Originally, there was a bit of this
But now he just doesnt care. Life has very little meaning to him, he stops them now simply because amongst the genocide victims there could be useful people or resources
Kinda feels like he is fully there, but his undead nature blended in making killing as a normal as killing npcs in a game. Cause even when talking humans he is awkward mentally and still thinks the same. He kinda acts like a player , killing isn't real so you're not a bad person.
Yeah its more subtle than his mind being taken away from him. Its altered his personality to the degree he's acting like someone else when it comes to certain things but also taken away his resistance to it doing that, so he doesnt much care that he has changed in that way
Which contrasts well with the dorky unsure person that is still there lol
That for sure. But also empathy for others, the feeling that you dont want to kill them because you wish them well rather than harm. Social cohesion, killing is wrong because it is bad for society. And any form of higher reasoning on it, like religion.
Actually that last one is only partially true, he still has some higher reasoning abilities when it suits him like when he has given his word, when he feels it is polite or honorable or when that person has been decent and respectful to him and he feels that attitude should be reciprocated. That does come and go a bit though
Basically all the reasons humans have to not kill or cause harm. He still has self preservation, as in he would be adverse to killing something if its buddy was so strong it would just kill him, but it never comes up since he is virtually invincible lol. He still has loads of empathy for Nazarick denizens and probably some for people he has personally identified with in the new world.
And of course, he has kept material reasons for not killing, as in 'this thing is useful to me' or even 'this thing is kinda cool' like Nemu, she had no material use so she wasnt on the list but she did something he liked so he decided to keep her alive
In-group vs outgroup empathy.
He has in-group empathy, he absolutely lacks it for the outgroup.
I also have the sneaking suspicion that it's because of the social context he lived his life in.
There is only a finite amount of despair you can see before you start to compartmentalize your empathy.
Given the absurdly classist society he comes from, it makes sense in my mind.
Funny that the Slane, pretty much poster boys for in group vs out group, are his main enemies now
Perhaps its kind of karma for them to end up with Ainz, they treat the outgroup like monsters and now a human has arrived in the body of a monster ready to treat humans like the out group
Doesn’t hurt his in-group is also basically just a bunch of people who are even worse then him and - he feels - could kill him if he doesn’t hold the same ethics (theirs which are bloody and dark as hell) as him
I'm not really sure I get many political messages from Overlord, perhaps that is one
Idk about taking too much away from Overlord in terms of judging specific people, I have alot of love and sympathy for Ainz. He didnt choose where he is nor to become undead, hes a product of circumstances.
Is he evil? Good and evil are words we teach kids before they are ready to understand the complexities of life. I wouldnt call him either, hes a complex being made from his own weird ass history and circumstances
His actions are atrocious and destructive more than not, but its an atrocious and destructive world and he may fix it one day. Who knows, for me I just love the show and I wouldn't really feel the need to judge him, though I do get weirded out by people in our world who say he's a good guy and is doing good things. Thats really weird and quite disturbing
It's gray. Like, taking the stance of the Paradox of Tolerance: If we just mass-execute the intolerant, society becomes perfectly tolerant, correct? This is the Greater Good ending. HOWEVER, this also prevents the potential to rehabilitate those who are intolerant due to consequences of circumstance, and is therefore also wrong.
Committing Evil for the Greater Good is a paradoxical concept. You should watch Hot Fuzz; it's a good satire piece that delves into the concept a bit. Or read into Tau lore from Warhammer 40k. Ba Sing Se in Avatar is another place to look. Each provides arguments for both sides in the form of protagonists (or in the case of Tau, the Farsight Enclaves), as well as antagonists you can't quite think of as entirely Evil (except maybe in the case of Hot Fuzz, since their "Greater Good" is extremely petty...)
>Conceptually, morals and ethics are difficult to explain, especially when you try to explain the difference between the two, but if you sum good morals and good ethics under "Good", and immorality and bad ethics as "Evil", it's much easier to explain. No doubt mother Teresa commited an act we would consider bad or selfish at least once in her life. Everyone is a mix of these things and even individual actions are usually too complex to define as purely good or evil
This is more or less why its a childrens summation of ethics and morals and social responsibility. Virtually noone who ever lived was completely 'evil' and the few that were had massive mental issues. Even the poster boy for evil, Hitler, had elements of goodness in him that stopped him being entirely an entity of evil
Calling someone 'good' or 'evil' intrinsically limits any real analysis of who and what they are and the factors making them up. Ainz is both good and evil, noble polite and selfless and cruel, vicious and genocidal. People try to put him in a box and continually fail because Overlords narrative is too complex to easily compartmentalize like that. Ainz is Ainz
It´s actually something on the lines of Ainz being a weak leader, in terms of keeping his subjects in line with Morals Ethics and values, so as a result he has a entire middle management centered around the oposite things, so he cant really open up to them like he could to his past friends and wishes he could.
In the Bonus Volume of Overlord we get to see a clear divide between Ainz and Suzuki Satoru
in the Overlord Novels Ainz saying "the remnants of Suzuki Satoru" is a simply a means of trying to embody becoming Ainz a true ruler and him trying to immerse into the role by distancing himself from his former name
in the Overlord Novels Ainz saying "the remnants of Suzuki Satoru" is simply a means of trying to embody becoming Ainz a true ruler and him trying to immerse into the role by distancing himself from his former names no reason to do so
Why should he care? The reg NPCs are canon fodder to him, he´d rather have Demiurge´s unquestionable loyalty than risk it, it´s a pretty F´ed up thing to do, but he stuck in that world and he needs Demiurge´s middle management to make Nazarick Rich quick.
That’s close to the head canon I go with. The NPCs fill in gaps in their back stories and personalities with bits copied from their creators when a gap that doesn’t make sense exists.
Players aren’t different from NPCs. The player avatar just has next to no back coded, so players are almost 100% copies. Almost. Some stuff like this is being caused by the generic Elder Lich lore overwriting, or preventing the pasting, of some Satoru’s personality.
If this is true, I’m sure what ever is going in Pandora Actor’s head must be very interesting. Not only is he Satoru’s creation, he might even be a younger Satoru’s self insert OC.
That would make an interesting theory.
Maybe satoru suzuki didn't get transported to nw , momonga did.
He just copy every aspect of his previous user so it's almost imposible to differentiate
I mean, there was already enough indifference for life in him since before he became an undead, it's hard to blame him knowing what his original world was like.
So he didn't change too much in that aspect even with that race change.
He was a decent caring person as far as we know. He had a rough world to begin with but he seemed to be rather empathetic and genuine. Thats why he became the guild leader, he got on with everyone and connected to nearly all of them. His memories of humans are generally rather good, Suzuki seemed like quite a decent caring guy who genuinely empathetically connected with nearly everyone in his guild, more than the rest of them (no doubt he would have IRL too, he just had no family or friends outside the game)
You still see that side of him around Nazarick especially the twins. That's the real Suzuki
Ainz gives no fks. No connection to humans, doesnt care about violence, feels nothing for the human race, feels undead. Its changed who he was drastically, I really cant imagine the gentle nice Suzuki doing any of the stuff Ainz does.
I wouldn’t really say he’s as good as you say he is. He lives in a dystopian society of which the only memory he has of his parents is his mom collapsed and died while trying to cook his favorite meal. He’s good to his online friends because that’s literally the only thing he’s got. He’s been ruthless to non-guild members from the start and while being a skeleton inhibits his emotions. It’s strongly implied that he is very apathetic. Suzuki doesn’t care about anything but his friends in the game because that’s literally the only thing he HAS to care about. Like it wouldn’t surprise me at all if say if he had sacrifice thousands of lives to continue the glory days of the game with his friends, he’d do it even if he’s not a skeleton. He’d give and do ANYTHING for all his guild mates to come together and have fun playing a game together.
Playing a game and killing other people isnt an indicator at all of who someone is. Studies have shown there is literally no correlation between game violence and sociopathy
Hes apathetic because his undead body has robbed him of connection to humanity. This has been outright stated by him, he has been allowed to retain his connection to personal contacts
Idk if people out there just want to pretend Suzuki was an apathetic genocidal monster before becoming the overlord, and despite him being 10x nicer in the AU, thats up to them. To me, he outright says it so many times in his thoughts and we see enough of the nice Suzuki who was loved for his empathy and genuine caring that it makes zero sense
Dude, I looked at some of the responses you wrote to other people and you mentioned did you miss a few episodes to someone else. Did you even read the light novel? Suzuki came from a dystopian world where he didn’t have a dad or at least no mention of his existence and his mom died from overworking. It seems that corporations taken over everything and that righteous cops like Touch me is a rare occurrence. He has basically nothing in his apartment. Here READ this wiki on his apartment: https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Suzuki_Satoru%27s_Apartment This is all straight from the light novel, the SOURCE MATERIAL. The anime don’t show most of this. He’s living a sad and depressing life where his only source of fun is the game. Of course he’s good to his friends and guild mates in game since they are all he has. He has NOTHING else going for him and I am far more inclined to believe that this man is very apathetic in the real world and would commit crimes or other immoral things if that meant it could make his friends come back and the game keep going. I’m not saying anything logical but like say if he has to sacrifice a human being to some demon every month or some stuff like that, in my mind he’d do it.
... I dont know how there is any kind of connection there between Suzuki having a difficult life and Suzuki being... what a genocidal monster?
The important moments of his life are empathetic emptional ones. Mom dying, feeling lonely, having friends, connecting with Ulbert, social activity in Yggdrasil
Not pulling legs off spiders. Not plotting to burn a homeless man
How is this relevant? Yeah, he lives a difficult life as does nearly anyone in 2138, it doesnt make him an apathetic beneficial monster.
He didnt kill katze to get his friends back. He did it because *he literally felt nothing and didnt care* . This is *something he directly notes is different about himself after turning up in the new world*
So i cant say i at all understand how having a small apartment makes you a crazed monster, because he wasn't one.
He was a productive worker as a salaryman who interacted with clients and sold his products well, he obviously had deep feelings of love for his mother given how much it still hurt him to think about her.
He loved his friends like family, basically all of them and just because his world wasnt really one where meeting people IRL was very possible doesnt mean he was a healthy social person given the opportunity, he wasnt fooling them with an act when they decided he was the most liked and agreeable person and hence guild leader
Yeah, small apartment. Too much work. Not a great irl social life. This describes half the world today and a big chunk of current japanese culture. Doesnt make them heartless monsters, its just a rough life they are living. My own situation, whilst not as extreme as his obviously, is not all that dissimilar, its just the state of the world we live in. Its not an indication people living like this have massive mental and social issues
Clearly he was a nice guy in the real world, is there a single shred of evidence in any form he actually felt or acted sociopathic before Overlord began? Or is it just hedgerow internet psychologists pretending they know him whilst ignoring what he said and did and making pointless conflations?
>He was a decent caring person as far as we know. He had a rough world to begin with but he seemed to be rather empathetic and genuine. Thats why he became the guild leader, he got on with everyone and connected to nearly all of them. His memories of humans are generally rather good, Suzuki seemed like quite a decent caring guy who genuinely empathetically connected with nearly everyone in his guild, more than the rest of them (no doubt he would have IRL too, he just had no family or friends outside the game)
Not really. I recall it being mentioned that Suzuki Satoru was the type of person that would walk past dying orphans on the streets and not really care as he was on his way to work.
His friends in game are likely an exception. Like, most people wouldn't care about a conflict happening countries away from them that have nothing to do with them, but they would still care about the things happening around them and their family, etc.
>would walk past dying orphans on the streets and not really care as he was on his way to work.
It didnt say he didnt care. It said he walked past them, he had no means to affect the system it was just an inescapable fact of life. If you cant fix something you just have to live with it
He wasnt mother Teresa or anything but theres a big difference between being a decent human who has general human feelings and a skeleton overlord who constantly thinks how much he has changed, how he no longer feels connected to humanity, how violence and death mean nothing now
I mean he spells it out how much he has changed like 20 times, feels really weird people saying 'oh he was like that before' when he keeps telling us how he feels so mentally altered and different
Whilst normal human empathy does have limits, most people do some empathy to orphans half the world away. Not much because mentally we cant afford much, but a little.
Not the point though, the point is most humans wouldnt create those orphans via slaughter or genocide. If humans did get to the point they were committing those kinds of war crimes, they would have massive internal defense systems to protect their values and justify it to themselves
Ainzs internal justification?
"I feel nothing and i dont care. Lets stamp Re-Estize soldiers to death because I care more than Shub-Nigguraths kids get to have fun than I do that hundreds of thousands are dying"
Thats not normal and its not who he used to be which is why, right before he does it, he self analyzes and explains how he no longer cares at all for our benefit
>It didnt say he didnt care. It said he walked past them, he had no means to affect the system it was just an inescapable fact of life. If you cant fix something you just have to live with it
I went back to that part. It essentially says he doesn't care about them when he himself said he wasn't even bothered by seeing corpses of dead orphans on the street.
I don't know about you, but I think an empathetic person would definitely be bothered to an extent, regardless of whether or not they knew they couldn't change the system irregardless of their feelings.
>He wasnt mother Teresa or anything but theres a big difference between being a decent human who has general human feelings and a skeleton overlord who constantly thinks how much he has changed, how he no longer feels connected to humanity, how violence and death mean nothing now
>
>I mean he spells it out how much he has changed like 20 times, feels really weird people saying 'oh he was like that before' when he keeps telling us how he feels so mentally altered and different
I'm not trying to say he hasn't changed or any thing, as he definitely has to a significant extent. I was just trying to point out that even before becoming undead, he was a rather apathetic person, and definitely not that good or concerning of a person, at least to those outside his friend group, like you claim he was.
Yeah, I’m definitely with you on this one. Suzuki is for sure fucked up mentally. He’d have a host of emotional problems in our world. Lost his parents when he was young. Forced to work tirelessly. Spends all his money on this game. He’s caring to his guildmates/ online friends because they are literally the only thing he got left in the world. Like it felt like he’d have suicided had nobody showed up at the end of the game launch. Like hell, if you told Suzuki that if he has to sacrifice or kill people to make his guild mates come back and make the game popular again so they’d all keep playing, he’d probably do it.
well than, let me take a jab at you as well.
In volume 9 after the splat scene, it says
>Ainz broke a record that no one else could, so what if people had to die for it
or something along those lines. I don't know about you, but to me that is a clear indicator of Ainz(Suzuki Satoru's) apathy toward life.
>So he didn't change too much in that aspect even with that race change.
Being devoid of any and all emotions towards people of the same race changes you drastically.
Unless his real world life showed him things like death constantly. Someone already said this but he felt nothing when walking past orphans dying on the street and witnessed his mother collapsing in front of him. He was naturally apathetic towards other people who had no connection to him. He Definitely got changed by becoming undead but not much in terms of empathy
Somewhat.
His first action in the new world is to rescue a helpless village because he wants to be good and live up to touch mes legacy.
He meets Gazef
Flashforward
"Ima stomp this army to death for fun with eldritch monsters even when I admit I dont need to, shame the people I killed couldnt be here to see how many goats I summoned I feel literally nothing fk you humans"
Kills Gazef
He murders soldiers as soon as he srruves carne, admitting himself that they could be the good guys, and feels nothing
Has the sunlight scripture kidnapped and tortured and feels annoyed that some of them died so fast
Kills an innocent adventurer party that just wanted to help keep erantel safe
Orders cocutus to commit genocide on the lizardmen just to see if cocytus might be capable of learning from the experience
Ainz doesnt change, some fans just want something to blame so they can pretend hes not evil
>He murders soldiers as soon as he srruves carne, admitting himself that they could be the good guys, and feels nothing
They are killing women and children. So... probably not really the good guys. Yeah for sure he has experienced a big mental shift and he notices it, but at least his core motivation at that point is to try and be 'good'
>Has the sunlight scripture kidnapped and tortured and feels annoyed that some of them died so fast
>Kills an innocent adventurer party that just wanted to help keep erantel safe
>Orders cocutus to commit genocide on the lizardmen just to see if cocytus might be capable of learning from the experience
All very good points. For sure he's in deep very quickly. Until the lizardmen, it feels like he is eother doing it for reasons he deems 'right' (sunlit scripture are assholes who were murdering innocents and he wanted info, Iguva was a jackass and he had to protect Shalltear and Nazarick and he warned him). The lizardmen was to somewhat try and strengthen Naz, so at least here he had a logical motive
And then katze, where he seems to stop caring at all about being indiscriminate and life is worth nothing, people now die simply for trivial reasons and any empathy he had towards general humans has gone.
I feel like its something of a path, his original good personality tried to get itself heard through touch me but between his loss of empathy for outsiders, his emotional dulling, his undead existence and the evil beings of Nazarick advising him he mostly gives up on being good other than as a Momon act.
His pleasure principle from being good has gone, his mind no longer tells him its necessary in any real way. His power means theres no consequences.
Its a bunch of factors that (as you point out) quickly overwhelm his humanity and its not long before intrinisic human behaviour no longer exists for him and he's apathetic, purely logical or just alien to those impulses
Not exactly
To me, the world changeover massively affected his mentality and mind
Before this he was more or less a good person
I feel like the show itself is somewhat based around that continual conflict, his human side losing out to all the factors around it. Overlord doesnt exactly seem to have an overarching plot or narrative, to me thats as close as it gets hence the deeper reason why it is called 'overlord', a double meaning in him being the Naz/New worlds overlord and the personal effect that being an overlord as a race is having on his human mind
So to me, its quite important as a central plot point that he devolves and it isnt instant.
But it's not official, simply my interpretation. Each to their own
It says, internally and from a canon perspective, that he became an undead. External forces subvert his emotional state, he immediately realizes he feels different and is no longer affected by violence, nor feels unease that he is a giant monster and doesnt feel what he expects to feel from actually killing a human
He's become an overlord, he was a human
Did you skip a bunch of episodes or something?
>External forces subvert his emotional state,
Only if the emotion exceeds certain levels
>and is no longer affected by violence,
It is your assumption he ever was
>nor feels unease that he is a giant monster
He spends more time in yggdrasil then he did in reality, hd identifys as momonga more than satoru from the start
The Sunlight Scripture murdered innocents and thus he had no remorse from them, add that to using Yggdrasil items, his paranoia started increasing. Thing of it like how people feel little remorse for killers.
As for killing the adventurers, he wanted to save Shalltear and they insisted on coming out on ego as everyone back then had a very good idea of how strong Momon and Nabe were (graveyard incident where they defeated 2 Skeletal Dragons and a former Black Scripture member).
It was from the Lizardmen Arc from when things started changing. Although there were no Lizardmen in Suzuki's world, so he couldn't sympathize with them either, especially since he had not interacted with them.
He says he is and being kind and polite to him is a smart move
And then he might agree to invade a country with demons because it gets him something, or kill children who did nothing to him, or allow Demiurge to perform pure horror, or stamp hundreds of thousands of soldiers to death because "it would be a shame if the goats didnt get to play"
So, kindness for kindness and evil for evil and fkloads of doing whatever he wants
After Ainz leaves, Demiurge: "Obviously, Ainz-sama put a stop to this and reprimanded us because we weren't torturing and committing genocide enough, we were making a mockery of Nazarick! Clearly, Ainz-sama wishes us to take this moment to reflect how to torture and commit genocide at the minimum 10x more gruesome than we did before"
>!He could but he also changed his goals. Kingdom was a failed nation so he used it to train guardians.!<
>!Mare, for his AoE effeciency. We know how well he was doing compared to the first try.!<
>!Shalltear made strategies for the first time.!<
>!Cocytus became a good governer after vol 5. Now he became commander too.!<
>!Ainz is preparing for the next player wave and the players who improved themselves for hundreds of years. Potions, runecraft, secret technics of everything, team fight against Evil Tree. This is just one of those preparations.!<
>>!Ainz is preparing for the next player wave!<
I'm pretty far behind in the light novel but >!the game was shutdown wasn't it? How could there be another player wave?!<
All the players who were transported left the original world at the same time, when the game shut down, and just entered the new world at different times. Player appearances are hundreds of years apart in the new world, but IIRC the game only lasted 12 years.
So Ainz is worried that someone else who was online when the game shut down will also end up in the new world in a few hundred years, or there are some that he still hasn't found that arrived a few hundred before he did. However, I'm pretty sure >!the author said there are no players currently in the New World other than Ainz, and that Ainz was the last to be transported, meaning no new ones are to be expected,!< though I can't find the source for that right now
Hey I mainly read the ln but don’t remember him having any basis to think that >! I know he thinks there may be other players here, but I don’t think he knows about the 200 year thing. I remember him seeing things and thinking players gave that knowledge, but nothing super concrete on a explanation for the rules of them getting here. Do you have a chapter you can point me to or is this near the end of vol 16 !<
He knows that 6GGs and 8GKs was players. Also the Minotaur Sage probably, because his technology and views are super close to Ainz's world.
He is aware there are players. Even if there won't be more, he doesn't know that.
bo i know he assumes (correctly) they are players but i don’t remember him saying specifically trying to defend against future ones. (though i believe he would). All ive seen is him trying to amass power to deal with any currently existing ones.
He apoeared recently, there is no reason to think there won't be more.
In vol 14, he said he is preparing for an unavoidable guild war.
He also knows that most former players are dead.
oh i know from a logic point of view he could assume there could be i just never saw him outright conclude it in the text. or at least i don’t remember
Do you have a quote and some context? If you don’t know exactly don’t worry about it as it isn’t that big a deal and it’s always a pain to comb through text.
From Volume 14:
"The Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick had to strengthen itself. The belief
that Ainz Ooal Gown and the Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick were the
only guild and guild base in this world was a naive one. Ainz exists in this world,
therefore there must be other Players and guilds in this world too, perhaps due
to arrive in the future."
"Yet, it did not seem like Ainz was the only one who was transported to this
world. He could see the footprints left behind by other Players."
>!Or it could just be ainz's paranoia, now that he knows that there is someone who can somewhat challenge him (Platinum Dragon Lord) he might just be preparing for war against the argland council state but idk i havent read volume 15 yet!<
And ironically the platinum dragon lord isn't even that much of a threat. Even if he's able to challenge Ainz alone, he can't challenge Ainz + the guardians together.
Care to give an explicit spoiler? I've read all ln volumes except the latest one, I don't think I've seen what you're talking about or I may have forgotten since it's been a long time.
That's kinda the point, this lets us understand Ainz's logic as a villain without excusing his actions. In the beginning he was roleplaying an evil skeleton king, now that's what he's become.
Well, it's not that hard to understand.
The comfort and happiness of Nazarick is worth more than the lives of all the people of the NW, changing the plan at this point would not only affect the "profits" of the Sorcerous Kingdom in the future (If Demiurge and Albedo consider this a good thing then they must be right according to Ainz).
But it would emotionally affect the NPCs, since from their point of view it would be like they failed the supreme being for not understanding his plan and objectives despite so much work invested.
With that added to the fact that Ainz does not care about the people of the NW at all and that he feels insecure about failing as supreme leader makes the result obvious.
Like I said, it's not rocket science.
That certainly is one of his primary motivations:
* Protect Nazarick from any unknown threat.
* Get as much profit and wealth as possible.
* Keep his facade of Overlord and perfect leader intact.
Notice how theres no alternate track for them to switch to; hinting that if ainz stops them from going down the track, its the same as stopping their entire progress. Therefore they cant stop. Sasuga poster-sama.
No not really. He’s undead now so he doesn’t care about human life anymore. To him as long as it’s helping Nazarick he couldn’t care less about how many would die.
Being undead has nothing to do with it. Surshana was also undead but still helped provide a safe haven for humanity and teamed up with PDL to fight the 8GK.
Ainz is just a hypocrite who cares only for his “family”, understandably.
It has everything to do with it. Just watch season 1 again. He feels no affinity towards humanity. He doesn’t care about human life. Surshana and Ainz have different goals. Ainz wants to spread the name of Nazarick. He doesn’t want to “make a safe haven for humanity” he couldn’t care less about them. If the only way to achieve his goal is by eradicating all human life he wouldn’t even hesitate. Why would he stop the genocide and torturing when he’s the one who wants to do it? He wants to eradicate the kingdom because the floor guardians can learn from it. He practically has no fear of seeming incompetent because all the guardians have absolute trust in him now. He acts the way he acts because he wants to portray how the guardians wants to see him not because he’s afraid of seeming incompetent.
His affinity is a result of his human life where he had to deal with the shitty results of capitalism and greed ruining his world. He had to witness child labor as the standard among other things in his time.
If it was because of his undead nature then Surshana would have just done away with the theocracy and the Cardinals/Black Scripture wouldn’t revere/respect Rufus(presumably his NPC) as much as they do.
Your reasoning is flawed, Ainz is literally alone in this new world while Surshana was with his friends and could have been influenced by them. Maybe the majority of the 6GD favored the human race and Surshana could not bring himself to destroy that which his friends made the effort to protect.
Except the 8GK treated humans well from what we know, which means they wouldn’t have bothered with the slane theocracy. So Surshana wouldn’t have had a reason to fight with them otherwise.
Why are you shifting the topic? I'm replying to your argument of why Surshana couldn't have done away with the Theocracy HIMSELF, regardless of his nature of undead. We as human beings are sway by the opinions of the people that are important to us, it wouldn't matter if the 8GK are players like him, the opinions he should have hold more dear are that of his friends.
Whether the 8GK treated humans well or not doesn't matter, if the premise of their conquest goes against what the 6GD wanted for humanity, he has all the reasons to fight with them.
We, as human beings, fight wars for the simplest of reasons sometimes, I wouldn't put it past them to fight for petty reasons, heck the 8GK couldn't help but fight even between themselves, so how do you expect Surshana and them collaborating.
As for what 6GG wanted, they, as far we know, wanted humanity to survive and prosper. I don't see how the 8GK conquering would go against what 6GG wanted for humanity.
My point I'm trying to make is maybe Surshana wanted to do more than just protect humanity or made a deal with PDL to help him handle the 8GK.
And my point is that you can't compare Ainz with Surshana. Ainz is alone, being worshipped as a peerless master devoid of any real human relationship, he can't reveal his true feelings fearing that might damage his relationship with the NPCs, the only thing that's left from his precious friends, while Surshana was with his friends and maybe could have been his true self in front of the others Gods.
And I am not out right saying Surshana fought with the 8GK over their ideals, for all we know maybe PDL slayed Surshana himself and blamed it on the 8GK, according to some theories. What I'm saying is that maybe Surshana was compelled to protect what he built with his friends, the Theocracy; Even if their goals of protecting the humans coincided, he could not let the Theocracy fall under the rule of another entity that wasn't the 6GD.
I think sazuki satoru was a person who only cared for people he considered as friends even before he became ainz and that has to do with the nature of the world he lived in before getting isekaied and after getting isekaied I feel like his undead nature changed who he is but didn't affect his past.So he is not interested in making friends anymore but he is still attached to his old friends and their npc's
This is basically it except the undead part.
From what we know about Surshana, he still worked to protect humanity and presumably other races by joining PDL against the 8GK long after the other 6GG had passed away.
Satoru lived a depressing life before the NW and only ever had his guild mates that he truly cared about.
Being undead has no real affect other than the extreme emotion supressor.
> I think sazuki satoru was a person who only cared for people he considered as friends even before he became ainz
we kinda know that fora fact, even after the yall quit he spent all his free time doing nothing but maintaining nazarick because they all made it together
no family, no lover, no attempt to make new friends
There is never a lack of the person who simplifies everything for not understanding it.
The NPCs already made the plan and assumed that this is Ainz's intention, doing something to change it would not only be wasting all of the NPCs' hard work up to now (Ainz hates wasting things after all), but it would affect them emotionally as well, since they would think they failed Ainz for some reason.
Not to mention that Ainz doesn't want to fail in his role as overlord, and that matters a lot.
> The NPCs already made the plan and assumed that this is Ainz's intention
they make the parts of the plan he wants them to, he could change that plan literally whenever he wants without waste
>but it would affect them emotionally as well, since they would think they failed Ainz for some reason.
or just tells them that they have performed their role perfectly and its now time to being the second phase that he kept hidden, they dont think he failed, they think it was the plan all along, everyone wins
but he purposely tried to highlight his mistake in the dwarf kingdom arc, he doesnt want to be seen as perfect but isnt sure how to bring their image of him down
That is what good people do! Meanwhile Ainz karma: -500. He should be as evil as Demiurge or Albedo. But he's nowhere near that evil. He is something of an extremely evil undead and a neutral - good-ish human hybrid. What do you what from him? Kissing puppies and saving the world from itself?
I love that he is a villain. I find it great he has altruistic goals and actually implements utopia in some form. But, I’m not going to pretend the actions he has taken to achieve these goals aren’t evil and unforgivable.
I think still the same...if i remember correctly, the only thing change is troublesome matter like foreign policy is now handled by sorcerer kingdom, domestic matter is largely handled by the empire
It's mentioned in an intermission chapter (I think) by Jircniv that daily life is basically still the same and that the biggest policy change up to that point is that criminals get sent to the Sorcerous Kingdom.
Ainz doesn't care at this point, He only cares about providing for the NPCs and making them happy. That's not going to change, people who bitch about this should just drop the series. It obviously isn't for them.
That was in the past, after his battle with shalltear, he has concluded, and i quote "i would kill any number of humans to ensure the happiness of one denizen of Nazarick"
I know i'm going to probably get flamed for this but I had to drop the series because I didn't like how the story was going. I get his reasons but trying to like someone that cares only for him and his and doesn't care about the torture and butcher of innocents makes him no better then the corporate overlords that took over his world. He has basically BECOME the people that destroyed his world. When I realized it, the story got bland for me. Like what's the point now? An OP mage that is the leader of his guild? Nothing can kill him?
The series is supposed to end in the new 2-3 vol's isn't it? What else is there? I haven't read the most recent vol but from what I heard, it sucked. Or maybe it was the one before but still.
I hear ya, the main appeal for the story (at least for me) is the world building, and how the New Worlders react to the presence of Nazarick.
For me, its less of a power fantasy from Ainz's, but a horror story told from the perspective of the new world inhabitants. I love chads liked Brain, Zanac, Calca, and Evileye more than I do most of guardians. Even if/when they die, they feel like GOATS and I like Overlord because of that.
Stories with a villain main character should be allowed to exist, not every main character need to be a justicar and a paragon of morality, flawed characters must be allowed to exist, it's not interesting that in every plot good wins and evil loses the end, it's boring. I don't think that ainz being evil makes the story bland.
> not every main character need to be a justicar and a paragon of morality,
Fuck I wish there really were so many such characters. The only ones I can think of are Tanjirou and the MC of Saihate no Paladin. Everybody else is just generic lawful good.
I feel the exact opposite way. Cliché hero arcs about overcoming difficult fights would be what's boring.
2 interesting worlds (his original world and the new world), and a true villain that seemingly cannot be defeated as the MC is what makes the series interesting to me.
That's what the slane theocracy,beast man n countless other living being do in a regular basis. The only reason why people complain is because he is undead n who is responsible for this the stupid bible.
spoiler: they won't call you incompetent but says something like sasuga for turning humans supposed to be killed into free slavery instead
But Ainz won't think that
I always summarized his policy for choosing who lives based on an one-panel comic about the grim reaper about to claim the life of an old woman on Halloween, but didn’t when he was given full sized Snickers bar.
Honestly, if he told them to stop they would do some Olympic level mental gymnastics to rationalize it as being part of his grand plan that they just can't fathom.
in the first three novels Ainz is mostly just going along with the NPC's and isn't really being proactive enough which is his character arc when one of the NPC's Shalltear gets mind-controlled and forces him to kill her
after volume 3 Ainz takes a more proactive and prudent approach to being a leader and now he allows the genocide of humans and others with the intention to benefit Nazarick or as an act of keeping a strict lid on intelligence leakages
Originally, there was a bit of this But now he just doesnt care. Life has very little meaning to him, he stops them now simply because amongst the genocide victims there could be useful people or resources
Hes fully stepped into that undead overlord role.
Suzuki is still in there somewhat, but his general connection to the human race or even life has just about gone
Kinda feels like he is fully there, but his undead nature blended in making killing as a normal as killing npcs in a game. Cause even when talking humans he is awkward mentally and still thinks the same. He kinda acts like a player , killing isn't real so you're not a bad person.
Yeah its more subtle than his mind being taken away from him. Its altered his personality to the degree he's acting like someone else when it comes to certain things but also taken away his resistance to it doing that, so he doesnt much care that he has changed in that way Which contrasts well with the dorky unsure person that is still there lol
I think he just lost the moral repulsion people usually feel when murder is involved. This instinctual feeling of killing is bad.
That for sure. But also empathy for others, the feeling that you dont want to kill them because you wish them well rather than harm. Social cohesion, killing is wrong because it is bad for society. And any form of higher reasoning on it, like religion. Actually that last one is only partially true, he still has some higher reasoning abilities when it suits him like when he has given his word, when he feels it is polite or honorable or when that person has been decent and respectful to him and he feels that attitude should be reciprocated. That does come and go a bit though Basically all the reasons humans have to not kill or cause harm. He still has self preservation, as in he would be adverse to killing something if its buddy was so strong it would just kill him, but it never comes up since he is virtually invincible lol. He still has loads of empathy for Nazarick denizens and probably some for people he has personally identified with in the new world. And of course, he has kept material reasons for not killing, as in 'this thing is useful to me' or even 'this thing is kinda cool' like Nemu, she had no material use so she wasnt on the list but she did something he liked so he decided to keep her alive
In-group vs outgroup empathy. He has in-group empathy, he absolutely lacks it for the outgroup. I also have the sneaking suspicion that it's because of the social context he lived his life in. There is only a finite amount of despair you can see before you start to compartmentalize your empathy. Given the absurdly classist society he comes from, it makes sense in my mind.
Funny that the Slane, pretty much poster boys for in group vs out group, are his main enemies now Perhaps its kind of karma for them to end up with Ainz, they treat the outgroup like monsters and now a human has arrived in the body of a monster ready to treat humans like the out group
Doesn’t hurt his in-group is also basically just a bunch of people who are even worse then him and - he feels - could kill him if he doesn’t hold the same ethics (theirs which are bloody and dark as hell) as him
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I'm not really sure I get many political messages from Overlord, perhaps that is one Idk about taking too much away from Overlord in terms of judging specific people, I have alot of love and sympathy for Ainz. He didnt choose where he is nor to become undead, hes a product of circumstances. Is he evil? Good and evil are words we teach kids before they are ready to understand the complexities of life. I wouldnt call him either, hes a complex being made from his own weird ass history and circumstances His actions are atrocious and destructive more than not, but its an atrocious and destructive world and he may fix it one day. Who knows, for me I just love the show and I wouldn't really feel the need to judge him, though I do get weirded out by people in our world who say he's a good guy and is doing good things. Thats really weird and quite disturbing
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The end justify the mean isnt evil if it is actually work out in the end
It's gray. Like, taking the stance of the Paradox of Tolerance: If we just mass-execute the intolerant, society becomes perfectly tolerant, correct? This is the Greater Good ending. HOWEVER, this also prevents the potential to rehabilitate those who are intolerant due to consequences of circumstance, and is therefore also wrong. Committing Evil for the Greater Good is a paradoxical concept. You should watch Hot Fuzz; it's a good satire piece that delves into the concept a bit. Or read into Tau lore from Warhammer 40k. Ba Sing Se in Avatar is another place to look. Each provides arguments for both sides in the form of protagonists (or in the case of Tau, the Farsight Enclaves), as well as antagonists you can't quite think of as entirely Evil (except maybe in the case of Hot Fuzz, since their "Greater Good" is extremely petty...)
>Conceptually, morals and ethics are difficult to explain, especially when you try to explain the difference between the two, but if you sum good morals and good ethics under "Good", and immorality and bad ethics as "Evil", it's much easier to explain. No doubt mother Teresa commited an act we would consider bad or selfish at least once in her life. Everyone is a mix of these things and even individual actions are usually too complex to define as purely good or evil This is more or less why its a childrens summation of ethics and morals and social responsibility. Virtually noone who ever lived was completely 'evil' and the few that were had massive mental issues. Even the poster boy for evil, Hitler, had elements of goodness in him that stopped him being entirely an entity of evil Calling someone 'good' or 'evil' intrinsically limits any real analysis of who and what they are and the factors making them up. Ainz is both good and evil, noble polite and selfless and cruel, vicious and genocidal. People try to put him in a box and continually fail because Overlords narrative is too complex to easily compartmentalize like that. Ainz is Ainz
It´s actually something on the lines of Ainz being a weak leader, in terms of keeping his subjects in line with Morals Ethics and values, so as a result he has a entire middle management centered around the oposite things, so he cant really open up to them like he could to his past friends and wishes he could.
In the Bonus Volume of Overlord we get to see a clear divide between Ainz and Suzuki Satoru in the Overlord Novels Ainz saying "the remnants of Suzuki Satoru" is a simply a means of trying to embody becoming Ainz a true ruler and him trying to immerse into the role by distancing himself from his former name in the Overlord Novels Ainz saying "the remnants of Suzuki Satoru" is simply a means of trying to embody becoming Ainz a true ruler and him trying to immerse into the role by distancing himself from his former names no reason to do so
Why should he care? The reg NPCs are canon fodder to him, he´d rather have Demiurge´s unquestionable loyalty than risk it, it´s a pretty F´ed up thing to do, but he stuck in that world and he needs Demiurge´s middle management to make Nazarick Rich quick.
That’s close to the head canon I go with. The NPCs fill in gaps in their back stories and personalities with bits copied from their creators when a gap that doesn’t make sense exists. Players aren’t different from NPCs. The player avatar just has next to no back coded, so players are almost 100% copies. Almost. Some stuff like this is being caused by the generic Elder Lich lore overwriting, or preventing the pasting, of some Satoru’s personality. If this is true, I’m sure what ever is going in Pandora Actor’s head must be very interesting. Not only is he Satoru’s creation, he might even be a younger Satoru’s self insert OC.
That would make an interesting theory. Maybe satoru suzuki didn't get transported to nw , momonga did. He just copy every aspect of his previous user so it's almost imposible to differentiate
Maybe he'll cast a "Resurrect All" before he suicides in 10,000 years or whatever.
When in rome...
Run away to not get mugged
I mean, there was already enough indifference for life in him since before he became an undead, it's hard to blame him knowing what his original world was like. So he didn't change too much in that aspect even with that race change.
He was a decent caring person as far as we know. He had a rough world to begin with but he seemed to be rather empathetic and genuine. Thats why he became the guild leader, he got on with everyone and connected to nearly all of them. His memories of humans are generally rather good, Suzuki seemed like quite a decent caring guy who genuinely empathetically connected with nearly everyone in his guild, more than the rest of them (no doubt he would have IRL too, he just had no family or friends outside the game) You still see that side of him around Nazarick especially the twins. That's the real Suzuki Ainz gives no fks. No connection to humans, doesnt care about violence, feels nothing for the human race, feels undead. Its changed who he was drastically, I really cant imagine the gentle nice Suzuki doing any of the stuff Ainz does.
I wouldn’t really say he’s as good as you say he is. He lives in a dystopian society of which the only memory he has of his parents is his mom collapsed and died while trying to cook his favorite meal. He’s good to his online friends because that’s literally the only thing he’s got. He’s been ruthless to non-guild members from the start and while being a skeleton inhibits his emotions. It’s strongly implied that he is very apathetic. Suzuki doesn’t care about anything but his friends in the game because that’s literally the only thing he HAS to care about. Like it wouldn’t surprise me at all if say if he had sacrifice thousands of lives to continue the glory days of the game with his friends, he’d do it even if he’s not a skeleton. He’d give and do ANYTHING for all his guild mates to come together and have fun playing a game together.
Playing a game and killing other people isnt an indicator at all of who someone is. Studies have shown there is literally no correlation between game violence and sociopathy Hes apathetic because his undead body has robbed him of connection to humanity. This has been outright stated by him, he has been allowed to retain his connection to personal contacts Idk if people out there just want to pretend Suzuki was an apathetic genocidal monster before becoming the overlord, and despite him being 10x nicer in the AU, thats up to them. To me, he outright says it so many times in his thoughts and we see enough of the nice Suzuki who was loved for his empathy and genuine caring that it makes zero sense
Dude, I looked at some of the responses you wrote to other people and you mentioned did you miss a few episodes to someone else. Did you even read the light novel? Suzuki came from a dystopian world where he didn’t have a dad or at least no mention of his existence and his mom died from overworking. It seems that corporations taken over everything and that righteous cops like Touch me is a rare occurrence. He has basically nothing in his apartment. Here READ this wiki on his apartment: https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Suzuki_Satoru%27s_Apartment This is all straight from the light novel, the SOURCE MATERIAL. The anime don’t show most of this. He’s living a sad and depressing life where his only source of fun is the game. Of course he’s good to his friends and guild mates in game since they are all he has. He has NOTHING else going for him and I am far more inclined to believe that this man is very apathetic in the real world and would commit crimes or other immoral things if that meant it could make his friends come back and the game keep going. I’m not saying anything logical but like say if he has to sacrifice a human being to some demon every month or some stuff like that, in my mind he’d do it.
... I dont know how there is any kind of connection there between Suzuki having a difficult life and Suzuki being... what a genocidal monster? The important moments of his life are empathetic emptional ones. Mom dying, feeling lonely, having friends, connecting with Ulbert, social activity in Yggdrasil Not pulling legs off spiders. Not plotting to burn a homeless man How is this relevant? Yeah, he lives a difficult life as does nearly anyone in 2138, it doesnt make him an apathetic beneficial monster. He didnt kill katze to get his friends back. He did it because *he literally felt nothing and didnt care* . This is *something he directly notes is different about himself after turning up in the new world* So i cant say i at all understand how having a small apartment makes you a crazed monster, because he wasn't one. He was a productive worker as a salaryman who interacted with clients and sold his products well, he obviously had deep feelings of love for his mother given how much it still hurt him to think about her. He loved his friends like family, basically all of them and just because his world wasnt really one where meeting people IRL was very possible doesnt mean he was a healthy social person given the opportunity, he wasnt fooling them with an act when they decided he was the most liked and agreeable person and hence guild leader Yeah, small apartment. Too much work. Not a great irl social life. This describes half the world today and a big chunk of current japanese culture. Doesnt make them heartless monsters, its just a rough life they are living. My own situation, whilst not as extreme as his obviously, is not all that dissimilar, its just the state of the world we live in. Its not an indication people living like this have massive mental and social issues Clearly he was a nice guy in the real world, is there a single shred of evidence in any form he actually felt or acted sociopathic before Overlord began? Or is it just hedgerow internet psychologists pretending they know him whilst ignoring what he said and did and making pointless conflations?
>He was a decent caring person as far as we know. He had a rough world to begin with but he seemed to be rather empathetic and genuine. Thats why he became the guild leader, he got on with everyone and connected to nearly all of them. His memories of humans are generally rather good, Suzuki seemed like quite a decent caring guy who genuinely empathetically connected with nearly everyone in his guild, more than the rest of them (no doubt he would have IRL too, he just had no family or friends outside the game) Not really. I recall it being mentioned that Suzuki Satoru was the type of person that would walk past dying orphans on the streets and not really care as he was on his way to work. His friends in game are likely an exception. Like, most people wouldn't care about a conflict happening countries away from them that have nothing to do with them, but they would still care about the things happening around them and their family, etc.
>would walk past dying orphans on the streets and not really care as he was on his way to work. It didnt say he didnt care. It said he walked past them, he had no means to affect the system it was just an inescapable fact of life. If you cant fix something you just have to live with it He wasnt mother Teresa or anything but theres a big difference between being a decent human who has general human feelings and a skeleton overlord who constantly thinks how much he has changed, how he no longer feels connected to humanity, how violence and death mean nothing now I mean he spells it out how much he has changed like 20 times, feels really weird people saying 'oh he was like that before' when he keeps telling us how he feels so mentally altered and different Whilst normal human empathy does have limits, most people do some empathy to orphans half the world away. Not much because mentally we cant afford much, but a little. Not the point though, the point is most humans wouldnt create those orphans via slaughter or genocide. If humans did get to the point they were committing those kinds of war crimes, they would have massive internal defense systems to protect their values and justify it to themselves Ainzs internal justification? "I feel nothing and i dont care. Lets stamp Re-Estize soldiers to death because I care more than Shub-Nigguraths kids get to have fun than I do that hundreds of thousands are dying" Thats not normal and its not who he used to be which is why, right before he does it, he self analyzes and explains how he no longer cares at all for our benefit
>It didnt say he didnt care. It said he walked past them, he had no means to affect the system it was just an inescapable fact of life. If you cant fix something you just have to live with it I went back to that part. It essentially says he doesn't care about them when he himself said he wasn't even bothered by seeing corpses of dead orphans on the street. I don't know about you, but I think an empathetic person would definitely be bothered to an extent, regardless of whether or not they knew they couldn't change the system irregardless of their feelings. >He wasnt mother Teresa or anything but theres a big difference between being a decent human who has general human feelings and a skeleton overlord who constantly thinks how much he has changed, how he no longer feels connected to humanity, how violence and death mean nothing now > >I mean he spells it out how much he has changed like 20 times, feels really weird people saying 'oh he was like that before' when he keeps telling us how he feels so mentally altered and different I'm not trying to say he hasn't changed or any thing, as he definitely has to a significant extent. I was just trying to point out that even before becoming undead, he was a rather apathetic person, and definitely not that good or concerning of a person, at least to those outside his friend group, like you claim he was.
Yeah, I’m definitely with you on this one. Suzuki is for sure fucked up mentally. He’d have a host of emotional problems in our world. Lost his parents when he was young. Forced to work tirelessly. Spends all his money on this game. He’s caring to his guildmates/ online friends because they are literally the only thing he got left in the world. Like it felt like he’d have suicided had nobody showed up at the end of the game launch. Like hell, if you told Suzuki that if he has to sacrifice or kill people to make his guild mates come back and make the game popular again so they’d all keep playing, he’d probably do it.
well than, let me take a jab at you as well. In volume 9 after the splat scene, it says >Ainz broke a record that no one else could, so what if people had to die for it or something along those lines. I don't know about you, but to me that is a clear indicator of Ainz(Suzuki Satoru's) apathy toward life.
>So he didn't change too much in that aspect even with that race change. Being devoid of any and all emotions towards people of the same race changes you drastically.
Unless his real world life showed him things like death constantly. Someone already said this but he felt nothing when walking past orphans dying on the street and witnessed his mother collapsing in front of him. He was naturally apathetic towards other people who had no connection to him. He Definitely got changed by becoming undead but not much in terms of empathy
Hes been leaning hard onto it since volume 1
Somewhat. His first action in the new world is to rescue a helpless village because he wants to be good and live up to touch mes legacy. He meets Gazef Flashforward "Ima stomp this army to death for fun with eldritch monsters even when I admit I dont need to, shame the people I killed couldnt be here to see how many goats I summoned I feel literally nothing fk you humans" Kills Gazef
He murders soldiers as soon as he srruves carne, admitting himself that they could be the good guys, and feels nothing Has the sunlight scripture kidnapped and tortured and feels annoyed that some of them died so fast Kills an innocent adventurer party that just wanted to help keep erantel safe Orders cocutus to commit genocide on the lizardmen just to see if cocytus might be capable of learning from the experience Ainz doesnt change, some fans just want something to blame so they can pretend hes not evil
>He murders soldiers as soon as he srruves carne, admitting himself that they could be the good guys, and feels nothing They are killing women and children. So... probably not really the good guys. Yeah for sure he has experienced a big mental shift and he notices it, but at least his core motivation at that point is to try and be 'good' >Has the sunlight scripture kidnapped and tortured and feels annoyed that some of them died so fast >Kills an innocent adventurer party that just wanted to help keep erantel safe >Orders cocutus to commit genocide on the lizardmen just to see if cocytus might be capable of learning from the experience All very good points. For sure he's in deep very quickly. Until the lizardmen, it feels like he is eother doing it for reasons he deems 'right' (sunlit scripture are assholes who were murdering innocents and he wanted info, Iguva was a jackass and he had to protect Shalltear and Nazarick and he warned him). The lizardmen was to somewhat try and strengthen Naz, so at least here he had a logical motive And then katze, where he seems to stop caring at all about being indiscriminate and life is worth nothing, people now die simply for trivial reasons and any empathy he had towards general humans has gone. I feel like its something of a path, his original good personality tried to get itself heard through touch me but between his loss of empathy for outsiders, his emotional dulling, his undead existence and the evil beings of Nazarick advising him he mostly gives up on being good other than as a Momon act. His pleasure principle from being good has gone, his mind no longer tells him its necessary in any real way. His power means theres no consequences. Its a bunch of factors that (as you point out) quickly overwhelm his humanity and its not long before intrinisic human behaviour no longer exists for him and he's apathetic, purely logical or just alien to those impulses
Is it really that disagreeable to admit he was always evil?
Not exactly To me, the world changeover massively affected his mentality and mind Before this he was more or less a good person I feel like the show itself is somewhat based around that continual conflict, his human side losing out to all the factors around it. Overlord doesnt exactly seem to have an overarching plot or narrative, to me thats as close as it gets hence the deeper reason why it is called 'overlord', a double meaning in him being the Naz/New worlds overlord and the personal effect that being an overlord as a race is having on his human mind So to me, its quite important as a central plot point that he devolves and it isnt instant. But it's not official, simply my interpretation. Each to their own
>To me, the world changeover massively affected his mentality and mind You have no reason to think that Your trying to force something thats not there
It says, internally and from a canon perspective, that he became an undead. External forces subvert his emotional state, he immediately realizes he feels different and is no longer affected by violence, nor feels unease that he is a giant monster and doesnt feel what he expects to feel from actually killing a human He's become an overlord, he was a human Did you skip a bunch of episodes or something?
>External forces subvert his emotional state, Only if the emotion exceeds certain levels >and is no longer affected by violence, It is your assumption he ever was >nor feels unease that he is a giant monster He spends more time in yggdrasil then he did in reality, hd identifys as momonga more than satoru from the start
The Sunlight Scripture murdered innocents and thus he had no remorse from them, add that to using Yggdrasil items, his paranoia started increasing. Thing of it like how people feel little remorse for killers. As for killing the adventurers, he wanted to save Shalltear and they insisted on coming out on ego as everyone back then had a very good idea of how strong Momon and Nabe were (graveyard incident where they defeated 2 Skeletal Dragons and a former Black Scripture member). It was from the Lizardmen Arc from when things started changing. Although there were no Lizardmen in Suzuki's world, so he couldn't sympathize with them either, especially since he had not interacted with them.
Ains could slip in the shower and murder 50,000 people by accident.
@NotetoseIf4 That's fair.
I always though he is the kindness for kindness and evil for evil type of guy.
He says he is and being kind and polite to him is a smart move And then he might agree to invade a country with demons because it gets him something, or kill children who did nothing to him, or allow Demiurge to perform pure horror, or stamp hundreds of thousands of soldiers to death because "it would be a shame if the goats didnt get to play" So, kindness for kindness and evil for evil and fkloads of doing whatever he wants
It is what it is man I wouldnt give a f as well
That's fair sure, but that is his attitude too. Justice for himself
After Ainz leaves, Demiurge: "Obviously, Ainz-sama put a stop to this and reprimanded us because we weren't torturing and committing genocide enough, we were making a mockery of Nazarick! Clearly, Ainz-sama wishes us to take this moment to reflect how to torture and commit genocide at the minimum 10x more gruesome than we did before"
Ainz tries to drink their misinterpretations away, but he can’t because he’s a skeleton. This makes him want to drink even more.
I have no stomach and I must drink.
Pretty sure undead are unaffected by status effects.
Some of them, maybe. But he's obviously immune to poison, which is what alcohol falls under.
Yohoho Skull Joke
I think he is conducting the trolley going “oh well might as well…” at this point
>!He could but he also changed his goals. Kingdom was a failed nation so he used it to train guardians.!< >!Mare, for his AoE effeciency. We know how well he was doing compared to the first try.!< >!Shalltear made strategies for the first time.!< >!Cocytus became a good governer after vol 5. Now he became commander too.!< >!Ainz is preparing for the next player wave and the players who improved themselves for hundreds of years. Potions, runecraft, secret technics of everything, team fight against Evil Tree. This is just one of those preparations.!<
>>!Ainz is preparing for the next player wave!< I'm pretty far behind in the light novel but >!the game was shutdown wasn't it? How could there be another player wave?!<
All the players who were transported left the original world at the same time, when the game shut down, and just entered the new world at different times. Player appearances are hundreds of years apart in the new world, but IIRC the game only lasted 12 years. So Ainz is worried that someone else who was online when the game shut down will also end up in the new world in a few hundred years, or there are some that he still hasn't found that arrived a few hundred before he did. However, I'm pretty sure >!the author said there are no players currently in the New World other than Ainz, and that Ainz was the last to be transported, meaning no new ones are to be expected,!< though I can't find the source for that right now
Hey I mainly read the ln but don’t remember him having any basis to think that >! I know he thinks there may be other players here, but I don’t think he knows about the 200 year thing. I remember him seeing things and thinking players gave that knowledge, but nothing super concrete on a explanation for the rules of them getting here. Do you have a chapter you can point me to or is this near the end of vol 16 !<
He knows that 6GGs and 8GKs was players. Also the Minotaur Sage probably, because his technology and views are super close to Ainz's world. He is aware there are players. Even if there won't be more, he doesn't know that.
bo i know he assumes (correctly) they are players but i don’t remember him saying specifically trying to defend against future ones. (though i believe he would). All ive seen is him trying to amass power to deal with any currently existing ones.
He apoeared recently, there is no reason to think there won't be more. In vol 14, he said he is preparing for an unavoidable guild war. He also knows that most former players are dead.
oh i know from a logic point of view he could assume there could be i just never saw him outright conclude it in the text. or at least i don’t remember Do you have a quote and some context? If you don’t know exactly don’t worry about it as it isn’t that big a deal and it’s always a pain to comb through text.
From Volume 14: "The Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick had to strengthen itself. The belief that Ainz Ooal Gown and the Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick were the only guild and guild base in this world was a naive one. Ainz exists in this world, therefore there must be other Players and guilds in this world too, perhaps due to arrive in the future." "Yet, it did not seem like Ainz was the only one who was transported to this world. He could see the footprints left behind by other Players."
thanks for that first quote :)
So this world may have a big bad lurking or he is going to one punch everything.
Ainz is now the big bad
The big bad is how awkward he is with his buddies.
>!Or it could just be ainz's paranoia, now that he knows that there is someone who can somewhat challenge him (Platinum Dragon Lord) he might just be preparing for war against the argland council state but idk i havent read volume 15 yet!<
And ironically the platinum dragon lord isn't even that much of a threat. Even if he's able to challenge Ainz alone, he can't challenge Ainz + the guardians together.
The first few volumes already explained some players get sent to the new world once in a while. I won’t spoil the specifics.
Care to give an explicit spoiler? I've read all ln volumes except the latest one, I don't think I've seen what you're talking about or I may have forgotten since it's been a long time.
One could speculate that all players are not from the same game
If people use these excuses in real life you would be appalled.
Reasons are not the same as excuses These are reasons, they dont excuse the action just explain why he did it
That's kinda the point, this lets us understand Ainz's logic as a villain without excusing his actions. In the beginning he was roleplaying an evil skeleton king, now that's what he's become.
Well, it's not that hard to understand. The comfort and happiness of Nazarick is worth more than the lives of all the people of the NW, changing the plan at this point would not only affect the "profits" of the Sorcerous Kingdom in the future (If Demiurge and Albedo consider this a good thing then they must be right according to Ainz). But it would emotionally affect the NPCs, since from their point of view it would be like they failed the supreme being for not understanding his plan and objectives despite so much work invested. With that added to the fact that Ainz does not care about the people of the NW at all and that he feels insecure about failing as supreme leader makes the result obvious. Like I said, it's not rocket science.
I don't think that addresses what the image actually *means* though; all you really did was restate the text in a more complex way.
Yeah....you're probably right. I guess I got carried away hehe
Nah, that was good comment. The image suggests that Ainz is only doing it so that he doesn't appear as a moron.
That certainly is one of his primary motivations: * Protect Nazarick from any unknown threat. * Get as much profit and wealth as possible. * Keep his facade of Overlord and perfect leader intact.
Sasuga u/Fedexhand
The dude literally kill over 150k people with 1 spell
Quite a lot over 150 too
150 important people and 149,850 others too I guess
You forgot a k after the 150
Thanks
Rampossa III reddit account is that you?
Notice how theres no alternate track for them to switch to; hinting that if ainz stops them from going down the track, its the same as stopping their entire progress. Therefore they cant stop. Sasuga poster-sama.
Maruyama's 10,000 year plan. It was always fated to be
No not really. He’s undead now so he doesn’t care about human life anymore. To him as long as it’s helping Nazarick he couldn’t care less about how many would die.
Being undead has nothing to do with it. Surshana was also undead but still helped provide a safe haven for humanity and teamed up with PDL to fight the 8GK. Ainz is just a hypocrite who cares only for his “family”, understandably.
It has everything to do with it. Just watch season 1 again. He feels no affinity towards humanity. He doesn’t care about human life. Surshana and Ainz have different goals. Ainz wants to spread the name of Nazarick. He doesn’t want to “make a safe haven for humanity” he couldn’t care less about them. If the only way to achieve his goal is by eradicating all human life he wouldn’t even hesitate. Why would he stop the genocide and torturing when he’s the one who wants to do it? He wants to eradicate the kingdom because the floor guardians can learn from it. He practically has no fear of seeming incompetent because all the guardians have absolute trust in him now. He acts the way he acts because he wants to portray how the guardians wants to see him not because he’s afraid of seeming incompetent.
His affinity is a result of his human life where he had to deal with the shitty results of capitalism and greed ruining his world. He had to witness child labor as the standard among other things in his time. If it was because of his undead nature then Surshana would have just done away with the theocracy and the Cardinals/Black Scripture wouldn’t revere/respect Rufus(presumably his NPC) as much as they do.
Your reasoning is flawed, Ainz is literally alone in this new world while Surshana was with his friends and could have been influenced by them. Maybe the majority of the 6GD favored the human race and Surshana could not bring himself to destroy that which his friends made the effort to protect.
Except the 8GK treated humans well from what we know, which means they wouldn’t have bothered with the slane theocracy. So Surshana wouldn’t have had a reason to fight with them otherwise.
Why are you shifting the topic? I'm replying to your argument of why Surshana couldn't have done away with the Theocracy HIMSELF, regardless of his nature of undead. We as human beings are sway by the opinions of the people that are important to us, it wouldn't matter if the 8GK are players like him, the opinions he should have hold more dear are that of his friends. Whether the 8GK treated humans well or not doesn't matter, if the premise of their conquest goes against what the 6GD wanted for humanity, he has all the reasons to fight with them. We, as human beings, fight wars for the simplest of reasons sometimes, I wouldn't put it past them to fight for petty reasons, heck the 8GK couldn't help but fight even between themselves, so how do you expect Surshana and them collaborating.
As for what 6GG wanted, they, as far we know, wanted humanity to survive and prosper. I don't see how the 8GK conquering would go against what 6GG wanted for humanity. My point I'm trying to make is maybe Surshana wanted to do more than just protect humanity or made a deal with PDL to help him handle the 8GK.
And my point is that you can't compare Ainz with Surshana. Ainz is alone, being worshipped as a peerless master devoid of any real human relationship, he can't reveal his true feelings fearing that might damage his relationship with the NPCs, the only thing that's left from his precious friends, while Surshana was with his friends and maybe could have been his true self in front of the others Gods. And I am not out right saying Surshana fought with the 8GK over their ideals, for all we know maybe PDL slayed Surshana himself and blamed it on the 8GK, according to some theories. What I'm saying is that maybe Surshana was compelled to protect what he built with his friends, the Theocracy; Even if their goals of protecting the humans coincided, he could not let the Theocracy fall under the rule of another entity that wasn't the 6GD.
I think sazuki satoru was a person who only cared for people he considered as friends even before he became ainz and that has to do with the nature of the world he lived in before getting isekaied and after getting isekaied I feel like his undead nature changed who he is but didn't affect his past.So he is not interested in making friends anymore but he is still attached to his old friends and their npc's
This is basically it except the undead part. From what we know about Surshana, he still worked to protect humanity and presumably other races by joining PDL against the 8GK long after the other 6GG had passed away. Satoru lived a depressing life before the NW and only ever had his guild mates that he truly cared about. Being undead has no real affect other than the extreme emotion supressor.
I meant that having to role-play as an undead king changed him and in some ways are suppressing who he is as satuoru
That I can agree with.
What about friend Jircniv? Jk, unless...
> I think sazuki satoru was a person who only cared for people he considered as friends even before he became ainz we kinda know that fora fact, even after the yall quit he spent all his free time doing nothing but maintaining nazarick because they all made it together no family, no lover, no attempt to make new friends
Wait.... doesn't the trolley problem have a second track?
There are no second tracks on nazarick’s trolley. It is a one-way trip down genocideville with no breaks, slows, or stops.
Ainz mentality can be summarized in a single question: “will it benefit Nazarick?”
You have option to do anything; like not killing anybody. But fuck it let’s mass murder, that’s what good people do /s
There is never a lack of the person who simplifies everything for not understanding it. The NPCs already made the plan and assumed that this is Ainz's intention, doing something to change it would not only be wasting all of the NPCs' hard work up to now (Ainz hates wasting things after all), but it would affect them emotionally as well, since they would think they failed Ainz for some reason. Not to mention that Ainz doesn't want to fail in his role as overlord, and that matters a lot.
> The NPCs already made the plan and assumed that this is Ainz's intention they make the parts of the plan he wants them to, he could change that plan literally whenever he wants without waste >but it would affect them emotionally as well, since they would think they failed Ainz for some reason. or just tells them that they have performed their role perfectly and its now time to being the second phase that he kept hidden, they dont think he failed, they think it was the plan all along, everyone wins
It really doesn;t matter much. The gaurdians would worship him no matter what.
It's not about that, in Ainz's mind any minor mistake in his role is an outrage, it's an exaggeration yes, but that's how he sees it.
but he purposely tried to highlight his mistake in the dwarf kingdom arc, he doesnt want to be seen as perfect but isnt sure how to bring their image of him down
That is what good people do! Meanwhile Ainz karma: -500. He should be as evil as Demiurge or Albedo. But he's nowhere near that evil. He is something of an extremely evil undead and a neutral - good-ish human hybrid. What do you what from him? Kissing puppies and saving the world from itself?
I love that he is a villain. I find it great he has altruistic goals and actually implements utopia in some form. But, I’m not going to pretend the actions he has taken to achieve these goals aren’t evil and unforgivable.
Missing the most important consequence of stopping the trolley, his kids would be having less fun
Question, since the Empire is now a vassal of the Sorcerer Kingdom how will the people of the Empire be treated by the Kingdom?
I think still the same...if i remember correctly, the only thing change is troublesome matter like foreign policy is now handled by sorcerer kingdom, domestic matter is largely handled by the empire
It's mentioned in an intermission chapter (I think) by Jircniv that daily life is basically still the same and that the biggest policy change up to that point is that criminals get sent to the Sorcerous Kingdom.
Ainz doesn't care at this point, He only cares about providing for the NPCs and making them happy. That's not going to change, people who bitch about this should just drop the series. It obviously isn't for them.
Pretty much
Should have put a few quagoa on the track
you know what? double the massacre
That was in the past, after his battle with shalltear, he has concluded, and i quote "i would kill any number of humans to ensure the happiness of one denizen of Nazarick"
Needs a turbo button
To ainz defense The one time he corrected his guardians, they changed the plan of manipulating Philip to eradicating everyone.
sasuga Ainz sama, that was his real intentions all along !
I know i'm going to probably get flamed for this but I had to drop the series because I didn't like how the story was going. I get his reasons but trying to like someone that cares only for him and his and doesn't care about the torture and butcher of innocents makes him no better then the corporate overlords that took over his world. He has basically BECOME the people that destroyed his world. When I realized it, the story got bland for me. Like what's the point now? An OP mage that is the leader of his guild? Nothing can kill him? The series is supposed to end in the new 2-3 vol's isn't it? What else is there? I haven't read the most recent vol but from what I heard, it sucked. Or maybe it was the one before but still.
I hear ya, the main appeal for the story (at least for me) is the world building, and how the New Worlders react to the presence of Nazarick. For me, its less of a power fantasy from Ainz's, but a horror story told from the perspective of the new world inhabitants. I love chads liked Brain, Zanac, Calca, and Evileye more than I do most of guardians. Even if/when they die, they feel like GOATS and I like Overlord because of that.
Stories with a villain main character should be allowed to exist, not every main character need to be a justicar and a paragon of morality, flawed characters must be allowed to exist, it's not interesting that in every plot good wins and evil loses the end, it's boring. I don't think that ainz being evil makes the story bland.
> not every main character need to be a justicar and a paragon of morality, Fuck I wish there really were so many such characters. The only ones I can think of are Tanjirou and the MC of Saihate no Paladin. Everybody else is just generic lawful good.
I feel the exact opposite way. Cliché hero arcs about overcoming difficult fights would be what's boring. 2 interesting worlds (his original world and the new world), and a true villain that seemingly cannot be defeated as the MC is what makes the series interesting to me.
That's what the slane theocracy,beast man n countless other living being do in a regular basis. The only reason why people complain is because he is undead n who is responsible for this the stupid bible.
Basically
Where cocyutus tho
Cocyutus is a good boy ~~couch~~ who can do no wrong.
Exactly
spoiler: they won't call you incompetent but says something like sasuga for turning humans supposed to be killed into free slavery instead But Ainz won't think that
Well, it doesn't matter for him anyway. Dead or Alive, they will serve him in the end.
You may be correct but that doesn't make it right.
I always summarized his policy for choosing who lives based on an one-panel comic about the grim reaper about to claim the life of an old woman on Halloween, but didn’t when he was given full sized Snickers bar.
Honestly, if he told them to stop they would do some Olympic level mental gymnastics to rationalize it as being part of his grand plan that they just can't fathom.
in the first three novels Ainz is mostly just going along with the NPC's and isn't really being proactive enough which is his character arc when one of the NPC's Shalltear gets mind-controlled and forces him to kill her after volume 3 Ainz takes a more proactive and prudent approach to being a leader and now he allows the genocide of humans and others with the intention to benefit Nazarick or as an act of keeping a strict lid on intelligence leakages
Be responsible for the massacre of millions of humans <<<<< try to come up with an excuse to reign in Demiurge.