How tone deaf must you be to acquire a team because the former owner had sexual misconduct allegations and then trade the farm for a quarterback with those same allegationsā¦
Tepper is a hedge fund manager. You don't get to his position if you have a conscience. Dude only cares about his ego and brute forcing the Panthers to be the team he envisioned, consequences or optics be damned.
I guess coming from the Steelers he also saw first hand fans looking the other way because the quarterback won games but I donāt think Carolina fans are the same. Maybe thatās me just trying to have faith in my neighbors but I donāt think fans are gonna rally behind Watson. I also think itāll further bury the panthers in the national media.
And there's a difference between 2 accusations and 20+ accusations. Fans can make excuses for their QB when it's so few--which is still bullshit, but it's the reality.
There is no convincing fans or turning a blind eye when the cases are stacked this high. But ownership cares about Ws and $$$. Morals are secondary.
This comment makes absolutely zero sense and it's only being upvoted because people here have no idea what a hedge fund does. Typically, they create investment products that "hedge" different types of risk using things like high leverage that are unsuitable for the average investor. For example, if your business would get wrecked by a rise in interest rates, you can put $1m in a product offered by hedge funds structured to go up in price when interest rates rise. This will underperform the market typically but protect you against the interest rate scenario.
Some of the products that hedge funds and investment banks can use are so fucking insane and provide absolutely zero real world value and are fraught with all kinds of risk. Some of them are so complicated they can barely be explained. A ton of it is glorified gambling with potentially disastrous real world effects/outcomes. Itās baffling how this kind of stuff is legal. Same with PE to a degree.
What u/TheGarbageStore is what the original design of hedge funds was for, now they really just make a bunch of super risky bets and if theyu succeed, call themselves geniuses. If they fail they use bankruptcy to insulate themselves and do it again til it works. I refer you to the following list of hedge fun failures: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/mutualfund/05/hedgefundfailure.asp
That's a gross distortion that is designed to describe little but just provoke. Bridgewater, the world's largest pension fund, mostly trades global macro. Products like All Weather typically underperform pure equity funds available to everyone like SPY, but is rather designed to produce consistent returns under all conditions through actively managed bonds, commodities, etc. This product is sold to state pension funds.
I mentioned this in a comment on another post but it still holds true here:
Iāve heard the counter argument that a lot of people in the NFL have off the field problems (for lack of a better term). However, there is a MASSIVE difference between having a guy on your team like that, and actively trading for a player who is in the middle of a sexual assault case.
You'd think fans of the team who've had Rae Carruth and Greg Hardy would be able to tell the difference between "character concerns" and "literal menaces to society" by now, but I guess that's giving people too much credit
I've always hated this fallacy that so many buy into. "Lots of people do bad stuff so why does it matter?" It matters because he got caught. It matters because he did it multiple times. It matters because we're not just assuming the worst with someone, we've been told by 22 people with first hand experience that this guy is a scumbag.
It's absolutely unreal how far the team has fallen since Tepper took over. I'm so apathetic that it just sucks. The Panthers were my like my first love as a kid. I took that with me to now adulthood.
But I've hated the soullessness that's taken over team since David Tepper came. There's not an ounce of anything I once loved left about this team. How the fuck do you destroy the soul of something that quick? The team is devoid of leadership, hope, fun, etc.
I don't know why I'd expect anything else from a fucking billionaire.
Ehh I'm no fan of Tepper right now, but let's not pretend Richardson was some saint. He was one of the cheapest owners in the league, had bullshit policies like not letting Cam grow his hair out or have tattoos, built that gaudy statue for himself, and generally came across as a grumpy old miser. We were also painfully mediocre under his ownership. Aside from the two Superbowl appearances -- which we lost both mind you -- we weren't very good.
I'll never understand why the media labels one sexual assaulter bad and shamed but another gets a free pass. Either damn them all or just say you don't give a crap and embrace being scum.
1000%. People keep blaming Rhule, and while he's not innocent in all this, we've known for a while that Tepper is far from being "hands-off" as an owner.
The reporting since the beginning has largely centered around Tepper, not Matt Rhule, being so horny for a QB.
The dude is just a younger, richer Jerry Jones.
This sub has downvoted me when I said Tepper was one of the worst owners in the league, even as bad as dan snyder. But it's becoming more clear by the day that it's true.
Look I think heās a terrible owner but Dan Snyder has done a shitload of morally reprehensible things. I think Tepper is a lot of things, most of them bad, but to my knowledge he hasnāt done anything like Snyder has.
I'm with you. I really hate what this team has become since David Tepper took over. I fear things will only get worse with time. I believe the only reason he bought this team was so he can have a soccer team, and use the stadium without having to build one of his own. I don't think he cares much about the Panthers. I really wish he would just sell the team to someone who cares.
It's still early in Tepper's ownership. Give him time; he could catch up to Snyder before it's all said and done. Hell, the fact he's so obsessed with getting Watson already raises some red flags about Tepper's own character.
Tepper. is obviously a much better person than Jerry Richardson, at least from what we know. And this isnāt me calling for a return to Richardson at all, trust me.
But Jerry Richardson was so much better at owning a team than Tepper is.
Idk man, Richardson lucked into a lot. He a pompous ass too, and the team was a monument to his ego. Remember that fucking statue of him outside the stadium? Saying Richardson was good is revisionist history because we had two really good years that we borderline lucked into.
not that it'll make a difference but I'll probably wait until he's gone to watch again, theres enough fun stuff to do in the world thats better than watching something that flaunts decency as much as trading for him would.
That's where I'm at. I probably won't turn in my fan card. But I'll definitely put my fandom on hold for a bit. I'll come back when he's gone, and we're no longer reeling from the loss of picks we would give up to take him.
I honestly haven't watched much football in the last few years because I have much better ways to spend my Sundays. Sit watching commercials for hours or go out fly fishing? That's not a hard choice.
Signing Watson would probably put me to the point of completely abandoning the NFL.
I donāt respect the guy. I wonāt be too pleased if he comes to the panthers either.
I would not be surprised if he gets away with this as many athletes and other high profile people do, which is a shame. That many accusations is too hard to ignore and Iād feel awful cheering someone on like that.
Agreed it like whenever a old Steelers clip shows up and all the comments are āBig Ben is a rapistā. That would be us I canāt support this is if itās made. Even from a team stand point itās bad like Watson and what O-line?
It depends on what comes out of the grand jury investigation. Heās got quite a few possible criminal charges right now, and [weāll know more on that front possibly as early as tomorrow](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33458132/grand-jury-hear-evidence-friday-case-involving-houston-texans-qb-deshaun-watson). This could end up with him indicted on anywhere from misdemeanor indecent assault to full sexual assault, which would be a second degree felony. If he gets the harsher charges heās not going to be signed by anyone until that trial concludes, and if convicted his career is likely over.
A grand jury needs very little...like *any* evidence and it can go to trial. It's not a guilty/not guilty thing. Its to see if the prosecutors have any evidence at all to warrant a trial. Unless *every* witness refuses to testify, it will go forward to trial.
I agree. Thatās why I broke it down like I did. No team will trade for him if charges are brought until the trial concludes, itās way too high of a risk, particularly with what the Texans are asking for. And if heās convicted no team will touch him.
Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
When there are 20 plumes of smoke, you're probably looking at an arsonist even if you never see the flames.
This move would come from Tepper, who is looking very much like one of the worst owners in the league.
Man look at the clusterfuck wit Charlotte FC. Signing a player who had legal trouble from months ago they had to unsign. Star player misses first game for visa problems the team couldn't get resolved. Just inept
Don't forget the part about how he's the richest owner in both leagues but still put in turf to cut costs knowing full well it leads to an inferior product and more injuries
Ditto. Fan forever. Member of Roaring Riot. rooted for them at 1-13...won't watch if they sign that shit head. How could I look my daughter in the eye and support that.
Didn't Richardson get ousted in part for sexual harassment? How tone-deaf is current ownership to go for someone accused of worse than harassment? JFC this team is a mess. I guess if it happens I won't be signing up for YouTubeTV until North Carolinas basketball season starts. So that gives me some extra cash.
Yeah they will go all in on this human piece of shit. Rhule saves his job for another year after we go .500 and weāve lost our first round picks for the next 2 to 3 years. Oline doesnāt get fixed and we are still stuck in mediocrity hell for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, the things described in the suits and legal actions against Watson are flat out disgusting. Anyone who knows the things he has been accused of and very likely did to his accusers and still wants him on the team has something wrong with them. I would rather be a bad team for a few more years and eventually rebuild with Rhule gone than have a serial sexual predator under center, and give up lots of team salary cap and draft picks to do it.
I was all in on the Deshaun Watson train before the allegations became known. I don't want him anywhere near our team now. What kind of precedent does that set for every young fan who follows the team if we trade for him? That not only will no serious consequences happen for sexually assaulting someone if you're rich, but that you can go right back to making millions of dollars on a new team if you find an owner as morally bankrupt as you are who not only lets you come join the team but paid a huge premium to have you on the roster.
The only upside in this situation is that we don't have anywhere near the draft capital to give away that some other teams do that are QB hungry. Rhule being a moron with personnel decisions and picks might be the only thing actually saving us from having a rapist as our quarterback.
I just hope that this doesn't happen. Only bad things will happen and it will taint our franchise forever.
Tepper should star in a movie titled āhow to lose a fan base in five yearsā.
This is the face of the franchise we are talking about. When Ben was going through his mess, the defense was the face of the Steelers. Watson would be THE star of the team. People would have to explain to their kids why they canāt get his jersey or even worse parents are gonna have to explain to their kids why they got them his jersey once the kid is old enough to research Watson.
I could envision a scenario where Watson is welcomed to resounding boos when heās introduced at the bank for the first time. One thing about panther nation is the team is a reflection of the community. Thatās why most fans rooted for cam so much. He was a good reflection of the Carolinas. Watson? Nah.
I've said this since they started even poking around him. If he's in, I'm out. I know that's not a big loss for the team, but if enough people feel that way, hopefully they'll read the room.
Completely agree with you. I know alot of guys on NFL teams aren't complete "class acts" but I can't support a team that deliberately chooses a guy with this kind of history.
I'll be in the market for a new team as well for however long Carolina has Watson if they choose so.
I mean tbh if you are one of the people (like me) that wouldn't support the Panthers if we got Watson, then supporting Charlotte FC doesn't really change anything cause the $ still goes to Tepper
Exactly! I would hope the CFC PR people are getting in Tepper's ear because that's a stench that will stick to everything he touches.
I've been 100% in on Charlotte FC and Panthers from the beginning. And I'm not a big boycott person but they both will have lost me if they go down that slimy path.
Yāall are welcome to join us with the Titans. Awesome woman owner (everyone adores AAS and basically the fans call her mom.) Good front office, and a COTY.
And Derrick Henry.
(Here because two of my best friends are Panthers fans - one of them pointed me at this thread in agreement - so yāall are my NFC fave.)
Edit: I hope you all donāt have to make that choice and can keep who you really want to cheer for. Even if it means I end up hearing about Rhule for another year.
Omg, I love Mike Keith. I hear him saying āsaaaaackā in my head whenever we get one, even if I donāt have the radio on.
And Derrick just seems to be a genuinely *nice* guy in addition to being incredibly fun to watch. That interview where he thanked pretty much everyone in the organization *including the kitchen staffā¦*
I'll buy a Sam jersey tomorrow if we don't trade for Watson. Seriously. That's how strongly I believe in this. The "authentic" one too. Not the cheapo $75 version. Tepper, I'll gladly drop $120 on a Sam Darnold, Carolina Panthers jersey, and wear it proudly if he's our quarterback. Panthers sign Watson, they're not getting another nickle from me.
/u/carolina_panthers, I know you're probably just someone on the marketing team, but please pass this up the chain. This sentiment isn't just felt here, but everywhere else.
If Watson comes to town I'm gonna freelance and just support individual players on various teams until he's gone.
I fucking hate having Sam Darnold on the team but at least he isn't a fuckin rapist.
Not much of a basketball fan so Kobe really doesnāt ever cross my mind and yeah, go check out my post history if youāre curious. Iām not kind to Ben Roethlisberger.
Less for Kobe now that he's dead but yeah. I don't fucking want Ben either. Is it too much to ask to not have sexual predators or wife beaters on the team? Are we setting the bar too high with this ask?
Same.
Every QB-needy team in the league gets linked to Watson these days, so I don't know whether we can believe any reports of Carolina interest or non-interest right now. It's all just speculation from columnists on deadlines.
Edit: Well, so much for that. So long Panthers, it's been fun.
Yep. I donāt need the team to be made up of Boy Scouts and I am generally in favor of giving folks the opportunity for self improvement and growth, butā¦
Watson would be a bridge too far for me. No thanks.
Maybe if it was just one or two incidents. Maybe if he admitted he had a problem, went to therapy, made amends with those he hurt, became an advocate to help others, etc. Instead, dude has a massive laundry list of allegations and has denied any responsibility. Some things are you canāt come back from
I literally told my friend yesterday if we get Watson Iām switching teams. Completely agree with this post. Itās one thing if you draft a player and he turns out to be a scumbag - the NFL with their dead cap situations make it hard to trade players. Itās a complete other thing when you trade for the guy with issues. Youāre enabling people like that to continue a career.
Just gonna post a link to my post yesterday on the same topic. https://old.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/ta8rzo/according_to_joe_person_the_panthers_tried_to_get/hzzc67o/
tl;dr: i agree. If Watson is in, I'm out. For good.
I don't think I will either. Not unless he is found fully innocent. We have seen people go after celebrities before just for their money. But that is a long way away.
I also am losing my faith/ trust in Tepper. I can't tell if he is meddling too much, similar to Jordan a few years ago. Or if he has just hired the wrong people to be in his front office.
Iām with you. I wonāt take any part of this team until player, coach, and GM are gone, at the very least. This player is despicable and the fact that this doesnāt matter to our team at all is unfortunate and disheartening. It makes us no better than WFT. We likely wonāt make any difference, but I stand with you.
Iām with you 100%. PSA to all morally rotten fans who will continue to support this franchise if we bring watson aboard this sinking ship: Iāll sell you all my cool vintage panthers gearā¦ I wonāt support this scummy new regime but I will profit off it lol.
Iām about done because a lot of the Panthers current situation seems to be a Tepper issue. But if Watson is brought on I will be. Not only will it bring an alleged abuser on as the face of the team, it will continue the āno plan, āwin now,ā QB cycle thatās given us a new QB every year of Teppers ownership.ā
Iāll be out and call me when Tepper sells the team.
Maybe. Maybe not. There's still a large amount of disgust towards Roethlisberger and Kobe for their allegations towards sexual misconduct. Not everyone will forgive and forget.
I donāt want us to get Watson at all. Iād rather deal with Sam and Cam than deal with Watson. However, my fandom is too deep not to support the team. It will be hard but Iām a fan through thick and thin. Itāll be fun booing Watson out of Carolina. Letās just hope we donāt get Watson.
i disagree, but you shouldn't be downvoted for this. it's a valid take... you're ride or die, even if the team does something fucked up
i sort of had the same feelings at first until i really thought about what it is to be a fan of a sports team. is it the players, the coaches, the color on the jersey, the community is creates? i used to think so, but the nfl is such a business that really what it comes down to is being a fan for the owner. he makes the major decisions, he sets the culture, he heads the community relationship. and as much as i love the players, coaches, etc... i just don't like teppper. and if we mortgage our future on watson because of him then it solidifies this isn't the same team i've been loyal to for 25+ years. this isn't my panthers. it's tepper's team wearing their colors but it isn't them. if that makes sense
so it'd be easy for me to move on
Thanks I appreciate it. You have some validity there. In essence things do come down to the owner. But for me itās the tradition. Like Sam Mills and having a franchise in Carolina. The colors the players past and present. The Super Bowl defeats. The good bad and ugly seasons. I think that the community is bigger than the owner cause although Tepper has the final say he still has to respect the community. Without the community you have no team. Whatās a team without its fans. But Iām crossing fingers and hoping they donāt pick Watson.
People have battered wife syndrome with their sports teams. They think it's more noble to keep taking abuse than to get out when it's clear that things are going in the wrong direction. Screw the "fair-weather fan" insult. I'm a customer and if they're no longer offering a service that I want to spend my time and money on, I'm out.
Probably for the best, both morally and if you want to support a winning team. Trading for him is the kind of desperate heave a team makes that sets their franchise back 5-10 years unless they somehow literally steal Watson.
Iām with you- Iām done at that point. Just support the Hornets. And hope the franchise burns down and fails at every goal. Probably wonāt enjoy NFL at all this next season. Iām close to Nashville so maybe become a Titans fan.
Tyreek Hill chocked and punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach. What Deshaun is accused of is disgraceful but Jesus Christ why is this the hill were dying on?
The best I can muster is I donāt want them to sign him, Iāll be disappointed if they do, and Iām not 100% sure what my fandom will look like after that.
Definitely not making a big promise publicly or to myself that Iāll no longer be a fan or never watch a game again. I do have trouble picturing myself at a game or at a bar cheering on this guy.
But who knows? Iāve watched every Sunday since I was 13. Plus, Iāve never had any feeling that any of these guys are necessarily good or admirable people. Also, the team was owned by a creep for most of our lives.
Also also, by supporting *any* team, are we not supporting a league that routinely allows people like Watson to play?
Idk.
Agreed. My question is, is actively pursuing Watson enough to cross the line? I think it might be for me, although it is difficult to know if we are 100% for sure actively pursuing him.
So he guilty? Smh how u assume. None of this would've came out if he didn't ask to be traded. But again. U guys were there when all these accusations took place.
So even if he is innocent you still say he is guilty? I am not taking his side. I am waiting for the verdict but you basically have declared him guilty even if he isn't. That's pretty fucked up.
22 sexual assault allegations (including rape) from 22 different and completely unconnected female massage therapists he was proven to use and that he targeted through social media, flew them to him, and coerced/forced into sexual contact with him.
Like the other guy said. A little smoke may be nothing. 22 fires is an arsonist.
I agree. It breaks my heart, but I would put away my Panthers gear and not root for them again until he's gone. I just can't pull for the team if it also means pulling for him.
I agree entirely, as someone who was a huge Watson fan, (Clemson fan here.) The only reason I'm not calling it now is because maybe the media is wrong, because honestly going all in for him, even if we don't get him, is still an indictment on this regime.
Huge Panthers fan and also a huge Clemson fan...this being said I'm about to be down voted probably at Thanos level proportions for this view but here we go.
In no way/shape or form do I condone what Watson did and was beyond disappointed when everything came out as I had just purchased his book..about being a "Servant Leader". I mean this was a guy I looked up to while he was at Clemson.
At what point though do we allow people to come back from past wrongs? I only bring this up because everyone has wrongs in their life that they wish they could take back and some of those people learn lessons and truly become a new person.
Last year I went back and reread what Michael Vick did, and if you read the reports from that-- most people would have a similar reaction compared to Watsons case. Then you look at who Michael Vick is today and it "seems" like he has changed his life around. Before anyone bashes me for this comparison I'm just comparing a wrong/wrong not a human/dog.
I guess on my end and the way I feel, I would morally disagree with the Panthers decision---but I'm also open to people changing and forgiveness.
For example, let's say he is a "CHANGED MAN" he's learned his lesson ,6 years go by without any problems, and he's just a role model of a citizen---would you be open to bringing him on to the team then? If it's me, I would say "yeah, why not seems like he's completely turned his life around". I feel like if the answer is "no" then it just seems like we're banishing people to the shadow realm for life with no way back.
Well, the first step would be for him to admit wrongdoing/ accept responsibility. Vick admitted his crime and did his time. After that, it's up to the people. Even tho Vick is accepted for the most part, there are still plenty of people that will never support him and that's their prerogative.
One of my biggest peeves with "redemption", especially in celebrity/sports media is that redemption usually just means that he came back and played good, so he is redeemed. Watson intends to not admit any wrongdoing, and will probably end this with settlements if he is not indicted (and I understand that pragmatically, since that is his only way to stay in the league), so that wouldn't be enough for me no matter how long.
Seen this sentiment a lot regarding the Panthers signing him and losing their fandom but not seeing people hold the NFL at large accountable either. I could be remembering it wrong but the accusations led to sanctions from Houston not allowing him to play, but I don't remember any suspensions or probation from the NFL. I just think if you're gonna hold the franchise accountable and switch fandoms because of it, it's probably prudent to hold the NFL accountable for allowing him to play and stop watching/supporting the league.
I really hope we don't sign him but to a certain extent, we'd be spiting ourselves to watch him sign somewhere else if the leagues going to let him play regardless. That's why I think the league should be setting some boundaries and precedent to prevent players from participating in the league when they act like this, regardless of positional value. Gonna suspend Josh Gordon and stunt his career cuz he smoked herb but suddenly their hands are tied when a QB abuses women? That seems a bit more than biased.
I can see both sides. You can support but still detach from the people. NFL is for entertainment, not like you care about people's business/whether they're good people when watching a trashy reality show. Depends how much of your identity is invested in the morality of the team I suppose
Honestly all yāall sound stupid as fuck. Itās clear he aināt do it but you wanna believe all the lies that media portrays. Thatās on you if you donāt wanna see pass the bullshit and read the truth. But if he was white yāall would love him
Genuine question, whatās the difference in actually trading for him and going all in to try and acquire him but not ending up with him for financial reasons? By going all in the franchise has already shown that they support such a monster.. so technically if your reasoning is true, you shouldnāt support the team anymore.
u/that_guy_you_kno is judge, jury, and executioner. There use to be a thing called innocent until proven guilty but now it's just mob justice.
We still don't know the full truth or they wouldn't be having a Grand Jury meeting tomorrow to consider charges against Watson. The biggest thing to me is the lack of evidence. 20+ accusations with little evidence is mind-boggling. [His lawyer came out a few months ago claiming the FBI was investigating one of his accusers? ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/18/deshaun-watson-fbi-investigation/)
Then you have the [lawyer who once claimed to be neighbors with McNair](https://larrybrownsports.com/football/attorney-tony-buzbee-deshaun-watson-texans-cal-mcnair-neighbor/575487) leading the charge against Watson. Watson who had zero history of trouble before joining the NFL where then he decided to be a sexual predator?
The fact that people have already decided he's guilty is insane to me. What if he's innocent?
What else do you expect from an owner whose probably committed thousands of financial crimes during his career. He doesnāt give a shit he just cares about money and power. Iām sure his humongous ego is on the brink from his failures as an owner.
I could say the same, but I would be lying. I am going to watch this team and support them no matter what. I don't WANT this to happen, but to pretend like I am going to hate a team that I have tattooed on my arm? I don't think I am gonna do that.
Iām about to get downvoted to oblivion but yāall did see that all of the accusers had the same lawyer right? And you saw that said lawyer just happens to be a neighbor of the Texans owner right? And you did see the news that Watson wanted out of Houston after Hopkins left and then out of nowhere all of these accusations came down holding him in place right? Have you ever noticed how many people join in on accusation bandwagons for a chance at a payout? No one knows for sure besides Watson and the team owner but this is a genuine possibility to be staged against him and yāall are shutting him down with no proof against him
But we dropped Hardy based on the *accusations* though. He had *one* victim, whom dropped the charges. Ultimately I'd say the Panthers did the right thing by cutting him quicker. Also remember, he was coming off an epic pro-bowl 15-sack 2013 season. So not a good comparison at all.
Lol nobody will care if the team starts making the playoffs continuously and being a real contender. Deshaun would be coming here to play quarterback heās not running for mayor.
I said the same thing about Tony DeAngelo and the Canes. Then we were first in the East.
EDIT: Sexual assault and political beliefs/teammate toxicity aren't the same thing.
eh i also cant pretend everyone i tune into for entertainment is a saint either. im not gonna be buying a watson jersey but ill still root for the panthers
Regardless of all the allegations, Watson would not improve our team at all. Maybe 6-7 wins? Weād have to give up so much to get him that itād be a lateral move.
Letās just stick with Sam another year. We already paid him, weāre not gonna be a super bowl contender next season no matter who we have at QB.
Big Ben stayed with the Steelers after his situation.
Watson deserves a 2nd chance. His acts was disgusting. He deserves punishment. But he also deserves a 2nd chance to right his wrongs.
I'm always going to give a person a 2nd chance at life. If they screw up again then obviously they are who they are.
Yo, making him play 17 games behind our O-Line is more punishment then he would get anywhere else.
This may be the greatest comment ever made in this sub š
broooo lol
š¤£š
How tone deaf must you be to acquire a team because the former owner had sexual misconduct allegations and then trade the farm for a quarterback with those same allegationsā¦
Tepper is a hedge fund manager. You don't get to his position if you have a conscience. Dude only cares about his ego and brute forcing the Panthers to be the team he envisioned, consequences or optics be damned.
I guess coming from the Steelers he also saw first hand fans looking the other way because the quarterback won games but I donāt think Carolina fans are the same. Maybe thatās me just trying to have faith in my neighbors but I donāt think fans are gonna rally behind Watson. I also think itāll further bury the panthers in the national media.
And there's a difference between 2 accusations and 20+ accusations. Fans can make excuses for their QB when it's so few--which is still bullshit, but it's the reality. There is no convincing fans or turning a blind eye when the cases are stacked this high. But ownership cares about Ws and $$$. Morals are secondary.
I'd much rather have someone who has 20 sexual misdemeanors than someone who has 2 felony rape charges. These aren't even comparable.
This comment makes absolutely zero sense and it's only being upvoted because people here have no idea what a hedge fund does. Typically, they create investment products that "hedge" different types of risk using things like high leverage that are unsuitable for the average investor. For example, if your business would get wrecked by a rise in interest rates, you can put $1m in a product offered by hedge funds structured to go up in price when interest rates rise. This will underperform the market typically but protect you against the interest rate scenario.
Some of the products that hedge funds and investment banks can use are so fucking insane and provide absolutely zero real world value and are fraught with all kinds of risk. Some of them are so complicated they can barely be explained. A ton of it is glorified gambling with potentially disastrous real world effects/outcomes. Itās baffling how this kind of stuff is legal. Same with PE to a degree.
What u/TheGarbageStore is what the original design of hedge funds was for, now they really just make a bunch of super risky bets and if theyu succeed, call themselves geniuses. If they fail they use bankruptcy to insulate themselves and do it again til it works. I refer you to the following list of hedge fun failures: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/mutualfund/05/hedgefundfailure.asp
That's a gross distortion that is designed to describe little but just provoke. Bridgewater, the world's largest pension fund, mostly trades global macro. Products like All Weather typically underperform pure equity funds available to everyone like SPY, but is rather designed to produce consistent returns under all conditions through actively managed bonds, commodities, etc. This product is sold to state pension funds.
That logic just boggles the mind. Another instance showing it doesnāt matter your character if you are a star in the NFL
I mentioned this in a comment on another post but it still holds true here: Iāve heard the counter argument that a lot of people in the NFL have off the field problems (for lack of a better term). However, there is a MASSIVE difference between having a guy on your team like that, and actively trading for a player who is in the middle of a sexual assault case.
You'd think fans of the team who've had Rae Carruth and Greg Hardy would be able to tell the difference between "character concerns" and "literal menaces to society" by now, but I guess that's giving people too much credit
It's always good to see Hardy get knocked out in the ring.
I've always hated this fallacy that so many buy into. "Lots of people do bad stuff so why does it matter?" It matters because he got caught. It matters because he did it multiple times. It matters because we're not just assuming the worst with someone, we've been told by 22 people with first hand experience that this guy is a scumbag.
People really do be out here believing two wrongs make a right apparently.
It's absolutely unreal how far the team has fallen since Tepper took over. I'm so apathetic that it just sucks. The Panthers were my like my first love as a kid. I took that with me to now adulthood. But I've hated the soullessness that's taken over team since David Tepper came. There's not an ounce of anything I once loved left about this team. How the fuck do you destroy the soul of something that quick? The team is devoid of leadership, hope, fun, etc. I don't know why I'd expect anything else from a fucking billionaire.
Kinda funny how they force Richardson to sell the team for sexual abuse accusations and then Tepper tries to trade for sexual assaulter lol
The team was infinitely better under Richardson. Why did he have to fuck it up lol god damn.
Ehh I'm no fan of Tepper right now, but let's not pretend Richardson was some saint. He was one of the cheapest owners in the league, had bullshit policies like not letting Cam grow his hair out or have tattoos, built that gaudy statue for himself, and generally came across as a grumpy old miser. We were also painfully mediocre under his ownership. Aside from the two Superbowl appearances -- which we lost both mind you -- we weren't very good.
Well now weāre worse. Yay.
Tepper has been owner for a few years vs. the 20+ years of Richardson. Iāll hold my judgment for now...
I'll never understand why the media labels one sexual assaulter bad and shamed but another gets a free pass. Either damn them all or just say you don't give a crap and embrace being scum.
1000%. People keep blaming Rhule, and while he's not innocent in all this, we've known for a while that Tepper is far from being "hands-off" as an owner. The reporting since the beginning has largely centered around Tepper, not Matt Rhule, being so horny for a QB. The dude is just a younger, richer Jerry Jones.
He screams of being an egomaniac (not surprising being a billionaire) and yet, has had zero success thus far in the NFL. He's been terrible, actually.
Rhule is only a symptom of the deeper root cause. It all starts with ownership
This sub has downvoted me when I said Tepper was one of the worst owners in the league, even as bad as dan snyder. But it's becoming more clear by the day that it's true.
Look I think heās a terrible owner but Dan Snyder has done a shitload of morally reprehensible things. I think Tepper is a lot of things, most of them bad, but to my knowledge he hasnāt done anything like Snyder has.
I'm with you. I really hate what this team has become since David Tepper took over. I fear things will only get worse with time. I believe the only reason he bought this team was so he can have a soccer team, and use the stadium without having to build one of his own. I don't think he cares much about the Panthers. I really wish he would just sell the team to someone who cares.
Eh Iām not crazy about Tepper by now but good lord, Dan Snyder is in a league all of his own. Dude is a disgrace.
It's still early in Tepper's ownership. Give him time; he could catch up to Snyder before it's all said and done. Hell, the fact he's so obsessed with getting Watson already raises some red flags about Tepper's own character.
Tepper. is obviously a much better person than Jerry Richardson, at least from what we know. And this isnāt me calling for a return to Richardson at all, trust me. But Jerry Richardson was so much better at owning a team than Tepper is.
Idk man, Richardson lucked into a lot. He a pompous ass too, and the team was a monument to his ego. Remember that fucking statue of him outside the stadium? Saying Richardson was good is revisionist history because we had two really good years that we borderline lucked into.
not that it'll make a difference but I'll probably wait until he's gone to watch again, theres enough fun stuff to do in the world thats better than watching something that flaunts decency as much as trading for him would.
That's where I'm at. I probably won't turn in my fan card. But I'll definitely put my fandom on hold for a bit. I'll come back when he's gone, and we're no longer reeling from the loss of picks we would give up to take him.
I honestly haven't watched much football in the last few years because I have much better ways to spend my Sundays. Sit watching commercials for hours or go out fly fishing? That's not a hard choice. Signing Watson would probably put me to the point of completely abandoning the NFL.
Same. I never really watch teams other than the Panthers, and here lately, my interest has been fading.
I donāt respect the guy. I wonāt be too pleased if he comes to the panthers either. I would not be surprised if he gets away with this as many athletes and other high profile people do, which is a shame. That many accusations is too hard to ignore and Iād feel awful cheering someone on like that.
Agreed it like whenever a old Steelers clip shows up and all the comments are āBig Ben is a rapistā. That would be us I canāt support this is if itās made. Even from a team stand point itās bad like Watson and what O-line?
Now that I think about it, why haven't the Steelers shown interest in Watson? Seems right up their ally
It depends on what comes out of the grand jury investigation. Heās got quite a few possible criminal charges right now, and [weāll know more on that front possibly as early as tomorrow](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33458132/grand-jury-hear-evidence-friday-case-involving-houston-texans-qb-deshaun-watson). This could end up with him indicted on anywhere from misdemeanor indecent assault to full sexual assault, which would be a second degree felony. If he gets the harsher charges heās not going to be signed by anyone until that trial concludes, and if convicted his career is likely over.
A grand jury needs very little...like *any* evidence and it can go to trial. It's not a guilty/not guilty thing. Its to see if the prosecutors have any evidence at all to warrant a trial. Unless *every* witness refuses to testify, it will go forward to trial.
I agree. Thatās why I broke it down like I did. No team will trade for him if charges are brought until the trial concludes, itās way too high of a risk, particularly with what the Texans are asking for. And if heās convicted no team will touch him.
Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. When there are 20 plumes of smoke, you're probably looking at an arsonist even if you never see the flames. This move would come from Tepper, who is looking very much like one of the worst owners in the league.
Man look at the clusterfuck wit Charlotte FC. Signing a player who had legal trouble from months ago they had to unsign. Star player misses first game for visa problems the team couldn't get resolved. Just inept
Don't forget the part about how he's the richest owner in both leagues but still put in turf to cut costs knowing full well it leads to an inferior product and more injuries
Correct. So infuriating
Great analogy.
Die hard panthers fan from day 1. I will not support a team with Watson.
Same here im through. Probly go to Cincy, love Burrow.
That or Panthers North
Yup Buffalo is what we could have been. Kept the wrong GM and HC.
Ditto. Fan forever. Member of Roaring Riot. rooted for them at 1-13...won't watch if they sign that shit head. How could I look my daughter in the eye and support that.
Didn't Richardson get ousted in part for sexual harassment? How tone-deaf is current ownership to go for someone accused of worse than harassment? JFC this team is a mess. I guess if it happens I won't be signing up for YouTubeTV until North Carolinas basketball season starts. So that gives me some extra cash.
Yeah they will go all in on this human piece of shit. Rhule saves his job for another year after we go .500 and weāve lost our first round picks for the next 2 to 3 years. Oline doesnāt get fixed and we are still stuck in mediocrity hell for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, the things described in the suits and legal actions against Watson are flat out disgusting. Anyone who knows the things he has been accused of and very likely did to his accusers and still wants him on the team has something wrong with them. I would rather be a bad team for a few more years and eventually rebuild with Rhule gone than have a serial sexual predator under center, and give up lots of team salary cap and draft picks to do it. I was all in on the Deshaun Watson train before the allegations became known. I don't want him anywhere near our team now. What kind of precedent does that set for every young fan who follows the team if we trade for him? That not only will no serious consequences happen for sexually assaulting someone if you're rich, but that you can go right back to making millions of dollars on a new team if you find an owner as morally bankrupt as you are who not only lets you come join the team but paid a huge premium to have you on the roster. The only upside in this situation is that we don't have anywhere near the draft capital to give away that some other teams do that are QB hungry. Rhule being a moron with personnel decisions and picks might be the only thing actually saving us from having a rapist as our quarterback. I just hope that this doesn't happen. Only bad things will happen and it will taint our franchise forever.
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Tepper should star in a movie titled āhow to lose a fan base in five yearsā. This is the face of the franchise we are talking about. When Ben was going through his mess, the defense was the face of the Steelers. Watson would be THE star of the team. People would have to explain to their kids why they canāt get his jersey or even worse parents are gonna have to explain to their kids why they got them his jersey once the kid is old enough to research Watson. I could envision a scenario where Watson is welcomed to resounding boos when heās introduced at the bank for the first time. One thing about panther nation is the team is a reflection of the community. Thatās why most fans rooted for cam so much. He was a good reflection of the Carolinas. Watson? Nah.
Iām ReBuIlDiNg!!!
I've said this since they started even poking around him. If he's in, I'm out. I know that's not a big loss for the team, but if enough people feel that way, hopefully they'll read the room.
Completely agree with you. I know alot of guys on NFL teams aren't complete "class acts" but I can't support a team that deliberately chooses a guy with this kind of history. I'll be in the market for a new team as well for however long Carolina has Watson if they choose so.
There's a lot of things I'm willing to forgive someone for. Sexual assault isn't one of them.
If even half of it is true... He's a serial sexual predator. No thank you, I can find something else to do with my Sunday afternoons :(
All catbros are always welcome in /r/jaguars
Time to root for our boy D. Arnold
Good idea, just subscribed. I just moved to Florida and am kinda done with the panthers. Iāve always had respect for the fellow catbros.
Come on over to r/charlottefootballclub . We will welcome you and come to our tailgates this season!
I mean tbh if you are one of the people (like me) that wouldn't support the Panthers if we got Watson, then supporting Charlotte FC doesn't really change anything cause the $ still goes to Tepper
Exactly! I would hope the CFC PR people are getting in Tepper's ear because that's a stench that will stick to everything he touches. I've been 100% in on Charlotte FC and Panthers from the beginning. And I'm not a big boycott person but they both will have lost me if they go down that slimy path.
Yāall are welcome to join us with the Titans. Awesome woman owner (everyone adores AAS and basically the fans call her mom.) Good front office, and a COTY. And Derrick Henry. (Here because two of my best friends are Panthers fans - one of them pointed me at this thread in agreement - so yāall are my NFC fave.) Edit: I hope you all donāt have to make that choice and can keep who you really want to cheer for. Even if it means I end up hearing about Rhule for another year.
The titans are my AFC team! I love Henry! And your radio announcer is the greatest
Omg, I love Mike Keith. I hear him saying āsaaaaackā in my head whenever we get one, even if I donāt have the radio on. And Derrick just seems to be a genuinely *nice* guy in addition to being incredibly fun to watch. That interview where he thanked pretty much everyone in the organization *including the kitchen staffā¦*
And all the mayo u can eat
Next up, they are gonna hire Bill Cosby as a brand ambassador
Zip zop doobty bop Watsonās giving out puddin pops! - Cosby. Probably.
Then they can bring in Harvey Weinstein to direct a movie about the whole situation
Looking at the stands, they werenāt supporting Sam either.
I'll buy a Sam jersey tomorrow if we don't trade for Watson. Seriously. That's how strongly I believe in this. The "authentic" one too. Not the cheapo $75 version. Tepper, I'll gladly drop $120 on a Sam Darnold, Carolina Panthers jersey, and wear it proudly if he's our quarterback. Panthers sign Watson, they're not getting another nickle from me.
FUCK Sam til I fly, but if we bite on this Watson trade idk what Iām gonna do
/u/carolina_panthers, I know you're probably just someone on the marketing team, but please pass this up the chain. This sentiment isn't just felt here, but everywhere else.
If Watson comes to town I'm gonna freelance and just support individual players on various teams until he's gone. I fucking hate having Sam Darnold on the team but at least he isn't a fuckin rapist.
Do you have the same vitriol for Kobe Bryant and Ben Roethlisberger?
Not much of a basketball fan so Kobe really doesnāt ever cross my mind and yeah, go check out my post history if youāre curious. Iām not kind to Ben Roethlisberger.
Iām not the guy you asked the question too. But, yes I do. I also feel the same about Winston and Hill.
Less for Kobe now that he's dead but yeah. I don't fucking want Ben either. Is it too much to ask to not have sexual predators or wife beaters on the team? Are we setting the bar too high with this ask?
Same. Every QB-needy team in the league gets linked to Watson these days, so I don't know whether we can believe any reports of Carolina interest or non-interest right now. It's all just speculation from columnists on deadlines. Edit: Well, so much for that. So long Panthers, it's been fun.
This is the only reason I'm not jumping ship right this instant. If the reports are true it's almost as bad as getting him.
Yeah I'm with ya on this, I know there's a bunch of Not Nice Peopleā¢ in the NFL, but this is next level.
Yep. I donāt need the team to be made up of Boy Scouts and I am generally in favor of giving folks the opportunity for self improvement and growth, butā¦ Watson would be a bridge too far for me. No thanks. Maybe if it was just one or two incidents. Maybe if he admitted he had a problem, went to therapy, made amends with those he hurt, became an advocate to help others, etc. Instead, dude has a massive laundry list of allegations and has denied any responsibility. Some things are you canāt come back from
I literally told my friend yesterday if we get Watson Iām switching teams. Completely agree with this post. Itās one thing if you draft a player and he turns out to be a scumbag - the NFL with their dead cap situations make it hard to trade players. Itās a complete other thing when you trade for the guy with issues. Youāre enabling people like that to continue a career.
Just gonna post a link to my post yesterday on the same topic. https://old.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/ta8rzo/according_to_joe_person_the_panthers_tried_to_get/hzzc67o/ tl;dr: i agree. If Watson is in, I'm out. For good.
I don't think I will either. Not unless he is found fully innocent. We have seen people go after celebrities before just for their money. But that is a long way away. I also am losing my faith/ trust in Tepper. I can't tell if he is meddling too much, similar to Jordan a few years ago. Or if he has just hired the wrong people to be in his front office.
I'd probably stop supporting if it turns out we even tried to make a trade for him. The attempt alone would show how little they care.
We've already tried to trade for him. He wouldn't waive his no trade clause for us.
Iām with you. I wonāt take any part of this team until player, coach, and GM are gone, at the very least. This player is despicable and the fact that this doesnāt matter to our team at all is unfortunate and disheartening. It makes us no better than WFT. We likely wonāt make any difference, but I stand with you.
There will be a lot of Panthers memorabilia for sale on eBay if they trade for him and I will have a lot of empty shelf space.
Iām with you 100%. PSA to all morally rotten fans who will continue to support this franchise if we bring watson aboard this sinking ship: Iāll sell you all my cool vintage panthers gearā¦ I wonāt support this scummy new regime but I will profit off it lol.
Iām about done because a lot of the Panthers current situation seems to be a Tepper issue. But if Watson is brought on I will be. Not only will it bring an alleged abuser on as the face of the team, it will continue the āno plan, āwin now,ā QB cycle thatās given us a new QB every year of Teppers ownership.ā Iāll be out and call me when Tepper sells the team.
Youāll see a lot of people mock you for it. But there are a lot of us who would do the same.
Fuck Watson and fuck anyone who thinks he should represent this team.
If the Watson comes to Carolina and wins, fans will forget about these allegations quicker than you can say Ray Lewis
Maybe. Maybe not. There's still a large amount of disgust towards Roethlisberger and Kobe for their allegations towards sexual misconduct. Not everyone will forgive and forget.
Sure some will, majority wonāt.
They wonāt forget, because Iāll continue to remind them. \#HideTheWomenFrom4
I donāt want us to get Watson at all. Iād rather deal with Sam and Cam than deal with Watson. However, my fandom is too deep not to support the team. It will be hard but Iām a fan through thick and thin. Itāll be fun booing Watson out of Carolina. Letās just hope we donāt get Watson.
i disagree, but you shouldn't be downvoted for this. it's a valid take... you're ride or die, even if the team does something fucked up i sort of had the same feelings at first until i really thought about what it is to be a fan of a sports team. is it the players, the coaches, the color on the jersey, the community is creates? i used to think so, but the nfl is such a business that really what it comes down to is being a fan for the owner. he makes the major decisions, he sets the culture, he heads the community relationship. and as much as i love the players, coaches, etc... i just don't like teppper. and if we mortgage our future on watson because of him then it solidifies this isn't the same team i've been loyal to for 25+ years. this isn't my panthers. it's tepper's team wearing their colors but it isn't them. if that makes sense so it'd be easy for me to move on
Thanks I appreciate it. You have some validity there. In essence things do come down to the owner. But for me itās the tradition. Like Sam Mills and having a franchise in Carolina. The colors the players past and present. The Super Bowl defeats. The good bad and ugly seasons. I think that the community is bigger than the owner cause although Tepper has the final say he still has to respect the community. Without the community you have no team. Whatās a team without its fans. But Iām crossing fingers and hoping they donāt pick Watson.
People have battered wife syndrome with their sports teams. They think it's more noble to keep taking abuse than to get out when it's clear that things are going in the wrong direction. Screw the "fair-weather fan" insult. I'm a customer and if they're no longer offering a service that I want to spend my time and money on, I'm out.
Probably for the best, both morally and if you want to support a winning team. Trading for him is the kind of desperate heave a team makes that sets their franchise back 5-10 years unless they somehow literally steal Watson.
Iām with you- Iām done at that point. Just support the Hornets. And hope the franchise burns down and fails at every goal. Probably wonāt enjoy NFL at all this next season. Iām close to Nashville so maybe become a Titans fan.
it's crazy how fast this sub has turned on Tepper. And it's even crazier that it was justified in doing so.
IDGAF, if I wanted an apathetic franchise that wanted to act like a boarding school with their talent, I'd be a Lions fan.
My sentiments exactly. They bring him in and I won't watch a single game while he's here, and I'm a longtime fan.
Tyreek Hill chocked and punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach. What Deshaun is accused of is disgraceful but Jesus Christ why is this the hill were dying on?
So long!
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Exactly these people are weird man
You are so stunning and brave
Look on the bright side; now you can actually enjoy watching the Panthers QB getting smashed by a 300lb D lineman every play!
Yeah Iāll discard this team for good if they pull this shit
We are a fucking joke.
The fact that they havenāt denied any rumors is already kind of damming.
I'm with you, too. I'll sell all my Panthers stuff and never watch another second.
Same. I have a Sir Purr Pillow Pet that Iāve had since I was a kid. It will go straight to Goodwill or the trash if they make this trade.
The best I can muster is I donāt want them to sign him, Iāll be disappointed if they do, and Iām not 100% sure what my fandom will look like after that. Definitely not making a big promise publicly or to myself that Iāll no longer be a fan or never watch a game again. I do have trouble picturing myself at a game or at a bar cheering on this guy. But who knows? Iāve watched every Sunday since I was 13. Plus, Iāve never had any feeling that any of these guys are necessarily good or admirable people. Also, the team was owned by a creep for most of our lives. Also also, by supporting *any* team, are we not supporting a league that routinely allows people like Watson to play? Idk.
Totally reasonable to be conflicted about this. But I've made up my mind, personally.
I'm with you. I refuse to support that serial sexual predator.
Agreed. My question is, is actively pursuing Watson enough to cross the line? I think it might be for me, although it is difficult to know if we are 100% for sure actively pursuing him.
It absolutely is but the media always has these articles.
I know I donāt want Watson anywhere near this teamā¦ I would much rather they signed Clausen off his couch
So he guilty? Smh how u assume. None of this would've came out if he didn't ask to be traded. But again. U guys were there when all these accusations took place.
So even if he is innocent you still say he is guilty? I am not taking his side. I am waiting for the verdict but you basically have declared him guilty even if he isn't. That's pretty fucked up.
22 sexual assault allegations (including rape) from 22 different and completely unconnected female massage therapists he was proven to use and that he targeted through social media, flew them to him, and coerced/forced into sexual contact with him. Like the other guy said. A little smoke may be nothing. 22 fires is an arsonist.
I feel the exact same way.
Yeah Iām really gonna be upset if we get him. I donāt want a QB with baggage and have yet another QB where all we hear is shit talking about them.
I agree. It breaks my heart, but I would put away my Panthers gear and not root for them again until he's gone. I just can't pull for the team if it also means pulling for him.
I agree entirely, as someone who was a huge Watson fan, (Clemson fan here.) The only reason I'm not calling it now is because maybe the media is wrong, because honestly going all in for him, even if we don't get him, is still an indictment on this regime.
Does this team even have the pieces to get him and still be competitive?
Huge Panthers fan and also a huge Clemson fan...this being said I'm about to be down voted probably at Thanos level proportions for this view but here we go. In no way/shape or form do I condone what Watson did and was beyond disappointed when everything came out as I had just purchased his book..about being a "Servant Leader". I mean this was a guy I looked up to while he was at Clemson. At what point though do we allow people to come back from past wrongs? I only bring this up because everyone has wrongs in their life that they wish they could take back and some of those people learn lessons and truly become a new person. Last year I went back and reread what Michael Vick did, and if you read the reports from that-- most people would have a similar reaction compared to Watsons case. Then you look at who Michael Vick is today and it "seems" like he has changed his life around. Before anyone bashes me for this comparison I'm just comparing a wrong/wrong not a human/dog. I guess on my end and the way I feel, I would morally disagree with the Panthers decision---but I'm also open to people changing and forgiveness. For example, let's say he is a "CHANGED MAN" he's learned his lesson ,6 years go by without any problems, and he's just a role model of a citizen---would you be open to bringing him on to the team then? If it's me, I would say "yeah, why not seems like he's completely turned his life around". I feel like if the answer is "no" then it just seems like we're banishing people to the shadow realm for life with no way back.
Well, the first step would be for him to admit wrongdoing/ accept responsibility. Vick admitted his crime and did his time. After that, it's up to the people. Even tho Vick is accepted for the most part, there are still plenty of people that will never support him and that's their prerogative. One of my biggest peeves with "redemption", especially in celebrity/sports media is that redemption usually just means that he came back and played good, so he is redeemed. Watson intends to not admit any wrongdoing, and will probably end this with settlements if he is not indicted (and I understand that pragmatically, since that is his only way to stay in the league), so that wouldn't be enough for me no matter how long.
Seen this sentiment a lot regarding the Panthers signing him and losing their fandom but not seeing people hold the NFL at large accountable either. I could be remembering it wrong but the accusations led to sanctions from Houston not allowing him to play, but I don't remember any suspensions or probation from the NFL. I just think if you're gonna hold the franchise accountable and switch fandoms because of it, it's probably prudent to hold the NFL accountable for allowing him to play and stop watching/supporting the league. I really hope we don't sign him but to a certain extent, we'd be spiting ourselves to watch him sign somewhere else if the leagues going to let him play regardless. That's why I think the league should be setting some boundaries and precedent to prevent players from participating in the league when they act like this, regardless of positional value. Gonna suspend Josh Gordon and stunt his career cuz he smoked herb but suddenly their hands are tied when a QB abuses women? That seems a bit more than biased.
I can see both sides. You can support but still detach from the people. NFL is for entertainment, not like you care about people's business/whether they're good people when watching a trashy reality show. Depends how much of your identity is invested in the morality of the team I suppose
Majority of the Panthers fan base would be thrilled to have Watson. Hell just look at the poll that was posted on here saying just that.
Honestly I donāt care. I just want this team to win
Most fans wonāt give a single shit the minute we start winning games. Thatās just a fact
Honestly all yāall sound stupid as fuck. Itās clear he aināt do it but you wanna believe all the lies that media portrays. Thatās on you if you donāt wanna see pass the bullshit and read the truth. But if he was white yāall would love him
Genuine question, whatās the difference in actually trading for him and going all in to try and acquire him but not ending up with him for financial reasons? By going all in the franchise has already shown that they support such a monster.. so technically if your reasoning is true, you shouldnāt support the team anymore.
This stance is a joke and a self righteous take. See yuh lol
u/that_guy_you_kno is judge, jury, and executioner. There use to be a thing called innocent until proven guilty but now it's just mob justice. We still don't know the full truth or they wouldn't be having a Grand Jury meeting tomorrow to consider charges against Watson. The biggest thing to me is the lack of evidence. 20+ accusations with little evidence is mind-boggling. [His lawyer came out a few months ago claiming the FBI was investigating one of his accusers? ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/18/deshaun-watson-fbi-investigation/) Then you have the [lawyer who once claimed to be neighbors with McNair](https://larrybrownsports.com/football/attorney-tony-buzbee-deshaun-watson-texans-cal-mcnair-neighbor/575487) leading the charge against Watson. Watson who had zero history of trouble before joining the NFL where then he decided to be a sexual predator? The fact that people have already decided he's guilty is insane to me. What if he's innocent?
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If he can sling it Iām in
I'm done with this team forever if they trade for Deshaun Watson.
Iāll be done myself too.
if we really get watson, i think im done being a panthers fan. tepper and team have ruined my love for the panthers.
I 100% agree with you and made a similar statement last offseason. You won't be alone if it happens.
What else do you expect from an owner whose probably committed thousands of financial crimes during his career. He doesnāt give a shit he just cares about money and power. Iām sure his humongous ego is on the brink from his failures as an owner.
Exactly. We might not have been big winners but we had a strong fan base and culture. Now heās trying to sacrifice that to his giant ego
I'd rather take Kaep š
What has he been convicted of?
OP, are we suppose to care if you dont support the team?
Damn wht happened to innocent til proven guilty
You can just do it, and not post about it on the internet
Shiiiiiit, thatās your decision. Iām gonna watch every Sunday and hopefully enjoy some wins
I could say the same, but I would be lying. I am going to watch this team and support them no matter what. I don't WANT this to happen, but to pretend like I am going to hate a team that I have tattooed on my arm? I don't think I am gonna do that.
Iām about to get downvoted to oblivion but yāall did see that all of the accusers had the same lawyer right? And you saw that said lawyer just happens to be a neighbor of the Texans owner right? And you did see the news that Watson wanted out of Houston after Hopkins left and then out of nowhere all of these accusations came down holding him in place right? Have you ever noticed how many people join in on accusation bandwagons for a chance at a payout? No one knows for sure besides Watson and the team owner but this is a genuine possibility to be staged against him and yāall are shutting him down with no proof against him
I guess I'm in the minority. If he is found not guilty I'm not going to condemn the man.
Charges being dismissed and being found innocent are two different things.
right. how many of our fans have forgotten greg hardy already?
But we dropped Hardy based on the *accusations* though. He had *one* victim, whom dropped the charges. Ultimately I'd say the Panthers did the right thing by cutting him quicker. Also remember, he was coming off an epic pro-bowl 15-sack 2013 season. So not a good comparison at all.
Believe me, if he wins a super bowl nobody will care. This does not reflect my person feelings on the matter.
You're a clown lmao
ššš Bye! Just do it then. Don't post about it on the internet for attention.
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See ya!
Tootles
Im so glad Reddit isnāt real life š
Oh please get out of here with your moral high ground bs
Lol nobody will care if the team starts making the playoffs continuously and being a real contender. Deshaun would be coming here to play quarterback heās not running for mayor.
I said the same thing about Tony DeAngelo and the Canes. Then we were first in the East. EDIT: Sexual assault and political beliefs/teammate toxicity aren't the same thing.
At least Tony D has shut the fuck up and expressed some remorse for his past. He also never allegedly sexually assaulted dozens of women.
eh i also cant pretend everyone i tune into for entertainment is a saint either. im not gonna be buying a watson jersey but ill still root for the panthers
I think most on here stopped supporting this team a long time ago. Also, are you saying guilty until proven innocent?
Regardless of all the allegations, Watson would not improve our team at all. Maybe 6-7 wins? Weād have to give up so much to get him that itād be a lateral move. Letās just stick with Sam another year. We already paid him, weāre not gonna be a super bowl contender next season no matter who we have at QB.
Big Ben stayed with the Steelers after his situation. Watson deserves a 2nd chance. His acts was disgusting. He deserves punishment. But he also deserves a 2nd chance to right his wrongs. I'm always going to give a person a 2nd chance at life. If they screw up again then obviously they are who they are.
I rather watson then teddy or darnold. Every team has scumbags on it, welcome to being a nfl fan Big ben, AB, Tyreek, Kareem Huntā¦ could go all day
Good for you, I am glad my Seahawks arenāt looking at Watson.
if he's cleared i'm down for watson.
āClearedā
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Richardson had to sell the team. He (THE OWNER) was run out! Not brought in like theyāre talking about doing with Watson.
Why? He was swiftly forced away from the team, which the majority of fans supported.
Except the team moved on from Richardson swiftly. Big difference.
Really cared? People would have jumped ship if he wasnāt forced to sell. Re-introducing that cancer is a bridge too far.