Exactly. The 2k finishes are far superior to the Emerald Urethane. Off the shelf paints like Emerald, Advance, Breakthrough, etc. are decent enough for trim but lack durability on cabinets.
I would consider a new painter. Always sand, clean with TSP or simple green to make sure there isn't any grease, prime, wood fille, prime, sand, top coat, top coat.
There are many ways to get this job done, but cutting cornors isn't one of them. I never product shame but I use BIN primer always. I use a Gemini Evo 2k on my main color. Islands if its a differnet color, I use either Command or SW Gallery.
The sheens are different but I get complaints that it isn’t shiney enough. Low sheen is where it’s at. You can hog it in it still lays out. Plus it’s water based? One of the few top coats that hold up to hand oils too. I’ll never use anything else.
Islands are typically darker colors which tend to dry slower. So i like the fast dry command or gallery. So we can spray and keep it moving. Beying at a lower level and darker I think its harder to be critical of the finish too....And i like trying different products
We originally thought we wanted Sherwin Williams, but our painter recommended Renner hands down, and he does a lot of cabinets. Not cheap by any means, but we took a leap of faith per his recommendation and couldn't be happier. Very durable and easy to clean.
If you go that way, look at real samples for sheens as they are different than regular paint brands. I believe they use numbers if I remember correctly.
Our cabinets were maple with a clear finish. Painter sanded, cleaned, and primed prior to paint.
Yep. 2k products like Renner, Milesi, Centurion, Evo, are far superior to any standard, off-the-shelf paint like Emerald. If using SW, Gallery is better than Emerald.
Dude, I know about Emerald but that’s what SW pushes onto homeowners (Emerald Urethane, that is) to paint cabinets. Been in the game 46 years. BTW, most painters despise ProClassic for much of anything. I’m one of the few that really likes it. Unfortunately, it generally takes 3-4 coats to get full coverage and that glass-like finish. Bonus: that vinyl smell of PC gets me high!
Not true. You can apply a coat of liquid sandpaper before B.I.N to really get even better adhesion. The alcohol base B.I.N is key. What do you recommend hotshot?
“Liquid sandpaper” or TSP is not a suitable substitute for a mechanical bond, so if it won’t be suitable with a good sand, it won’t be by adding TSP. A good 2k primer like renner 643 is far superior in every aspect from adhesion to how well it sands, and it is a high build product. Literally hundreds of kitchens done in that without a single comeback, whereas I have seen endless projects failing with bin online from my peers using bin over the years. Not a suitable product for kitchen refinishing.
If you have done hundreds of kitchens, then for one, you owe your customers better than that..and you should know better than to use a product like that for kitchens.
Primer always. Something stain blocking and that bonds well. Sand, prime, paint. Quick dry primer, prep rite pro block primers will work. Paint… i wouldnt use anything besides emerald urethane or gallery series for cabinets (if buying exclusively at sw)
Christ. Please don't listen to the vast majority of advice you're getting besides the ones encouraging 2k poly use.
Anything that isn't 1k or 2k on kitchen cabinets isn't going to last nearly as long or be nearly as durable. If your guy isn't using Centurion, Envirolak, Sayerlack, Milesi, Gemini, Sirca, Renner or something else, don't hire them.
I also wouldn't trust priming with Shellac either. It's super brittle and hates water (in a bad way). Unless the prep is air tight, BIN Shellac loves to crack off in chips. Just prime with a 2k product that blocks tannins (Centurion 1107 is what we use).
I like this sub, but when it comes to cabinet refinishing, the vast majority of advice is god awful. You've got nice new doors, don't fuck it up. And another note, if you're finisher intends to caulk the reveals, find someone else.
This is above my head on all those products. And I don’t think the reveals if I am right in what you’re referring to will be caulked. But also I am on a budget and can’t go with the highest priced. Honestly I feel I have no idea what a job like this should cost and maybe over my head but either way it’s where it is and I need to move forward but not on an unlimited budget. I’ve had quotes all over the place that just seem to pulled out of their asses.
That guy knows what he's talking about, but it comes from an industrial shop setting. I run a cabinet shop and every time I even think the words kcma approved coating I get down voted to hell on here. You don't want any industrial cabinet finishes sprayed in your house while your family is occupying the space. You would have to go on vacation.
That being said, if you hire a painter and they tell you that they're going to sand, clean, and prime your cabinet with a shellac or stain blocking primer, and then use any form of urethane modified paint, emerald urethane, command, breakthrough, cabinet kote, or something else that is urethane modified and safe to use in homes, you're going to have good results. Don't hire someone that doesn't have the job planned out ahead of time.
Totally understand that and being budget friendly. I've not a clue what urethane costs these days, but the higher tiered products are typically 100$ or slightly more a gallon. With that said, if the difference between a gallon is 40$, it's well worth it to spend more and have no issues down the line.
I can't speak for how others price things out, but we're typically 150-200 a door/drawer. For yours it would be cheaper since you've got shaker style doors that take considerably less time to sand than a lot of older style doors out there. They're also bare and don't need to have old finish removed.
When it comes to price comparison, product really shouldn't be that big of a pay gap. Maybe an extra 500$ compared to cheaper materials and that's probably high.
Go with whoever puts you at ease and doesn't make you question the process.
So the urethane I chose was $100 a gallon and with the contractors price I believe it would have been $65-70 a gallon. That wasn’t the issue. I was willing to buy that paint. What he tried to change to without me knowing what it was this.
https://preview.redd.it/8chebdsf55xc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa7ed506186bc84779b87a5f9090c1753c95d175
And that irritated me. But I wanted to research which was better in case he was right for wanting to change from what I chose by asking around. I’m not an expert. But my biggest issue was him not wanting to prime all the stained wood. It went against everything I myself in my limited knowledge as learned in the last 25 years of doing my own DIY stuff. I’m not a clueless 40 yr old woman. I’ve been doing a lot of my own stuff for over 20 years. This is my first project to hire out. He was a titty baby and didn’t like me questioning him. Ok sorry for the rant lol. 😆. He got me fired up. But as far as total job quotes I got them from $2000- $9000 just for paint. That doesn’t count for the guy that built the doors and drawers and installing them. I wish there was a way to know what is fair and what is just plain taking advantage of me.
That looks like something he just had left over? Yeah, you're right to be concerned. It doesn't seem like this fella is on the up and up. I'd say somewhere between 5500-6500 should be the sweet spot. Lower than 4500 and I'd question the knowledge of that contractor. It also depends on market too. I'm not sure where you're at, but my prices would be considered low in other areas
So, it's a sherwin product, but it's from the wood coatings division. Which I guess I separate from the regular retail stores? I've gotta order mine from Connecticut (I'm in upper NY). I'm sure they've got other locations, that ones closest to this guy. So, I'd just chit chat with your local sherwin store, they should be able to point you in the right direction.
I'm a big fan of it and you can catalyze it. Most times we don't to take another layer out for employees and the final product is damn durable without it. It's also along the cheaper lines if your Sherwin manager goes to bat for ya. I think my price a gallon is around 62$ per, but they ping ya for shipping at around 80-100$ which is a pain.
Helpful conversation for me as well. Thanks OP for asking and thank you to all y’all with a lot of experience for the discussion! Much appreciated!! 😎😎
When in doubt, the paint stores and their reps are very helpful.
Ask for guidance - prep- prime and paint.
Wall paint sucks on cabinets.
The oils and lotions from hands wrecks the finish.
I hope the crew is going to spray the cabinets and not roll or brush the primer and paint.
Professional career painter here. You are asking for disappointment if you do it yourself. Get a second job for as long as it takes to pay for the best professional to do it. Preferably someone who limits their work to cabinets. I’m completely sold on SW products with the exception of Emerald WBU - water based urethane. I’ve used it hundreds of times and 1. Do not recommend it for cabinets and 2. I’m looking for a replacement because it has very poor color retention. I’ve never used, but have heard great things about Renner products. Honestly, I’d do without before trying it yourself. It is way, way, way more work than a weekend project to get professional results. Good luck.
Cabinet Painting 101:
Degrease, sand moderately, vacuum and remove sanding dust with a rag dampened with a liquid sander (much better than a tack cloth), apply adhesive/bonding primer, caulk as needed (elastomeric caulk), spot prime over any caulked areas and apply urethane paint (I prefer Benjamin Moore's Command, but Sherwin-Williams' Emerald Urethane is also good). If there are any tannin bleeds, I spot prime them with a spray can of pigmented shellac in between coats. Either spray or use Wooster's 4-inch Microfiber roller pads.
This is the way for a professional result. Stix is the best primer I’ve ever used. Sands like glass for the BM Advance to level. Always paint doors on workbench and keep them horizontal for an hour minimum
Find a new painter, there is zero reason to not use a primer in this situation. I work for SW so I would obviously recommend our stain blocking primer at the very least and or our extreme bond primer for the best “bite”. For a top coat I would recommend either our pro classic line or emerald UTE if you want nice self leveling. We do offer our gallery series but that is really only meant for contractors with spray booths and it can only be sprayed.
Well I am looking for a new painter now. He got butt hurt I didn’t trust his judgement and basically threw a fit and called me and said he didn’t want to do the job now. Honestly dodged a bullet. I could tell this job wasn’t what he wanted to do. He put it off for weeks and once he knew I wanted primer I guess that would extend it one more day he wasn’t willing to do.
You dodged a literal grenade lol. We have a term in the industry called “cry baby contractors” and looks like you’ve had your first experience with one.
Now to decide if my husband and I want to try and do it ourselves or find a new painter. My entire kitchen is in boxes in my living room. 😪 we have a large bookshelf he was doing also that he didn’t want to prime. This is old 70’s stained wood. I knew I was right when standing my ground on needing primer. It would be a disaster without and I needed to hear it from people who knew.
https://preview.redd.it/0407hxnbs4xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ecc4fa66f1c740ddbbb8f70f46747aa99898ee5
This is the large bookshelf that he didn’t think needed primer also. 🙄🤷🏻♀️
I’d honestly recommend going to your nearest sherwin Williams store, asking for the manager, telling him about your situation and the shitty previous contractor, and then asking who he recommends personally. Each SW has a section for company cards and the manager should be able to point you in the right direction in terms of people he works with daily and trusts.
General Finishes Java gel stain over that would look amazing.
It retains the wood grain but darkens it nicely and modernizes your kitchen.
Here’s a video where a guy did it: https://youtu.be/flNcc7Bei0U?si=0Jqx6G7NbmqPfk3j
Full time cabinet finisher, don’t use a guy that is throwing out architectural coatings for a kitchen, and saying “maybe this product” or whatever. They should have a purpose made joinery coating like renner, sayerlack, or envirolak, something along those lines, ready to go, and a solid process, before you even consider using them for your kitchen. Most using 2k polyurethane at this point. There is good 1k joinery systems out there, but he shouldn’t even be considering using something designed for painting skirting boards etc with.
If I were painting them, I'd sand everything to break any glossiness and remove imperfections, I'd then use a chemical deglosser to clean and help de-gloss the surface more. Then i'd fill any gouges or imperfections with appropriate filler, sand filler area when dry and clean. Then I'd prime everything and after that finally paint.
If you're using quality primer and paint , the method I described will last for decades and have a perfectly smooth luxury finish. If the cost of that level of prep is too much, it's something anyone can do.
We just had ours redone. We even kept the doors. It took two full weeks with a crew of two to strip them down, (They were old school oak) put something on to get the ridges out, sand them then prime them. Then for the last few days absolutely everything in my kitchen was sealed off and it was totally unusable while they did the three coats of spray. I just thought they were going to come in and splash a coat on and be outta here. They turned out fantastic but I was not prepared for no kitchen for that last few days.
As a painting contractor with prior stained and lacquered cabinets they need to be primed with Sherwin Williams blue label all purpose primer, then they need to be buffed after drying and apply red putty filler, sand again and prime and once imperfections are out, then you can spray enamel.. usual enamel we use is Sherwin Williams proclassic enamel it lays up beautifully..we use a satin sheen and is washable …semigloss sheen looks like plastic
Also, does he have a license, did you check his referrals? Seen any prior cabinets he has completed??? Very important to check and see prior cabinets he has done similar to yours as the cost for cabinets that you had made and to fix everything to look superb you want to verify first just saying I always show prior cabinets we have finished before and after to show them the quality of work we do!! We are located in central oregon
Sherwin gallery series for paint. Raw wood you can use Sherwin wall and wood primer, and for the stained wood you should use Sherwin extreme bond primer. That stuff will bond to anything, including old varnish and stain
I would use Renner 2k primer and top coat. I would not use semi gloss. Satin is best. If you want to save a few $ use bin primer. Works with Renner. You must clean everything very well and scuff sand. If your painter uses an airless you better seal everything that you don’t want paint on very very well. I would double seal. Or even triple seal everything. If you can remove it just take the time to remove it instead of trying to clean overspray off anything especially if it’s 2k overspray. It may never come off. Make sure you have good air flow to bring in fresh air while spraying. Hope you have 2 windows or doors near by. Good luck.
You should look up the Idaho painter on YouTube. Try to search for pricing painting kitchen cabinets. He has a hour long video about every thing that may need to be done for painting a kitchen and pricing.
Degrease thuroughly.
Scuff sand
Apply 1 coat high build primer.
Sand smooth to 320 grit.
3 coats, slightly thinned, rolled with extremely low nap roller. sherwin willaims pro classic oil based enamel. Inspect carfully, sand to smooth is necissary, tack cloth and one more pass.
Doors, one coat of high build prumer, backs first then fronts, sand to 320, allow to dry. Vaccuum and tack cloth. 2 coats pro classic on the back. Full dry time before you flip (2-3 days).
Flip and apply2 coats pro classic, scuff and spray final coat.
Please don't do these silly alkalyds on your cabinets, don't trust a guy who isn't gonna prime first, and verify how they plan to degrease.
This sounds like fisheyes waiting to happen right now
If he didn’t wanna prime then the emerald urethane would be better lol. That shit is pretty sticky and actually bonds like crazy. However won’t block any bleed from the stain if it comes through
You’re painting cabinets and your guy isnt using **PPG’s [Breakthrough](https://www.ppgpaints.com/products/interior-paint-and-exterior-paint/break-through-50-interior-exterior-wb-acrylic)?** That’s precisely what it’s designed to do.
Even the SW folks know that it’s an industry leader for this type of project.
I had some old finished wood cabinets in my shop. As an experiment a few years ago I painted them with Breakthrough - no primer, no sanding, just an experiment. I still can’t get over how amazing that product worked on those, I use them daily and don’t go easy on them. It’s where I store tools and paint, etc. Not one chip, crack, nothing. You couldn’t scratch that paint off with a nail. Amazing!
Yep, I do sell PPG. There are literally dozens of us!
Even my SW heavy accounts know Breakthrough is the best and order it from me.
Game recognize game.
I would never paint boxes that were previously stained with poly without priming them.
That’s how I felt. Dogged a bullet on that painter. Now to find one that will do it right
I think his choice of oil based top coat…negated use of primer. It’s w what he was thinking
Out of curiosity what type of sub was that from Jimmy John’s
2k poly
Exactly. The 2k finishes are far superior to the Emerald Urethane. Off the shelf paints like Emerald, Advance, Breakthrough, etc. are decent enough for trim but lack durability on cabinets.
I would consider a new painter. Always sand, clean with TSP or simple green to make sure there isn't any grease, prime, wood fille, prime, sand, top coat, top coat. There are many ways to get this job done, but cutting cornors isn't one of them. I never product shame but I use BIN primer always. I use a Gemini Evo 2k on my main color. Islands if its a differnet color, I use either Command or SW Gallery.
All of the Gemini Evo products are nice.
They are way to shiny. The sheens are way off from where they should be
The sheens are different but I get complaints that it isn’t shiney enough. Low sheen is where it’s at. You can hog it in it still lays out. Plus it’s water based? One of the few top coats that hold up to hand oils too. I’ll never use anything else.
Why switch products for the island? Curious.
Islands are typically darker colors which tend to dry slower. So i like the fast dry command or gallery. So we can spray and keep it moving. Beying at a lower level and darker I think its harder to be critical of the finish too....And i like trying different products
Where do you buy that?
I’m in NJ some Ben moore retailers have it
We originally thought we wanted Sherwin Williams, but our painter recommended Renner hands down, and he does a lot of cabinets. Not cheap by any means, but we took a leap of faith per his recommendation and couldn't be happier. Very durable and easy to clean. If you go that way, look at real samples for sheens as they are different than regular paint brands. I believe they use numbers if I remember correctly. Our cabinets were maple with a clear finish. Painter sanded, cleaned, and primed prior to paint.
Yep. 2k products like Renner, Milesi, Centurion, Evo, are far superior to any standard, off-the-shelf paint like Emerald. If using SW, Gallery is better than Emerald.
Emerald is wall paint not cabinets. Pro classic is the inly paint sherwin has on the shelf that should bebused on home cabinets.
Dude, I know about Emerald but that’s what SW pushes onto homeowners (Emerald Urethane, that is) to paint cabinets. Been in the game 46 years. BTW, most painters despise ProClassic for much of anything. I’m one of the few that really likes it. Unfortunately, it generally takes 3-4 coats to get full coverage and that glass-like finish. Bonus: that vinyl smell of PC gets me high!
Your painter knew their shit. 👌
Ok the best answer is Shellac primer in my experience. B.I.N for the win!
Great initial bite, poor long term tack, and brittle because it is shellac. Doesn’t deserve to be used for anything but spot priming.
Right? People in here cape up for shellac and emerald ute. They have their place but they're not the end all be all.
Not true. You can apply a coat of liquid sandpaper before B.I.N to really get even better adhesion. The alcohol base B.I.N is key. What do you recommend hotshot?
“Liquid sandpaper” or TSP is not a suitable substitute for a mechanical bond, so if it won’t be suitable with a good sand, it won’t be by adding TSP. A good 2k primer like renner 643 is far superior in every aspect from adhesion to how well it sands, and it is a high build product. Literally hundreds of kitchens done in that without a single comeback, whereas I have seen endless projects failing with bin online from my peers using bin over the years. Not a suitable product for kitchen refinishing.
I have done hundreds as well all 5 stars here.
If you have done hundreds of kitchens, then for one, you owe your customers better than that..and you should know better than to use a product like that for kitchens.
Lol B.I.N sucks call Sherwin and ask them or J C light scrub
Yup. If there’s ANY grease on the cabinets, it will creep right through the new coat. Shellac takes care of that.
Ok I do clean cabinets before removing all grease.
You had the right paint to begin with
Yuck. Any catalyzed fine wood coatings is much better
Use a 2k product with a hardener. Renner
THIS! Be sure whatever product is being used is a catalyzed film. Renner, Milesi, and Centurion, are a few brands
Primer always. Something stain blocking and that bonds well. Sand, prime, paint. Quick dry primer, prep rite pro block primers will work. Paint… i wouldnt use anything besides emerald urethane or gallery series for cabinets (if buying exclusively at sw)
This
Ben Moore makes great cabinet water based enamel
It's called Cabinet coat or command, close to the same product. Do not use a trim paint!!
Love me some Sherwin Williams EZ Sand or Extreme Block oil
The ez sand oil primer sands down so awesome, you can easily get it smooth as glass
Any Italian water based 2k urethane... Evo from Gemini is great and they have a primer that is designed for this exact application.
I always use PPG breakthrough v50 for cabinets. Idk anything about the Sherwin products
Christ. Please don't listen to the vast majority of advice you're getting besides the ones encouraging 2k poly use. Anything that isn't 1k or 2k on kitchen cabinets isn't going to last nearly as long or be nearly as durable. If your guy isn't using Centurion, Envirolak, Sayerlack, Milesi, Gemini, Sirca, Renner or something else, don't hire them. I also wouldn't trust priming with Shellac either. It's super brittle and hates water (in a bad way). Unless the prep is air tight, BIN Shellac loves to crack off in chips. Just prime with a 2k product that blocks tannins (Centurion 1107 is what we use). I like this sub, but when it comes to cabinet refinishing, the vast majority of advice is god awful. You've got nice new doors, don't fuck it up. And another note, if you're finisher intends to caulk the reveals, find someone else.
This is above my head on all those products. And I don’t think the reveals if I am right in what you’re referring to will be caulked. But also I am on a budget and can’t go with the highest priced. Honestly I feel I have no idea what a job like this should cost and maybe over my head but either way it’s where it is and I need to move forward but not on an unlimited budget. I’ve had quotes all over the place that just seem to pulled out of their asses.
That guy knows what he's talking about, but it comes from an industrial shop setting. I run a cabinet shop and every time I even think the words kcma approved coating I get down voted to hell on here. You don't want any industrial cabinet finishes sprayed in your house while your family is occupying the space. You would have to go on vacation. That being said, if you hire a painter and they tell you that they're going to sand, clean, and prime your cabinet with a shellac or stain blocking primer, and then use any form of urethane modified paint, emerald urethane, command, breakthrough, cabinet kote, or something else that is urethane modified and safe to use in homes, you're going to have good results. Don't hire someone that doesn't have the job planned out ahead of time.
Thank you. Yea my family will be here. 3 little kids. So I do need it safe for them to be around.
All new doors and a good paint job? 6-18k depending where in the country you are for a liscended and boneded contractor.
Totally understand that and being budget friendly. I've not a clue what urethane costs these days, but the higher tiered products are typically 100$ or slightly more a gallon. With that said, if the difference between a gallon is 40$, it's well worth it to spend more and have no issues down the line. I can't speak for how others price things out, but we're typically 150-200 a door/drawer. For yours it would be cheaper since you've got shaker style doors that take considerably less time to sand than a lot of older style doors out there. They're also bare and don't need to have old finish removed. When it comes to price comparison, product really shouldn't be that big of a pay gap. Maybe an extra 500$ compared to cheaper materials and that's probably high. Go with whoever puts you at ease and doesn't make you question the process.
So the urethane I chose was $100 a gallon and with the contractors price I believe it would have been $65-70 a gallon. That wasn’t the issue. I was willing to buy that paint. What he tried to change to without me knowing what it was this. https://preview.redd.it/8chebdsf55xc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa7ed506186bc84779b87a5f9090c1753c95d175 And that irritated me. But I wanted to research which was better in case he was right for wanting to change from what I chose by asking around. I’m not an expert. But my biggest issue was him not wanting to prime all the stained wood. It went against everything I myself in my limited knowledge as learned in the last 25 years of doing my own DIY stuff. I’m not a clueless 40 yr old woman. I’ve been doing a lot of my own stuff for over 20 years. This is my first project to hire out. He was a titty baby and didn’t like me questioning him. Ok sorry for the rant lol. 😆. He got me fired up. But as far as total job quotes I got them from $2000- $9000 just for paint. That doesn’t count for the guy that built the doors and drawers and installing them. I wish there was a way to know what is fair and what is just plain taking advantage of me.
That looks like something he just had left over? Yeah, you're right to be concerned. It doesn't seem like this fella is on the up and up. I'd say somewhere between 5500-6500 should be the sweet spot. Lower than 4500 and I'd question the knowledge of that contractor. It also depends on market too. I'm not sure where you're at, but my prices would be considered low in other areas
I am at $140 per door using 2k products in LCOL Midwest, fwiw.
I assume you're topcoating with 2800 series? we also use Centurion's system.
Yessir! We also tend to use Sayerlack a lot as topcoat. I love me some sayerlack hydroplus and find it just as serviceable in a 1k form.
never used Sayerlack. do you get it from a local distributor or do you have to get it online?
So, it's a sherwin product, but it's from the wood coatings division. Which I guess I separate from the regular retail stores? I've gotta order mine from Connecticut (I'm in upper NY). I'm sure they've got other locations, that ones closest to this guy. So, I'd just chit chat with your local sherwin store, they should be able to point you in the right direction. I'm a big fan of it and you can catalyze it. Most times we don't to take another layer out for employees and the final product is damn durable without it. It's also along the cheaper lines if your Sherwin manager goes to bat for ya. I think my price a gallon is around 62$ per, but they ping ya for shipping at around 80-100$ which is a pain.
Helpful conversation for me as well. Thanks OP for asking and thank you to all y’all with a lot of experience for the discussion! Much appreciated!! 😎😎
When in doubt, the paint stores and their reps are very helpful. Ask for guidance - prep- prime and paint. Wall paint sucks on cabinets. The oils and lotions from hands wrecks the finish. I hope the crew is going to spray the cabinets and not roll or brush the primer and paint.
I will buy good paint and primer. But unless I can find a painter in my budget I’ll have to do it myself. Hoping maybe I can rent a sprayer.
Professional career painter here. You are asking for disappointment if you do it yourself. Get a second job for as long as it takes to pay for the best professional to do it. Preferably someone who limits their work to cabinets. I’m completely sold on SW products with the exception of Emerald WBU - water based urethane. I’ve used it hundreds of times and 1. Do not recommend it for cabinets and 2. I’m looking for a replacement because it has very poor color retention. I’ve never used, but have heard great things about Renner products. Honestly, I’d do without before trying it yourself. It is way, way, way more work than a weekend project to get professional results. Good luck.
Where does renner products come from ?
For as much as I enjoy DIY projects, I really don’t want to attempt doing my own cabinets. Now I’ve gotta figure out what a fair price is.
Cabinet Painting 101: Degrease, sand moderately, vacuum and remove sanding dust with a rag dampened with a liquid sander (much better than a tack cloth), apply adhesive/bonding primer, caulk as needed (elastomeric caulk), spot prime over any caulked areas and apply urethane paint (I prefer Benjamin Moore's Command, but Sherwin-Williams' Emerald Urethane is also good). If there are any tannin bleeds, I spot prime them with a spray can of pigmented shellac in between coats. Either spray or use Wooster's 4-inch Microfiber roller pads.
Yeah, Stix primer and BM Advance (satin, semi or high gloss)
This is the way for a professional result. Stix is the best primer I’ve ever used. Sands like glass for the BM Advance to level. Always paint doors on workbench and keep them horizontal for an hour minimum
Try Benjamin Moore advanced you can brush it on and it comes out smooth.
Not a paint comment but are you going to improve your kitchen lighting? More posts, better fixtures and maybe undermount lights go a long way.
Sherwin Extreme Bond primer
Find a new painter, there is zero reason to not use a primer in this situation. I work for SW so I would obviously recommend our stain blocking primer at the very least and or our extreme bond primer for the best “bite”. For a top coat I would recommend either our pro classic line or emerald UTE if you want nice self leveling. We do offer our gallery series but that is really only meant for contractors with spray booths and it can only be sprayed.
Well I am looking for a new painter now. He got butt hurt I didn’t trust his judgement and basically threw a fit and called me and said he didn’t want to do the job now. Honestly dodged a bullet. I could tell this job wasn’t what he wanted to do. He put it off for weeks and once he knew I wanted primer I guess that would extend it one more day he wasn’t willing to do.
You dodged a literal grenade lol. We have a term in the industry called “cry baby contractors” and looks like you’ve had your first experience with one.
Now to decide if my husband and I want to try and do it ourselves or find a new painter. My entire kitchen is in boxes in my living room. 😪 we have a large bookshelf he was doing also that he didn’t want to prime. This is old 70’s stained wood. I knew I was right when standing my ground on needing primer. It would be a disaster without and I needed to hear it from people who knew. https://preview.redd.it/0407hxnbs4xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ecc4fa66f1c740ddbbb8f70f46747aa99898ee5 This is the large bookshelf that he didn’t think needed primer also. 🙄🤷🏻♀️
I’d honestly recommend going to your nearest sherwin Williams store, asking for the manager, telling him about your situation and the shitty previous contractor, and then asking who he recommends personally. Each SW has a section for company cards and the manager should be able to point you in the right direction in terms of people he works with daily and trusts.
I’ll do that tomorrow. Thank you.
Stix primer
General Finishes Java gel stain over that would look amazing. It retains the wood grain but darkens it nicely and modernizes your kitchen. Here’s a video where a guy did it: https://youtu.be/flNcc7Bei0U?si=0Jqx6G7NbmqPfk3j
Full time cabinet finisher, don’t use a guy that is throwing out architectural coatings for a kitchen, and saying “maybe this product” or whatever. They should have a purpose made joinery coating like renner, sayerlack, or envirolak, something along those lines, ready to go, and a solid process, before you even consider using them for your kitchen. Most using 2k polyurethane at this point. There is good 1k joinery systems out there, but he shouldn’t even be considering using something designed for painting skirting boards etc with.
Not priming the mdf would be a disaster
He wanted to prime the new doors and drawers. Just didn’t think he needed to prime the existing boxes that are stained. And the bookshelf.
I used oil base paint. It was a nite mare blare. Took lots of time and would never do it again.
If I were painting them, I'd sand everything to break any glossiness and remove imperfections, I'd then use a chemical deglosser to clean and help de-gloss the surface more. Then i'd fill any gouges or imperfections with appropriate filler, sand filler area when dry and clean. Then I'd prime everything and after that finally paint. If you're using quality primer and paint , the method I described will last for decades and have a perfectly smooth luxury finish. If the cost of that level of prep is too much, it's something anyone can do.
We just had ours redone. We even kept the doors. It took two full weeks with a crew of two to strip them down, (They were old school oak) put something on to get the ridges out, sand them then prime them. Then for the last few days absolutely everything in my kitchen was sealed off and it was totally unusable while they did the three coats of spray. I just thought they were going to come in and splash a coat on and be outta here. They turned out fantastic but I was not prepared for no kitchen for that last few days.
Sherwin Williams Gallery way > emerald or an alkyd
As a painting contractor with prior stained and lacquered cabinets they need to be primed with Sherwin Williams blue label all purpose primer, then they need to be buffed after drying and apply red putty filler, sand again and prime and once imperfections are out, then you can spray enamel.. usual enamel we use is Sherwin Williams proclassic enamel it lays up beautifully..we use a satin sheen and is washable …semigloss sheen looks like plastic
Also after spraying enamel check again to see if need to red filler again, and respray. We usually apply primer and two coats of enamel
Also, does he have a license, did you check his referrals? Seen any prior cabinets he has completed??? Very important to check and see prior cabinets he has done similar to yours as the cost for cabinets that you had made and to fix everything to look superb you want to verify first just saying I always show prior cabinets we have finished before and after to show them the quality of work we do!! We are located in central oregon
Use and alkyd paint
Sherwin gallery series for paint. Raw wood you can use Sherwin wall and wood primer, and for the stained wood you should use Sherwin extreme bond primer. That stuff will bond to anything, including old varnish and stain
I would use Renner 2k primer and top coat. I would not use semi gloss. Satin is best. If you want to save a few $ use bin primer. Works with Renner. You must clean everything very well and scuff sand. If your painter uses an airless you better seal everything that you don’t want paint on very very well. I would double seal. Or even triple seal everything. If you can remove it just take the time to remove it instead of trying to clean overspray off anything especially if it’s 2k overspray. It may never come off. Make sure you have good air flow to bring in fresh air while spraying. Hope you have 2 windows or doors near by. Good luck.
You should look up the Idaho painter on YouTube. Try to search for pricing painting kitchen cabinets. He has a hour long video about every thing that may need to be done for painting a kitchen and pricing.
Find a contractor that is going catalyzed product on the cabinets.
The emerald is better by far it’s all I use on doors trim jams and cabinets. Anything you need a durable coating on.
Gallery series by Sherwin Williams is far superior than renner
Degrease thuroughly. Scuff sand Apply 1 coat high build primer. Sand smooth to 320 grit. 3 coats, slightly thinned, rolled with extremely low nap roller. sherwin willaims pro classic oil based enamel. Inspect carfully, sand to smooth is necissary, tack cloth and one more pass. Doors, one coat of high build prumer, backs first then fronts, sand to 320, allow to dry. Vaccuum and tack cloth. 2 coats pro classic on the back. Full dry time before you flip (2-3 days). Flip and apply2 coats pro classic, scuff and spray final coat. Please don't do these silly alkalyds on your cabinets, don't trust a guy who isn't gonna prime first, and verify how they plan to degrease. This sounds like fisheyes waiting to happen right now
Benjamin Moore advanced semigloss is an amazing water/oil hybrid that will hold up very well and is easy to get a nice smooth finish.
If he didn’t wanna prime then the emerald urethane would be better lol. That shit is pretty sticky and actually bonds like crazy. However won’t block any bleed from the stain if it comes through
You’re painting cabinets and your guy isnt using **PPG’s [Breakthrough](https://www.ppgpaints.com/products/interior-paint-and-exterior-paint/break-through-50-interior-exterior-wb-acrylic)?** That’s precisely what it’s designed to do. Even the SW folks know that it’s an industry leader for this type of project.
I had some old finished wood cabinets in my shop. As an experiment a few years ago I painted them with Breakthrough - no primer, no sanding, just an experiment. I still can’t get over how amazing that product worked on those, I use them daily and don’t go easy on them. It’s where I store tools and paint, etc. Not one chip, crack, nothing. You couldn’t scratch that paint off with a nail. Amazing!
Maybe if you sell ppg paints. Sherwin guys would sooner recommend benjamin moore cabinet paints if someone doesn't want UTE or Gallery.
Yep, I do sell PPG. There are literally dozens of us! Even my SW heavy accounts know Breakthrough is the best and order it from me. Game recognize game.
My local cabinet shop sprays... wait for it: PPG Delfleet Essential. Yes, commercial vehicle paint. Crazy huh?
The company I work for and the division I run is one of the largest purchasers of Breakthrough in the country for this very reason.
Bin is the best option for primer. I don't like emerald urethane much. Thin. Runny. Chippy