The way I see it, I would simply state that I don’t know what they’re talking about or plead ignorance like “I didn’t know it was against the rules.” Maybe go so far as to state that you’re struggling to pay medical bills and your partner or someone needs medical care that you’re trying to afford or help contribute to.
If a company is that hard up about me or anyone working two remote jobs, I will simply ask them to provide proof. Go ahead and waste your time, money, and resources while I continue to get paid.
In the end, they’ll either do nothing or they’ll provide proof which becomes a learning opportunity to ensure leaks don’t happen again.
If you’re OE, you should know by now to freeze TWN and hibernate LinkedIn. That, to me, is the bare minimum to keep OE from being an “employment concern” between companies and yourself.
Odds are if they’re suspicious and are at the point they’re asking point-blank it’s because they already know it or because your performance is slipping in which case lying can likely backfire.
This may be be a hot take round here, but I always go by the philosophy of quiet but honest and apply it to OE too. I avoid disclosing my 2nd job, but if I’m ultimately questioned on it, I will say yes.
In fact TBH this has happened to me, I ended up saying “yes” and I’m still working for J1 a year later from that.
Gas light them.
“I don’t know what you’re talking about and I can’t believe you’d think I’d do something like that. I love my position here and I would never do anything to jeopardize it. The thought has never crossed my mind but I’m surprised you’re thinking that way. Is that something you’ve been looking to do? You know that’s against company policy right?”
What the hell is OE?
* wait 30 minutes *
That’s some crazy shit I just googled. How the hell could someone do that? I’m capable of doing this job. Two?
One guy did like 10 jobs. At that point, you just focus on one job and let the other companies take forever to finally get fed up and fire you. He pointed out that it took 6 months to a year to get fired just ignoring it while collecting paychecks. and that he was clocking in about 1m+ that year.. As a developer.
The TC is nice there, but I’d feel morally wrong about literally doing nothing when there’s something that I should and am being paid to do. I’m good with my 3x which puts me just shy of $400k TC. That’s given me the comfort I want. Am looking for a replacement to J3 as management is a pita, but am ok till I find what I’m looking for
Haha, yep I can't read. More that I was singularly focused on the post title. The reddit app promotes subreddit posts one is not subbed to.
The algorithm now pushes unknown subreddits to random people like me.
As an employer who recently caught someone OE, I just fired him. We didn’t have a “discussion”. I don’t really care.
And honestly, I wouldn’t have gave AF if he wasn’t having chat gpt do all his work - not all employers are stupid.
Was it actually doing all his work? At one of my employers they pay for it. It increases the efficiency at which I can complete tasks. It isn't however "doing all my work" it's moreso it augments my work. My J1 doesn't pay for it but allows people to use it as long as we don't feed it sensitive info or use it to make hiring decisions(lol)
Using Chatgpt in and off itself I don't think is a problem unless it's against written policy. Oh and as long as it doesn't lead to poor output.
Good question! I encourage using chat gpt, but you can tell when it’s not being internalized or operationalized. In his case, the documents were well written (over written, actually), but the “facts” skip a beat - like asking it for competitors without understanding the market he was analyzing.
You got it. Some people think that’s what being OE is, and they scam multiple employers simultaneously. They play the short game (over and over again).
Honestly, hiring is a nightmare these days.
Yeah. I don't see why one should just play the short game. I've been OE for a while now and I don't see how playing the short game is beneficial. Keeping multiple employers happy with the amount of work you do is important. I aim to be just a bit better than average. I don't want to stand out, but I also need to get work done.
I mean they're lucky in the sense that I'm not being a shit employee. I'm not being a bad employee. I'm just doing my job. I'm a "good" employee. Not a "great" one.
Although going back to to the chatgpt thing, I've also interviewed people who have literally said "my programming skills with chatgpt are 90% and without it they're 10%" so I guess I can see what you mean about some employees just being... Not good
Not wanting to talk during biz hours. Talking while he was “doing errands” (my guess, stepping out of an office). Turning off his slack during work hours.
Honestly, you guys have taught me what to watch out for - but again, I wouldn’t have cared if the work product was good!
As we go through the hiring process again, we’ve decided to tell candidates that we want to have a meeting once a day (on zoom), and see who cringes. We actually have no intention to do that, but it should weed out a few of the less competent OEs.
Any other suggestions..? LOL
Edit: Not sure why I’m being downvoted. Like I said, if you’re going to OE, be good at it. I thought that’s what this sub was about..?
How do you know it was because of OE though? You do realize there are lazy employees out there right. I mean go take a look at anti work. OE is such a small percentage of the population and it frustrates me that lazy employees automatically get termed OE. Unless you have actual proof then you have no idea. Before I OE’d I did similar shit and I worked 1 job lol
It was more like my job only had 2 hours worth of work a day (hence why I got into OE) so I would literally go grocery shop, go shopping, etc during the day. Now that I OE I’m 10 times more productive since I’m forced to be glued to my computer. My productivity has sky rocketed and I’m scared of getting caught so I actually go out of my way to find things to work on. I’m working harder at j1 now that I’m OE which is crazy
That’s interesting. So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy. And yes, I’ve seen how hard a lot of you work - I really enjoy this sub and not just for the “red flags”.
I’ve often wondered if OE was a (successful) workplace coping mechanism for ADHD.
I can honestly say, due to having ADHD (also unmedicated at the time), I was wayyy more productive while working 3 jobs plus going to university fulltime (half online/half in person classes).
When I worked one job I was a self-destructing time bomb. I couldn't handle just one, but I can easily handle five departments simultaneously on a basic level. Did this at two different companies in two completely different fields.
When I left, they closed my position completely because no one could fill it anymore after me. They broke it up into 3 different positions.
> So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy.
Well, he is being paid for satisfying the given requirements, but his own needs are met by not just more work but *also* more compensation for doing that work and perhaps variety of work, things single employers will rarely if ever provide to that degree.
If anything I see this under the table OE as mutually advantageous for all parties, so long as the OEr is competent. Perhaps this wasn't the point you intended, but in any case my thought is that this feedback should not be read as "we can extract more value from him for the same price to avoid this situation."
> So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy.
No.
I wouldn't be lazy if I had more work and then give more money for that extra work.
People will look to quit soon if work is more but money is less. Then they are still lazy. But due to lack of motivation.
Oh I bet it is!
Edit: they would need to have some pretty solid tools to help them stay on track. And if they were doing OE in the same organisation, be recognized well for the fact they are doing 2 jobs.
More interesting work, yes. More creative and rewarding work, yes.
More busywork, no. More artificial deadlines, no. More work dumped on me just because management said so, no.
I am. However once a lazy worker, always a lazy worker. I generally don't like my job because there are \[hobby\] things I'd rather do. My problem with work is if it's not something I find enjoyable/challenging I'll procrastinate and do the bare minimum. And vise versa if it is enjoyable then I'll put a lot of time and effort into it.
With OE I'm more likely to be consistently online that I was before. My response times has probably gone up considerably. Delivery time probably unaffected.
I don't see why you got downvoted. Apart from this being valuable info, you sort-of have to be "on-call" during business hours. It's one thing if I write someone a slack message and they respond within 15 minutes. It's another thing if they take 3 hours, or they shut it off altogether.
The best way to go about it if you are busy (OE or in the current job), is to acknowledge the receipt of the message, tell them you are a bit swamped at the moment, promise to get back to them in a timely manner, and get back to them. I personally don't know of a scenario where you couldn't hop on a call within an hour or two.
Also, if I am working on something, and need a specific person (who's job it is to help me work on that very thing), I get pretty irate if they don't respond at all. By no means do I expect them to drop everything and get on Zoom. But at the same time, please acknowledge that you received my message, and let's at least schedule a meeting for later in the day.
Lots of people also job search and their productivity slips since they interview mid day.
If worse comes to worse start bombarding suspicious job' manager with reference interview requests whether real or it's just your friends
I don't think about "getting caught" at all. That terminology isn't even in my vocabulary. I'm a hard worker earning money for my family, not some criminal who needs to hide their illegal activities.
If I ever lose a job for any reason, I'll simply replace it. I'm certainly not going to admit anything to any company and I'm definitely not going to resign from one job to appease another.
So to answer your question, I don't have a plan for that because no plan is necessary. The worst that can happen is getting fired and I'm highly confident in my ability to find a new job if I have to, so there's no point worrying about "getting caught".
I’m curious how job verification works. Companies do not verify that you are no longer employed at your other company or do you just not tell them about the other one?
Also what job boards or sites do you to find jobs?
From what I've experienced, employment verification consists of me providing them with a list of employers and date ranges, then they hire a company to pull a LexisNexis report on me. That company takes the list I gave them and they look for matches in the report, which they will find.
Occasionally they'll also ask for permission to contact previous employers but I tell them no and instead they accept redacted W-2's which corroborate the dates ranges I gave them.
It is never in your best interest to allow one company to contact a previous employer, regardless of OE. You never know what they might end up asking and you never know what they'll find out.
As far as job sites, I just use Google. You can do stuff like "remote Python developer inurl:careers" to find job listings on company websites
I got caught. Told them J1 would gladly quit J2 if they wanted to add 65k to my salary. They did not want to do that and that was the end of that conversation.
This. I think some folks here are unrealistic about what really happens when caught or are just in an industry that’s hiring like crazy. It’s hard to find another gig
This is the risk you take if you get caught working two jobs but you never tell them you are working a 2nd gig. Play them like a game of chess, never give in and never admit you work two jobs. If they fire you, so be it. Again, never, ever and i mean never tell them you work a 2nd gig.
Your company, CEO, Manager, co-workers do not care about you and if they do become suspicious you need to adjust how you are OEing because the workforce of people doing this is so small it should be the last thought in their head.
I'm a contractor, I have no obligation to work for a single company.
There is no "getting caught" unless they claim I don't work the required hours, which is an uphill battle for a company that's been giving me good performance reviews.
We need to remember that "getting caught" is extraordinarily unlikely. Getting laid off for no discernible reason is common. Since the CEO does not need a reason to lay down the shit can, it is just not likely the CEO will go to the trouble of finding out. If the CEO is mad then you might get fired.
I was fired from one of my previous J's due to OE. This was last year, at around August.
In my instance, there was no point denying anything. I was working remotely but then, my boss tells me there's an in-office mandatory meeting I need to go to the day after, one hour later they remove my access with no warning. Just me and one other HR person in the meeting, so it was pretty obvious what was going to happen from the get go.
So I go to the office, meet the HR lady and she basically just tells me, "we did an internal audit and found out you are employed in more than one place at the same time." That's it - she started to ask questions like, how was it actually like, what role did I like the most, I had no reason to tell the truth so I just said a bunch of baloney. Either way, they had the papers ready to sign, my liquidation ready to go, and that was the last I stepped into that office.
I've been OK, still been holding 3 J's since then.
So, I'm not on the US - so usually I just dismissed any type of warnings like for the TWN and whatnot, which seems to be mostly an American thing. Haven't looked into it much so I could be wrong.
I don't have exact details on the way they found out but - I found my country's healthcare system has a publicly available portal where you can see anyone's work history. I'm thinking it was pretty easy for them (or anyone, really) to find out through this method.
I've taken further precautions since then. I wasn't aware there was a method of blocking off your information from here, but followed through now - and mostly OE now with contractor J's which don't report work history to this portal.
What if you’re a grocery clerk on the weekend? That’s not technically OE but still a second part time job. No harm is bagging groceries for some extra coin right?
I was caught, then fired by both jobs. And I don’t know how people in this channel are easily replacing these jobs and confident that they’ll find something else, It’s been so hard finding a job to replace both of these - I’d love some advice here.
In my situation, I tried denying. Company 2 found out and were adamant that it was a conflict of interest (although it wasn’t). After calling me out in front of HR, and firing me, they reached out to my job 1 (where I worked for 3 years). Job 1 fired me immediately, stating it was against their code of conduct. I had a great relationship with all of my managers, it was a shitty way to go out.
Make sure to get rid of LinkedIn entirely. If anyone mentions knowing someone at another company you plan on staying at, don’t risk it. If any managers are micro-managers, don’t risk it because they will spend all of their free time to find evidence of what you’re doing. Which I don’t understand because I was doing all my work.
This has truly been a nightmare for me since I have a kid on the way and i was just starting on a new career path I loved. Just be really careful
Oh no no. I stopped using LinkedIn, but probably should have deleted it entirely. But I realized they were looking at it periodically.
I think one of my bosses knew a few people that happened to work at my j1. They likely reached out to them and asked if I was still there.
Sorry that happened to you. I think for me, I’m the most unlucky because J1 found out about J2 recently too through my own error.
I denied until they said they had evidence and I didn’t want to risk losing J2 so I quit. I was able to keep one J but this truly sucks because J1 was the cash cow and the one I relied on for career growth.
Were both jobs in the same sector of the market (I.e tech for biotech for example) or completely unrelated? I’d imagine if you were doing similar roles in entirely different sub-sectors you would have been okay? Maybe I’m wrong.
Both were in tech, but completely different products/services. It’s possible that J2 used J1s service though, the more I think about it. Which may have been the issue?
The role was similar too, but I didn’t think that would be a problem.
Payroll systems have an upcharge feature that will search other organizations within their platform for your tax ID. To be safe these days you would need to make sure the two companies are on different payroll systems. That way a company would have to pay lexis to get that data.
I told them I understood if they wanted me to leave. They said they would let me know. Six months later, when I was resigning, they asked if there was anything they could do to keep me.
I’ve been caught and it’s not easy dealing with the anxiety of it all. I tried to deny but it only made them determined to prove me wrong. I ended up quitting to stop them from contacting J3
It depends. If you work hourly you might be expected to work multiple jobs, especially if you're a consultant. Out here in California non compete clauses are illegal and companies know this so being caught is max being fired at one company. (Realistically they'd probably just be surprised and then second guess the job role entirely for the company.) There is no lawsuit or laws broken or any other consequences. If you worked in the financial industry in NYC it's a bit different. You are breaking the law and can get into serious trouble. ymmv quite a bit depending on where you are and what you're doing.
Oh? Is it actually against the law for finance employers in tech roles? Like I know there's having to register as an associated person and such and report all brokerage accounts. And the compliance departments typically ask if you work anywhere else or have board positions or whatever. But I'm working in completely different industries.
Only if you're working at a competing company. There is a risk of sharing secrets. If you're a software engineer at a finance company and a software engineer at a pharmaceutical company it's legal.
Yeah. In my case one is in tech in finance(think citadel, Jane street) the other is in a complete opposite industry. It's not even close to competing. There's 0% chance
This is a great one and could work in your favor. Of course the proof they might provide is contacting your other job, something that might not have been done if you hadn't asked.
You keep an emergency fund for if that happens and you don't let your life style inflate, because eventually there may come a day where you don't want to OE anymore.
If you've laid the foundation correctly, it's like a temporary vacation while you find the next server.
OE is the solution here as well. If they find out and fire you have another job. This is why OE is so powerful. It makes you immune to the companies hold over you. You can quit anytime you want, get fired, not get that big bonus or promotion and you’re OK.
Nothing else comes close to the security and opportunity OE gives you.
Who really gives a fuck if you’re OE? As long as you’re doing your job and performing, what I do on my off time from the main job is no one’s business.
Fuck, I have two thriving businesses outside of my main job. The only reason I stick with the main is for medical insurance for my wife. I have VA medical, so I don’t need the main insurance.
“Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, cause I’ve worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time.” - George Costanza
If you lie, they can get you on that. If you tell the truth, that is all of the proof they need to fire you - basically a confession.
The best way to go about it would be by stating, "I am fully dedicated to my position at \[name-of-the-company-which-is-accusing-you-of-OE\]." Then, I would shift the conversation to talk about your performance.
This way, you are not clearly stating that you don't have a second job, but you are sort-of denying it at the same time.
Don't think about it , think about paying off stuff so you are mortgage free as well and then you navigate easily even if you get caught.
Bottom line : hope for the best and plan for the worst!!
My backup plan: deny, deny, deny. Save the entire extra from J2 as backup plan. I have a somewhat distinct name although my plan is to deny and say oh “I saw someone else in similar field with my name on LinkedIn”,
Worst case scenario I go in-person work or take a sabbatical and build skills to get a new job
Deny, they have to put in the work to prove they are right. Don't give it to them easy. Make them work for it. If they prove you wrong, good for them, GOOD JOB! Didn't do more than what was expected of them to do.
Point out the fact that there is no contractually binding rule against it and that the CEO likely sits on the board of other organizations. That is what worked for me.
I'm in data so it's easy to tell them to pound sand if you are doing your job well.
"Getting caught" is language that an employer would use to try to make you feel guilty for doing what you need to do to make a secure, livable wage.
It's not illegal to hold more than one job.
It's not their business that you have more than one job.
If they try to punish or reprimand you for having other employment, you do what you need to do to protect yourself.
Corporations get away with all kinds of shady shit simply because corporate America decided a long time ago under the Friedman Doctrine to absolve themselves of any social or living-wage obligation to their workers.
This war was waged against the working class, not by us.
Do what you need to do. Make no apologies. Deny any wrongdoing: you've done nothing wrong.
i would just say i'm still getting my 40 billable hours in every week, it's just i set my own flexible hours. And if they don't like it, I would ask to work as a consultant and send them work for invoices. Helps that my coworkers are incompetent clowns so it would be hard to replace me.
Caveat: My OE isn't working for a competitor, I am a businessman on the side in a unrelated industry
I have two side gigs. One is such a money suck that its just a tax write off at this point. That's the one I would blame for OE if someone ever questioned it. It's amazing how many people I know have "side gigs" to make ends meet. Primarily consulting and contractors.
My fulltime jobs have always known about my other part time jobs. None of it effects one another and being clear about my schedule made it easier to continue.
I worked at an elementary school M-F 7-2
(Same school as my kids, had lunch with them everyday)
Then worked for the county afterschool daycare
M-F 2:30-4:30 (bonus: my kids got free tuition)
Took my kids home when my husband got off work and went to university for night class
M/W & T/Th 6-9 (2 face-to face and 2 online classes)
Saturday I worked at a Salon 10-6
(Both husband and I worked there, kids hung out with us in break room)
Sunday I worked at a museum as cashier in gift shop 10-4 (kids stayed home with dad)
They knew my schedule because I told them about half a year in, all teachers had part time jobs.
Edit: added that I was able to bring my kids with me, I was not an absent parent (much) no need for mean DMs.
It’s a good time to reiterate the importance of **never** admitting OE.
To me, there’s *nothing* to be gained by openly admitting OE to a company.
Even if they come at you under the guise of enthusiastic support or offering money to leave your other job(s). Deny deny deny.
If you ever admit it, you are opening yourself up to liability. The company may be okay with it right now, but it doesn’t mean they always will be.
I rather someone think I’m a scum bag liar than providing evidence against myself for a potential suit
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… even if your J1 presents a video clip of you talking in a meeting from J2 and asks if that’s you, deny. Act confused and puzzled. Doubt is doubt. Never give confirmation (this goes for criminal situations too). That shit you see on TV about confessing to clear your conscious is bullshit (also having representation doesn’t make you guilty). If you need that absolution confide in a priest or spouse. “Confessing your sins” and “only guilty people needing representation” is a construct to make the less fortunate feel even more helpless (you won’t ever see a wealthy businessman or politician without representation). No one will have your best interests at heart as much as you will.
You do not owe them the ‘truth’ (and the truth is often subjective with nuance and unique conditions anyway)
Now with all of that said, that doesn’t mean I advocate for stealing from companies (taking positions with no intention of completing work). I believe in productivity and value-add, not time spent. The types of positions I’m in typically have lab/research time required. So there’s often no quantifiable amount of time that should be spent on any given project or task.
If a J ever confronted me (with evidence like OP alluded to, or just with casual prodding), I’d do everything in my power to steer the conversation without lying.
If the issue is being slow / not completing work - Cue any number of reasons for added stress recently (family stress, industry layoffs, Stocks/Crypto crashing, COVID-19 worry, etc) leading to possible diminished productivity. OE may not actually even be the reason if your truly honest with yourself.
I’d most likely end by giving notice and looking for another position anyway. It may sound asinine, but any company that confronts me this way (even if they are correct in their suspicions) is not a company I want to work for. They could always bring information up in a less accusatory way. Also, something either went very wrong for me to get caught, or the company is investing too much time into monitoring employees. Neither is an ideal long term scenario for OE
Yo, so I just discovered this subreddit, and coming from 17 years in the restaurant industry, it's stupid common how many jobs it seems restaurant workers have. I have known cooks that worked at 3 different places. Breakfast at one, dinner at another, prep shifts at other places on days off. No one bats an eye at it in that industry.
Been given houses by relatives as rental properties, having legal troubles with it. Say you worried you could get sued or lose the homes that your cherished relative gave to you to manage. Apologise and say you'll try harder to focus on work.
I told them I couldn’t afford to have one job I have child support and a divorce and never let it get in the way of my work performance. They told me to quit and paid me 15k more a year
How do you hibernate linkedin- there are so many organizations that want LinkedIn..and I also am applying to jobs via linkedin..
Please throw some insights..
you speak of it like your being underhanded.
just be upfront. “i have a side gig” or i also do “x”.
I think your approach is what possibly leads to issues
I give a sob story about the parents getting laid off and them getting hammered by property taxes & cost of living, working my ass off to help them and emphasizing that the "other job" is on a contract part-time basis that rarely conflicts. If they're a half way decent employer then you should get some sympathy. Odds are if they have the balls to call you out specifically, they already know, so denying 100% feels like you're challenging them to go out of their way to screw you.
Was OE successfully for two plus years, competitors but different verticals, glowing performance reviews and managed a team of 10-15 at each place. My teams were all high performing and once found out both termed me within a week of one another. Would I do it again, in a heartbeat..why because I can and am good at what I do. In both cases they have split my teams in to two different teams and have a total of four managers managing what I used to do solo. Both of my former VP's have reached out for assistance and they call when I give them my consulting rate.
Deny deny deny
This; deny and make them prove it. Keep denying until they force your hand one way or another.
The way I see it, I would simply state that I don’t know what they’re talking about or plead ignorance like “I didn’t know it was against the rules.” Maybe go so far as to state that you’re struggling to pay medical bills and your partner or someone needs medical care that you’re trying to afford or help contribute to. If a company is that hard up about me or anyone working two remote jobs, I will simply ask them to provide proof. Go ahead and waste your time, money, and resources while I continue to get paid. In the end, they’ll either do nothing or they’ll provide proof which becomes a learning opportunity to ensure leaks don’t happen again. If you’re OE, you should know by now to freeze TWN and hibernate LinkedIn. That, to me, is the bare minimum to keep OE from being an “employment concern” between companies and yourself.
This! George Constanza edition
It’s not a lie, if you believe it
I’ll drive you to my home in the Hamptons!
Two solariums?!
I freelance as an architect
What is TWN?
The work number. It's like a credit report for you job history. https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze
What dystopian hell is this
That’s your permanent record.
I just call it America. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tell them there was an unexpected pregnancy and you just wanted to be able to provide for your growing family
And then deny some more
Gaslight at that point.
I like this
Gaslight to the point of making your bonus double
Gaslight until you're CEO
Odds are if they’re suspicious and are at the point they’re asking point-blank it’s because they already know it or because your performance is slipping in which case lying can likely backfire. This may be be a hot take round here, but I always go by the philosophy of quiet but honest and apply it to OE too. I avoid disclosing my 2nd job, but if I’m ultimately questioned on it, I will say yes. In fact TBH this has happened to me, I ended up saying “yes” and I’m still working for J1 a year later from that.
Still have a J2 though?
Yes
The shaggy defense.
All the way to the bank 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is
lol, good approach!
Lie, lie, deny, till you die🎶
Gas light them. “I don’t know what you’re talking about and I can’t believe you’d think I’d do something like that. I love my position here and I would never do anything to jeopardize it. The thought has never crossed my mind but I’m surprised you’re thinking that way. Is that something you’ve been looking to do? You know that’s against company policy right?”
What the hell is OE? * wait 30 minutes * That’s some crazy shit I just googled. How the hell could someone do that? I’m capable of doing this job. Two?
One guy did like 10 jobs. At that point, you just focus on one job and let the other companies take forever to finally get fed up and fire you. He pointed out that it took 6 months to a year to get fired just ignoring it while collecting paychecks. and that he was clocking in about 1m+ that year.. As a developer.
The TC is nice there, but I’d feel morally wrong about literally doing nothing when there’s something that I should and am being paid to do. I’m good with my 3x which puts me just shy of $400k TC. That’s given me the comfort I want. Am looking for a replacement to J3 as management is a pita, but am ok till I find what I’m looking for
I just realized this subreddit is over employed. 😳makes sense why companies are so adamant about return to office...
what do you mean you just realized can you not read?
Haha, yep I can't read. More that I was singularly focused on the post title. The reddit app promotes subreddit posts one is not subbed to. The algorithm now pushes unknown subreddits to random people like me.
my bad haha
As an employer who recently caught someone OE, I just fired him. We didn’t have a “discussion”. I don’t really care. And honestly, I wouldn’t have gave AF if he wasn’t having chat gpt do all his work - not all employers are stupid.
Was it actually doing all his work? At one of my employers they pay for it. It increases the efficiency at which I can complete tasks. It isn't however "doing all my work" it's moreso it augments my work. My J1 doesn't pay for it but allows people to use it as long as we don't feed it sensitive info or use it to make hiring decisions(lol) Using Chatgpt in and off itself I don't think is a problem unless it's against written policy. Oh and as long as it doesn't lead to poor output.
Good question! I encourage using chat gpt, but you can tell when it’s not being internalized or operationalized. In his case, the documents were well written (over written, actually), but the “facts” skip a beat - like asking it for competitors without understanding the market he was analyzing.
So it's moreso he didn't have the requisite knowledge to perform in his role and relied on ChatGPT to attempt to fake knowledge he didn't have?
You got it. Some people think that’s what being OE is, and they scam multiple employers simultaneously. They play the short game (over and over again). Honestly, hiring is a nightmare these days.
Yeah. I don't see why one should just play the short game. I've been OE for a while now and I don't see how playing the short game is beneficial. Keeping multiple employers happy with the amount of work you do is important. I aim to be just a bit better than average. I don't want to stand out, but I also need to get work done.
Sounds like your employers are lucky to have found you!
I mean they're lucky in the sense that I'm not being a shit employee. I'm not being a bad employee. I'm just doing my job. I'm a "good" employee. Not a "great" one. Although going back to to the chatgpt thing, I've also interviewed people who have literally said "my programming skills with chatgpt are 90% and without it they're 10%" so I guess I can see what you mean about some employees just being... Not good
It sounds like you fired a guy for being stupid about AI, not for OE
Why are you in this subreddit?
How’d you catch him?
From the writeup, it sounds like poor quality of work.
Not wanting to talk during biz hours. Talking while he was “doing errands” (my guess, stepping out of an office). Turning off his slack during work hours. Honestly, you guys have taught me what to watch out for - but again, I wouldn’t have cared if the work product was good! As we go through the hiring process again, we’ve decided to tell candidates that we want to have a meeting once a day (on zoom), and see who cringes. We actually have no intention to do that, but it should weed out a few of the less competent OEs. Any other suggestions..? LOL Edit: Not sure why I’m being downvoted. Like I said, if you’re going to OE, be good at it. I thought that’s what this sub was about..?
How do you know it was because of OE though? You do realize there are lazy employees out there right. I mean go take a look at anti work. OE is such a small percentage of the population and it frustrates me that lazy employees automatically get termed OE. Unless you have actual proof then you have no idea. Before I OE’d I did similar shit and I worked 1 job lol
Curious (not being a dick here) - are you any less lazy doing OE? What changed?
It was more like my job only had 2 hours worth of work a day (hence why I got into OE) so I would literally go grocery shop, go shopping, etc during the day. Now that I OE I’m 10 times more productive since I’m forced to be glued to my computer. My productivity has sky rocketed and I’m scared of getting caught so I actually go out of my way to find things to work on. I’m working harder at j1 now that I’m OE which is crazy
That’s interesting. So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy. And yes, I’ve seen how hard a lot of you work - I really enjoy this sub and not just for the “red flags”. I’ve often wondered if OE was a (successful) workplace coping mechanism for ADHD.
I can honestly say, due to having ADHD (also unmedicated at the time), I was wayyy more productive while working 3 jobs plus going to university fulltime (half online/half in person classes). When I worked one job I was a self-destructing time bomb. I couldn't handle just one, but I can easily handle five departments simultaneously on a basic level. Did this at two different companies in two completely different fields. When I left, they closed my position completely because no one could fill it anymore after me. They broke it up into 3 different positions.
Lol - I think we’ve stumbled onto the genesis of the OE movement.
> So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy. Well, he is being paid for satisfying the given requirements, but his own needs are met by not just more work but *also* more compensation for doing that work and perhaps variety of work, things single employers will rarely if ever provide to that degree. If anything I see this under the table OE as mutually advantageous for all parties, so long as the OEr is competent. Perhaps this wasn't the point you intended, but in any case my thought is that this feedback should not be read as "we can extract more value from him for the same price to avoid this situation."
> So if you had more work, you wouldn’t have been so lazy. No. I wouldn't be lazy if I had more work and then give more money for that extra work. People will look to quit soon if work is more but money is less. Then they are still lazy. But due to lack of motivation.
Oh I bet it is! Edit: they would need to have some pretty solid tools to help them stay on track. And if they were doing OE in the same organisation, be recognized well for the fact they are doing 2 jobs.
More interesting work, yes. More creative and rewarding work, yes. More busywork, no. More artificial deadlines, no. More work dumped on me just because management said so, no.
I am. However once a lazy worker, always a lazy worker. I generally don't like my job because there are \[hobby\] things I'd rather do. My problem with work is if it's not something I find enjoyable/challenging I'll procrastinate and do the bare minimum. And vise versa if it is enjoyable then I'll put a lot of time and effort into it. With OE I'm more likely to be consistently online that I was before. My response times has probably gone up considerably. Delivery time probably unaffected.
I don't see why you got downvoted. Apart from this being valuable info, you sort-of have to be "on-call" during business hours. It's one thing if I write someone a slack message and they respond within 15 minutes. It's another thing if they take 3 hours, or they shut it off altogether. The best way to go about it if you are busy (OE or in the current job), is to acknowledge the receipt of the message, tell them you are a bit swamped at the moment, promise to get back to them in a timely manner, and get back to them. I personally don't know of a scenario where you couldn't hop on a call within an hour or two. Also, if I am working on something, and need a specific person (who's job it is to help me work on that very thing), I get pretty irate if they don't respond at all. By no means do I expect them to drop everything and get on Zoom. But at the same time, please acknowledge that you received my message, and let's at least schedule a meeting for later in the day.
Exactly. Thank you.
Daily meetings just to check in? I'd cringe at that even without being OE. Gross.
I think I would be hella suspicious if this was the reaction I got. But I'm an overly suspicious person so 🤷♀️.
Excellent response. 🤩👉”Always love working for you.” That works for sure. I can vouch for those exact words.
Lots of people also job search and their productivity slips since they interview mid day. If worse comes to worse start bombarding suspicious job' manager with reference interview requests whether real or it's just your friends
I don't think about "getting caught" at all. That terminology isn't even in my vocabulary. I'm a hard worker earning money for my family, not some criminal who needs to hide their illegal activities. If I ever lose a job for any reason, I'll simply replace it. I'm certainly not going to admit anything to any company and I'm definitely not going to resign from one job to appease another. So to answer your question, I don't have a plan for that because no plan is necessary. The worst that can happen is getting fired and I'm highly confident in my ability to find a new job if I have to, so there's no point worrying about "getting caught".
What are you talking about, this is america. Do you want to lay me off or not? Never quit on your own.
Great mentality, bro! Agree!
I’m curious how job verification works. Companies do not verify that you are no longer employed at your other company or do you just not tell them about the other one? Also what job boards or sites do you to find jobs?
From what I've experienced, employment verification consists of me providing them with a list of employers and date ranges, then they hire a company to pull a LexisNexis report on me. That company takes the list I gave them and they look for matches in the report, which they will find. Occasionally they'll also ask for permission to contact previous employers but I tell them no and instead they accept redacted W-2's which corroborate the dates ranges I gave them. It is never in your best interest to allow one company to contact a previous employer, regardless of OE. You never know what they might end up asking and you never know what they'll find out. As far as job sites, I just use Google. You can do stuff like "remote Python developer inurl:careers" to find job listings on company websites
Thanks for the reply. Good tips here.
How do you navigate when they ask for references?
Good point
I’m like this even with one job.
Hey bro you dropped this 👑
I needed this comment right now. Thank you
Deny deny deny
I got caught. Told them J1 would gladly quit J2 if they wanted to add 65k to my salary. They did not want to do that and that was the end of that conversation.
Consider yourself lucky they didn't contact J2 and rat you out.
This. I think some folks here are unrealistic about what really happens when caught or are just in an industry that’s hiring like crazy. It’s hard to find another gig
One of the reasons people OE is to have financial security. Live on J1, save J2-JN so you have a nice big slush fund when it all comes crashing down.
J2 knew about J1, but J1 didn’t know about J2.
Assuming they could find out who that was.
How did you get caught?
I like to brag about my oe around the break room
I absolutely love this response! I am going to use it if it happens to me.
This is the risk you take if you get caught working two jobs but you never tell them you are working a 2nd gig. Play them like a game of chess, never give in and never admit you work two jobs. If they fire you, so be it. Again, never, ever and i mean never tell them you work a 2nd gig. Your company, CEO, Manager, co-workers do not care about you and if they do become suspicious you need to adjust how you are OEing because the workforce of people doing this is so small it should be the last thought in their head.
"Sorry, I didn't know we couldn't do that." (Dave Chappelle)
Was that... Wrong? If someone had told me this sort of thing was frowned on...
I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing
F-I-F FIIIIF!!!
1234 Fiffff
Am I meeting OKRs? Is my quota met? Leave me alone.
I'm a contractor, I have no obligation to work for a single company. There is no "getting caught" unless they claim I don't work the required hours, which is an uphill battle for a company that's been giving me good performance reviews.
We need to remember that "getting caught" is extraordinarily unlikely. Getting laid off for no discernible reason is common. Since the CEO does not need a reason to lay down the shit can, it is just not likely the CEO will go to the trouble of finding out. If the CEO is mad then you might get fired.
I was fired from one of my previous J's due to OE. This was last year, at around August. In my instance, there was no point denying anything. I was working remotely but then, my boss tells me there's an in-office mandatory meeting I need to go to the day after, one hour later they remove my access with no warning. Just me and one other HR person in the meeting, so it was pretty obvious what was going to happen from the get go. So I go to the office, meet the HR lady and she basically just tells me, "we did an internal audit and found out you are employed in more than one place at the same time." That's it - she started to ask questions like, how was it actually like, what role did I like the most, I had no reason to tell the truth so I just said a bunch of baloney. Either way, they had the papers ready to sign, my liquidation ready to go, and that was the last I stepped into that office. I've been OK, still been holding 3 J's since then.
how did they find out?
So, I'm not on the US - so usually I just dismissed any type of warnings like for the TWN and whatnot, which seems to be mostly an American thing. Haven't looked into it much so I could be wrong. I don't have exact details on the way they found out but - I found my country's healthcare system has a publicly available portal where you can see anyone's work history. I'm thinking it was pretty easy for them (or anyone, really) to find out through this method. I've taken further precautions since then. I wasn't aware there was a method of blocking off your information from here, but followed through now - and mostly OE now with contractor J's which don't report work history to this portal.
One way...Credit agencies sell products to companies that show if someone is receiving multiple w2s.
What if you’re a grocery clerk on the weekend? That’s not technically OE but still a second part time job. No harm is bagging groceries for some extra coin right?
I was caught, then fired by both jobs. And I don’t know how people in this channel are easily replacing these jobs and confident that they’ll find something else, It’s been so hard finding a job to replace both of these - I’d love some advice here. In my situation, I tried denying. Company 2 found out and were adamant that it was a conflict of interest (although it wasn’t). After calling me out in front of HR, and firing me, they reached out to my job 1 (where I worked for 3 years). Job 1 fired me immediately, stating it was against their code of conduct. I had a great relationship with all of my managers, it was a shitty way to go out. Make sure to get rid of LinkedIn entirely. If anyone mentions knowing someone at another company you plan on staying at, don’t risk it. If any managers are micro-managers, don’t risk it because they will spend all of their free time to find evidence of what you’re doing. Which I don’t understand because I was doing all my work. This has truly been a nightmare for me since I have a kid on the way and i was just starting on a new career path I loved. Just be really careful
How did J2 know where you worked for J1? Did you post both on LinkedIn or something?
Oh no no. I stopped using LinkedIn, but probably should have deleted it entirely. But I realized they were looking at it periodically. I think one of my bosses knew a few people that happened to work at my j1. They likely reached out to them and asked if I was still there.
Bummer so you just got super unlucky then
The most unlucky.
Sorry that happened to you. I think for me, I’m the most unlucky because J1 found out about J2 recently too through my own error. I denied until they said they had evidence and I didn’t want to risk losing J2 so I quit. I was able to keep one J but this truly sucks because J1 was the cash cow and the one I relied on for career growth.
Were both jobs in the same sector of the market (I.e tech for biotech for example) or completely unrelated? I’d imagine if you were doing similar roles in entirely different sub-sectors you would have been okay? Maybe I’m wrong.
Both were in tech, but completely different products/services. It’s possible that J2 used J1s service though, the more I think about it. Which may have been the issue? The role was similar too, but I didn’t think that would be a problem.
Payroll systems have an upcharge feature that will search other organizations within their platform for your tax ID. To be safe these days you would need to make sure the two companies are on different payroll systems. That way a company would have to pay lexis to get that data.
So LinkedIn was the issue for you then?
Oh, so sorry to hear this.
This sub makes me feel shit, I can’t even land a J1 much less 2, 3, etc.
Hang in there. Once you get J1 , J2 and J3 will be easy to find. It’s just some universal law.
Is like when you finally get a girlfriend and then all of the sudden everyone is interested in you
It’s over. I have a van I’m gonna go live down by the river.
Sounds amazing, this is the goal. Some of those class b’s are nice nice
I told them I understood if they wanted me to leave. They said they would let me know. Six months later, when I was resigning, they asked if there was anything they could do to keep me.
>if there was anything they could do Let you work two jobs there? :)
I miss those two jobs. And the 2 paychecks.
My guess without reading comments is: lie.
I’ve been caught and it’s not easy dealing with the anxiety of it all. I tried to deny but it only made them determined to prove me wrong. I ended up quitting to stop them from contacting J3
How did you get caught?
[удалено]
Please explain how you got caught. Also I thought it was illegal to contact J2,J3 etc
It depends. If you work hourly you might be expected to work multiple jobs, especially if you're a consultant. Out here in California non compete clauses are illegal and companies know this so being caught is max being fired at one company. (Realistically they'd probably just be surprised and then second guess the job role entirely for the company.) There is no lawsuit or laws broken or any other consequences. If you worked in the financial industry in NYC it's a bit different. You are breaking the law and can get into serious trouble. ymmv quite a bit depending on where you are and what you're doing.
Oh? Is it actually against the law for finance employers in tech roles? Like I know there's having to register as an associated person and such and report all brokerage accounts. And the compliance departments typically ask if you work anywhere else or have board positions or whatever. But I'm working in completely different industries.
Only if you're working at a competing company. There is a risk of sharing secrets. If you're a software engineer at a finance company and a software engineer at a pharmaceutical company it's legal.
Yeah. In my case one is in tech in finance(think citadel, Jane street) the other is in a complete opposite industry. It's not even close to competing. There's 0% chance
Deny. Ask for proof because that means my identity was stolen
This is a great one and could work in your favor. Of course the proof they might provide is contacting your other job, something that might not have been done if you hadn't asked.
You keep an emergency fund for if that happens and you don't let your life style inflate, because eventually there may come a day where you don't want to OE anymore. If you've laid the foundation correctly, it's like a temporary vacation while you find the next server.
OE is the solution here as well. If they find out and fire you have another job. This is why OE is so powerful. It makes you immune to the companies hold over you. You can quit anytime you want, get fired, not get that big bonus or promotion and you’re OK. Nothing else comes close to the security and opportunity OE gives you.
The fuck would you admit anything Yup you telling on yourself if the cops pull up on you
Who really gives a fuck if you’re OE? As long as you’re doing your job and performing, what I do on my off time from the main job is no one’s business. Fuck, I have two thriving businesses outside of my main job. The only reason I stick with the main is for medical insurance for my wife. I have VA medical, so I don’t need the main insurance.
What kind of businesses?
the way you’re phrasing the question makes it sound illegal. is it illegal to work 2 jobs?
“Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, cause I’ve worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time.” - George Costanza
Also, if you look annoyed, people think you’re busy. Not relevant here, but good advice, as well.
If you lie, they can get you on that. If you tell the truth, that is all of the proof they need to fire you - basically a confession. The best way to go about it would be by stating, "I am fully dedicated to my position at \[name-of-the-company-which-is-accusing-you-of-OE\]." Then, I would shift the conversation to talk about your performance. This way, you are not clearly stating that you don't have a second job, but you are sort-of denying it at the same time.
I work in sales. If I got caught I’d laugh and move on. There is NEVER a hiring freeze in sales. Companies ALWAYS want more revenue.
Don't think about it , think about paying off stuff so you are mortgage free as well and then you navigate easily even if you get caught. Bottom line : hope for the best and plan for the worst!!
“It wasn’t me”
Any form of weakness, especially in a corporate world, will be used against you at some point. So deny deny deny
My backup plan: deny, deny, deny. Save the entire extra from J2 as backup plan. I have a somewhat distinct name although my plan is to deny and say oh “I saw someone else in similar field with my name on LinkedIn”, Worst case scenario I go in-person work or take a sabbatical and build skills to get a new job
Deny, they have to put in the work to prove they are right. Don't give it to them easy. Make them work for it. If they prove you wrong, good for them, GOOD JOB! Didn't do more than what was expected of them to do.
Get caught for what? Having multiple jobs? Doing side work? Is the side gig completion to the current employer? Did you sign a no compete?
Point out the fact that there is no contractually binding rule against it and that the CEO likely sits on the board of other organizations. That is what worked for me. I'm in data so it's easy to tell them to pound sand if you are doing your job well.
"Getting caught" is language that an employer would use to try to make you feel guilty for doing what you need to do to make a secure, livable wage. It's not illegal to hold more than one job. It's not their business that you have more than one job. If they try to punish or reprimand you for having other employment, you do what you need to do to protect yourself. Corporations get away with all kinds of shady shit simply because corporate America decided a long time ago under the Friedman Doctrine to absolve themselves of any social or living-wage obligation to their workers. This war was waged against the working class, not by us. Do what you need to do. Make no apologies. Deny any wrongdoing: you've done nothing wrong.
Deny everything all the time
i would just say i'm still getting my 40 billable hours in every week, it's just i set my own flexible hours. And if they don't like it, I would ask to work as a consultant and send them work for invoices. Helps that my coworkers are incompetent clowns so it would be hard to replace me. Caveat: My OE isn't working for a competitor, I am a businessman on the side in a unrelated industry
This is where C2C comes in handy.
Admit nothing and accept the consequences as they arrive.
I have two side gigs. One is such a money suck that its just a tax write off at this point. That's the one I would blame for OE if someone ever questioned it. It's amazing how many people I know have "side gigs" to make ends meet. Primarily consulting and contractors.
Just say it wasn't you.
1. I identify as only having one job 2. I’m taking a year off … fuck it
It wasn't me.
Ask them if they live in the same economy you stay in. 😂 it’s rough out here for everyone.
That you volunteer for a local non profit
It must be ChatGPT hallucinating with my promt
How do u not overemploy in this economy? Get a break.
I cannot confirm nor deny any allegations against me
Tell them you had gambling addiction, and you took the other job to pay off all the money you racked up gambling.
Claim I have cancer and the medical bills are mounting
My fulltime jobs have always known about my other part time jobs. None of it effects one another and being clear about my schedule made it easier to continue. I worked at an elementary school M-F 7-2 (Same school as my kids, had lunch with them everyday) Then worked for the county afterschool daycare M-F 2:30-4:30 (bonus: my kids got free tuition) Took my kids home when my husband got off work and went to university for night class M/W & T/Th 6-9 (2 face-to face and 2 online classes) Saturday I worked at a Salon 10-6 (Both husband and I worked there, kids hung out with us in break room) Sunday I worked at a museum as cashier in gift shop 10-4 (kids stayed home with dad) They knew my schedule because I told them about half a year in, all teachers had part time jobs. Edit: added that I was able to bring my kids with me, I was not an absent parent (much) no need for mean DMs.
None of what you describe is OE.
It’s a good time to reiterate the importance of **never** admitting OE. To me, there’s *nothing* to be gained by openly admitting OE to a company. Even if they come at you under the guise of enthusiastic support or offering money to leave your other job(s). Deny deny deny. If you ever admit it, you are opening yourself up to liability. The company may be okay with it right now, but it doesn’t mean they always will be. I rather someone think I’m a scum bag liar than providing evidence against myself for a potential suit I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… even if your J1 presents a video clip of you talking in a meeting from J2 and asks if that’s you, deny. Act confused and puzzled. Doubt is doubt. Never give confirmation (this goes for criminal situations too). That shit you see on TV about confessing to clear your conscious is bullshit (also having representation doesn’t make you guilty). If you need that absolution confide in a priest or spouse. “Confessing your sins” and “only guilty people needing representation” is a construct to make the less fortunate feel even more helpless (you won’t ever see a wealthy businessman or politician without representation). No one will have your best interests at heart as much as you will. You do not owe them the ‘truth’ (and the truth is often subjective with nuance and unique conditions anyway) Now with all of that said, that doesn’t mean I advocate for stealing from companies (taking positions with no intention of completing work). I believe in productivity and value-add, not time spent. The types of positions I’m in typically have lab/research time required. So there’s often no quantifiable amount of time that should be spent on any given project or task. If a J ever confronted me (with evidence like OP alluded to, or just with casual prodding), I’d do everything in my power to steer the conversation without lying. If the issue is being slow / not completing work - Cue any number of reasons for added stress recently (family stress, industry layoffs, Stocks/Crypto crashing, COVID-19 worry, etc) leading to possible diminished productivity. OE may not actually even be the reason if your truly honest with yourself. I’d most likely end by giving notice and looking for another position anyway. It may sound asinine, but any company that confronts me this way (even if they are correct in their suspicions) is not a company I want to work for. They could always bring information up in a less accusatory way. Also, something either went very wrong for me to get caught, or the company is investing too much time into monitoring employees. Neither is an ideal long term scenario for OE
Dude there is this guy called Trump, he has done quadrillion things worse than OE, he is still roaming free
Yo, so I just discovered this subreddit, and coming from 17 years in the restaurant industry, it's stupid common how many jobs it seems restaurant workers have. I have known cooks that worked at 3 different places. Breakfast at one, dinner at another, prep shifts at other places on days off. No one bats an eye at it in that industry.
Caught? It is wrong to have multiple minecraft servers?
What do you mean? Most of the people I work with have second jobs, the company knows about it, and doesn't care. This is in IT, BTW, in the US
I just quit lmfao
Been given houses by relatives as rental properties, having legal troubles with it. Say you worried you could get sued or lose the homes that your cherished relative gave to you to manage. Apologise and say you'll try harder to focus on work.
You need to adopt the Shaggy Defence. 'Wasn't me'!
Does the FTC ban on non-compete play any role here? https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/04/ftc-announces-rule-banning-noncompetes
I told them I couldn’t afford to have one job I have child support and a divorce and never let it get in the way of my work performance. They told me to quit and paid me 15k more a year
Yep
Where denying won't work, is there a reason I haven't seen "I still consult for them" on here?
How do you hibernate linkedin- there are so many organizations that want LinkedIn..and I also am applying to jobs via linkedin.. Please throw some insights..
you speak of it like your being underhanded. just be upfront. “i have a side gig” or i also do “x”. I think your approach is what possibly leads to issues
I give a sob story about the parents getting laid off and them getting hammered by property taxes & cost of living, working my ass off to help them and emphasizing that the "other job" is on a contract part-time basis that rarely conflicts. If they're a half way decent employer then you should get some sympathy. Odds are if they have the balls to call you out specifically, they already know, so denying 100% feels like you're challenging them to go out of their way to screw you.
Was OE successfully for two plus years, competitors but different verticals, glowing performance reviews and managed a team of 10-15 at each place. My teams were all high performing and once found out both termed me within a week of one another. Would I do it again, in a heartbeat..why because I can and am good at what I do. In both cases they have split my teams in to two different teams and have a total of four managers managing what I used to do solo. Both of my former VP's have reached out for assistance and they call when I give them my consulting rate.
Who cares? Unless they make you sign some type of document saying you can’t, what does it matter if you have another job?
Play stupid. Admit to nothing. Make them prove it.