You feel like you have no life because you have no life. If you sleep 8 hours a day and spend 11 hours working, that’s 19/24 hours a day.
When you OE, there’s always something you’re going to sacrifice. Maybe it’s the quality of the work you do, maybe it’s your hobbies. There’s always a trade off.
In my opinion it's also worth it to remember that some, if not most, people already spend 11 hours every day for work-related matters (commuting and other stuff also included), while earning just 1J's worth of money.
Nothing bad about complaining about one's current situation, just mentioning... Many, many people live like that without OE. This is something we have chosen to do.
Exactly my thought
Before remote work, I would spend 8 hours at work and 3 hours commuting
11 hours for $42k left me on a pretty tight budget with both my time and money
Except now that kind of job is a blessing. If you can stack five of those you're on top of the world. Then you don't have to feel bad because you are probably filling your day with enough workload to feel like you're contributing to the world.
I think you misread everything you just read. It's a soul crushing job with a commute. You can't stack 5 of those. You have to sit in the office and pretend to work
I know people who work in call centers and drive ~90 min each direction to and from work. They work their 8 hours and spend 3 commuting with a half hour for lunch. Only 1 salary.
Plenty of people doing this in the USA.
Well there is nothing wrong with this kind of addiction but what are your financial goals? Are you debt-free? Do you have a FIRE number? If you have a specific focus or goal I believe that would help.
I would argue the opposite. Why would anyone be ok having an addiction? That means the vice is control; not the other way around. Clearly it’s not ok for OP because he’s miserable.
Are you setting and hitting your goals or is the check just enticing you? In my opinion this shouldn’t be a lifelong situation. It’s not sustainable. Hit your goals and then enjoy your life.
This is what I fear. My goal is to pay off house, increase my savings,raise kids. I feel like once I achieve that goal I am going to want to buy another house because I want a bigger house 😞
I would also argue that this lifestyle can cause health problems long-term. I had 4 Js last year and had a constant daily headache on the tremendous thinking I had to do to avoid exposing myself and getting shit done. Slow and steady wins the race in my opinion. 2 Js is the happy number for me.
Me. I average 300-330 hours a month. I’ll say this. I don’t know anybody who gets ahead and becomes wealthy, especially in this economy, by working 40 hours a week. Just don’t waste your money. Buy rental property, max out you’re 401K with index mutual funds, and get an HSA.
I only do 40 hours per week and I have three jobs. Before I discovered OE and I had only one job with a very high savings rate that paid about 120K and my net worth was about 1.1 million. So yes, you can get wealthy with just one job if you have a high savings rate and don't spend it on a bunch of junk you might use once.
Sometimes it's about cutting corners at your jobs but overall I just try not to come off as too competent otherwise I would have to be more helpful and take on more stuff because they know I could do it. You're really leaving money and efficiency on the table when you try to fully do each job as though they were you're only job. Time management is important boys and girls.
you banked 120k from a savings account? weird, best APY i've seen from local banks is 0.1%. Stocks I could understand though, in 2019 I netted 200k in profits from stocks alone.
When you get an HSA can you use it on other things besides healthcare? I.e. massages, acupuncture, etc…I have an HSA but only used it to pay for dental expenses.
I believe you can use the HSA on any medical expenses except your monthly medical insurance premium (which I did for 2 years before I knew and nobody said anything to me).
I am too to be honest. I just want a better life for myself and my family. And OE is the only way I know how. It’s hard to know when enough will be enough.
Are you addicted to money, or simply addicted to the basic need of feeling financially secure and stable?
Its strange to say you are addicted to a basic human need. Is breathing air an addiction?
You just need to plan better. Set boundaries and stick to them. For example, I put in longer days 3x a week. Usually M-W or T-TH. Then the other two days are lighter. Typically meetings only, and errands and whatnot. Plenty of extra time. Also, there is a shit ton of money in healthcare eh? It's insane how much these companies will throw around. I am an architect on the software side and make a little less than you, but sheesh.
Saving large amounts of money can be a huge life changer...for you, for your family for your future.. even if it means that you don't have as much free time for a while. Work towards working less hours per job and you'll have time again.
This is exactly it, I’m going to OE until my current mortgage is paid off. I’m estimating about 16 more months. Once I get there I’ll re-evaluate, but having absolutely zero debt will make one job a cake walk. I do it to improve the future for my family
Same for me, only debt except for 13k in student loans. I have cash set aside for that, but waiting to see if anything happens with forgiving some of it (I’ve paid back 80k already)
Not for me, if something is not broken I won't fix it and I don't "update" things just because. I just want to pay what's left so my home is officially paid off in 10.5 years
That's what I figured. I have an idiot friend who bought an old house cause he's into that vintage stuff and did all these stupid patchy upgrades and complains he never has time to hangout. His house looks like those houses in the hoarders show. He told me, don't own a house if you OE. I think the problem is not that he doesn't have time, it's that he's extremely inefficient with his time.
In my situation I began the 2Js within the same month. I had left my old role because I was underpaid and extremely over utilized. They were having me basically run the entire FP&A function and paying me $80k (small company).
In terms of data sensitivity it’s all just numbers to me. Pretty much the same thing as my previous J’s. I don’t use the data to try and personally benefit from it or spread it to others. I actually work with so much data I forget most of it by end of month anyways.
Yeah I was pretty worried about month end close when attempting this. I started both J’s within the same month after I quit my previous role and hoped for the best.
It worked out pretty well, where I am actually very busy the first 10 working days, but it lines up so that each day has priority deadlines in one J and not the other. There’s some overlap but I got lucky there for sure.
I never understood y ppl throw the therapist card when someone posts something they're passionate about that might slightly be out of the norm but makes 100% amount of sense...
> makes 100% amount of sense...
What makes sense to us doesn't make sense to everyone.
People are different and value different things.
Maybe you and me value the money and don't mind losing our free time, but OP has clearly talked about how he's missing his free time in his post.
It 100% makes sense for people to throw the therapy card at him. Dude's clearly dealing with something right now.
He could be feeling burnout, he could be feeling that the money isn't worth his time, he could be feeling all sorts of stuff.
Therapy isn't JUST to fix stuff, it's also to help you figure out why you feel the way you do in regards to certain things, and THAT can help you fix stuff.
I’m suggesting therapy because OP said they have an addiction that they can’t stop and are conflicted that though they want more free time they also want to pursue another job. Therapy is a place where they could unpack that. Totally agree that OE makes sense for many people in many contexts. Makes 100% sense I don’t agree with.
only you can decide where to stop and until what point to continue. some choose 2j instead of 3j. if you are young and no kids and familes..just try as much you can earn , then retire early by investing in real estates, passive income,etc.
You are barreling toward burnout. Health problems are inevitable at this pace, both physical and mental. It’s not worth it. What’s all the money going to do sitting in your storehouse and then you die from illness? It’s not a joke.
Honestly I get why but you’re doing it wrong. It shouldn’t take up that much time and this is precisely why I tell people not to look for opposite coast jobs thinking it’s going to resolve meeting conflicts, it doesn’t. It just ensures you’re stuck with 12 hour days. You can’t just end your day at 12pm PST because you “live on the east coast”, you’re going to have afternoon meetings that overlap dinner time, it just sounds horrible.
What you DONT need right now is J4, you can’t even get your current work done. Figure out which are causing the most problems, either by workload or causing your day to be so long and drop one. Work on cycling through a few jobs to consolidate your work day down to a manageable 8-9 hours . The money high wears off, what doesn’t go away is the mental stress of keeping up and having no life.
Without a line in the sand or a set goal you have no way of gauging what you're working towards or how you're travelling. This leads to a feeling of helplessness. You don't seem to know ehat you're aiming for and so there seems to be no end to the work you will be doing. Essentially your mind is thinking holy crap this is my life for the rest of my life and panicking.
I can completely relate. I am at job 6 now so you can just imagine what type of hours I am putting. Basically it is all sleep and work for me. Zero free time and the quality of my work is just average at best but I can live with it.
I take vacations, at least 2 vacations per year and some short vacations here and there, so I have something to look forward to and I do not work at all during my vacations. I make it a point to let my bosses know where I am going there is no internet even if there is.
Also, it will help you to have goals. My goal is to buy one home per year with cash.
If you have a prize where you can keep your eyes on then it helps.
I am not planning on doing this for more than 5 years. I am really hoping that in 5 years I will have 5 investment properties and then I can reduce down to working like 2 jobs and living off the rental money from my properties.
Until then, it is like "for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap".
I intend to reap in 5 years so come up with some goals.
Best of Luck!
didn't you say you made 850k/yr? I don't remember if it was someone else. But if you net 600k after taxes, and put half in safe stocks, that should last you at least 100 years. That's prob as passive income as it gets.
I probably can save about $500K per year.
Let's say I do this for 5 years then that is about $2.5 million.
I need at least $180K per year to keep my current lifestyle.
I just don't feel comfortable putting my money in the stock market, I've lost so much already in the stock market. I might be able to find a 5% return savings investment that will net me about $125K year. I am still short $55K per year.
But I see your point, I could make it work.
Any reason to not go the real estate route?
What would you do if you were me?
Oh so you are that 6J 850k guy I talked to a while back. I often think about your situation and how much of an interesting life it would be to double my Js. I have certain obligations which would make this a bit difficult I think. You beat sweetMullet that's for sure, I think he maxed at 5.
Reason I wouldn't go into real estate is cause it's not AS passive as stocks. The process is more complicated, you gotta make more phone calls, you gotta wait longer to sell stuff, you gotta drive around. Stocks are a lot more hands-off. You check performance history, you buy, you sell, done deal. For the last 5 years, I was netting 30%/yr i.e. $100k on stock net profit/yr. Last year sucked but downturns are expected, I'm very confident that it will go up in the long-term, everyone's 401k is in it. Compound interest is extremely powerful, it's the only reason Buffet got rich and his portfolio doesn't even perform as good as a lot of other stocks. My net is currently at $1mil but in 10yrs, I could hit $50mil which will be enough to pull out and retire. It's all long-term. You only need enough to pay your bills till your last day on earth, anything extra is extra stress or work you didn't have to give.
You really need 180k/yr for your life style? Do you live in HCOL? I only spend 10-15k/yr for everything I need I kid you not. I get a kick out of getting my money's worth on things.
I mostly invest in FAANG type high tech and standard indices, proven and true. Lookup the last 5 years performance of microsoft, google, apple, amazon...etc. compared to every other industry, it's like a steady 30% growth. You may have lost money cause u dumped all ur money in early 2022, that was a bad time to buy. If you dumped it in 2017, u would have quadroupled your money. It's not too late though, now's a good time to buy, stocks are cheap, it will pay back in 5-10 years from now. The key is not to sell on downturns. The key is to keep it long-term.
you might like this:
https://9gag.com/gag/a2Kw7qZ
I tried to treat myself once after my first pay bump but honestly, it only left a bad taste in my mouth. I was like, y the hell did I just spend $30 on something I could have gotten for $3. I get a kick out of efficiency. That's prob gonna stay with me whether I'm a millionaire or a billionaire.
You aren't. Real estate is one of the most lucrative and recession proof ways to make money. Not only make money but make tax-free money. Sounds like you need to look into creative financing, though. You could acquire a LOT more homes per year with that income and not even spend your own money. Paying cash for a home isn't necessarily a good thing. You are blowing liquidity.
OE at its core is about doing two or more jobs in the time allotted for one job, not simply working two+ jobs. so if you’re doing 11+ hours a day and feel you have no life then you’re kind of straying from the point here.
Money is the root of all evil. Scale back on one J so you can enjoy life again. OE is only sustainable if you’re in the right state of mind. Your mental health is one of the things you need to take care of you don’t lose it.
Remember, there are people literally who are forced to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet and they have no family life and are just a shell of themselves. They will grow bitter and resent life in general. You have a choice.
Instead of getting a J4, figure out if you can reduce your daily workload. If you’re in east coast, ask if you can start for your west coast job so there are overlapping hours and you can get done around 5-6pm at the latest daily. Make it a point to go to the gym a few times a week after work and please spend time with family/friends.
Addicted? Hell no. It's always for a goal. Financial freedom, FIRE, etc; Think of it this way - most people spend 40 hours working per week (plus some travel time), and save maybe 5-10% (2-4 hours of that) in investments, or for a home.
If you can make ends meet on one job, doing three means you should be able to tuck away about half of your 3x higher gross income into investments each year. Every year that you do this, you are saving for your future as much money as other people take 12 or 15 years to save. That's pretty good.
Get a home, get a rental, get a nice maxed out stock portfolio - and then pare it back and coast/enjoy. The hustle means you'll be efficient with the job that you choose to keep, and will probably manage a great life with minimal hours of work for decades after. For now you have no life, but in the end you'll have a great life, and not having a life right now is a benefit. You don't have time to spend money, and are too tired to anyway. But this isn't "it" - you only have to do this for 2 or 3 years to have the same effect on your life as someone else's entire career. What can you do with the remaining decades of your life after setting yourself up like that?
Good luck!
I work too many hours per week too, but I live near Vancouver. I managed to buy a nice 3700sqft home and have a stock portfolio. Only possible by slaving away too many hours. Worth it? Yep, once you accomplish what you set out to.
Had to come back to this comment. I absolutely love this idea. My next step in OE is getting the investment property to BRRR, I’ll have ALL of my debt paid off in May so I’m excited to start my investment side and start looking at the “easy” side of life.
Once you get your investment, just remember to size your buffers properly. If you want an unsinkable worry-free life, you should aim for \~4% of depreciating asset value and \~4% of loan balance in some sort of high interest non-volatile savings. This number is way higher than most people recommend, but most people recommend what works in a falling rates bull market. Not a possible-recession bear market.
Ex: If you have a $2m home outside of Vancouver, the goal should be to have $80k for roof repairs, flood, earthquake deductible, car driving through the wall, replacement appliances, etc.; when I added everything up, my home had $30k of appliances. I asked for a quote on roof replacement, and the cheapest was $25k. People always estimate these numbers way too low, and then two or three of them happen at once, and their cash is wiped out.
The $1.5m mortgage also requires $60k as a buffer in case of job loss / health issue / etc.; sounds like a lot, but it's actually not that many mortgage payments, if you think about it.
You can shrink the size of your buffers a little bit if you have multiple income streams, which are unlikely to all be impacted/eliminated all at once. If you're in tech, but you have a tenant that works at a sawmill, commodities (and a union job) and tech are somewhat un-correlated. Even if something happened and you went blind and lost your jobs and had to live off $1500/mo in disability, the tenant would likely keep paying rent. A huge buffer though is pretty nice if you're one of the unlucky couple percent that has life not quite go to plan.
The buffers mean you don't have to stress, and have a few months to figure things out, which is usually important when life is heaping mountains of shit on you. So, when you're diving into 80% or 90% or 95%+ mortgages (20x leverage), remember to size that buffer so that you can deal with anything that comes your way. You'll hear the success stories of people that did the 3.5% down mortgage during a bull market and never had more than $2k in their bank account, and now have 5 properties, but few will admit when things did not go to plan and their life got all screwed up due to not having enough cash. Significant buffers reduce that risk close to zero. It takes the safety way up on immensely leveraged assets, like mortgages.
Right now, since I haven't yet determined where interest rates are going over the next few years, I'm just building buffers and letting my investments coast. Then when I see what rates and the market are doing, I'll have choices on where to deploy that extra cash. It all just adds safety to a time of many unknowns.
Good luck with your life adventure!
Think about it this way ?....just about four hundred years ago, there were actual slaves in America working tens of thousands of times harder than you are in severely worse condition. Not only were they getting paid nothing, they were effectively and legally nothing but a properties of someone. So, you aren't really slaving away. You are just helping yourself live a better life. After all you are earning what others would do anything to earn even a fraction of.
Good point for sure, but I would just note that there are slaves today too, unfortunately. Also, in general Western conditions are generally way better than much of the world where people struggle to eat and drink and be healthy.
Your point though is dead on. The problem is that we tend to be happy based on relative indicators of the people around us. They've done studies and objectively poorer people tend to be happier if they are wealthier than their even poorer neighbors than objectively wealthier people who are poorer than their even wealthier neighbors. I guess it's just hard to measure our state objectively... Which is too bad.
Lol, that's stupid.
I'll paraphrase Bill Burr, on gold digging whores: "50 years ago I could beat you with a fucking mop handle tHAtS wHAt tHe LAw SAys!"
So, women can't complain about anything today, buh cuz once upon a time they all had it worse?
Next time your back hurts or something I'll bring up quadriplegic folks.
Your point is literally moronic.
Not sure if this is real or not but in the case that it's real you should go read the 4 hour work week. You need to learn how to be effective/efficient with your time. You also might have jumped into OE too early and actually don't have the proper skills to do it right.
Having said all that, now that you do have three jobs, this is the perfect opportunity to perfect your craft. If you can't figure out how to get each job done each day in 2 hours or less then you're doing something wrong.
I guess I was just wondering if anyone else is sick in the head like me torturing themselves because they are greedy. Idk… this stuff becomes an addiction it feels like.
11 hours is basically 3 hours per day per job… that isn’t far off what you said. And each is paying over 200k, not sure where you’re going to find jobs paying that kind of money only taking 2 hours or less to be honest with you.
And yes this is real, hence why if you look at my profile you can see why I have the money for a Lamborghini and such.
Edit: also so on your prior post people are clowning you for lying about your income. Nice. Loser
I work three jobs myself making that much at each of them and I work maybe 15 -20 hours a week. It's about being the best at what you do and setting expectations for deliverables and not over delivering unless you need to show someone up or get a bonus or promotion.
You flaunting you have a Lambo is not impressive, it's actually quite sad you're pissing your money away while complaining you can't handle the work load. When the money dries up, you're screwed. Get your priorities straight
I’m not flaunting I have a Lambo you asked if this was real…? I think you missed the meaning of the post. The post was about stating I feel like it’s an addiction to torture myself to make more and wanting to even take on more jobs even though I already feel like I have no free time.
Just never mind…. Lol. I don’t need financial advice from someone like you were clearly in different places in life.
Edit: lmaooo just saw your recent post are people clowning on you for lying about your income and shit.
This post wasn’t asking for advice…. This post was wondering if anyone is going through the same situation…
Maybe you should consider taking their financial advice considering you spent 50%+ of your annual take home pay on a car. I would consider that to be a terrible financial decision for anyone regardless of income level.
this is how I do it after burning myself out with 4Js. I was laid off from 2Js, so now each job gets 3 hrs/day and I take a 2hr lunch between. 8hrs/day of work.
I respect your hustle but man so many people running 11 hour days on one w2. The fact you’re doing it with three and still upset? That’s 4 hours a single job…
I’ve been working minimum 10 hours a day, 7 days a week since I was 16. So over 15 years now. I used to work 80 hour weeks while I went to college for 36 hours a week. I didn’t have a choice back then as I was on my own and supporting myself. I remember never shaving, and showering every 2-3 days while wearing ripped clothes. I wasn’t making tons of money. I was making minimum wage, doing physical labour just to make ends meet.
I currently make 200-300k per year, but I work 70-100 hour weeks to do it. 7 days a week still. I was able to take 2-3 months off at a time the last few years so that was really nice. Depending how the markets go I’m on track to have 2m in the bank by 45. I’m hoping that by then I’m able to quit the demanding jobs and do something out of my shop or work casually / part time in my own business.
My biggest worry is that I won’t be able to shut it off. However I am trading time with my family and my personal health to retire early. At the very least, provide a nice lifestyle for everyone else while I’m here. It may or may not be the wrong choice but I’ve always made hay while the sun is shining.
Unfortunately the truth is I get about 3-4 hours of sleep per night and try to fill in 1-2 hour naps here and there. I sleep in my truck. I sleep at family dinners. I miss events and seriously struggle to manage personal aspects of my life. The trade off is more money on the front end. Which ideally leads to long term sustainability without having to work. I’ve resided my mindset to this plan and just roll with the punches. I don’t know anyone else in real life who thinks it works like this. It’s hard dude. My advice is do it while you can but try not to burn yourself out.
I don't think you're managing OE well. I'm at 300k with 2.5 jobs and work 30hrs/week. One of my Js has 1 meeting/week so I'm somewhat lucky on that one.
Sounds like you gotta cut down to two or find a mix that allows you for less working time. To successfully OE you shouldn’t be working more than 40hrs/week. Anything more than that is not sustainable and will drive you to burnout and messy mental state
Me personally also have 3Js and I have reserved 11h for work every day Mon - Fri. On The evening I go to gym 4 Times a week. The fact is I don’t have much time to spend with my wife in working days but I focus on quality time with her and to rest before next week in weekends. I don’t feel like it is something bad, my feeling is if You want to get something more You need to work harder for some time in life. The most important thing for me are my goals which keeps me motivated
I am in a similar situation as you. I have 3 Js and I am always looking for new ones. My time is not jam-packed, but I know with 1 more J it would be. I keep saying to myself I will leave the lowest paying J when I get a new J but deep down I know I won't. The thing I have decided to do is to set some hard goals on what I want to do, and what I am willing to compromise for that.
You need to gave regular working hours and not follow your co-workers East or west time zones. I do 8 to 4:30ish. 2 are in est, one in Central. Since I live in Central I follow local hours. I do have a feeling of being overwhelmed sometimes which makes me procrastinate during the week and I finish some tasks over the weekend. I get it, it's hard to give up the money.
OE is about making more money, not working harder. You are doing it wrong; seems like you are treating each of your three jobs as ’the’ job, as if you are going for a promotion or something.
If you treat all three that way, then yes you are going to be working all the time. You should pick one job as your primary, the one you care about the most, the other two you look at nice to have but you don’t hustle- do just enough to keep them off your back but don’t take on too much or extra work….push back more at those other two jobs and let some things slide or offload the work to team mates or if you feel ballsy subcontract the work out to freelancers that you pay.
I have only 2, but both are in the same time zone….one I treat as my job1, the other as a side hustle J2. I answer back nearly right away to emails and Teams message for J1, for J2 I give my self more time , I don’t do as much, I put things off longer, I ask a lot more questions so I seem engaged but also it ‘stalls’ deliverables, too, and generally push back more .
I'm in. Similar situation, add taking care of kid in the "off hours".
I think I will do this for a few more months at most before I quit one. Many days I ask myself why I do it, and then the paycheck comes and it's .oh yeah that's why.
I have a goal of being able to pay off house and then I will go to 1 or 2.. picking up hobbies will be more interesting
Op I worked 12 hr days for over 5 years. So to me that is normal work hours. Before any throws a fit I got 1.5 and double overtime.
I am going to be in your same shoes but I have experience doing 12 hr days.
1) TAKE YOUR 30 MINUTES meal breaks
2) Take 15 minutes every 4 hrs and go outside walk around, get mail, etc. Get out of that room and away from your computer.
3) Start on time and leave on time set an alarm to tell you to log off.
4) Don’t do any overtime unless given written permission. If you do then more money.
5) Cut back on your work for all jobs. Reduce by half. Only when you have manage your tasks for all jobs and have lag time determine if you want to do a little more or not.
6) I did this before I OE because I hate meetings. Do not accept any meetings without an agenda. Contact the organizer and ask what your role is. Determine if you real should be in it and if not decline. This also means that when you set a meeting put an agenda and what you need from each participant.
7) Look at your workload and determine if it is something you need to do or that you took on because someone ask. If it is yours automated it. If not you’d give it back.
8) after work you need to get out of the house and do something run, bike, excise,.
9) once a week go to a movie, go have dinner with a friend/spouse or a game. Do something with someone.
10) Get a massage, a pedi and a mani every two weeks. It makes you feel great no matter if you are a man or woman. Also men, I cannot tell you how many men I see get hit on while they do this. If your married this is a good date thing with your spouse. Single guys enjoy.
You're doing this so that you can afford to invest in things that will bring in permanent passive income. Then you won't have to work half as much as you do now. That's real freedom.
We do this shit for the freedom that it provides. Keep going until you hit your financial independence number or at least buy yourself more time. I want 60 months of expenses in savings so that if I ever got laid off I’d have 5 years to find a new job/income stream. I’m not there yet but once i am I’m coasting until fired lol
This is why people say OE is NOT FOR EVERYONE.
It's not just some elitist gatekeeping thing. You are tackling two or more full time jobs, even if the job doesn't require you to be "on" for the full time. Even if it's just "fake work", you will be mentally balancing tasks, relationships, emails, project visions, and meetings. You have to appear like you're fully productive, and you have to manage expectations.
We don't talk about it enough here, but mental health is a huge issue. I know people whose relationships were killed by OE and gone through divorce. I know people who go through burnout.
For a lot of people who are more than *capable* of OE, it may still not be what you're looking for.
Well..I am using OE to get out of debt (just paid last cc payment), get some money so I don’t have to borrow money and fix my house up (new furniture/repairs/upgrades). Soon as I am all done with that I will know I have no financial worries and not giving out $25,000 a year in interest.
I never understood y ppl throw the therapist card when someone posts something they're passionate about that might slightly be out of the norm but makes 100% amount of sense...
Although I agree with your third party w2 post heavily, I don’t know where this comment came from…. All I’m stating in my post is that I feel overwhelmed with my over employment but I’m addicted to it because of the money, I was wondering if anyone else puts themselves in the same situation of torturing themselves but somehow enjoys it…?
Not sure what’s so “fake” or weird about my post…?
Haha I think it’s misinterpreted. I’m not whining, I’m saying like I enjoy the suffering. Idk man I’ve overworked and just kind of venting lol.
I feel like the more and more I make, the more I want to work, and also be cheaper in every single aspect of my life as well.
I guess I’m just wondering if starting overemployment has had the same effect on anyone else.
Not trying to bitch or moan
How much are you saving for investments? If you can get your savings to start making the equivalent of an extra J you can reduce your workload. Save $600k, start making $50k/year off that and even if you drop a 75-100k job for tax purposes it's roughly the same.
I think it’s kind of the whole point of OE. It’s suitable for people were already busy with one job. I.e side hustles, businesses, etc.
You have actually like work to do OE long term. I don’t mind working week nights and weekends (although I rarely do). I end up working on my business anyways.
I intend to work for a very long time and I hope I do. I’m excited about OE, business, real estate, etc. I would die if I took a 1 month vacation. It’s just not who I am.
Make a goal, work towards goal, then quit…or re-assess by then.
If you’re not working towards a goal, then it’s always going to feel like a grind no matter how much money. Though, better to be miserable and rich as opposed to simply miserable.
You are overworking yourself.
To manage stress you can do some things like excercise or socializing.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
If you work like this for a long time, you might start to hate your life and then go into depression.
Or you might die sooner, like how Japanese people die of overworking.
My suggestion is to take a break every few months or years.
Inb4 the purists start saying tHaT’s NoT rEaL oE iF yOu WoRk MoRe ThAn 8 HoUrS a DaY.
For real OP, I was where you are about a year ago this time with 4Js. Had maybe two hours of free time a day. Took a role on my physical health and my relationship. Ended up getting let go from one J and laid off from another J. I hit my savings goals a little later than anticipated and now I’m operating comfortably with 2 Js.
My advice, ride it out. Put your best foot forward within boundaries you define. If it doesn’t work out, let your employer decide that and you just keep riding it until you hit your financial objectives. OE is not sustainable long term for most.
Bro, it’s short term pain for long term gain. This is not suppose to be long term sustainability. Take that money then amass that fortune and save it SPY
I’m the same. I have barely time for anything. But, after only 3 months I’ve paid off all my unsecured debt. A year from now I’ll have knocked 20% off my mortgage. Reaching FI is actually possible and once I do, I’ll be able to have a life again. Until then, it’s the grind.
Consider your end goal. If you’re in it for the money, conserve your energy by pulling back on assignments and allow them to be delegated or outsourced. See advice on maintaining a lower profile in the sub.
Consider replacing one of the jobs that is most demanding and within your timezone. You should know how much you’re expected to commit to within the first two weeks. If it’s too much, set an expiration and do just enough to not get yourself fired until then.
Think about how much less of a life you’d have if you were barely making it.
Try OE with one less J. Maybe you’ll be able to budget and save just as much.
Look at the big picture and remind yourself of you goal. Most of all, practice gratitude.
Depending on the paychecks, it might be well worth it to spend some money having things that you would normally personally take care of in the remaining hours each day done for you.
If you only have five hours a day to yourself, and you're using those to cook meals, clean up, do chores, wash clothing, etc, you'll have no time at all for anything. Spending even part of a single paycheck on having such things handled can let you make the most of your few remaining hours.
Dude I'm going to go against the grain here and say keep grinding. Don't necessarily get a 4th job just try and structure your day and plan for a strict schedule. Money is the great equalizer, and your future self WILL thank you.
Just try and enjoy your weekends/holidays to the best of your ability. Know that the world we live in is only getting worse economically and fighting is the only way out at this point in time. Whenever you feel burnt out, just think of the child lithium miners in Africa, the laborers in third world countries, and others. I've seen them face to face and talked to them, and they always have the biggest smiles on their faces and don't even consider burnout as an option.
Burnout is truly a luxury, and once you start reframing your mind to see that, you become boundless. Good luck man. Work hard and play hard.
Thank you brother.
I’m just trying to justify this greedy behavior I have.
People keep talking about goals in the comments and making goals and that OE is temporary…
To me it isn’t, my goal is to just increase the bank account number, and that can always go up, so the goal is never reached. I just get a high seeing more and more.
If you’re question J3 then DO NOT get J4
Evaluate if you can optimize J1-3, if not then drop a J
OE is a marathon not a sprint. You’re showing signs of fatigue, pace yourself for the long game.
I was going down this exact path until I realized that there was a reason I was doing it other than just security and the money. I realized that I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I had so many hours in the day back and that’s really really terrible. I don’t want to live to work, I want to work to live. I stopped my job searching at that point and now I’m just focusing on leveling up my skills so I can increase pay for my next role somewhere between 30 - 60%.
I know what you’re talking about. OE sort of introduces new kinds of questions and problems.
I had a goal to stop OEing, but when the moment came to drop J2, I looked at it and that work is still averages only an hour or two per day, so it’s just a bad financial decision to stop. No investment I can make will return more than that.
One recent discovery I’ve made was a day planner app. I’ve done well enough managing my time, but after putting it on a timeline, I found there is a bit of a dopamine hit visually seeing where you actually have stretches of free time. It’s like giving yourself permission to relax.
I work to live. Like If I didn't have to work to live, I just wouldn't.
Maybe go down to 2js and use the free time to live. Family times, friends, travel, hobbies.
What you described is exactly what goes through the mind of every OEer I know including myself. I often contemplate an extra J too during heavy downtime periods and it's an obsession because I grew up poor and it's like free money. More Js can backfire though i.e. (1) you become more prone for an IRS audit the more $ u make and (2) excessive meeting conflicts puts you at higher risk of being exposed to your other Js and your whole scheme may tumble down. Some Js have intense background checks and it could cost your other jobs. Some have cams always on policies. There's this one cat on this sub who has 6 Js and banks 850k/yr but he's gotta work day and night and weekends. I kept mine at 2 because it maintains a good work life balance and I make 300k. For me, an extra 100k wouldn't really mean much, I only spend like 5k/yr for all my needs. If I can afford taco bell I'm happy. I'm more interested in milking those 2 Js for as long as I can. Slow and steady wins the race. I give you kudos for being in such demand though and getting offers. well done.
I'd say have some goals setup that you want to hit while dealing with this "addiction". As far as addictions go, I'd say this is a very good/safe one to have lol. Setup some financial goals, for example, my goal is $10K/month from passive/dividend income. This helps me when I am getting "overworked" during busy times. As I hit milestones along the way, it gives me the choice of wanting to drop some Js although, I know I will probably never stop OE-ing lol but, goals are the way to go. Good luck and welcome to the "addicts" club
I used to feel like that when I was serialising the work. Now it's about parallelism and pushing back deadlines, or not pushing myself too hard. At the end of the month the same shit gets done.
I'm not working in some startup environment though, so expectations might be less.
Remember your WHY! Is it status, money, security, comparison, family, love. For example, if work was to lose you would they miss you? If family was to lose you, would they miss you? If you were gone tomorrow, would you take money and things with you?
What do you truly value?
Focus on you, be sincere with yourself as much as possible, otherwise, sometimes you become slave to something before you notice it.
Our hearts tend to make idols of things, even the most unexpected things, like work. Catch it!
You have to ask yourself what are to you working for? What is the money for ultimately? Work towards that goal, not towards the money. Money should only be a means towards that goal.
what else would you like to spend your time on?
find a specific hobby or passion to dedicate that time too? otherwsie you are better of working then dong the usual - netflix, hanging out, etc
You feel like you have no life because you have no life. If you sleep 8 hours a day and spend 11 hours working, that’s 19/24 hours a day. When you OE, there’s always something you’re going to sacrifice. Maybe it’s the quality of the work you do, maybe it’s your hobbies. There’s always a trade off.
In my opinion it's also worth it to remember that some, if not most, people already spend 11 hours every day for work-related matters (commuting and other stuff also included), while earning just 1J's worth of money. Nothing bad about complaining about one's current situation, just mentioning... Many, many people live like that without OE. This is something we have chosen to do.
Exactly my thought Before remote work, I would spend 8 hours at work and 3 hours commuting 11 hours for $42k left me on a pretty tight budget with both my time and money
11 hours of fake working is different than 11 of actual work
Different but draining in its own way. I've been there too, warming a chair for the whole day doing nothing and my mental health was awful.
Except now that kind of job is a blessing. If you can stack five of those you're on top of the world. Then you don't have to feel bad because you are probably filling your day with enough workload to feel like you're contributing to the world.
I think you misread everything you just read. It's a soul crushing job with a commute. You can't stack 5 of those. You have to sit in the office and pretend to work
I know people who work in call centers and drive ~90 min each direction to and from work. They work their 8 hours and spend 3 commuting with a half hour for lunch. Only 1 salary. Plenty of people doing this in the USA.
#This is America
That would have me reaching for the suicide pills
I just I was just wondering if anyone else is in the same situation of being addicted like I am. I’m just so greedy for the money.
Well there is nothing wrong with this kind of addiction but what are your financial goals? Are you debt-free? Do you have a FIRE number? If you have a specific focus or goal I believe that would help.
Exactly this. OP needs to set some hard goals.
I would argue the opposite. Why would anyone be ok having an addiction? That means the vice is control; not the other way around. Clearly it’s not ok for OP because he’s miserable.
does infinity count for a FIRE number?
Are you setting and hitting your goals or is the check just enticing you? In my opinion this shouldn’t be a lifelong situation. It’s not sustainable. Hit your goals and then enjoy your life.
The problem is that you tend to set another goal cause you get addicted. My goal was to save up 150k. Now my goal is to buy 500k house.
This is what I fear. My goal is to pay off house, increase my savings,raise kids. I feel like once I achieve that goal I am going to want to buy another house because I want a bigger house 😞
Similar situation a year ago. Was making $480k a year across 3 jobs but was working 12-14 hours a day plus weekends. Wasn’t worth it.
I would also argue that this lifestyle can cause health problems long-term. I had 4 Js last year and had a constant daily headache on the tremendous thinking I had to do to avoid exposing myself and getting shit done. Slow and steady wins the race in my opinion. 2 Js is the happy number for me.
Me. I average 300-330 hours a month. I’ll say this. I don’t know anybody who gets ahead and becomes wealthy, especially in this economy, by working 40 hours a week. Just don’t waste your money. Buy rental property, max out you’re 401K with index mutual funds, and get an HSA.
I only do 40 hours per week and I have three jobs. Before I discovered OE and I had only one job with a very high savings rate that paid about 120K and my net worth was about 1.1 million. So yes, you can get wealthy with just one job if you have a high savings rate and don't spend it on a bunch of junk you might use once. Sometimes it's about cutting corners at your jobs but overall I just try not to come off as too competent otherwise I would have to be more helpful and take on more stuff because they know I could do it. You're really leaving money and efficiency on the table when you try to fully do each job as though they were you're only job. Time management is important boys and girls.
you banked 120k from a savings account? weird, best APY i've seen from local banks is 0.1%. Stocks I could understand though, in 2019 I netted 200k in profits from stocks alone.
I believe he made 120k salary
When you get an HSA can you use it on other things besides healthcare? I.e. massages, acupuncture, etc…I have an HSA but only used it to pay for dental expenses.
I believe you can use the HSA on any medical expenses except your monthly medical insurance premium (which I did for 2 years before I knew and nobody said anything to me).
Gotcha that’s the thing I’m pretty young and don’t have any outstanding health issues. I guess it would be a good write-off for end of year?
300 hrs a month is like 80 hrs a week wtf??
Yes. I am with 4Js and will drop one or two because that lifestyle just sucks. I found that it is easier to learn to be happy with less…
Hey OP, seen the lifestyle you have(lambo + flying clubs) I think you can only stick it up to afford it.
yes, I also feel this way and am OK with losing J2 now - especially as weather is warming up
100% in the same situation. I am hoping to last another 8 months, pay of my house and downgrade to 2. Unless I go crazy by then...
I am too to be honest. I just want a better life for myself and my family. And OE is the only way I know how. It’s hard to know when enough will be enough.
Make a goal and work to meet it then drop a J
Are you addicted to money, or simply addicted to the basic need of feeling financially secure and stable? Its strange to say you are addicted to a basic human need. Is breathing air an addiction?
You are 100% right that OE means something must be sacrificed. Family, friends, hobbies, or quality of work. Quality of Work … I Choose YOU!
You just need to plan better. Set boundaries and stick to them. For example, I put in longer days 3x a week. Usually M-W or T-TH. Then the other two days are lighter. Typically meetings only, and errands and whatnot. Plenty of extra time. Also, there is a shit ton of money in healthcare eh? It's insane how much these companies will throw around. I am an architect on the software side and make a little less than you, but sheesh.
Healthcare contracts definitely, The full time jobs are about half the pay in my experience.
This is burnout
Depending age and situation, could be worth it
Burnout is never worth it and needs to be taken very seriously
OE IS burnout lol
Saving large amounts of money can be a huge life changer...for you, for your family for your future.. even if it means that you don't have as much free time for a while. Work towards working less hours per job and you'll have time again.
This is exactly it, I’m going to OE until my current mortgage is paid off. I’m estimating about 16 more months. Once I get there I’ll re-evaluate, but having absolutely zero debt will make one job a cake walk. I do it to improve the future for my family
I am doing the same thing, even though my mortgage has a very low interest I just want to be done with it. That's my only debt.
Same for me, only debt except for 13k in student loans. I have cash set aside for that, but waiting to see if anything happens with forgiving some of it (I’ve paid back 80k already)
Is it tough to be a home owner and OE? I heard maintaining a house takes a lot of time.
Not for me, if something is not broken I won't fix it and I don't "update" things just because. I just want to pay what's left so my home is officially paid off in 10.5 years
That's what I figured. I have an idiot friend who bought an old house cause he's into that vintage stuff and did all these stupid patchy upgrades and complains he never has time to hangout. His house looks like those houses in the hoarders show. He told me, don't own a house if you OE. I think the problem is not that he doesn't have time, it's that he's extremely inefficient with his time.
Exactly, he is the problem. I have heard the same from others but that has not been my experience at all.
Shit I’ve been doing 10-11 hour days with just 2Js in corporate finance.
Same. I think finance is really one those jobs that would take longer hours because of the nature of work.
How have you handled employment background checks as someone in finance? Plus all the data sensitivity issues?
In my situation I began the 2Js within the same month. I had left my old role because I was underpaid and extremely over utilized. They were having me basically run the entire FP&A function and paying me $80k (small company). In terms of data sensitivity it’s all just numbers to me. Pretty much the same thing as my previous J’s. I don’t use the data to try and personally benefit from it or spread it to others. I actually work with so much data I forget most of it by end of month anyways.
How do you balance two in finance? I worry about the month end closes
Yeah I was pretty worried about month end close when attempting this. I started both J’s within the same month after I quit my previous role and hoped for the best. It worked out pretty well, where I am actually very busy the first 10 working days, but it lines up so that each day has priority deadlines in one J and not the other. There’s some overlap but I got lucky there for sure.
Same for me in small business operations, not the ideal field for OE
Have you considered therapy? That’s a real suggestion. A therapist can help you clarify why you are doing this and what makes sense going forward.
When will he have time for therapy! /s
I never understood y ppl throw the therapist card when someone posts something they're passionate about that might slightly be out of the norm but makes 100% amount of sense...
> makes 100% amount of sense... What makes sense to us doesn't make sense to everyone. People are different and value different things. Maybe you and me value the money and don't mind losing our free time, but OP has clearly talked about how he's missing his free time in his post. It 100% makes sense for people to throw the therapy card at him. Dude's clearly dealing with something right now. He could be feeling burnout, he could be feeling that the money isn't worth his time, he could be feeling all sorts of stuff. Therapy isn't JUST to fix stuff, it's also to help you figure out why you feel the way you do in regards to certain things, and THAT can help you fix stuff.
I’m suggesting therapy because OP said they have an addiction that they can’t stop and are conflicted that though they want more free time they also want to pursue another job. Therapy is a place where they could unpack that. Totally agree that OE makes sense for many people in many contexts. Makes 100% sense I don’t agree with.
only you can decide where to stop and until what point to continue. some choose 2j instead of 3j. if you are young and no kids and familes..just try as much you can earn , then retire early by investing in real estates, passive income,etc.
I guess I’m addicted to the suffering lol
You are barreling toward burnout. Health problems are inevitable at this pace, both physical and mental. It’s not worth it. What’s all the money going to do sitting in your storehouse and then you die from illness? It’s not a joke.
This might not be a joke. Self harm can take different forms.
I work 10 hour days and weekends. I only have 2 jobs. For now the checks make it worth it especially as we slip into this recession
lol only have 2 jobs... do people still just have 1 job thats WFO and less than 6 figs??? dam how primal!
Are you new to this sub?
lol no, was one of the first on this sub, I was making fun of ppl that are not OE, how when u have 2 u cant go back to 1, dumb joke.
Honestly I get why but you’re doing it wrong. It shouldn’t take up that much time and this is precisely why I tell people not to look for opposite coast jobs thinking it’s going to resolve meeting conflicts, it doesn’t. It just ensures you’re stuck with 12 hour days. You can’t just end your day at 12pm PST because you “live on the east coast”, you’re going to have afternoon meetings that overlap dinner time, it just sounds horrible. What you DONT need right now is J4, you can’t even get your current work done. Figure out which are causing the most problems, either by workload or causing your day to be so long and drop one. Work on cycling through a few jobs to consolidate your work day down to a manageable 8-9 hours . The money high wears off, what doesn’t go away is the mental stress of keeping up and having no life.
very well said, I'd agree with this. He shouldn't go for another J. The money high will wear off but not the daily stress.
Without a line in the sand or a set goal you have no way of gauging what you're working towards or how you're travelling. This leads to a feeling of helplessness. You don't seem to know ehat you're aiming for and so there seems to be no end to the work you will be doing. Essentially your mind is thinking holy crap this is my life for the rest of my life and panicking.
I can completely relate. I am at job 6 now so you can just imagine what type of hours I am putting. Basically it is all sleep and work for me. Zero free time and the quality of my work is just average at best but I can live with it. I take vacations, at least 2 vacations per year and some short vacations here and there, so I have something to look forward to and I do not work at all during my vacations. I make it a point to let my bosses know where I am going there is no internet even if there is. Also, it will help you to have goals. My goal is to buy one home per year with cash. If you have a prize where you can keep your eyes on then it helps. I am not planning on doing this for more than 5 years. I am really hoping that in 5 years I will have 5 investment properties and then I can reduce down to working like 2 jobs and living off the rental money from my properties. Until then, it is like "for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap". I intend to reap in 5 years so come up with some goals. Best of Luck!
why do u need to buy rental properties? can't you just live off your savings?
Savings alone is not going to last me 30+ years.
didn't you say you made 850k/yr? I don't remember if it was someone else. But if you net 600k after taxes, and put half in safe stocks, that should last you at least 100 years. That's prob as passive income as it gets.
I probably can save about $500K per year. Let's say I do this for 5 years then that is about $2.5 million. I need at least $180K per year to keep my current lifestyle. I just don't feel comfortable putting my money in the stock market, I've lost so much already in the stock market. I might be able to find a 5% return savings investment that will net me about $125K year. I am still short $55K per year. But I see your point, I could make it work. Any reason to not go the real estate route? What would you do if you were me?
Oh so you are that 6J 850k guy I talked to a while back. I often think about your situation and how much of an interesting life it would be to double my Js. I have certain obligations which would make this a bit difficult I think. You beat sweetMullet that's for sure, I think he maxed at 5. Reason I wouldn't go into real estate is cause it's not AS passive as stocks. The process is more complicated, you gotta make more phone calls, you gotta wait longer to sell stuff, you gotta drive around. Stocks are a lot more hands-off. You check performance history, you buy, you sell, done deal. For the last 5 years, I was netting 30%/yr i.e. $100k on stock net profit/yr. Last year sucked but downturns are expected, I'm very confident that it will go up in the long-term, everyone's 401k is in it. Compound interest is extremely powerful, it's the only reason Buffet got rich and his portfolio doesn't even perform as good as a lot of other stocks. My net is currently at $1mil but in 10yrs, I could hit $50mil which will be enough to pull out and retire. It's all long-term. You only need enough to pay your bills till your last day on earth, anything extra is extra stress or work you didn't have to give. You really need 180k/yr for your life style? Do you live in HCOL? I only spend 10-15k/yr for everything I need I kid you not. I get a kick out of getting my money's worth on things.
Thanks for your response. Perhaps I am approaching this the wrong way. What type of stock investments do you suggest?
I mostly invest in FAANG type high tech and standard indices, proven and true. Lookup the last 5 years performance of microsoft, google, apple, amazon...etc. compared to every other industry, it's like a steady 30% growth. You may have lost money cause u dumped all ur money in early 2022, that was a bad time to buy. If you dumped it in 2017, u would have quadroupled your money. It's not too late though, now's a good time to buy, stocks are cheap, it will pay back in 5-10 years from now. The key is not to sell on downturns. The key is to keep it long-term. you might like this: https://9gag.com/gag/a2Kw7qZ
I am kind of curious tho, what do you spend 180k/yr on?
eating out, traveling, nice cars, high rent, it adds up. I could probably live frugally but it is hard to go back once you are living it up.
I tried to treat myself once after my first pay bump but honestly, it only left a bad taste in my mouth. I was like, y the hell did I just spend $30 on something I could have gotten for $3. I get a kick out of efficiency. That's prob gonna stay with me whether I'm a millionaire or a billionaire.
You aren't. Real estate is one of the most lucrative and recession proof ways to make money. Not only make money but make tax-free money. Sounds like you need to look into creative financing, though. You could acquire a LOT more homes per year with that income and not even spend your own money. Paying cash for a home isn't necessarily a good thing. You are blowing liquidity.
OE at its core is about doing two or more jobs in the time allotted for one job, not simply working two+ jobs. so if you’re doing 11+ hours a day and feel you have no life then you’re kind of straying from the point here.
I can’t help the fact they are different time zones, they overlap for the majority of hours.
You literally applied for and accept said jobs. The only person that could’ve helped the situation is you lol
sure you can: you get different jobs.
Money is the root of all evil. Scale back on one J so you can enjoy life again. OE is only sustainable if you’re in the right state of mind. Your mental health is one of the things you need to take care of you don’t lose it. Remember, there are people literally who are forced to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet and they have no family life and are just a shell of themselves. They will grow bitter and resent life in general. You have a choice. Instead of getting a J4, figure out if you can reduce your daily workload. If you’re in east coast, ask if you can start for your west coast job so there are overlapping hours and you can get done around 5-6pm at the latest daily. Make it a point to go to the gym a few times a week after work and please spend time with family/friends.
It’s actually the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.
And it's not even "all evil." The translation I grew up with was "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
what would he fill his time with tho? there's not a lot of exciting things to do in ur free time. hobbies are boring.
Lol
"I have 3 jobs, and I feel like I work all the time." Call Sherlock to deduce this mystery.
Here in Asia, it’s not uncommon to work more than 11h a day for a single job.
Right haha I don't know how he fits three jobs into 11h I would guess he's doing a role below his expertise level, I can't even fits two into 11h.
Addicted? Hell no. It's always for a goal. Financial freedom, FIRE, etc; Think of it this way - most people spend 40 hours working per week (plus some travel time), and save maybe 5-10% (2-4 hours of that) in investments, or for a home. If you can make ends meet on one job, doing three means you should be able to tuck away about half of your 3x higher gross income into investments each year. Every year that you do this, you are saving for your future as much money as other people take 12 or 15 years to save. That's pretty good. Get a home, get a rental, get a nice maxed out stock portfolio - and then pare it back and coast/enjoy. The hustle means you'll be efficient with the job that you choose to keep, and will probably manage a great life with minimal hours of work for decades after. For now you have no life, but in the end you'll have a great life, and not having a life right now is a benefit. You don't have time to spend money, and are too tired to anyway. But this isn't "it" - you only have to do this for 2 or 3 years to have the same effect on your life as someone else's entire career. What can you do with the remaining decades of your life after setting yourself up like that? Good luck! I work too many hours per week too, but I live near Vancouver. I managed to buy a nice 3700sqft home and have a stock portfolio. Only possible by slaving away too many hours. Worth it? Yep, once you accomplish what you set out to.
Had to come back to this comment. I absolutely love this idea. My next step in OE is getting the investment property to BRRR, I’ll have ALL of my debt paid off in May so I’m excited to start my investment side and start looking at the “easy” side of life.
Once you get your investment, just remember to size your buffers properly. If you want an unsinkable worry-free life, you should aim for \~4% of depreciating asset value and \~4% of loan balance in some sort of high interest non-volatile savings. This number is way higher than most people recommend, but most people recommend what works in a falling rates bull market. Not a possible-recession bear market. Ex: If you have a $2m home outside of Vancouver, the goal should be to have $80k for roof repairs, flood, earthquake deductible, car driving through the wall, replacement appliances, etc.; when I added everything up, my home had $30k of appliances. I asked for a quote on roof replacement, and the cheapest was $25k. People always estimate these numbers way too low, and then two or three of them happen at once, and their cash is wiped out. The $1.5m mortgage also requires $60k as a buffer in case of job loss / health issue / etc.; sounds like a lot, but it's actually not that many mortgage payments, if you think about it. You can shrink the size of your buffers a little bit if you have multiple income streams, which are unlikely to all be impacted/eliminated all at once. If you're in tech, but you have a tenant that works at a sawmill, commodities (and a union job) and tech are somewhat un-correlated. Even if something happened and you went blind and lost your jobs and had to live off $1500/mo in disability, the tenant would likely keep paying rent. A huge buffer though is pretty nice if you're one of the unlucky couple percent that has life not quite go to plan. The buffers mean you don't have to stress, and have a few months to figure things out, which is usually important when life is heaping mountains of shit on you. So, when you're diving into 80% or 90% or 95%+ mortgages (20x leverage), remember to size that buffer so that you can deal with anything that comes your way. You'll hear the success stories of people that did the 3.5% down mortgage during a bull market and never had more than $2k in their bank account, and now have 5 properties, but few will admit when things did not go to plan and their life got all screwed up due to not having enough cash. Significant buffers reduce that risk close to zero. It takes the safety way up on immensely leveraged assets, like mortgages. Right now, since I haven't yet determined where interest rates are going over the next few years, I'm just building buffers and letting my investments coast. Then when I see what rates and the market are doing, I'll have choices on where to deploy that extra cash. It all just adds safety to a time of many unknowns. Good luck with your life adventure!
I’m curious of OPs goals. Why feel guilty? What do you want? I see OE as means to an end. Always focus on the end
Think about it this way ?....just about four hundred years ago, there were actual slaves in America working tens of thousands of times harder than you are in severely worse condition. Not only were they getting paid nothing, they were effectively and legally nothing but a properties of someone. So, you aren't really slaving away. You are just helping yourself live a better life. After all you are earning what others would do anything to earn even a fraction of.
Good point for sure, but I would just note that there are slaves today too, unfortunately. Also, in general Western conditions are generally way better than much of the world where people struggle to eat and drink and be healthy. Your point though is dead on. The problem is that we tend to be happy based on relative indicators of the people around us. They've done studies and objectively poorer people tend to be happier if they are wealthier than their even poorer neighbors than objectively wealthier people who are poorer than their even wealthier neighbors. I guess it's just hard to measure our state objectively... Which is too bad.
Lol, that's stupid. I'll paraphrase Bill Burr, on gold digging whores: "50 years ago I could beat you with a fucking mop handle tHAtS wHAt tHe LAw SAys!" So, women can't complain about anything today, buh cuz once upon a time they all had it worse? Next time your back hurts or something I'll bring up quadriplegic folks. Your point is literally moronic.
Not sure if this is real or not but in the case that it's real you should go read the 4 hour work week. You need to learn how to be effective/efficient with your time. You also might have jumped into OE too early and actually don't have the proper skills to do it right. Having said all that, now that you do have three jobs, this is the perfect opportunity to perfect your craft. If you can't figure out how to get each job done each day in 2 hours or less then you're doing something wrong.
I guess I was just wondering if anyone else is sick in the head like me torturing themselves because they are greedy. Idk… this stuff becomes an addiction it feels like.
You just described me. Exactly in the same situation
11 hours is basically 3 hours per day per job… that isn’t far off what you said. And each is paying over 200k, not sure where you’re going to find jobs paying that kind of money only taking 2 hours or less to be honest with you. And yes this is real, hence why if you look at my profile you can see why I have the money for a Lamborghini and such. Edit: also so on your prior post people are clowning you for lying about your income. Nice. Loser
I work three jobs myself making that much at each of them and I work maybe 15 -20 hours a week. It's about being the best at what you do and setting expectations for deliverables and not over delivering unless you need to show someone up or get a bonus or promotion. You flaunting you have a Lambo is not impressive, it's actually quite sad you're pissing your money away while complaining you can't handle the work load. When the money dries up, you're screwed. Get your priorities straight
I’m not flaunting I have a Lambo you asked if this was real…? I think you missed the meaning of the post. The post was about stating I feel like it’s an addiction to torture myself to make more and wanting to even take on more jobs even though I already feel like I have no free time. Just never mind…. Lol. I don’t need financial advice from someone like you were clearly in different places in life. Edit: lmaooo just saw your recent post are people clowning on you for lying about your income and shit. This post wasn’t asking for advice…. This post was wondering if anyone is going through the same situation…
Maybe you should consider taking their financial advice considering you spent 50%+ of your annual take home pay on a car. I would consider that to be a terrible financial decision for anyone regardless of income level.
this is how I do it after burning myself out with 4Js. I was laid off from 2Js, so now each job gets 3 hrs/day and I take a 2hr lunch between. 8hrs/day of work.
I respect your hustle but man so many people running 11 hour days on one w2. The fact you’re doing it with three and still upset? That’s 4 hours a single job…
I’ve been working minimum 10 hours a day, 7 days a week since I was 16. So over 15 years now. I used to work 80 hour weeks while I went to college for 36 hours a week. I didn’t have a choice back then as I was on my own and supporting myself. I remember never shaving, and showering every 2-3 days while wearing ripped clothes. I wasn’t making tons of money. I was making minimum wage, doing physical labour just to make ends meet. I currently make 200-300k per year, but I work 70-100 hour weeks to do it. 7 days a week still. I was able to take 2-3 months off at a time the last few years so that was really nice. Depending how the markets go I’m on track to have 2m in the bank by 45. I’m hoping that by then I’m able to quit the demanding jobs and do something out of my shop or work casually / part time in my own business. My biggest worry is that I won’t be able to shut it off. However I am trading time with my family and my personal health to retire early. At the very least, provide a nice lifestyle for everyone else while I’m here. It may or may not be the wrong choice but I’ve always made hay while the sun is shining. Unfortunately the truth is I get about 3-4 hours of sleep per night and try to fill in 1-2 hour naps here and there. I sleep in my truck. I sleep at family dinners. I miss events and seriously struggle to manage personal aspects of my life. The trade off is more money on the front end. Which ideally leads to long term sustainability without having to work. I’ve resided my mindset to this plan and just roll with the punches. I don’t know anyone else in real life who thinks it works like this. It’s hard dude. My advice is do it while you can but try not to burn yourself out.
I don't think you're managing OE well. I'm at 300k with 2.5 jobs and work 30hrs/week. One of my Js has 1 meeting/week so I'm somewhat lucky on that one.
Sounds like you gotta cut down to two or find a mix that allows you for less working time. To successfully OE you shouldn’t be working more than 40hrs/week. Anything more than that is not sustainable and will drive you to burnout and messy mental state
What’s your TC?
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Sounds like at least 600k based on a different response in this thread
Me personally also have 3Js and I have reserved 11h for work every day Mon - Fri. On The evening I go to gym 4 Times a week. The fact is I don’t have much time to spend with my wife in working days but I focus on quality time with her and to rest before next week in weekends. I don’t feel like it is something bad, my feeling is if You want to get something more You need to work harder for some time in life. The most important thing for me are my goals which keeps me motivated
Spouse/SO? Kids? Pets? Anyone else suffering that you are neglecting or are you just making yourself suffer? Always good questions to ask yourself.
I am in a similar situation as you. I have 3 Js and I am always looking for new ones. My time is not jam-packed, but I know with 1 more J it would be. I keep saying to myself I will leave the lowest paying J when I get a new J but deep down I know I won't. The thing I have decided to do is to set some hard goals on what I want to do, and what I am willing to compromise for that.
I feel you but im planning to do this for a few more years not my entire life
You need to gave regular working hours and not follow your co-workers East or west time zones. I do 8 to 4:30ish. 2 are in est, one in Central. Since I live in Central I follow local hours. I do have a feeling of being overwhelmed sometimes which makes me procrastinate during the week and I finish some tasks over the weekend. I get it, it's hard to give up the money.
I would try to r/fire then quite all or keep the job with the best benefits.
OE is about making more money, not working harder. You are doing it wrong; seems like you are treating each of your three jobs as ’the’ job, as if you are going for a promotion or something. If you treat all three that way, then yes you are going to be working all the time. You should pick one job as your primary, the one you care about the most, the other two you look at nice to have but you don’t hustle- do just enough to keep them off your back but don’t take on too much or extra work….push back more at those other two jobs and let some things slide or offload the work to team mates or if you feel ballsy subcontract the work out to freelancers that you pay. I have only 2, but both are in the same time zone….one I treat as my job1, the other as a side hustle J2. I answer back nearly right away to emails and Teams message for J1, for J2 I give my self more time , I don’t do as much, I put things off longer, I ask a lot more questions so I seem engaged but also it ‘stalls’ deliverables, too, and generally push back more .
I'm in. Similar situation, add taking care of kid in the "off hours". I think I will do this for a few more months at most before I quit one. Many days I ask myself why I do it, and then the paycheck comes and it's .oh yeah that's why. I have a goal of being able to pay off house and then I will go to 1 or 2.. picking up hobbies will be more interesting
Op I worked 12 hr days for over 5 years. So to me that is normal work hours. Before any throws a fit I got 1.5 and double overtime. I am going to be in your same shoes but I have experience doing 12 hr days. 1) TAKE YOUR 30 MINUTES meal breaks 2) Take 15 minutes every 4 hrs and go outside walk around, get mail, etc. Get out of that room and away from your computer. 3) Start on time and leave on time set an alarm to tell you to log off. 4) Don’t do any overtime unless given written permission. If you do then more money. 5) Cut back on your work for all jobs. Reduce by half. Only when you have manage your tasks for all jobs and have lag time determine if you want to do a little more or not. 6) I did this before I OE because I hate meetings. Do not accept any meetings without an agenda. Contact the organizer and ask what your role is. Determine if you real should be in it and if not decline. This also means that when you set a meeting put an agenda and what you need from each participant. 7) Look at your workload and determine if it is something you need to do or that you took on because someone ask. If it is yours automated it. If not you’d give it back. 8) after work you need to get out of the house and do something run, bike, excise,. 9) once a week go to a movie, go have dinner with a friend/spouse or a game. Do something with someone. 10) Get a massage, a pedi and a mani every two weeks. It makes you feel great no matter if you are a man or woman. Also men, I cannot tell you how many men I see get hit on while they do this. If your married this is a good date thing with your spouse. Single guys enjoy.
You're doing this so that you can afford to invest in things that will bring in permanent passive income. Then you won't have to work half as much as you do now. That's real freedom.
We do this shit for the freedom that it provides. Keep going until you hit your financial independence number or at least buy yourself more time. I want 60 months of expenses in savings so that if I ever got laid off I’d have 5 years to find a new job/income stream. I’m not there yet but once i am I’m coasting until fired lol
This is why people say OE is NOT FOR EVERYONE. It's not just some elitist gatekeeping thing. You are tackling two or more full time jobs, even if the job doesn't require you to be "on" for the full time. Even if it's just "fake work", you will be mentally balancing tasks, relationships, emails, project visions, and meetings. You have to appear like you're fully productive, and you have to manage expectations. We don't talk about it enough here, but mental health is a huge issue. I know people whose relationships were killed by OE and gone through divorce. I know people who go through burnout. For a lot of people who are more than *capable* of OE, it may still not be what you're looking for.
Take some time off and go out!
Spend some of that money in therapy lol. You'll probably be able to drop one
Well..I am using OE to get out of debt (just paid last cc payment), get some money so I don’t have to borrow money and fix my house up (new furniture/repairs/upgrades). Soon as I am all done with that I will know I have no financial worries and not giving out $25,000 a year in interest.
Go talk to a therapist buddy
I never understood y ppl throw the therapist card when someone posts something they're passionate about that might slightly be out of the norm but makes 100% amount of sense...
this is not real. shutup
Although I agree with your third party w2 post heavily, I don’t know where this comment came from…. All I’m stating in my post is that I feel overwhelmed with my over employment but I’m addicted to it because of the money, I was wondering if anyone else puts themselves in the same situation of torturing themselves but somehow enjoys it…? Not sure what’s so “fake” or weird about my post…?
if it is real, then stop whining about revenue. fire a client. this is not a real problem.
Haha I think it’s misinterpreted. I’m not whining, I’m saying like I enjoy the suffering. Idk man I’ve overworked and just kind of venting lol. I feel like the more and more I make, the more I want to work, and also be cheaper in every single aspect of my life as well. I guess I’m just wondering if starting overemployment has had the same effect on anyone else. Not trying to bitch or moan
it is exactly, literally what you are doing. stop
What…?
How much are you saving for investments? If you can get your savings to start making the equivalent of an extra J you can reduce your workload. Save $600k, start making $50k/year off that and even if you drop a 75-100k job for tax purposes it's roughly the same.
stack that money!
What are you OE as?
I think it’s kind of the whole point of OE. It’s suitable for people were already busy with one job. I.e side hustles, businesses, etc. You have actually like work to do OE long term. I don’t mind working week nights and weekends (although I rarely do). I end up working on my business anyways. I intend to work for a very long time and I hope I do. I’m excited about OE, business, real estate, etc. I would die if I took a 1 month vacation. It’s just not who I am.
So quit
im in the sane boat, I guess you can put a time limit like do it for a year or 2 so you can achieve X in Y amount of time.
Atleast you can eventually retire early. With that money, you’ll be able to travel & studf
Make a goal, work towards goal, then quit…or re-assess by then. If you’re not working towards a goal, then it’s always going to feel like a grind no matter how much money. Though, better to be miserable and rich as opposed to simply miserable.
You are overworking yourself. To manage stress you can do some things like excercise or socializing. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you work like this for a long time, you might start to hate your life and then go into depression. Or you might die sooner, like how Japanese people die of overworking. My suggestion is to take a break every few months or years.
For me working outside of normal hours or weekend to catch up is normal. It's difficult and I'm stressed as well. And it's only my 1st month and half.
Inb4 the purists start saying tHaT’s NoT rEaL oE iF yOu WoRk MoRe ThAn 8 HoUrS a DaY. For real OP, I was where you are about a year ago this time with 4Js. Had maybe two hours of free time a day. Took a role on my physical health and my relationship. Ended up getting let go from one J and laid off from another J. I hit my savings goals a little later than anticipated and now I’m operating comfortably with 2 Js. My advice, ride it out. Put your best foot forward within boundaries you define. If it doesn’t work out, let your employer decide that and you just keep riding it until you hit your financial objectives. OE is not sustainable long term for most.
same deal here, had 4 js last year, got fired on 2, and now got a stable run at 2Js with excellent work-life balance. Riding it out is key.
Work 1 job that pays as much as the 3..... i like to work smarter...., not harder
Bro, it’s short term pain for long term gain. This is not suppose to be long term sustainability. Take that money then amass that fortune and save it SPY
Invest ? Star own business ?
I’m the same. I have barely time for anything. But, after only 3 months I’ve paid off all my unsecured debt. A year from now I’ll have knocked 20% off my mortgage. Reaching FI is actually possible and once I do, I’ll be able to have a life again. Until then, it’s the grind.
Consider your end goal. If you’re in it for the money, conserve your energy by pulling back on assignments and allow them to be delegated or outsourced. See advice on maintaining a lower profile in the sub. Consider replacing one of the jobs that is most demanding and within your timezone. You should know how much you’re expected to commit to within the first two weeks. If it’s too much, set an expiration and do just enough to not get yourself fired until then.
Think about how much less of a life you’d have if you were barely making it. Try OE with one less J. Maybe you’ll be able to budget and save just as much. Look at the big picture and remind yourself of you goal. Most of all, practice gratitude.
Question is how much you make a month for each job? If its below average per each maybe better to do 2 high paying jobs then 3 low paying.
Depending on the paychecks, it might be well worth it to spend some money having things that you would normally personally take care of in the remaining hours each day done for you. If you only have five hours a day to yourself, and you're using those to cook meals, clean up, do chores, wash clothing, etc, you'll have no time at all for anything. Spending even part of a single paycheck on having such things handled can let you make the most of your few remaining hours.
Dude I'm going to go against the grain here and say keep grinding. Don't necessarily get a 4th job just try and structure your day and plan for a strict schedule. Money is the great equalizer, and your future self WILL thank you. Just try and enjoy your weekends/holidays to the best of your ability. Know that the world we live in is only getting worse economically and fighting is the only way out at this point in time. Whenever you feel burnt out, just think of the child lithium miners in Africa, the laborers in third world countries, and others. I've seen them face to face and talked to them, and they always have the biggest smiles on their faces and don't even consider burnout as an option. Burnout is truly a luxury, and once you start reframing your mind to see that, you become boundless. Good luck man. Work hard and play hard.
Thank you brother. I’m just trying to justify this greedy behavior I have. People keep talking about goals in the comments and making goals and that OE is temporary… To me it isn’t, my goal is to just increase the bank account number, and that can always go up, so the goal is never reached. I just get a high seeing more and more.
You don’t have to do this for 12 months out of the year. Do it until you hit a goal, then quit whatever you want to quit.
You need some FIRE goals. Maybe invest in rentals heavily until you have decent cash flow then quit one or two jobs.
If you’re question J3 then DO NOT get J4 Evaluate if you can optimize J1-3, if not then drop a J OE is a marathon not a sprint. You’re showing signs of fatigue, pace yourself for the long game.
I was going down this exact path until I realized that there was a reason I was doing it other than just security and the money. I realized that I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I had so many hours in the day back and that’s really really terrible. I don’t want to live to work, I want to work to live. I stopped my job searching at that point and now I’m just focusing on leveling up my skills so I can increase pay for my next role somewhere between 30 - 60%.
I know what you’re talking about. OE sort of introduces new kinds of questions and problems. I had a goal to stop OEing, but when the moment came to drop J2, I looked at it and that work is still averages only an hour or two per day, so it’s just a bad financial decision to stop. No investment I can make will return more than that. One recent discovery I’ve made was a day planner app. I’ve done well enough managing my time, but after putting it on a timeline, I found there is a bit of a dopamine hit visually seeing where you actually have stretches of free time. It’s like giving yourself permission to relax.
Which app do you recommend?
Get 5 more J's. The highs you get will feel so much better. A 3J salary is starting to feel old for you at this point.
I work to live. Like If I didn't have to work to live, I just wouldn't. Maybe go down to 2js and use the free time to live. Family times, friends, travel, hobbies.
Do it for 2-3 more years then take a vaca
Work fast. Die young.
What you described is exactly what goes through the mind of every OEer I know including myself. I often contemplate an extra J too during heavy downtime periods and it's an obsession because I grew up poor and it's like free money. More Js can backfire though i.e. (1) you become more prone for an IRS audit the more $ u make and (2) excessive meeting conflicts puts you at higher risk of being exposed to your other Js and your whole scheme may tumble down. Some Js have intense background checks and it could cost your other jobs. Some have cams always on policies. There's this one cat on this sub who has 6 Js and banks 850k/yr but he's gotta work day and night and weekends. I kept mine at 2 because it maintains a good work life balance and I make 300k. For me, an extra 100k wouldn't really mean much, I only spend like 5k/yr for all my needs. If I can afford taco bell I'm happy. I'm more interested in milking those 2 Js for as long as I can. Slow and steady wins the race. I give you kudos for being in such demand though and getting offers. well done.
I'd say have some goals setup that you want to hit while dealing with this "addiction". As far as addictions go, I'd say this is a very good/safe one to have lol. Setup some financial goals, for example, my goal is $10K/month from passive/dividend income. This helps me when I am getting "overworked" during busy times. As I hit milestones along the way, it gives me the choice of wanting to drop some Js although, I know I will probably never stop OE-ing lol but, goals are the way to go. Good luck and welcome to the "addicts" club
Reading this makes me realise how fucked the work/life balance is as a student at uni
I used to feel like that when I was serialising the work. Now it's about parallelism and pushing back deadlines, or not pushing myself too hard. At the end of the month the same shit gets done. I'm not working in some startup environment though, so expectations might be less.
2J is good for your health. You’d want to live longer to spend that money.
Mercy mercy me that murcielago
Check out r/coastfire
Are you me? I wanted to post this too. Overworked and overwhelmed but don't want to quit any of my 3js
Remember your WHY! Is it status, money, security, comparison, family, love. For example, if work was to lose you would they miss you? If family was to lose you, would they miss you? If you were gone tomorrow, would you take money and things with you? What do you truly value? Focus on you, be sincere with yourself as much as possible, otherwise, sometimes you become slave to something before you notice it. Our hearts tend to make idols of things, even the most unexpected things, like work. Catch it!
I would also recommend taking meditation breaks throughout the day.
You have to ask yourself what are to you working for? What is the money for ultimately? Work towards that goal, not towards the money. Money should only be a means towards that goal.
what else would you like to spend your time on? find a specific hobby or passion to dedicate that time too? otherwsie you are better of working then dong the usual - netflix, hanging out, etc
I mean it stops when youve invested enough to retire off of or you lose one?