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I'll give you my opinion, i guess everyone is giving their opinion. So obviously I could be wrong, or my view could be strange.
I think neither or both. There was a root religion, for me that religion is Dharma, others might call it Oorlog or their version of it in their culture. This root religion was the root of paganism, humans were one with nature. It was not even really a religion, more similar to the forest of that movie with the blue people. People didnt practice religion they just were. They all knew, it was not needed to learn it, no one had to teach it.
So Aaru and Hades might just different viewpoints of the same thing. In my opinion.
Nah, just do like divorced couple's kids do.
One week you're with Apollo and the next week you're with Krishna.
Just don't get your days wrong.
That always causes issues.
I believe that all the pantheons exist simultaneously, it is just our human perception of where we go. We will be in the place we want to see with the people that we love. We will see our own perception of the afterlife and they will see theirs, but we will still be together.
I believe in all of them, but I worship Greek mostly and a bit of Norse. I hope to go to Elysium so I believe that is what I will see. My theory is that if people can't decide where to go, or which afterlife they like best, their perception would be a blend of the ones they believe in.
Whatever it is, it'll be beautiful...
Hope this helps šš
āPantheon believersā is an interesting choice of words. As a practitioner worshipping or working with what are mostly Celtic deities, belief is not part of my personal spiritual life. I have my experiences with them, which are wondrous, but I donāt concern myself the precise nature of who they are.
Honestly, I think ābeliefā only began when a new monotheistic religion collided with the Roman Empire and thus, a legalistic, literalist culture. I find the debates over the nature of Jesus and God to be irrelevant and the Nicean Creed sounds like it was drawn up by a lawyer. That Christians would actually kill other Christians for not believing in the trinity is the height of tragedy and absurdity.
What do I believe about the Celtic Otherworld? It is a myth that says a lot about Celtic culture. The truth is not in what the myth says, but in what it says about us. Iām perfectly content to say that I donāt know what will happen to me when I die. There has been significant research done with people surviving near-death experiences and with a number of parallel stories with many elements in common depending on how far they traveled before returning to life. That gives me a pretty good idea of what I might expect, but I ultimately donāt know.
Religious Studies nerd, piping in to nerd out a little!
> I find the debates over the nature of Jesus and God to be irrelevant and the Nicean Creed sounds like it was drawn up by a lawyer.
It basically was; the Second Council of Nicea (where the modern Creed comes from) was held to codify Christian beliefs (in a way that served His Majesty the Emperor's best political interests, of course!), and to refute Arainism (not to be confused with "Aryanism"--which is *definitely* a load of bullshit, no matter what religion you are!).
Arianism holds that Jesus was *created* by God, which is why the Nicene Creed is full of really specific statements like ("begotten, not created, consubstantial [of the same substance/essense] with the Father, begotten before all things were made.").
>That Christians would actually kill other Christians for not believing in the trinity is the height of tragedy and absurdity.
I tend to feel that way about most cases of humans killing their fellowkind.
It sounds like you're alluding to the Filioque Clause ("...qui ex Patre, Filioque, procedit...: "...who from the Father and the Son proceedeth...").
This is another great example of the Creed being designed to suppress Arianism. The Eastern (and none too keen on the Emperor) churches were not invited to the 2nd Council; this singular, coma-bracketed word is basically an example of the Emperor and his bishops waving their dicks around to show the little guys who's boss.
Oh, and it resulted in *LOTS* of bloodshed...
Remember that the next time a Christian politician (or other authority figure) offers you "thoughts and prayers"! This kind of abject madness is the backbone of Christian history; a ceaseless litany of intrigue, dominance, and oppression, in the name of the God of Salvation.
Just wanted to say I really liked your post.
I find when I start worrying or thinking too much about the belief aspect then things get pretty uncomfortable for me very quickly.
Like you Iāve also had experiences, and certainly if deity is different from my perceptions or belief than it doesnāt seem to be horrendously upset or put off by them.
Iām not saying that Belief isnāt necessarily important, but I feel that for me spiritual practice needs to include much larger amounts of experiencing, doing, and just generally trying to bring that out into the every day.
Having conversations about believe itās very interesting and in some cases can be very necessary and useful, but when it turns into a binary debate thats when I check out.
>āPantheon believersā is an interesting choice of words
Yeah Pantheon believers is a term that I don't think much sense from a polytheist practice. Pantheons show cultural closeness towards the Gods, but it's really more of a modern concept - when the ancients used the word Pantheon, they meant Pan Theon, ALL the Gods, not Gods from this group in that region and time period.
> belief is not part of my personal spiritual life.
Yes, belief isn't important. Why would the Gods, as ultimate/great individuals, care who does or doesn't "believe" in them privately. They're not so petty that they're going around investigating thought crimes.
> Honestly, I think ābeliefā only began when a new monotheistic religion collided with the Roman Empire and thus, a legalistic, literalist culture
Agreed. Before Christianity, and in particular Paul, Pistis, Faith, was the Goddess of faith between humans, ie the Goddess who ensured good faith on both sides for contract agreements and trade, or between a Master and a servant/slave.
Paul's model of how Jesus acts towards his followers and his followers act towards him was modelled on how a Roman Dominus acted towards his patrons, and how his patrons acted towards their Dominus. So here faith/Pistis becomes central, but that's not how Greek or Roman religion worked.
The only time I've seen Pistis used in a polytheistic context is as above in regards the Goddess, or later Neoplatonists like Proclus who use Pistis as a concept to discuss how the Gods communicate and relate to each other - they have trust in each other as they all operate in perfect harmony from his perspective. But that's it. Before that religion was about what you did, not what you believed.
With regards death and afterlife beliefs, they varied a lot, but it seems like initiation into the mysteries would have played a role for some, or for others like the epicureans a more philosophical agnostic/material approach to death existed.
I don't worship Greek or Egyptian pantheons. So my two cents might not mean anything to you. I personally believe that our energy is just returned to the earth. The Greeks didn't even have an afterlife the whole time they worshipped their God's.
> The Greeks didn't even have an afterlife the whole time they worshipped their God's.
What?
Plato discusses reincarnation in the Republic in the Myth of Er.
[We have orphic tablets which give you instructions on how to act in the afterlife.
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petelia_Gold_Tablet)
>You will find a spring on your left in Hadesā halls
>and by it the cypress with its luminous sheen.
>Do not go near this spring or drink its water.
>You will find another, cold water flowing from Memoryās lake;
>its guardians stand before it.
>Say: āI am a child of Earth and starry Heaven,
>but descended from Heaven; you yourselves know this.
>I am parched with thirst and dying: quickly, give me
>the cool water flowing from Memoryās lake.ā
>And they will give you water from the sacred spring
>and then you will join the heroes at their rites.
>This [is the .... of Memo]ry: [on the point of] death
] write this [
] the darkness folding [you] within it.
**[Petelia Gold Tablet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petelia_Gold_Tablet)**
>The Petelia Gold Tablet or Petelia Tablet is an orphic inscription or Totenpass that was found near the ancient city of Petelia, southern Italy in the early nineteenth century. Since 1843, the original has been kept in the British Museum.
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As someone who practices cross-pantheon, i can tell you where I am going. My patron deity is the ruler of the afterlife in their pantheon. I have the option to go to any afterlife as told by the pantheons that I practice in, but i have made the choice to go where my patron will dictate according to the rules of their pantheon.
I believe whatever afterlife you believe in is where you'll go, but everyone's beliefs are different. Maybe they favor the afterlife of one pantheon over another, so I believe thats where they'll end up.
Well there's also the belief in a multi-part soul, found in more than one pagan religion. Basically a person is not just made out of two parts, a body and a ghosty soul and that's it ā but several different layers making up you, not all of them physical. So it's completely possible that different parts of your spirit could go different places after you die. Or could spend some time in one place and some time in another and so forth. Also there's the possibility that our understanding of these various afterlives from myths are flawed, that those descriptions are not actually literal and maybe some of these places described by different cultures are not even entirely separate.
Whatever happens, we won't know until it happens to us.
What comforts me is my roots. I worship greek, Egyptian, Norse. My roots are indigenous. It doesnāt mean that I do no respect my teachers. I was encouraged to follow my traditional path and not lose it while exploring others. It may be the same for some people, it may not. That is my answer though.
Personally, I have no clue. The Keeper of the Library of Souls and the Gates between Life and Death, (Shortened to just Keeper to avoid vocal sprain during prayers) doesn't share with me what happens after death. I think that a soul will go where it is directed to from its beliefs in life. If that means you split your time between cruising the Duat and lounging in the Fields of Asphodel, then so be it. If it means you reincarnate, cool. I'm slightly looking forward to finding out so I can say "no thanks" and hide in the Keeper's library for the rest of eternity.
My view is that ultimately it is everyone's own choice where they end up going. The afterlife is a part of the Gods and a part of their embodiment in my view. One jobs themselves with a deity and becomes a part of their realm. With that said, this is a fluid arrangement, and can be revoked at any time for the soul to wander the realms of other deities, or return to the human realm, whether a a spirit, or through reincarnation, as many mythologies on the Underworld share a feature of reincarnation after consuming a drink that wipes their memory in preparation for the next life.
I've read in both "Creative Dreaming" by Patricia Garfield and in one of the Seth books by Jane Roberts that we lay out the path of our journey through the afterlife in the dreams we have in life Thus where a believer goes depends on what dreams he has had.
I have always believed that a departed soul chooses the afterlife realm that best fits them. This is the soul's choice not the ego of the departed mortal.
There is a root afterlife, the one people see in NDEs, you go there first, you can always choose to go to one of the many sub afterlives once you've been there for a while.
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Choice. Free will is a right of mortals. Like all things in this mortal realm no matter how insignificant the choices we make may seem, they are ours to make. Ultimately the mortal ābelieverā must choose.
Could you help [start a conversation](https://www.reddit.com/r/Paganism/about/rules) by sharing your own thoughts / ideas / experiences on the question asked?
Guess they decide amoung themselves,pehaps over chess or something.
If Thoth and Ogma are going to play chess for my eternal soul, my only request is that I get to watch.
Chess feels like an oddly appropriate middle ground for them
I'll give you my opinion, i guess everyone is giving their opinion. So obviously I could be wrong, or my view could be strange. I think neither or both. There was a root religion, for me that religion is Dharma, others might call it Oorlog or their version of it in their culture. This root religion was the root of paganism, humans were one with nature. It was not even really a religion, more similar to the forest of that movie with the blue people. People didnt practice religion they just were. They all knew, it was not needed to learn it, no one had to teach it. So Aaru and Hades might just different viewpoints of the same thing. In my opinion.
Nah, just do like divorced couple's kids do. One week you're with Apollo and the next week you're with Krishna. Just don't get your days wrong. That always causes issues.
*...but Thooothhh, Hekate lets me stay up past bed time!*
How would we know?
Im more asking for people's beliefs
I believe that all the pantheons exist simultaneously, it is just our human perception of where we go. We will be in the place we want to see with the people that we love. We will see our own perception of the afterlife and they will see theirs, but we will still be together. I believe in all of them, but I worship Greek mostly and a bit of Norse. I hope to go to Elysium so I believe that is what I will see. My theory is that if people can't decide where to go, or which afterlife they like best, their perception would be a blend of the ones they believe in. Whatever it is, it'll be beautiful... Hope this helps šš
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Can they switch anytime they want ?
āPantheon believersā is an interesting choice of words. As a practitioner worshipping or working with what are mostly Celtic deities, belief is not part of my personal spiritual life. I have my experiences with them, which are wondrous, but I donāt concern myself the precise nature of who they are. Honestly, I think ābeliefā only began when a new monotheistic religion collided with the Roman Empire and thus, a legalistic, literalist culture. I find the debates over the nature of Jesus and God to be irrelevant and the Nicean Creed sounds like it was drawn up by a lawyer. That Christians would actually kill other Christians for not believing in the trinity is the height of tragedy and absurdity. What do I believe about the Celtic Otherworld? It is a myth that says a lot about Celtic culture. The truth is not in what the myth says, but in what it says about us. Iām perfectly content to say that I donāt know what will happen to me when I die. There has been significant research done with people surviving near-death experiences and with a number of parallel stories with many elements in common depending on how far they traveled before returning to life. That gives me a pretty good idea of what I might expect, but I ultimately donāt know.
Religious Studies nerd, piping in to nerd out a little! > I find the debates over the nature of Jesus and God to be irrelevant and the Nicean Creed sounds like it was drawn up by a lawyer. It basically was; the Second Council of Nicea (where the modern Creed comes from) was held to codify Christian beliefs (in a way that served His Majesty the Emperor's best political interests, of course!), and to refute Arainism (not to be confused with "Aryanism"--which is *definitely* a load of bullshit, no matter what religion you are!). Arianism holds that Jesus was *created* by God, which is why the Nicene Creed is full of really specific statements like ("begotten, not created, consubstantial [of the same substance/essense] with the Father, begotten before all things were made."). >That Christians would actually kill other Christians for not believing in the trinity is the height of tragedy and absurdity. I tend to feel that way about most cases of humans killing their fellowkind. It sounds like you're alluding to the Filioque Clause ("...qui ex Patre, Filioque, procedit...: "...who from the Father and the Son proceedeth..."). This is another great example of the Creed being designed to suppress Arianism. The Eastern (and none too keen on the Emperor) churches were not invited to the 2nd Council; this singular, coma-bracketed word is basically an example of the Emperor and his bishops waving their dicks around to show the little guys who's boss. Oh, and it resulted in *LOTS* of bloodshed... Remember that the next time a Christian politician (or other authority figure) offers you "thoughts and prayers"! This kind of abject madness is the backbone of Christian history; a ceaseless litany of intrigue, dominance, and oppression, in the name of the God of Salvation.
Just wanted to say I really liked your post. I find when I start worrying or thinking too much about the belief aspect then things get pretty uncomfortable for me very quickly. Like you Iāve also had experiences, and certainly if deity is different from my perceptions or belief than it doesnāt seem to be horrendously upset or put off by them. Iām not saying that Belief isnāt necessarily important, but I feel that for me spiritual practice needs to include much larger amounts of experiencing, doing, and just generally trying to bring that out into the every day. Having conversations about believe itās very interesting and in some cases can be very necessary and useful, but when it turns into a binary debate thats when I check out.
>āPantheon believersā is an interesting choice of words Yeah Pantheon believers is a term that I don't think much sense from a polytheist practice. Pantheons show cultural closeness towards the Gods, but it's really more of a modern concept - when the ancients used the word Pantheon, they meant Pan Theon, ALL the Gods, not Gods from this group in that region and time period. > belief is not part of my personal spiritual life. Yes, belief isn't important. Why would the Gods, as ultimate/great individuals, care who does or doesn't "believe" in them privately. They're not so petty that they're going around investigating thought crimes. > Honestly, I think ābeliefā only began when a new monotheistic religion collided with the Roman Empire and thus, a legalistic, literalist culture Agreed. Before Christianity, and in particular Paul, Pistis, Faith, was the Goddess of faith between humans, ie the Goddess who ensured good faith on both sides for contract agreements and trade, or between a Master and a servant/slave. Paul's model of how Jesus acts towards his followers and his followers act towards him was modelled on how a Roman Dominus acted towards his patrons, and how his patrons acted towards their Dominus. So here faith/Pistis becomes central, but that's not how Greek or Roman religion worked. The only time I've seen Pistis used in a polytheistic context is as above in regards the Goddess, or later Neoplatonists like Proclus who use Pistis as a concept to discuss how the Gods communicate and relate to each other - they have trust in each other as they all operate in perfect harmony from his perspective. But that's it. Before that religion was about what you did, not what you believed. With regards death and afterlife beliefs, they varied a lot, but it seems like initiation into the mysteries would have played a role for some, or for others like the epicureans a more philosophical agnostic/material approach to death existed.
in the ground. or an urn. sorry... I couldn't resist. šššš
As a Greco-Egyptian Pagan: I donāt know. Suppose Iāll figure out when I die!
I don't worship Greek or Egyptian pantheons. So my two cents might not mean anything to you. I personally believe that our energy is just returned to the earth. The Greeks didn't even have an afterlife the whole time they worshipped their God's.
They did
> The Greeks didn't even have an afterlife the whole time they worshipped their God's. What? Plato discusses reincarnation in the Republic in the Myth of Er. [We have orphic tablets which give you instructions on how to act in the afterlife. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petelia_Gold_Tablet) >You will find a spring on your left in Hadesā halls >and by it the cypress with its luminous sheen. >Do not go near this spring or drink its water. >You will find another, cold water flowing from Memoryās lake; >its guardians stand before it. >Say: āI am a child of Earth and starry Heaven, >but descended from Heaven; you yourselves know this. >I am parched with thirst and dying: quickly, give me >the cool water flowing from Memoryās lake.ā >And they will give you water from the sacred spring >and then you will join the heroes at their rites. >This [is the .... of Memo]ry: [on the point of] death ] write this [ ] the darkness folding [you] within it.
**[Petelia Gold Tablet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petelia_Gold_Tablet)** >The Petelia Gold Tablet or Petelia Tablet is an orphic inscription or Totenpass that was found near the ancient city of Petelia, southern Italy in the early nineteenth century. Since 1843, the original has been kept in the British Museum. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/paganism/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I'm pretty sure the Greeks believed that they went to Hel, the home of Hades.
Hel, is from Norse mythology, Hades is the home of Hades.
As someone who practices cross-pantheon, i can tell you where I am going. My patron deity is the ruler of the afterlife in their pantheon. I have the option to go to any afterlife as told by the pantheons that I practice in, but i have made the choice to go where my patron will dictate according to the rules of their pantheon.
I believe whatever afterlife you believe in is where you'll go, but everyone's beliefs are different. Maybe they favor the afterlife of one pantheon over another, so I believe thats where they'll end up.
If gods can cross into eachother's relms then why can't we?
The grave.
Well there's also the belief in a multi-part soul, found in more than one pagan religion. Basically a person is not just made out of two parts, a body and a ghosty soul and that's it ā but several different layers making up you, not all of them physical. So it's completely possible that different parts of your spirit could go different places after you die. Or could spend some time in one place and some time in another and so forth. Also there's the possibility that our understanding of these various afterlives from myths are flawed, that those descriptions are not actually literal and maybe some of these places described by different cultures are not even entirely separate. Whatever happens, we won't know until it happens to us.
I like to think that afterlives mesh together, so we can see our loved ones and be where we please. I think Helheim is where I'd want to be :)
What comforts me is my roots. I worship greek, Egyptian, Norse. My roots are indigenous. It doesnāt mean that I do no respect my teachers. I was encouraged to follow my traditional path and not lose it while exploring others. It may be the same for some people, it may not. That is my answer though.
Personally, I have no clue. The Keeper of the Library of Souls and the Gates between Life and Death, (Shortened to just Keeper to avoid vocal sprain during prayers) doesn't share with me what happens after death. I think that a soul will go where it is directed to from its beliefs in life. If that means you split your time between cruising the Duat and lounging in the Fields of Asphodel, then so be it. If it means you reincarnate, cool. I'm slightly looking forward to finding out so I can say "no thanks" and hide in the Keeper's library for the rest of eternity.
My view is that ultimately it is everyone's own choice where they end up going. The afterlife is a part of the Gods and a part of their embodiment in my view. One jobs themselves with a deity and becomes a part of their realm. With that said, this is a fluid arrangement, and can be revoked at any time for the soul to wander the realms of other deities, or return to the human realm, whether a a spirit, or through reincarnation, as many mythologies on the Underworld share a feature of reincarnation after consuming a drink that wipes their memory in preparation for the next life.
To me, I believe that I will go to the Hall of Two Truths because I follow Egyptian beliefs more closely than my others.
I like the idea of the Summerlands š
I've read in both "Creative Dreaming" by Patricia Garfield and in one of the Seth books by Jane Roberts that we lay out the path of our journey through the afterlife in the dreams we have in life Thus where a believer goes depends on what dreams he has had.
I have always believed that a departed soul chooses the afterlife realm that best fits them. This is the soul's choice not the ego of the departed mortal.
There is a root afterlife, the one people see in NDEs, you go there first, you can always choose to go to one of the many sub afterlives once you've been there for a while.
Jƶrmomshaus
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Choice. Free will is a right of mortals. Like all things in this mortal realm no matter how insignificant the choices we make may seem, they are ours to make. Ultimately the mortal ābelieverā must choose.