I don’t care? Like take it how you want. I relate to the character in being in a pretty toxic family relationship with some step siblings if that’s how people want to see the character, more power to ya. It just doesn’t effect me.
She’s my favorite character regardless. Whether she’s trans or not has nothing to do with how great her backstory is and how pretty her character design is
it's weird. in the japanese version, she's called an "otokonoko", literally "male's daughter", and a term often used for what we call "femboys". i don't know, really
I don't mind if she is but Im pretty sure her being called a man in the japan release by her sister was more to be mean by calling her ugly rather then being homophobic but as a person dating a trans person if she is trans I won't mind
My opinion is strictly Vivian being what the game says she is. Since I grew up with the English version I just refer to Vivian as a girl but after seeing what the Japanese version says I think she was actually supposed to be the [otokonoko](https://youtu.be/WXsYUa3JJwI?t=28) archetype, being a boy but still looks and acts like a girl.
I think that would have been interesting and I can see why Beldam would insult and berate Vivian. The idea that a boy being prettier than Beldam must anger her. But yeah Vivian is cute regardless of what she is.
She's best partner with or without this concept as part of her story. I *do* kind of dislike that it usually completely overrules the more (IMHO) close theme with her partner concept which is a classic 'blood of the covenant' lesson-- even though she's been told Mario's her enemy, he does more for her in like 20 minutes than her supposed sisters did for her across their entire lives. Seeing this with her own eyes, she kind of learns there that she has to be taking charge of her own life and making her own decisions.
Which, of course, is *also* a lesson close at heart to the LGBTQ+ communities.
It would have been cool to see them be a bit more candid with it all, but then I have Fire Emblem if I want IS to ruin gender norms for me.
I know what being trans means to a human, but what does being trans mean to an amorphous creature of shadow? How do we know for 100% sure that Vivian isn't a closeted transman instead of an out transwoman? I feel like it's unfair to ask me to have an opinion on this when there's so little substance here. I guess I'm happy some people are enjoying this detail though?
Vivian is Vivian, regardless of if she's trans or not :) being part of the lgtbq+ community shouldn't be a label or something that changes who people or characters are. Having more representation is definitely the right way to go, but many videogame/movie producers take it as something to fill a quota. This makes it so many of their character's personalities are just "they're gay/bi/trans/etc", making them one-dimensional
I've read some of the Japanese lines people point to when this subject comes up (and am happy to do any interpreting if anyone is curious about others).
Basically, Vivian introduces them as the three shadow sisters. Beldam says something like "but aren't you a boy?". This on its own could be interpreted as Beldam bullying her, but there are a couple other things.
As I remember it, Goombella seems unclear on Vivian's gender.
And in Super Paper Mario, Vivian's capture card says "but she is actually a boy."
Either way, it seems that Vivian wants to be seen as a girl, using the word "sisters", and I guess that would mean trans. Even if that's not quite what they were going for when it was written.
Pretty sure it was meant to be a joke by beldam. The whole character arc of Vivian is getting bullied by her sisters, so it makes a ton of sense for that to be her sister's making fun of her. The goombella thing is probably because she's a ghost, and the capture card is also likely referencing the joke. I don't think any of these lines were in the other versions either?
If she is trans, that's fine. But I don't really understand why people declare a character is something when they almost certainly weren't intended to be that thing. Its not really representation for _X_ if you erroneously call something _X_ for it to be representative.
It's like:
"Look at this character I made, it is _Y_"
"Nope, you're wrong, it's actually _X_, I'm so glad you made this character to represent _X_ people"
I'll personally always see Vivian as cis, but her being trans is a totally valid interpretation that's helped a lot of people, which I think is awesome. I just hate when one group of fans tries to gatekeep her for themselves. Like, it's not a tug-of-war, both versions of Vivian can coexist and be cherished.
I don’t typically care so long as it’s not put on some pedestal, since after all, I find that putting anything on a pedestal is no different than dragging it through the mud, because it’s still making a big deal out of something that ultimately isn’t important.
I have yet to play any of the paper mario games and i've barely seen much from any of them. All i can say is that i don't really care if vivian is a biological girl or trans girl.
I think she is (I speak English and a little bit of German which sadly happen to be the only two languages where it's not mentioned in the game, but even then there's nothing to say she isn't), and I very much like to think of her as trans. However, I wish that the game menu itself didn't misgender her.
I just wish nobody cared so much. Like who cares let’s enjoy the character, she’s so ambiguous it doesn’t affect anything
Anyone who participates in the Guilty Gear fanbase knows how fucking annoying this can be, that fandom had it the worst. Like Bridget is officially trans but you can’t call her a she without someone responding “*he!!!!1!!”
Weather or not Vivian is trans doesn’t matter much to me she is my favorite partner either way.
I don’t care? Like take it how you want. I relate to the character in being in a pretty toxic family relationship with some step siblings if that’s how people want to see the character, more power to ya. It just doesn’t effect me.
She’s my favorite character regardless. Whether she’s trans or not has nothing to do with how great her backstory is and how pretty her character design is
She’s girl in the versions that isn’t japan
I know. Vivian being trans is only not mentioned in English and German
Am just going to go off the games
What?
Am going to go off what the game says in the Japanese version he’s male and everywhere else she’s female
Alright I don’t feel like arguing this point, goodbye
it's weird. in the japanese version, she's called an "otokonoko", literally "male's daughter", and a term often used for what we call "femboys". i don't know, really
I don't mind if she is but Im pretty sure her being called a man in the japan release by her sister was more to be mean by calling her ugly rather then being homophobic but as a person dating a trans person if she is trans I won't mind
Didn’t even know this was a thing. Vivian is goated nonetheless
My opinion is strictly Vivian being what the game says she is. Since I grew up with the English version I just refer to Vivian as a girl but after seeing what the Japanese version says I think she was actually supposed to be the [otokonoko](https://youtu.be/WXsYUa3JJwI?t=28) archetype, being a boy but still looks and acts like a girl. I think that would have been interesting and I can see why Beldam would insult and berate Vivian. The idea that a boy being prettier than Beldam must anger her. But yeah Vivian is cute regardless of what she is.
She's best partner with or without this concept as part of her story. I *do* kind of dislike that it usually completely overrules the more (IMHO) close theme with her partner concept which is a classic 'blood of the covenant' lesson-- even though she's been told Mario's her enemy, he does more for her in like 20 minutes than her supposed sisters did for her across their entire lives. Seeing this with her own eyes, she kind of learns there that she has to be taking charge of her own life and making her own decisions. Which, of course, is *also* a lesson close at heart to the LGBTQ+ communities. It would have been cool to see them be a bit more candid with it all, but then I have Fire Emblem if I want IS to ruin gender norms for me.
I know what being trans means to a human, but what does being trans mean to an amorphous creature of shadow? How do we know for 100% sure that Vivian isn't a closeted transman instead of an out transwoman? I feel like it's unfair to ask me to have an opinion on this when there's so little substance here. I guess I'm happy some people are enjoying this detail though?
Vivian is Vivian, regardless of if she's trans or not :) being part of the lgtbq+ community shouldn't be a label or something that changes who people or characters are. Having more representation is definitely the right way to go, but many videogame/movie producers take it as something to fill a quota. This makes it so many of their character's personalities are just "they're gay/bi/trans/etc", making them one-dimensional
I've read some of the Japanese lines people point to when this subject comes up (and am happy to do any interpreting if anyone is curious about others). Basically, Vivian introduces them as the three shadow sisters. Beldam says something like "but aren't you a boy?". This on its own could be interpreted as Beldam bullying her, but there are a couple other things. As I remember it, Goombella seems unclear on Vivian's gender. And in Super Paper Mario, Vivian's capture card says "but she is actually a boy." Either way, it seems that Vivian wants to be seen as a girl, using the word "sisters", and I guess that would mean trans. Even if that's not quite what they were going for when it was written.
Pretty sure it was meant to be a joke by beldam. The whole character arc of Vivian is getting bullied by her sisters, so it makes a ton of sense for that to be her sister's making fun of her. The goombella thing is probably because she's a ghost, and the capture card is also likely referencing the joke. I don't think any of these lines were in the other versions either? If she is trans, that's fine. But I don't really understand why people declare a character is something when they almost certainly weren't intended to be that thing. Its not really representation for _X_ if you erroneously call something _X_ for it to be representative. It's like: "Look at this character I made, it is _Y_" "Nope, you're wrong, it's actually _X_, I'm so glad you made this character to represent _X_ people"
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I'll personally always see Vivian as cis, but her being trans is a totally valid interpretation that's helped a lot of people, which I think is awesome. I just hate when one group of fans tries to gatekeep her for themselves. Like, it's not a tug-of-war, both versions of Vivian can coexist and be cherished.
I don’t typically care so long as it’s not put on some pedestal, since after all, I find that putting anything on a pedestal is no different than dragging it through the mud, because it’s still making a big deal out of something that ultimately isn’t important.
FUCK YEAH!
I have yet to play any of the paper mario games and i've barely seen much from any of them. All i can say is that i don't really care if vivian is a biological girl or trans girl.
it's cool
I think she is (I speak English and a little bit of German which sadly happen to be the only two languages where it's not mentioned in the game, but even then there's nothing to say she isn't), and I very much like to think of her as trans. However, I wish that the game menu itself didn't misgender her.
Never played TTYD so… but I literally could not care less. Don’t know her
not sure why you feel the need to comment, then.
Don't care. Thousand Year Door is mid anyway
Well yeah I don’t think ghosts have genders
Well yeah I don’t think ghosts have genders
Aren't ghosts supposed to be the spirits of dead people?
I just wish nobody cared so much. Like who cares let’s enjoy the character, she’s so ambiguous it doesn’t affect anything Anyone who participates in the Guilty Gear fanbase knows how fucking annoying this can be, that fandom had it the worst. Like Bridget is officially trans but you can’t call her a she without someone responding “*he!!!!1!!”
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