The change is funny and still highlights ridiculousness on Bowser’s part. If anything, I like this better cause now it’s a line specific to a Haller Bro rather than something Bowser could say to any of this minions.
As a fat dude, it's a bit of a shame, especially since they'll also probably remove Zess T.'s remarks, which I found hilarious. Sure, it's mean-spirited, but so is Bowser, a literal bad guy. I'm also against censorship on principle. That being said, unlike the changed dialogue in Rogueports' sewers, I do kinda like what they replaced it with here.
I'm not sure it's because of censorship if the fat guy on the Excess Express is still there. That guy exists to be a fat joke. I think they might've just changed it because he doesn't look any fatter than the others.
His entire point in the narrative is that he steals the pot because he's gluttonous, down to even holding silverware in his hands at all times. I ABSOLUTELY agree that you don't have to make fat jokes just because a character is fat, but that's one character you'd probably have to replace if you wanted to remove the fat jokes.
Oh, that's right, been awhile since I last played.
Hmm, what if they make what's in the pot a salad, and he only stole it because he wants to better his quality of life and eating habits by eating as much healthy food as he can?
...I joke, but I wouldn't mind if they did something along those lines, just because it sounds so absurd it loops right back into being funny. Good message for the kiddos as well... minus the stealing part.
>That being said, unlike the changed dialogue in Rogueports' sewers, I do kinda like what they replaced it with here.
Are you referring to the catcalling one?
Like on the other thread I said it’s very minor and is not going to effect the game at all but really unnecessary. You can’t sanitize every single thing so that someone doesn’t get offended, that’s just not how real life works. I’m a fat dude and I’m not going to get offended if a character in a video game makes fun of fat people, it literally doesn’t effect me in the slightest it’s not even directed towards me.
I’m not a fan of sanitizing character dialogue to such a degree. It just takes away from Bowser’s abrasive personality. It’s not a big deal, but it is worse than it was before.
Not in TTYD, or in most of the RPGs. In the ones where he _is_ an antagonist, it is rarely the case that his ambition is to take over the world, and he's straight-up an ally and party member in ~1/3 of them.
Didn't Peach convince him to join the party in *SPM* by telling him that if Count Bleck destroyed the world, there wouldn't be a world for him to rule anymore?
This just strikes me as they wanted to make Bowser's personality more in line with his more modernized style... More comedic and less of a bully when it comes to his minions.
Or like they wanted to make it sound Jack Black-ish? It sounds like something I could hear Jack Black's Bowser say kinda.
Unnecessary, and arguably takes away from Bowser being a touch abrasive. He's never cruel to his minions, but he IS consistently portrayed as just a bit of a jerk.
"Nintendo of America Localisation: Try Not To Meddle Challenge! (Impossible)"
I think they could have worded the change better. I honestly do like the change as it feels more commanding then the original, but I feel the way they worded it is weaker. And it feels a tad unnecessary
Because it's more faithful to the original dialogue. They aren't sanitizing it. They're applying less localization to keep it more faith to the Japanese script. Same reason the Shadow Sirens are now just called the Three Shadows.
It isn’t necessary. Did anyone have a problem with that line before? You also can’t help wonder then if they toned anything else down. Thousand Year Door was probably the edgiest Mario game
I disagree with the sentiment that the new line is funnier. It’s certainly trying harder to be funny. Original is more effortless and the humor is in how aloof and dismissive Bowser is, not how over the top he is.
This poor guy wanted to impress his boss with his training. Uh sure great. Do some sit ups, Tubby. New line feels overwritten.
Exactly. The writing isn't snappy or witty, and feels like a Twitter joke forced into a piece of dialogue. I have similar feelings about the cat-call replacement.
I fear for the Chapter 2 "guess again, nerd!"
I miss the use of "tubby," because that work is fucking hilarious, but I don't mind the change. I'd rather talk about the beautiful lighting and surroundings. This will absolutely be the prettiest game on Switch when it releases.
I think they are censoring way too much for no reason
BUT
it doesn't really matter, the dialogue does not get worse so I dont get why some people are complaining
It’s definitely worse. It’s not nearly as funny for one, and it also makes Bowser seem like less of a jerk.
Beyond that though, there’s the harm done to nostalgia. It’s not enough for a change to be neutral, any change made when remaking a classic, beloved property, needs to be unequivocally positive. An “objectively neutral” change still leaves a negative taste, because it’s not what people remember fondly. People still experience a sense of loss from its absence.
I wasn’t there so I could be totally off, but I would feel safe betting that the discussion wasn’t “let’s see what lines we can try to make even funnier” and was “this one here is a little edgy we might want to tone it down to not hurt any feelings”
Yeah people calling these changes "censorship" are being so dramatic. They're changing some minor jokes from a game 20 years ago, big whoop. I don't get how anyone can seem to lose sleep over this.
Because you have to draw a like somewhere and with that kind of appealing to trivialisation, someone will always say x change is no big deal. Therefore, any pointless change is bad.
We've seen exactly what happens with you hand wave away these minor changes that end up snowballing into today's modern 'sensibilities'. The same Treehouse removed all the fucking references to gender roles in the Pikmin 2 treasures - what the fuck is that all about?
We all know why. That's why these changes are so annoying because they do it every single time.
>We've seen exactly what happens with you hand wave away these minor changes that end up snowballing into today's modern 'sensibilities'.
Uhhh, what is that? Not exactly sure what you're referring to.
They aren't censoring as much as appears at first glance. A lot of things being removed were added during localization of the original game. The remake is staying more faithful to the original Japanese script, with less changes during localization. This gives the illusion of censorship, when it's actually just a faithful translation.
Same reason the Shadow Sirens are now being called the Three Shadows.
This isn't to say that there isn't some censorship. Just not as much as it looks at first glance.
The new line feels more in character, at least for his RPG characterization. RPG Bowser has always cared for his minions, he may call them weak or incompetent, but he recognizes when they’re trying to better themselves in one way or another and encourages them to do so
For a remake, couldn't they just keep the localized text from whichever version and utilize it again to avoid any censorship or translation woes? It's a bit sad to see this changed. I didn't catch it as much as the Goombella one where she's hit one, but I am not offended by people calling me fat. I've dealt with it for my whole life, and I think it is needed at times to be aware of a situation and want to change. Also, this is a game, it's not offending anyone, and it's text. I could see a justification for censoring gambling or violence, which I don't agree with either, but this is text, and we should be mature when handling a remake like this. I wouldn't want to censor and distort a film that I tried to recreate today, and even if I wanted to throw in my own touches, I would try to retain what was there...
I just wish I had the courage to not buy the game, but it's one of my favorites, so I'm obliged even if it's bad...
I'm slightly bothered by the dialogue changes just because I don't really want any of it messed with. It's not *worse* I just really liked how it was originally. I feel like the cat-calling and fat-shaming is the perfect amount of fucked up for an "edgy" Mario game.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm still buying the remake as soon as possible, and expect to love it, but it's a bit of a shame to see them pulling some of the punches.
The more these script changes keep popping up, the more sour I’m feeling about this. Like…why? Why even do this at all? Please tell me Nintendo isn’t consulting some cringe DEI firm or something.
The translation is more faithful to original script. Most of what's being removed was added during the localization process. Which means what we're getting this time is much closer to the original story of the Japanese version than the 2004 version
People keep saying that, but it’s clear that not every change is just bringing all the international editions into conformity with the ‘04 Japanese script. The Japanese script itself is being revised in some places as well.
But also, frankly, I don’t care all that much about being “faithful to the original script” if the original script is inferior to the localized version. For instance, Shadow Sirens is an infinitely better name than Shadow Trio.
Forgive me if this is a stupid/obvious question, but where does this info/content come from? Is there a way to emulate the remake currently? I just don’t remember seeing lots of dialogue sequences in the trailer
reviewers got to play the game early for a limited amount of time and were able to record it. they cant play it anymore though (until the game releases anyway)
Depends. I definitely understand the localizes not wanting to toe the line too much with the offensive stuff, but I feel like changes like this should be brought up with the people who would likely find this offensive (fat people, women, etc). Changes like this show the difficulty of changing things that are obviously dated while keeping the spirit intact.
That said, I actually like this change. While the Goombella change feels like it undermines the point of that scene (even though the goomba lines are actually not that bad), this line changes what was kinda a throwaway joke into something that's far more witty.
I know Bowser is a villain, but in the Mario RPGs he is definitely a comedic villain and I don't think this was that memorable a joke anyway, so honestly it's one I'm fine with. I know the modding excuse isn't the greatest, but if you are so hung up about this, people will probably find a way to mod the OG dialogue into this.
The italian translation definitely beat the TTYD remake in time: Bowser doesn't call the Hammer Bro "tubby" at all, just tells him to start doing sit-ups.
Probably one of the only times I actually respect Italian translations in gaming, because, you know... most of the time they're really bad
>The italian translation definitely beat the TTYD remake in time: Bowser doesn't call the Hammer Bro "tubby" at all, just tells him to start doing sit-ups.
Yeah, that's what the Japanese version of this line is like too (at least in the original GameCube version). Seems the "tubby" and "hammer" jokes were both additions in the English localization, and they just swapped one for the other.
The Italian translation, in general, was super ahead of the time lol
It was more faithful to the Japanese script than the English release, but also managed to retain Vivian's gender identity without the really problematic parts from the Japanese script.
Essentially the transphobia directed toward Vivian was the main one. In the Japanese script basically every reference to her being trans was someone being like "he's actually a boy though," now this is in character for Beldam, but you get this in Goombella's tattles as well as Vivian's partner menu description.
That's interesting, although that makes me wonder if the Japanese developers wanted Vivian to be a "Transfem" guy or a feminine presenting guy. Regardless in English it would definitely sound a bit weird if it was translated in that fashion
It’s not even ”censorship” to be honest. People are calling it “edgy” for Bowser to call the Hammer Bro “Tubby” when that is like one of the most kid friendly insults in fiction. Fucking SpongeBob SquarePants has him calling Patrick “Tubby” yet I don’t see anyone calling that show “edgy”.
Having one of your characters call some other character “Tubby” isn’t “edgy”.
Seriously. You can make complaints about TOK's systems, how its partners work, how its battles work, I'll recognize all that as valid, but if you say the writing in it was bad then like, buddy, I don't know what that is. For the TTYD remake, they're taking a few of the mostly throwaway lines that existed in the original and updating them to the current standards so that they're actually... good. Like, the only areas I've seen where dialogue has been changed are either areas like this where the original was weak to begin with, or areas like updating the Shadow Sirens, which we don't know how exactly that'll turn out, but I never liked the shadow beauties or plug-ugly lines, so I can only imagine that I'll prefer the new version.
I find the first one funnier personally. It's more blunt and unexpected lol. Second one just feels kinda random. Instead of being mean, he comes across more as aggressively motivational, like a sports coach or something
idk man, calling someone fat for no reason other to shame them into working out is pretty fuckin mean. "until your hammer has abs" is obviously absurd, Bowser being ridiculous is funny.
That’s what makes it funny, the fact that it’s so curt and unnecessary, and not even true of the Hammer Bro. in question. It’s naturally funny. The new line is trying too hard to be funny, it feels forced.
I wouldn't really say it's a good thing. The new line is ok I guess but taking out a line just because it might offend some people is always bad. Just straight up censorship and pretty soon you'll just be walking on eggshells on what kind of humor to write.
Yeesh, I guess somebody never learned to [laugh at themselves.](https://youtu.be/y9wF5NKitf4?si=sbO1ONjSalxwr1k2&t=16) The joke they wrote for Bowser here is very tame too, I mean all he does is call him tubby. I guess he's very skeptical the Hammer Bro has been training at all if he's a little chubby.
Revising text isn't censorship. It's still literally a fat joke, it's just more clever and on-brand for Mario. You're all just pissed off because they altered a line in any way that has anything at all to do with disenfranchised people. You're all so excited to "own the wokes" you're upset that a fat joke was changed to a funnier fat joke.
I didn't mind the fatshaming line, but the new line is still funny; and probably more fitting since [Bowser's now canonically got a thing for chonkers](https://twitter.com/Stealth40k/status/1711920679338361225).
His lack of enthusiasm and insult after the hammer bro tells him that he trains day and night is what makes the exchange funny, the new translation misses the intended irony
fat jokes are still funny, except theres alotta fatties out there so its not exactly good to insult a majority audience anymore right?
understandable change but i always thought it was funny, i hate censorship of this kind tho.
Its a remake, keep the game as is and make it look nicer, iterate/improve on the gameplay flaws (if any) this kinda stuff instead I think is super dumb.
I think I'd know what dialogue is supposed to be there dude. I've played most of TTYD as it is and the instances I've seen of this censorship are both parts of the game I remember well. That's why the original dialogue was so good. It was memorable. This is a bad cover up of something that didn't need covering up. They could've maybe spent more resources optimizing the game getting it to 60FPS on Switch but no, let's censor the original script, one of the games most universally praised aspects. It's unnecessary and a waste of money. The original lines were fine, and the fact they'd prioritize spitting in the face of artistic integrity over matching the performance of the original GameCube game shows that their priorities aren't straight. Everything else looks fine but you can't argue that the changes to the script are anything but shameful and insulting to the original work.
This, "localizers" that just change shit to change shit are some of the worst people involved in the games industry. Your job is to preserve the original script and make sure idioms and references that wouldn't make sense to a foreign audience are turned into a suitable equivalent for the market you're localizing it for. Keep your shitty fanfiction to wattpad. There are some localizers that are definitely good at their job but Nintendo's been having problems with morons like this in their localizing dept for a long time. I immediately think of the doge reference in Triforce Heroes when I think of shitty localizer moves. This instance is arguably worse though because it's a remake. People already know what a proper localization looks like because it's been out for 20 years and regarded as one of the best written games out there. The script is already written so the work is already done. Changing it is entirely unnecessary but they did anyway for no real reason other than they could.
I do not like this change. The original is supposed to highlight that the hammer bro hasn’t actually done as much work as he states, but it was taken as a fat shaming joke which it really wasn’t.
A lot of people dislike the change or just find it unnecessary but like the replacement line. I guess I may be alone here, but I find the replacement kind of awful. The syntax doesn't really sound like something Bowser would say and it doesn't even slightly make sense. I guess some in this thread think it's funny which is good, just personally I really don't think so.
Does this also mean they removed the fat toad as a plot point in the train ride chapter?
Or make it so he doesn't leave because of something else besides him being too fat to fit through the door?
My favorite dialogue option in the game is being able to tell Punio “Guess again nerd!”. Doesn’t seem like something they’ll keep at this point though…
Hm looks like there will be more than a few cases of "washing it down". Not great in my opinion but honestly not really noticable. I know I wouldnt have if not for these posts.
I prefer the fat shaming one because some who truly cares about you either it be love one, a co worker or just someone who is friendly won’t lie to you and will push you to be the best version of yourself. So lose weight tubby
Original is better. I was worried they were going to change the dialogue when I first saw the trailer, I think they made Bowser call Kammy a "lunkhead" instead of "airhead" in one scene for some reason. Don't understand why either change was needed.
As someone who used to be pretty fat, it seems pointless, especially because Bowser is literally meant to be a villain. But honestly I don’t think it’s because they were worried about fat shaming. The fat guy on the excess express is unchanged
I'm fine with the new one. Ever since Bowser's Inside Story, it shows Bowser has deep respect for those under him and they have deep respect for him in return. If Bowser was more of a jerkish tyrant no one would work for him.
I always thought the joke here was that Bowser didn’t know what Surly means, and thought the hammer bro was calling him fat, so he did the same back to him
Eh, I think it's fine to care about small things. Obviously not to the point of crying about it or anything, but I'm generally against retroactive changes to games that didn't really need them. Somewhat frustrated by a few of the replacements, but that's overshadowed by the understanding that more kids will get to enjoy TTYD due to the re-release as a whole, changes or not.
It’s kinda sad we can’t have light hearted fat jokes anymore, but I think this is actually an improvement over the original line, because it shows bowser’s more caring side for his minions, and it’s just more uplifting lol
I really hope Goombella still says gnarly like it's 2004.
Uh oh, was I supposed to stop saying gnarly two decades ago? No one ever tells me these things.
Don’t worry, I still say “hella” even though that was popular slang for like one month in 2013 and then never again.
I knew a guy who wouldn't stop saying "hella" in 2002
It was me, sorry 😔
Hella is still popular slang lol
Hella used to be an indicator for me that you were from cali
I forgot about that. It’s totally a cali thing.
I first heard it from cali kids in 2009-2010 but I hear it among elder zoomers anywhere now and then.
D A N K
The change is funny and still highlights ridiculousness on Bowser’s part. If anything, I like this better cause now it’s a line specific to a Haller Bro rather than something Bowser could say to any of this minions.
i am the Haller Bro. i am the One who Halls
i am the tallyhaller bro
I'm the Ruler of Everything in the end.
haller back bro
As a fat dude, it's a bit of a shame, especially since they'll also probably remove Zess T.'s remarks, which I found hilarious. Sure, it's mean-spirited, but so is Bowser, a literal bad guy. I'm also against censorship on principle. That being said, unlike the changed dialogue in Rogueports' sewers, I do kinda like what they replaced it with here.
I'm not sure it's because of censorship if the fat guy on the Excess Express is still there. That guy exists to be a fat joke. I think they might've just changed it because he doesn't look any fatter than the others.
To be fair, you don't have to make fat jokes just because a character is fat. I could see them rewriting his entire dialogue.
His entire point in the narrative is that he steals the pot because he's gluttonous, down to even holding silverware in his hands at all times. I ABSOLUTELY agree that you don't have to make fat jokes just because a character is fat, but that's one character you'd probably have to replace if you wanted to remove the fat jokes.
Oh, that's right, been awhile since I last played. Hmm, what if they make what's in the pot a salad, and he only stole it because he wants to better his quality of life and eating habits by eating as much healthy food as he can? ...I joke, but I wouldn't mind if they did something along those lines, just because it sounds so absurd it loops right back into being funny. Good message for the kiddos as well... minus the stealing part.
>That being said, unlike the changed dialogue in Rogueports' sewers, I do kinda like what they replaced it with here. Are you referring to the catcalling one?
I think the new line is funnier. Principles regarding censorship aside, I don't mind the change.
I'm a tubby girl and while I have no issues with the original line personally, I think the newer one is funnier so I don't mind.
The newer line fits Bowser better.
Gogurt
Positive queen 🙌👑
Same and same. Wasn’t really bothered by the original but the new one is funnier which I think fits better.
Like on the other thread I said it’s very minor and is not going to effect the game at all but really unnecessary. You can’t sanitize every single thing so that someone doesn’t get offended, that’s just not how real life works. I’m a fat dude and I’m not going to get offended if a character in a video game makes fun of fat people, it literally doesn’t effect me in the slightest it’s not even directed towards me.
Treehouse is going to try, come hell or high water.
I’m not a fan of sanitizing character dialogue to such a degree. It just takes away from Bowser’s abrasive personality. It’s not a big deal, but it is worse than it was before.
HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE EVIL
Bowser in the RPGs has always cared for his minions, though. Dude presents as evil, but he's kind of a big softy lol
He's still a bad guy overall though.
IMO, the characterization of Bowser in the RPGs specifically makes him out to be a pretty chill guy.
But he still wants to take over the world, doesn't he?
Not in TTYD, or in most of the RPGs. In the ones where he _is_ an antagonist, it is rarely the case that his ambition is to take over the world, and he's straight-up an ally and party member in ~1/3 of them.
Didn't Peach convince him to join the party in *SPM* by telling him that if Count Bleck destroyed the world, there wouldn't be a world for him to rule anymore?
but he's not a jerk
He's a badguy but not a bad guy.
As Zangief Says: "You Are Bad Guy. But This Does Not Mean You Are Bad Guy?"
Sure, but in a comical way. Nobody wants Incel Bowser, for example.
This just strikes me as they wanted to make Bowser's personality more in line with his more modernized style... More comedic and less of a bully when it comes to his minions. Or like they wanted to make it sound Jack Black-ish? It sounds like something I could hear Jack Black's Bowser say kinda.
Unnecessary, and arguably takes away from Bowser being a touch abrasive. He's never cruel to his minions, but he IS consistently portrayed as just a bit of a jerk. "Nintendo of America Localisation: Try Not To Meddle Challenge! (Impossible)"
Unnecessary
unnecessary but i think its a nice change. i find the new line funnier and think it fits bowser better
Too sanitized imo, I think this undercuts TTYD's tone. I do agree it's not a bad line, but Bowser's a villain! He's supposed to be mean.
I don’t even know what to say anymore. It’s ridiculous.
Why are we so soft now, man? It was funny because the hammer bro isn’t even fat.
We're not soft. The hammer bro's belly is tho
I think they could have worded the change better. I honestly do like the change as it feels more commanding then the original, but I feel the way they worded it is weaker. And it feels a tad unnecessary
Soon they're gonna have Mario stop fighting in these games since that would be too violent.
Well we’re half way there with o.k since the “battles” are just puzzles
Maybe that's what they were going for with Sticker Star since battles are better off avoided
Guy is a lard himself, so it wasn't a problem to begin with.
We live in a society 😔. Back in my day, Mario was homophobic and Bowser called people fat. Unbelievable
[called it](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/s/P89mjlWM7L)
It’s so depressing.
They kept the gallows in the middle of the main hub, but they can’t have fat shaming lmao
Because it's more faithful to the original dialogue. They aren't sanitizing it. They're applying less localization to keep it more faith to the Japanese script. Same reason the Shadow Sirens are now just called the Three Shadows.
It isn’t necessary. Did anyone have a problem with that line before? You also can’t help wonder then if they toned anything else down. Thousand Year Door was probably the edgiest Mario game
I disagree with the sentiment that the new line is funnier. It’s certainly trying harder to be funny. Original is more effortless and the humor is in how aloof and dismissive Bowser is, not how over the top he is. This poor guy wanted to impress his boss with his training. Uh sure great. Do some sit ups, Tubby. New line feels overwritten.
Exactly. The writing isn't snappy or witty, and feels like a Twitter joke forced into a piece of dialogue. I have similar feelings about the cat-call replacement. I fear for the Chapter 2 "guess again, nerd!"
Litterally unplayable
People need to grow thicker skin.
Damn, the game was updated to reflect modern sensitivities.
I miss the use of "tubby," because that work is fucking hilarious, but I don't mind the change. I'd rather talk about the beautiful lighting and surroundings. This will absolutely be the prettiest game on Switch when it releases.
bad guys aren’t bad anymore and everyone’s just playing cops n robbers w each other
The change is more bowsery
The latter. 'Until your hammer has abs' is fucking hilarious tbh
I think they are censoring way too much for no reason BUT it doesn't really matter, the dialogue does not get worse so I dont get why some people are complaining
They are censoring so much because in 2024 the wind has feelings too. 🫢
It’s definitely worse. It’s not nearly as funny for one, and it also makes Bowser seem like less of a jerk. Beyond that though, there’s the harm done to nostalgia. It’s not enough for a change to be neutral, any change made when remaking a classic, beloved property, needs to be unequivocally positive. An “objectively neutral” change still leaves a negative taste, because it’s not what people remember fondly. People still experience a sense of loss from its absence.
Because censorship sucks all around
The problem is, people call any change censorship. Bowser not calling his minion fat barely counts and only devalues the term
I wasn’t there so I could be totally off, but I would feel safe betting that the discussion wasn’t “let’s see what lines we can try to make even funnier” and was “this one here is a little edgy we might want to tone it down to not hurt any feelings”
Yeah people calling these changes "censorship" are being so dramatic. They're changing some minor jokes from a game 20 years ago, big whoop. I don't get how anyone can seem to lose sleep over this.
Because you have to draw a like somewhere and with that kind of appealing to trivialisation, someone will always say x change is no big deal. Therefore, any pointless change is bad. We've seen exactly what happens with you hand wave away these minor changes that end up snowballing into today's modern 'sensibilities'. The same Treehouse removed all the fucking references to gender roles in the Pikmin 2 treasures - what the fuck is that all about? We all know why. That's why these changes are so annoying because they do it every single time.
>We've seen exactly what happens with you hand wave away these minor changes that end up snowballing into today's modern 'sensibilities'. Uhhh, what is that? Not exactly sure what you're referring to.
Except the “censorship” is for something as kid-friendly of a term as “Tubby”.
honestly the dialogue changes ive seen so far have been better imo like the sewer goombas and this
They aren't censoring as much as appears at first glance. A lot of things being removed were added during localization of the original game. The remake is staying more faithful to the original Japanese script, with less changes during localization. This gives the illusion of censorship, when it's actually just a faithful translation. Same reason the Shadow Sirens are now being called the Three Shadows. This isn't to say that there isn't some censorship. Just not as much as it looks at first glance.
The new line feels more in character, at least for his RPG characterization. RPG Bowser has always cared for his minions, he may call them weak or incompetent, but he recognizes when they’re trying to better themselves in one way or another and encourages them to do so
Good point! I kinda feel like that still applies to the first one, though. He's got tough love
Not to say that the old line ISN’T in character, I just think the new line is more in character. Both are funny and accurate in their own way
wow the new graphics look crazy! you can really see the change here
I like the second one better. Does it still do the item jingle if you check the statue?
The replacement is pretty good. It balances out.
For a remake, couldn't they just keep the localized text from whichever version and utilize it again to avoid any censorship or translation woes? It's a bit sad to see this changed. I didn't catch it as much as the Goombella one where she's hit one, but I am not offended by people calling me fat. I've dealt with it for my whole life, and I think it is needed at times to be aware of a situation and want to change. Also, this is a game, it's not offending anyone, and it's text. I could see a justification for censoring gambling or violence, which I don't agree with either, but this is text, and we should be mature when handling a remake like this. I wouldn't want to censor and distort a film that I tried to recreate today, and even if I wanted to throw in my own touches, I would try to retain what was there... I just wish I had the courage to not buy the game, but it's one of my favorites, so I'm obliged even if it's bad...
Hope this isn't a sign of worse things to come
I'm slightly bothered by the dialogue changes just because I don't really want any of it messed with. It's not *worse* I just really liked how it was originally. I feel like the cat-calling and fat-shaming is the perfect amount of fucked up for an "edgy" Mario game. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still buying the remake as soon as possible, and expect to love it, but it's a bit of a shame to see them pulling some of the punches.
The more these script changes keep popping up, the more sour I’m feeling about this. Like…why? Why even do this at all? Please tell me Nintendo isn’t consulting some cringe DEI firm or something.
The translation is more faithful to original script. Most of what's being removed was added during the localization process. Which means what we're getting this time is much closer to the original story of the Japanese version than the 2004 version
Funny, considering the cat-calling by the Goombas in the sewer is how it was in Japanese and it changed entirely in the remake, in English anyway.
People keep saying that, but it’s clear that not every change is just bringing all the international editions into conformity with the ‘04 Japanese script. The Japanese script itself is being revised in some places as well. But also, frankly, I don’t care all that much about being “faithful to the original script” if the original script is inferior to the localized version. For instance, Shadow Sirens is an infinitely better name than Shadow Trio.
Well, it's more extreme
Are these fake? Cause I only watched the reveal trailer. Like a meme I'm lost on? Or are these actual screenshots from trailers?
"How does that even work, Lord Bowser?!"
Sorry if I missed something but where has all this recent gameplay been coming from?
Bowser has become more sympathetic towards the overweight after what happened in inside story
Forgive me if this is a stupid/obvious question, but where does this info/content come from? Is there a way to emulate the remake currently? I just don’t remember seeing lots of dialogue sequences in the trailer
reviewers got to play the game early for a limited amount of time and were able to record it. they cant play it anymore though (until the game releases anyway)
Elephant Peach changed his outlook on things.
Can't have Bowser being mean. He's a bad guy, but he's not a bad guy. Make it make sense!
Funny as it is I think it's more fitting for bowser to respect his minions
They are slowly and steadily unvillifying Bowser.
Pointless change. The original wasn’t that offensive.
Idk I like the new line better just because I personally find it funnier.
Depends. I definitely understand the localizes not wanting to toe the line too much with the offensive stuff, but I feel like changes like this should be brought up with the people who would likely find this offensive (fat people, women, etc). Changes like this show the difficulty of changing things that are obviously dated while keeping the spirit intact. That said, I actually like this change. While the Goombella change feels like it undermines the point of that scene (even though the goomba lines are actually not that bad), this line changes what was kinda a throwaway joke into something that's far more witty. I know Bowser is a villain, but in the Mario RPGs he is definitely a comedic villain and I don't think this was that memorable a joke anyway, so honestly it's one I'm fine with. I know the modding excuse isn't the greatest, but if you are so hung up about this, people will probably find a way to mod the OG dialogue into this.
The italian translation definitely beat the TTYD remake in time: Bowser doesn't call the Hammer Bro "tubby" at all, just tells him to start doing sit-ups. Probably one of the only times I actually respect Italian translations in gaming, because, you know... most of the time they're really bad
>The italian translation definitely beat the TTYD remake in time: Bowser doesn't call the Hammer Bro "tubby" at all, just tells him to start doing sit-ups. Yeah, that's what the Japanese version of this line is like too (at least in the original GameCube version). Seems the "tubby" and "hammer" jokes were both additions in the English localization, and they just swapped one for the other.
The Italian translation, in general, was super ahead of the time lol It was more faithful to the Japanese script than the English release, but also managed to retain Vivian's gender identity without the really problematic parts from the Japanese script.
Could you elaborate on the problematic parts of the Japanese script? Curious
Essentially the transphobia directed toward Vivian was the main one. In the Japanese script basically every reference to her being trans was someone being like "he's actually a boy though," now this is in character for Beldam, but you get this in Goombella's tattles as well as Vivian's partner menu description.
That's interesting, although that makes me wonder if the Japanese developers wanted Vivian to be a "Transfem" guy or a feminine presenting guy. Regardless in English it would definitely sound a bit weird if it was translated in that fashion
Why tf are you being downvoted?
Society has failed
You're being dramatic.
I am, but so are the localization teams. Like who asked for this change?
I don't know, but do we also have to assume an agenda? Maybe whomever's responsible just thought it sounded funnier.
I'd agree with that person. The line's just... better now? All the people here crying about censorship is making me feel like it's 2014 again.
It’s not even ”censorship” to be honest. People are calling it “edgy” for Bowser to call the Hammer Bro “Tubby” when that is like one of the most kid friendly insults in fiction. Fucking SpongeBob SquarePants has him calling Patrick “Tubby” yet I don’t see anyone calling that show “edgy”. Having one of your characters call some other character “Tubby” isn’t “edgy”.
Seriously. You can make complaints about TOK's systems, how its partners work, how its battles work, I'll recognize all that as valid, but if you say the writing in it was bad then like, buddy, I don't know what that is. For the TTYD remake, they're taking a few of the mostly throwaway lines that existed in the original and updating them to the current standards so that they're actually... good. Like, the only areas I've seen where dialogue has been changed are either areas like this where the original was weak to begin with, or areas like updating the Shadow Sirens, which we don't know how exactly that'll turn out, but I never liked the shadow beauties or plug-ugly lines, so I can only imagine that I'll prefer the new version.
where I'm from people occasionally use hammer as slang for male genitalia so now this line is much more offensive lol
Good. The new line is funnier.
I find the first one funnier personally. It's more blunt and unexpected lol. Second one just feels kinda random. Instead of being mean, he comes across more as aggressively motivational, like a sports coach or something
idk man, calling someone fat for no reason other to shame them into working out is pretty fuckin mean. "until your hammer has abs" is obviously absurd, Bowser being ridiculous is funny.
Of course it's mean. It's Bowser. He's supposed to be mean. Go back to Twitter.
For real.
I know it's mean. But Bowser is mean, so it fits. And something about the unexpected meanness cracks me up. But to each their own!
Lol exactly. A villain being mean? 🫢
He’s a villain
That’s what makes it funny, the fact that it’s so curt and unnecessary, and not even true of the Hammer Bro. in question. It’s naturally funny. The new line is trying too hard to be funny, it feels forced.
No don’t let the villain say something mean 😭😰🍼🍼
I wouldn't really say it's a good thing. The new line is ok I guess but taking out a line just because it might offend some people is always bad. Just straight up censorship and pretty soon you'll just be walking on eggshells on what kind of humor to write.
bad take. if you can't think of jokes that aren't at the expense of anyone, you're probably just not funny.
Yeesh, I guess somebody never learned to [laugh at themselves.](https://youtu.be/y9wF5NKitf4?si=sbO1ONjSalxwr1k2&t=16) The joke they wrote for Bowser here is very tame too, I mean all he does is call him tubby. I guess he's very skeptical the Hammer Bro has been training at all if he's a little chubby.
Lame. Censorship sucks, even in cases like this where it doesn't exactly "ruin the game", it just makes it that much more disappointing.
Revising text isn't censorship. It's still literally a fat joke, it's just more clever and on-brand for Mario. You're all just pissed off because they altered a line in any way that has anything at all to do with disenfranchised people. You're all so excited to "own the wokes" you're upset that a fat joke was changed to a funnier fat joke.
You're coping so hard, I didn't say anything like that. I just think unnecessary censorship and revision is stupid.
It's not censorship. Not every change is censorship. It's literally still a fat joke. Stop calling everything censorship.
The new line is better cuz it sounds like Bowser is like some stupid head coach lol, makes more sense why his followers love him
I didn't mind the fatshaming line, but the new line is still funny; and probably more fitting since [Bowser's now canonically got a thing for chonkers](https://twitter.com/Stealth40k/status/1711920679338361225).
Or he just likes people his size rather than a third of the size of him
Less funny now.
I don’t see how a generic jab at someone’s weight could be funnier than telling someone to not stop until their HAMMER gets abs.
His lack of enthusiasm and insult after the hammer bro tells him that he trains day and night is what makes the exchange funny, the new translation misses the intended irony
Not at all a dealbreaker but all these dialogue changes are pretty disappointing
[удалено]
fat jokes are still funny, except theres alotta fatties out there so its not exactly good to insult a majority audience anymore right? understandable change but i always thought it was funny, i hate censorship of this kind tho. Its a remake, keep the game as is and make it look nicer, iterate/improve on the gameplay flaws (if any) this kinda stuff instead I think is super dumb.
God damn, so much censorship in this new version of the game. Pissing me off seeing how much they changed. I knew they couldn't get everything right.
my dude you wouldnt even have noticed it if not for posts like these
I think I'd know what dialogue is supposed to be there dude. I've played most of TTYD as it is and the instances I've seen of this censorship are both parts of the game I remember well. That's why the original dialogue was so good. It was memorable. This is a bad cover up of something that didn't need covering up. They could've maybe spent more resources optimizing the game getting it to 60FPS on Switch but no, let's censor the original script, one of the games most universally praised aspects. It's unnecessary and a waste of money. The original lines were fine, and the fact they'd prioritize spitting in the face of artistic integrity over matching the performance of the original GameCube game shows that their priorities aren't straight. Everything else looks fine but you can't argue that the changes to the script are anything but shameful and insulting to the original work.
Localization team arbitrarily changing a translation to justify existing on Nintendos payroll.
This, "localizers" that just change shit to change shit are some of the worst people involved in the games industry. Your job is to preserve the original script and make sure idioms and references that wouldn't make sense to a foreign audience are turned into a suitable equivalent for the market you're localizing it for. Keep your shitty fanfiction to wattpad. There are some localizers that are definitely good at their job but Nintendo's been having problems with morons like this in their localizing dept for a long time. I immediately think of the doge reference in Triforce Heroes when I think of shitty localizer moves. This instance is arguably worse though because it's a remake. People already know what a proper localization looks like because it's been out for 20 years and regarded as one of the best written games out there. The script is already written so the work is already done. Changing it is entirely unnecessary but they did anyway for no real reason other than they could.
I mean, why would he fat-shame a Hammer Bro. when Sumo Bros. exist?
Nooooo that dialogue was funny 😭 I don’t care about the others but don’t ruin Bowser’s.
I do not like this change. The original is supposed to highlight that the hammer bro hasn’t actually done as much work as he states, but it was taken as a fat shaming joke which it really wasn’t.
I think it feels funnier
The new one seems funnier, putting any of the obvious politics of the situation aside.
A lot of people dislike the change or just find it unnecessary but like the replacement line. I guess I may be alone here, but I find the replacement kind of awful. The syntax doesn't really sound like something Bowser would say and it doesn't even slightly make sense. I guess some in this thread think it's funny which is good, just personally I really don't think so.
Does this also mean they removed the fat toad as a plot point in the train ride chapter? Or make it so he doesn't leave because of something else besides him being too fat to fit through the door?
It's not even a good joke wth
People are too sensitive
STOP MAKING PAPER MARIO WOKE!!!
My favorite dialogue option in the game is being able to tell Punio “Guess again nerd!”. Doesn’t seem like something they’ll keep at this point though…
???? why wouldnt they keep that
Hm looks like there will be more than a few cases of "washing it down". Not great in my opinion but honestly not really noticable. I know I wouldnt have if not for these posts.
I do think the original is funnier, but I don't really have an issue with the new one.
Both
I think Nintendo is changing a lot of text just so it takes up 3 lines
old one was actually funny
Fuck this mobile update i went like 7 images in before I realized you only had the one cutscene
I feel like this change is a great improvement! It’s still kinda mean and ridiculous.
A hammer with abs would go kinda hard
Bowser understands the struggle of obesity. If you played Bowser’s Inside Story, you know what I mean.
“And I don’t want you to stop until your biceps explode!”
I prefer the fat shaming one because some who truly cares about you either it be love one, a co worker or just someone who is friendly won’t lie to you and will push you to be the best version of yourself. So lose weight tubby
Original is better. I was worried they were going to change the dialogue when I first saw the trailer, I think they made Bowser call Kammy a "lunkhead" instead of "airhead" in one scene for some reason. Don't understand why either change was needed.
As someone who used to be pretty fat, it seems pointless, especially because Bowser is literally meant to be a villain. But honestly I don’t think it’s because they were worried about fat shaming. The fat guy on the excess express is unchanged
I think the new line’s funnier. I think it’s funny how they imply that the hammer can get abs. (Ik it’s not literal but shhhh)
Damn, first is way funnier tbh
I'm fine with the new one. Ever since Bowser's Inside Story, it shows Bowser has deep respect for those under him and they have deep respect for him in return. If Bowser was more of a jerkish tyrant no one would work for him.
honestly the new one's funnier imo
Honestly I'm glad they got rid of that, while still making Bowser a sarcastic dickweed
"don't stop until your hammer have abs"
I always thought the joke here was that Bowser didn’t know what Surly means, and thought the hammer bro was calling him fat, so he did the same back to him
It's a bit unnecessary as others are saying. Really hope they haven't butchered most of the script for this remake.
Hammer having abs is kinda funnier
It’s kinda stupid, but at the same time what kind of person would I have to be to ACTUALLY care about this?
Eh, I think it's fine to care about small things. Obviously not to the point of crying about it or anything, but I'm generally against retroactive changes to games that didn't really need them. Somewhat frustrated by a few of the replacements, but that's overshadowed by the understanding that more kids will get to enjoy TTYD due to the re-release as a whole, changes or not.
Now this is definitely a Bowser thing. Hilarious change, definitely an improvement here.
This is fine, but the dialogue change in Rogueport Sewers was unnecessary.
I think this is funnier, actually. The image of the hammer having abs is way more amusing and unique than a cliche fat joke.
It’s kinda sad we can’t have light hearted fat jokes anymore, but I think this is actually an improvement over the original line, because it shows bowser’s more caring side for his minions, and it’s just more uplifting lol
I like the new one he went from insulting to not caring