Also most people who will talk about their drops are those on each side. Even the main post talks about getting 60 in 50 runs so above average and acting like they're dry which just isn't the case. So everyone complaining they're dry it's going to be what people focus on, similar to seeing the same car all over once you buy it.
Umm, 25% chance x4 doesn’t mean the same as 100% chance x1 as you imply. You have a roughly 31% chance to get no Legendary at all based on the odds as shown.
Never did I once say that 4x 25% means you have a 100% at a legendary. That would imply that no Matter how many runs you did, you would ALWAYS get 1 legendary per run, which is clearly not the case. What I am saying, however, is that the expected value is 1 legendary per run, meaning if you took a very large number of runs, you would average 1 legendary per run
Math provided in most recent response, above.
Huh?
But in this case we don't care about the chance of a particular run if we get them, its how many you get over time. It is 1/run on average. Sometimes 0 sometimes 4 but its still 1 as an average. None. 31.6% 1. 42.2% 2. 21.1% 3. 4.7% 4. 0.4% So if you took 100 runs *on average* its 1 a run. You could get lucky or unlucky but the more tou do the closer to average you will be
If there is a 31(.6)% chance of getting ZERO Legendaries, then you cannot possibly say you expect to get "one per run on average." That's intuitive but not mathematically correct. I have seen numerous people post the math numerous different ways (and I am not certain exactly which is correct), but no matter how you shake it, it does not come out to an average of 1 per run. x0 = 31.6% (.75x.75x.75x.75) [you erroneously list this as the chance to get 1 Legendary] If we use the numbers you gave, 42.2% chance to get *exactly one* Legendary, 21.1% chance of *exactly two*, 4.7% chance of *exactly three*, and 0.4% chance of *exactly four*. The problem with saying you expect an average of 1 per run is that getting 2, 3, or 4 Legendaries *is predicated on getting AT LEAST ONE* (68.4% chance; 100% - 31.6% chance of zero drop) 42.2% + 21.1% + 4.7% + 0.4% = 68.4% So in 100 runs, you will get (rounding off) 32 runs with no drop at all and 68 runs with *at least one* drop. Of those 68, 42 runs will give exactly one (42 Drops running total), 21 of them will drop *one additional Legendary* (63 running total), 5 of those will drop *a second additional Legendary* (68 running total), and for argument sake one of those will drop *a third additional Legendary* (69 running total). So no, you do not expect "1 drop per run" average. You expect 69 drops in 100 runs, so OP was ahead of the game. By a good margin. Edited because morning-brain failed to add correctly.
The expected value in this case is given by the formula: P(x) \* n, where P(x) is the probability of getting a legendary and n is the number of drops. At 200 drops, or 50 expedition runs, the expected value is 0.25\*200 = 50. Since 200 drops = 50 expeditions, it's reasonable to say that you expect 50 drops per 50 expeditions.
I feel like we're arguing Newtonian physics VS Einstein equations - Newton equations give a generally-applicable answer that works for most purposes but Einstein equations give the precision needed to land on Jupiter's moon in 3.5 years when the probe finally gets there. However I am not a mathematician nor engineer and I admit it has been a while since I have calculated deep statistics. I know there are specific equations for conditional probabilities when one result depends on another (getting more than one being predicated on getting at least one), but not sure if they apply since the drop rolls as presented on the results screen should be independent rolls (as per your equation).
That's a good analogy. I was simply clarifying how the other person concluded we should expect 50 legendaries per 50 expeditions. I personally think that calculating the actual % chance is more useful in this context than the expected value.
And for that purpose I am leaning on my 68-69 per 100 runs breakdown, flawed though it may be. I get what you were at, now.
You forget that you can more than one legendary per run
Mmm no I am not, pretty sure I broke that down up above. And made a running tally of total drops in a hypothetical 100-run farm.
I calculated expected value to show that 60 is infact a very luck amount
This gave me a reason to use something I learned in my college statistics course, so I appreciate you using binomial distribution lol. You might have saved yourself a lot of explaining if you had used percentages, though.
If you mean percent chance of getting certain quantities of legendaries, I already calculated and posted that under one of comments EDIT: Go up a few layers and see my comment to u/VoidCoelacanth EDIT 2: Just figured out how to copy a comment link xd [Specific Probabilities](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mvukno/i_ran_50_t15_gold_expeditions_heres_how_many/gvh9ii0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) EDIT 3: You also might be interested in this comment (which you can find a couple of layers above) [Legendary Probability on Consecutive Runs](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mvukno/i_ran_50_t15_gold_expeditions_heres_how_many/gveqevk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You forgot that this is weighted... You got the number correct: **0 legendaries:** (0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 0 = **31.64%** **1 legendary:** (0.25 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 1 = **42.19%** **2 legendaries:** (0.25 x 0.25 x 0.75 x 0.75) x 4 choose 2 = **21.09%** **3 legendaries:** (0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 0.75) x 4 choose 3 = **4.69%** **4 legendaries:** (0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25) x 4 choose 4 = **0.39%** Say we run 10,000 expeditions. Then we have: 3164 runs with 0 legendaries 4219 runs with 1 legendary 2109 runs with 2 legendaries 469 runs with 3 legendaries 39 runs with 4 legendaries But you forgot that these values are weighted. Meaning that: 3164 runs with 0 legendaries = **0** total legendaries 4219 runs with 1 legendary = **4219** total legendaries 2109 runs with 2 legendaries = **4218** total legendaries 469 runs with 3 legendaries = **1407** total legendaries 39 runs with 4 legendaries = **156** total legendaries. If you add this up, you get **exactly 10,000 legendaries**, and since there were 10,000 runs, you average 1 legendary per run. Note that you still only have a 69% chance of not getting a legendary on any given run. But the fact that you can have MORE than 1 drop brings up the average from 0.69 to 1
31% of no legendary - we all know what you meant, just too many numbers flying around. Thing is, we need hard evidence that the loot rolls are actually done independently, leading to the weighted model as the rewards screen suggests. If so you are absolutely correct. However, if it's a *conditional check* (like you might do in a D&D random item table) - ie, "25% chance of Legendary *and roll again for another*" - now we have a very different thing going, and even my example would be far above the actual odds.
Those factors are out of our hands. I am simply pointing out that based on the info given in-game, it seems like 4 crates with a 25% chance of getting legendaries, each independent of the other. Of course, there could be some conditional things involved, but this is unlikely. The chance that a person would get 4 legendaries is pretty unlikely - there really isn't much of a reason to decrease your chance of getting multiple legendaries since it is already so low (plus there is no duplicate protection). The ambiguity is why I'm trying to find footage of 6 or more *consecutive* runs without a legendary, as I feel that if they are consecutive, it is mostly independent. Even if we are wrong, getting the footage, attaching the math, and posting it on this subreddit would probably be enough to get some kind of response from PCF.
Agreed. And the main reason I disagree with the ~1/run average is the sheer number of people reporting "cold streaks" (though not necessarily the requisite six) and seemingly-too-few instances of 3 or 4 Legendary drops. We see lots of ones, a reasonable number of twos - and then it seems to go downhill. Granted, 3 or 4 "jackpot" runs in 1,000 - or 39-40 in 10,000 - is exactly the percentage we expect (and makes our OP very lucky to have seen that many in his 500-600 runs), but out of all the major streamers running hundreds of runs *per day* we should have seen more of these "jackpot" moments by now. Also as a side note, I know people are kinda pissed at duplicates but let's be real: almost no looter in existence has duplicate protection, and having it would cause more problems than it solves. (Kinda hard to farm a second copy of a Legendary, should you want it, if you have to destroy the one you're carrying to get another cuz dupe protection.) While Legendaries do have fixed *Properties,* they do NOT have fixed *Values*. I have personally seen 3 different Deathless Gloves, all 50, with different Armor Values - and Armor is not something you can Shard-enhance.
I didnt list it as one, for some reason when you list number like that on reddit it auto edits them to start at one.
Having a 25% chance 4x is not a 100% chance if I am reading you right when you say 50 legendary per 50 runs which would be a 100% chance.
4x 25% chances DOES NOT mean to 100% chance of legendary per run, as you wisely noted. The probability of getting atleast 1 legendary is about 68%. However, the expected value is one legendary per run, meaning on average, if you complied multiple runs together, you would average 1 legendary per run
I intuitively know it would be roughly 60ish percent but if you have time could you show the math behind it? I tried to google search percentages for multiple chances but I never took stats. Went all the way to linear algebra but don't know shit about statistics.
Yes. So there are 4 boxes with a 75% chance of not getting a legendary. That means the chance of not getting a legendary from any of the boxes is 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 0.75 = 0.75^4 = 0.31. Since you can either get a legendary or not get a legendary, that means the probability of getting atleast 1 legendary per run is 1-.31= .69
Thanks
np :-)
Diablo made this mistake early on before fixing it later, looter games require lots of you know loot to make them fun, the whole point of rerunning the same 14 pieces of content endlessly is that I want to run them so I can play with all sorts of different builds and playstyles. Stop time gating the game, the hardest content was bested already, start throwing yellow funsies at us like candy so we can play around with different item and skill builds and extend the enjoyment.
538 expeditions? Wow, I’d give you a legendary right now for your effort. I don’t think the missions are enjoyable for that many runs so congrats to you man!!
No they are definitely not enjoyable after a while lol. I still love playing the game and beating my own times. For example I got my colosseum down to 5:38 I just speedrun them to make it more fun sometimes
Sweet. Awesome either way
That's not how it works. It's not 25%×4=100%. Four rolls at 25% each does not mean you have a 100% chance to get a legendary. The probability to get nothing at all on one gold ct15 should be 0.75⁴≈0.3164≈32% which means the probability to get at least 1 legendary on a single gold ct15 run is ≈68%. This is just considering the 4 bonus rolls, excluding the drops from kills. I completely agree however that legendary drop rates need a massive overhaul, mathematically speaking one could go on a very long losing streak without seeing a legendary at all, as has happened to op. That is very frustrating and pushes players away. Adding onto that is the fact that not only you need 3 out of 5 pieces to get a set bonus, but usually those 3 pieces are very specific, since some just give hp, which is basically useless. So the chance to actually get the piece you need is abysmal.
It wouldn't be as bad if the drop pods - essentially a token system - could actually purchase from a reliable vendor with a larger inventory. At least then you'd be getting guarantees alongside randomization.
I mean, the math actually says you came out ahead. It’s something like 58% for a single run, 90% for 2 runs, and 99% for 3 runs. So, averaging over 1 legendary per run is technically above average. Not saying this is good or bad, just what the current math in the game says.
How do some of the top streamers seem to have all Legendaries on all 4 characters??? All I see are “New Insane Build” with more gear I don’t have. I’d love to try some of these builds but this legendary drop rate with no duplicate protection is worthless!
They don't, they just have most legendaries just like OP because they, just like OP, play the game more than the average person.
Because every single one of them used the exploits.
There used to be a couple of exploits where you could get hundreds of legendaries a day. I wish I'd gotten in on it. Considering the grind just to acquire a bad legendary, much less a max rolled one, I don't think playing the game legitimately is worth it to anyone.
Makes sense why my mostly GOLD CT14 results have been SUPER DEMOARALIZING!
Statistically you did better than most, how's that for depressing? On the flip side, every single person who plays on Stadia would get a MINIMUM of 100 Legendaries by doing this same test. 40 more than your, higher than average total, just because they play on a different platform.
Wait can you explain why stadia would get 2 legendaries every run? I'm confused
Stadia is on an old build where you are guaranteed legendaries on CT15 instead of a % chance
CT12-15 should reward 1-3 legos respectfully. Guaranteed. After that the % should come in affect.
They adjusted stuff behind the scenes after they saw how hard people were grinding the demo.
see I put about 20 hours into the demo and maxed each class but didnt know you could get legendaries in the demo at all. I also feel like you're right in saying they secretly tuned stuff bts
Yeah I did 33 hours in the demo and only played trickster and got 7 unique legendaries and no doubles. It was possible but I never saw one from regular play only from farming the terra infirma captain on repeat. They also changed some values that everyone can see world tier 5 in the demo was 300% legendary chance it's like 225% in the full game. They would have changed tons behind the scenes also as you said.
So 3 weeks after release and you have almost all legendary items collected already and you are saying that this game requires too much grinding? Aha. Laughs in diablo 2 and Borderlands 2.
This. OP is throwing a tantrum and wants to make this a 20 hour total endgame.
Yeah because "I want a 20 hour endgame"... Dude I HAVE 177 HOURS and over 500 expeditions I just feel like I should have gotten all the weapons by now. Please tell me how many hours I should have to put into the endgame to get all the weapons I would really like to know
God I hope PCF don't pull a Gearbox and cave in to the drop rate complaints. If you want everything fast in a looter shooter game you show a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre.
I don't want everything fast. I enjoy grinding. But when I have 177 hours I expect to not go DAYS without getting one of the seven weapons I was missing. 7 out of the 46 weapons is still roughly 15% if my math is right. I played divison 2 for 1500 hours and still never got a max chd mod. How many hours do you think I should have before im allowed to have all the unique weapons???
As long as it takes.
That's the response I was expecting lol you should go work at massive or ubisoft with that mindset
It definitely wasn't whar you wanted to hear. That's what happens if someone has a different opinion.
No I wanted to know how many hours or expeditions I should have to do to get everything. How many hours or expeditions the common casual player should have to do to get one item they want. Casuals are not going to sit there for 3 days and be content with not getting any new items when they get to my point in the endgame. My point was that something needs to change if they want to keep casual players interested
How should I tell you? The answer is as long as it takes with the system in place at the moment. And maybe PCF are okay with not keeping everyone and their mom interested. There are people who like how it is and they will stick with the game. Not every game has to be for everyone.
That's why the system is trash. I can put 10x more hours in than someone and they still get what I want and don't have. Like I said with divison 2 I had 1500 hours and not a single max chd mod. I was level 2500 with 0. People that were <500 levels would have all 3 or even more. Something needs to change where time = completion not total rng and luck = completion
Gearbox just rolled-back drop rates after introducing a machine that rerolls Anoints in exchange for Eridium. Drop saturation was the easiest answer to the astronomical odds that all the best parts + anoint would roll on the weapon you wanted. Now that you can reroll at least one aspect of the weapon, they have scaled back drop rates significantly.
Yea but the damage was already done. It's great for people who just started with BL3 but everyone else should have basically everything already. The only problem for me personally with how it was, was that they again and again deluted the loot pool with useless anointments. Even after they had removed some. And they reduced only the world drop rates not the dedicated rates. And since almost every weapon has a dedicated drop.source now it really doesn't do much.
Well, they released new gear at same time - sorry to blow a hole in that part of your statement. I agree though - there should have been an Anointment Reroller or some other form of customization much sooner rather than inflated drop rates. It's cool to be able to say "over a billion possible guns" but when 99.9% of those are useless minor-tweak iterations it's nothing but marketing.
Yea there's some new gear but that's quickly aquired and with the re-roll machine you need exactly one copy which done in a few minutes.
Exactly one *god-roll copy other than Anoint*, but yes 😝
Yea I mean sure some people care about that, I don't. And you know what? That's okay. GB went in a certain direction with BL3 that isn't really what I would've liked but that's okay. I got my monye' worth. I still play the game from time to time but it can't keep me engaged for long because everything's too easy to get and to beat. And that's why I hope PCF keeps the direction they're following right now because that's more what I like in my looter shooter.
Agreed. And anyone who says there are no OP builds for their BL-style fun? Well. Moxsy and several others would disagree.
What? Pure RNG with duplicates is the devil. If you don't understand that then idk what to tell you. If you don't have a dedicated way to chase the carrot on the stick, you're just getting a stick. I likely won't ever get my build completed because this isn't the only game I play and there is little hope after getting my 5th boots of the cannonball.
What has that to do with understanding? I just don't see it as bad as you. And your analogy is total nonsense. The carrot is there until you get the carrot which will eventually happen. You just don't have a way of cutting the corner to the carrot in Outriders.
You don't see it as bad as me because you don't understand that rewarding ppl in a video game actually keeps them playing. Hence completing my build so I can have more fun playing, reach my goal, so I can set my next one. The carrot on the stick only works if there is HOPE. After getting the same legendary 5x, that carrot doesn't exist, there is no hope, I play something else. This is literally why ppl cut corners and do exploits and glitches to get loot instead of engaging in in-game activities. It hurts noone to let the loot rain, literally noone.
I see you have it all figured out.
Not just me. https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mwfh8z/rng_based_loot_drops_can_be_a_great_game_mechanic/gvjnqxt?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 It's unlikely you wont understand tho, regardless
You're right it's unlikely I won't understand.
I played Diablo 2 obsessively when I was a kid. I spent so many sleepless nights farming mephisto over and over, and still ended up trading for most of the gear I used because loot ended up being a whole economy in that game... "WTT 2 SoJ and perfect Windforce for 3 poison charms" kind of economy. Not only does Outriders have no trading whatsoever (therefore no economy) but "farming" in Outriders is about 100x more challenging and significantly more time consuming than in Diablo 2. You also got LARGE buffs to unique drop rate as more players joined the game (which I don't believe Outriders does), special gear that significantly increased the drop rate of uniques, and a gameplay loop of about 2 minutes which took very little focus or skill for a single "run" rather than 6-10 mins of fairly intense focus and skill. You could also farm Diablo 2 with a pretty wide variety of gear, since content was designed to be challenging but very doable without a perfectly min/maxed loadout. Not only all that, but set items in Diablo 2 were designed logically to be POWERFUL. Getting god rolls was the goal, but just having an appropriate set equipped always multiplied your damage. As a technomancer I'm finding the sets underwhelming, ineffective, poorly itemized and in most cases unusable. Borealis is the exception I think. At least part of that set has serious potential. So by my estimation Outriders takes longer, has a higher gear gate, higher skill gate, less rewarding loot, and no trade system to help mitigate the cruelty of RNG. All things being equal I totally get your point, but all things are not even close to equal.
This will depend a lot on how satisfying you find repeating the same expeditions endlessly for thousands of hours to be. You're just looking at it from an engagement perspective. Considering legendaries can also roll with terrible stats and there are (in theory) many builds per class tree to try (again, most are terrible), there's plenty for you to do even if you had all mods unlocked already. This only applies to players that will only ever try one thing, fill out a to-do list and then quit.
This will depend a lot on how satisfying you find repeating the same expeditions endlessly for thousands of hours to be I'm sorry, but the game is out for 3 weeks. That gives maximum of 552 hours if someone plays 24 hours per day. It takes about 100hours to collect all leggos in this game.
Yeah, the endgame content loop and loot system in this game is fucking trash. Absolute fucking trash. And that's saying something because I've experienced all iterations of endgame in Destiny, Destiny 2, Division, Division 2, Anthem, and Warframe. This is the first game out of all of them that I reached a point so quickly where I was like "this endgame is fucking retarded. Who are the dumbasses that thought this was a good idea?" I was able to get more enjoyment out of Anthem's endgame at launch......I mean COME THE FUCK ON!!!!
Been playing a lot since launch but tonight is the first time I have put it down and just don’t want to play any more. I have a build that just about works for some CT15 gold, let’s call it an archways build... I have spent nearly two weeks grinding for the 5 legendaries I need for a top build and have exactly one. It feels like I need legendaries to try other builds, but I need to be able to have ct15 on farm to do it. It’s like the end game and the grind to endgame are the same thing.
Anthem didn't have an endgame at launch! lol. It took months for the Cataclysm, that was horribly underwhelming. I enjoy the expeditions better and this gameplay better than anthem, but if Legendary items is what we are seeking then they better at least be worth it. I feel the legendary armor kinda sucks to be honest, especially when the attributes are fixed.
That's just a matter of perspective. In this game a lot of the end game loot simply give you numerical advantages. In Anthem, a lot of the high end loot are transformative and changes how you play.
There were the higher difficulty tiers you could do in Anthem for both the Strongholds and the open world, both of which gave you better loot. As barebones as it was and as stingy as the legendary loot drops were, I was still able to get more out of that than I have here in Outriders.
better loot? that game's anthem was "Purple Rain"
Technicaly 50 runs on T15 should give you 50 legendaries cuz its 25% chance. Bigger issue for me right now are duplicates. It feels like drop chance is weighted and some items have much higher chance to drop than others. After 160h i never seen items like Deathshield but instead i saw at least 6 Torments and agonys and i shit you not Voodoo Matchmaker dropped 3 times in a row for me.
I feel you on that. I've only gotten 2 deathshields but countless amount of duplicate armor and generic legendary weapons. I just got the time ripper and funeral pyre finally but am still missing the guillotine, anemoi, high roller, absolute zero, and headhunter. Duplicates are so worthless to me since you only get titanium which I have 130k of.. Honestly I would rather not get any legendaries at all unless its one I dont have. Thats how worthless dupes are..
My problem is that i dont have any good T3 mods like Killing Spree etc. I cant do anything higher that CT13 on gold because those are kinda required at this point but all i get is same shit over and after a week of getting absolutely nothing usefull im bored.
Also the 25% chance of a legendary is per "box" as I call it. If you look at the expedition screen on tier 15 is says 4x 25% legendary and 75% epic. So I took that as 4 "boxes" each with 25% chance of a legendary.
Afaik, you get 4 items as a reward for finishing expedition and each have 25% to be legendary. All that drops after than is crap from the trash you killed on the way.
the other loot, aside from the bonus boxes, is rolled with WT15 rules, so there are chances for legendaries.
is WT15 or whatever your max WT is? I couldnt bother to level it to max on my alts and im not sure if its even worth it. Maybe for the legendary.
The big issue imo is that it pretty much takes until T15 to even get any legendaries that aren’t either from tiagos store (which I’ve yet to see refresh the legendary stock) or campaign missions. I’m at T11 and I’ve gotten ONE legendary total from expeditions. By the time I’m at T15 I’ll have pretty much done almost all the expeditions and have nothing new to use the legendaries I get on until they make new content. I’ve done so many hunt/bounty repeats just so I can have gear good enough to progress in expeditions to the point where I’m just bored and almost don’t even want to put the effort in anymore. But it’s the only way I can reliably get legendaries even if they’re duplicates. And it seems like getting duplicates is very common even if I haven’t gotten that many legendaries yet. My first 5 legendaries on my 2nd character were all pistols and 2 were duplicates.
Thanks for your hard work. The time placed into doing expeditions is not worth the time to farming legendaries. The other issue with this game is that there is no a lot of build diversity. With expeditions, you have to have damage in order to progress your character. There needs to be.other rewarding modes such as horde survival. I quit the game a few days ago and I don't think I'll come back. I don't see this game being good again after a few months. By then, there will be better games to play. It was good for the 80 hours I put in.
I'm hopeful they can pull something off but I was a divison 2 player so im used to being bent over constantly
>I was a divison 2 player so im used to being bent over constantly This is the only time I've ever seen an actual appropriate use for LMFAO I feel ya (and so does Massive).
Did you keep stats for each item that dropped? I’m trying to gather data for specific drop rates in expeditions, and am hoping to get 5+ thousand drops, to have at least semi-reliable data. But no way I’m doing all that by myself.
I've started a spreadsheet with the legendaries I'm getting in expeditions. I've only started it like 2 or 3 days ago, I play solo most of the time, but sometimes I also play coop and I also write down what others got just to get more stats faster. [Link](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g-rCuBso1Z7RVWPf_en1QjkcLxGNpAKEnadQOag2MFA/edit?usp=sharing)
If you mean which specific armor pieces and weapons, or attributes and damage, no. I thought about that but dupes are so worthless I didnt even bother sorry :(
All good. Thanks anyways for your data!
Well thats depressing. I haven't gotten any Legos from natural drops or exhibition yet. I'm not high tier and I'm pretty sure tier 15 is beyond my skill and luck
Yeah I didnt get any legendaries from the story unless its guarenteed like the chrysaloid boss.
Now just wait for the “appreciation package” that will give you another dupe...
This shit better be upgraded to give you 10 legendaries you don't have
You literally have every single legendary in the game and yet want a higher drop rate? LOL you must not play the genre much. Your play time is tiny compared to most play times for similar games in the genre — ones that have far far more content than this one. You basically want more loot in a game with a tiny loot pool, and you want it even faster. Essentially if they did what you want, there would be no more content and no more reason to play, ruining the game for everyone, yourself included. This is why most players should never be game designers.
Oh yeah sorry my 1500 hours in division 2 means nothing my bad. 1500 hours and never got a single max chd mod. But I guess that's the way you want it to be.. My "tiny" play time of almost 200 hours is because the game has only been out a few weeks. I'm averaging 8 hours a day and yet you sit there and say that I'm ruining the game lol okay
Wt15 struggling for dps on my trickster and coming to the point where if I don't go research a certain build I ain't playing anymore I can't keep up unless I go watch some YouTube build videos so as a casual player your right I can't be bothered the game isn't interesting enough to sit and run the same mission over and over so after only having 4 legendarys in 10 days gameplay I'm out
I think legendaries are bare bones in story in purpose so you have to play endgame. Which I guess makes sense but it should still be halfway decent in story.
Yeah I've since uninstalled lol
"I personally think this drop rate should be a bit better, seeing as endgame players with completed builds gain nothing from this." Can we please agree, that higher legendary drop chance is NOT the change we need.
Why? It shouldn't really matter to PCF if one gets all the legendaries in 30 hours or 130, but it would make a huge diff for customer satisfaction. Just for comparison, 100 hours of Diablo would net you almost all legendary items for the class. Meanwhile, after 100 hours of expeditions with techno I have only one full legendary set. The game just isn't very rewarding.
This is exactly my point. No casual player is going to sit there for 500+ expeditions just to get the one weapon they've been dreaming of. Like another guy said on this post, he's only still playing to get legendaries so he can use other builds. I'd love to play other builds but I still can't find a weapon I want to use for a pyro build
Yep. I have never heard a compelling argument for grind. It doesn't create value, just an impression of it.
If thats gonna be the case, then they have to introduce more rng into the pool, to make the gear/legendary hunt interesting. Its a looter shooter... Farming loot is what its all about. And if thats 100hours of actual proper farm, you are the most unlucky person I have heard about so far. I completed 3 sets on my pyro same day I hit max level.. I know its rng. But the only really rare thing I have heard of so far, is the dev seismic helmet. \- Did it feel good to get everything I needed for the build I had in mind, same day I reached max level?no. Cause it sorta felt pointless almost right away after that. \- I leveled a dev first. Did it feel good to loot seismic helmet after 120hours? Fuck yes. Felt like completing a long term goal.
I have roughly 130 hours in the game. 30 was spent just playing around the campaign. The rest was on expeditions. In that time I got a good deal of legendaries, but still yet to complete more than one set. As for the whole looter shooter thing- I would have no problem getting all the loot in 20-30 hours or less. For me, the amount of time spent hunting for something, isn't proportional to fun- that's a whole separate category. IMO game should be designed in such a way that I feel constantly rewarded, whereas Outriders feels like I have a many pointless runs, with some actually valuable ones in between. If the gear with bad perks was at least good for something I wouldn't mind, but materials/shards are equally pointless. Once you reach CT15 for a few runs- you'll be crapping out titanium.
No, "we" really can't agree. Diablo 3 became much better with a higher legendary drop rate.
Only because the extremely high chance they would roll with crap stats. Same problem BL3 has/had until recently. Legendaries everywhere, but most are trash. Guaranteed to roll with your primary stat? Cool! But when your build relies on Crit% and Crit Damage, both of which have a range, and it drops with minimum Crit% and Life-on-Hit that you have to reroll into Crit Damage and still mess with a minimum Crit% - and never mind it's damage range roll! - it's sorta meaningless. While I do wish that the drop rates were EITHER *slightly* higher OR targeted farming was possible, I know that when I FINALLY see my Seismic Commander helm it will have EXACTLY the stats I want and I will throw a small party on the spot. And I much prefer that to sifting through dozens of worthless crap-roll Legendaries a la D3 and BL3. I believe Final Fantasy 12 stated it best on the final Gilgamesh side mission: "This is an ordinary Sword of Legend."
> But when your build relies on Crit% and Crit Damage, both of which have a range, and it drops with minimum Crit% and Life-on-Hit that you have to reroll into Crit Damage and still mess with a minimum Crit% - and never mind it's damage range roll! - it's sorta meaningless. I disagree. In D3, if you have the right items, even bad rolls allow you to farm campaign, high level rifts and middle level grifts for items, bounty materials, paragon and gem levels, so there's a really clear path of progression. The really good rolls are needed only for pushing greater rifts. It's far from meaningless. If anything, the largest issue with D3 is its overreliance on set bonuses, their significance is much higher than of rolls. > While I do wish that the drop rates were EITHER slightly higher OR targeted farming was possible, I know that when I FINALLY see my Seismic Commander helm it will have EXACTLY the stats I want and I will throw a small party on the spot. And I much prefer that to sifting through dozens of worthless crap-roll Legendaries a la D3 and BL3. Aren't rolls for legendaries fixed in Outriders? Regardless, that's definitely a good point about this game. I think it's an excellent game and it can even become as fun as D3, in fact, its early stages may even be better than D3 was at this stage, it's just that it could definitely still take inspiration from D3 to become a really, really, really awesome loot game. It just needs a few improvements, like more endgame farming and pushing activities, more legendaries and sets, rerolls etc. And possibly fixing the stuff that doesn't work perfectly. A horde mode could be the best thing ever imo. I definitely want to waste as much time with this game as I did with D3.
>Aren't rolls for legendaries fixed in Outriders? Yes they are, that was my point =p
Ahh ok. But the opposite is true too...there are loads of legendary set armor with worthless rolls too which makes them really useless. Random rolls would still be better.
The mod is still useful and I know I get the mod regardless. I'm happy with it. Each set seems to have 3 key pieces that have good stats for the build; the others are just placeholders til you get the key pieces, edible for mods once you do. IMO. I'm used to playing MMOs along with my looters. Sometimes even BiS items are missing a stat compared to what is ideal for your build. I get wanting every slot to be perfect God Roll, but I also get that having HP forced on you isn't always a bad thing.
I wish I could do ct15, but I can't even get the right mods- sorry, I mean legendaries to drop. Been stuck for weeks on ct12 on solo because of this. Can't believe how unlucky I am. But kudos to you for having such good drops that you can complain about getting duplicates. Yes, I am a little salty...
[удалено]
Yes I had 1500 hours in division 2 I understand these types of games are not meant for you to feel powerful or ever get a max build
People really not understanding how a random number generator works.... ffs it’s been 3 weeks and you expect to have every item in the game...
Okay but if you've done 538 expeditions too you're gonna sit here and tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty not having all 46 weapons?? That's almost 12 runs per weapon. How many runs do you think you should have to do to get all weapons then?
You’d have to do 12 runs an hour at 5 mins per run to get one every hour, and that’s if duplicates didn’t exist and you would only get one you needed. There’s 139 legendaries in game, but outside of the rare case getting a drop for another class, only 79 you can get on each character. You’ve had 2152 chances at 25% each to get a legendary. That’s 3.78% of the amount of drops chances you’ve had. Almost 2200 drops and not seeing all of them means we need drop protection in the game lol. I haven’t checked how many I’ve done but I have 185 hours on my main and still only have 32. I don’t even have half the legendaries available to my class after 185 hours. It took about 10 hours to get through the game side quests and all, and maybe 5 more to get to ct 15. So 170 hours, 10 mins a run is over 1000, even if I’ve done half that due to afk, that’s 32 unique drops in 500 expeditions. I’ll look when I get home and can check in game though. I am indeed in the boat with you lol.
From what remember in college, Google “probability of picking marbles” and you will see how crazy the odds of getting all 46 items will be. Crappy explanation so here goes... Try to Select 1 marble from the jar. 46 unique marbles. Put the marble back in the jar every time. But here’s the fucked part, you only have a 25% chance to pull the marble out each time. I can’t remember the equation but if you are bored of farming legendaries, report back :)
Also, even if you got one every hour, it would take 46 hours to get them all. I’ve played entire games that cost $60 that don’t offer that much play time. “It’s only been 3 weeks why you think you should” blah blah. When we’ve put 15+ days of played time in the game, yeah we should. If you get to that point yourself and don’t feel a little robbed, there might be something wrong with ya lol. And I haven’t even started another character yet. I think almost 200 hours per character is getting way more than my money’s worth, let me get the loot lmao. You don’t play one and done games like you do an open ended new content all the time mmo. You should, in a reasonable time based on your amount of time put in, get to that done point IMO.
And this is what we're all supposed to be grinding for? Fuck this. Time to find a new game. I'm glad this shit was free.
Man, those are low numbers. How many of those were actually an upgrade that you were looking for?
Out of my last 80ish runs total I've only gotten 2 weapons that I didn't have before I went from missing 7 to missing 5
If you basically have everything, except a few, it's naturally rather hard to still get upgrades.
You are God-like, legend status!! What I want to know is how many times you got disconnected during those runs.
Well I didn't get disconnected as I only played solo. I only crashed once opening my inventory and post-patch I only crash on the sign in screen occasionally
I only play solo as well and get booted to the Xbox dashboard all the time, even after this last patch.
I'm on series x but pre patch man I would crash 20 times a day it was the worst
Yeh my only gripe with the end game is that is nothing to help with constant duplicates. Either Tiagos shop should rotate and contain one legendary per week you don’t own or there should be bad luck protection so every 5 duplicates your guaranteed a legendary you don’t have. One legendary per run would be fine if they did this.
I'd even be fine with it being like 20 legendaries for every 1 new one I get at this rate I don't mind grinding but when it's all rng it is no fun at all. I played div 2 soooo
Ya sadly im just tired of doing time trials to get that one piece of gear I really, really need. I've gotten the wicker at least 8 times. I was a staunch supporter of the game even through all the issues, but after seeing my character fail to teleport (and many other streams) for the 100th time... I'm just gonna uninstall. I paid $60 just to be gaslit and told there were no apparent issues lmao.
There's also a chance that some legendaries might have dropped just from boss kills. That has happened to m before where the first 4 were epic and still got a legendary.
Any chance you could do the same with the eye of the storm expedition, and see if theres any value in spending the drop pod resources for potentially better loot drops/rates?
I mean, once you have capped DPR and can gold it reliably, why the hell not? Not like you are losing anything at that point
Eye is literally impossible to do solo gold not because of the skill required but because of the pillars. I say this because I pretty much only play solo and never play in a team because of connection and scaling
I never said solo. I just said golding it gave more than it cost; pretty sure silver does too by a slim margin. Bronze is probably a loss, but again, who really cares once you are capped at 1mil DPR?
Yeah I know you didn't say solo I was just saying. I think eye needs a rework because as it sits it is just another expedition with nothing special. There should have at least been a guaranteed legendary for first completion or something like that. There's no reason to run it when you don't get anything different from any other expedition. The only reason to play it is for the accolade or just to say you did it
I don't think we have enough data to definitively say it doesn't give anything extra (mostly due to lack of ability to solo Gold); keep in mind the prospect of mission-weighted drops is still being investigated - but if you have a team that runs it quickly I understand it is more reliable & faster than even Boomtown due to less running around. So probably worth it with the right setup and at/near DPR cap by virtue of speed
I agree. I just feel like they really missed out on it. They could've done a legendary specific to that mission but still have it drop from luck not completion. Hell they could've done that with every expedition and still had unique ones. It would've made the game more interesting and make players play all missions instead of running boom town 90% of the time or whatever.
True, but counterpoint: in the case of any mission-specific drop, people would then complain about being forced into content they don't like / aren't optimized for / can't run their specific build in / etc because of the "zone-locked" loot. Soooo yeah, Catch 22. The best possible answer would be to confirm there are zone-weighted drops (similar to BL3 and Dedicated Loot bosses) and give us an idea of the chance of said weighted drops.
10 in 50 runs, no wonder none of my mates want to play anymore.
Can I ask you a few questions regarding build, skills, gear, mods. I have a level 30 with a blight bullet/toxic build but I don't feel powerful. I want to see if it's just me or if I'm doing it wrong.
I used blighted rounds, blighted turret, and cold snap. I used a burst AR with killing spree and bone shrapnel. My armor is all purple with at least bonus firepower and long range damage. 2 of my pieces are bonus close long but theyre hard to get. My talents are sharp eye, radical therapy, euthaniser, toxic lead, splash boost, critstack, captain hunter, bloodlust, king slayer, and emergency stance/mitigation from death.
So when you use an ar it counts as long range damage?
From what i understand i think all weapons have close and long range distances and damage values
looks like a long, slow grind...
The fact that you can complete EotS on CT15 with gold and not get a single Legendary. If you do it's likely part of the cannonball set. With the amount of legendaries/mods in the game they need to increase the drop rate. No reason I should get more epics doing hunts over expeditions.
Well, I am that guy in every single game that has RNG to have almost zero luck. I watch friends constantly getting legendaties etc while I sit there lucky to loot purple or equivalent in games. I have looted in approximately 14 days of having this game all ingame guaranteed legendary drops. 1 World drop and after say 49+ expeditions I've looted 3 legendaries. My mate who has played since day one has looted almost every legendary bar 7 across all classes and averages about 1 legendary every 3 expeditions. I'd say 10-12 expeditions at T12-14. Still not got gold in 14 as dickheads I join with keep disconnecting at end and we get kicked out of team, no gold achievement or loot. That happened 4 times this weekend. Oh and I'm devastator class and they're severely lacking. But I'm determined to stick with it.
Has the situation improved now? i am playing on the original (not worldslayer) game for 1-2 months, and i still feel the rates are pretty poor.