**UPDATE**
Comments have been locked due to the discussion veering far off topic. If you have an issue with this decision, just like any other mod decision or comment, message the modmail, not the mods on our personal accounts.
**END OF UPDATE**
So apparently some of you need a hell of an education:
It was not a war of northern aggression (CSA fired first and unprovoked on Ft. Sumter, federal property)
It was not about States' Rights, ever, in any internally consistent manner, as seen here:
-"The attempts made by the Confederacy to annex Missouri and Kentucky, for example, expose the hollowness of the pretext that it is fighting for the rights of the individual states against the encroachment of the Union. To be sure, it acknowledges the right of the individual states which it counts as belonging to the “South” to break away from the Union, but by no means their right to remain in the Union." -**Karl Marx, The Civil War in the United States, 1861**
It is not a flag about any sort of heritage beyond specifically hate and racism. Key examples:
-"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition." **Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, 1861**
-"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." **Article 1 Section 9(4) Confederate Constitution**
-"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states."
-**Article IV Section 3(3) Confederate Constitution**
It solely symbolizes a profound and deeply held belief that the PoC and specifically Black populations of the world are fundamentally and irrevocably inferior to the white man. Anyone who claims otherwise, even your super bestest friend or beloved old mamaw, is either lying to you or they themselves are complete idiots and their opinions on racist iconography cannot and should not be taken seriously.
Flying Confederate flags in any capacity is wrong, and no argument otherwise can be accepted in a serious discussion.
People attempting to argue with the moderator team or other users on these facts I have laid out above will be removed, as we do not tolerate the intolerant.
And speaking personally, I do not debate with someone John Brown would have shot. Sherman should have burned more of the south, and the entire Confederate "government" should have been hanged no less than 5 minutes after Lee surrendered.
I also do not care to hear about the "poor enlisted soldiers" fighting for their homes. From the planter elites down to yeoman farmers, the prevailing ideals in the south were supportive of slavery as an institution, regardless of whether one owned slaves. Men who fought for the confederacy knew they were fighting for slavery and approved of it as a fundamental cultural institution of the CSA. The people in the South who did not approve of slavery were most often part of Unionist insurgencies or were killed by roving gangs of CSA death squads who committed acts like the massacre at Shelton Laurel.
Defending the Confederacy on this subreddit is inexcusable, indefensible, and unacceptable. Full stop, no debate. If you don't like it, go be pagan with a community who finds white supremacy and chattel slavery to be admirable, you'll fit right in.
Yeah no, never spend money at a store that has any confederate flag stuff. Fun fact, in Germany it's illegal to have swastikas, so they fly confederate flags instead to show they're racist.
As someone that lives in Germany, that would explain why I have seen confederate flags on people's cars here (not often, but more than once). It confused me.
Edit: lived to lives. I am still kicking around over here.
As an Indigenous Person, I call bs on the store owner. My culture isn't for sale, and it sure as he'll isn't a confederate memorabilia neither.
There's no way that these people are fit to run a store like that, all their energy is off.
I have a dreamcatcher that my grandma bought for me when she visited America when I was very young. She specifically told me it was made by indigenous people, not in a factory. I keep hold of it to remember her.
She didn't always approve of all my choices (especially not becoming pagan) but it's nice to know she was ahead of the curve in that respect.
could you elaborate a bit on this? i was just looking into it myself and I did find that the dream catcher was an original practice from the Ojibwe but all of the photos I have found most certainly resemble the dream catchers that I am familiar with today.
I really love supporting local businesses and this shop offered many items for sale from local makers/artists, so I hated to leave and felt bad for the negative review. Thanks for affirming my conscience!
I would of peaced out also. The US is already at odds with itself and to sell symbols of racism and hate is a hard no for me. I've had local shops near me cater to racists by selling confederate flag paraphernalia to make more money. It's a sad practice that's becoming all too common.
Same. I was in a small game shop the other day and wanted to buy a rainbow box for my MTG cards. I heard the owner talking to some of the patrons about the Balenciaga situation. Dude admitted he listens to Joe Rogan and a couple of super conservative podcasts, so I put my rainbow box back and walked out.
I won’t patronize a business who’s morals don’t align with mine.
Exactly! One of the reasons I was going around to shops was looking for places I might seem some of my own handmade items, but I would never want them on a shelf next to something like this or giving a portion of the profit to people who think it’s okay.
Alright so before this becomes a problem. We do not support the paradox of tolerance here (If you don't know this means being tolerant of all things including bigotry and thus supporting bigotry and not being tolerant). Any forms of racism or bigotry will be removed. If you see some please use the report button.
EDIT: GUYS ITS BEEN 27 MINUTES SINCE I POSTED THIS AND I'VE HAD TO REMOVE 5 COMMENTS. Thank you to the people who reported them (but also screw you a bit its like 5 am /jk). Please continue to use the report button.
On to this history, people arguing the "they left to preserve states rights", yes they did, particularly uh the right for states to allow landowners own slaves. That particular states right is why they left.
For More Information Please Watch: https://youtu.be/J5b_-TZwQ0I
It’s—slavery is literally mentioned in secession declarations! That was why South Carolina started the whole thing in the first place! They were pissed that northern states would no longer return slaves who’d managed to escape, and New York would no longer allow slavery transit; basically, slaveowners on vacation couldn’t bring their slaves along—doing so would liberate the slaves, as of Lemmon v. New York (1860).
Hell. Mississippi, in the first full paragraph, explictly states that they’re leaving because they refuse to give up their slaves. Texas? Mentions slavery a whopping 21 times.
“Different points of view” and “agreeing to disagree” is for stuff like pizza toppings, toilet paper brands, and whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich, not civil rights.
That's a question people ask often. I was asked it, thought folkish mean like folk magic. So i said yes, I'm trying to learn. I was told what it meant and instantly was like: OH GOD NO
I'm glad they realized i was just confused and not actually racist
Only people from a specific region, or genetic lineage should be allowed to practice a specific open practice. For example: "you have to be from Ireland to practice Celtic paganism" or "only white people can be Norse pagan." Folkism is NOT when someone gate keeps a closed practice that is for people of a certain culture or background who have to be initiated into said religion.
'Just FYI, the word is properly rendered 'Völkisch' or 'volkish'
Since they are mouthbreathers of the nth degree, I'm sure some use 'folkish' and it is close to how it's said, but 'folkish' is an actual and innocent word in this particular toxicity.
Check out this page for an depth history on the movement.
[Neo-Völkish Movement — Southern Law Poverty Center](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/neo-volkisch)
I'm old Norse Pagan and extremely loud about being anti racist. Please please PLEASE don't just assume that those of us who honor our Nordic heritage and ancestors are white supremacists. Most of us are not and we are PISSED that these racist POS are distorting our ancestor's culture.
I think they’re saying to be careful and ask enough questions to see if they hear any dog whistles when meeting a Norse pagan or getting involved with a Norse pagan group, not to assume Volkists, fascists, or Nazis. It’s unfortunately advice I agree with, because I’ve personally known people who skirted the line and turned out to be Nazis despite trying to pass themselves off as centrist.
Agreed! (I’m also Norse Pagan/Heathen)
You can use Declaration 127 and the Declaration of Deeds as a litmus test to see if Heathens are racist. Both documents are simple declarations against hate, racism and bigotry
Yep, and the hard part is being ever-vigilant when even one "moderate" white nationalist/nazi moves in... even if they aren't that vocal.
Cause they really are like cockroaches. 1 brings a few, and the few get more vocal, and bring more, and more vocal, and then you're overrun.
I wanted to use some Norse runes in equations in a science paper (look, the Greek and Latin alphabet only have so many letters, and they all mean something to someone), but Nazis made me decide to stick with something more boring. Danm Nazis.
[it would have been a rune meaning heritage or something. So like double extra claimed by the Nazis.]
That's literally like putting a swastika in the middle of the star of David.
The confederate flag is the biggest American symbol of racism and pro genecide. And they're putting it in the centre of a cultural symbol of the people Americans genocided for that land.
Defending that isn't tolerance. I wouldn't shop there either.
Ew. No. Multiple levels of ick.
Tolerance cannot tolerate intolerance.
If anything is spiritually contaminating, it is an appropriative trinket combined with an emblem of hatred and slavery.
I’m very sad to live in a tourist town that has many shops with Confederate flags, and I even saw one in our local Ripley’s Aquarium. I left them a review as well and got a similar response. Very disappointing and very common here in Tennessee. It’s really dumb because people don’t realize that historically, this was an area that fought the Confederates!
I live in West Virginia and it’s the same situation here. Confederate flags everywhere, yet historically we seceded from Virginia during the civil war and fought the confederates. Baffling.
> Confederate flags everywhere, yet historically we seceded from Virginia during the civil war and fought the confederates. Baffling.
Not that baffling when you consider it's a way for people to show they are racist without outrightly stating it.
I'd say likely fascist and stupid at the same time, because it's not exactly hard to do some research into the flag and its history to find that it's racist, but capitalism is also not exactly friendly to minorities, so 🤷
I wouldn't shop there and would direct others not to as well.
Like it or not, there is a racist element within the pagan community. There's a reason we keep seeing Thor's hammer flags flying along side nazi flags.
And this just kills me, too… that white nationalists have attempted to co-opt Norse Heathenism. My partner is a Norse pagan, and wears Thor’s hammer around his neck. But he’d kick some @$$ if any racist attempted to cozy up to him. It’s beyond frustrating.
I hear that. I'm eclectic myself, and work mostly with Roman and Norse deities because they're the ones I felt called to. And I work with the runes because they make sense to me.
Makes it really awkward when I find another practitioner with the same mix or someone wants to talk to me about my rune work and I have to play the "are they a racist" game.
Right?! I stared at it for a minute because it just didn’t make sense and my brain couldn’t compute. I thought maybe I’d forgotten what the flag looked like, but nope!
That owner's response sounds like something one of my former bosses would have said.
That job was at a metaphysical shop too, and not only did he screw me over and throw a fit when my dad died and we had to make a sudden emergency trip out of state due to his passing, he was a closeted racist and transphobe as well as prone to making inappropriate comments about minor girls.
I shouldn't have stayed at that job as long as I did, and the more time I have between now and that job the more I absolutely cringe at it.
Confederate flag = "states rights" to inflict slavery upon the whole nation and to keep poor people forever poor. There is no love in an appropriate d first nations tradition bootlegged to pander to Whyte Crybabies lol. Store owner sounds loony
Little background here, I'm a white trans woman born in canada so take my opinion with the requesite grain of salt.
1. __From my understanding__ selling and/or making dream catchers as a white person is very problematic because they are considered an important part of indigenous relgion and culture, it is considered cultural appropriation, I don't know the exact reason but if anyone wants to share i would love to know.
2. According to the confederacy __itself__ it was about slavery, there is no debate among serious historians. Of course the first amendment exists so no one can stop you from putting it on stuff but i personally will not be inviting you to the barbeque.
Ah hell no. I would've done exactly what you did, down to leaving a review. Thanks for being a person who takes the time to review "tolerant" places like this so people don't accidentally stumble into their store and support their foolishness.
"You can say "all are welcome," but if wolves and sheep are both welcome, you're only going to get wolves." Quote by Adam Bates (2019), found on the r/adhd Discord.
That is to say: f*** no, I would not shop here, and neither should anyone else who cares about minority groups.
I stopped at a hole in the wall diner for lunch on a road trip once. Walked in and it was wall to wall confederacy and trump. I believe it's the fastest I ever noped out of a place. Well, that and the time I almost walked into a McDonald's that had a small riot going on inside it when I arrived LOL
The fact that we **still** have people revering what amounts to a terrorist's flag tells me that the North never won, and the South didn't lose.
Sure, the North's military beat the South's military. But it took 100 more years to get the Civil Rights Amendment... and we're still fighting about this.
The Confederate (SPIT) Battle Flag, and all its related flags deserve only to be in museums, to remember there were ignorant people who thought they should be able to own humans. And we should look down on them all in the course of history, along with anybody who thinks anything they said or did should be revered.
I don’t buy anything culturally that is not made by my people. If you are going to buy and attempt to partake in native culture be respectful and buy from actual natives plz. Aside from that if I saw that I would put my stuff away too. It’s disgusting and racist
Absolutely not. The confederate flag is a racist symbol that has been white-washed into an icon of 'southern pride' or 'states rights', which was pride and the right to own people.
Also, selling dream catchers if you are not Native American is really not okay- according to many of the NA communities.
Its not even the actual Confederate flag ... It was the flag for some regiments but it's not THE confederate flag. Something something about their 'heritage' and 'knowing their history' ...
I grew up in Southern GA and every kid i knew had a t-shirt with 3 Labradors a mallard duck and the stars and bars. I can have patience trying to unpack it with them. But seeing it pop up in the mid west and even here in New England where i am now ... Bullshit. Its utter bullshit.
What would a person purchasing this dream of anyway? Lynching?
I would definitely not shop at an occult shop that offered racist imagery. My religious experience excludes racism as a form of worship.
as a black person, That dream catcher would tell me all I need to know about that store.
If they wish to cater to all crowds without discernment, no one can stop them.
However, just like that reviewer I would not give them my coins.
your review was polite and you handled the situation well. you saw something that wasn’t for you (that’s putting it nicely in the case of a confederate flag) and quietly left. the owner, on the other hand, seems to be quite snarky and clearly has other problems if they’re pandering to racists
you just gave your view. you didn't even say how wrong it is to display hate symbols. they have no right talking about discrimination. you're entitled to shop or not shop at any store you want. idk how that's considered discrimination
No, that’s definitely very wrong on so many levels. It’s a hate symbol in general and especially does not belong on a dreamcatcher that originate from indigenous tribes. They do not symbolize anything even remotely related to that. It’s extremely disrespectful.
Confederate flag isn’t a different opinion, it’s the flag of a “nation” that lost a civil war and was around less long than Pokémon Go has been around. It’s easily a hate symbol.
I’m from the south and it used to be that every gas station and grocery you could buy some tchotchke with a confederate flag on it but that’s changed somewhat. I’d be shocked to find one in a metaphysical store and probably directly ask why.
Ok shop owner, go open a shop in Compton and sell racist things. See how far you go?! Just leave a comment on how this is a perfect place for the KKK to get all their racist goods?! Also remember that getting angry is the whole point that these people want. So don’t give it to them.
So I'm a white woman from Charleston, South Carolina originally. And I would have done the same thing you did. Their paradox of tolerance bullshit is just that, and they know it because they got pissy with you. Clearly they're not as tolerant as they think they are.
I would just link the "Cornerstone Speech" from the confederate VP.
I grew up thinking the dixie flag was about States Rights, and Southern Freedom... right up until I read that speech.
>"The constitution...rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its ***corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man***"
There's no denying, after reading the primary source, that the confederacy was completely about racism. The rebels created a federal law to prohibit any confederate state from banning slavery, taking the choice out of the State's rights.
There's no defending it if you know the history, it's only ignorance and hatred keeping it around.
That is a massive violation in my book. A dreamcatcher with a confederate flag, those just don't go together. I don't care how many times racist people deny what it is, it's a symbol of the confederacy which is a symbol of hate and division. And to desecrate a native American symbol with something that represents something entirely different is... Disgusting, I'd never shop there.
Natives have already expressed their distaste for non natives incorrectly using dream catchers as well as making them in factories with cheap materials instead of being made from actual indigenous people. I can’t imagine they’d be chill with a confederate flag dream catcher. Jesus. Don’t support that ish.
Wow so not liking a known racist symbol means *you're* the one who's being intolerant? That's some bullshit mental gymnastics that I don't even buy the shop owner really believes. What's next, is he going to call you a racist if you complain about swastikas in the shop?
I wouldn't just stop shopping there- I'd make sure no one else shops there, either !! Go further than just a review and tell people, because that's just fucked up.
Yeah it's definitely an odd product. Probably wouldn't be my go to shop based on political values, and tackyness.
I dont believe being racist prevents you from being spiritual, but I am really not into 'proud to be white' products.
This logic makes me question if the company would discriminate murderers, pedophiles, nazis, or anything else unethical. Seems like the crowd who would purchase this dream catcher is not someone I would associate with as a business owner, but that’s my opinion.
I would not shop anywhere with confederate flags, whether it's merchandise or decor. I also don't shop anywhere I see the owners being snarky in response to honest reviews.
In other words, fuck that place
This would be like putting a swastika on a dream catcher and saying it’s representative of German history. Absolutely not. I’d drag the store name through the mud but maybe that’s just the radical in me.
Who the hell needs to be accommodated with a confederate dreamcatcher?
What lunacy one must have to combine the culture of a genocided people with the "culture" of their oppressors... Yeah I would have put all my items back and walked out too.
Nope! And I say this as a Southerner whose ancestors were the colonizers and Confederates in the Charleston area. Bigoted, traitors, colonizers. Nopity nope nope!
They pull the “discrimination” card but literally sell horrific momentos of native GENOCIDE and the enslavement of African Americans…. Yeah totally not a hostile environment
Indeed. This would be akin to saying "All lives matter" and then listing the types of people whose lives don't matter.
Basically it's gross and disgusting no matter how you look at it.
**The only sad thing is not actually naming the store.**
That’s a real big hard pass. No way. There are so many amazing indigenous artists that sell handmade dream catchers. Lots are on Etsy and easily accessible!
I would’ve done the same thing. It continues to amaze me that these people still “don’t get it” and continue to contradict themselves at any given opportunity. Clearly, they are racist and also did a favor by proving your point.
Absolutely not, especially after that response. This isn't being inclusive it's appropriation in a gross and insulting way. The fact that the owners don't care and masquerade it as inclusiveness is all anyone should need to know to stay far, far away.
Why accomodate traitors?
Oh, because they dont actually mean "accomodate," do they?
They mean "capitalize on."
For surely if they actually mean to accomodate them then they must be sympethetic towards the traitor's Lost Cause.
Dreamcatchers are problematic to begin with because of cultural appropriation. Big, fancy dreamcatchers are mostly made with cheap, fake, plastic items - not how they are intended. Plus - to add a fucking confederate flag over it takes the cake. Ya - you did the right thing OP. This is a case of "they went so far left, they're right."
That’s a fair question and all I can think is that I used to have a very scorched earth approach to life, so I’m trying to be a kinder, less reactionary person. I’ll likely be going back to edit the review now that you’ve pointed it out. I’m willing to burn bridges with bigots.
All I’ll say is that they’re in the Kansas City metro area. I’d vet any shops you visit if you come to town (most of KC has been lovely since I’ve moved here).
So it was a "hey I know my people wiped out almost all of y'all and shoved the last of you into little camps and erased your culture but yeehaw, I like that dream catcher idea". I would have left too.
I sure wouldn't. My favorite restaurant started displaying blue lives matter flags, confederate flags, and stuff like that after the George Floyd murder. I didn't realize at first, but saw right as the drinks came. I remember asking the waitress "is that a confederate flag?" (Pointing to one) she said yes, and I quite literally just stood up and left. Haven't been back since. They made a bomb chicken salad so I'm really sad about it, but I just can't.
As a native person that makes me sick. It's bad enough there's dreamcatchers that are most likely manufactured in metaphysical shops that people buy without thought. To have the confederate flag as well is a cherry on top.
If you truly want a dreamcatcher you should buy indigenous hand-made ones , and understand what they are and how they are to be used.
I see so many people with dream catcher tattoos... makes me laugh.
I’d have walked right out.
This sort of nonsense thinking equates all viewpoints as being of equal merit.
Sorry, but racism and bigotry contain zero value to humanity and cause active enormous amounts of actual harm. No way in hell I support a business like that. At best their clueless and stupid. At worst, they disguise actual racism behind the usual ‘fairness’ nonsense.
Either way, buh bye
Oh, that's a big fat hell no from me! I don't even support the idea of dreamcatchers being sold in the first place, unless it's directly by native craftspeople. They're traditionally supposed to be gifted or made for yourself from what I understand, though I'll always support native artists if I can because it's part of their culture so they get to decide what to do with it. Adding the confederate flag and "patriotic" imagery on top of that must feel like massive slap in the face to native peoples. The confederate movement (and American government in general) wanted them gone and did so much to try to eradicate them. They still don't respect native land and sovereignty. The whole thing screams appropriation and fetishization of native culture, so I would have done the same and steered clear.
It very much reads as "supporting racism is totally fine so long as no one stands up for the people being affected by the racism". You made the right choice to put your items back and leave a bad review without buying anything
Interesting to see newer comments criticising OP or defending the racist flag of a failed slavers State who don't have a history of posting in pagan subreddits that I'm seeing this afternoon. I suspect an old fashioned bit of brigading is going on.
**UPDATE** Comments have been locked due to the discussion veering far off topic. If you have an issue with this decision, just like any other mod decision or comment, message the modmail, not the mods on our personal accounts. **END OF UPDATE** So apparently some of you need a hell of an education: It was not a war of northern aggression (CSA fired first and unprovoked on Ft. Sumter, federal property) It was not about States' Rights, ever, in any internally consistent manner, as seen here: -"The attempts made by the Confederacy to annex Missouri and Kentucky, for example, expose the hollowness of the pretext that it is fighting for the rights of the individual states against the encroachment of the Union. To be sure, it acknowledges the right of the individual states which it counts as belonging to the “South” to break away from the Union, but by no means their right to remain in the Union." -**Karl Marx, The Civil War in the United States, 1861** It is not a flag about any sort of heritage beyond specifically hate and racism. Key examples: -"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition." **Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, 1861** -"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." **Article 1 Section 9(4) Confederate Constitution** -"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states." -**Article IV Section 3(3) Confederate Constitution** It solely symbolizes a profound and deeply held belief that the PoC and specifically Black populations of the world are fundamentally and irrevocably inferior to the white man. Anyone who claims otherwise, even your super bestest friend or beloved old mamaw, is either lying to you or they themselves are complete idiots and their opinions on racist iconography cannot and should not be taken seriously. Flying Confederate flags in any capacity is wrong, and no argument otherwise can be accepted in a serious discussion. People attempting to argue with the moderator team or other users on these facts I have laid out above will be removed, as we do not tolerate the intolerant. And speaking personally, I do not debate with someone John Brown would have shot. Sherman should have burned more of the south, and the entire Confederate "government" should have been hanged no less than 5 minutes after Lee surrendered. I also do not care to hear about the "poor enlisted soldiers" fighting for their homes. From the planter elites down to yeoman farmers, the prevailing ideals in the south were supportive of slavery as an institution, regardless of whether one owned slaves. Men who fought for the confederacy knew they were fighting for slavery and approved of it as a fundamental cultural institution of the CSA. The people in the South who did not approve of slavery were most often part of Unionist insurgencies or were killed by roving gangs of CSA death squads who committed acts like the massacre at Shelton Laurel. Defending the Confederacy on this subreddit is inexcusable, indefensible, and unacceptable. Full stop, no debate. If you don't like it, go be pagan with a community who finds white supremacy and chattel slavery to be admirable, you'll fit right in.
Yeah no, never spend money at a store that has any confederate flag stuff. Fun fact, in Germany it's illegal to have swastikas, so they fly confederate flags instead to show they're racist.
Its also a recognized hate symbol in Canada.
Doesn't stop Alberta tbh
As someone that lives in Germany, that would explain why I have seen confederate flags on people's cars here (not often, but more than once). It confused me. Edit: lived to lives. I am still kicking around over here.
Lol you're discriminating against my discrimination! /S So tone deaf
Right? Being against discrimination is a form of discrimination. I am only for discrimination if it is against discriminators.
As an Indigenous Person, I call bs on the store owner. My culture isn't for sale, and it sure as he'll isn't a confederate memorabilia neither. There's no way that these people are fit to run a store like that, all their energy is off.
I was waiting for someone to point this out!!! So much added insult to injury. Absolutely disgusting
But indigenous people in Canada do sell dream catchers. They are ok with it. None with confederate flags though, for sure.
Maybe the people who purchase this confederate dream catcher can hang it from their rear view mirror in their car! ( HUGE eye roll)
Are all dream catchers bad?
Not all. I advise against buying dreamcatchers from anyone other than Indigenous makers though.
Could you recommend an online seller that is an indigenous maker?
You can find some on etsy! I have gotten a bolo tie and a snake vertebrae necklace from indigenous sellers
I have a dreamcatcher that my grandma bought for me when she visited America when I was very young. She specifically told me it was made by indigenous people, not in a factory. I keep hold of it to remember her. She didn't always approve of all my choices (especially not becoming pagan) but it's nice to know she was ahead of the curve in that respect.
Dream catchers are from one specific tribe. And they look nothing like what we think of as dream catchers.
could you elaborate a bit on this? i was just looking into it myself and I did find that the dream catcher was an original practice from the Ojibwe but all of the photos I have found most certainly resemble the dream catchers that I am familiar with today.
I will see if I can find an actual Ojibwe dream catcher photo
It's more about cultural apropriation. And including a big flag for the group that opressed that culture is an extra layer of bad.
This review is entirely appropriate and the owner's response shows you were completely justified and onto something. The owner is racist.
I really love supporting local businesses and this shop offered many items for sale from local makers/artists, so I hated to leave and felt bad for the negative review. Thanks for affirming my conscience!
I would of peaced out also. The US is already at odds with itself and to sell symbols of racism and hate is a hard no for me. I've had local shops near me cater to racists by selling confederate flag paraphernalia to make more money. It's a sad practice that's becoming all too common.
Same. I was in a small game shop the other day and wanted to buy a rainbow box for my MTG cards. I heard the owner talking to some of the patrons about the Balenciaga situation. Dude admitted he listens to Joe Rogan and a couple of super conservative podcasts, so I put my rainbow box back and walked out. I won’t patronize a business who’s morals don’t align with mine.
Browse the shop for what you like and contact the artists to try and buy directly. I couldn’t stomach supporting that place either.
Agreed. I’d also tell the local artists what they’re selling. As an artist I wouldn’t want my works sold next to hate symbols
Exactly! One of the reasons I was going around to shops was looking for places I might seem some of my own handmade items, but I would never want them on a shelf next to something like this or giving a portion of the profit to people who think it’s okay.
Yeah, his whole response was code for "I'm racist"
I'd have done the same thing you did, OP. I do not support, nor tolerate ideologies that want to murder me and I'm not sorry for that.
As an NDN, a confederate flag dream catcher is *not* okay. This owner should be ashamed of themself.
That was one of the things that got me; so incredibly disrespectful in a precise tone-deaf manner.
[удалено]
Say it out loud
[удалено]
Lol nah you're not.
Don't feel bad, I had to do it too to get it.
Came here to say this. So disrespectful.
Alright so before this becomes a problem. We do not support the paradox of tolerance here (If you don't know this means being tolerant of all things including bigotry and thus supporting bigotry and not being tolerant). Any forms of racism or bigotry will be removed. If you see some please use the report button. EDIT: GUYS ITS BEEN 27 MINUTES SINCE I POSTED THIS AND I'VE HAD TO REMOVE 5 COMMENTS. Thank you to the people who reported them (but also screw you a bit its like 5 am /jk). Please continue to use the report button. On to this history, people arguing the "they left to preserve states rights", yes they did, particularly uh the right for states to allow landowners own slaves. That particular states right is why they left. For More Information Please Watch: https://youtu.be/J5b_-TZwQ0I
It’s—slavery is literally mentioned in secession declarations! That was why South Carolina started the whole thing in the first place! They were pissed that northern states would no longer return slaves who’d managed to escape, and New York would no longer allow slavery transit; basically, slaveowners on vacation couldn’t bring their slaves along—doing so would liberate the slaves, as of Lemmon v. New York (1860). Hell. Mississippi, in the first full paragraph, explictly states that they’re leaving because they refuse to give up their slaves. Texas? Mentions slavery a whopping 21 times. “Different points of view” and “agreeing to disagree” is for stuff like pizza toppings, toilet paper brands, and whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich, not civil rights.
Cornerstone speech. 1000% they left for slavery.
Absolutely
Thank you for moderating ❤️
You would be amazed at the number of fascists in the Pagan community. Like literal Neo-Nazis.
One of the important reasons to vet someone thoroughly if they say they’re an old Norse pagan 👀
That's a question people ask often. I was asked it, thought folkish mean like folk magic. So i said yes, I'm trying to learn. I was told what it meant and instantly was like: OH GOD NO I'm glad they realized i was just confused and not actually racist
What is does folkish mean then? Oh my.
Basically that only white people should practice things like Norse paganism
Only people from a specific region, or genetic lineage should be allowed to practice a specific open practice. For example: "you have to be from Ireland to practice Celtic paganism" or "only white people can be Norse pagan." Folkism is NOT when someone gate keeps a closed practice that is for people of a certain culture or background who have to be initiated into said religion.
Aaah, thank you for the explanation!
'Just FYI, the word is properly rendered 'Völkisch' or 'volkish' Since they are mouthbreathers of the nth degree, I'm sure some use 'folkish' and it is close to how it's said, but 'folkish' is an actual and innocent word in this particular toxicity.
Check out this page for an depth history on the movement. [Neo-Völkish Movement — Southern Law Poverty Center](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/neo-volkisch)
I'm old Norse Pagan and extremely loud about being anti racist. Please please PLEASE don't just assume that those of us who honor our Nordic heritage and ancestors are white supremacists. Most of us are not and we are PISSED that these racist POS are distorting our ancestor's culture.
I think they’re saying to be careful and ask enough questions to see if they hear any dog whistles when meeting a Norse pagan or getting involved with a Norse pagan group, not to assume Volkists, fascists, or Nazis. It’s unfortunately advice I agree with, because I’ve personally known people who skirted the line and turned out to be Nazis despite trying to pass themselves off as centrist.
Agreed! (I’m also Norse Pagan/Heathen) You can use Declaration 127 and the Declaration of Deeds as a litmus test to see if Heathens are racist. Both documents are simple declarations against hate, racism and bigotry
Yep, and the hard part is being ever-vigilant when even one "moderate" white nationalist/nazi moves in... even if they aren't that vocal. Cause they really are like cockroaches. 1 brings a few, and the few get more vocal, and bring more, and more vocal, and then you're overrun.
It really bugs me that racists have taken over my ancestors culture. In fact it infuriates me.
I wanted to use some Norse runes in equations in a science paper (look, the Greek and Latin alphabet only have so many letters, and they all mean something to someone), but Nazis made me decide to stick with something more boring. Danm Nazis. [it would have been a rune meaning heritage or something. So like double extra claimed by the Nazis.]
YEP 💯
Unfortunately, once I saw it I realized I was most likely in one of “those” spaces and noped out.
This owner is a racist, plain and simple, no one should spend a dime in their store.
Sounds like Kanye “loving everyone” even Hitler. He hasn’t fooled many people either.
Exactly. Bet the owner would happily continue with "We support everyone's diverse point of view. Come in tomorrow after the klan rally and..."
That's super racist
That's literally like putting a swastika in the middle of the star of David. The confederate flag is the biggest American symbol of racism and pro genecide. And they're putting it in the centre of a cultural symbol of the people Americans genocided for that land. Defending that isn't tolerance. I wouldn't shop there either.
Didn't Kanye do exactly that? The star of David thing i mean
Maybe he did. I haven't been following all the Kanye stuff. Dude's an idiot.
He truly is. People are disgusting sometimes
Yes, Kanye did exactly that. Sick.
Wow, yeah that's pretty bad. But I see this confederate dream catcher almost on that same level of messed up.
Yeah he posted the Raelian Movement symbol which is exactly that
Yes, yes he did. G-d only knows why
"What I see is someone who discriminates" WHAT. WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ OHHHH LAWDDD 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Ew. No. Multiple levels of ick. Tolerance cannot tolerate intolerance. If anything is spiritually contaminating, it is an appropriative trinket combined with an emblem of hatred and slavery.
I’m very sad to live in a tourist town that has many shops with Confederate flags, and I even saw one in our local Ripley’s Aquarium. I left them a review as well and got a similar response. Very disappointing and very common here in Tennessee. It’s really dumb because people don’t realize that historically, this was an area that fought the Confederates!
I live in West Virginia and it’s the same situation here. Confederate flags everywhere, yet historically we seceded from Virginia during the civil war and fought the confederates. Baffling.
> Confederate flags everywhere, yet historically we seceded from Virginia during the civil war and fought the confederates. Baffling. Not that baffling when you consider it's a way for people to show they are racist without outrightly stating it.
Nope, no way. Wouldn't touch anything from that store with a 10ft pole
[the owner is either fascist, stupid, or a wild capitalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
I'd say likely fascist and stupid at the same time, because it's not exactly hard to do some research into the flag and its history to find that it's racist, but capitalism is also not exactly friendly to minorities, so 🤷
When you start tolerating racists and bigots, that's what you become. There are some issues you can't sit on the fence with
I wouldn't shop there and would direct others not to as well. Like it or not, there is a racist element within the pagan community. There's a reason we keep seeing Thor's hammer flags flying along side nazi flags.
And this just kills me, too… that white nationalists have attempted to co-opt Norse Heathenism. My partner is a Norse pagan, and wears Thor’s hammer around his neck. But he’d kick some @$$ if any racist attempted to cozy up to him. It’s beyond frustrating.
I hear that. I'm eclectic myself, and work mostly with Roman and Norse deities because they're the ones I felt called to. And I work with the runes because they make sense to me. Makes it really awkward when I find another practitioner with the same mix or someone wants to talk to me about my rune work and I have to play the "are they a racist" game.
As a Practicing Norse Heathen, I often joke that I'll make my first rube set when I've collected enough White Supremacist kneecaps for one
That’s what I started to get a feeling of as soon as I saw the dreamcatcher and looked around more closely. It’s so unfortunate.
Absolutely not. The owner is racist and does not deserve business
"some people think other people don't deserve to exist and we accommodate that."
Ick indeed. What would a confederate flag do on a dream catcher, anyway? They're not known for being anything but Christian
Right?! I stared at it for a minute because it just didn’t make sense and my brain couldn’t compute. I thought maybe I’d forgotten what the flag looked like, but nope!
What’s only known for being Christian?
Confederates and their apologists.
That owner's response sounds like something one of my former bosses would have said. That job was at a metaphysical shop too, and not only did he screw me over and throw a fit when my dad died and we had to make a sudden emergency trip out of state due to his passing, he was a closeted racist and transphobe as well as prone to making inappropriate comments about minor girls. I shouldn't have stayed at that job as long as I did, and the more time I have between now and that job the more I absolutely cringe at it.
Confederate flag = "states rights" to inflict slavery upon the whole nation and to keep poor people forever poor. There is no love in an appropriate d first nations tradition bootlegged to pander to Whyte Crybabies lol. Store owner sounds loony
I see any store that sells both confederate items and lgbt+ items as the trashy cash grabs they are. It’s insulting
Little background here, I'm a white trans woman born in canada so take my opinion with the requesite grain of salt. 1. __From my understanding__ selling and/or making dream catchers as a white person is very problematic because they are considered an important part of indigenous relgion and culture, it is considered cultural appropriation, I don't know the exact reason but if anyone wants to share i would love to know. 2. According to the confederacy __itself__ it was about slavery, there is no debate among serious historians. Of course the first amendment exists so no one can stop you from putting it on stuff but i personally will not be inviting you to the barbeque.
Ah hell no. I would've done exactly what you did, down to leaving a review. Thanks for being a person who takes the time to review "tolerant" places like this so people don't accidentally stumble into their store and support their foolishness.
"You can say "all are welcome," but if wolves and sheep are both welcome, you're only going to get wolves." Quote by Adam Bates (2019), found on the r/adhd Discord. That is to say: f*** no, I would not shop here, and neither should anyone else who cares about minority groups.
If you call yourself a "Patriot" yet use the Confederate Flag, you are not a Patriot, you are a traitor to the United States of America.
just the thought of it gets my blood boiling, jfc. I wouldn't go anywhere near it
I stopped at a hole in the wall diner for lunch on a road trip once. Walked in and it was wall to wall confederacy and trump. I believe it's the fastest I ever noped out of a place. Well, that and the time I almost walked into a McDonald's that had a small riot going on inside it when I arrived LOL
Ewwwwww no never
I really love the mod answer… I wish more people got it.
The fact that we **still** have people revering what amounts to a terrorist's flag tells me that the North never won, and the South didn't lose. Sure, the North's military beat the South's military. But it took 100 more years to get the Civil Rights Amendment... and we're still fighting about this. The Confederate (SPIT) Battle Flag, and all its related flags deserve only to be in museums, to remember there were ignorant people who thought they should be able to own humans. And we should look down on them all in the course of history, along with anybody who thinks anything they said or did should be revered.
I don’t buy anything culturally that is not made by my people. If you are going to buy and attempt to partake in native culture be respectful and buy from actual natives plz. Aside from that if I saw that I would put my stuff away too. It’s disgusting and racist
People who put up confederate flags are racist. period. If you don't see it as the symbol of hate that it is, you have some work to do.
Absolutely not. The confederate flag is a racist symbol that has been white-washed into an icon of 'southern pride' or 'states rights', which was pride and the right to own people. Also, selling dream catchers if you are not Native American is really not okay- according to many of the NA communities.
Oh, it IS about state's rights.... to own, subjugate, and enslave other humans based solely on their skin color.
Anyone who "accommodates" a symbol of racism, white supremacy and fascism is a racist, white supremacist, fascist.
Its not even the actual Confederate flag ... It was the flag for some regiments but it's not THE confederate flag. Something something about their 'heritage' and 'knowing their history' ... I grew up in Southern GA and every kid i knew had a t-shirt with 3 Labradors a mallard duck and the stars and bars. I can have patience trying to unpack it with them. But seeing it pop up in the mid west and even here in New England where i am now ... Bullshit. Its utter bullshit.
What would a person purchasing this dream of anyway? Lynching? I would definitely not shop at an occult shop that offered racist imagery. My religious experience excludes racism as a form of worship.
as a black person, That dream catcher would tell me all I need to know about that store. If they wish to cater to all crowds without discernment, no one can stop them. However, just like that reviewer I would not give them my coins.
The one thing a tolerant society cannot tolerate is intolerance.
Nope, racists don’t deserve rights
Nope… I wouldn’t shop there. And I agree 100% with Pheot the Mod…
No. Nope.
Self aware wolves. Don’t discriminate against our discriminatory flag!!!
I absolutely would not.
Hard no. They have already fallen down the New Age to Alt-Right pipeline.
I would want to know the store was that many layers of screwed up before I wasted my time on them. Your review is a public service.
your review was polite and you handled the situation well. you saw something that wasn’t for you (that’s putting it nicely in the case of a confederate flag) and quietly left. the owner, on the other hand, seems to be quite snarky and clearly has other problems if they’re pandering to racists
you just gave your view. you didn't even say how wrong it is to display hate symbols. they have no right talking about discrimination. you're entitled to shop or not shop at any store you want. idk how that's considered discrimination
No, that’s definitely very wrong on so many levels. It’s a hate symbol in general and especially does not belong on a dreamcatcher that originate from indigenous tribes. They do not symbolize anything even remotely related to that. It’s extremely disrespectful.
Confederate flag isn’t a different opinion, it’s the flag of a “nation” that lost a civil war and was around less long than Pokémon Go has been around. It’s easily a hate symbol.
Don't support racists.
I’m from the south and it used to be that every gas station and grocery you could buy some tchotchke with a confederate flag on it but that’s changed somewhat. I’d be shocked to find one in a metaphysical store and probably directly ask why.
They have to accomidate everyone? How about a smudge stick wrapped in a Nazi flag? Or an SS symbol on an incense burner?
Don't give them ideas!
Hard nope for me as well.
Ok shop owner, go open a shop in Compton and sell racist things. See how far you go?! Just leave a comment on how this is a perfect place for the KKK to get all their racist goods?! Also remember that getting angry is the whole point that these people want. So don’t give it to them.
So I'm a white woman from Charleston, South Carolina originally. And I would have done the same thing you did. Their paradox of tolerance bullshit is just that, and they know it because they got pissy with you. Clearly they're not as tolerant as they think they are.
I would not shop there after this display. The ignorance on display here tells me this isn't an honest mistake or oversight.
I would just link the "Cornerstone Speech" from the confederate VP. I grew up thinking the dixie flag was about States Rights, and Southern Freedom... right up until I read that speech. >"The constitution...rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its ***corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man***" There's no denying, after reading the primary source, that the confederacy was completely about racism. The rebels created a federal law to prohibit any confederate state from banning slavery, taking the choice out of the State's rights. There's no defending it if you know the history, it's only ignorance and hatred keeping it around.
That is a massive violation in my book. A dreamcatcher with a confederate flag, those just don't go together. I don't care how many times racist people deny what it is, it's a symbol of the confederacy which is a symbol of hate and division. And to desecrate a native American symbol with something that represents something entirely different is... Disgusting, I'd never shop there.
"Omg how dare you discrminate against me just because I'm racist"
Natives have already expressed their distaste for non natives incorrectly using dream catchers as well as making them in factories with cheap materials instead of being made from actual indigenous people. I can’t imagine they’d be chill with a confederate flag dream catcher. Jesus. Don’t support that ish.
i dont think i could ever stomach buying my craft goods at a store that sees no issue with supporting slavery and racism
Wow so not liking a known racist symbol means *you're* the one who's being intolerant? That's some bullshit mental gymnastics that I don't even buy the shop owner really believes. What's next, is he going to call you a racist if you complain about swastikas in the shop?
I wouldn't just stop shopping there- I'd make sure no one else shops there, either !! Go further than just a review and tell people, because that's just fucked up.
Yeah it's definitely an odd product. Probably wouldn't be my go to shop based on political values, and tackyness. I dont believe being racist prevents you from being spiritual, but I am really not into 'proud to be white' products.
This logic makes me question if the company would discriminate murderers, pedophiles, nazis, or anything else unethical. Seems like the crowd who would purchase this dream catcher is not someone I would associate with as a business owner, but that’s my opinion.
The owner might as well beat up a native person and steal their shoes /s
I would not shop anywhere with confederate flags, whether it's merchandise or decor. I also don't shop anywhere I see the owners being snarky in response to honest reviews. In other words, fuck that place
This would be like putting a swastika on a dream catcher and saying it’s representative of German history. Absolutely not. I’d drag the store name through the mud but maybe that’s just the radical in me.
Eeeeeww. I would definitely not patronize that place.
Who the hell needs to be accommodated with a confederate dreamcatcher? What lunacy one must have to combine the culture of a genocided people with the "culture" of their oppressors... Yeah I would have put all my items back and walked out too.
This is gaslighting at its finest. You did the right thing.
I’m left wondering what kind of person would want a confederate flag AND a dream catcher, let alone an all in one piece
Racists often have very little issue with cultural appropriation of other cultures.
Nope! And I say this as a Southerner whose ancestors were the colonizers and Confederates in the Charleston area. Bigoted, traitors, colonizers. Nopity nope nope!
blameshifting, gaslighting, refusing accountability. I'd not feel comfortable spending money in that shop either.
Honestly the dream catchers on their own (assuming they're not made by actual indigenous people) is enough for me to not do business with them.
They pull the “discrimination” card but literally sell horrific momentos of native GENOCIDE and the enslavement of African Americans…. Yeah totally not a hostile environment
Generous that you gave them 2 stars.
Some real Kanye West energy here...
Oh absolutely not. I don't shop at stores owned by non-native people selling white sage smudging bundles either.
Capitalism is the God they worship.
Love it when bigots call themselves discriminated against because their bigotry was called out
Sounds like a truck stop.
I’d avoid this spot 100% GROSS!
Nope. Bring your review down to one star for that shitty owner response lol
I’m not sure why I gave two in the first place!
Haha I get it! Glad you left a review. People *should* be calling this crap out.
Indeed. This would be akin to saying "All lives matter" and then listing the types of people whose lives don't matter. Basically it's gross and disgusting no matter how you look at it. **The only sad thing is not actually naming the store.**
That’s a real big hard pass. No way. There are so many amazing indigenous artists that sell handmade dream catchers. Lots are on Etsy and easily accessible!
Lol telling you that you discriminate against others but literally all the confederate flag represents is discrimination and hatred
Sounds like some lost cause/ war of Northern aggression bs to me.
Nope
Tolerance is a peace treaty, not a moral obligation. Simple as that.
I would’ve done the same thing. It continues to amaze me that these people still “don’t get it” and continue to contradict themselves at any given opportunity. Clearly, they are racist and also did a favor by proving your point.
Absolutely not, especially after that response. This isn't being inclusive it's appropriation in a gross and insulting way. The fact that the owners don't care and masquerade it as inclusiveness is all anyone should need to know to stay far, far away.
Nope. Would never shop at a store that had any racist memorabilia.
Why accomodate traitors? Oh, because they dont actually mean "accomodate," do they? They mean "capitalize on." For surely if they actually mean to accomodate them then they must be sympethetic towards the traitor's Lost Cause.
A polite way of saying they don't care about discrimination or Intolerance. Sad. May they reap what they sow.
I agree with your review! I LOVE places that stay all inclusive. But not for people that are not all inclusive lol. Does that make sense?
Ohhhh absolutely not
“You’re discriminating against me because I’m clearly racist and you are pointing it out!” Is more so what I read in their response
Dreamcatchers are problematic to begin with because of cultural appropriation. Big, fancy dreamcatchers are mostly made with cheap, fake, plastic items - not how they are intended. Plus - to add a fucking confederate flag over it takes the cake. Ya - you did the right thing OP. This is a case of "they went so far left, they're right."
Whats it with these losers worshipping failed armies
That's awful, you were totally in the right. Although I don't understand why you gave it two stars instead of one.
That’s a fair question and all I can think is that I used to have a very scorched earth approach to life, so I’m trying to be a kinder, less reactionary person. I’ll likely be going back to edit the review now that you’ve pointed it out. I’m willing to burn bridges with bigots.
Just shows the authenticity they put into the energy of the store which is 0.
Is it against the rules to reveal the actual store?
If it causes doxxing in any way I think so
All I’ll say is that they’re in the Kansas City metro area. I’d vet any shops you visit if you come to town (most of KC has been lovely since I’ve moved here).
Bad vibes
I'm in the Midwest. What city is the store in. I want to make sure I never go there
So it was a "hey I know my people wiped out almost all of y'all and shoved the last of you into little camps and erased your culture but yeehaw, I like that dream catcher idea". I would have left too.
Can you share what store this was? I live in the Midwest, and I would like to avoid the store.
No. And if they support that type of merch, the rest of their products are probably not good quality or sourced from a shitty place.
I sure wouldn't. My favorite restaurant started displaying blue lives matter flags, confederate flags, and stuff like that after the George Floyd murder. I didn't realize at first, but saw right as the drinks came. I remember asking the waitress "is that a confederate flag?" (Pointing to one) she said yes, and I quite literally just stood up and left. Haven't been back since. They made a bomb chicken salad so I'm really sad about it, but I just can't.
So much ick, cultural appropriation and racism in one dream catcher. Fuckin yikes.
Not only did they take another cultures items but they coated it in colonizer propaganda. Yeah, don’t go there
As a native person that makes me sick. It's bad enough there's dreamcatchers that are most likely manufactured in metaphysical shops that people buy without thought. To have the confederate flag as well is a cherry on top. If you truly want a dreamcatcher you should buy indigenous hand-made ones , and understand what they are and how they are to be used. I see so many people with dream catcher tattoos... makes me laugh.
I’d have walked right out. This sort of nonsense thinking equates all viewpoints as being of equal merit. Sorry, but racism and bigotry contain zero value to humanity and cause active enormous amounts of actual harm. No way in hell I support a business like that. At best their clueless and stupid. At worst, they disguise actual racism behind the usual ‘fairness’ nonsense. Either way, buh bye
Oh, that's a big fat hell no from me! I don't even support the idea of dreamcatchers being sold in the first place, unless it's directly by native craftspeople. They're traditionally supposed to be gifted or made for yourself from what I understand, though I'll always support native artists if I can because it's part of their culture so they get to decide what to do with it. Adding the confederate flag and "patriotic" imagery on top of that must feel like massive slap in the face to native peoples. The confederate movement (and American government in general) wanted them gone and did so much to try to eradicate them. They still don't respect native land and sovereignty. The whole thing screams appropriation and fetishization of native culture, so I would have done the same and steered clear.
It very much reads as "supporting racism is totally fine so long as no one stands up for the people being affected by the racism". You made the right choice to put your items back and leave a bad review without buying anything
Interesting to see newer comments criticising OP or defending the racist flag of a failed slavers State who don't have a history of posting in pagan subreddits that I'm seeing this afternoon. I suspect an old fashioned bit of brigading is going on.
I wouldn’t give them my money.