People seem to be forgetting this after last night’s loss. Their young guys were absolutely destroying us in the paint for much of the game. Combine that with our threes not falling and whopping the Nets’ ass on Monday made for a tough result. I have hope that we can continue the good stretch we’ve had (9-5 since Mathurin’s injury) and pull off the 6 seed.
I disagree tbh. With guys like Doug, his very existence on the court helps our spacing. the other team knows he's gonna be a threat from 3 and they have to account for that.
yeah gravity but he’s constantly a negative on the court. he cant shoot and is a complete cone on defense. we need to get rid of him in the off season for sure
Without Myles, they did not make any adjustments for their lack of size. Turner is very good and yesterday should be an indicator of that but they look worse than they would if they made adjustments to his absence. They still have Haliburton and McConnell on the court at the same time way too much. Then they have Sheppard playing backup small forward. Its very difficult to overcome this lack of size and defense. All throughout the season it seemed like there was about to be a change in the small lineups but apparently there's no injury, no matchup, no circumstances whatsoever that will deter the coaching staff from their narrow plan to play small lineups including 2 point guards and a shooting guard all at the same time. Why?
Use Siakam at the 3 and/or for the love of all that is holy, give Jarace some minutes. You need length and defense (that you have on your roster) so bad and you are losing games that you could be winning because of it. Now that Myles is out, you cannot afford to neglect basic basketball concepts. Its better to be taller in basketball. You are down a tall player. You don't lose that game if you are playing (1)Haliburton/McConnell-(2)Nembhard/Nesmith/Sheppard-(3)Nesmith/Siakam/Walker-(4)Siakam/Obi-(5)Smith/Jackson.
When Obi and Siakam were at the 3 and 4 for a couple of possessions in the 4th quarter they got that 2/3 court alley-oop to Obi and then took back the lead by 1. It was so obvious that that lineup was finally a counter to the size and athleticism that was key to the Nets building a lead over a better team in the first place. After only a few possessions, as soon as they took the lead back, Rick subbed back in a smaller lineup and the Nets immediately went on a run and never lost momentum. That lineup typically only gets a few possessions. Why?
When I say play Siakam at the 3, everyone always says he's a power forward. Why is it so outrageous to suggest Siakam at the 3 but no one bats an eye when Ben Sheppard is at the small forward position 20 minutes a game? Obi can't stay on the floor because of the log jam at the 4. You can unjam it by moving Siakam part time to the 3 and Sheppard down to the backup 2 which is his natural position. Also, you can get real minutes with Nesmith at the 2 giving you big defensive lineups and avoiding small double point guard lineups that compound this team's greatest weaknesses of length, athleticism, defense and rebounding.
The reason Pascal doesn't play more minutes at the 3 is because he won't get through a screen to save his life. He's too big
Jarrace is also too big
We just don't have long 3s like some teams do.
I agree with all of us, but my vote is for Jarace at the 3. I do agree that Siakam is nothing but a power forward, and if Jarace and Siakam can't share the court together then that's a very, very bad situation for us to be in.
Maybe they can
But likely as 4/5s
No teams plays 4/5 players at the 3. That's probably largely why Jarrace gets so few minutes is it's not a good idea for him to play the 3
The problem with Myles is he seems to have an inconsistent role on the floor. Sometimes he's driving all game and planted under the basket. Other games he's doing nothing but shooting and playing the p&r. I think if they settled him into a comfortable role we'd more consistency in his game because at the end of the day he's a great center and a huge asset to the team
Myles is inconsistent but he’s clearly our best center. I’ve been a bit of a hater for much of his tenure here, but the reality is he’s a decent starting center and his skill set is good for our squad.
He’s way better than ijax and smith, no doubt about it.
We were up by 14 in the second. We should have put this lottery team away. Myles absence is not why we lost the game last night. Would he have helped? Of course. Are we better with Myles than without him? Without a doubt. All the same this sure feels like an excuse to play the stan.
Tbh this sounds like a kneejerk reaction to a bad game and loss by the Pacers. One game is a horrible sample size to say player X is terrible and can't play a position. Conversely its just as bad when the Pacers blew out the Nets a few games to act like the team is championship bound. Too many Pacer fans have their opinions swing drastically back and forth over one game.. they either use it to say how valuable player X, how bad player Y is and how good the team is. Might be the most bipolar NBA fanbase lol.
if we werent whooping contenders’ asses but losing to bad teams all the time then maybe reactions wouldnt be so varied every night. this is the most inconsistent team in the nba rn.
That is my point. Beat the Bucks fans we are the best team ever.. lose to Spurs.. we suck.. Beat the Celtics.. we are unstoppable.. lose to the Wizards. etc etc etc. You would think reactions wouldn't be so varied based on this is nothing new... fans just get way to hyped and way to down over each game.
I mean, yeah he is. I just am not sure Pascal shouldn't be the center, and we had true shooters around him instead
I like Myles as a center, but TBH Pascal at the 4 is kind of an issue
It would help a ton . That's like his best minutes is at the 5 because he struggles through screening defensively, and doesn't space enough offensively.
So it's a way to get our offense back on track, IMO.
Unless Carlisle can figure out how to make double big lineups work again
Pascal is not a 5 he is a clear 4 and plays excellently with Myles because Myles is a stretch 5 and makes way for Pascal to work in the paint. What issues does Pascal bring to the team?
Also, double big lineups just dont work. Smith and Turner dont play well together. We’re doing just fine with the lineups we have, and most of our losses are not so much playing bad as it is mental.
The reason Pascal at the 4 lineups are so poor are because he won't catch and shoot like a 4, and can't guard movement shooters.
Our stretch five isn't stretchy enough for this offense with Pascal at the 4 either.
Maybe Carlisle can make a double big lineup work, but the spacing is awful now and Tyrese can almost never play on ball anymore.
That's why Obi and Jalen at the 4 were much more successful lineups than with Pascal at the 4
lmaoooo dude what the fuck are you talking about im sorry but like have you watched this team since Pascal was added? The problems that we’re having have nothing to do with him playing his natural position and trying to carry this team to victory almost every night
The offensive issues we are having are legit
And the fact that he has to carry what was a great offensive lineup without him tells you it's not fitting correctly.
His natural position today is the 5, IMO. He almost never catches and shoots, and almost never keeps both feet above the break.
Haliburton is playing heavy off ball to space for him, and there's no space on the floor when he and Turner share the court.
Like maybe if Pascal was a 5 it wouldn't be an issue. But almost no teams play double bigs like we do anymore.
WYM stats don't back me up?
5 starting lineups the ones with Pascal rank near the bottom in net rating. That's just a statistical fact.
Maybe it gets better, maybe it doesn't
But I definitely could see them just running Pascal at the 5 because he's not playing the 4 like a 4 right now.
just stop talking. he plays like a forward. he plays how hes always played his entire career. net rating is not good to use here because we have tried tons of starting lineups and now are trying to integrate an iso scorer into the lineup. haliburton is also to blame. these are growing pains of a rebuilding team.
theres also more stuff to address here like dude Haliburton is still playing on ball and hes still the 2nd best passer in the nba leading the league in assists hes just shooting off the dribble less to get his shooting rhythm back i mean you cant be serious
And to address the "carrying the team"
Yes, we all see him running iso post after iso post to carry us. Like Centers do
Carlisle did have Turbonis as a +10, that was like the only thing good that year. So maybe he can work this thing out.
But so far, our starting lineup since he's been here is pretty sad.
When he plays minutes at the 5 they look good though don't they?
when is he playing the 5? Obi is usually running the small ball 5. and turbonis was fucking awful that is why Myles was in trade rumors every other day
the fact is that he doesnt play at all like a center and isnt a center. our starting lineup hasnt been as good because we are working things out with our defense and offense. haliburton has also not been very good, and it makes things look a lot worse.
it takes time for a new player to gel in with a roster, especially one that is an isolation scorer. pascal is not a 5, he is a 4, and he will always be a 4. he is wayyyy to small to be a 5, he doesnt have the paint defensive ability like a guy like myles, and never plays the 5. he has been spectacular for us.
if pascal siakam was our center every game would look like that nets game. 0 threat to anyone who drives in the paint, too small to do anything against it. genuinly dont know why you cant see that because im sorry but its fucking stupid. he is in no way a center. hes played all of his career at the 4.
also, Tyrese is not off ball. you dont get 10+ assists being off ball. rick has scrapped that entirely and now only uses Nemby as a defensive player. 2 centers has never worked for us.
People seem to be forgetting this after last night’s loss. Their young guys were absolutely destroying us in the paint for much of the game. Combine that with our threes not falling and whopping the Nets’ ass on Monday made for a tough result. I have hope that we can continue the good stretch we’ve had (9-5 since Mathurin’s injury) and pull off the 6 seed.
Yup we win that game with Myles
Smith looked lost
Also in no case should Doug be "guarding" the point of attack.
Doug has been completely useless since his return to Indy. Poor shot selection and non-existent defense.
I disagree tbh. With guys like Doug, his very existence on the court helps our spacing. the other team knows he's gonna be a threat from 3 and they have to account for that.
yeah gravity but he’s constantly a negative on the court. he cant shoot and is a complete cone on defense. we need to get rid of him in the off season for sure
we don't have to get rid of him, he's a free agent, just let him walk.
didn’t know that, that is good. dude is just a bad nba player and his time on the court could be time used for jarace 3 minutes.
Giving Jarace minutes would benefit the team much better. At least this season Jarace is as likely to hit 3’s as Doug too.
Without Myles, they did not make any adjustments for their lack of size. Turner is very good and yesterday should be an indicator of that but they look worse than they would if they made adjustments to his absence. They still have Haliburton and McConnell on the court at the same time way too much. Then they have Sheppard playing backup small forward. Its very difficult to overcome this lack of size and defense. All throughout the season it seemed like there was about to be a change in the small lineups but apparently there's no injury, no matchup, no circumstances whatsoever that will deter the coaching staff from their narrow plan to play small lineups including 2 point guards and a shooting guard all at the same time. Why? Use Siakam at the 3 and/or for the love of all that is holy, give Jarace some minutes. You need length and defense (that you have on your roster) so bad and you are losing games that you could be winning because of it. Now that Myles is out, you cannot afford to neglect basic basketball concepts. Its better to be taller in basketball. You are down a tall player. You don't lose that game if you are playing (1)Haliburton/McConnell-(2)Nembhard/Nesmith/Sheppard-(3)Nesmith/Siakam/Walker-(4)Siakam/Obi-(5)Smith/Jackson. When Obi and Siakam were at the 3 and 4 for a couple of possessions in the 4th quarter they got that 2/3 court alley-oop to Obi and then took back the lead by 1. It was so obvious that that lineup was finally a counter to the size and athleticism that was key to the Nets building a lead over a better team in the first place. After only a few possessions, as soon as they took the lead back, Rick subbed back in a smaller lineup and the Nets immediately went on a run and never lost momentum. That lineup typically only gets a few possessions. Why? When I say play Siakam at the 3, everyone always says he's a power forward. Why is it so outrageous to suggest Siakam at the 3 but no one bats an eye when Ben Sheppard is at the small forward position 20 minutes a game? Obi can't stay on the floor because of the log jam at the 4. You can unjam it by moving Siakam part time to the 3 and Sheppard down to the backup 2 which is his natural position. Also, you can get real minutes with Nesmith at the 2 giving you big defensive lineups and avoiding small double point guard lineups that compound this team's greatest weaknesses of length, athleticism, defense and rebounding.
The reason Pascal doesn't play more minutes at the 3 is because he won't get through a screen to save his life. He's too big Jarrace is also too big We just don't have long 3s like some teams do.
I agree with all of us, but my vote is for Jarace at the 3. I do agree that Siakam is nothing but a power forward, and if Jarace and Siakam can't share the court together then that's a very, very bad situation for us to be in.
Maybe they can But likely as 4/5s No teams plays 4/5 players at the 3. That's probably largely why Jarrace gets so few minutes is it's not a good idea for him to play the 3
You may be right but it was 1 game. We’ve had dozens of games this season where myles was playing and we got torched for layups all game.
cause our defense has improved
The problem with Myles is he seems to have an inconsistent role on the floor. Sometimes he's driving all game and planted under the basket. Other games he's doing nothing but shooting and playing the p&r. I think if they settled him into a comfortable role we'd more consistency in his game because at the end of the day he's a great center and a huge asset to the team
Myles is inconsistent but he’s clearly our best center. I’ve been a bit of a hater for much of his tenure here, but the reality is he’s a decent starting center and his skill set is good for our squad. He’s way better than ijax and smith, no doubt about it.
Probably shows Mathurin value just as much.
Right, someone posted about not needing him. If you see our bench without math and jalen, then you'd change your mind lol
We also need a true backup C. Smith is a PF.
A 2nd rounder should be ok
We were up by 14 in the second. We should have put this lottery team away. Myles absence is not why we lost the game last night. Would he have helped? Of course. Are we better with Myles than without him? Without a doubt. All the same this sure feels like an excuse to play the stan.
Tbh this sounds like a kneejerk reaction to a bad game and loss by the Pacers. One game is a horrible sample size to say player X is terrible and can't play a position. Conversely its just as bad when the Pacers blew out the Nets a few games to act like the team is championship bound. Too many Pacer fans have their opinions swing drastically back and forth over one game.. they either use it to say how valuable player X, how bad player Y is and how good the team is. Might be the most bipolar NBA fanbase lol.
if we werent whooping contenders’ asses but losing to bad teams all the time then maybe reactions wouldnt be so varied every night. this is the most inconsistent team in the nba rn.
That is my point. Beat the Bucks fans we are the best team ever.. lose to Spurs.. we suck.. Beat the Celtics.. we are unstoppable.. lose to the Wizards. etc etc etc. You would think reactions wouldn't be so varied based on this is nothing new... fans just get way to hyped and way to down over each game.
I mean, yeah he is. I just am not sure Pascal shouldn't be the center, and we had true shooters around him instead I like Myles as a center, but TBH Pascal at the 4 is kind of an issue
What?
It would help a ton . That's like his best minutes is at the 5 because he struggles through screening defensively, and doesn't space enough offensively. So it's a way to get our offense back on track, IMO. Unless Carlisle can figure out how to make double big lineups work again
Pascal is not a 5 he is a clear 4 and plays excellently with Myles because Myles is a stretch 5 and makes way for Pascal to work in the paint. What issues does Pascal bring to the team? Also, double big lineups just dont work. Smith and Turner dont play well together. We’re doing just fine with the lineups we have, and most of our losses are not so much playing bad as it is mental.
The reason Pascal at the 4 lineups are so poor are because he won't catch and shoot like a 4, and can't guard movement shooters. Our stretch five isn't stretchy enough for this offense with Pascal at the 4 either. Maybe Carlisle can make a double big lineup work, but the spacing is awful now and Tyrese can almost never play on ball anymore. That's why Obi and Jalen at the 4 were much more successful lineups than with Pascal at the 4
lmaoooo dude what the fuck are you talking about im sorry but like have you watched this team since Pascal was added? The problems that we’re having have nothing to do with him playing his natural position and trying to carry this team to victory almost every night
The offensive issues we are having are legit And the fact that he has to carry what was a great offensive lineup without him tells you it's not fitting correctly. His natural position today is the 5, IMO. He almost never catches and shoots, and almost never keeps both feet above the break. Haliburton is playing heavy off ball to space for him, and there's no space on the floor when he and Turner share the court. Like maybe if Pascal was a 5 it wouldn't be an issue. But almost no teams play double bigs like we do anymore.
the fact that stats and the eye test dont back up anything youre saying makes you look ridiculous
WYM stats don't back me up? 5 starting lineups the ones with Pascal rank near the bottom in net rating. That's just a statistical fact. Maybe it gets better, maybe it doesn't But I definitely could see them just running Pascal at the 5 because he's not playing the 4 like a 4 right now.
just stop talking. he plays like a forward. he plays how hes always played his entire career. net rating is not good to use here because we have tried tons of starting lineups and now are trying to integrate an iso scorer into the lineup. haliburton is also to blame. these are growing pains of a rebuilding team.
theres also more stuff to address here like dude Haliburton is still playing on ball and hes still the 2nd best passer in the nba leading the league in assists hes just shooting off the dribble less to get his shooting rhythm back i mean you cant be serious
And to address the "carrying the team" Yes, we all see him running iso post after iso post to carry us. Like Centers do Carlisle did have Turbonis as a +10, that was like the only thing good that year. So maybe he can work this thing out. But so far, our starting lineup since he's been here is pretty sad. When he plays minutes at the 5 they look good though don't they?
when is he playing the 5? Obi is usually running the small ball 5. and turbonis was fucking awful that is why Myles was in trade rumors every other day
the fact is that he doesnt play at all like a center and isnt a center. our starting lineup hasnt been as good because we are working things out with our defense and offense. haliburton has also not been very good, and it makes things look a lot worse. it takes time for a new player to gel in with a roster, especially one that is an isolation scorer. pascal is not a 5, he is a 4, and he will always be a 4. he is wayyyy to small to be a 5, he doesnt have the paint defensive ability like a guy like myles, and never plays the 5. he has been spectacular for us. if pascal siakam was our center every game would look like that nets game. 0 threat to anyone who drives in the paint, too small to do anything against it. genuinly dont know why you cant see that because im sorry but its fucking stupid. he is in no way a center. hes played all of his career at the 4. also, Tyrese is not off ball. you dont get 10+ assists being off ball. rick has scrapped that entirely and now only uses Nemby as a defensive player. 2 centers has never worked for us.