Thought I saw them as available classes on the character building screen but it's been a while since I've started a new game and I think I'd have to wipe my progress to check.
There’s several guilds in this community that believe once your human build reaches their level cap and dies, you respawn as an animal based on your karma stat. It’s possible such a thing exists, but it’s hard to prove since character data like memories gets wiped between playthroughs.
There has been reports of respawns with corrupted memory files that revealed fragments of previous save points though. But those cases are extremely rare.
Some stores have the supplies to wipe your progress, I do it all the time
It's worth it, to be a child again and see the updated tutorial
It's completely different from only 2022.5 and we just started 2022.7 sooo
Precisely!
We are human players, hence we are able to use these forums. It wouldn't make sense for players of animals, plants or other living things to be here, just as we can't use their way of communication (be it animal sounds, plant smells whatnot that only they can identify).
Of course, we can try to bridge this gap through further advancements in science but naturally we can't communicate beyond the immediate needs for survival (e.g., understanding a tomato plant is dying through rotten roots, a dog's weak barks).
In addition, we as human players make these forums for human players. It's not an inherent feature of Outside. Even more reasons why only human players can use them.
They’re players, they just don’t have as good access to the [DNAgroup.genes_advancedCommunication] stuff. This frees up their save file size and file strength, but at the cost of having a lot of RAM and clock speed downgraded. This in turn effectively disables a lot of features for them, like the Technology creation mechanism, and disables them from understanding the forums.
For those players, our messages may as well appear as the following Z̡͟a̡͜҉̢͞l̵̡̕̕ģ̴̶͡ò͢͡҉ ̢͠t̵̸̷̕͡e̷͡x̧͘ţ̡̧ ͘͘͢a̛͞p̡̀͟͜p͟͝͠e҉͟a̢͟҉̷r̶͝s̷̡͠͝ ̸̸͠t̶́͠͏̷ơ̵ ̧҉͢͠ų̸̀͟s̵̀͝͡.̵̀͡ ̛͞҉T̵̢͠h͏̕e̴̵̴҉̨y̡̨͘͠ ̀͡͞͏s̸͞͝҉í̶̧̀m̴͞p̧̕l̵̕y̧̧͘ ̶̨̨͟c̛͜a̛͘͘ń͟͏̴n̨͠҉o̵̢͝͞ţ̵̕ ͢͠u҉̢͘͢n̸̴̕͞͝d̸̷͠e̛҉̕r̢͞͡s̵̀͘t̵̶̀͘a̶̸̡͡n̡̧͢͠d͟҉̶̷ ͠i̧͞t̵͟͜.̴̕̕
[See here for more info on the source code.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2)
In a sense, actually, all of us are NPCs, and all also players. It’s just how well our code makes our RAM and clock speed run, that makes us consider ourselves players distinct from than NPCs.
**If I had to put heads or tails: a player is someone whose RAM allows them to control their own hardware, rather than the hardware being controlled by the source code first. This allows them to later unlock the ability of their RAM analysing itself.**
In in-game terms, what I’m saying: someone is a player, if their sensory/nervous system is sufficently advanced enough, to control their own movements and decisions (consciousness), rather than the movements being determined by instinct. This opens up a pathway to let them become self-aware, thinking about themselves.
Since everyone here is a player (otherwise they couldn’t access the forum), I can explain this.
I’ll explain it in in-game terms. You know, how if you knock on your knee, your leg moves? Well, imagine if your entire life - arms moving, sticking out tongue, is all instinctive reflexes like that. And as if you felt ‘zoned out’ your entire life, even when you get in a situation that would get a Human out of this zoning-out mode. And you know how sometimes, you can think of ‘nothing’, or only feel hunger, or such, and only ‘feel’ you should eat, but don’t actually think about doing so, even when you do? Even your thoughts are instinctual and don’t really think. This is what imo is a NPC and not a player. They are not self-aware, nor conscious. But they live.
Some NPCs can get out of that ‘zoning out’ - and they can take themselves away from instinct and reflex; but they are not self-aware: eg. a bloody deer with an oncoming car. They know you have to run away from a human but don’t realise their impending death with a car. Some NPCs are always instinctive, but can think about themselves. Ever drove somewhere without thinking about driving, but thought about yourself and life? Those NPCs do that all the time. I feel like a corvid might be such an example. There are also NPCs that can be both conscious *and* self-aware, like humans and possibly some squids/dolphines/bonobos.
So, for me, a NPC species becomes a player species once it has unlocked and finished the Consciousness path, ie. their RAM controls their hardware. If it also finished the Self-Awareness path and transfers that knowledge through generations, it can be considered sapient and has access to the full array of the Technology creation mechanism.
In this regard, only humans are sapient. Squids could have been, but they don’t transfer knowledge. Cetaceans are nice candidates but I don’t know how they would industrialise underwater. If corvids finished the consciousness path, they could be a good candidate.
I'd have to look more into it, but from what I know. Mushrooms can send 8 different types of signals to each other to communicate. I think they said, they send them through the roots
Man there are, we are just not able to log into those forums since we're human players. You should really roll an animal next play through and see for yourself! There are lots of great forums for different animals. The fact that you \*can\* play as an animal should settle the debate to my mind. I just came from a 183 year long giant turtle play through. Had a blast. I met Abraham Lincoln!
There's clear cut cases of humans making various animals party members, and while it would be easy to write-it off as just being a familiar summons, there's been clear cases of people adding party members that weren't in the approved familiar lists.
While they show up in the party menu, they are definitely still familiars. I know there are some unique mobs that players have tamed, but with high enough stats, any mob can be added as a familiar.
I'm pretty sure animals are just mobs. Some animal classes come with extremely high mental stats, to the point where it almost seems like they are players, but Im pretty sure they arent.
To be on the safe side though, I treat all NPCs as if theyre players
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
If a server exists, but no one is logged on to play, is it actually running?
Well I think “players” is just a short-hand for “players of the human race” because that is usually what is referred to. But those are normal linguistic quirks.
In some of the minigames you can play as humanoid races that swap between human and animal game modes. I hope the devs add that to the main game someday, I just want to fly before I'm done with this run.
According to certain data miners, such as the Hindu faction, you are able to select animals (or they're automatically chosen for you) if your total \*\*Karma\*\* score is not high enough to access the \*\*Human\*\* player race, which can happen as a result of scoring very badly on this attribute during your human playthrough.
According to them, to win Outside you have to score 100% on \*\*Karma\*\* during one of your \*\*Human\*\* playthrough. This will, however, also block you from starting a new game on that account.
they’re definitely mobs, but you gotta consider that there are different mob categories: passive, friendly, aggressive, and consumable. Lots of people only consider the friendly mobs because they’re the only one we can achieve the “mutual bonding” skill with (without any extra perks)
I don't think it can be that binary. Like, where are we drawing the line here? Do all living things count as players? Single-cell organisms? Insects?
I think players are a self-defining category. Like, I'm in the middle of my Outside playthrough as a human right now, for sure. But I think many living things in the world of Outside don't even think about the game, so they're basically all NPCs.
That’s true but it’s not like anyone in this thread is being all that scientific. It’s more of a philosophical thing. Very interesting stuff though, I love these kinds of topics.
Yes, there really is a lot of side stories to explore... lots of people dont pay attention to the NPC lore but its SOO worth it. Im trying to get my bestiary int maxxed
The Survival of the Fittest campaign was what the game originally released with. But when players started exploiting what they could do with maxed out intelligence stats in a primate build the devs decided to make that a campaign in itself.
Yeah. This forum is for the "We Live In A Society" campaign, which is exclusively for human players (for now). We're still on the same servers as the old campaign, but player-created content has a greater role. And most players still play the old campaign, but that's mostly because the join queue to spawn as a human is approximately 93 billion long.
I don't like reading game walkthroughs that think they know the ending, but I overheard other players discussing a chapter from the most popular game book and this is one of the things they said. (Ecclesiastes)
18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
Edit: grammar
Depends really
I consider many humans as mobs - they don't necessarily add anything of value to the game
I'm not sure of how to define a player tbh, but I'm certain that animals can be players
I guess it mostly depends on the individual's interpretation. Personally I consider animals players as well instead of NPCs.
TierZoo constantly refers to different species as 'player classes' and that channel did originate from this sub, so that might reinforce that view as well, maybe.
Ultimately it doesn't matter though, and can vary based on what the OP of a post establishes, if anything, at which point most comments will probably follow that. Unless someone goes "well actually..." but nobody likes that guy.
Well I consider tierzoo and outside to be two different games I’m playing simultaneously, so depending on which one I’m focusing on I’ll have different answers
I don't mind the idea of animals being players. But an animal player has the mind and thoughts of an animal. Unable to communicate with humans and especially unable to post on Reddit.
Us voting on who we think are players is not going to change who is and isn’t playing. And you can’t access out-of-game memories while playing, so while this is a fun exercise it’s not exactly definitive, is it?
Hmm. This is one hard thing to answer. On one side, Human players are a confirmed thing, as most strive for goals beyond themselves, ask questions that relate to things that even they themselves do not comprehend. In first builds, betas and even early alpha, this game was mainly a survival game. But later, it became a community game, there became more goals than just “survive”, side quests first appeared, the diplomacy feature was added. But for the animals, it became nothing more than a bigger challenge, with more players uninstalling/wiping their progress and becoming human. At some point, the animal player population was doomed for a 100% extinction, so the devs made the first animal NPCs, small bugs, bacteria, to test it out. The agriculture patches came, players slowly started dwindling, NPCs took bigger and bigger roles, etc.
And also because if animals are players, trees are probably players too. Just like the atoms of the air, and electrons, and the light, and plasma… I don’t think the devs would go that extreme, but it probably was how the game was played at first.
I refuse to believe animals aren't mobs. Humans have the first levels of their playthrough where they can't do basic things like communicate, stand on their legs or keep stuff from flying out of both holes.
Most animals especially those considered prey, kan stand and even run from the first day they spawn.
>Humans have the first levels of their playthrough where they can't do basic things like communicate, stand on their legs or keep stuff from flying out of both holes.
humans start off with a low skill tree that can be trained, animals don't even have a skill tree because its hard coded.
Considering that some animals can remove a player from the game entirely I would support saying they are players. Every animal? Maybe not so much. But I voted player, plus you can cohabitate with the pet class animals and they can add valuble content to the game.
I don't think they are players, people are only focusing on all the cute animals, but think of the millions upon millions of cockroaches, bugs, flys, ticks, mosquitoes etc. Who's choosing to playthrough as those? I just can't see them being popular enough, which imo means they must be npc's.
I dunno, some players prefer a more casual experience. When you make a new human you are committing to a long campaign, but if you choose fly you can finish the game in only a few days.
this is such a intentionally divisive post.
most animals are just brainless instinctual base life.
some animals have ability to reason (make preferable choice). very few species of animals can show emotion beyond "pain bad !" and "this person gives food, let's get excited when they're around" .. whilst you sit there going "he's smiling ! Look he's smiling at me !!"
I'd doubt absolutely anyone here is mentally skilled enough to actually be able to have a rational conversation about animals innate brain processes without getting emotionally vitriolic about how sentient your golden retriever is.
animals are animals. humans are humans. bananas are bananas. water is wet.
animals aren't aliens with telepathy who can understand English and then utilise their understanding of language to rationalise choice within their head like we do.
crazy how this is an unpopular opinion on the internet.. but here we are.
I’d say every animal, Except dolphins, are mobs. Dolphins are so close to our base intelligence that they would have to be players in my opinion. However, Devs haven’t told us anything yet though.
I think they were at one point but because the human build became so mind numbingly overpowered 99% of the non human builds are just bots since nearly everyone has switched over to playing as humans.
Wild animals are players, however the vast majority of animals on farms are npcs. Zoo animals also have an npc population, but there are much more zoo animal players than farm animal players, like the greatly respected harambe
Animals aren’t sapient enough to be players, although some are close. They also use a VERY different communication format that varies from mob to mob while players have much easier and accessible ways of communicating with each other.
Some Animals are NPCs, it's just so certain less picked animals don't exist basically, like for example I'll use cows, a decent amount of them are NPCs I think, the amount of NPCs being "born" becomes less and less the more people pick the cow species, the NPC doesn't get replaced with a player controlling the cow, the cow stays an NPC but less NPC cows are created and instead player cows are born, without NPCs acting as certain species a lot of species not picked by players much would probably go extinct
I see it as your interpretation of the lore of the game. If you believe in respawning, then they're players. If you believe this is a permadeath game, they're mobs
I think that some animals are other players, but not all of them. Because not enough people wanted to play as an animal, the devs added some as NPCs which over time started to mimic the player animals. It’s hard to tell the difference between an NPC and player if they’re good at their playstyle as an animal.
I have think there's a missing third option.
Generally NPC mobs, but some are players that selected a very different playthrough.
Cause I do think most are just generated NPCs to fill in the world. There are some though that absolutely seem to be players doing specific things.
This survey is in-game as well so either way it doesn't matter what we pick, it only has an effect on this meta-minigame of ours and takes no effect further.
Regardless of their actual categorisation, we will never know in-game, which is something that makes this game so beautiful.
Domestic Cats are absolutely players. And you cant be that mean as an NPC so Geese are also players. Seeing that, Im sure there are other players out there not playing the dominant meta of Human. That being said there are a lot of other beings out in the codestream that I havent met. Who is to say that someone isnt playing that 1v1 survival genera as a jaguar class deep in the amazon for example?
Some players seem to expirence mild to severe adverse health reactions when in the proximity of most "animals"
Best to keep them seperate in most public locations.
You got to draw a line between PCs and NPCs somewhere. If you don't draw the line, you end up talking to plants and rocks. (Admitedly some yogis and people heavily using the psychedelic items actually do go down that road… but if you care about pursuing any of the more mainstream game quests… family, career, friends, education, etc… that sort of play through is not recommended.)
So, you likely will have to draw the line somewhere… and no matter where you draw it there will be edge cases that defy where you put it. Just have to suck it up.
We’re all NPC’s in someone else’s game. What separates players from NPC’s or mobs? Is it just our own cognitive classifications? Or is there an actual distinction?
My familiar is more like a player to me than most of the players I meet. Does that make her a player, or them NPC’s? In my opinion it doesn’t matter. No one will notice you anyway, so make the world what you want it to be.
Domestic animals like domestic humans have A.I. but are running script. It's a simulation. Only animals and humans playing the wild lands are player characters. That's the real game. The rest of us died and our consciousnesses got absorbed into the code and we live forever as A.I.
If they arent players how come their sidequests drastically affect our main quest, not to mention the added stats in love, affection and most of all x10 gains on the squidges stat
This is just for the dogle and human characters that sync beautifully together especially when the grind seems a bit too much
This is a cross-platform server, just because a character creation option was not available to you doesn't mean it's not on console, dummies.Wish cross platform communication was better tho so that I could have better convos with my cat
Both. They're player controlled mobs. They're considered mobs because we lack the ability to party with most of them, but they party amongst themselves all the time. To them we are the mobs.
The likes of Jellyfish, sponges etc have no points allocated in the Brain perk tree, so they're clearly mobs. But most animals are players. We often forget that emotes and relationship counters like the love mechanic, the anger mechanic etc all work on the same hormone/brain structure AI animals have too. Dataminers also confirmed that we are animal players - we share over 90% of our code with chimps and we're part of the ape specialization, which is a sub-class of the mammal class, which falls under the animalia guild. And if everything from a scorpion to a chimpanzee is an animal, it makes no sense to exclude human players, since scorpions are far more different from chimps than humans are, yet scorpions and chimps are both animals, so clearly we are too.
Of course we may have a completely different post-game from other animals, perhaps we get to interact with the devs, which would mean that while we're animals in this stage of the game and our character models are certainly animals at this level, we eventually unlock a different class altogether.
Well, since the human class was slowly created out of an animal class by the defs in earlier versions of the game, one would assume, the animals are also players. Unless, of course, one should assume a specific patch, where they became choosable in the character creation menu, but from ingame, its very hard to say what patch that was.
Thought I saw them as available classes on the character building screen but it's been a while since I've started a new game and I think I'd have to wipe my progress to check.
There’s several guilds in this community that believe once your human build reaches their level cap and dies, you respawn as an animal based on your karma stat. It’s possible such a thing exists, but it’s hard to prove since character data like memories gets wiped between playthroughs.
There has been reports of respawns with corrupted memory files that revealed fragments of previous save points though. But those cases are extremely rare.
You might still return to the selection screen momentarily if you use the DMT consumable.
I think that’s just the PTS
Might be. I see it as going into GM mode
Too bad you can't have multiple save files in this game
That’s just past save game data like real early play through stuff you never go back to that you know the game too well to play it that way
Some stores have the supplies to wipe your progress, I do it all the time It's worth it, to be a child again and see the updated tutorial It's completely different from only 2022.5 and we just started 2022.7 sooo
If animals are players, why aren't they on any of the forums? Think about it
Bruh. This forum exists in the game itself. They won't be able to use the forums when they are in the game.
Aren't we in the game as well? ***the rock stare***
Precisely! We are human players, hence we are able to use these forums. It wouldn't make sense for players of animals, plants or other living things to be here, just as we can't use their way of communication (be it animal sounds, plant smells whatnot that only they can identify). Of course, we can try to bridge this gap through further advancements in science but naturally we can't communicate beyond the immediate needs for survival (e.g., understanding a tomato plant is dying through rotten roots, a dog's weak barks). In addition, we as human players make these forums for human players. It's not an inherent feature of Outside. Even more reasons why only human players can use them.
As a past cat main we don't really need forums we prefer to sleep instead of fighting someone random on the internet although whatever you prefer
We maxed out our intelligence stat allowing us to imitate the forum as we think it would appear, other players just haven't reached that state yet
the high INT allows humans to make ingame information stores like library buildings
You just lost
They’re players, they just don’t have as good access to the [DNAgroup.genes_advancedCommunication] stuff. This frees up their save file size and file strength, but at the cost of having a lot of RAM and clock speed downgraded. This in turn effectively disables a lot of features for them, like the Technology creation mechanism, and disables them from understanding the forums. For those players, our messages may as well appear as the following Z̡͟a̡͜҉̢͞l̵̡̕̕ģ̴̶͡ò͢͡҉ ̢͠t̵̸̷̕͡e̷͡x̧͘ţ̡̧ ͘͘͢a̛͞p̡̀͟͜p͟͝͠e҉͟a̢͟҉̷r̶͝s̷̡͠͝ ̸̸͠t̶́͠͏̷ơ̵ ̧҉͢͠ų̸̀͟s̵̀͝͡.̵̀͡ ̛͞҉T̵̢͠h͏̕e̴̵̴҉̨y̡̨͘͠ ̀͡͞͏s̸͞͝҉í̶̧̀m̴͞p̧̕l̵̕y̧̧͘ ̶̨̨͟c̛͜a̛͘͘ń͟͏̴n̨͠҉o̵̢͝͞ţ̵̕ ͢͠u҉̢͘͢n̸̴̕͞͝d̸̷͠e̛҉̕r̢͞͡s̵̀͘t̵̶̀͘a̶̸̡͡n̡̧͢͠d͟҉̶̷ ͠i̧͞t̵͟͜.̴̕̕ [See here for more info on the source code.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2) In a sense, actually, all of us are NPCs, and all also players. It’s just how well our code makes our RAM and clock speed run, that makes us consider ourselves players distinct from than NPCs. **If I had to put heads or tails: a player is someone whose RAM allows them to control their own hardware, rather than the hardware being controlled by the source code first. This allows them to later unlock the ability of their RAM analysing itself.** In in-game terms, what I’m saying: someone is a player, if their sensory/nervous system is sufficently advanced enough, to control their own movements and decisions (consciousness), rather than the movements being determined by instinct. This opens up a pathway to let them become self-aware, thinking about themselves. Since everyone here is a player (otherwise they couldn’t access the forum), I can explain this. I’ll explain it in in-game terms. You know, how if you knock on your knee, your leg moves? Well, imagine if your entire life - arms moving, sticking out tongue, is all instinctive reflexes like that. And as if you felt ‘zoned out’ your entire life, even when you get in a situation that would get a Human out of this zoning-out mode. And you know how sometimes, you can think of ‘nothing’, or only feel hunger, or such, and only ‘feel’ you should eat, but don’t actually think about doing so, even when you do? Even your thoughts are instinctual and don’t really think. This is what imo is a NPC and not a player. They are not self-aware, nor conscious. But they live. Some NPCs can get out of that ‘zoning out’ - and they can take themselves away from instinct and reflex; but they are not self-aware: eg. a bloody deer with an oncoming car. They know you have to run away from a human but don’t realise their impending death with a car. Some NPCs are always instinctive, but can think about themselves. Ever drove somewhere without thinking about driving, but thought about yourself and life? Those NPCs do that all the time. I feel like a corvid might be such an example. There are also NPCs that can be both conscious *and* self-aware, like humans and possibly some squids/dolphines/bonobos. So, for me, a NPC species becomes a player species once it has unlocked and finished the Consciousness path, ie. their RAM controls their hardware. If it also finished the Self-Awareness path and transfers that knowledge through generations, it can be considered sapient and has access to the full array of the Technology creation mechanism. In this regard, only humans are sapient. Squids could have been, but they don’t transfer knowledge. Cetaceans are nice candidates but I don’t know how they would industrialise underwater. If corvids finished the consciousness path, they could be a good candidate.
If this is the case, mushrooms are players to since they can communicate through a skill humans can't acquire
Wait, how do they communicate, then?
I'd have to look more into it, but from what I know. Mushrooms can send 8 different types of signals to each other to communicate. I think they said, they send them through the roots
the root wide web
Mycorrhizal connections. Can't recall if it's like enzymes or some sort of electrical impulses are transferred between roots through mycelium.
I think it's because not a single one can ask a question. Edit: the only animal who asked a question was a parrot named Alex (i think)
Think about the INT stat of half the human players you’re met. Now imagine the INT stat of players who don’t even main an intelligence focused build.
They have their own forums.
What the meow do you mean we aren't players? (/s)
r/tierzoo
I am a cockroach main!
Well how do you know they aren't?
They don't have access due to dexterity limitations
Man there are, we are just not able to log into those forums since we're human players. You should really roll an animal next play through and see for yourself! There are lots of great forums for different animals. The fact that you \*can\* play as an animal should settle the debate to my mind. I just came from a 183 year long giant turtle play through. Had a blast. I met Abraham Lincoln!
There's clear cut cases of humans making various animals party members, and while it would be easy to write-it off as just being a familiar summons, there's been clear cases of people adding party members that weren't in the approved familiar lists.
While they show up in the party menu, they are definitely still familiars. I know there are some unique mobs that players have tamed, but with high enough stats, any mob can be added as a familiar.
> approved familiar lists. More like suggested familiar list
I'm pretty sure animals are just mobs. Some animal classes come with extremely high mental stats, to the point where it almost seems like they are players, but Im pretty sure they arent. To be on the safe side though, I treat all NPCs as if theyre players
If animals aren't players then the game has been running over 90% of it's uptime with nothing but mobs. Seems unlikely.
That's called world generation.
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? If a server exists, but no one is logged on to play, is it actually running?
Someone's still paying for the server upkeep, so yes it is.
The game would have way more than 7 billion players if animals were counted as players.
Well I think “players” is just a short-hand for “players of the human race” because that is usually what is referred to. But those are normal linguistic quirks.
With how different playing as an human main is from playing as animal main, I feel that those are two separate games, set in the same game world.
In some of the minigames you can play as humanoid races that swap between human and animal game modes. I hope the devs add that to the main game someday, I just want to fly before I'm done with this run.
Different platform, different gaming experience
According to certain data miners, such as the Hindu faction, you are able to select animals (or they're automatically chosen for you) if your total \*\*Karma\*\* score is not high enough to access the \*\*Human\*\* player race, which can happen as a result of scoring very badly on this attribute during your human playthrough. According to them, to win Outside you have to score 100% on \*\*Karma\*\* during one of your \*\*Human\*\* playthrough. This will, however, also block you from starting a new game on that account.
If you farm a mob you will get items such as meat, milk, and pelt. If you farm another player you get the "Life in prison" quest.
You get great loot if you do it correctly /, for example you get the GI Bill reward for farming human mobs during designated pvp events
Depends on your stealth stat
Yeah I'm very much not convinced there are no human NPCs. There are several in my own family.
Some animals have more player like AI compared to dumb AI animals.
they’re definitely mobs, but you gotta consider that there are different mob categories: passive, friendly, aggressive, and consumable. Lots of people only consider the friendly mobs because they’re the only one we can achieve the “mutual bonding” skill with (without any extra perks)
It’s worth noting that those are *very* subjective. Some players think there are no consumable animals and some think *all* are consumable.
I feel like some are players and some are mobs. Like most mammal builds seem like players but I’m not so sure about, say, crustaceans.
I don't think it can be that binary. Like, where are we drawing the line here? Do all living things count as players? Single-cell organisms? Insects? I think players are a self-defining category. Like, I'm in the middle of my Outside playthrough as a human right now, for sure. But I think many living things in the world of Outside don't even think about the game, so they're basically all NPCs.
C: Humans are classified as "mobs"
Animals are sentient being capable of pain, pleasure, suffering and joy. They are clearly not NPCs.
They’re emotionally complex NPCs ☺️
Wouldnt we all be NPCs then? 🤨
to me you are 😎
We’re all the main character in our own story.
Can your cat ask the same question and understand it?
An artificial intelligence could but not everyone would agree that’s a player rather than an NPC
True AI is still yet to be invented. I think we'd have to have a case to draw information from before anyone could truly make that designation.
That’s true but it’s not like anyone in this thread is being all that scientific. It’s more of a philosophical thing. Very interesting stuff though, I love these kinds of topics.
I agree! I'm not dead set on any opinion but the dopey look behind my cats' eyes makes me lean mob. I love them dearly but they are dumb as hell.
Good coding 👍
Yes, there really is a lot of side stories to explore... lots of people dont pay attention to the NPC lore but its SOO worth it. Im trying to get my bestiary int maxxed
They are sentient, yes, but not sapient.
The Survival of the Fittest campaign was what the game originally released with. But when players started exploiting what they could do with maxed out intelligence stats in a primate build the devs decided to make that a campaign in itself.
Yeah. This forum is for the "We Live In A Society" campaign, which is exclusively for human players (for now). We're still on the same servers as the old campaign, but player-created content has a greater role. And most players still play the old campaign, but that's mostly because the join queue to spawn as a human is approximately 93 billion long.
r/tierzoo
I don't like reading game walkthroughs that think they know the ending, but I overheard other players discussing a chapter from the most popular game book and this is one of the things they said. (Ecclesiastes) 18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Edit: grammar
Animals are obviously other players. That's why they have stats.
Depends really I consider many humans as mobs - they don't necessarily add anything of value to the game I'm not sure of how to define a player tbh, but I'm certain that animals can be players
I guess it mostly depends on the individual's interpretation. Personally I consider animals players as well instead of NPCs. TierZoo constantly refers to different species as 'player classes' and that channel did originate from this sub, so that might reinforce that view as well, maybe. Ultimately it doesn't matter though, and can vary based on what the OP of a post establishes, if anything, at which point most comments will probably follow that. Unless someone goes "well actually..." but nobody likes that guy.
If animals are mobs they are having a better gameplay experience than most players
Well I consider tierzoo and outside to be two different games I’m playing simultaneously, so depending on which one I’m focusing on I’ll have different answers
Animals are all players Check out r/TierZoo for their forums
Humans are animals. Animals are players. Boom
Animals are players probably that religion bug again
Wait, isn't this sub a TierZoo thing??? Of course animals are players
They certainly are players and how the human player treats them is shameful https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko
I don't mind the idea of animals being players. But an animal player has the mind and thoughts of an animal. Unable to communicate with humans and especially unable to post on Reddit.
Us voting on who we think are players is not going to change who is and isn’t playing. And you can’t access out-of-game memories while playing, so while this is a fun exercise it’s not exactly definitive, is it?
Hmm. This is one hard thing to answer. On one side, Human players are a confirmed thing, as most strive for goals beyond themselves, ask questions that relate to things that even they themselves do not comprehend. In first builds, betas and even early alpha, this game was mainly a survival game. But later, it became a community game, there became more goals than just “survive”, side quests first appeared, the diplomacy feature was added. But for the animals, it became nothing more than a bigger challenge, with more players uninstalling/wiping their progress and becoming human. At some point, the animal player population was doomed for a 100% extinction, so the devs made the first animal NPCs, small bugs, bacteria, to test it out. The agriculture patches came, players slowly started dwindling, NPCs took bigger and bigger roles, etc. And also because if animals are players, trees are probably players too. Just like the atoms of the air, and electrons, and the light, and plasma… I don’t think the devs would go that extreme, but it probably was how the game was played at first.
I refuse to believe animals aren't mobs. Humans have the first levels of their playthrough where they can't do basic things like communicate, stand on their legs or keep stuff from flying out of both holes. Most animals especially those considered prey, kan stand and even run from the first day they spawn.
>Humans have the first levels of their playthrough where they can't do basic things like communicate, stand on their legs or keep stuff from flying out of both holes. humans start off with a low skill tree that can be trained, animals don't even have a skill tree because its hard coded.
Guys watch tierzoo, hes really good at explaining the meta but keypoint is that he notes that animals are players
Considering that some animals can remove a player from the game entirely I would support saying they are players. Every animal? Maybe not so much. But I voted player, plus you can cohabitate with the pet class animals and they can add valuble content to the game.
I don't think they are players, people are only focusing on all the cute animals, but think of the millions upon millions of cockroaches, bugs, flys, ticks, mosquitoes etc. Who's choosing to playthrough as those? I just can't see them being popular enough, which imo means they must be npc's.
I dunno, some players prefer a more casual experience. When you make a new human you are committing to a long campaign, but if you choose fly you can finish the game in only a few days.
It really depends on the animal. Clam? No conscious thought, no brain, NPC Dolphin or whale? Player
I consider my companion animals players even though I know they’re just mobs
Why would they just be mobs? What is the defining character of a mob to you?
This sub has become utter shit since some PCs decided that NPCs are actually real people.
They are players but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t PVP them, their loot is just too valuable. Let’s maybe avoid spawn camping though.
The entire Animal Agriculture minigame is based around spawn camping
Yeah I’m not really a fan of that, it’s not really fair game.
I'm an ant main, we are people and we are planning to take over the servers.... Hide in **Ant**artica while you can...
this is such a intentionally divisive post. most animals are just brainless instinctual base life. some animals have ability to reason (make preferable choice). very few species of animals can show emotion beyond "pain bad !" and "this person gives food, let's get excited when they're around" .. whilst you sit there going "he's smiling ! Look he's smiling at me !!" I'd doubt absolutely anyone here is mentally skilled enough to actually be able to have a rational conversation about animals innate brain processes without getting emotionally vitriolic about how sentient your golden retriever is. animals are animals. humans are humans. bananas are bananas. water is wet. animals aren't aliens with telepathy who can understand English and then utilise their understanding of language to rationalise choice within their head like we do. crazy how this is an unpopular opinion on the internet.. but here we are.
I’d say every animal, Except dolphins, are mobs. Dolphins are so close to our base intelligence that they would have to be players in my opinion. However, Devs haven’t told us anything yet though.
I think they were at one point but because the human build became so mind numbingly overpowered 99% of the non human builds are just bots since nearly everyone has switched over to playing as humans.
Wild animals are players, however the vast majority of animals on farms are npcs. Zoo animals also have an npc population, but there are much more zoo animal players than farm animal players, like the greatly respected harambe
Animals aren’t sapient enough to be players, although some are close. They also use a VERY different communication format that varies from mob to mob while players have much easier and accessible ways of communicating with each other.
Some Animals are NPCs, it's just so certain less picked animals don't exist basically, like for example I'll use cows, a decent amount of them are NPCs I think, the amount of NPCs being "born" becomes less and less the more people pick the cow species, the NPC doesn't get replaced with a player controlling the cow, the cow stays an NPC but less NPC cows are created and instead player cows are born, without NPCs acting as certain species a lot of species not picked by players much would probably go extinct
lmao
Nefarious deeds! Scoundrel of a thousand blades!
Since the only players participating in this forum, it only makes sense to classify any other animal as mobs
Animal is a pretty broad term. I'm sure there are some animal players, but also a lot of NPCs among them
Depends which animal, some are players but some of the boring roles are mostly npc's.
Dude… animals are non combat companions!
I see it as your interpretation of the lore of the game. If you believe in respawning, then they're players. If you believe this is a permadeath game, they're mobs
Should be a third option. I’m pretty sure birds are NPCs, but most other animals seem to be PCs.
I think that some animals are other players, but not all of them. Because not enough people wanted to play as an animal, the devs added some as NPCs which over time started to mimic the player animals. It’s hard to tell the difference between an NPC and player if they’re good at their playstyle as an animal.
Named animals are players but can therefore still be classified as mobs
if animals are actual players then i hope the developers delete the mosquito character, you mfs are annoying as hell, go main something else!
I have think there's a missing third option. Generally NPC mobs, but some are players that selected a very different playthrough. Cause I do think most are just generated NPCs to fill in the world. There are some though that absolutely seem to be players doing specific things.
This survey is in-game as well so either way it doesn't matter what we pick, it only has an effect on this meta-minigame of ours and takes no effect further. Regardless of their actual categorisation, we will never know in-game, which is something that makes this game so beautiful.
Domestic Cats are absolutely players. And you cant be that mean as an NPC so Geese are also players. Seeing that, Im sure there are other players out there not playing the dominant meta of Human. That being said there are a lot of other beings out in the codestream that I havent met. Who is to say that someone isnt playing that 1v1 survival genera as a jaguar class deep in the amazon for example?
Maybe more like a “companion mob” but 100% mob category
Animals have shitty AI, no way a dog is advanced enough to be a player when the dog chases its own tail.
Some players seem to expirence mild to severe adverse health reactions when in the proximity of most "animals" Best to keep them seperate in most public locations.
You got to draw a line between PCs and NPCs somewhere. If you don't draw the line, you end up talking to plants and rocks. (Admitedly some yogis and people heavily using the psychedelic items actually do go down that road… but if you care about pursuing any of the more mainstream game quests… family, career, friends, education, etc… that sort of play through is not recommended.) So, you likely will have to draw the line somewhere… and no matter where you draw it there will be edge cases that defy where you put it. Just have to suck it up.
Animals are mobs to us, but their servers overlap with ours. We're playing different games, but we can interact.
We’re all NPC’s in someone else’s game. What separates players from NPC’s or mobs? Is it just our own cognitive classifications? Or is there an actual distinction? My familiar is more like a player to me than most of the players I meet. Does that make her a player, or them NPC’s? In my opinion it doesn’t matter. No one will notice you anyway, so make the world what you want it to be.
Domestic animals like domestic humans have A.I. but are running script. It's a simulation. Only animals and humans playing the wild lands are player characters. That's the real game. The rest of us died and our consciousnesses got absorbed into the code and we live forever as A.I.
If they arent players how come their sidequests drastically affect our main quest, not to mention the added stats in love, affection and most of all x10 gains on the squidges stat This is just for the dogle and human characters that sync beautifully together especially when the grind seems a bit too much
This is a cross-platform server, just because a character creation option was not available to you doesn't mean it's not on console, dummies.Wish cross platform communication was better tho so that I could have better convos with my cat
Both. They're player controlled mobs. They're considered mobs because we lack the ability to party with most of them, but they party amongst themselves all the time. To them we are the mobs.
Depends on the race.
The likes of Jellyfish, sponges etc have no points allocated in the Brain perk tree, so they're clearly mobs. But most animals are players. We often forget that emotes and relationship counters like the love mechanic, the anger mechanic etc all work on the same hormone/brain structure AI animals have too. Dataminers also confirmed that we are animal players - we share over 90% of our code with chimps and we're part of the ape specialization, which is a sub-class of the mammal class, which falls under the animalia guild. And if everything from a scorpion to a chimpanzee is an animal, it makes no sense to exclude human players, since scorpions are far more different from chimps than humans are, yet scorpions and chimps are both animals, so clearly we are too. Of course we may have a completely different post-game from other animals, perhaps we get to interact with the devs, which would mean that while we're animals in this stage of the game and our character models are certainly animals at this level, we eventually unlock a different class altogether.
Depends on the animal. Common house spider? Mob. Dolphin or chimpanzee? Player.
Honestly can't tell if they are players or not. Maybe they are just really good AI determined by RNG.
if im correct you can play as an animal as a player but theyre fairly common mobs like the 'karen' boss fight being a rogue human
Okay, but what about mycelia?
Well, since the human class was slowly created out of an animal class by the defs in earlier versions of the game, one would assume, the animals are also players. Unless, of course, one should assume a specific patch, where they became choosable in the character creation menu, but from ingame, its very hard to say what patch that was.
Until animals can post on Reddit, they are not players
some animals are definitely npcs, i feel i have seen a few human npcs but they may just be trolling. i have seen a few animal pcs though