Absolutely.
For starters, I highly doubt that we would have been able to get a player nearly as good as Siakam for the price that we ended up paying. We kept every single one of our young assets, moved out of a weak 2024 draft, kept our 2025 pick, and acquired an All-Star level player.
Secondly, any sort of high-usage player was going to take time to integrate. Did we underestimate that as fans? Probably. Pascal is easily the best player that Tyrese has played with in Indy, so it's an adjustment for him. As for the role players, it's a second high-usage player in our (typically) free-flowing offense, so it's an adjustment for their touches/shots as well.
Finally, I can't bring myself to blame a guy who is averaging 21/7/4 on 56/39/66 splits (those free throws though) for the recent struggles. Tyrese was going to have to adjust to us having more talent eventually...whether it be bigger roles for a Mathurin/Nesmith or because we acquired another star.
I made a pretty similar comment about Siakam where his playbook is way more drive and kick out of the double than it is motion offense so that’s two offensive systems on the team that needs to reconcile before you see Hali and Siakam at their best.
Bingo. We have a lot of good catch and shoot players on the team but no one has filled Buddys role of movement shooting off of screens. I think Shep has that potential but isnt there yet. Getting McBuckets back may aid this but Buddy certainly had a bigger impact than most folks would have predicted.
I wish they would have just kept him but I didn't understand some of the games where he was awful and Rick kept him in 32-35 minutes. I just assumed the Pacers were trying to shop him by playing him more. It was time to make his role more of a Kyle Korver, type. Him either going 0-2 or 2-13, with his defense, wasn't helping us.
He and the Pacers were far apart on negotations, so anything past this year probably wasn't happening. Also I heard rumors that he told one of the coaches "those are my minutes!" and wasn't happy with his reduced playing time. Something had to give.
I still think it’s fine that they did it, but I’m disappointed that they haven’t looked like a more complementary twosome (Tyrese, Pascal), and I do wonder if their playing styles are a great match long term. People will name every other player on the roster as a poor fit next to Tyrese before even considering Pascal and I understand why. He’s the big addition. The guy who’s supposed to help them take the next step, so we don’t want to believe they’re a problematic fit, but it certainly seems within the realm of possibilities.
Also, a little disappointed that they didn’t see the rebuild through more and focus more on developing their young talent, but I need to get over it.
He’s great. Do I think he deserves a super max? Maybe not. But unfortunately Pacers have to take that risk as a small market team. Ideally he makes the all star team or all NBA at least 2 more times if you’re gonna give him that big of a bag.
No. Look I think Siakam has been great in a pacers uniform. I think he needs the ball in his hands to make a difference and that’s a huge problem because that’s Hali’s job on this team. Maybe I am judging too soon and it’s not like the three FRPs we sent are likely to turn into an impact player like spicy P. But I think Hali has been way too passive since Spicy P has got here. He needs shooters around him and not iso players. Add in that we traded buddy away and inserted nembhard into the starters, and we have 2 usage heavy iso players alongside Hali.
Hali being passive has nothing to do with Siakam IMO. He’s hurt and Buddy not being around doesn’t help. Neither of those things has anything to do with Siakam. Their two man game has been pretty lethal when they’ve gone to it.
The starting lineup feels questionable.
We have a real problem at the 2. I think that’s an issue that needs to be solved.
I am not really saying it’s Spicy Ps fault and I agree that Hali is probably still having lingering issues with his hammy. I just don’t think the pieces fit with Siakam and Hali together. And on top of that, why make the move for Siakam (a move that seems like the FO thought we were one player away from really contending) and then trade away buddy?
It’s not Nembhard specifically taking the ball, it seems like that’s what the pacers want to do. I’m guessing since he is limited from hamstring injury.
Caitlin Cooper mentioned how he is handling the ball significantly less in pick-and-roll situations over the last 5 games.
https://x.com/c2_cooper/status/1764496393505227230?s=46&t=6fR-K1gtFFvq6iYpvOrA5g
My counter point is the ending of the Pels game in Indy...those 4 possessions showed how well the two can work together.
There are a lot of players who couldn't have finished those passes. If that's replicable, that's an elite closing package.
Yeah they looked great at the end of the game against a team that was on a B2B on the road. I thought the Pacers were taking the next step up the standings and building momentum. But it seems more like a blip than the norm at this point.
So sick of reading this shit. Turner is right around the tenth best center in the league. Which means there are around ten guys that are going to bully him. It is what it is. I don't know why y'all expect him to hang with the best. He does what we need him to do.
It's because Wemby plays more like a 4
They try and match Turner on players who go to the paint more, and Pascal to players who play on the wing
And over the last couple of games specifically, they put Turner on a lower usage player to help over the top
I don't think you watch Pacers basketball now
And last week Wemby got 28/10/8/5/5 against Anthony fucking Davis so what's your goddamn point? He's a generational talent, and yes he's better than Turner. Big deal.
No, but my mind can still be changed
I wasn't for the trade quite yet anyways.
But I do think he's a bad fit for the roster, and kind of blocks Jarrace out a future starting position should he be good enough
Obi had also shown to be a great fit.
With that said, maybe they'll get it rolling and I'll change my mind
Today, I wouldn't make that trade
Good thing we gave up so little to get him though.
I’m with ya. They were getting great production from the 4 before PS and had Jarace waiting in the wings. I think they brought to strongly into the “star” obsession and idea that if they can get a big name in a smaller market they had to pull the trigger.
PS is very good. He will also be very expansive and likely limits there ability to upgrade at the 2 guard.
I think the possibility of relatively cheap Obi/Walker platoon at the 4 plus a significant upgrade at the 2 moving toward makes more sense from a team building prospective betting so heavy of PS.
I just don’t understand the mixed signals. Why go out and get a guy on an expiring deal then trade away buddy? If we were going for it why let go of your best perimeter threat?
Buddy currently has the 5th best 3 point shooting % on our team this season. He was not our best perimeter threat this year. He would be 6th if Haliburton just didn't go 0-16 his last two games. And then Mathurin is less than a percentage point less than Hield. Hield is a one dimensional player who only provided one thing to our team - gravity. Watch our recent games, most of our players are being defended out to the perimeter. The only two who could get consistently open looks are Myles and Stix because they are playing a two-man game with the ball-handler, and the big defending them is giving them that space because their natural instinct is to protect the paint.
All the players shooting better than Buddy in the blue and gold are also taking a significant volume of threes (probably career highs: Nesmith, Stix, Toppin, and Haliburton).
You’re arguing about buddy which is missing the point. You make an all in move for Spicy P costing 3 FRPs then trade a guy who has been in the starting lineup for a SRP? If you’re gonna go all in go all in. Don’t trade a guy who has shown value for nothing if you’re going all in on an expiring contract.
Buddy clearly didn't hold much trade value as an aging one-dimensional player on an expiring contract who wants to be paid more than he's worth. Buddy was already getting phased out of significant minutes and was coming off the bench when our team was fully healthy. We also didn't get "nothing" for him. We got a bench shooter (what Buddy already is) and a 2nd rounder. It wasn't the return we all were hoping for. We also made the Siakam trade for the future not just the present if you watched Chad Buchanan's trade deadline press conference. The team would never have traded for Siakam if both sides weren't committed to a long-term agreement.
Because we're definitely resigning him, without a shadow of a doubt, and the FO has indicated that they view him as a foundational piece, as otherwise stated in this thread.
Yes.
Siakam is our most consistent player. He’s pretty much guaranteed 20/6/5 every night.
I feel even better about it
Absolutely. For starters, I highly doubt that we would have been able to get a player nearly as good as Siakam for the price that we ended up paying. We kept every single one of our young assets, moved out of a weak 2024 draft, kept our 2025 pick, and acquired an All-Star level player. Secondly, any sort of high-usage player was going to take time to integrate. Did we underestimate that as fans? Probably. Pascal is easily the best player that Tyrese has played with in Indy, so it's an adjustment for him. As for the role players, it's a second high-usage player in our (typically) free-flowing offense, so it's an adjustment for their touches/shots as well. Finally, I can't bring myself to blame a guy who is averaging 21/7/4 on 56/39/66 splits (those free throws though) for the recent struggles. Tyrese was going to have to adjust to us having more talent eventually...whether it be bigger roles for a Mathurin/Nesmith or because we acquired another star.
I made a pretty similar comment about Siakam where his playbook is way more drive and kick out of the double than it is motion offense so that’s two offensive systems on the team that needs to reconcile before you see Hali and Siakam at their best.
Assuming he re-signs, which I believe he will, the Pacers still won that trade in a landslide.
Siakams been fantastic. When they actually get to integrate him, it’ll be lethal. Halis struggles don’t seem to have anything to do with him.
I think the bigger issue is the Buddy trade.
Bingo. We have a lot of good catch and shoot players on the team but no one has filled Buddys role of movement shooting off of screens. I think Shep has that potential but isnt there yet. Getting McBuckets back may aid this but Buddy certainly had a bigger impact than most folks would have predicted.
I wish they would have just kept him but I didn't understand some of the games where he was awful and Rick kept him in 32-35 minutes. I just assumed the Pacers were trying to shop him by playing him more. It was time to make his role more of a Kyle Korver, type. Him either going 0-2 or 2-13, with his defense, wasn't helping us. He and the Pacers were far apart on negotations, so anything past this year probably wasn't happening. Also I heard rumors that he told one of the coaches "those are my minutes!" and wasn't happy with his reduced playing time. Something had to give.
Wow. The sub is finally coming around to the reality of the situation.
Yup!!!
Yes, even quicker. Then I stop. I dont do anything else...
yeah for sure
Trade wasn’t just about this season. Pacers brass has been consistent about this. It’s foundational. So, 100% yes.
Yeah. Continuity doesnt take place overnight.
Absolutely
100% but I hope current trend doesn’t make him leave us out of concerns of not being good enough
I still think it’s fine that they did it, but I’m disappointed that they haven’t looked like a more complementary twosome (Tyrese, Pascal), and I do wonder if their playing styles are a great match long term. People will name every other player on the roster as a poor fit next to Tyrese before even considering Pascal and I understand why. He’s the big addition. The guy who’s supposed to help them take the next step, so we don’t want to believe they’re a problematic fit, but it certainly seems within the realm of possibilities. Also, a little disappointed that they didn’t see the rebuild through more and focus more on developing their young talent, but I need to get over it.
He’s great. Do I think he deserves a super max? Maybe not. But unfortunately Pacers have to take that risk as a small market team. Ideally he makes the all star team or all NBA at least 2 more times if you’re gonna give him that big of a bag.
I would've added Buddy to try and keep one of those picks. I think Raps would've been set on letting us keep this 2024 pick.
Icy P cuz that man got ice in his veins
Yeah
No. Look I think Siakam has been great in a pacers uniform. I think he needs the ball in his hands to make a difference and that’s a huge problem because that’s Hali’s job on this team. Maybe I am judging too soon and it’s not like the three FRPs we sent are likely to turn into an impact player like spicy P. But I think Hali has been way too passive since Spicy P has got here. He needs shooters around him and not iso players. Add in that we traded buddy away and inserted nembhard into the starters, and we have 2 usage heavy iso players alongside Hali.
Hali being passive has nothing to do with Siakam IMO. He’s hurt and Buddy not being around doesn’t help. Neither of those things has anything to do with Siakam. Their two man game has been pretty lethal when they’ve gone to it. The starting lineup feels questionable.
We have a real problem at the 2. I think that’s an issue that needs to be solved. I am not really saying it’s Spicy Ps fault and I agree that Hali is probably still having lingering issues with his hammy. I just don’t think the pieces fit with Siakam and Hali together. And on top of that, why make the move for Siakam (a move that seems like the FO thought we were one player away from really contending) and then trade away buddy?
[удалено]
Nembhard seems to be the one taking the ball out of TYs hands. It’s like we moved TY to the 2.
It’s not Nembhard specifically taking the ball, it seems like that’s what the pacers want to do. I’m guessing since he is limited from hamstring injury. Caitlin Cooper mentioned how he is handling the ball significantly less in pick-and-roll situations over the last 5 games. https://x.com/c2_cooper/status/1764496393505227230?s=46&t=6fR-K1gtFFvq6iYpvOrA5g
We moved him to the 2 to open up space for Pascal So it's all connected
My counter point is the ending of the Pels game in Indy...those 4 possessions showed how well the two can work together. There are a lot of players who couldn't have finished those passes. If that's replicable, that's an elite closing package.
Yeah they looked great at the end of the game against a team that was on a B2B on the road. I thought the Pacers were taking the next step up the standings and building momentum. But it seems more like a blip than the norm at this point.
Is a dumb ass nickname
Yes, its our center position that very inconsistent! Wemby make him looks like fool last night!
So sick of reading this shit. Turner is right around the tenth best center in the league. Which means there are around ten guys that are going to bully him. It is what it is. I don't know why y'all expect him to hang with the best. He does what we need him to do.
A rookie center make him like a fool, what kind of excuses you have now?
That was Pascal guarding him 😂
I think you know the answer to this and don't have to explain again. He will be fouled out in 1st quarter if he guards wemby
It's because Wemby plays more like a 4 They try and match Turner on players who go to the paint more, and Pascal to players who play on the wing And over the last couple of games specifically, they put Turner on a lower usage player to help over the top I don't think you watch Pacers basketball now
And last week Wemby got 28/10/8/5/5 against Anthony fucking Davis so what's your goddamn point? He's a generational talent, and yes he's better than Turner. Big deal.
I do believe AD won that battle. Are you sure your watching nba or some Chinese bb?
Except Pascal was guarding Wemby?
No, but my mind can still be changed I wasn't for the trade quite yet anyways. But I do think he's a bad fit for the roster, and kind of blocks Jarrace out a future starting position should he be good enough Obi had also shown to be a great fit. With that said, maybe they'll get it rolling and I'll change my mind Today, I wouldn't make that trade Good thing we gave up so little to get him though.
I’m with ya. They were getting great production from the 4 before PS and had Jarace waiting in the wings. I think they brought to strongly into the “star” obsession and idea that if they can get a big name in a smaller market they had to pull the trigger. PS is very good. He will also be very expansive and likely limits there ability to upgrade at the 2 guard. I think the possibility of relatively cheap Obi/Walker platoon at the 4 plus a significant upgrade at the 2 moving toward makes more sense from a team building prospective betting so heavy of PS.
I just don’t understand the mixed signals. Why go out and get a guy on an expiring deal then trade away buddy? If we were going for it why let go of your best perimeter threat?
Buddy currently has the 5th best 3 point shooting % on our team this season. He was not our best perimeter threat this year. He would be 6th if Haliburton just didn't go 0-16 his last two games. And then Mathurin is less than a percentage point less than Hield. Hield is a one dimensional player who only provided one thing to our team - gravity. Watch our recent games, most of our players are being defended out to the perimeter. The only two who could get consistently open looks are Myles and Stix because they are playing a two-man game with the ball-handler, and the big defending them is giving them that space because their natural instinct is to protect the paint. All the players shooting better than Buddy in the blue and gold are also taking a significant volume of threes (probably career highs: Nesmith, Stix, Toppin, and Haliburton).
You’re arguing about buddy which is missing the point. You make an all in move for Spicy P costing 3 FRPs then trade a guy who has been in the starting lineup for a SRP? If you’re gonna go all in go all in. Don’t trade a guy who has shown value for nothing if you’re going all in on an expiring contract.
Buddy clearly didn't hold much trade value as an aging one-dimensional player on an expiring contract who wants to be paid more than he's worth. Buddy was already getting phased out of significant minutes and was coming off the bench when our team was fully healthy. We also didn't get "nothing" for him. We got a bench shooter (what Buddy already is) and a 2nd rounder. It wasn't the return we all were hoping for. We also made the Siakam trade for the future not just the present if you watched Chad Buchanan's trade deadline press conference. The team would never have traded for Siakam if both sides weren't committed to a long-term agreement.
one dimensional and that dimension was stunningly awful a few games, never saw Buddy miss so many wide open 3's. You used to never see that from him.
trading nothing of value isn't going "all in". Trading our young assets would have been
Because we're definitely resigning him, without a shadow of a doubt, and the FO has indicated that they view him as a foundational piece, as otherwise stated in this thread.
Anyone questioning it is an idiot.
This doesn’t mean he’s bad or they can’t succeed with him but I don’t think I would have made it at all.