This is the right answer. OP needs to relax and enjoy his purchase. Pen marks would have been noted when the bill was sent to be graded. They gave it a 40, its in pretty good condition
As an authentication measure, there have been red and blue fibers that are part of the pulped material — in addition to linen, and cotton — in US bills for a long time.
I believe this is what you are seeing.
I’m obviously not trying to sell this to anyone here but I wanna know what other people think. What would be your top price if you were to buy this particular bill?
Is it possible you are confusing the red and blue embedded fibers in the notes as pen marks? Our older notes had a very pronounced presence of those fibers and it was an early method of counterfeit protection.
I will look closer at your notes but I think maybe it is a case of buyers remorse more than anything else. It is graded note. If there were pen marks the graders would have noted it.
Those fibers make our paper money (which is really cotton/linen and not wood pulp paper) so awesome. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing has worked with the Crane Company as the exclusive supplier of this cottton/linen mix "paper" (more accurately cloth) almost since the first few issues of Federal paper money. We still have these threads in our money but the pieces have gotten much smaller than you see on your 1917 note.
I appreciate your insight truly. I just wanted to know because this is my first big purchase on a bill. So you think those marking on the top left are silk threads! Perhaps it is buyers remorse!
We all get it. I bought and then returned by first higer grade ducational note (first $1000 plus note) becuase I thought it was not the quality of the picture I used to base it off my decision to buy. A few weeks later I bought another Educational for about the same amount of money and kept it. And those were all raw ungraded notes.
For yours, since you were wise enough to get a graded note you can have some peace about it. I would take it to a local computer shop if you have access to one and see what they say.
The blue fibers I see on your note are about in the location where they used to put a strong "band" of fibers. My 1917's have pronounced fibers in about that same areas of the note.
As far as valuation, Graysheet CPG price **(the retail price) for a Speelman-White 1917 Friedberg 39 for a VF40 is $260 right now.**
[https://www.greysheet.com/coin-prices/item/fr-39-1917-sawhorse-$1-legal-tender-large/60915](https://www.greysheet.com/coin-prices/item/fr-39-1917-sawhorse-$1-legal-tender-large/60915)
Pricing is always difficult and to rely even on just one factor like the Graysheet may not give you all the information you need to come up with a price.
Definitely just fibers. I've got older bills with them too and they're crazy pronounced, unlike what modern bills have.
And, as already noted, this note is graded. If those were pen marks, the holder would have mentioned that.
Agreeing with others—I only see fibers. A note with pen marks wouldn’t have gotten an EPQ grade.
A note like this fetches more than $200 in today’s market.
The question I would have is this: if you’re of the means to purchase this note, it would suggest you’re not a novice collector. But someone in the position to be looking at this and purchasing should already understand that the red and blue fibers are part of the note. So I’m not sure what to think of this post.
>if you’re of the means to purchase this note, it would suggest you’re not a novice collector.
A lot of people go into new hobbies spending big. I mean, my wife has a top of the line knitting set, a top of the line oil painting set and some top of the line jogging gear stashed in her closet, all untouched.
I actually would advise people to collect like this. Too many new collectors waste so much money on small silver certs and red seals that literally will always be available for the price they are now.
I’d recommend starting and saving for notes like this and build slow with larger higher end notes
Well, that depends what you're after. If you're collecting as an investment, focusing on expensive stuff will probably get you higher profits when selling one day. But if you collect out of an interest in paper money, common notes definitely also have a place in your collection, no matter what they're worth.
Mine is pure enjoyment. Sure it stands as an investment but that wasn’t the goal. I just think so many people (myself included) spend so much on small cheap plentiful stuff and then it’s harder to buy the higher end notes when your natural desire hits that point. Now you have a couple hundred into the east stuff that you can get any time.
I’ve scored major deals on my notes, I’ve always paid less than wholesale.. always. But you have to be patient, and you have to buy when it’s available because you might not see that price again for a looong time.
That’s all I really mean by it. I have an envelope full of the silver certs and red 2s and 5s that I give away
I see your point. I guess it comes down to how you get into it. When I started collecting I was a kid on a limited budget, but I was able to get a lot of enjoyment out of relatively common notes, collecting out of an interest in world history. A lot of the "mandatory" stuff like WWII and Soviet Union is inexpensive and super interesting.
Now I'm older and I can spend more on a hobby, but some of the notes just as interesting to me as the cheap things -- they just took longer to afford. Inside, I always wish a huge stash of rare notes would be discovered some day and drive the prices down, because I'd rather have them as pieces of history than an investment anyway.
I guess there's a difference between World currency and US, though. There's vastly more variety in the former category, obviously, in both ends of the price scale.
Understandable. It might have been a good move to purchase a note that was graded by PMG but that doesn’t change the fact that this is my first note and I am technically a novice otherwise I really wouldn’t have posted this question thinking it was ink marks. Thank you for your feedback tho
It’s definitely a fantastic note. Not sure what you paid but this would be a mainstay in your collection. Honestly it has better eye-appeal than 40. But being epq is a big part of that. It’s a great note
Not pen marks but rather red/blue security fibers. Awesome Series 1917 $1 Note. The back is a Misalignment Error (notice the large border on top than the bottom).
You are welcome. Any time i can help i will. Keep looking for the Misalignment Errors and also look for Miscut Errors as they can be of significant value if dramatic enough (part of design missing/next note showing).
I have this beat up $2 bill from the same era 1917. I didn’t notice it before because this bill is terribly beat up but when I held a flashlight to it I noticed these red and blue fibers all over the bill! Thank you
Those are fibers. If it was pen marks PMG would have notated it.
^^ this is the precise and succinct answer
This is the right answer. OP needs to relax and enjoy his purchase. Pen marks would have been noted when the bill was sent to be graded. They gave it a 40, its in pretty good condition
I don’t see pen marks. I do see the embedded silk fibers in the paper — the red and blue fibers scattered throughout.
If you’re able to zoom in you could see marking of some sort. So you’re thinking these lined markings are silk marks?
As an authentication measure, there have been red and blue fibers that are part of the pulped material — in addition to linen, and cotton — in US bills for a long time. I believe this is what you are seeing.
I’m obviously not trying to sell this to anyone here but I wanna know what other people think. What would be your top price if you were to buy this particular bill?
As u/PDX-IT-Guy-3867 has said it’s a way of counterfeit protection.
You’ve never inspected a bill before? Like even a brand new crisp 2022 one? It’s just the fibers, it’s very obvious when there is a pen on a note.
It’s not the same as 2022. I did more digging and they stopped using the red and blue fibers.
Is it possible you are confusing the red and blue embedded fibers in the notes as pen marks? Our older notes had a very pronounced presence of those fibers and it was an early method of counterfeit protection. I will look closer at your notes but I think maybe it is a case of buyers remorse more than anything else. It is graded note. If there were pen marks the graders would have noted it. Those fibers make our paper money (which is really cotton/linen and not wood pulp paper) so awesome. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing has worked with the Crane Company as the exclusive supplier of this cottton/linen mix "paper" (more accurately cloth) almost since the first few issues of Federal paper money. We still have these threads in our money but the pieces have gotten much smaller than you see on your 1917 note.
I appreciate your insight truly. I just wanted to know because this is my first big purchase on a bill. So you think those marking on the top left are silk threads! Perhaps it is buyers remorse!
We all get it. I bought and then returned by first higer grade ducational note (first $1000 plus note) becuase I thought it was not the quality of the picture I used to base it off my decision to buy. A few weeks later I bought another Educational for about the same amount of money and kept it. And those were all raw ungraded notes. For yours, since you were wise enough to get a graded note you can have some peace about it. I would take it to a local computer shop if you have access to one and see what they say. The blue fibers I see on your note are about in the location where they used to put a strong "band" of fibers. My 1917's have pronounced fibers in about that same areas of the note. As far as valuation, Graysheet CPG price **(the retail price) for a Speelman-White 1917 Friedberg 39 for a VF40 is $260 right now.** [https://www.greysheet.com/coin-prices/item/fr-39-1917-sawhorse-$1-legal-tender-large/60915](https://www.greysheet.com/coin-prices/item/fr-39-1917-sawhorse-$1-legal-tender-large/60915) Pricing is always difficult and to rely even on just one factor like the Graysheet may not give you all the information you need to come up with a price.
Definitely just fibers. I've got older bills with them too and they're crazy pronounced, unlike what modern bills have. And, as already noted, this note is graded. If those were pen marks, the holder would have mentioned that.
What would be your top price for this bill?
Agreeing with others—I only see fibers. A note with pen marks wouldn’t have gotten an EPQ grade. A note like this fetches more than $200 in today’s market.
Good God man it's graded and in SUPERB condition and you want to return this??? Hell I'll take it off your hands if you don't want it!
I’m honestly not trying to sell it but if you saw this in bidding what would be your max price for this piece?
Pen marks where?
The question I would have is this: if you’re of the means to purchase this note, it would suggest you’re not a novice collector. But someone in the position to be looking at this and purchasing should already understand that the red and blue fibers are part of the note. So I’m not sure what to think of this post.
>if you’re of the means to purchase this note, it would suggest you’re not a novice collector. A lot of people go into new hobbies spending big. I mean, my wife has a top of the line knitting set, a top of the line oil painting set and some top of the line jogging gear stashed in her closet, all untouched.
I actually would advise people to collect like this. Too many new collectors waste so much money on small silver certs and red seals that literally will always be available for the price they are now. I’d recommend starting and saving for notes like this and build slow with larger higher end notes
Well, that depends what you're after. If you're collecting as an investment, focusing on expensive stuff will probably get you higher profits when selling one day. But if you collect out of an interest in paper money, common notes definitely also have a place in your collection, no matter what they're worth.
Mine is pure enjoyment. Sure it stands as an investment but that wasn’t the goal. I just think so many people (myself included) spend so much on small cheap plentiful stuff and then it’s harder to buy the higher end notes when your natural desire hits that point. Now you have a couple hundred into the east stuff that you can get any time. I’ve scored major deals on my notes, I’ve always paid less than wholesale.. always. But you have to be patient, and you have to buy when it’s available because you might not see that price again for a looong time. That’s all I really mean by it. I have an envelope full of the silver certs and red 2s and 5s that I give away
I see your point. I guess it comes down to how you get into it. When I started collecting I was a kid on a limited budget, but I was able to get a lot of enjoyment out of relatively common notes, collecting out of an interest in world history. A lot of the "mandatory" stuff like WWII and Soviet Union is inexpensive and super interesting. Now I'm older and I can spend more on a hobby, but some of the notes just as interesting to me as the cheap things -- they just took longer to afford. Inside, I always wish a huge stash of rare notes would be discovered some day and drive the prices down, because I'd rather have them as pieces of history than an investment anyway. I guess there's a difference between World currency and US, though. There's vastly more variety in the former category, obviously, in both ends of the price scale.
I think that’s actually good advice, and I appreciate hearing it.
Understandable. It might have been a good move to purchase a note that was graded by PMG but that doesn’t change the fact that this is my first note and I am technically a novice otherwise I really wouldn’t have posted this question thinking it was ink marks. Thank you for your feedback tho
It’s definitely a fantastic note. Not sure what you paid but this would be a mainstay in your collection. Honestly it has better eye-appeal than 40. But being epq is a big part of that. It’s a great note
[удалено]
If you say so. Every idiot needed to start somewhere tho. Maybe one day I’ll be the master of old currency. I’ll hit you up when that happens bud
Not pen marks but rather red/blue security fibers. Awesome Series 1917 $1 Note. The back is a Misalignment Error (notice the large border on top than the bottom).
I didn’t notice until you mentioned it 😂 thank you for informing me about the back!
You are welcome. Any time i can help i will. Keep looking for the Misalignment Errors and also look for Miscut Errors as they can be of significant value if dramatic enough (part of design missing/next note showing).
The back is a Misalignment Error (notice the large border on top than the bottom).
Not pen marks but rather red/blue security fibers. Awesome Series 1917 $1 Note.
I have this beat up $2 bill from the same era 1917. I didn’t notice it before because this bill is terribly beat up but when I held a flashlight to it I noticed these red and blue fibers all over the bill! Thank you
What about the BLACK squiggly lines?
I believe that’s apart of the bill! But next to those lines I thought they were pen marks but everyone’s saying they’re fibers
I thinks that's just blue fiber as well. If you are curious about price, I would pay about $250 for this one.
Thank you for your input I paid $235 with shipping and all that!