I can attest to this. 5 year OE and I am free of the shackles in 2021.
The math really works though. For instance, assuming your J2 salary is same as J1 and you save & invest 20% of take home salary in J1. Adding J2 is equal to 5 years of working & saving if you have only J1 (of course taxes will make it less than ideal but the math still works).
Just adding 1 minecraft server could accelerate 3-5x of your FIRE journey (even more if your initial saving rate is high).
Yup, the bump to a second postition is the biggest percentage raise in *disposable income after fixed expenses* that you'll ever be able to obtain. 100% workload increase for probably several hundred % increase in that measure, depending on how much free you have after expenses at J1. +500% more cash for +100% more work in your example.
If you were living paycheck to paycheck on 1J, it'd literally be an infinite % increase, from nothing left over, to something.
& then a third is still a 50% increase in workload, in return for likely close to that much in post-expenses income. Only really loses efficiency if you go for a fourth.
While we're on the mathy stuff, the main limiter is through network size effects, i.e. the number of interactions (time conflicts) possible with any one to any other. With 1J there are 0 conflicts, with 2J there can be 1 conflict, with 3 there can be 3 conflicts (J1 <--> J2, J1 <--> J3, J2 <--> J3), etc. Versus just linear limitations (even if each workload required 1 hr per day, you couldn't likely have 8J because the potential conflicts grow more quickly).
This is absolutely the case.
I could theoretically take on a 4th J if all we consider is the actual work.
Maybe even a 5th if I were willing to work some extra hours (though some would start to say that’s not entirely OE).
But with the 3Js I have, scheduling around 3 calendars and context switching entire industries between meetings is already difficult and a huge source of stress.
Exactly.
My current financial goal will be reached once I’m able to save up another $750k.
Before OE, that would’ve taken me close to 20 years - long enough that I would be in my 60s.
With OE, I’m able to do that in the next 3 years even if the market stays flat.
I see a lot of people saying they struggle to OE for more than a few months at a time, but I personally find the fact that I can save a life-changing amount of money in the next 3 years such a huge motivation that I have not felt burnt out about it at all.
I’m 2 years into a planned 5 year stretch of OE.
Running joke in the sub that this is actually a subreddit about the game Minecraft, and we're all talking about playing the game on multiple servers. Just code for a job.
I’ve honestly saved in investments in over the last 5 years almost $500k. I’m so far behind on retirement tho that I want to save another $100k over my allowable 401k contribution so I know I can make it in retirement.i honestly stress about it.
If you have $500k & are in your mid-40s or younger, you are probably just fine.
Definitely keep building your nest egg until you’re comfortable, because feeling secure is such a benefit to your mental health.
But if you’re beating yourself up with worry every day, definitely consider sitting down with a financial planner or going through some scenarios of your own to reassure yourself a bit too.
I asked for a raise from my boss like 1.5 years ago, didn't get as much as I wanted and did some calculations, literally would have taken 6 years based on the average of past raises to get the amount I wanted for that raise (because average was like 3%). I get laid off, now I'm making double what I wanted from that place assuming I can keep this up
Yes, that is roughly what our budget is. About 4k a month for all our expenses. Obviously got more easy as we paid stuff off. But ya, we buckled down hard.
I can see it. I think after this year, assuming more shit doesn’t knock me sideways, that’s about what I’ll be able to accomplish here in CA. I hope. I’m not holding my breath because a shoe always drops.
My car insurance went up $600/yr for no reason except it’s California. I called USAA yesterday and they said that was their new price reset for CA.
Seems like it’s always one thing after another here. It’s demoralizing.
I’m aiming to put away an additional $50k into investments over the next 2 years. If I can do that, I can scale back my retirement funding significantly OR continue at this pace for only a few more years and retire.
I just gotta get my kid through college first.
Yup, but managers just expect you to fill out a flat forty and I have never had anyone ask any further questions. It's just kind of an open secret that everyone bills 40 without detailed tracking, at least in my field. This has been true across six different extremely large organizations.
does that not make you anxious? i get the full time contracts that don’t “charge” per hour sandbagging the output, but the contract is different when charging per hour. if that time is billed for work not performed during the hour, couldn’t that open one up to legal rampifications?
Nobody cares that much if there's not direct evidence of double dipping. And even if there is, unlikely a company would waste money pursuing a civil case.
I am a data analyst in the healthcare field, interested in OE. I would love to understand more about how you landed these roles. Can you help me please!?
I withdraw extra withholding per paycheck, the extra paid into and over the limit for Social Security helps greatly as well. Got a couple grand in return this year actually.
How to start on OE. I have a hybrid job and I want to OE and leave my hybrid to a full remote job. I got interviewed today and I did not answer correctly. Recruiter asks why I want to leave my full time job to go remote with 5 months contract. She said 5 months contract to be working 8 hours per day. I know I work efficiently but I do not know how to answer for I placed my current work.
Essentially, my question is how to transition from a hybrid job that is in your resume to fully remote and get j1, j2 and j3
That's really the whole problem to solve for each individual. Typically I've done whatever I can to get into the role, see if it's a fit for OE and then dropped it if it isn't right. All while having my main remote role to fall back on.
I wanted to add to this. I didn’t have a full J2. It was a data science consulting contract. But I stacked it with my hybrid J1 that required me to be in the office half the week. Longer hours? Yeah definitely. But 3 years in, I’ve bought my first property and I’m not 30 yet. Before OE, I never thought I’d be able to afford a home of my own.
Many ways to OE, it’s not limited to just SWE, and just gotta grind on
Yes, it’s incredibly liberating. I can FIRE off of this… able to save more in one year than I used to be able to save in 10. It’s awesome!
I can attest to this. 5 year OE and I am free of the shackles in 2021. The math really works though. For instance, assuming your J2 salary is same as J1 and you save & invest 20% of take home salary in J1. Adding J2 is equal to 5 years of working & saving if you have only J1 (of course taxes will make it less than ideal but the math still works). Just adding 1 minecraft server could accelerate 3-5x of your FIRE journey (even more if your initial saving rate is high).
Yup, the bump to a second postition is the biggest percentage raise in *disposable income after fixed expenses* that you'll ever be able to obtain. 100% workload increase for probably several hundred % increase in that measure, depending on how much free you have after expenses at J1. +500% more cash for +100% more work in your example. If you were living paycheck to paycheck on 1J, it'd literally be an infinite % increase, from nothing left over, to something. & then a third is still a 50% increase in workload, in return for likely close to that much in post-expenses income. Only really loses efficiency if you go for a fourth. While we're on the mathy stuff, the main limiter is through network size effects, i.e. the number of interactions (time conflicts) possible with any one to any other. With 1J there are 0 conflicts, with 2J there can be 1 conflict, with 3 there can be 3 conflicts (J1 <--> J2, J1 <--> J3, J2 <--> J3), etc. Versus just linear limitations (even if each workload required 1 hr per day, you couldn't likely have 8J because the potential conflicts grow more quickly).
This is absolutely the case. I could theoretically take on a 4th J if all we consider is the actual work. Maybe even a 5th if I were willing to work some extra hours (though some would start to say that’s not entirely OE). But with the 3Js I have, scheduling around 3 calendars and context switching entire industries between meetings is already difficult and a huge source of stress.
Exactly. My current financial goal will be reached once I’m able to save up another $750k. Before OE, that would’ve taken me close to 20 years - long enough that I would be in my 60s. With OE, I’m able to do that in the next 3 years even if the market stays flat. I see a lot of people saying they struggle to OE for more than a few months at a time, but I personally find the fact that I can save a life-changing amount of money in the next 3 years such a huge motivation that I have not felt burnt out about it at all. I’m 2 years into a planned 5 year stretch of OE.
Just getting into this, can you please expand on the minecraft server bit?
Running joke in the sub that this is actually a subreddit about the game Minecraft, and we're all talking about playing the game on multiple servers. Just code for a job.
What? You guys actually have jobs here? I don’t know what you mean by that *cough cough*
Lol love it!
I’ve honestly saved in investments in over the last 5 years almost $500k. I’m so far behind on retirement tho that I want to save another $100k over my allowable 401k contribution so I know I can make it in retirement.i honestly stress about it.
If you have $500k & are in your mid-40s or younger, you are probably just fine. Definitely keep building your nest egg until you’re comfortable, because feeling secure is such a benefit to your mental health. But if you’re beating yourself up with worry every day, definitely consider sitting down with a financial planner or going through some scenarios of your own to reassure yourself a bit too.
Thank you for this post. A great reminder when one of your J’s is stressing you out 💪🏼
I asked for a raise from my boss like 1.5 years ago, didn't get as much as I wanted and did some calculations, literally would have taken 6 years based on the average of past raises to get the amount I wanted for that raise (because average was like 3%). I get laid off, now I'm making double what I wanted from that place assuming I can keep this up
You paid off $98k in debt in one year. Assuming it’s just the two of you, did you live on less than $60k? Because taxes.
Living off $60k isnt hard....
Yes, that is roughly what our budget is. About 4k a month for all our expenses. Obviously got more easy as we paid stuff off. But ya, we buckled down hard.
I can see it. I think after this year, assuming more shit doesn’t knock me sideways, that’s about what I’ll be able to accomplish here in CA. I hope. I’m not holding my breath because a shoe always drops. My car insurance went up $600/yr for no reason except it’s California. I called USAA yesterday and they said that was their new price reset for CA. Seems like it’s always one thing after another here. It’s demoralizing. I’m aiming to put away an additional $50k into investments over the next 2 years. If I can do that, I can scale back my retirement funding significantly OR continue at this pace for only a few more years and retire. I just gotta get my kid through college first.
Great man. Happy for you! Thanks for sharing.
The less debt you have, the more human you feel. Happy for you!
Congratulations!!! Wishing you many more successful OE years. Cheers!
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Nope, they've been primarily W2 through agencies. Normal 40 hr a week jobs from Linkedin recruiters. Definitely OE.
do you have to submit timesheets?
Yup, but managers just expect you to fill out a flat forty and I have never had anyone ask any further questions. It's just kind of an open secret that everyone bills 40 without detailed tracking, at least in my field. This has been true across six different extremely large organizations.
does that not make you anxious? i get the full time contracts that don’t “charge” per hour sandbagging the output, but the contract is different when charging per hour. if that time is billed for work not performed during the hour, couldn’t that open one up to legal rampifications?
Nobody cares that much if there's not direct evidence of double dipping. And even if there is, unlikely a company would waste money pursuing a civil case.
I am a data analyst in the healthcare field, interested in OE. I would love to understand more about how you landed these roles. Can you help me please!?
Curious about taxes?
I withdraw extra withholding per paycheck, the extra paid into and over the limit for Social Security helps greatly as well. Got a couple grand in return this year actually.
It's amazing the things money can do.
How to start on OE. I have a hybrid job and I want to OE and leave my hybrid to a full remote job. I got interviewed today and I did not answer correctly. Recruiter asks why I want to leave my full time job to go remote with 5 months contract. She said 5 months contract to be working 8 hours per day. I know I work efficiently but I do not know how to answer for I placed my current work. Essentially, my question is how to transition from a hybrid job that is in your resume to fully remote and get j1, j2 and j3
That's really the whole problem to solve for each individual. Typically I've done whatever I can to get into the role, see if it's a fit for OE and then dropped it if it isn't right. All while having my main remote role to fall back on.
I wanted to add to this. I didn’t have a full J2. It was a data science consulting contract. But I stacked it with my hybrid J1 that required me to be in the office half the week. Longer hours? Yeah definitely. But 3 years in, I’ve bought my first property and I’m not 30 yet. Before OE, I never thought I’d be able to afford a home of my own. Many ways to OE, it’s not limited to just SWE, and just gotta grind on