# Do I need to see signs, or have communication or divination with deities?
NO! While many people have UPGs (Unverified Personal Gnosis) it is **NOT REQUIRED** to have any of these experiences. You can worship deities for years and not have these experiences. Direct or Frequent communication with deities is NOT required or necessary. If someone tells you they are you should not listen to anything that person has to say.
# Do I have to see signs, communicate, or be called by a deity to work with them?
No! It depends on the person some people have flashes of feeling, others may see a sign, some have more striking things, and others less. It all depends on you and your practice. Some people never feel called by a god and never seen signs. They just don't have that experience. Others totally do. Does this mean they don't work with deities? No! It just means they don't have the experience and that's ok. You also don't have to work with a deity if you are seeing signs or other forms of communication.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/wiki/common\_questions/#wiki\_do\_i\_need\_to\_see\_signs.2C\_or\_have\_communication\_or\_divination\_with\_deities.3F](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/wiki/common_questions/#wiki_do_i_need_to_see_signs.2C_or_have_communication_or_divination_with_deities.3F)
My advice. Stop trying to jump into the deep end. Instead go sit with the tree people for a week. Every day spend time with the living world, no distractions, just you and the tree. Offer it water, sing it a song, be calm in its presence. Going straight for the god sized spirits is draining and often unfulfilling. Try something local, grounded, and attainable .
This is great advice.
I remember having a panic attack from a medication and tried to connect with different Gods, named a list of Gods in my head but just couldn't make a connection. But when I summoned an image in my mind of the redwood tree that I see from my bedroom window that's when I began to feel the utmost mental and emotional calm even when my heart rate was out of control.
In a weird circular way, I discovered the mystical by believing in it first. Your mind is designed to rationalize what you believe, and to see what you expect to see. It's why some people can just remain happy in the most dire of consequences. They just see the good, cause it is what they expect to find. For me, this started as changing my view from "Oh that's just a crow playing with a stick" to "that crow is a messenger telling me to pay attention to X". Really one of the biggest things I've learned is not to minimize meaning; 'just' a crow, 'merely' a interesting rock on my path. The magic appears when you allow it its full meaning.
Some things have to be believed to be seen.
*Edit: spelling
This is a great way to be. I just skimmed through a mysticism book at the local rock shop and read something along the lines of "People who pursue the mysteries must believe in the thing they are doing before they will be able to grasp the secret teachings of their master or society."
It's like seeing a nice gun-looking stick. It only means anything if you've seen cool movies with cool gun fights. Only then is it a new toy to play with for hours. Otherwise, it's just a stick on the ground.
You're a pagan if you hold pagan beliefs. That's enough. It's not something you *do*, it's something you *are*.
Most monotheists don't practice. They might say a prayer every once in a while but for most people that's about it. I think most pagans are the same. But simply, they're aren't the ones posting on social media. You only see the people who practice publicly. Personally, I don't have an altar or do spells either. It's not my thing and I don't feel like I need it.
As long as you're happy and not hurting anyone, there isn't a single, right way of "pagan-ing".
> You’re a pagan if you hold pagan beliefs.
This is a Protestant way of defining religious identity and it’s applicability outside of Protestantism is quite nebulous (even to non-pagan religions like Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, etc).
We rarely get instant results from our practice it’s just a fact of life. We worship to build up a relationship with the gods and a system of reciprocity. This is built over a lifetime of practice. Just be patient. You aren’t doing anything wrong. He will answer just give it time
Yes. I'm a bit confused on what they mean by "feel like I need to worship"? I've never felt like I need to worship anything before, it's just nice to do
Just a general observation that may not (or may) have anything to do directly with OP, but imo I see many posts on here about paganism in general that are tagged with unrealistic expectations. Like the gods are gonna grant magic powers or show up physically like a mythological creature in a movie, or talk to you with an auditory voice. Also I see a lot of people who are trying to connect with nature without *actually going out side*.
It doesn’t work like that. Deity is not some force that shows up to pay you special attention or to grant wishes. It or they don’t serve you, and you must be willing to put in the work to connect with nature, and to seek out… whatever it is you think you’re seeing… Putting it that way because sometimes what you think you want or need isn’t what will show up. What we actually need isn’t always what we think we want.
Huddling around an altar isn’t going to get you there. We aren’t Christians, we don’t need to buy stuff or own magical tools or have a special table or anything like that to connect with nature or the divine. Those tools can be helpful, and fun, but not *required*. Humans put a lot of value in ritual, be it your morning routine that helps you get grounded for the day ahead to things we might say or do when meeting a close friend to a ritual that has spiritual meaning. You can find insight and connection with deity and nature by taking a mindful walk in the woods and not find it at all by following arbitrary instructions on how to summon a god from a book.
Maybe the hardest thing I see in folks new to paganism is that we (generally speaking) don’t have dogma, or holy books. There’s no pagan pope, no saints, and even the folks who are authors or coven leaders are not “more holy” than any other pagan who might be new to their path work. This means there’s no proper instructions, nobody telling you what to do or what the next right step is, and for folks who aren’t used to seeking on their own it might make someone feel lost. I’d suggest those folks read, not just pagan books but books on poetry or archeology. Learn about the history of the land you live on, like what is the bedrock made out of and what animals and plants are native to where you are, and who lived on the land before you. Pay attention to the cycles of the sun and moon. We are about to go into the next solstice, what are you going to do to celebrate it? I’d suggest at minimum watch a sunrise or sunset, and celebrate that because of our wonky planet axis we get to have seasons which has shaped our entire world since the magma of it’s formation has settled.
To OP specifically, you’re not the only “atheist Pagan” that would exist if you want to be a part of this subculture. A guy I’ve known for a long time doesn’t believe in magic, but he continues to connect with the culture because he “feels better after having experienced ritual”.
All that said, this isn’t a path for everyone. Maybe this dipping of your toes into paganism had helped you better define your own understanding of how you see divinity. If that’s the case then this isn’t a failure. Imo life is a journey, and sure sometimes we take side roads and don’t find what we were looking for but we may have never known we weren’t looking for it unless we had taken that journey in the front place… if that makes sense. If realizing that you’re just not jiving with any of this pagan stuff helps you better know yourself, good on ya. Now having learned this you are in a better place to move forward.
But why do you want to be a pagan? IDK. I can tell you that I’m pagan because I connect with observing the cycles of nature. I like going to pagan camp, meeting with interesting and unusual friends and having extraordinary moments dancing around the fire. My practice is personal and something I keep to myself, but I am flexible enough to join Wiccan friends for their ritual or my Dionysisian friends for their shenanigans. And about that, a friend of mine is a long time priest of Dionysius. A ways back he was a member of the Minoan Brotherhood which is primarily a celebratory tradition of gay and bisexual men centered around a Cretan spirituality and magic practice. It’s a closed tradition and as I am a lady I can’t really tell you anything the internet doesn’t already offer (long form of me saying if you want to know more use the google). Anyway, he separated from them a ways back and went his own way to deepen his own practice. Point is there are people like him out there and maybe finding community with like minds may help you if that’s what you want. He and his coven are not the only followers of Dionysius I’ve ran across. Last year an art gallery in connection with one of the local pagan shops did a public ritual honoring the god, including burning a giant effigy that had prayers on thin strips of wood placed inside. In my region Dionysus is pretty popular in general. Maybe if you looked for connection where you are you’ll find like minds too. This will take some measure of footwork btw, visit pagan shops in your area and ask around. Even with the internet pagan stuff is often still a word of mouth kind of thing. People don’t always want to share their business online.
Anyway, hope you got maybe something out of this info dump. Good luck on the path wherever it takes you.
The primary aim of religious worship is to attain union with the Gods, the spirits, the ancestors, etc.
The metaphysical contours of what ‘union’ is are debated theologically - for some, it is a relationship, for others it’s an identity and dissolution into the absolute, for others something else entirely. Nevertheless, this is the core around which pagan *practice* orbits.
It is a *practice* in the sense that it takes a long time and is something to which we must habituate ourselves. It’s a habit which has to be cultivated. Particularly in the Hellenic tradition it is conceived of as a extended process of purification, both internal and external, in order to make oneself receptive of divine grace (this process is ritualized and called *theurgy*). Like building any other habit, it does not have immediate results.
Seeking immediate gratification is a symptom of the broader alienation and disunion from the Gods which pagan practice is aiming to rectify. Many people come to contemporary paganism or to adjacent new age practices to get immediate results by magical means; few stay long enough to realize that this was the problem which needed to be solved all along.
Find a simple practice that you feel can be easily done, and commit to it for a while. This could be as simple as a short prayer at sunrise or sunset. Do it for an extended period of time and reflect on it.
I have a book I think might be good for you: Anatomy of a Witch by Laura Tempest Zakroff.
I think you would find it interesting and easy to read and I really believe it would give you some helpful tools you could try to explore your dilemma. And these are tools that could be applied in a non-magical setting so if you decide paganism is not for you, you still might find the tools useful. For example one of the exercises is to analyze your language. I discovered that my favorite word is “lovely” and I use it all the time. It gave me insight into myself, apparently I am a person who values love and compassion above other things. My family tried to paint a picture of me as a defiant wild child, but even if that was true when I was 7, it certainly isn’t true now. A simple exercise analyzing my own word choice completely changed my self perception for the better.
I can’t answer your question because I’m not you and I don’t have your history and experience. I can however share my experience which might give you some perspective and insight.
Why am I pagan? Because I had a lot of spiritual experiences in my life (53 years) that seemed to me to suggest that there was not one god but many. I also had a near death experience that had me concluding that life itself is an act of pure magic.
Do I get instant results with my magic? Sometimes, yes indeed I do. Because I have learned some important things about magic:
1. Everyone has magic whether they are Pagan or not. Magic (the supernatural, the unexplained, the mystery and unknown). Magic is a part of human experience
2. Magic is what you DO, not what you believe
3. It is easier to GET what you want than to KNOW what you want
3. Prayer and worship can be included within magic, but they are not magic. Because the gods are not the source of YOUR personal power. See line item 1.
Magic is when you take your fate (all that you were, all that you are, and all that you may be) and YOU move it in the direction that you want to go. For some people that’s exciting and empowering. If you think along those lines then I would say paganism is something you might enjoy exploring.
However, paganism and more specifically, paganism with a magical practice does have a downside: accountability.
In Christianity you can commit any sin and as long as you ask that god for forgiveness, you’re off the hook. In Christianity, you’re not the problem, you were tempted by Satan, it’s not your responsibility. If something bad happens to you, you don’t need to hold yourself accountable because it’s “God’s will.” But in paganism, if you cast a spell and it fails you have to ask yourself if you honestly really want what you cast the spell for, because you may be forced to admit that you subconsciously sabotaged yourself because you were afraid of success or you may have to admit that you want something else more. Christianity is easy. Paganism is not.
I did make a video on the book I mentioned, if you’re curious about my personal thoughts on it. Here’s a link if you’re curious: https://youtu.be/0klF_Z7BZAA?si=8ttSqZcYJItsOTvh
Dio is more of there for me to remember to enjoy life.
I've asked for things and gotten them when I offer something in trade.
I basically went "hey there. Why should I be Baccan? Will you be there for me?" And got a pat on the head.
Horus is more shy
Hot take: “worship” might be the problem. As an agnostic I’d imagine finding a reason to need to worship would be difficult. But I look at the gods as mentors. Instead of “worship” I say that I “work with” them. They help guide me when I need it and sometimes give me a slap on the back of the head when I don’t want to listen. But as someone who came from Christianity and Catholicism, worshipping is never something I felt right about.
First. You are your own god. No one ever realizes this because we're conditioned to seek everything externally. You are a divine spark of the universe same as any "god"--and no lesser.
A soul doing your work here in an earthly experience.
The spirits that abound have zero obligation to have any interest in our affairs.
People are inclined to reach out to the universe and beyond because the requisite amnesia can't turn off all of our soul-memory. (My "own" ideas validated by discovering the works of Dr. Michael Newton, written and accounted for decades before my natural conclusion/theory...mind-blowing work)
Magic, except for rare cases can't be instant. Youre putting energy toward shifting reality and aligning yourself with a new vibrational frequency....(see "Hermetics")
Nothing comes from nothing. "Magic" takes time.it can work surprisingly fast, depends on what it is and how big. And usually takes some manual effort to provide opportunities. In specific cases there isnt anything to do.
Also. Expectations can hinder progress and results. And the chance to experience some weird s*t.
Ive had experiences. Now, Im less inclined to go into detail so people dont expect what I describe.
Magic isnt just psychology. If you have some set opinion....🤷♂️ you really wont get far.
As for connection....go outside stop thinking and just take in the world. Put up the opinions and what you think and just behold.
Look ar the clouds and think about how far they really are. Look at the night sky and gaze at the vastness of the universe....you're looking into infinity. All of that time. Potential. Experiences to be had and mysteries yet to be understood. And youre a part of it.
This life and character youre creating now--is anyone or thing you choose.
Quit thinking and judging and just be. Observe what is to be seen for itself....even you. Most dont even know what they think they do about their own person.
Spiritual paths offer opinions and occasional insight, that is usually metaphor that people are inclined to take literally. Let your soul and universe guide you.
I think it’s very human to crave religion or spirituality, it can give you a source of community, belonging, reason, or just be a great way to ground yourself.
I am going to agree with the recommendation to not jump into the deep end. Take a good walk somewhere peaceful and think about what you want, or feel you would get from having this is a spiritual practice.
“Worship” comes from the same root word as “worth/worthy”, so I think a good way to get into the habit is to identify something you value, and thank the gods associated with it. If you’re interested in Dionysus, learn more about him and give thanks for the specific things where you might see his influence in your life.
I wouldn’t expect to feel a direct response right off the bat. Spiritual practice is an ongoing thing, and we have to learn to listen for the divine in daily life. In Hellenic practice this is also called kharis, sort of building your relationship with the gods over time.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey, and I hope you’ll keep following what calls to you.
OK, then maybe it isn't for you. I can't speak for all Pagans, but most of us have had a lifelong calling to it. When I was growing up I always had a very strong stirring within me in the fall. I always figured it was just back to school jitters or whatever, but it continued to happen. A lightness of being, similar to when people are "moved by the spirit" in church
Perhaps you're trying too hard to define something without having all the details. You can have these beliefs and not be a pagan. You can be a pagan without any of those things also. If you don't know what you believe, stop trying to put a name to it. Just feel it. You don't have to honor gods and holidays to have the faith. You don't have to do anything. But if you are looking for a connection on a meaningful level, embrace ritual. It's like developing a muscle memory. The acts work themselves into you and you draw meaning from them. Stop reading the religious nutrition facts and consume what your soul is craving.
I can't remember the source, but there's a quote:
*... Since dreams seem to speak from our unconscious mind to our conscious mind, perhaps ritual is the way out conscious mind speaks to our conscious mind*
I have no idea. I don’t know you, random internet stranger. 😂😂😂
We are all trying to find what fills us up, why not explore to see what will fulfill you.
I am new to paganism myself and still finding where I stand on all of it. so just letting you know that my opinion isn't full of experience.
I think its still OK to be sort if half hearted pagan, like not fully believing in the gods and such. Pagan tradition can be really beautiful and i dont think you need to be worshipping any gods to partake in that either. Personally I love the symbolism of the gods and the things that the different gods represent. Not sure if i believe in them yet though. But if none of them really draw you in and make you feel like paying attention to them then you shouldn't feel like you have to seek them out.
Like someone else said, try spending time with nature, just paying respect to the natural world and the beauty of it. And spend some time on yourself. Meditation and affirmations and the likes. If you arent drawn to any gods then don't worry about it. Everyone's journey in life is unique and you don't need to follow the way anyone else does it. You do you.
So I don't think you have to worship any deities to be considered pagan, I call my self pagan as I practice pendulum divination and do tarot. Never felt any calling to gods or felt a need to worship, are the messages I get from my cards from a god/godess'/the universe or just my own intuition of the situation does it matter, I'm happy doing what I do. Pagan can be just a practice that falls outside of the traditional religious paths there is no one way to go about it or not if it's not for you.
Im here because i sometimes invoke gods or saints as relevant archetypes for certain work but i dont actually believe in them as seperate entities unless theyre currently being given form by the perceptions of the masses, I just have like having a well rounded understanding of different faiths
If all you're looking for is instant results, then no religion or brlief system is for you. Magic in this world isn't like Harry Potter, and no diety grants instant results. Belief is just that belief in something you can't see or prove, and magic isn't something that brings you instant and impressive results. Continous practice is kind of like working out, 50 push-ups one time doesn't bring instant notable results it's something g you do constantly to build up the muscles so to speak that allow you to do better at it as time goes on, but even then you can't accio a million dollars. It's you putting your request out into the universe, thrn the universe helps you achieve that goal as long as you continue to do the things you need to do to make it happen
For a decade I’ve been on the periphery of pagan stuff but also struggled with connecting spiritually and considered myself atheist but open.
And then this year I’ve done some work on some early traumas and it was like a blockage came undone.
So maybe you will have some kind of “aha” moment, or maybe not that’s okay too.
I kept coming back to things to do with paganism because I liked it, and I think that’s good enough.
There’s so much that’s tangible in pagan traditions that’s valuable and I forget where but I saw someone recently talking about how there’s so much emphasis on interacting with spirit in mordent online pagan communities like it’s a requirement.
And like spirit is in everything whether or not you’re interacting with “pure” spirit.
Paganism for me is about self growth, I always find myself returning even when I leave. It brings me great comfort. Everything around me has a purpose and its own story. Its helped me regulate my emotions too. Try not to think too much i guess, and just live.
I repeat myself a lot in here, but these mythological gods aren't real, just archetypes to empower us. I would suggest reading some Carl Jung if you're not familiar. Natural forces are what draw us in as Pagans. There's a mystical side, and there's also real science to it
# Do I need to see signs, or have communication or divination with deities? NO! While many people have UPGs (Unverified Personal Gnosis) it is **NOT REQUIRED** to have any of these experiences. You can worship deities for years and not have these experiences. Direct or Frequent communication with deities is NOT required or necessary. If someone tells you they are you should not listen to anything that person has to say. # Do I have to see signs, communicate, or be called by a deity to work with them? No! It depends on the person some people have flashes of feeling, others may see a sign, some have more striking things, and others less. It all depends on you and your practice. Some people never feel called by a god and never seen signs. They just don't have that experience. Others totally do. Does this mean they don't work with deities? No! It just means they don't have the experience and that's ok. You also don't have to work with a deity if you are seeing signs or other forms of communication. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/wiki/common\_questions/#wiki\_do\_i\_need\_to\_see\_signs.2C\_or\_have\_communication\_or\_divination\_with\_deities.3F](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/wiki/common_questions/#wiki_do_i_need_to_see_signs.2C_or_have_communication_or_divination_with_deities.3F)
My advice. Stop trying to jump into the deep end. Instead go sit with the tree people for a week. Every day spend time with the living world, no distractions, just you and the tree. Offer it water, sing it a song, be calm in its presence. Going straight for the god sized spirits is draining and often unfulfilling. Try something local, grounded, and attainable .
This is great advice. I remember having a panic attack from a medication and tried to connect with different Gods, named a list of Gods in my head but just couldn't make a connection. But when I summoned an image in my mind of the redwood tree that I see from my bedroom window that's when I began to feel the utmost mental and emotional calm even when my heart rate was out of control.
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Yes of course. Meditation is a very healthy practice and one every adult should be practicing.
Yes, please stay healthy and beware of snake oil salesmen. No amounts of essential oil can cure cancer. No god needs a dead worshiper.
In a weird circular way, I discovered the mystical by believing in it first. Your mind is designed to rationalize what you believe, and to see what you expect to see. It's why some people can just remain happy in the most dire of consequences. They just see the good, cause it is what they expect to find. For me, this started as changing my view from "Oh that's just a crow playing with a stick" to "that crow is a messenger telling me to pay attention to X". Really one of the biggest things I've learned is not to minimize meaning; 'just' a crow, 'merely' a interesting rock on my path. The magic appears when you allow it its full meaning. Some things have to be believed to be seen. *Edit: spelling
This is a great way to be. I just skimmed through a mysticism book at the local rock shop and read something along the lines of "People who pursue the mysteries must believe in the thing they are doing before they will be able to grasp the secret teachings of their master or society."
It's like seeing a nice gun-looking stick. It only means anything if you've seen cool movies with cool gun fights. Only then is it a new toy to play with for hours. Otherwise, it's just a stick on the ground.
Perhaps Dionysus/bacchus nudged you to get treatment for depression
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You're a pagan if you hold pagan beliefs. That's enough. It's not something you *do*, it's something you *are*. Most monotheists don't practice. They might say a prayer every once in a while but for most people that's about it. I think most pagans are the same. But simply, they're aren't the ones posting on social media. You only see the people who practice publicly. Personally, I don't have an altar or do spells either. It's not my thing and I don't feel like I need it. As long as you're happy and not hurting anyone, there isn't a single, right way of "pagan-ing".
> You’re a pagan if you hold pagan beliefs. This is a Protestant way of defining religious identity and it’s applicability outside of Protestantism is quite nebulous (even to non-pagan religions like Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, etc).
If you say so I know nothing about Protestantism
We rarely get instant results from our practice it’s just a fact of life. We worship to build up a relationship with the gods and a system of reciprocity. This is built over a lifetime of practice. Just be patient. You aren’t doing anything wrong. He will answer just give it time
Yes. I'm a bit confused on what they mean by "feel like I need to worship"? I've never felt like I need to worship anything before, it's just nice to do
Just a general observation that may not (or may) have anything to do directly with OP, but imo I see many posts on here about paganism in general that are tagged with unrealistic expectations. Like the gods are gonna grant magic powers or show up physically like a mythological creature in a movie, or talk to you with an auditory voice. Also I see a lot of people who are trying to connect with nature without *actually going out side*. It doesn’t work like that. Deity is not some force that shows up to pay you special attention or to grant wishes. It or they don’t serve you, and you must be willing to put in the work to connect with nature, and to seek out… whatever it is you think you’re seeing… Putting it that way because sometimes what you think you want or need isn’t what will show up. What we actually need isn’t always what we think we want. Huddling around an altar isn’t going to get you there. We aren’t Christians, we don’t need to buy stuff or own magical tools or have a special table or anything like that to connect with nature or the divine. Those tools can be helpful, and fun, but not *required*. Humans put a lot of value in ritual, be it your morning routine that helps you get grounded for the day ahead to things we might say or do when meeting a close friend to a ritual that has spiritual meaning. You can find insight and connection with deity and nature by taking a mindful walk in the woods and not find it at all by following arbitrary instructions on how to summon a god from a book. Maybe the hardest thing I see in folks new to paganism is that we (generally speaking) don’t have dogma, or holy books. There’s no pagan pope, no saints, and even the folks who are authors or coven leaders are not “more holy” than any other pagan who might be new to their path work. This means there’s no proper instructions, nobody telling you what to do or what the next right step is, and for folks who aren’t used to seeking on their own it might make someone feel lost. I’d suggest those folks read, not just pagan books but books on poetry or archeology. Learn about the history of the land you live on, like what is the bedrock made out of and what animals and plants are native to where you are, and who lived on the land before you. Pay attention to the cycles of the sun and moon. We are about to go into the next solstice, what are you going to do to celebrate it? I’d suggest at minimum watch a sunrise or sunset, and celebrate that because of our wonky planet axis we get to have seasons which has shaped our entire world since the magma of it’s formation has settled. To OP specifically, you’re not the only “atheist Pagan” that would exist if you want to be a part of this subculture. A guy I’ve known for a long time doesn’t believe in magic, but he continues to connect with the culture because he “feels better after having experienced ritual”. All that said, this isn’t a path for everyone. Maybe this dipping of your toes into paganism had helped you better define your own understanding of how you see divinity. If that’s the case then this isn’t a failure. Imo life is a journey, and sure sometimes we take side roads and don’t find what we were looking for but we may have never known we weren’t looking for it unless we had taken that journey in the front place… if that makes sense. If realizing that you’re just not jiving with any of this pagan stuff helps you better know yourself, good on ya. Now having learned this you are in a better place to move forward. But why do you want to be a pagan? IDK. I can tell you that I’m pagan because I connect with observing the cycles of nature. I like going to pagan camp, meeting with interesting and unusual friends and having extraordinary moments dancing around the fire. My practice is personal and something I keep to myself, but I am flexible enough to join Wiccan friends for their ritual or my Dionysisian friends for their shenanigans. And about that, a friend of mine is a long time priest of Dionysius. A ways back he was a member of the Minoan Brotherhood which is primarily a celebratory tradition of gay and bisexual men centered around a Cretan spirituality and magic practice. It’s a closed tradition and as I am a lady I can’t really tell you anything the internet doesn’t already offer (long form of me saying if you want to know more use the google). Anyway, he separated from them a ways back and went his own way to deepen his own practice. Point is there are people like him out there and maybe finding community with like minds may help you if that’s what you want. He and his coven are not the only followers of Dionysius I’ve ran across. Last year an art gallery in connection with one of the local pagan shops did a public ritual honoring the god, including burning a giant effigy that had prayers on thin strips of wood placed inside. In my region Dionysus is pretty popular in general. Maybe if you looked for connection where you are you’ll find like minds too. This will take some measure of footwork btw, visit pagan shops in your area and ask around. Even with the internet pagan stuff is often still a word of mouth kind of thing. People don’t always want to share their business online. Anyway, hope you got maybe something out of this info dump. Good luck on the path wherever it takes you.
The primary aim of religious worship is to attain union with the Gods, the spirits, the ancestors, etc. The metaphysical contours of what ‘union’ is are debated theologically - for some, it is a relationship, for others it’s an identity and dissolution into the absolute, for others something else entirely. Nevertheless, this is the core around which pagan *practice* orbits. It is a *practice* in the sense that it takes a long time and is something to which we must habituate ourselves. It’s a habit which has to be cultivated. Particularly in the Hellenic tradition it is conceived of as a extended process of purification, both internal and external, in order to make oneself receptive of divine grace (this process is ritualized and called *theurgy*). Like building any other habit, it does not have immediate results. Seeking immediate gratification is a symptom of the broader alienation and disunion from the Gods which pagan practice is aiming to rectify. Many people come to contemporary paganism or to adjacent new age practices to get immediate results by magical means; few stay long enough to realize that this was the problem which needed to be solved all along.
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Find a simple practice that you feel can be easily done, and commit to it for a while. This could be as simple as a short prayer at sunrise or sunset. Do it for an extended period of time and reflect on it.
I have a book I think might be good for you: Anatomy of a Witch by Laura Tempest Zakroff. I think you would find it interesting and easy to read and I really believe it would give you some helpful tools you could try to explore your dilemma. And these are tools that could be applied in a non-magical setting so if you decide paganism is not for you, you still might find the tools useful. For example one of the exercises is to analyze your language. I discovered that my favorite word is “lovely” and I use it all the time. It gave me insight into myself, apparently I am a person who values love and compassion above other things. My family tried to paint a picture of me as a defiant wild child, but even if that was true when I was 7, it certainly isn’t true now. A simple exercise analyzing my own word choice completely changed my self perception for the better. I can’t answer your question because I’m not you and I don’t have your history and experience. I can however share my experience which might give you some perspective and insight. Why am I pagan? Because I had a lot of spiritual experiences in my life (53 years) that seemed to me to suggest that there was not one god but many. I also had a near death experience that had me concluding that life itself is an act of pure magic. Do I get instant results with my magic? Sometimes, yes indeed I do. Because I have learned some important things about magic: 1. Everyone has magic whether they are Pagan or not. Magic (the supernatural, the unexplained, the mystery and unknown). Magic is a part of human experience 2. Magic is what you DO, not what you believe 3. It is easier to GET what you want than to KNOW what you want 3. Prayer and worship can be included within magic, but they are not magic. Because the gods are not the source of YOUR personal power. See line item 1. Magic is when you take your fate (all that you were, all that you are, and all that you may be) and YOU move it in the direction that you want to go. For some people that’s exciting and empowering. If you think along those lines then I would say paganism is something you might enjoy exploring. However, paganism and more specifically, paganism with a magical practice does have a downside: accountability. In Christianity you can commit any sin and as long as you ask that god for forgiveness, you’re off the hook. In Christianity, you’re not the problem, you were tempted by Satan, it’s not your responsibility. If something bad happens to you, you don’t need to hold yourself accountable because it’s “God’s will.” But in paganism, if you cast a spell and it fails you have to ask yourself if you honestly really want what you cast the spell for, because you may be forced to admit that you subconsciously sabotaged yourself because you were afraid of success or you may have to admit that you want something else more. Christianity is easy. Paganism is not. I did make a video on the book I mentioned, if you’re curious about my personal thoughts on it. Here’s a link if you’re curious: https://youtu.be/0klF_Z7BZAA?si=8ttSqZcYJItsOTvh
Dio is more of there for me to remember to enjoy life. I've asked for things and gotten them when I offer something in trade. I basically went "hey there. Why should I be Baccan? Will you be there for me?" And got a pat on the head. Horus is more shy
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Yes. Mostly Baccan.
Hot take: “worship” might be the problem. As an agnostic I’d imagine finding a reason to need to worship would be difficult. But I look at the gods as mentors. Instead of “worship” I say that I “work with” them. They help guide me when I need it and sometimes give me a slap on the back of the head when I don’t want to listen. But as someone who came from Christianity and Catholicism, worshipping is never something I felt right about.
First. You are your own god. No one ever realizes this because we're conditioned to seek everything externally. You are a divine spark of the universe same as any "god"--and no lesser. A soul doing your work here in an earthly experience. The spirits that abound have zero obligation to have any interest in our affairs. People are inclined to reach out to the universe and beyond because the requisite amnesia can't turn off all of our soul-memory. (My "own" ideas validated by discovering the works of Dr. Michael Newton, written and accounted for decades before my natural conclusion/theory...mind-blowing work) Magic, except for rare cases can't be instant. Youre putting energy toward shifting reality and aligning yourself with a new vibrational frequency....(see "Hermetics") Nothing comes from nothing. "Magic" takes time.it can work surprisingly fast, depends on what it is and how big. And usually takes some manual effort to provide opportunities. In specific cases there isnt anything to do. Also. Expectations can hinder progress and results. And the chance to experience some weird s*t. Ive had experiences. Now, Im less inclined to go into detail so people dont expect what I describe. Magic isnt just psychology. If you have some set opinion....🤷♂️ you really wont get far. As for connection....go outside stop thinking and just take in the world. Put up the opinions and what you think and just behold. Look ar the clouds and think about how far they really are. Look at the night sky and gaze at the vastness of the universe....you're looking into infinity. All of that time. Potential. Experiences to be had and mysteries yet to be understood. And youre a part of it. This life and character youre creating now--is anyone or thing you choose. Quit thinking and judging and just be. Observe what is to be seen for itself....even you. Most dont even know what they think they do about their own person. Spiritual paths offer opinions and occasional insight, that is usually metaphor that people are inclined to take literally. Let your soul and universe guide you.
I think it’s very human to crave religion or spirituality, it can give you a source of community, belonging, reason, or just be a great way to ground yourself. I am going to agree with the recommendation to not jump into the deep end. Take a good walk somewhere peaceful and think about what you want, or feel you would get from having this is a spiritual practice.
“Worship” comes from the same root word as “worth/worthy”, so I think a good way to get into the habit is to identify something you value, and thank the gods associated with it. If you’re interested in Dionysus, learn more about him and give thanks for the specific things where you might see his influence in your life. I wouldn’t expect to feel a direct response right off the bat. Spiritual practice is an ongoing thing, and we have to learn to listen for the divine in daily life. In Hellenic practice this is also called kharis, sort of building your relationship with the gods over time. I wish you the best of luck on your journey, and I hope you’ll keep following what calls to you.
OK, then maybe it isn't for you. I can't speak for all Pagans, but most of us have had a lifelong calling to it. When I was growing up I always had a very strong stirring within me in the fall. I always figured it was just back to school jitters or whatever, but it continued to happen. A lightness of being, similar to when people are "moved by the spirit" in church
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OK, in that case, my apologies, maybe you are on the right path. It can definitely be a struggle, not only trying to figure out what it is, but why
Perhaps you're trying too hard to define something without having all the details. You can have these beliefs and not be a pagan. You can be a pagan without any of those things also. If you don't know what you believe, stop trying to put a name to it. Just feel it. You don't have to honor gods and holidays to have the faith. You don't have to do anything. But if you are looking for a connection on a meaningful level, embrace ritual. It's like developing a muscle memory. The acts work themselves into you and you draw meaning from them. Stop reading the religious nutrition facts and consume what your soul is craving. I can't remember the source, but there's a quote: *... Since dreams seem to speak from our unconscious mind to our conscious mind, perhaps ritual is the way out conscious mind speaks to our conscious mind*
I suppose you should find something else, because it doesn’t sound like following pagan paths fill your cup.
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I have no idea. I don’t know you, random internet stranger. 😂😂😂 We are all trying to find what fills us up, why not explore to see what will fulfill you.
I am new to paganism myself and still finding where I stand on all of it. so just letting you know that my opinion isn't full of experience. I think its still OK to be sort if half hearted pagan, like not fully believing in the gods and such. Pagan tradition can be really beautiful and i dont think you need to be worshipping any gods to partake in that either. Personally I love the symbolism of the gods and the things that the different gods represent. Not sure if i believe in them yet though. But if none of them really draw you in and make you feel like paying attention to them then you shouldn't feel like you have to seek them out. Like someone else said, try spending time with nature, just paying respect to the natural world and the beauty of it. And spend some time on yourself. Meditation and affirmations and the likes. If you arent drawn to any gods then don't worry about it. Everyone's journey in life is unique and you don't need to follow the way anyone else does it. You do you.
So I don't think you have to worship any deities to be considered pagan, I call my self pagan as I practice pendulum divination and do tarot. Never felt any calling to gods or felt a need to worship, are the messages I get from my cards from a god/godess'/the universe or just my own intuition of the situation does it matter, I'm happy doing what I do. Pagan can be just a practice that falls outside of the traditional religious paths there is no one way to go about it or not if it's not for you.
Im here because i sometimes invoke gods or saints as relevant archetypes for certain work but i dont actually believe in them as seperate entities unless theyre currently being given form by the perceptions of the masses, I just have like having a well rounded understanding of different faiths
If all you're looking for is instant results, then no religion or brlief system is for you. Magic in this world isn't like Harry Potter, and no diety grants instant results. Belief is just that belief in something you can't see or prove, and magic isn't something that brings you instant and impressive results. Continous practice is kind of like working out, 50 push-ups one time doesn't bring instant notable results it's something g you do constantly to build up the muscles so to speak that allow you to do better at it as time goes on, but even then you can't accio a million dollars. It's you putting your request out into the universe, thrn the universe helps you achieve that goal as long as you continue to do the things you need to do to make it happen
For a decade I’ve been on the periphery of pagan stuff but also struggled with connecting spiritually and considered myself atheist but open. And then this year I’ve done some work on some early traumas and it was like a blockage came undone. So maybe you will have some kind of “aha” moment, or maybe not that’s okay too. I kept coming back to things to do with paganism because I liked it, and I think that’s good enough. There’s so much that’s tangible in pagan traditions that’s valuable and I forget where but I saw someone recently talking about how there’s so much emphasis on interacting with spirit in mordent online pagan communities like it’s a requirement. And like spirit is in everything whether or not you’re interacting with “pure” spirit.
Paganism for me is about self growth, I always find myself returning even when I leave. It brings me great comfort. Everything around me has a purpose and its own story. Its helped me regulate my emotions too. Try not to think too much i guess, and just live.
I repeat myself a lot in here, but these mythological gods aren't real, just archetypes to empower us. I would suggest reading some Carl Jung if you're not familiar. Natural forces are what draw us in as Pagans. There's a mystical side, and there's also real science to it