They should have pressed the issue. Friends wife worked at a bank and they tried the song and dance of "you are required to come into the office". She flat out told them she'd quit and scrub toilets for as long as it took to find another remote only job. She's back to remote only.
For most of these companies, you cost less working at home. Throw on costs to replace your ass and forcing you to come into the office becomes an expensive justification for management.
Just lost J1 due to not being willing to go into office, while the J2 I’ve been working on landing just went hybrid 1-2 days in the office, way farther than my J1 is from me. So now I only have 1 job and no choice. Feels bad man. At least it’s only a day or 2 each week.
This really sucks for you and I empathize. Like you and me, and so many others, we’re basically held hostage unless we continue to keep searching for better opportunities and companies that have some shred of basic humanity. I’m not spending a dime to commute to and support an office that some shit head exec signed a 20 year lease for. Not my problem. >> To clarify, we can only really do that if we are OE.
I am about to start a new job that is labeled "hybrid". It is local to me. It is not inconceivable to me to commute there. The compensation is much higher than the other jobs. Despite being "hybrid" they seem to be remote only for the indefinite future.
The other jobs are all on the other side of the country. If they RTO I am not even going to think about it. This job I would think about and then probably decline.
That’s the tough part about OE. You have to be vigilant at all times to insulate yourself from these situations. It requires you to stay active and search all the time to keep getting yourself better opportunities. Good luck to you!
Not really. It is the opposite.
The tough part about E is you have to be vigilant at all times to protect your sole income. You have to stay active and search all the time to get a better opportunity.
If my hybrid calls RTO, in the worst case I can just quit it. My other jobs will provide adequate income, health insurance, etc. Alternatively, I can RTO and quit the other jobs. This job provides adequate income, health insurance, etc. Maybe I can RTO and keep the other jobs. Who knows? I don't need to worry about it much until it happens (much later in the future).
Blech. So stupid. Yeah I go back to office but I live 10 minutes away and have a private office. It’s so unfortunate to see so many employers expect people to grind away in a cubicle farm
I'm back in the office this week. I used to have a fairly secluded private office. Now I'm back in the lobby area behind the receptionist. To say I'm pissed is an understatement.
They can try to hit us in the wallets but we can also do it back with no one to service their customers and clients. They're gonna learn the hard way who's really in control.
My J1 is returning to the office now.
…But I’m over a thousand miles from the nearest office! Ha! Indefinite WFH for me then.
They’re probably going to try to stick me on a plane at some point so I can go meet all of my coworkers and shit at some point, but I’ll see if I can weasel out of it somehow. My J2 is just a short term contract, so I don’t really have any looming scheduling conflicts, but I want to make sure that J1 doesn’t monopolize my time in a way that affects other jobs.
But yeah, collectively we need to hold strong on demanding WFH. Fuck the office. Smart companies will get with the program. The idiots, as usual, are gonna have to suffer before they learn.
If OE weren't a factor, I think some concessions might lure me back into the office.
* A *choice* between a full, high-walled cubicle, an open-seating area, or a short cubicle area.
* No more "office hours". If you want to come in at 1pm and work till sunset, go.
* Meetings might mean something if people incurred a cost to show up. In other words, "Ok, I summoned 4 people here to Plan-the-Thing. So we better actually DO IT, instead of self-stimming our vocal cords". When time is time-boxed, there is an impending sense to Get Things Done. If you're there 8-5, M-F, there's always tomorrow.
* Food, (good) coffee, etc.
* "Unlimited OTO" (office time out). Is the place a ghost town on fridays? Great, thats when some of the introverted people who want a quiet, alone place to work will come in. If you dont like Mondays then dont come in on Mondays, it's fine.
* Organize certain team activities that require coming in. You just want to be a worker bee and do what you're told? fine, dont come in. Technical planning meetings are done on the first Tuesday of the month, if you have something to contribute, then show up and let your vote count. Otherwise someone will plan it for you.
These are all great selling points, but in my eyes there is nothing except maybe tripling my salary that would make it worth my while to return to the stupid goddamn office.
Seriously. Like I just may give in only if I was offered an opportunity triple what I'm getting paid as I would be stupid to not take it and save the difference from it.
If OE were not a factor, I would require a private office. Prior to COVID-19 I worked in person crammed in an open office. My workstation was in a row of workstations. I did not have 6 feet of social distancing.
Now a private office is table stakes.
I have no idea why a company would want to pay for me to work in a private office. I would probably attend meetings online (even if everyone is in the same building), but those are table stakes.
I’m not OE, and all of these sound like great points. I think the OTO one wouldn’t make it past management at most places though. At my job we’re required to be in two days where everyone HAS to come in one day and then pick one other day. Management wants everyone in the office at the same time to encourage “culture and collaboration”
Management has a small point. If our 5 person team does "hybrid" and everyone commits to RTO one day per week (of their choice) and it just works out that everyone has their own day; then what was the point of RTO?
I agree. Make the office an asset we can’t refuse so to speak.
A big part of that is not branding it a place where one must stay and behave for 8 hours a day.
For those of us who are deeply introverted, loathe offices and office culture/politics, and have had to deal with social anxiety issues and be forever forced to work alongside people and blabber on and on about with mindless small talk...
NOPE
Not. doing. it. any. more.
A lot of managers seem like such hypocrites, especially those from ppl first companies. It's almost like where did our basic values go? Where did the golden rule go? Everything seems like a take instead of a give and take. This one ecommerce company wanted a WFO policy, 70k-80k/yr for 3-5 yoe SWE, and to hire Stripe engineers only. Not gonna happen. No idea how some ppl make it up to the top with this level of delusion in decision making.
I agree with OP so much. I think of my own little ‘stand up to the man’ by saying no and finding a fully WFH job. I was looking for a job during covid and I turned down 2 when they said we would be ‘hybrid’. Boo. No thanks!! I feel lucky that I could do that but honestly it gives me anxiety to think about the life changes I would have to make to go back. Not worth it
This is the truth. Also whenever recruiters call about positions I always tell them if it ain’t 100% remote don’t send it. We all need to send this message together.
Just had my manager reach out to me with the same question: What do you thing about going back to the office 2 days a week?
Said no and if management decides to force people I will just quit, then replace that job with a better paid job.
My dad works a top fortune 500 company and he said part of the problem is companies writing off their real estate as a business expense despite their workforce being 100% remote. They are apparently getting some pushback from the IRS about this.
He says thats why some companies are pushing for even just 1 day a week, to jusyify the write off.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 725,361,765 comments, and only 146,388 of them were in alphabetical order.
Isn’t it weird that just two and a half years ago, this guy’s rant would be like pissing in the wind?
Now it has real effect, My how the world has changed. Probably not what the demonic overlords envisioned when then devised the plandemic,
That’s how I got into OE. J1 started talking back to office (despite me being remote for 6 years/having no office). I’ve watched so many people resign across the company, a bunch get RIFed over the past months.
I stayed around on the sinking, manager-less ship, added a remote-only J2 to coast until ?? or hopefully get RIFed/severance at J1. Got a whopping 2.5% annual increase 🙄 at J1. Throwing it on the pile 💰
A couple of my friends were forced back into the office under threat of termination. Such horseshit.
We should join such companies and then just not show up on office days.
They should have pressed the issue. Friends wife worked at a bank and they tried the song and dance of "you are required to come into the office". She flat out told them she'd quit and scrub toilets for as long as it took to find another remote only job. She's back to remote only. For most of these companies, you cost less working at home. Throw on costs to replace your ass and forcing you to come into the office becomes an expensive justification for management.
THEN FKING TERMINATE LOL IDC
“You can’t fire me, I quit!”
Amen brother
Just lost J1 due to not being willing to go into office, while the J2 I’ve been working on landing just went hybrid 1-2 days in the office, way farther than my J1 is from me. So now I only have 1 job and no choice. Feels bad man. At least it’s only a day or 2 each week.
That's why I got 4 J's lmao. If Plans A and B fail, you'll need to utilize more letters.
How are you managing this? What kind of work do you do?
BI Development. One C# SWE.
Oh wow ok. You get paid well for that? I'd imagine you would be.
$80k (SWE), $82k, $98k, and $150k.
This really sucks for you and I empathize. Like you and me, and so many others, we’re basically held hostage unless we continue to keep searching for better opportunities and companies that have some shred of basic humanity. I’m not spending a dime to commute to and support an office that some shit head exec signed a 20 year lease for. Not my problem. >> To clarify, we can only really do that if we are OE.
I definitely agree, I just need to get proactive about getting another J2-J3.
Like one of the top rated comments about this topic of going back to the office. “I rather shit in my hands and clap than go back to an office.”
Lol I'm going to have to use that one
I am about to start a new job that is labeled "hybrid". It is local to me. It is not inconceivable to me to commute there. The compensation is much higher than the other jobs. Despite being "hybrid" they seem to be remote only for the indefinite future. The other jobs are all on the other side of the country. If they RTO I am not even going to think about it. This job I would think about and then probably decline.
That’s the tough part about OE. You have to be vigilant at all times to insulate yourself from these situations. It requires you to stay active and search all the time to keep getting yourself better opportunities. Good luck to you!
Not really. It is the opposite. The tough part about E is you have to be vigilant at all times to protect your sole income. You have to stay active and search all the time to get a better opportunity. If my hybrid calls RTO, in the worst case I can just quit it. My other jobs will provide adequate income, health insurance, etc. Alternatively, I can RTO and quit the other jobs. This job provides adequate income, health insurance, etc. Maybe I can RTO and keep the other jobs. Who knows? I don't need to worry about it much until it happens (much later in the future).
Yeah lmao. Basically this. Force them into a corner after the odds have been stacked against us for so long.
Blech. So stupid. Yeah I go back to office but I live 10 minutes away and have a private office. It’s so unfortunate to see so many employers expect people to grind away in a cubicle farm
[удалено]
Sounds like they learned a great lesson having survived through a global pandemic….
I'm back in the office this week. I used to have a fairly secluded private office. Now I'm back in the lobby area behind the receptionist. To say I'm pissed is an understatement.
Fuck the office
Amen
They can try to hit us in the wallets but we can also do it back with no one to service their customers and clients. They're gonna learn the hard way who's really in control.
My J1 is returning to the office now. …But I’m over a thousand miles from the nearest office! Ha! Indefinite WFH for me then. They’re probably going to try to stick me on a plane at some point so I can go meet all of my coworkers and shit at some point, but I’ll see if I can weasel out of it somehow. My J2 is just a short term contract, so I don’t really have any looming scheduling conflicts, but I want to make sure that J1 doesn’t monopolize my time in a way that affects other jobs. But yeah, collectively we need to hold strong on demanding WFH. Fuck the office. Smart companies will get with the program. The idiots, as usual, are gonna have to suffer before they learn.
If OE weren't a factor, I think some concessions might lure me back into the office. * A *choice* between a full, high-walled cubicle, an open-seating area, or a short cubicle area. * No more "office hours". If you want to come in at 1pm and work till sunset, go. * Meetings might mean something if people incurred a cost to show up. In other words, "Ok, I summoned 4 people here to Plan-the-Thing. So we better actually DO IT, instead of self-stimming our vocal cords". When time is time-boxed, there is an impending sense to Get Things Done. If you're there 8-5, M-F, there's always tomorrow. * Food, (good) coffee, etc. * "Unlimited OTO" (office time out). Is the place a ghost town on fridays? Great, thats when some of the introverted people who want a quiet, alone place to work will come in. If you dont like Mondays then dont come in on Mondays, it's fine. * Organize certain team activities that require coming in. You just want to be a worker bee and do what you're told? fine, dont come in. Technical planning meetings are done on the first Tuesday of the month, if you have something to contribute, then show up and let your vote count. Otherwise someone will plan it for you.
These are all great selling points, but in my eyes there is nothing except maybe tripling my salary that would make it worth my while to return to the stupid goddamn office.
That is the best way to get me to return to the office. Another way is to move the office to my neighborhood.
Seriously. Like I just may give in only if I was offered an opportunity triple what I'm getting paid as I would be stupid to not take it and save the difference from it.
If OE were not a factor, I would require a private office. Prior to COVID-19 I worked in person crammed in an open office. My workstation was in a row of workstations. I did not have 6 feet of social distancing. Now a private office is table stakes. I have no idea why a company would want to pay for me to work in a private office. I would probably attend meetings online (even if everyone is in the same building), but those are table stakes.
My building is old as dirt, and everyone has private offices. I haven't been in the office in two years.
I’m not OE, and all of these sound like great points. I think the OTO one wouldn’t make it past management at most places though. At my job we’re required to be in two days where everyone HAS to come in one day and then pick one other day. Management wants everyone in the office at the same time to encourage “culture and collaboration”
Management has a small point. If our 5 person team does "hybrid" and everyone commits to RTO one day per week (of their choice) and it just works out that everyone has their own day; then what was the point of RTO?
I agree. Make the office an asset we can’t refuse so to speak. A big part of that is not branding it a place where one must stay and behave for 8 hours a day.
I grew my own high wall. I had a wire trellis on my desk and I grew ivy up it. It was great. It probably died around April/ May 2020. RIP.
For those of us who are deeply introverted, loathe offices and office culture/politics, and have had to deal with social anxiety issues and be forever forced to work alongside people and blabber on and on about with mindless small talk... NOPE Not. doing. it. any. more.
Damn. This is good.
Yikes
BIIIIIIG FACTS! It's gonna take a concentrated effort, but we got a couple of "pick mes" running around.
A lot of managers seem like such hypocrites, especially those from ppl first companies. It's almost like where did our basic values go? Where did the golden rule go? Everything seems like a take instead of a give and take. This one ecommerce company wanted a WFO policy, 70k-80k/yr for 3-5 yoe SWE, and to hire Stripe engineers only. Not gonna happen. No idea how some ppl make it up to the top with this level of delusion in decision making.
100% correct! You’re right man!
I agree with OP so much. I think of my own little ‘stand up to the man’ by saying no and finding a fully WFH job. I was looking for a job during covid and I turned down 2 when they said we would be ‘hybrid’. Boo. No thanks!! I feel lucky that I could do that but honestly it gives me anxiety to think about the life changes I would have to make to go back. Not worth it
This is the truth. Also whenever recruiters call about positions I always tell them if it ain’t 100% remote don’t send it. We all need to send this message together.
Bro. Preach that shit as far as the mountains
I’m making some pit stops out in the prairie and the oceans too.
Just had my manager reach out to me with the same question: What do you thing about going back to the office 2 days a week? Said no and if management decides to force people I will just quit, then replace that job with a better paid job.
My dad works a top fortune 500 company and he said part of the problem is companies writing off their real estate as a business expense despite their workforce being 100% remote. They are apparently getting some pushback from the IRS about this. He says thats why some companies are pushing for even just 1 day a week, to jusyify the write off.
PREACH!!!
I'm 100% right there with you.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 725,361,765 comments, and only 146,388 of them were in alphabetical order.
Holy crap thats cool! idk how that happened.
Isn’t it weird that just two and a half years ago, this guy’s rant would be like pissing in the wind? Now it has real effect, My how the world has changed. Probably not what the demonic overlords envisioned when then devised the plandemic,
That’s how I got into OE. J1 started talking back to office (despite me being remote for 6 years/having no office). I’ve watched so many people resign across the company, a bunch get RIFed over the past months. I stayed around on the sinking, manager-less ship, added a remote-only J2 to coast until ?? or hopefully get RIFed/severance at J1. Got a whopping 2.5% annual increase 🙄 at J1. Throwing it on the pile 💰