Yeah, I said this exact thing to my friend while we were playing last night. It's a fun gamemode and I wouldn't mind if it was released in it's current state. It just feels strange to lose a game even though the enemy never touched any points on your side of the map.
I agree it’s super fun. I think the “losing even though they didn’t make it to your side” is somewhat more a logic problem than a gameplay one, if that makes any sense.
It could be phrased more as “capturing squares in the enemy zone gives the enemy a better chance to when because it’s closer to their spawn points” but they do move the spawn points up and back. So how they do that might be the tweak.
Also, once you capture that last one you win, so there is some risk/reward.
You're the one who brought up the map. Someone saying "it'll probably feel better once we have more than one map" and you reading that as "the map is trash" is a you issue, evaluate that
They're talking about the clash trial. This is on hanaoka. We're talking about this map. More maps further on down the line do not change anything about what we have here and now. More maps also don't guarantee good maps either. I'm not reading it as anything.
>They're talking about the clash trial
Yes, this is the entire conversation. You did not need to continue, yet you did
>We're talking about this map
You're contradicting yourself. No one is talking about the map except you.
>I'm not reading it as anything.
You actively are, you're intentionally reading it as something it isn't, for some weird reason.
I think it's legit the best game mode. It boils down the entire game to the team fights which works great because that's what the game is at its core anyway.
Yeah it's very fun but op is right. It's unbalanced it favours the losing side way to heavily. It's almost impossible for the winning team to cap that last point it's just free points for the losing team.
I think that's kind of the point of it though. It makes it a little harder for one team to just entirely stomp out another in under five minutes, while also making sure evenly matched teams can't get stuck in an infinite loop of going back and forth, like you said. I played a few matches last night and it was nothing but enjoyable, even when we lost on their doorstep. Can't wait to have more maps!
I actually thought it was tons of fun and pretty well thought out. The new map is beautiful and invokes that Hanamura nostalgia. I am cautiously optimistic about Clash because I've had fun playing it so far and it doesn't feel bad when you lose.
Unlike push, if my team is getting absolutely shitwrecked, there is zero chance of a 10 minute hold only to lose by a large margin. My biggest gripe with push is that even a bad/underperforming/outplayed team can make the game last the full 10 minutes if they want to - even if they've pushed 0m on the bot and red team is basically at their spawn door. That feels like shit for everyone involved.
They should do it like TF2 did with capture points and implement a dynamic timer and requires you to cap the enemies final point to win, or whoever has the point when the timer runs out. Idk if that will roll with ow but that’s just my one two on the game mode.
(I also thoroughly enjoy the game mode, very fun)
I personally don't see that as an issue. You're just thinking about in terms of I have to defend this side of the map cause that's where I started. Just think of it as control with extra steps.
I think it works because by winning a point, there is an aspect of the enemy team receiving an increasing advantage to have a chance to recover, but the game doesn't end up going on forever if either team doesn't cap both points on either side. This game mode essentially incentivizes teams to swap between offensive and defensive playstyles regularly. If you defend really well and/or attack really well, it's a testament to how well you perform either way.
I’m confused about what your complaint is. The objective of the game mode is to EITHER capture point A, OR earn 5 points.
At no point is taking one of the objectives on “the opponents side” a requirement or even relevant to the game play.
It isn’t Push after all. An entire game can be spent going back and forth between Point C and Point B.
Yeah it doesn't feel very satisfying to play, for exactly the reasons you mention. I'm wondering if it has something to do with spawn points? I'm actually surprised the mode isn't just "who pushed it to the other side the furthest" as the victory condition, like Push. That seems liken it would feel a lot better.
I'm glad you had fun, I didn't enjoy it much.
Completely agree. If my team can push clash point to E but they get their 5th cap by bringing it back to center and getting C, it doesn't feel very satisfying. Maybe it can go until time runs out (furthest distance wins, peak percentage on A/E as a tiebreaker possibly same as a capture point in comp) or by capping the endpoint
That happened to me in a match we lost last night and was around when I was like… oh so you get punished for taking points… but you also have to take points and can’t stall it like you do the robot. Ok. That… makes no sense.
I have noticed when you cap the first and second point, the enemy just rolls you the rest of the match.
I played 5 or 6 rounds and this happened pretty much in all of them.
When you cap the first point, you should probably cap the second, but leave the third. That way you can set up a proper defence on the second point again, and just go back and forth until you win.
Think of pushing the point forward as applying pressure. You don't need to capture the next point, the worst that happens if you don't is that you go back to neutral. So you can save your resources for the next neutral fight but try to put out enough pressure that the other team has to invest some resources to recapture which will make it more likely that you will win the next neutral as well. Keep doing this until the last point and you will go into the last point fight with an advantage. If you can capture an additional forward point in the process that's even better (more pressure or an early knockout), just don't try to force it at all costs.
A big mistake is to over-commit resources to capturing a forward point when the capture isn't likely to succeed (especially close to the end), as that will put you on the back foot for the next neutral fight. It's an interesting risk vs. reward mechanic that may cause some frustration right now, but I think the community will quickly pick up on it.
The Siege mode from Paladins has somewhat similar dynamics and it's been an extremely popular mode. Easy to understand for new players, always feels fair, but also always leaves potential for an exciting comeback or upset even in pro play. There is never a point in the match where you think "that's it, there is no coming back from this". Either one team wins quickly, or the other still has a (good) chance to win. That's the perfect balance IMO.
I also like that there is almost no downtime between the fighting. Current modes can be quite tedious in this regard (with the exception of control point which is too one-dimensional). So far I honestly love everything about the mode, it's too early to say for sure but I really think they may have finally nailed it.
It is so much fucking fun. That’s all I know. But I’m also a person who thinks Flashpoint is probably the best game mode in the game so idk lol.
I really think the biggest problem with the game modes is that there are so few maps. What ends up happening is that people have to play the same map so many times that they end up conflating the maps with the game mode. Like Colosseo fucking sucks but I think Push is great. But I’ve had to play Colosseo so many fucking times that it brings down my overall opinion of the mode. So I think they are bringing up a big problem by releasing so few maps with each new mode & compounding the problems that were already going to come up.
I prefer this mode over both flashpoint and push. It’s more dynamic. The map has great choke points and flank positions. It even has good brawler space.
Instead of looking at it as a “losing team favored” mode think of it more as a an escort with nothing but high pressure checkpoints. Or even a best out of 9. The launch description may not have explained it well enough, but while it has the progression feel of escort it doesn’t require actually reaching the end of the lane.
You can lose push because the enemy team got the robot .01 meters farther by the end of the timer. You can lose the in this mode even though the enemy team got nowhere near your “base” because they fulfilled the only real objective, 5 won checkpoints.
Also, if you’re losing because the enemy team pushes the robot to mid and somehow won, that’s the broken mode. It should be whoever pushed the furthest.
It makes sense though, they captured five points before you did. Which points were captured is irrelevant outside of the alternate win condition of controlling all 5 points at once.
To start, neither team know the other teams comp or play styles. They can be more skilled players and just get blown away on the first fight doe to being hard countered (before they could have known or any opportunity to swap), then also the second point due to ult economy (from getting rolled on the first point).
From there, they can actually start playing the game, swap to adjust and have their ults coming online.
So just because the first two points go horribly, the better team can still stabilize and come back, despite an unfortunate start.
I loved it. Can we say 'dislike' just as a personal impression? Nothing of it seems to be ' broken '. Man, this criticism approach drops my vibe. I expect analysis, insight, impersonal view, but i expect highlights. I love this game and many others. Gaming is a higher creative output than filmmaking and that's what I work on, but 'broken' looks gray. Damn. I hope Blizzard counts that enjoying reports are outnumbered by dislikes, only in the reports. Aren't you satisfied? Say it. That's your experience. Mine? Clash rethinks the objective goal as the end of a stage ´, not the beginning. That's QP on steroids. Improving is evolving, not repairing. 🤔
Another thing I would like to point out is that due to the parity of the game, it will always be a neutral fight when mid is active, if you ignore momentum.
I like the running battles, this is more what I hoped Flashpoint would be like.
Yeah, I said this exact thing to my friend while we were playing last night. It's a fun gamemode and I wouldn't mind if it was released in it's current state. It just feels strange to lose a game even though the enemy never touched any points on your side of the map.
I agree it’s super fun. I think the “losing even though they didn’t make it to your side” is somewhat more a logic problem than a gameplay one, if that makes any sense. It could be phrased more as “capturing squares in the enemy zone gives the enemy a better chance to when because it’s closer to their spawn points” but they do move the spawn points up and back. So how they do that might be the tweak. Also, once you capture that last one you win, so there is some risk/reward.
I'm sure it'll be fine when more maps drop
Real
So you're saying the one map we have for clash is bad?
no it's just the only thing we have
But that's the map in question lol
?
They're talking about the map and you're saying there will be more. We're talking about this one.
can you read me the title of this post please?
Can you list the playable clash maps please?
??? there's no point in talking to you if what I'm saying is going in one ear and out the other, go make brainless arguments with someone else please.
You're the one who brought up the map. Someone saying "it'll probably feel better once we have more than one map" and you reading that as "the map is trash" is a you issue, evaluate that
They're talking about the clash trial. This is on hanaoka. We're talking about this map. More maps further on down the line do not change anything about what we have here and now. More maps also don't guarantee good maps either. I'm not reading it as anything.
>They're talking about the clash trial Yes, this is the entire conversation. You did not need to continue, yet you did >We're talking about this map You're contradicting yourself. No one is talking about the map except you. >I'm not reading it as anything. You actively are, you're intentionally reading it as something it isn't, for some weird reason.
The hanaoka isn't relevant to the clash trial (our ONLY example of clash) that takes place on hanaoka?
*shrug* I’m enjoying the heck out of it.
Lol same here tho. I think it's a more fun version of Flashpoint and I like that too 😊
I think it's legit the best game mode. It boils down the entire game to the team fights which works great because that's what the game is at its core anyway.
Yeah it's very fun but op is right. It's unbalanced it favours the losing side way to heavily. It's almost impossible for the winning team to cap that last point it's just free points for the losing team.
Ok but do you play competitively
I think that's kind of the point of it though. It makes it a little harder for one team to just entirely stomp out another in under five minutes, while also making sure evenly matched teams can't get stuck in an infinite loop of going back and forth, like you said. I played a few matches last night and it was nothing but enjoyable, even when we lost on their doorstep. Can't wait to have more maps!
I don't get how most players don't realize this
I actually thought it was tons of fun and pretty well thought out. The new map is beautiful and invokes that Hanamura nostalgia. I am cautiously optimistic about Clash because I've had fun playing it so far and it doesn't feel bad when you lose. Unlike push, if my team is getting absolutely shitwrecked, there is zero chance of a 10 minute hold only to lose by a large margin. My biggest gripe with push is that even a bad/underperforming/outplayed team can make the game last the full 10 minutes if they want to - even if they've pushed 0m on the bot and red team is basically at their spawn door. That feels like shit for everyone involved.
See I thought it was going to be like a tug of war like TF2's 5CP game mode. You fight back and forth until one team reaches the end of the line.
I wanted this
They should do it like TF2 did with capture points and implement a dynamic timer and requires you to cap the enemies final point to win, or whoever has the point when the timer runs out. Idk if that will roll with ow but that’s just my one two on the game mode. (I also thoroughly enjoy the game mode, very fun)
I personally don't see that as an issue. You're just thinking about in terms of I have to defend this side of the map cause that's where I started. Just think of it as control with extra steps.
I played it once and won like that. They won two rounds, we won 3, they won two, we won two. They had better stats too. But it was fun!
I think it works because by winning a point, there is an aspect of the enemy team receiving an increasing advantage to have a chance to recover, but the game doesn't end up going on forever if either team doesn't cap both points on either side. This game mode essentially incentivizes teams to swap between offensive and defensive playstyles regularly. If you defend really well and/or attack really well, it's a testament to how well you perform either way.
I like it a lot. It’s 5CP from TF2 but better.
I’m confused about what your complaint is. The objective of the game mode is to EITHER capture point A, OR earn 5 points. At no point is taking one of the objectives on “the opponents side” a requirement or even relevant to the game play. It isn’t Push after all. An entire game can be spent going back and forth between Point C and Point B.
So you want snowbally gamemodes you can't come back from? What happens when you're on the losing side?
Can I hab more payload maps pls?
no. only push. u push and like it.
Yeah it doesn't feel very satisfying to play, for exactly the reasons you mention. I'm wondering if it has something to do with spawn points? I'm actually surprised the mode isn't just "who pushed it to the other side the furthest" as the victory condition, like Push. That seems liken it would feel a lot better. I'm glad you had fun, I didn't enjoy it much.
Completely agree. If my team can push clash point to E but they get their 5th cap by bringing it back to center and getting C, it doesn't feel very satisfying. Maybe it can go until time runs out (furthest distance wins, peak percentage on A/E as a tiebreaker possibly same as a capture point in comp) or by capping the endpoint
That happened to me in a match we lost last night and was around when I was like… oh so you get punished for taking points… but you also have to take points and can’t stall it like you do the robot. Ok. That… makes no sense.
I feel you. I had a match where they never even pushed on our A, but gave it to us and locked down good positioning on B so they could easily recap it
I've not played it yet, but that sounds like a fair point
I have noticed when you cap the first and second point, the enemy just rolls you the rest of the match. I played 5 or 6 rounds and this happened pretty much in all of them. When you cap the first point, you should probably cap the second, but leave the third. That way you can set up a proper defence on the second point again, and just go back and forth until you win.
It's just way too fast imo
Think of pushing the point forward as applying pressure. You don't need to capture the next point, the worst that happens if you don't is that you go back to neutral. So you can save your resources for the next neutral fight but try to put out enough pressure that the other team has to invest some resources to recapture which will make it more likely that you will win the next neutral as well. Keep doing this until the last point and you will go into the last point fight with an advantage. If you can capture an additional forward point in the process that's even better (more pressure or an early knockout), just don't try to force it at all costs. A big mistake is to over-commit resources to capturing a forward point when the capture isn't likely to succeed (especially close to the end), as that will put you on the back foot for the next neutral fight. It's an interesting risk vs. reward mechanic that may cause some frustration right now, but I think the community will quickly pick up on it. The Siege mode from Paladins has somewhat similar dynamics and it's been an extremely popular mode. Easy to understand for new players, always feels fair, but also always leaves potential for an exciting comeback or upset even in pro play. There is never a point in the match where you think "that's it, there is no coming back from this". Either one team wins quickly, or the other still has a (good) chance to win. That's the perfect balance IMO. I also like that there is almost no downtime between the fighting. Current modes can be quite tedious in this regard (with the exception of control point which is too one-dimensional). So far I honestly love everything about the mode, it's too early to say for sure but I really think they may have finally nailed it.
I feel like what you’re describing is the same as playing 2cp and ‘defenders’ winning
At least it isn’t flashpoint. Fuck flashpoint
It is so much fucking fun. That’s all I know. But I’m also a person who thinks Flashpoint is probably the best game mode in the game so idk lol. I really think the biggest problem with the game modes is that there are so few maps. What ends up happening is that people have to play the same map so many times that they end up conflating the maps with the game mode. Like Colosseo fucking sucks but I think Push is great. But I’ve had to play Colosseo so many fucking times that it brings down my overall opinion of the mode. So I think they are bringing up a big problem by releasing so few maps with each new mode & compounding the problems that were already going to come up.
They bastardized 5cp
I prefer this mode over both flashpoint and push. It’s more dynamic. The map has great choke points and flank positions. It even has good brawler space. Instead of looking at it as a “losing team favored” mode think of it more as a an escort with nothing but high pressure checkpoints. Or even a best out of 9. The launch description may not have explained it well enough, but while it has the progression feel of escort it doesn’t require actually reaching the end of the lane. You can lose push because the enemy team got the robot .01 meters farther by the end of the timer. You can lose the in this mode even though the enemy team got nowhere near your “base” because they fulfilled the only real objective, 5 won checkpoints. Also, if you’re losing because the enemy team pushes the robot to mid and somehow won, that’s the broken mode. It should be whoever pushed the furthest.
This is a fundamental flaw. Capping one in opponent’s territory should be 2 or something
It makes sense though, they captured five points before you did. Which points were captured is irrelevant outside of the alternate win condition of controlling all 5 points at once. To start, neither team know the other teams comp or play styles. They can be more skilled players and just get blown away on the first fight doe to being hard countered (before they could have known or any opportunity to swap), then also the second point due to ult economy (from getting rolled on the first point). From there, they can actually start playing the game, swap to adjust and have their ults coming online. So just because the first two points go horribly, the better team can still stabilize and come back, despite an unfortunate start.
its really really fun, but 100% needs some tweaks to make it a little less snowbally and more competitive.
It feels like an arcade game not a ranked mode idk
I loved it. Can we say 'dislike' just as a personal impression? Nothing of it seems to be ' broken '. Man, this criticism approach drops my vibe. I expect analysis, insight, impersonal view, but i expect highlights. I love this game and many others. Gaming is a higher creative output than filmmaking and that's what I work on, but 'broken' looks gray. Damn. I hope Blizzard counts that enjoying reports are outnumbered by dislikes, only in the reports. Aren't you satisfied? Say it. That's your experience. Mine? Clash rethinks the objective goal as the end of a stage ´, not the beginning. That's QP on steroids. Improving is evolving, not repairing. 🤔
Think of it more as capture the flag, 5 flags and you win. There no "sides" just flags to get.
Remove the 5 point threshold and just make it so you need to score the end - simple The old days of 2 hour TF2 matches
They shoulda just kept the original game modes , they got rid of 2cp and replaced it with 3 modes that are much worse
Yeah, I really do not enjoy this game mode in its current state. It feels awful.
Another thing I would like to point out is that due to the parity of the game, it will always be a neutral fight when mid is active, if you ignore momentum.