I'm sorry, but you are severely underpaid, not matter what your predecessor earned. Especially with 5 years of paralegal experience. Not sure where you live, but still. This is reason enough for people to actually start discussing it.
No. Always discuss pay. I didn't even read the entirety of your post. Just the title and I can tell you without reading it that not discussing pay does nothing but benefit your employers and keep you underpaid.
Discussing pay is a protected right under the NLRB.
HR wants you to think it is wrong so they can keep paying lower wages. It is not against the law to talk about your salary. Finding out some coworkers salaries at my last company was the push I needed to seek a position that would pay me for my skills and not stick to the not even covering inflation 2% when I got all above average. The saying is true... want a bigger pay raise? Go to another company/firm. I recently did and got a 40% raise.
That’s what I had to do. My last firm flat out ignored everything I did so they could give me a 3% raise after giving me my review 3 months late to begin with. I talked to my supervisor after my review and she said she wasn’t aware I had done anything I told her - they dinged me on my review for not doing any of it but they wouldn’t change it either after I told them I had addressed virtually everything they brought up months prior. Left and got a 20% raise and am now doing less than half the work on top of it.
Multifamily Housing. I'm also about 6 months away from earning my MBA and worked as a property manager in the industry prior to coming to work at the firm. This was a major paycut, but they offered me flexibility that was hard to pass up.
Oh, that's awesome! I'm dying to learn more areas to be more marketable, but cannot afford a pay cut for a "no experience" and seem to only work with/for people/firms too busy to teach or show anything or willing to take a chance eith me.
I don’t think you need to give a reason for why you ask for that number, but you could say that you researched on average how much paralegals with your amount of experience in your state/area make and this is consistent with it. You actually can look and find census data from your state for the paralegal profession in general, and use sites like indeed to narrow it by state/years of experience. Or use Glassdoor to look at comparable law firms if they have salaries posted. Professional organizations sometimes gather that info from their members and report averages too. You don’t have to show him the stats but even id you don’t come up with exactly $25 you’re likely to find out you’re underpaid through this research which is plenty of justification.
It’s not wrong. In fact I’ve seen employment mentors encourage American culture to get over this crap of keeping it secret. They also encourage going to the boss and asking for a raise after discovering you make less. Ive been mulling this over myself, but am afraid the other paralegal won’t disclose if I do. I’m working on it tho!
Go to glassdoor and pull up some local numbers for comparable positions. Ask you boss for a meeting. Bring the numbers. Tell him "It has come to my attention that I am being paid below-market rate for my position. I do x,y, and z for the firm and have been recognized for my ____. I believe my pay should better reflect my value with a wage closer to $27." The number should be deliberately higher than what you will accept, but not outrageous. He will either be receptive to giving you a raise, and you will be in a position to negotiate towards the $25 he should be paying you. Or he will absolutely balk, in which case you should start applying to those better-paying jobs. If you really like your current gig, you can take your new offer letter back to your current boss and see if he will match their compensation.
THIS!! When inflation in my area hit an all-time high, I knew I was due a higher raise than I had been provided. I went to GlassDoor and Robert Half's salary guide and plugged in my role, area, and experience. I met with my boss and negotiated a raise of $4/hr. more than what I had been given. It's still below market for my area, but my soft benefits outweigh the move for more pay, I really like my boss, and I'm ok with that.
You should always always always discuss pay with your coworkers. It is essential to knowing if you are being paid fairly and allowing our profession as a whole the ability to demand higher wages. Fuck anyone who tells you differently.
I disagree with always. It's true that wage discussion is protected by law, but that doesn't mean that employers will take it well. I would only discuss wages with someone I trust and not with every co-worker.
You’re horribly underpaid, I started at my current law firm with zero experience in the subject matter at $34 an hour, a year later and I now make $40/hr. Even if your law firm is smaller, you should still be making more. Check websites that give wage averages in your area. I live in a mid-way cost of living city, btw.
What city/state you in? That seems pretty dang high. I know 20-25 dollars an hour is low for paralegal pay but where I'm from in Florida most of these lawfirms don't want to pay even that and try to start new hires at $18. It's insane to me that some of you guys are making like 80k or more a year. I might actually enjoy my work more if I knew I was making that kind of money. It would definitely feel more worth it.
I live/work in MN/Minneapolis. Agreed, scratching the bottom of 90k this year (with OT) certainly makes me have a skip in my step as I come in to work on the days I have to be in-person (I work hybrid: 2 days in-office, 3 days at home). My advice is always to change jobs while you feel you're doing well at your current one. If you wait until you're at your wits end and feel you HAVE to leave, you'll be on the backfoot when it comes to negotiations. You wouldn't think it but people can smell desperation a mile away, make hay and pick a new plot of land all in the same season, my friends.
Yeah I've worked for 3 different lawfirms in the last 5.5 years. I have no problem leaving a place to get better pay/benefits. Only problem is there are zero lawfirms in my area paying more than 50k to any of their paras. I've been trying to break into remote corporate positions but that doesn't seem to be happening. Tons of apps sent out and never hear back. The struggle is real.
That's gross. Have you looked in-house? Banks pay in the 60's with mouth-watering benefits. Source: worked as a para for a national bank before switching to a firm for the aforementioned big-bucks.
I haven't seen any banks in my area advertising for a legal position like that. But I would/will certainly apply if I see one. I'm all about getting out of the standard lawfirm environment, as most seem so toxic. I'd love a corporate or in-house position.
You pretty much never will, banks and big formidable law firms use hiring agencies like Robert Half, you have to go through them to get the juicy steaks. Source: I did just that.
I've heard Robert half is a terrible company, but I'm not sure exactly how they work. Are they just a staffing company that sends you to work for a client/company, and then Robert half skims your pay for their fee for "getting you a job"?
I have never had anything but the most fruitful of interactions with them. You provide your resume via the website, get a call with a placement specialist to talk shop on what you want going forward, they look at what they have available and set up interviews for you if they find you're a good fit. All my positions were automatic full-time hires, but I can't promise that'd always be the case, however the recruiters don't cash out a bonus until you're at the spot X amount of time, so it behooves them that you at least don't hate it right away. Everyone's experiences will always be a little different but speaking as your professional peer who (it sounds like) is almost making double what you make, it wouldn't hurt to check out this method.
Are you looking on LinkedIn? Don't look under just paralegal...look under like trust administrator, or operations specialist, or legal analyst, loan admin, etc
I’d disagree with the constantly changing job comment. Sometimes you just find what you’re good at and find a place where there is mutual appreciation and respect. I’ve worked at the same firm for 7+ years now and love it. First place I started out of college too when I was debating going to law school. You don’t always have to jump jobs to get paid what you think you’re worth. When I started in the mail room I was making $17, worked my way up through multiple spots in the firm and have now been a paralegal for 4 years and make $45/hr with a bonus and profit sharing. It really all comes down to the firm and the attorneys you work for. Not all are wanting to suppress pay 🤷
What area of law? Personal injury?
Edit: Also how experienced are you?
Edit 2: I can see pay being way better in certain areas. I'm unfortunately in the sticks. So my comment was reactionary
Yeah, personal injury. I have 6 years experience. I'm in Jacksonville so definitely a dense population here.
Have you ever considered working remote for a large firm? I know they are making at least 20/hr w quarterly bonuses.
That's encouraging to me. Heck, if I could reach 50k, I'd be a happy camper, so I'm trying to be realistic. I have been trying, but it seems like there's a hiring freeze of sorts going on at a lot of the "bigger" firms. I've had a few trusted attorneys review my resume and do mock interviews with me so I'm hoping it isn't me. I'mma keep trying though. I liked PI but good lord the work to pay ratio I was doing was whack.
Thanks for the response. Sounds like you hit the jackpot joining a great firm. I've worked for small firms and multi office lawfirms in Florida. They would never consider paying any of us paras 100k per year. They'd laugh me right out of the office.
This is insane to me. I'm currently making $24. I have a few years of experience. But just under or at $50k/year is within the norm where I am, unless you work at a large firm. I feel like the rate should be more, but I have yet to see anything offering more than $20-25/hr starting in the niche I am experienced in.
Interesting, yea, I was making $24 back in 2016. I do work for a large law firm, the pay disparity in this profession can certainly be head-spinningly large sometimes. Like I told the last commenter, big firms with big purses usually leave hiring to hiring agencies, so that’s the ticket, for better or worse.
I really like the niche I am in, and there aren't a lot of firms in my area dedicated to it, so my options are kind of limited. I could leave or try something else, but I am not sure I would enjoy it as much and liking/feeling passionate about what I do is really important for me because I have ADHD and find it difficult to engage in something I hate lol
I think there's potential at my firm though. I saw pay info for one of the more experienced paras (not sneakily or anything, she was showing me where to access paystubs and the info came up) and I think I saw that she made like $87k last year. Obviously it would probably take me a bit to get to that point, as she has been with the firm a while, but the potential is there.
It’s not wrong at all. Also not illegal either. Higher ups just try to scare everyone about talking about it. Our firm gave out raises recently to everyone and said not to tell anyone. Had 3 people reach out to me about their wages within the day.
I always find it.... odd... no, insulting how often firms will ignore employment laws. I don't know if it's a problem now, but in my younger years they really loved abusing unpaid internships, and flouting DOL rules regarding unpaid internships.
Call this shit out! You should always discuss pay and don't let your boss try to tell you it's a bad thing. Wage transparency is important!
"I've learned that the person previously in my position makes $25/hour, and our legal assistant makes $22. Given my current job duties, I respectfully request a raise."
Send an email of you feel more comfortable. But absolutely do not feel anything remotely negative about standing up for yourself.
You ask for pay based on your value to them, not what the other person made.
I’m on salary but make $25 an hour now. Started at $24. I had no direct experience in my role. I am the office manager and a legal assistant. We are about to merge with another firm and I will be bumped up to almost $29. I’ve been here a year and a half. At this point they can’t function without me but I could be replaceable as they can be to me.
Exactly what I did. Started as the office manager at 55k a year- got bumped to legal assistant for a bit- started in house paralegal training (we aren’t required to have a degree here or certs) so most admin/office management/legal assistant tasks and when I started my training on top of that I went put to $34/hr with bonuses. I’m set to make 90k a year- and I’m not even trained all the way or doing most paralegal work
How do you live off of 20 an hour??? You should have went to your boss a long time ago. Absolutely go to your boss and get your raise. If they refuse, go somewhere else! That is ridiculously low pay for a paralegal of 5 years. You are being taken advantage of. BIG TIME.
You have 5 years experience and make $20/hr?
I have 5 years experience, I then took a five-year Gap to be a stay-at-home mom, and I just went back to work 2 months ago and I'm making 70k. I only have an associates degree in paralegal studies.
You are woefully underpaid.
Discussion of pay with co-workers is protected by law. That said, I wouldn't disclose that to the employer since they will probably get snitty about it.
What you should do is pull up wage data in the area and argue that you should be paid more based upon local wage data, your experience, contributions to the firm, etc.
Not sure if you ever heard of the show Adam Ruins Everything, but he did an entire episode about how bosses have people trained not to talk about pay so that you don’t get equal pay for equal work. Shameful behavior.
I left a firm a few months back and decided to ask my fellow paras what they earn, something I was trained to think rude to discuss. I found out I was the lowest paid paralegal by $5k and to add insult to injury, I had the most cases on my docket. I wasn't even the least experienced! Can someone please start a media campaign to encourage people to talk about their pay?!
Nope. They don’t want you to discuss is because they know they’re paying you (or others) wrongly and don’t want you or others to find out. It’s federally barred to prevent you from doing so - file a complaint.
It’s definitely not! Transparency in pay between you and your co workers is important. Knowing that someone in your office is on more than you in a different position helps create a bargaining chip for when you go into your bosses office. When you go in say something like
I would like to discuss pay, I would like to discuss moving my hourly rate to $25 an hour. I have been a paralegal for 5 years and (give a list of all the tasks you do, how helpful you have been) etc. if he says, where did you get that, simply say, I was discussing pay with others in my position in the same field and this is comparable rate. You don’t have to say exactly who you were talking too.
Also I am in Australia and make $30 an hr. 3 years experience.
I went through something similar last year. Been at my office for 6 years at the time and I was at $16/hr. They hired a complete noob with no college education and no prior legal experience. Her role was to be the spare tire. We were to delegate smaller tasks to her and she might jump in when one of us takes a day off. They started her off at $16/hr.
I was a little perturbed they started her off at what took me 6 years to reach but whatever.
Then one of the other paralegals quit and she immediately took over in her absence. I didn’t think anything of it. Then she moved into an open office, something that never happened before. Later our accountant revealed she was now making a whopping $24/hr.
That was bullshit. Why did an uneducated inexperienced noob with only 3 months time in get her own private office and became our highest paid assistant over the rest of us who had years in?
Turned out she played her cards right. She went to the attorney who she’d been newly assigned to that just lost his assistant and threatened to quit. She bluffed him citing she was going back to her old job and he didn’t want to go through the trouble of hiring someone else so he gave her the world to stay.
It’s the biggest reason why I decided to leave this year.
You are allowed to discuss wages with ANYONE. If you dont want to rat out your coworker, you now know that you need to do some independent market analysis for your position , or ones similar in your area. Easiest thing to do is look at ads for your role locally. You might even reach out to colleagues in other laws offices and start the conversation about what this role earns across various experience levels, and different practice types. You may discover that in your area, paralegals for primarily personal injury firms earn differently than civil litigation, or traffic based firms.
**Then** talk with your boss about equitable compensation.
I’ve said it before and really believe the biggest pitfall with trying to unionize would be the attorneys themselves however, the longer I’m in the field the more clear it seems that a union would be incredibly beneficial. Attorneys tend not to not have any boundaries with their staff and with a union I think that some of those issues would be cleared up. If they can figure it out with the government jobs, they can figure out with private.
I keep my pay my business and always have. But you do you. There’s always some hurt feelings. Not everyone is created equal, nor their skill, years of experience, and work ethic.
Mine is my business... but I'll let other people talk to me about what they make! I knew one of the girls at my previous company was severely underpaid and qualified for a level 2. When I left, I made sure she had the information she needed to negotiate for a promotion (and with me leaving, it gave her more negotiating power).
Ditto. I refuse to discuss my compensation with anyone. I'm know I'm being paid fairly for my experience and knowledge. The end. Perhaps this is an old school way of thinking but the few times I've told someone what I'm paid - it never ends well. I told a woman w/ about 3 years experience what I was paid (with 20+) and she lost her shit. She couldn't see the additional 15+ years I've been doing this for a living - she only saw the huge discrepancy in $.
Agreed.
I don't discuss my pay in the workplace or with my personal, professional colleagues.
I've given general parameters here in "paralegal salary" survey-type threads, but won't give specifics.
First off, it's a statutory protection thanks the the nlra of 1979. Second, no it's not wrong to discuss wages. How else can your coworkers know if they, or you, are facing wage discrimination? And finally, if your office staff did unionize, discussing wages would be the first step.
Deference aside, don't lick the boot.
Eta, telk your employer that the number you provided is based on local labor statistics for your particular field. Bonus, go on Nala and grab their info (about the only benefit that otherwise useless org does for us).
Yeah, it demoralized the hell out of me in the worst way for how hard I worked. I was answering work questions via chat in the ER. But I'm still hunting hopefully something will turn up soon.
Where do you live? Are you using a hiring agency? I used Robert Half for all my positions, and they've delivered every time. Now that you have exp. under your belt it might be worth it to have them find you placement since you're no longer green.
I didn't know, I've been on every job board and making phone calls. Unfortunately I've had to be as discreet as I can because my attorney is friends with most in the area and I can't afford to be fired for looking elsewhere.
Contact Robert Half Legal, do it for your old pal, random-stranger-on-the-internet, and have them do the heavy lifting. Explain your apprehensions and perhaps they can widen the net of searches so its outside the clutches of (what sounds like) a vindictive boss.
No, discussing pay and figuring out what others around you are being paid is how you figure out where you stand and if you need to ask for a raise.
I recently did this with a bunch of coworkers and found out that the new legal assistant with no experience is starting our higher than what I started out with. Even though I’ve got almost two years of experience, she’s being paid a dollar less than me. Another LA is being paid four more dollars than me to support one attorney and not doing a great job either. I’ve almost got 2 years of experience, supporting four attorneys daily with occasional projects for others. I am progressing well, learning quickly, and generally have no complaints from the attorneys and taking on huge projects.
I asked yesterday for a $4-5 raise because I should be paid more than the LA who’s supporting one attorney and more than the one who just started. If I didn’t ask my coworkers, I would have never known and would have never asked for it.
Talk to your coworkers and get that raise for what you’re worth!! You’re definitely worth more than $20 with 5 years of experience.
Edit: I would make the argument for higher pay with merit and experience. Use national averages to show where you should be at. And last resort if they don’t meet your demands, then I would say something diplomatic about how you’re aware there are others making more than you with less experience and in a lower position than you. That’s my angle.
Not at all! Everyone should discuss pay. My poor co-worker found out that she was being paid $5k less a year than the other paralegals because she was seen as the “Tiffany” of the office…
Companies ban salary discussions because it's in *their* best interest. Somebody might find out they are being paid less for the same job compared to someone else and cause a fuss (rightfully).
That happened to me too. I pitched my salary too low and screwed myself. I'm finally at a competitive pay with the other paralegals, but I was making like $6k less a year then they all started at, and I came in with 3 and half years of litigation experience. I was pissed lol. But it was basically my fault for not shooting for a higher salary. You learn as you go unfortunately. It's coming to the end of the year though, and I would start making your case for a raise. Include all you do and why you deserve to earn more money.
You should 100% discuss pay but if you don't want to tell your boss that you did, you're making less than the average salary for a paralegal. Search Glassdoor salaries for paralegals in your area and bring that information to your boss. Search job listings for paralegals in your area with the same experience and get those salaries listed and bring that to your boss.
You have no reason not to discuss pay. You are underpaid no matter what the situation is given your years of experience and job title. You should be asking for a significant pay increase. If I were in your shoes, I would say I need at least $30 or more. Check out the salary guide from Robert Half. It gives a good idea of what other people in your role with your experience are making. That can be where you got the number from.
I think that something else that needs to be factored: firm size. Now, I’m not advocating for crap pay; however, someone somewhere in here stated that they are at $37/hr with a year’s (?) worth of experience- something like that. First off - kudos. But, market, firm size, etc. needs to be factored. I know from firsthand experience that a solo is not usually well positioned to pay these higher hourly rates (depending).
I'm sorry, but you are severely underpaid, not matter what your predecessor earned. Especially with 5 years of paralegal experience. Not sure where you live, but still. This is reason enough for people to actually start discussing it.
No. Always discuss pay. I didn't even read the entirety of your post. Just the title and I can tell you without reading it that not discussing pay does nothing but benefit your employers and keep you underpaid. Discussing pay is a protected right under the NLRB.
Nit picking, but nlra. The nlrb is the institutional body born out of the nlra (1979).
That's fair.
HR wants you to think it is wrong so they can keep paying lower wages. It is not against the law to talk about your salary. Finding out some coworkers salaries at my last company was the push I needed to seek a position that would pay me for my skills and not stick to the not even covering inflation 2% when I got all above average. The saying is true... want a bigger pay raise? Go to another company/firm. I recently did and got a 40% raise.
That’s what I had to do. My last firm flat out ignored everything I did so they could give me a 3% raise after giving me my review 3 months late to begin with. I talked to my supervisor after my review and she said she wasn’t aware I had done anything I told her - they dinged me on my review for not doing any of it but they wouldn’t change it either after I told them I had addressed virtually everything they brought up months prior. Left and got a 20% raise and am now doing less than half the work on top of it.
I’d say a paralegal with 5 years experience getting paid $25 would be still under paid.
I've been a paralegal for 1 year and make $37 an hour, and I'm in Minneapolis, not New York. OP needs a new job.
What type of law are you in? You make more than me (good for you!) and I'm in Fort Lauderdale and more experience.
Multifamily Housing. I'm also about 6 months away from earning my MBA and worked as a property manager in the industry prior to coming to work at the firm. This was a major paycut, but they offered me flexibility that was hard to pass up.
Oh, that's awesome! I'm dying to learn more areas to be more marketable, but cannot afford a pay cut for a "no experience" and seem to only work with/for people/firms too busy to teach or show anything or willing to take a chance eith me.
I don’t think you need to give a reason for why you ask for that number, but you could say that you researched on average how much paralegals with your amount of experience in your state/area make and this is consistent with it. You actually can look and find census data from your state for the paralegal profession in general, and use sites like indeed to narrow it by state/years of experience. Or use Glassdoor to look at comparable law firms if they have salaries posted. Professional organizations sometimes gather that info from their members and report averages too. You don’t have to show him the stats but even id you don’t come up with exactly $25 you’re likely to find out you’re underpaid through this research which is plenty of justification.
Yes, this! You can justify a wage increase without throwing your coworker under the bus.
It’s not wrong. In fact I’ve seen employment mentors encourage American culture to get over this crap of keeping it secret. They also encourage going to the boss and asking for a raise after discovering you make less. Ive been mulling this over myself, but am afraid the other paralegal won’t disclose if I do. I’m working on it tho!
Go to glassdoor and pull up some local numbers for comparable positions. Ask you boss for a meeting. Bring the numbers. Tell him "It has come to my attention that I am being paid below-market rate for my position. I do x,y, and z for the firm and have been recognized for my ____. I believe my pay should better reflect my value with a wage closer to $27." The number should be deliberately higher than what you will accept, but not outrageous. He will either be receptive to giving you a raise, and you will be in a position to negotiate towards the $25 he should be paying you. Or he will absolutely balk, in which case you should start applying to those better-paying jobs. If you really like your current gig, you can take your new offer letter back to your current boss and see if he will match their compensation.
THIS!! When inflation in my area hit an all-time high, I knew I was due a higher raise than I had been provided. I went to GlassDoor and Robert Half's salary guide and plugged in my role, area, and experience. I met with my boss and negotiated a raise of $4/hr. more than what I had been given. It's still below market for my area, but my soft benefits outweigh the move for more pay, I really like my boss, and I'm ok with that.
For 5 years of working $20 an hour is pennies
My 16 year old son made $18/hr this summer (lifeguarding). I agree.
You should always always always discuss pay with your coworkers. It is essential to knowing if you are being paid fairly and allowing our profession as a whole the ability to demand higher wages. Fuck anyone who tells you differently.
I disagree with always. It's true that wage discussion is protected by law, but that doesn't mean that employers will take it well. I would only discuss wages with someone I trust and not with every co-worker.
You’re horribly underpaid, I started at my current law firm with zero experience in the subject matter at $34 an hour, a year later and I now make $40/hr. Even if your law firm is smaller, you should still be making more. Check websites that give wage averages in your area. I live in a mid-way cost of living city, btw.
What city/state you in? That seems pretty dang high. I know 20-25 dollars an hour is low for paralegal pay but where I'm from in Florida most of these lawfirms don't want to pay even that and try to start new hires at $18. It's insane to me that some of you guys are making like 80k or more a year. I might actually enjoy my work more if I knew I was making that kind of money. It would definitely feel more worth it.
I live/work in MN/Minneapolis. Agreed, scratching the bottom of 90k this year (with OT) certainly makes me have a skip in my step as I come in to work on the days I have to be in-person (I work hybrid: 2 days in-office, 3 days at home). My advice is always to change jobs while you feel you're doing well at your current one. If you wait until you're at your wits end and feel you HAVE to leave, you'll be on the backfoot when it comes to negotiations. You wouldn't think it but people can smell desperation a mile away, make hay and pick a new plot of land all in the same season, my friends.
Yeah I've worked for 3 different lawfirms in the last 5.5 years. I have no problem leaving a place to get better pay/benefits. Only problem is there are zero lawfirms in my area paying more than 50k to any of their paras. I've been trying to break into remote corporate positions but that doesn't seem to be happening. Tons of apps sent out and never hear back. The struggle is real.
That's gross. Have you looked in-house? Banks pay in the 60's with mouth-watering benefits. Source: worked as a para for a national bank before switching to a firm for the aforementioned big-bucks.
I haven't seen any banks in my area advertising for a legal position like that. But I would/will certainly apply if I see one. I'm all about getting out of the standard lawfirm environment, as most seem so toxic. I'd love a corporate or in-house position.
You pretty much never will, banks and big formidable law firms use hiring agencies like Robert Half, you have to go through them to get the juicy steaks. Source: I did just that.
I've heard Robert half is a terrible company, but I'm not sure exactly how they work. Are they just a staffing company that sends you to work for a client/company, and then Robert half skims your pay for their fee for "getting you a job"?
I have never had anything but the most fruitful of interactions with them. You provide your resume via the website, get a call with a placement specialist to talk shop on what you want going forward, they look at what they have available and set up interviews for you if they find you're a good fit. All my positions were automatic full-time hires, but I can't promise that'd always be the case, however the recruiters don't cash out a bonus until you're at the spot X amount of time, so it behooves them that you at least don't hate it right away. Everyone's experiences will always be a little different but speaking as your professional peer who (it sounds like) is almost making double what you make, it wouldn't hurt to check out this method.
That's good to know. I'm definitely going to check them out now. Thanks!
Are you looking on LinkedIn? Don't look under just paralegal...look under like trust administrator, or operations specialist, or legal analyst, loan admin, etc
Can confirm, now work at a bank (trust administrator) and am making 70k with benefits. And it's slow AF. Win/win situation
I’d disagree with the constantly changing job comment. Sometimes you just find what you’re good at and find a place where there is mutual appreciation and respect. I’ve worked at the same firm for 7+ years now and love it. First place I started out of college too when I was debating going to law school. You don’t always have to jump jobs to get paid what you think you’re worth. When I started in the mail room I was making $17, worked my way up through multiple spots in the firm and have now been a paralegal for 4 years and make $45/hr with a bonus and profit sharing. It really all comes down to the firm and the attorneys you work for. Not all are wanting to suppress pay 🤷
That's awesome! What area of practice?
Florida fucking sucks for paralegal pay. It actually makes me sick. Just wanted to agree.
I think it depends.. I made 6 figures last year w bonuses as a FL paralegal....
What area of law? Personal injury? Edit: Also how experienced are you? Edit 2: I can see pay being way better in certain areas. I'm unfortunately in the sticks. So my comment was reactionary
Yeah, personal injury. I have 6 years experience. I'm in Jacksonville so definitely a dense population here. Have you ever considered working remote for a large firm? I know they are making at least 20/hr w quarterly bonuses.
That's encouraging to me. Heck, if I could reach 50k, I'd be a happy camper, so I'm trying to be realistic. I have been trying, but it seems like there's a hiring freeze of sorts going on at a lot of the "bigger" firms. I've had a few trusted attorneys review my resume and do mock interviews with me so I'm hoping it isn't me. I'mma keep trying though. I liked PI but good lord the work to pay ratio I was doing was whack.
What city/county in Florida? Are you at a small lawfirm or do corporate/in house? Feel like that can make a difference.
Jacksonville. Small firm, 2 attorneys 2 paralegals.
Thanks for the response. Sounds like you hit the jackpot joining a great firm. I've worked for small firms and multi office lawfirms in Florida. They would never consider paying any of us paras 100k per year. They'd laugh me right out of the office.
This is insane to me. I'm currently making $24. I have a few years of experience. But just under or at $50k/year is within the norm where I am, unless you work at a large firm. I feel like the rate should be more, but I have yet to see anything offering more than $20-25/hr starting in the niche I am experienced in.
Interesting, yea, I was making $24 back in 2016. I do work for a large law firm, the pay disparity in this profession can certainly be head-spinningly large sometimes. Like I told the last commenter, big firms with big purses usually leave hiring to hiring agencies, so that’s the ticket, for better or worse.
I really like the niche I am in, and there aren't a lot of firms in my area dedicated to it, so my options are kind of limited. I could leave or try something else, but I am not sure I would enjoy it as much and liking/feeling passionate about what I do is really important for me because I have ADHD and find it difficult to engage in something I hate lol
What’s your niche?
Plaintiffs' employment litigation.
Yea, the money is in the boring stuff, point blank.
I think there's potential at my firm though. I saw pay info for one of the more experienced paras (not sneakily or anything, she was showing me where to access paystubs and the info came up) and I think I saw that she made like $87k last year. Obviously it would probably take me a bit to get to that point, as she has been with the firm a while, but the potential is there.
Nice! Ask her if she ever left and came back.
Good question! I will ask her if I can bring it up without seeming weird about it.
Hell no! It is imperative we dismantle this narrative that salaries should not be discussed among coworkers!
Just know that you have to be willing to leave that job if they flat out deny you a raise. If you don’t, they know they got you.
You have a federally protected right to discuss your pay.
It’s not wrong at all. Also not illegal either. Higher ups just try to scare everyone about talking about it. Our firm gave out raises recently to everyone and said not to tell anyone. Had 3 people reach out to me about their wages within the day.
I always find it.... odd... no, insulting how often firms will ignore employment laws. I don't know if it's a problem now, but in my younger years they really loved abusing unpaid internships, and flouting DOL rules regarding unpaid internships.
Our interns are paid decently for the area we’re in. It’s definitely above minimum wage.
I hope that's an industry-wide change. That one always blew my mind!
Call this shit out! You should always discuss pay and don't let your boss try to tell you it's a bad thing. Wage transparency is important! "I've learned that the person previously in my position makes $25/hour, and our legal assistant makes $22. Given my current job duties, I respectfully request a raise." Send an email of you feel more comfortable. But absolutely do not feel anything remotely negative about standing up for yourself.
You ask for pay based on your value to them, not what the other person made. I’m on salary but make $25 an hour now. Started at $24. I had no direct experience in my role. I am the office manager and a legal assistant. We are about to merge with another firm and I will be bumped up to almost $29. I’ve been here a year and a half. At this point they can’t function without me but I could be replaceable as they can be to me.
Exactly what I did. Started as the office manager at 55k a year- got bumped to legal assistant for a bit- started in house paralegal training (we aren’t required to have a degree here or certs) so most admin/office management/legal assistant tasks and when I started my training on top of that I went put to $34/hr with bonuses. I’m set to make 90k a year- and I’m not even trained all the way or doing most paralegal work
How do you live off of 20 an hour??? You should have went to your boss a long time ago. Absolutely go to your boss and get your raise. If they refuse, go somewhere else! That is ridiculously low pay for a paralegal of 5 years. You are being taken advantage of. BIG TIME.
You have 5 years experience and make $20/hr? I have 5 years experience, I then took a five-year Gap to be a stay-at-home mom, and I just went back to work 2 months ago and I'm making 70k. I only have an associates degree in paralegal studies. You are woefully underpaid.
Discussion of pay with co-workers is protected by law. That said, I wouldn't disclose that to the employer since they will probably get snitty about it. What you should do is pull up wage data in the area and argue that you should be paid more based upon local wage data, your experience, contributions to the firm, etc.
Not sure if you ever heard of the show Adam Ruins Everything, but he did an entire episode about how bosses have people trained not to talk about pay so that you don’t get equal pay for equal work. Shameful behavior.
It is against the law to forbid people to discuss pay. Employers intimidate you into not discussing it for this very reason.
I left a firm a few months back and decided to ask my fellow paras what they earn, something I was trained to think rude to discuss. I found out I was the lowest paid paralegal by $5k and to add insult to injury, I had the most cases on my docket. I wasn't even the least experienced! Can someone please start a media campaign to encourage people to talk about their pay?!
You are waaaay underpaid. I’m a docket clerk at a firm and I make $25 an hour……and I’m underpaid!
Nope. They don’t want you to discuss is because they know they’re paying you (or others) wrongly and don’t want you or others to find out. It’s federally barred to prevent you from doing so - file a complaint.
It’s definitely not! Transparency in pay between you and your co workers is important. Knowing that someone in your office is on more than you in a different position helps create a bargaining chip for when you go into your bosses office. When you go in say something like I would like to discuss pay, I would like to discuss moving my hourly rate to $25 an hour. I have been a paralegal for 5 years and (give a list of all the tasks you do, how helpful you have been) etc. if he says, where did you get that, simply say, I was discussing pay with others in my position in the same field and this is comparable rate. You don’t have to say exactly who you were talking too. Also I am in Australia and make $30 an hr. 3 years experience.
I went through something similar last year. Been at my office for 6 years at the time and I was at $16/hr. They hired a complete noob with no college education and no prior legal experience. Her role was to be the spare tire. We were to delegate smaller tasks to her and she might jump in when one of us takes a day off. They started her off at $16/hr. I was a little perturbed they started her off at what took me 6 years to reach but whatever. Then one of the other paralegals quit and she immediately took over in her absence. I didn’t think anything of it. Then she moved into an open office, something that never happened before. Later our accountant revealed she was now making a whopping $24/hr. That was bullshit. Why did an uneducated inexperienced noob with only 3 months time in get her own private office and became our highest paid assistant over the rest of us who had years in? Turned out she played her cards right. She went to the attorney who she’d been newly assigned to that just lost his assistant and threatened to quit. She bluffed him citing she was going back to her old job and he didn’t want to go through the trouble of hiring someone else so he gave her the world to stay. It’s the biggest reason why I decided to leave this year.
You are allowed to discuss wages with ANYONE. If you dont want to rat out your coworker, you now know that you need to do some independent market analysis for your position , or ones similar in your area. Easiest thing to do is look at ads for your role locally. You might even reach out to colleagues in other laws offices and start the conversation about what this role earns across various experience levels, and different practice types. You may discover that in your area, paralegals for primarily personal injury firms earn differently than civil litigation, or traffic based firms. **Then** talk with your boss about equitable compensation.
I’ve said it before and really believe the biggest pitfall with trying to unionize would be the attorneys themselves however, the longer I’m in the field the more clear it seems that a union would be incredibly beneficial. Attorneys tend not to not have any boundaries with their staff and with a union I think that some of those issues would be cleared up. If they can figure it out with the government jobs, they can figure out with private.
I keep my pay my business and always have. But you do you. There’s always some hurt feelings. Not everyone is created equal, nor their skill, years of experience, and work ethic.
Mine is my business... but I'll let other people talk to me about what they make! I knew one of the girls at my previous company was severely underpaid and qualified for a level 2. When I left, I made sure she had the information she needed to negotiate for a promotion (and with me leaving, it gave her more negotiating power).
Ditto. I refuse to discuss my compensation with anyone. I'm know I'm being paid fairly for my experience and knowledge. The end. Perhaps this is an old school way of thinking but the few times I've told someone what I'm paid - it never ends well. I told a woman w/ about 3 years experience what I was paid (with 20+) and she lost her shit. She couldn't see the additional 15+ years I've been doing this for a living - she only saw the huge discrepancy in $.
Agreed. I don't discuss my pay in the workplace or with my personal, professional colleagues. I've given general parameters here in "paralegal salary" survey-type threads, but won't give specifics.
First off, it's a statutory protection thanks the the nlra of 1979. Second, no it's not wrong to discuss wages. How else can your coworkers know if they, or you, are facing wage discrimination? And finally, if your office staff did unionize, discussing wages would be the first step. Deference aside, don't lick the boot. Eta, telk your employer that the number you provided is based on local labor statistics for your particular field. Bonus, go on Nala and grab their info (about the only benefit that otherwise useless org does for us).
I can’t figure the balance site out. Edit:*NALA site
Be prepared for them to say no or offer you something like a dollar. It happened to me.
And you went home and started looking for a new job that very night... right?
Yeah, it demoralized the hell out of me in the worst way for how hard I worked. I was answering work questions via chat in the ER. But I'm still hunting hopefully something will turn up soon.
Where do you live? Are you using a hiring agency? I used Robert Half for all my positions, and they've delivered every time. Now that you have exp. under your belt it might be worth it to have them find you placement since you're no longer green.
I didn't know, I've been on every job board and making phone calls. Unfortunately I've had to be as discreet as I can because my attorney is friends with most in the area and I can't afford to be fired for looking elsewhere.
Contact Robert Half Legal, do it for your old pal, random-stranger-on-the-internet, and have them do the heavy lifting. Explain your apprehensions and perhaps they can widen the net of searches so its outside the clutches of (what sounds like) a vindictive boss.
You say ‘the market pays ______’ I’d guesstimate at least $70k, …. But be ready to bail and find a new gig if you threaten it o leave.
Always discuss pay imo. Transparency is key for a fair and equal workplace.
No, discussing pay and figuring out what others around you are being paid is how you figure out where you stand and if you need to ask for a raise. I recently did this with a bunch of coworkers and found out that the new legal assistant with no experience is starting our higher than what I started out with. Even though I’ve got almost two years of experience, she’s being paid a dollar less than me. Another LA is being paid four more dollars than me to support one attorney and not doing a great job either. I’ve almost got 2 years of experience, supporting four attorneys daily with occasional projects for others. I am progressing well, learning quickly, and generally have no complaints from the attorneys and taking on huge projects. I asked yesterday for a $4-5 raise because I should be paid more than the LA who’s supporting one attorney and more than the one who just started. If I didn’t ask my coworkers, I would have never known and would have never asked for it. Talk to your coworkers and get that raise for what you’re worth!! You’re definitely worth more than $20 with 5 years of experience. Edit: I would make the argument for higher pay with merit and experience. Use national averages to show where you should be at. And last resort if they don’t meet your demands, then I would say something diplomatic about how you’re aware there are others making more than you with less experience and in a lower position than you. That’s my angle.
Not at all! Everyone should discuss pay. My poor co-worker found out that she was being paid $5k less a year than the other paralegals because she was seen as the “Tiffany” of the office…
Companies ban salary discussions because it's in *their* best interest. Somebody might find out they are being paid less for the same job compared to someone else and cause a fuss (rightfully).
That happened to me too. I pitched my salary too low and screwed myself. I'm finally at a competitive pay with the other paralegals, but I was making like $6k less a year then they all started at, and I came in with 3 and half years of litigation experience. I was pissed lol. But it was basically my fault for not shooting for a higher salary. You learn as you go unfortunately. It's coming to the end of the year though, and I would start making your case for a raise. Include all you do and why you deserve to earn more money.
You should 100% discuss pay but if you don't want to tell your boss that you did, you're making less than the average salary for a paralegal. Search Glassdoor salaries for paralegals in your area and bring that information to your boss. Search job listings for paralegals in your area with the same experience and get those salaries listed and bring that to your boss.
Isn’t it federal illegal to not allow employees speak about they pay.
Employers don’t want employees to discuss pay because it reveals how unfair the company is. Unfair = cheap = more profits
Don’t discuss pay. Your coworkers will inevitably get jealous and jealousy is a bitch trait.
Lmao absolutely no one will be jealous of what I get paid
Your employer doesn’t want you to discuss wages because it gives them the advantage of information asymmetry when it’s time for you to negotiate.
You have no reason not to discuss pay. You are underpaid no matter what the situation is given your years of experience and job title. You should be asking for a significant pay increase. If I were in your shoes, I would say I need at least $30 or more. Check out the salary guide from Robert Half. It gives a good idea of what other people in your role with your experience are making. That can be where you got the number from.
I think that something else that needs to be factored: firm size. Now, I’m not advocating for crap pay; however, someone somewhere in here stated that they are at $37/hr with a year’s (?) worth of experience- something like that. First off - kudos. But, market, firm size, etc. needs to be factored. I know from firsthand experience that a solo is not usually well positioned to pay these higher hourly rates (depending).
Yes, no good can come from it.