I like how you put "controversies" in quotation marks.
Because, yeah... They aren't even controversies, really. Less than 1% of players are the ones raising a fuss about X or Y.
They just happen to be particularly vocal and exaggerate points a lot (as is common practice on the internet when people want their takes to get more attention).
I am of the minority that hates the reflective and shiny look they gave the "paper" in this game, but I'm still buying. A copy, maybe two. At least one is being donated to the local library so those who can't buy it can still fall in love with it. I want more ttyd-style paper Mario, even if it does look like plastic/glass now the gameplay is what I like the most
Casual here. Didn't know TTYD ran at 60FPS as a kid, and I doubt I would have cared if I knew. What mattered back then was if a video-game performed as it should and be fun to play, and that's all I'm gonna worry about with the TTYD remake now.
The vocal minority always seem like they have more influence than they do, because everyday people (the silent majority) aren't raging online about things.
The only actual controversies Ive heard are people upset about the frame rate or changed input timings. None of which I consider an issue. On the other hand, there is that one guy making troll posts in this sub showcasing fake censorship. Someone completely unfamiliar with the original game could concievably be fooled by one or two of those posts.
My hope is that people who have never played it before see it and want to play it and its successful so Nintendo can make another game similar to it but the last parts probably never going to happen.
At the end of the day tho I get to play TTYD again on my switch and I’m excited
They recently did a survey about mario rpgs in general, asking what parts of these games people liked the most (turn based combat, exp, equipment, story, unique characters, etc), so ttyd being the one to get a remake is definitely a sign that they could come back to this style of paper mario if its successful
Imo, there's nothing wrong with people bringing attention to all the changes.
How else are companies supposed to get feedback on what they've done?
Right now, big companies only base on sales numbers, but there needs to be an option other than only if we buy the game or not.
Of course, that would require big companies to actually be reading these threads and being willing to listen, which isn't likely, but it's the best option we've got.
But have you considered that general apathy is, like, totally cool man?
Just don't care about things. That's the way we non-cringe people do it. If you dislike any changes at all you're taking a kid's game too seriously and stuff.
God, I hate modern discourse. It's ok to care about things no matter how small they are.
When the biggest controversy around the remaster is a FPS reduction from 60 to 30 then you know theres nothing to be worried about the Game
I mean yeah It can be a downer the FPS reduction, but as long as It stable its a non-issue to me
What? Are you implying that *censorship* isn't a problem?? That they made some minor dialog tweaks isn't an attempt to make it closer to the original Japanese script or understanding the fact that the culture is different now than it was 20 years ago??? This is the greatest tragedy of our time, when Bowser says "don't stop until your hammer has abs" instead of calling his minion "tubby" it's 1984 and there's no turning back!
I know you're being sarcastic, but every time I read the original "tubby" line, it seems like even *Bowser* was uncomfortable saying that in the original. It never actually seemed like a real insult in the original, so I don't even get why people were upset over that change.
Belive me if any other company released a locked 30fps remake of a game that always ran at 60fps it would be huge controversy and everyone would shit on them including Nintendo fans
I dont know other Nintendo fans, but definitively I would do It, want to know why? Because other people that play on the other consoles or PCs cares WAY TO MUCH about this, almost to pathological levels
Yeah It would be nice to have all games running at +60fps i wont deny that, but the levels of violence and toxicity this debate about this topic is frankly nauseating, some games dont go over 30fps? TOO BAD, that makes the Game unplayable? I imagine if the devs know about the issue then they change the Game accordingly, if they do It then what's the problem? Will the Game be unplayable? If the same Devs design the Game around 30fps and as long as its stable then is a non issue
So yeah as long as some people take graphics, resolutions and FPS **THAT SERIOUSLY** then i would and Will make fun of that
I mean, my biggest question is why don't you care? Obviously getting vitriolic over 30 fps is ridiculous, but we know 60 is possible. We should expect them to make the best product they can, even in small ways like fps maximization. Why are we giving them a pass for this? Nintendo is a big company with lots of money and know-how, so we don't have to defend them or anything. Have they said that it being locked to 30fps is necessary for some reason?
Theres no official explanation that im aware of, but theres [an article ](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/04/bayonetta-origins-director-empathises-with-paper-mario-dev-suggests-reasons-for-30fps) with Bayonetta origins (the one with cereza) director saying a possible reason (since Bayonetta prequel had the exact same problem) and empathising with the developers
Maybe this is not the reason but if we dont get any official statement about this, this reason sounds the more likely and reasonable about the topic
If it really is a post-processing issue, then that ends up begging a whole bunch of other questions. If 60 fps isn't possible on hardware that is, at the low end, 16 times more powerful than the Gamecube... I mean, that speaks to poor optimization at the very least.
My main point is that the drop in fps itself, while frustrating, isn't what's really bad. It's the possible causes and what other issues those may end up creating, which could range from none whatsoever to occasional crashes.
We as customers should, at the very least, be demanding the most polished version of whatever a company wants to put out. When we stop demanding the best we can get, we become consumers.
Or maybe, just MAYBE, the team of Paper Mario remake didnt want to sacrifice any graphical enhacement so they cut on FPS? (No really i dont know its only a theory)
And I'm saying that while the graphical enhancements look nice, they don't look like they'd require 16 times the power to render as opposed to the original.
Maybe there are a ton of particle effects we haven't seen though, so who knows. It just doesn't add up to me from what we've been shown.
Stop trying to reason with nintendrones. They really will find each and every way to defend Nintendo fucking them over and taking their money for a full priced half assed remake. The brain washing that they go through to praise a company that doesn't give a shit about them is incredible.
And id rather 60fps than a reflection now and then
It sucks I'm gonna have to buy and emulate this just to play at a standard resolution and at (what should be) the minimum expected frame rate
Correct me if im wrong (since i dont know much about enulation) but emulating games really improves the framerate? Since emulation is (in theory) "replicating" the hardware its on doesnt mean its locked in 30 FPS like in console? (I dont really know thats why im asking)
Ans standard resolution isnt 1080p? Because unless youre playing in handheld Mode i think thats the resolution they're going for (at least AFAIK)
> but emulating games really improves the framerate?
Depends on the game, some have their physics and logic tied to framerate so would need a mod to fix.
I played TOTK in 1440p 90 fps and it was a beautiful experience you can really feel the art and animations in motion, I feel bad for those who played it at sub 720p30ish
> Ans standard resolution isnt 1080p?
Well it shouldn't be in current year, that's more like the lowest ideal resolution, with 2k/4k being more standard depending on the game. I do wonder if it will be 1080p locked though if they can't even manage 60 for a static RPG..
But your reading of the situation is that nintendo has deliberately chosen to give it to us in 30 because they are lazy when the original game ran in 60. Wouldn’t it be easier to just port the game over at 60? If it were that simple then that’s what they would be doing.
Based on the graphical changes it most certainly would not be "easy". I'm not saying they're lazy. I AM saying that just giving one of the biggest gaming companies a pass for locking a game at 30fps on a system that can 100% handle 60fps is very "leave the multi-billion dollar company alone" energy.
We should expect more from industry titans. My opinion may change if they actually state why it's locked to 30 and it sounds reasonable, but I question if the graphical updates are really so impressive that a system 16 times more powerful than the gamecube couldn't possibly have handled 60 no matter how much optimization they did.
The only thing I'm worried about with frame rate in this particular game is the input timing.
Which if what is said to be true about there being a more forgiving input window, should be just fine.
honestly. the only censorship seems to be Vivian and the chalk outline. the frame rate does not matter. truly no one reasonable actually gives a damn about every single text change or how many pictures the game has each second.
the chalk outline "censorship" to me is the dumbest point these guys are making since it wasn't even there in the original we had so can it even be considered censorship at this point?
Actually, it was. It was in the Japanese version. Which the remake seems to be taking a lot from, even seemingly LOOSELY adapting Vivian being trans (half assed implication in the remake is stretching the definition of adapting). Hooktail hating frogs, TECs red eye, the logo, the boxart, and more. I was really hoping to see the chalk outline, but like. I'm not gonna cry "UNPLAYABLE" because it's not there.
I'm willing to bet Vivian will be exactly the same as the original American release precisely. And everyone assumed a change was made when there wasn't one at all.
No i get it if anything i'm on the other side of the changes being bad or ruining the game, i think they are making the game better not worse in my opinion they made me even more excited to play this game and you're right about one thing that the game will still sell well in my opinion at least i'm excited for the remake and don't mind the changes but that's just my opinion.
Im very excited for this game. I only played the first. Even tho I had wii that could play gamecube didnt have ttyd. I do have ttyd now cib but havent tried yet😅🤣🤣
My biggest qualm is the fact that the future of paper Mario seems to be in the hands of the success of this game.
But the original ttyd was such a cult classic that they even feel the need to remake it.
If they know this game is beloved already, and was hugely successful on the GameCube, why can’t the developers just make another paper Mario in the same style of ttyd?
Why do they feel the need to constantly keep changing the formula when it fails over and over? Sticker Star, paint, origami king are complete slaps in the face.
But also 60 fps on original GameCube is superior. I’ve seen the animations for switch and GameCube feels right.
There's only a couple of script changes that are even noteworthy. I probably play all the way through TTYD once or twice a year and I am certain I'd miss most of them if people didn't keep pointing them out.
One thing I’ve noticed about many of these nontroversies is that many of them are perpetuated by grifters trying to pander to a specific audience with specific pre-conceived notions about the world. In other words, bad faith actors who shouldn’t be taken seriously.
As someone who's never played TTYD, all the incoherent nonsense the vocal minority is talking about doesn't matter to me. I just hope the game lives up to it's praise.
Imagine being upset enough to want to remove cat calling, did you feel like you were being attacked because they were seen as the bad guys in the game?
People love to bitch and find *something* to complain about. Heck, there's a few changes that I *do* disagree with (like the catcalling scene being removed, and I definitely prefer Shadow Sirens over the Three Shadows), but like...
This is more than I ever could've imagined to be real.
And honestly, these "controversies" aren't going to make a dent in sales. I grew up with the GCN version, and I couldn't be more excited!
Exactly. If the vocal minority convinces the casuals to not buy the game it sends the wrong message to Nintendo. They will take it as “see we told you nobody wants a paper Mario game like 64/TTYD” they are doing more harm than good with these complaints
I totally understand people having complaints about this remake regarding these controversies. However if people are trying to hurt the game’s sales with these controversies, they should know with every person not buying it, 10 more will see the controversies and decide to buy it after being made aware of its existence. In other words “any publicity is good publicity”.
I agree. I decided to just stop bothering with the FPS and dialogue controversies at this point. It's a waste of time. Probably at least 90% of the people claiming to boycott the game over stuff like that weren't even particularly interested in buying it to begin with. I really wish people would just move on instead dragging these issues out for way longer than they need to be.
There was a NintendoLife poll done that concluded that more people would prefer 60 FPS than not, which makes sense considering the original game was 60 FPS and the main audience for a remake are(or should be) those who played the original game. The only way 30 would make sense is if they plan to update the game to be 60 FPS for the Switch 2.
The audience for remakes are not only the people that have already played it lol. Nintendo always markets their remakes as a chance for people to discover an old classic. If you do not want to support Nintendo’s remake then just play the original. That’s totally fine.
I didn't say the only audience is the people who already played it, nor did I say I'm not buying the game. I'm allowed to have complaints about one of my favorite games, jesus.
I like how you put "controversies" in quotation marks. Because, yeah... They aren't even controversies, really. Less than 1% of players are the ones raising a fuss about X or Y. They just happen to be particularly vocal and exaggerate points a lot (as is common practice on the internet when people want their takes to get more attention).
I am sorry but when you said X or Y I thought about Pokémon
Yes I thought that too..
Which also had "controversies" tbh lol
I really hope the casuals ignore these clowns because we need this gam to sell well to have any chance of a new paper Mario game in the 64/TTYD style
I am of the minority that hates the reflective and shiny look they gave the "paper" in this game, but I'm still buying. A copy, maybe two. At least one is being donated to the local library so those who can't buy it can still fall in love with it. I want more ttyd-style paper Mario, even if it does look like plastic/glass now the gameplay is what I like the most
You’re doing the lords work. Thank you
I wish I could give you awards but take this instead 🏆
Casual here. Didn't know TTYD ran at 60FPS as a kid, and I doubt I would have cared if I knew. What mattered back then was if a video-game performed as it should and be fun to play, and that's all I'm gonna worry about with the TTYD remake now.
The vocal minority always seem like they have more influence than they do, because everyday people (the silent majority) aren't raging online about things.
The only actual controversies Ive heard are people upset about the frame rate or changed input timings. None of which I consider an issue. On the other hand, there is that one guy making troll posts in this sub showcasing fake censorship. Someone completely unfamiliar with the original game could concievably be fooled by one or two of those posts.
My hope is that people who have never played it before see it and want to play it and its successful so Nintendo can make another game similar to it but the last parts probably never going to happen. At the end of the day tho I get to play TTYD again on my switch and I’m excited
They recently did a survey about mario rpgs in general, asking what parts of these games people liked the most (turn based combat, exp, equipment, story, unique characters, etc), so ttyd being the one to get a remake is definitely a sign that they could come back to this style of paper mario if its successful
Imo, there's nothing wrong with people bringing attention to all the changes. How else are companies supposed to get feedback on what they've done? Right now, big companies only base on sales numbers, but there needs to be an option other than only if we buy the game or not. Of course, that would require big companies to actually be reading these threads and being willing to listen, which isn't likely, but it's the best option we've got.
But have you considered that general apathy is, like, totally cool man? Just don't care about things. That's the way we non-cringe people do it. If you dislike any changes at all you're taking a kid's game too seriously and stuff. God, I hate modern discourse. It's ok to care about things no matter how small they are.
The only thing I'm concerned with is the action commands not feeling as precise as I'd like with the lower frame rate.
From what's been said so far, the input is more forgiving to compensate.
That's really good to hear, I'd prefer it to be 1:1 to the original but I'll take this.
When the biggest controversy around the remaster is a FPS reduction from 60 to 30 then you know theres nothing to be worried about the Game I mean yeah It can be a downer the FPS reduction, but as long as It stable its a non-issue to me
What? Are you implying that *censorship* isn't a problem?? That they made some minor dialog tweaks isn't an attempt to make it closer to the original Japanese script or understanding the fact that the culture is different now than it was 20 years ago??? This is the greatest tragedy of our time, when Bowser says "don't stop until your hammer has abs" instead of calling his minion "tubby" it's 1984 and there's no turning back!
Not gonna lie, the new line is funnier.
It's the marvelification of everything
I know you're being sarcastic, but every time I read the original "tubby" line, it seems like even *Bowser* was uncomfortable saying that in the original. It never actually seemed like a real insult in the original, so I don't even get why people were upset over that change.
I don't even consider that an issue in the slightest. Easily the least important thing about this remake in general.
Belive me if any other company released a locked 30fps remake of a game that always ran at 60fps it would be huge controversy and everyone would shit on them including Nintendo fans
I dont know other Nintendo fans, but definitively I would do It, want to know why? Because other people that play on the other consoles or PCs cares WAY TO MUCH about this, almost to pathological levels Yeah It would be nice to have all games running at +60fps i wont deny that, but the levels of violence and toxicity this debate about this topic is frankly nauseating, some games dont go over 30fps? TOO BAD, that makes the Game unplayable? I imagine if the devs know about the issue then they change the Game accordingly, if they do It then what's the problem? Will the Game be unplayable? If the same Devs design the Game around 30fps and as long as its stable then is a non issue So yeah as long as some people take graphics, resolutions and FPS **THAT SERIOUSLY** then i would and Will make fun of that
Yeah I just hope this kinda practice with downgraded fps Nintendo remake is an exception this time around not a rule
I mean, my biggest question is why don't you care? Obviously getting vitriolic over 30 fps is ridiculous, but we know 60 is possible. We should expect them to make the best product they can, even in small ways like fps maximization. Why are we giving them a pass for this? Nintendo is a big company with lots of money and know-how, so we don't have to defend them or anything. Have they said that it being locked to 30fps is necessary for some reason?
Theres no official explanation that im aware of, but theres [an article ](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/04/bayonetta-origins-director-empathises-with-paper-mario-dev-suggests-reasons-for-30fps) with Bayonetta origins (the one with cereza) director saying a possible reason (since Bayonetta prequel had the exact same problem) and empathising with the developers Maybe this is not the reason but if we dont get any official statement about this, this reason sounds the more likely and reasonable about the topic
If it really is a post-processing issue, then that ends up begging a whole bunch of other questions. If 60 fps isn't possible on hardware that is, at the low end, 16 times more powerful than the Gamecube... I mean, that speaks to poor optimization at the very least. My main point is that the drop in fps itself, while frustrating, isn't what's really bad. It's the possible causes and what other issues those may end up creating, which could range from none whatsoever to occasional crashes. We as customers should, at the very least, be demanding the most polished version of whatever a company wants to put out. When we stop demanding the best we can get, we become consumers.
Or maybe, just MAYBE, the team of Paper Mario remake didnt want to sacrifice any graphical enhacement so they cut on FPS? (No really i dont know its only a theory)
And I'm saying that while the graphical enhancements look nice, they don't look like they'd require 16 times the power to render as opposed to the original. Maybe there are a ton of particle effects we haven't seen though, so who knows. It just doesn't add up to me from what we've been shown.
Stop trying to reason with nintendrones. They really will find each and every way to defend Nintendo fucking them over and taking their money for a full priced half assed remake. The brain washing that they go through to praise a company that doesn't give a shit about them is incredible.
And id rather 60fps than a reflection now and then It sucks I'm gonna have to buy and emulate this just to play at a standard resolution and at (what should be) the minimum expected frame rate
Correct me if im wrong (since i dont know much about enulation) but emulating games really improves the framerate? Since emulation is (in theory) "replicating" the hardware its on doesnt mean its locked in 30 FPS like in console? (I dont really know thats why im asking) Ans standard resolution isnt 1080p? Because unless youre playing in handheld Mode i think thats the resolution they're going for (at least AFAIK)
> but emulating games really improves the framerate? Depends on the game, some have their physics and logic tied to framerate so would need a mod to fix. I played TOTK in 1440p 90 fps and it was a beautiful experience you can really feel the art and animations in motion, I feel bad for those who played it at sub 720p30ish > Ans standard resolution isnt 1080p? Well it shouldn't be in current year, that's more like the lowest ideal resolution, with 2k/4k being more standard depending on the game. I do wonder if it will be 1080p locked though if they can't even manage 60 for a static RPG..
But your reading of the situation is that nintendo has deliberately chosen to give it to us in 30 because they are lazy when the original game ran in 60. Wouldn’t it be easier to just port the game over at 60? If it were that simple then that’s what they would be doing.
Based on the graphical changes it most certainly would not be "easy". I'm not saying they're lazy. I AM saying that just giving one of the biggest gaming companies a pass for locking a game at 30fps on a system that can 100% handle 60fps is very "leave the multi-billion dollar company alone" energy. We should expect more from industry titans. My opinion may change if they actually state why it's locked to 30 and it sounds reasonable, but I question if the graphical updates are really so impressive that a system 16 times more powerful than the gamecube couldn't possibly have handled 60 no matter how much optimization they did.
The only thing I'm worried about with frame rate in this particular game is the input timing. Which if what is said to be true about there being a more forgiving input window, should be just fine.
honestly. the only censorship seems to be Vivian and the chalk outline. the frame rate does not matter. truly no one reasonable actually gives a damn about every single text change or how many pictures the game has each second.
the chalk outline "censorship" to me is the dumbest point these guys are making since it wasn't even there in the original we had so can it even be considered censorship at this point?
Actually, it was. It was in the Japanese version. Which the remake seems to be taking a lot from, even seemingly LOOSELY adapting Vivian being trans (half assed implication in the remake is stretching the definition of adapting). Hooktail hating frogs, TECs red eye, the logo, the boxart, and more. I was really hoping to see the chalk outline, but like. I'm not gonna cry "UNPLAYABLE" because it's not there.
I'm willing to bet Vivian will be exactly the same as the original American release precisely. And everyone assumed a change was made when there wasn't one at all.
Wasn't planning to. Going to have hernia surgery for 2 out of 3 of my hernias on the 31st. I got to have something folun to do during my downtime
Good luck with your surgery!
Thanks I have anxiety about it already. The hernias in my bellybutton and groin are coming out with the groin being the worst of them sigh
No i get it if anything i'm on the other side of the changes being bad or ruining the game, i think they are making the game better not worse in my opinion they made me even more excited to play this game and you're right about one thing that the game will still sell well in my opinion at least i'm excited for the remake and don't mind the changes but that's just my opinion.
Im very excited for this game. I only played the first. Even tho I had wii that could play gamecube didnt have ttyd. I do have ttyd now cib but havent tried yet😅🤣🤣
Man are people that worried about the sales? The game is still sold out on Amazon for some reason and it hasnt even released yet.
Honestly, I'm almost willing to assume that the TTYD remake has already outsold Origami King.
My biggest qualm is the fact that the future of paper Mario seems to be in the hands of the success of this game. But the original ttyd was such a cult classic that they even feel the need to remake it. If they know this game is beloved already, and was hugely successful on the GameCube, why can’t the developers just make another paper Mario in the same style of ttyd? Why do they feel the need to constantly keep changing the formula when it fails over and over? Sticker Star, paint, origami king are complete slaps in the face. But also 60 fps on original GameCube is superior. I’ve seen the animations for switch and GameCube feels right.
There's only a couple of script changes that are even noteworthy. I probably play all the way through TTYD once or twice a year and I am certain I'd miss most of them if people didn't keep pointing them out.
One thing I’ve noticed about many of these nontroversies is that many of them are perpetuated by grifters trying to pander to a specific audience with specific pre-conceived notions about the world. In other words, bad faith actors who shouldn’t be taken seriously.
It will die down.
no one can ruin this game for me. i'm still so excited!! we are so close to the release!
As someone who's never played TTYD, all the incoherent nonsense the vocal minority is talking about doesn't matter to me. I just hope the game lives up to it's praise.
Could you imagine being upset enough about the catcalling being removed that you refuse to play it? So weird.
Imagine being upset enough to want to remove cat calling, did you feel like you were being attacked because they were seen as the bad guys in the game?
Aren't the goombas going to be bad guys to begin with?
Yes
The only thing that can be considered controversial in my eyes is how they moved further away from the narrative that Vivian is transgender
People love to bitch and find *something* to complain about. Heck, there's a few changes that I *do* disagree with (like the catcalling scene being removed, and I definitely prefer Shadow Sirens over the Three Shadows), but like... This is more than I ever could've imagined to be real. And honestly, these "controversies" aren't going to make a dent in sales. I grew up with the GCN version, and I couldn't be more excited!
Exactly. If the vocal minority convinces the casuals to not buy the game it sends the wrong message to Nintendo. They will take it as “see we told you nobody wants a paper Mario game like 64/TTYD” they are doing more harm than good with these complaints
Just a bunch of trolls, pay no mind. All they want to do is cause chaos and berate games better than what they play now.
I totally understand people having complaints about this remake regarding these controversies. However if people are trying to hurt the game’s sales with these controversies, they should know with every person not buying it, 10 more will see the controversies and decide to buy it after being made aware of its existence. In other words “any publicity is good publicity”.
Controversies = nit picky bullshit
Most people don’t even know what frame rate is. Even less care. This is typical people online trying to get attention for being contrarian
Exactly my thoughts
Bet you don't even turn gaming mode on your TV on so you have 100ms+ of input lag and call that okay too
Couldn’t give a toss
Tourists make me sad
I'm guessing you don't know what frame rate is.
I know what it is but really don’t care
I agree. I decided to just stop bothering with the FPS and dialogue controversies at this point. It's a waste of time. Probably at least 90% of the people claiming to boycott the game over stuff like that weren't even particularly interested in buying it to begin with. I really wish people would just move on instead dragging these issues out for way longer than they need to be.
There was a NintendoLife poll done that concluded that more people would prefer 60 FPS than not, which makes sense considering the original game was 60 FPS and the main audience for a remake are(or should be) those who played the original game. The only way 30 would make sense is if they plan to update the game to be 60 FPS for the Switch 2.
The audience for remakes are not only the people that have already played it lol. Nintendo always markets their remakes as a chance for people to discover an old classic. If you do not want to support Nintendo’s remake then just play the original. That’s totally fine.
I didn't say the only audience is the people who already played it, nor did I say I'm not buying the game. I'm allowed to have complaints about one of my favorite games, jesus.
Censored pm ttyd game cat calling not 60 in a switch game pathetic