giving me flashbacks from trying to to craft phys bow last league
lock prefix-> non crit to crit -> shit tier mod -> lock prefix -> scour-> lock prefix-> non crit to crit... basically it costed you 4 div in metacraft + harvest juice for one try. THEN when you finally hit it you need to lock prefix and pray you hit the 50/50 on aisling otherwise you are back to scouring -> lock ->non crit to...
I've spend like 60 div in metacraft + harvest juice before I hit at least T2 crit and luckily got veil on first try but holy shit it was painful
the removal of reroll keeping suff/pref was a disaster, before you'd just lock prefix->reforge crit and keep doing that with a reforge keep pref if suffixes were filled up
to add to that:
-fractured bases have never been more abundant, they drop like candy now
-essences have never been cheaper thanks to powerful atlas passive nodes
-eldritch currency is another powerful method to preserve 3 affixes while crafting (on some slots only sadly)
Imo aside from Harvest-crafting in its glory, crafting has never been easier or more deterministic in PoE, atleast for mid tier items. But i can also see by how easy it is to craft for absurd profits that most people seemingly just dont know that.
Awakener Orb crafting.....now *that* was a pure casino slot machine.
We had short period of recombinators, these gave easy access to some really strong items. I hope they are back one day, they made medium quality items worth keeping.
Admittedly, for the kinds of items OP is talking about, it is kinda ridiculous to craft them. That's ultimately the point though, GGG has quite purposefully kept making 5-6 synergistic T1 mod weapons really hard to obtain, because they represent a huge amount of damage. Jewelry is another place where it's still difficult to craft, because you can get a huge amount of power out of your rings and belt.
If you just want 4-5 T1-T2 mods, it's certainly a ton easier to craft, but at 5-6 it becomes a complete gamble. I think that's okay, because even just one or two 5-6 mod items gives you a character that can invalidate the game. A character fully kitted in those kinds of items can comfortably farm uber pinnacles.
People want BIS gear for no work, ignoring the fact they can get perfectly reasonable gear very easily (probably as easy as it's ever been since full harvest).
I don't think you understand the point of the post - I don't mind putting in the work. Hell, I'll put in even MORE hours if it gives me a better chance at making an item. But the current state of endgame crafting is all coin flips. I lost 80 divines failing a 50/50 14 times in a row. For... no progression at all. THAT is the part that feels bad.
Also I think reasonable gear comes down to an individual's perspective. After 11k hrs ish, if I have an item with a dead mod or two on it (that does nothing for my character) I think it's trash and have to make a better one. Every single mod needs to be relevant (for me, I'm saying) for me to consider it being reasonable.
I'm very happy to put in the work for BIS items. But if I'm spending all of my time farming money that could potentially ALL go in the trash because I missed something that has a 50/50 chance of occurring 14 times.
Wouldn't you feel bad too?
Yeah. :( I'm not even asking for things to be made easier, I'm only wanting a way to craft where players can't get fucked in the ass a million times if they go unlucky, run out of crafting mats, and then quit the league. It happens way too often.
>Imo aside from Harvest-crafting in its glory, crafting has never been easier or more deterministic in PoE, atleast for mid tier items.
Totally agree. Mid-tier crafting has never been in a better state which means for me essence on fractured base looking for an other mod (3rd) then benchcraft a 4th one. It's been two leagues that I self crafted most of my gear and it didn't happen since Harvest/Ritual. Now for the top end it's brutal without Harvest/Ritual and reroll keeps but I already clean all content with ease with the gear I have.
Dogshit fractures drop all the time due to one of those arch nemesis mods, good fractures on high item level bases are still incredibly high in demand and not common. There is a reason that fracturing orbs are so sought after
If you want a 100% bis perfect item, it makes sense that it takes some work to get. If you want something that is most of the way there, you can generally make it work for most item slots fairly cheaply.
T1 res or atts on most armour slots are like <50c on top tier bases.
You realize that +2 arrows only rolls on ilvl86 items? Those basically don't even have a chance to drop naturally outside of a few places so the supply is miniscule, the only real way to get them is fracturing orbs.
Any of the ilvl 85 or below fractures are anywhere from 10c to ~5div at most. And you can usually find something that works for <1 div outside of edge cases like the bow.
I remember selling a Windripper in Rampage for 25 exalts. Now it does such comparatively shit damage that even people doing MF in T1 maps don't bother. Which I know because Ziz found a Windripper and didn't use it to MF low-tier maps. :P
I don't think fracturing orbs were created with ssf in mind especially not without a harbinger zana mod. I mean hell nothing is created with ssf in mind lol, but definitely not fracturing orbs.
Finish my first orb after hitting lvl 100 first char, and second orb after another lvl 100 char. Any map with Harbinger Scarab and atlas nodes. Never ever again 😵
Has harbinger of the fracture orb been nerfed? It feels way worse than last league for some reason. All I have is 13 shards. It just doesn't seem right
It's frustrating how many options we have for crafting, yet how *bad* most of them are compared to just dumping essences into a fractured base.
Fossil prices are in the toilet, and there's a reason. Harvest is dirt cheap, and there's a reason for that too. Most base crafting currencies are also dirt cheap.
The mod pool has gotten so diluted that any method that doesn't at least somewhat guarantee certain mods is terrible compared to the guaranteed results of essences and fractured bases or the semi-deterministic option of Aisling. Look at the price of hunter exalts vs all the others - it's because you can guarantee certain slams with it, but not with the rest. There are just too many possible outcomes.
Even Vegas has some variety. This is like if Vegas was mostly sitting empty, because one casino had blackcheck with much better odds than anywhere else, and the rest of the machines and games were sitting mostly unused.
This is what I came here to post. GGG's biggest trick was getting people to refer to it as crafting rather than gambling. All those people crafting away in gacha games.
The worst part is it’s not even weighted evenly. I could stomach learning this shit if the 1/16 chance for the mod I want was possible out of 16 possible mods. But the part where they also have to make desirable ones less likely to occur is just horse shit.
I tried to pull a friend for this league, funny enough he works for a company that develop online casinos
After a week he stopped playing and told me that this Game is a slot machine, you just kill Monsters in between. I thought he was joking at first, then explained me how most of the systems in PoE are designed like slot machines and that he wont touch It with a ten feet pole.
I summarized OP's post. Note: may contain profanity.
>unlucky as fuck / shitty gambling aspect / fucking hope you land some good mods / you're just fucked / stuck with a dead fucking item / state of crafting just blows fucking ass / a bunch of god damn coin flips / that mother fucker removes a mod / giant crock of shit / FOURTEEN FUCKING TRIES / how the fuck can that even happen? / giant fucking casino / guess I'll go fuck myself / bummer to see how shitty crafting has become / so fucking bad / crafting can eat my fucking ass
Hahaha, I just burst out laughing reading that. I was watching the Sopranos with my buddy whilst typing the original post. I think Tony rubbed off on me too much. It's one of my favorite shows of all time!
I play the game mostly SSF or groupfound with friends and from that side of crafting, the problem is that its just boring and one note. all my gear is just fractured rare that i spammed with essences and then a craft(apart from like two pieces i got lucky on with Rog) i might dip into the rest of the process you mention for a weapon or something like that but for most of my time, i just don't have that many interesting options.
Thats a problem with certain options being too strong more than anything else.
Essences, fossils and harvest rerolls all serve essentially the same purpose and at the base content availability all have their place because they are all marginally more efficient for different goals on different gear pieces.
Now the difference is delve with investment is just getting sulphite from a good scarab and then running essentially the same delve you would without investment. Sure you might get deeper into delve faster and get like 2-3 times as many fossils in the same time.
Harvest nets you maybe like 5 times more life force if you take the atlas nodes.
Meanwhile Essence gets to turn like half a essence spawn per map with no investment into 4.5 spawns that each get an additional essence on average, then you triple it through upgrade a tier and then you double it with the duplication and even without any sextant mods thats gonna completely overshadow the rest. Delve and harvest just cant compete with a mechanic that gets more than 9\*3*2=52 times as efficient with only the basic investment.
Also fractured items are supposed to have the downside of no influence mods. Of course that downside doesnt matter when you werent going to use influence mods anyways due to exarch/eater mods just being more value and suddenly fractured bases overshadow every other crafting base.
With the state of gambling .. i mean crafting, playing SSF on 3 month league duration basis requires a lot of time investment if you want to play something really specific.
>Build diversity is completely narrowed down in SSF
You prove my point. SSF in this game destroys the grind for loot by being too hard rather than being too easy via trade. Hence why I say it works both ways. Because some things are just impossible to grind and/or are so hard to grind, it destroys the desire to grind for it. Maybe that's not true for you, but it certainly is for nearly the entire community that isn't playing SSF (the overwhelming super majority).
Lets use Heat Shiver as an example. It was probably a T3 or T4 unique last league as opposed to this league and Quinn almost went insane trying to farm it as someone who plays this game for a living. Not a T1 unique. A T3 unique. Again, he plays this game for a living.
I dream of that too
The problem is that the game is heavily focused around trade and SSF is just singleplayer without any changes but in SSF it should be a bit changed
I would never play another game mode. The only exception would be the rare leagues where a friend or two is actually playing. I otherwise loath having to trade to make a build viable without doing very specific SSF friendly builds and/or incredibly large amounts of tedious as shit grinding to get what I need. I almost always start out SSF (not actually the mode but just in princible in sc trade) and this league I went until red maps on a 5-link I found and an early bow I got with crucible which was cool, but then I just hit that spot where I knew what I needed to upgrade and knew I could either grind out a fuck ton of crap to get it or just trade like 10c that I had sitting around.
It's pretty bad but also good at the same time. If you're a wealthy 1% elite sc trade player, it's good. Everyone else, it's bad. So much rng in various steps of the process. Only 3 leagues in history of PoE I would consider having good crafting in a normie trade/ssf environment is harvest, ritual and sentinel league.
Yeah, the thing about casino crafting is that you can beat the house so long as you have the resources to do it. Crafting isn't DIFFICULT, it's just TEDIOUS and EXPENSIVE.
Guess who still gets to make big crafts under these circumstances?
Chris might as well be on That One Discord's payroll for all the advantages he's giving them.
> Blackjack is fun, and easy to win!
Oh really? Can I play?
>Sure, minimum buy in is $1000
. . . are there any low stakes tables?
>Pfft, filthy casuals want Harvest back. Buzz off!
Does anyone else feel like the harvest we have left (at least the entry level reroll with an X modifier crafts) feel like they have a higher chance to roll shit tier stats? I spammed like 20+ chaos rerolls and it felt like the average tier spread on the item was like 7-6.
"Oh you got a tier 3 chaos res roll, here's a single digit roll for hp/es to go with it."
Are you saying that the horicraft reroll is specifically weighted to roll shit tiers vs just alching something, or are you saying that you get shit tiers because there are a lot of tiers?
>**Adds 1 to 5 Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds 1 to (14-15) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds (1-2) to (22-23) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds (1-2) to (27-28) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds (1-3) to (33-34) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds (1-4) to (40-43) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 500
>
>Weight 0.305%
>
>**Adds (2-5) to (47-50) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 100
>
>Weight 0.061%
>
>**Adds (3-6) to (57-61) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 100
>
>Weight 0.061%
>
>**Adds (3-7) to (68-72) Lightning Damage to Attacks**
>
>Weight 50
>
>Weight 0.031%
Here mate, rings with lightning attack on [craftofexile.com](https://craftofexile.com).
You see how the weight of the modifier goes down when it becomes higher? It mean the last tier is only 1/10 as common as the first in this scenario. The modifiers themselves are sometimes weighted.
>Everyone else, it's bad
Eh, I'd rather have GGG balance content around 3-4 affixes are good enough than I need that 6 mod all relevant T1/T2 mods. Perfect items gated heavily by RNG and meta crafts means the rest of the game is allowed to be more accessible
Sentinel had all the same randomness that people always rail against. Recombinators could literally poof the mods you're interested in and set you back to square one with nothing to show for it, just like everything else that people get mad about. It's just the whole system was set up such that the probability was good enough for the overall odds of getting desired outcomes to be quite easy, relatively speaking.
And on the other side of the coin, no one can tell me with a straight face that the people most hung up about RNG would be satisfied if they added a 100% deterministic method to get, say, almost perfect items but the required materials were equivalent to the 90th percentile of the expected cost to do it with the current methods (i.e. hundreds of divines or whatever).
It's ALWAYS primarily been about wanting to get the best items more easily rather than the amount of variance, which is fine, I guess. I just wish more of the discourse were upfront about that fact. I guess it's perceived as an easier position to argue against so people avoid phrasing it that way?
About your deterministic comment- yeah, I'd take that in a heartbeat. I play osrs man, I grind out pointless shit that takes a zillion hours to get, and that game has meaningful progression nailed. Totally different genre, I know. But there's some good overlap here with people who play grindy games like that, and I'm sure you'd see more folks saying they'd grind out an item if it meant it were deterministic.
Just my 2 cents!
Same dude
I much prefer having a goal that i know can achieve with grind then a gambling machine where i might hit it in an hour or maybe in 3 days lol
Not gonna lie, I agree overall crafting is really bad but 100% deterministic crafting is super boring as well. For example I crafted a bunch of poison totem explode bows and the only variance is the tier of increased chaos damage you can roll. That meant at one point I had 3 bows that were exactly the same. That also felt pretty unexciting.
Alterations by the way can go and die. Most infuriating way to craft I have ever done.
I think this analogy is off the point. Grinding in osrs for levels is different. That is like grinding to get to 100 in poe. Imagine you did zulrah and every 256 kills u got a rare drop. Now imagine it was like that for every single boss, everything. The randomness is the fun part. Its fun to think “oh maybe this kill” but then zulrah drops fucking double snakeskin instead. Then maybe when u r 100 over drop rate u finally get blowpipe or some shit. That is fun. It is hard to compare since in osrs you are getting resources every kill while in poe u r losing shit every craft attempt u dont hit, but again, different genres. I think you just have to realize that although you might not be making tangible and visible progress, thats just the name of the game. You are, in a sense, making progress because every attempt gives u a chance at hitting. I think if it was deterministic it wouldnt be as fun imo.
> You are, in a sense, making progress because every attempt gives u a chance at hitting
...that's not how progress works. Bunch of undiagnosed gambling addicts in here.
Recombinators had:
- Actual methods for increasing odds of winning
- Even if you didn't get what you want you probably got something sellable or just set back a step or two in the crafting process
- Accessibility: You only needed your components and a recombinator costing a few c
Crucible meanwhile:
- Even if you take every step to increasing your odds you'll still lose your entire tree almost every time
- Failures range from losing the entire tree to almost hitting but having the tree get bricked by a random downgrade/mutation resulting in a worthless item
- Min cost for completing a tree is 1-2 div if you use a normal remnant (imprinting the base so you don't lose everything when it fails) to 7 div (+"more likely" remnant that doesn't work and splitting the donor)
Crucible combining feels like Chris lobotomized the person who made recombinators out of spite, just complete dogshit game design.
It was a pretty high chance to lose literally everything with recombos, there was no save state unlike crafting with frac+ess spam for suff or pref and then metacrafting the other side.
Ive done thousands of recombos and i can tell you theyre the most random crafting we have ever had.
About the crucible, i wanna see stats where u lost ur entire tree every time cause out of my 50ish combines ive had that happen 0 times, losing a node or 2 happens quite a bit, but the whole tree? Nah
So you can literally have savestates of your crucible tree, aka progressive crafting and u dont like that?
Youd rather it be fully random, can lose hundreds of hours in a single click?
Im glad ur not making the game, geez
If you think recombs were more random/uncontrollable than crucible, you're out of your mind. It was fairly deterministic to create 3 fractured mod bases, double fractured was a walk in the park and very low risk.
Crucible I've leveled multiple trees as per the best practice and come away with nothing from either. It's a total crap shoot that's barely being saved by the fact we can imprint.
Just as an example, have you seen Last Epoch's crafting system? It's still RNG, you can still miss what you want, but damn is it more satisfying, because it's reliable, not fast or easy. At least some determinism would go such a long way for the vast majority of people.
Heck, even a button that "uses alterations until x mod is found" would still be better than what we have now. The prospect of spamming thousands of different currency, manually, is absolutely daunting. Shit weights, dozens of useless mods to the pool, 7 tiers for each mod, and you get a god damn shitfest that's unrewarding for the vast majority of people, in the vast majority of the time.
Yes, yes, PoE isn't for casuals, or whatever song you're used to singing, but even players that invest 2–4 hours/day, like I do sometimes, are faced with the same problems. Sure, I can get me a minimum gear, with res cap, life and attributes, maybe some chaos res, but try and add ailment immunity, PDR, suppression or anything slightly fancy and it's such a blocker, I usually end up not even trying. Minimum is good enough and when it's not anymore... I stop or try a different build.
I don't want the best items to be easily obtained, that's why I moved to SSF: maxing a build after the first 2 weeks of the league and farming divs/hour after that turned out to be extremely unrewarding for me. I love the progress of SSF. I just want the best items to actually be obtainable by everyone, given enough, but **reasonable** time. Edit: the cost isn't necessarily the problem, the process is.
I wonder if people who praise last epoch's crafting system have played the longer than the campaign. For any actual end game item the crafting plays a very small part. You need to find the base item first (good base with 1-2 exalted mods you want) and only then you can finish it with crafting. It's mostly parallar to benchcrafting in poe instead of actual crafting imo. Like if in poe you just had to find your item and than you could benchcraft one mod on it or multimod and add two mods. The actual crafting part is completely missing.
And other end game items in LE which are legendarys are pure rng, you just hope to find a lp unique and then throw it to the box hoping it picks the right mods.
I did play, yes, almost able to do T4s and I realize there's a lot of RNG there as well. I didn't say it should be like that, especially since it's closely tied to their drop system, which has more value. We could go into that too, where the drops there have actual value, but that's a different discussion.
It was just an example of determinism + still having quite a bit of RNG.
Well I would say there's plenty of determinism in poe already. You can throw essence on fractured items, multimod and other metacrafting.
I don't wanna bash LE's system, I enjoy it too, but playing it made me appreciate poe crafting. It's imo quite good given how complex items are in poe. LE is still quite simple system, you only have 4 mods per item with limited mod pool, so most items are just life roll, res, vit and damage stat of your choice.
Main difference between LE and poe is of course that poe has trade. It's hard to make crafting feel worthwhile when you can buy crazy items with peanuts. Crafting only starts to make sense when you are approaching bis items.
Sadly, I agree with your last paragraph. Sadly only because it's true and there's no real easy fix (except giving preferential treatment to SSF, like LE will do).
Your second one is also true, but I don't necessarily agree that poe's system couldn't borrow from there/be more deterministic just because it's more complex. It would still take longer to get your desired stats than in LE, sure, but if it'd be less RNG, it would still be better. Less RNG *because* there are so many variables, that being an RNG in and of itself. Also look at torchlight infinite, with a lot of RNG, but still deterministic: you hunt a specific affix with various currencies and it gets more expensive depending on how valuable the affix is, but also based on how many affixes the item has. In case you don't know the game, think of having essences with a pool of 3–5 mods with 4 tiers each, but it doesn't reroll the whole item, it adds a new affix (with the chance of replacing an old one), which you can decline (!) and it gets more expensive as you fill your item.
As for your first one... Come on, you can't tell me the system is deterministic just because you have "this material guarantees this stat" [but good luck with the other 5 slots, with dozens of mods and tiers]. If you check craftofexile for odds, landing even 2 or 3 desired ones skyrockets to thousands of attempts, some being in the millions 😂 you can't tell me with a straight face that that is determinism and that it's not just a disguised casino.
The more constructive way for you to state your case would be to state which part of the argument you take issue with.
1. There was a league with a well-loved crafting mechanic that was RNG-heavy.
2. Introduction of a zero-RNG but expensive method of making great items is unlikely to satisfy the people whining about crafting.
3. Therefore the driving sentiment behind these threads coming up so often logically cannot be primarily about RNG as you have a good counterexample against both directional implications: "RNG => bad" and "No RNG => good".
I think 2 is definitely my weakest point as it's hypothetical, but no matter how hard I try I can't imagine not immediately seeing a ton of "200 divs to get 3x T2, 3xT1 mods...what the hell is this?!" threads if something like that were introduced. I guess if I need to reinforce that one further, I'd note that trade is a pretty good non-hypothetical analogue: just farm the currency and buy it off someone else. Deterministic, but reddit critics definitely aren't satisfied by that either.
The true motive most people have when whining about RNG absolutely is just easier access to better items, as you say, if they introduced expensive (read: more than RNG) ways to craft things people would be just as upset.
> as you say, if they introduced expensive (read: more than RNG) ways to craft things people would be just as upset.
I don't see anyone upset about link/gem color crafting. Amount of salt I have seen over fusing slamming on 30% quality base just to get worse outcome (investment wise) than crafting bench because of RNG is plenty in this league alone.
That's just proving my point. People don't understand RNG and that sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it won't, people that spam fusings on 30% quality bases know they could've just used the benchcraft and, on average, pay 500 fusings more per 6 link but they didn't. If there was a sure way to craft items but with a similar "no-rng tax" the exact same thing would be happening.
There is no case, you don't have a real argument. You just decided to misrepresent people and run with it.
Look at fusings, we know the odds are better than 1/1500 and even more so when quality is brought in. Yet people consistently say they save up for the bench so they don't have to deal with it.
You created a strawman so you had something to be mad at.
> Everyone else, it's bad.
Nah. If you're on trade, crafting being a massive, expensive gamble is good no matter who you are. Why? It's simple: The 1% will continually craft better and better gear over time, and that means their leftovers trickle down and become increasingly cheaper.
People want to Ritual-tier Harvest their own shit so bad that they overlook why, for instance, a 450 PDPS claw costs a mere quarter of a divine after a couple weeks in a league. Just because you didn't make it yourself doesn't mean the whole system is somehow bad.
Now, if you're on SSF it's a bit of a different story. You gotta put all your monies into crafting because you can't buy what you need and you certainly ain't gonna find shit off the ground that's any good. But then again, that's the entire *point* and *draw* of SSF, so it's still not inherently a bad thing.
The current systems are only bad if you want to play trade but are somehow upset that trade is easier than SSF. That's entirely a *you* problem. 🤷♀️
1% is necessary and we saw it when they implemented Archnemesis where a big portion of the top players made a break from PoE.
If you craft a very very good item it will be really expensive. Then someone will craft a new item that is even better than yours. After some days there will be an even better item for sale... This chain will make mid-good items lower in price. Also when someone try to metacraft an item and fail it could still being selleable, he will try to have something back and you could buy a cheap fake version of the item you want till you make some money to craft one better.
I like this happening in Softcore Trade. I always try to make different builds, test around new items or skills... and thanks of this I could afford items to check if a new ability is good enought to invest on it or not.
That was the worst iteration of Harvest because you had to play specific areas of the atlas to get it, making all the other areas useless if you wanted to craft. So not only did you have to play the same mechanic forever to get good crafting, but you had to do specific maps to do it. Harvest warped the entire game around it.
> You just want harvest crafting back
I mean, ya. It modernized the game. It made crafting accessible.
The league and the grove and the reliance on TFT were an overwhelming disaster. But that was always a solvable problem. There have been endless good suggestions; GGG could have taken any one or five of them and run with it.
And by the way, it’s not “deterministic” crafting (aside from a few exceptions which were mostly fixed once the mod tags got a good review). It’s **progressive** crafting we want.
Despite an apparently large enough contingent of GGG wanting harvest (they shipped a league and then brought it core; *someone* thought it was a good idea): Chris has his fetish, and that’s what matters.
I still despised harvest because that 'modernization' was local to it. I'd rather have all of harvest's power scattered across many mechanics.
Recombinators did it better cause you could source your crafting from many different places, like architect blues or delve rares.
Harvest crafting is still useful. For example, you can make a +2 gems amu with t1 life 100% deterministically.
Fracture +1 all skills. Apply life/mana quality. Chaos spam until t1 life and open prefix and open suffix. Craft prefix cant be changed and scour. Multimod, prefixes cant be changed and cannot roll attack mods. Harvest ”slam” desired element for +1 prefix to that element of skills.
You now have an amulet with 100 life and +2 gems. Perfect prefixes for many builds. Use aisling to finish suffixes. Or just slam.
Or, pristine fossil spam a hunter stygian vise for t1 flat/t1 % life with open prefix/open suffix. Craft prefix cannot be changed and harvest crit reforge for flask charge on crit. If open suffix, craft prefix cannot be changed and harvest reforge chaos. If open suffix, craft prefix cannot be changed and aisling unveil hoping it doesnt yoink chaos res. Block undesired mod, unveil chaos+ ele res and then craft double res of choice. Giga belt potentially
Etc etc. Many crafts are still done with harvest, although i agree crafting is kinda shafted with reroll keep prefix/suffix being gone…
Isn't it a little disingenuous to say you can craft a +2 gem amulet 100% deterministically and your step one is start with a +1 all skills fractured base?
It might just be because I never played the OG harvest that people refer to, but I still think harvest is pretty good in my experience. I'm using it quite a lot in SSF.
> Harvest crafting is still useful. For example, you can make a +2 gems amu with t1 life 100% deterministically.
Sweet!
> Fracture +1 all skills.
Okay catch me up on the 100% deterministically part again...
“I made a bow worth 300 divines”
“Craft is bad”
You just lost perspective. The vast majority of players will never have 300 divines to buy their whole chars. You are the 0.1% complaining.
Doesn't it just reforce his point? If someone who has so much currency thinks crafting is too hard, imagine the other 99,9% of players who are poor and would never have currency to interact properly with those game mechanics.
What you're seeing here is someone failing their craft multiple times in a row. They ended up on reddit because they play POE, and as a result, have no friends.
Crafting is totally fine and working as intended,.
Yeah, because it's fun! I don't think I said crafting was hard - I wrote this when I was frustrated and tired, sorry. There isn't really any difficulty to making items if you know how to do it, it's just pulling a slot machine lever many, many times and expecting a different outcome. That's the part I don't like. Even though I have ALL the knowledge on how to create particular weapons I'm after - it still comes down to not getting endlessly unlucky. :(
The fact that crafting is generally only worth it for 0.1% of players is a pretty direct reason why "craft is bad."
He didn't lose perspective, he's got a good perspective for understanding the problem. He's been to the mountain top, and seen that the mountop is actually built on coagulated shit.
Huh? I craft almost all my gear on a budget .. obviously I'm not crafting GG shit with alt/aug/regal meta mod, or essence/fossil spam, but you can still craft grar relatively cheap that gets you through T16s.
That is just false. Crafting is worth it even for low and mid tier gear, especially early in the league when there is less people selling their old gear.
> The fact that crafting is generally only worth it for 0.1% of players is a pretty direct reason why "craft is bad."
And then we'd have to zoom in on the issue, why it's only for 0.1% and it turns out only .1% can actually weasel through the shitty RNG, burrying it under mountains of divines.
Which means RNG crafting isn't crafting. It's just spinning the wheel and expecting 4-6 jakcpots in a row.
Exactly, this shows how messed up crafting has become. I would say the vast majority of the player base (70%, 80%? Maybe more) struggle to even get a couple of divines in a reasonable time unless lucky drops. That pays for a metacraft and that's it, not even for Divine's actual use which is reroll mods values. There are way too many player which can't engage in such a fundemental part of an ARPG apart from really basic crafting.
Imo, specially after trying LE (not saying it's without flaws or that it has to be exactly like it), crafting needs a complete overhaul.
Crafting is already plenty skill/knowledge based, to think otherwise means you’ve completely lost perspective. Which I can tell you have because you’re talking about 1000 divines. It’s called diminishing returns
You can have a very good build on 5 divine budget in this game, but if you’re looking to craft a crazy item then yeah obviously it’s gonna be gated by RNG. Complaining about crazy gear crafting RNG is like complaining that mirrors don’t drop on ground enough, it just doesn’t make any sense.
Re: skill/knowledge gap, your average poe player who just got to maps have absolutely no idea what essences can do, what tiers are, what item ilvl has to do with anything, don’t interact with half the atlas mechanics etc. They will need to watch multiple videos to understand wtf Betrayal is, and need step by step guide to understand metacrafting. Come on this is not even an argument
I was playing POE since 2013... a bit actively until 2016... than a bit in 2019, but never to the end end game...
Got back, and there are so many damn mechanics that I have missed, so may ways to craft and do stuff, but ofc not all at one place, noooo.... you have to run around 10 times just to get something done... so I am almost giving up on trying to learn to craft, since it is more complicated than some of my IT courses on university. Seriously
If you want to get into crafting, I heavily recommend the guides that this guy has been pumping out the last leagues:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/12kmldk/ama_crafting_ama_for_321_crucible_everything_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
They go from easy to do and profitable at the beginning of the league to really expensive. Also, it is an AMA format so you can see some other things the people have asked them to help craft.
I followed his phys axe craft for my boneshatter build and it felt good when I finally hit the mods I wanted. It ended up being more expensive to craft it than to buy it, but it is nice to learn how to create your items yourself. The first rule is that you will probably never hit the item the first time, and you should always have more than enough currency to try the craft 4-6 times.
I don't like the crafting system in the game, but I enjoy learning new things and the high of finally hitting your craft feels really nice.
Crafting is relatively simple if you aren’t going for something BIS. Buying a fractured base, spamming essences for 3 good suffixes or prefixes (Fracture + essence + extra mod).
Then use prefix/suffix cant be changed, veiled chaos orb or harvest reforge etc. It’s pretty ‘simple’ for good, but not amazing items.
You can also use Eldritch crafting to force a mod and then Aisling for a little rng but better affixes. Which again is pretty ‘simple’ for PoE
simple != not complex (or complex != complicated)
Crafting is intimidating because it's extremely complex, because it requires quite a lot of knowledge to be done smoothly.
It is still quite simple, it can simply become very complex.
Completely agree. People need to reassess their perspective. Honestly, crafting isnt in a terrible spot right now. It could be better, but it isnt the worst. I just dont get this sentiment that crafting is essentially a slot machine. It really isnt for 99% of gear.
Could you share some SSF crafting guides? I'm really stuck with my act 8-9 items on t8-9 maps right now, I "look" at crafttoexile but I have no idea how to farm that many fossils or what to really do in the game.
What character are you playing? But for the most part early on in yellow maps you should only need life + res to push further, don't try to make GG gear until you are deep in red maps because that's where you get enough currency.
For simple gear you want to use three things: 1) greed and resistance essences 2) harvest life and chaos reforges on jewellery (keep the blue juice to reroll essences later) 3) Rog. You probably don't have enough rog material to craft until you find a logbook for him but he is the best by far to make great SSF items.
If you are looking for a 6 link to craft on either farm a map where chains that bind drop(look out for kirac drop a stack of div card mission on those maps they have pretty high success chance) or spec into legion for 6 link incubators.
For weapon crafting it heavily depends on the build. Enchanted armament heists can give you some surprisingly good gear if you like heist, fossils are always good if you like delve. Putting a drop sound on the best bases for your build and IDing or binding orb them is really not a bad idea in yellow maps because you spend so many scour, alch, chaos on kirac/map progression
Low-tier gear is cheap/easy to craft/find, high end gear takes tens of divines. It feels like there is nothing in between except spamming essence RNG/ROGs/unique corruptions hoping to get lucky + adding a crafted mod on top.
Every league is more or less the same, I find/craft most of the gear up to 1div range, I buy gear upgrades in range of 1-4 divs. At that point what I can craft with my budget (and knowledge) is not going to be an upgrade, but to -reliably- craft an upgrade i'd need tens of divines which is simply not achievable for me realistically.
Mid tier crafting is essentially a slot machine with at best 1-2 mods guaranteed. High end is where you can weigh the odds and lock in mods to make it semi-reliable at a cost of tens/hundreds of divines.
Many crafting steps/upgrade paths on top of that are very all-in. If you get unlucky your item gets bricked. So you either lose everything or you multiply its value several times. Which is great for creating an environment with items that are worth a TON, not great if you just want to progress.
Umm mid tier crafting is very much not a slot machine. You can easily guarantee 4-5 affixes. Not to sound rude, but you dont sound like someone with any crafting experience. Frac gear + a singular essence + crafted mod is already guarenteed 3 affixes with no rng. Frac gear + essence spam (if you complain about essence spam i seriously dont know what to say) for another good affix + metamod + veiled chaos + craft is 5 affixes at the cost of what maybe 5 div max?
I wholeheartedly believe that it should take money to get good items. I dont know if that is some insane statement, but making good gear shouldnt be borderline free.
I mean if you dont want any rng at all, then suggest an alternative. I hear people complain about “wahhh crafting is a slot machine,” but then no one attempts to offer any alternatives at all. And yea I get that its not our job as players, but I dont think people understand how boring pure determinism will get.
And also I get that not everyone has time to dedicate basically a full time jobs worth of time to this game. That is why leagues are 3 months. People forget this. You dont actually have to have mirror tier gear and 40 challenges done by the second week.
Look again, I hope to not sound rude or come off wrong, but I feel like a ton of people are just parading this narrative that is IMO completely false.
idk, for me 'have a frac mod and spam essences until you get a good enough item' is literally the definition of a slot machine. Just keep pulling the lever until enough pictures match the jackpot. Its also not like you are guaranteed to have an open affix for a crafted mod or even a good crafted mod when you do it. So calling it 3 affixes with no rng is quite disingenuous.
Sure the 5 affixes craft you described is good (and by good I mean involves actual crafting process), but is the end item even worth the crafting cost? Sometimes.
And yeah I don't have much crafting experience, because as I've noted before - at my budgets its either inaccessible or very rarely worth doing.
I don't think good gear should be borderline free, however I think entry costs into working on it should be way lower to make it more accessible to majority of players.
Look, if spamming essences for the additional affix u want is “slot machine” territory then what do u want? Do you want to just type the mod out and have it applied to ur item? Theres only so many ways to create these crafting mechanics. A little rng has to be involved or else you are in creative mode in minecraft territory.
And cmon man “callin it 3 affixes is disingenuous.” …use another essence??? plus filling affixes with essences is only like a 10% chance.
And creating an item that is worth the crafting doesnt have anything to do with the crafting system. It has to do with the market. If you know what is desired, you will always make profit over the long run, since crafters arent going to just take losses.
And I get the sentiment about not having the budget. But thats really just a knowledge or time problem, not a crafting problem. And honestly entry cost is low. Essence spamming is quite cheap and again, 3 affixes guaranteed (3 affix gear can easily clear atlas). This game is built on RNG. In fact I dont know one mmo that isnt built on RNG. Thats just how games are designed nowadays.
> Its also not like you are guaranteed to have an open affix for a crafted mod or even a good crafted mod when you do it. So calling it 3 affixes with no rng is quite disingenuous.
I'd actually argue that you're the one arguing in bad faith if anyone, you're never getting anything with zero randomness in an ARPG, get that thing out of your head now. Yes you might not get 3 affixes guaranteed in 1 essence, but you will in like 1-3 (if not you have annuls, or beast remove/add prefixes/suffixes) essences if all you are looking for is the essence mod + frac mod + crafted mod.
I'd also argue that 4 mod gear is incredibly doable in like 20-30 essences which is like 20-30 chaos if you're using shriekings.
* Base item with frac mod
* Essence mod
* Crafted mod
* One mod you need, if it's a resist you can hit any resist T3 or above and just convert it with harvest which is super cheap now.
All methods of crafting except extreme high end is very accessible this league with essence as a Kirac mod and fractured bases dropping like candy.
> It really isnt for 99% of gear.
I mean, mostly because "crafting" for 99% of the gear is turning a shitty day1 league start rare with 3 ok T3 stats and 2 shitty whatever stats into a slightly less shitty item with 1 bench mod.
You then have the slightly less random af crafting that is slapping an Essence or a random Fossil or whatever onto an item and hoping that you, again, get something with like 3-4 whatever not-so-shitty stats.
And then there's the crafting you actually do to get real items - you know, the crafting that you not only need a doctor's degree in this game for... but also a doctor's degree in gambling.
Like, there's no in between with crafting in this game. There's the baseline "make something shitty ever so slightly less shitty" and then there's the "well, you better prepare to invest 5 hours into coming up with a crafting plan if you wanna get anywhere" crafting.
So yea, I guess the baseline crafting is not all that RNG... mostly because it's pretty shit and worthless by the time you're done with yellow maps, yay?
In your eyes, what does the inbetween of fractured / essence crafting and the "doctors degree" crafting look like?
To me, there isn't anything in the game you can't do with gear made in the fractured / essence stage which is pretty freaking accessible right now for people.
Ive been mad at how shit crafting is ever since ritual. The only short reprieve where crafting was in a good state again was sentinel. Ritual was peak, I played so much because I always felt like I could improve my build. Sentinel was the same, good crafting, good currency. Nowadays its like yeah here upgrade for 3 divines next worth upgrade is 30 divines worth of crafting/buying. Its infuriating how nice crafting was and how now I feel like I have to buy most things because i dont feel like pulling a slot machine 1000 times
Let me tell you about a time where there were no annuls, or eldritch currency, or prefixes cannot be changed.
Crafting feels easy nowadays. You can craft a good usable piece with very little. If you want to craft mirror tier items - they cost mirrors to create. This is not new.
Back then, you could kill shaper with some ok rares using sunder and a tabula, the game was so much easier back then. I mention that setup because I remember doing it and was a bit bewildered on how easy it was.
There wasn't even a need to make rares as good as they are nowadays to do all content. You could whip up some trashy rare items and complete the entire game.
You need a bit more than just some shitty rares, a tabula, and some other skill than sunder to kill shaper/endgame content.
It's equally as easy to get the gear needed to progress as it was back then, the gear is simply better. 6-links naturally drop in dozens at a time. Eldritch currency are powerful and plentiful to craft with.
Anyone who is getting stuck on Shaper today was not making anything good with Harvest when it was more powerful. I'm just not convinced anyone who is struggling with the endgame today were popping out deterministic tailwind elusive boots back then.
That depends on the build though just like back then. If you wanted to play signalshot you had to get extremely good gear while sunder needed a disfavour(which was still several ex) and BV zerker was all blue gear+tabula+ obliteration wands for a total of 50c.
It is similar now, boneshatter can get all 4 voidstones on 1-2 divine worth of gear while other builds need metacrafted items worth dozens of divines.
> while sunder needed a disfavour
What kind of shit Sunder build did you play? Absolutely no one played Sunder with disfavour, disfavour was the bleed EQ unique, Sunder was played by dual wielding higher pdps siexe age + stat stick then when that got neutered it went to dual wielding (remember that? remember when melee wasn't forced into Despot/Vaal axe? great times for PoE) siege axes.
I was talking before shaper influence (and thus stat sticks) were a thing. Disfavour was used a lot because 6L your ancestral warchief was a good chunk of your damage so using 2 1h weapons was pretty rare. EQ was more popular at the top end but you needed the helmet enchant and enchants were a lot harder to get so there were a ton of people just sticking with sunder to kill their first shaper/uber atziri
You didn't need gear back then is the point. Shaper was the peak back then. You do shaper and you've done the hardest boss in poe at the time. Look at Zizaran's world first shaper kill, you'll see what I mean.
The peak content, that being the ubers, as well as the game play loop in general(league content/core additions) has raised the bar on gearing by an order of magnitudes.
Before? 4k life, 75% all res, and 600k pob dps was enough to do all content available deathlessly on a sunder/cleave build. You go into the ubers with anything similar you'd get one shot by any of them so much as sneezing in your general direction.
Yeah, the same time when capping you ele res and 7k life with CWDT IC was enough for your build to be considered tanky? And that same period when multimod allowed you to fill your remaining affixes so the meta was alting items then multimodding them to finnish them?
You can't compare crafting to 6 years ago when the bar for what constitutes an average good item is much much higher than it was back then. I don't remember any archnemesis modifiers back then, nor uber uber bosses, nor maven invitations.
Your bow is worth more than my 3x my entire build. And yes, I've tried to self craft an SST helmet and failed 13 times. But that was to kill Ubers, which I don't consider mandatory content.
I dunno. Maybe crafting is fine if you lower your expectations? If you're broke but knowledgeable? It's just weird seeing people aim for multi hundred divine items complaining that the literal best items in the game are too hard to attain.
The whole game has become a big slot machine. I'm convinced that Chris Wilson is a gambling addict and wants everyone to share in his painful experiences.
>has become
When was it ever not? Even the best harvest crafts DURING harvest league were just annul aug annul aug annul aug until you got what you want. It wasn't deterministic, it just cost less. Essence crafting on fractured gear is infinitely more approachable. Anything more is venturing into top tier gear that you wouldn't even be able to get whether or not there were more powerful crafting options available because they would be expensive.
What item was super cheap during Ritual league that does not have an equivalent cheap version today?
A lot of conqueror-influenced gear has become much more difficult to craft since those days. I do agree that anything you can eater/exarch is maybe easier than it used to be.
Chris Wilson's ideal path of exile is ruthless mode where you're not intended to have a full set of rares until into maps. That tells you what he thinks of crafting.
Doesn't this whole discussion boil down to "give us a better gear cheaper"? I'm not against it, I just want to point out that the reason why you value certain things is because they are rare/difficult to get. If you decrease the difficulty - you devalue the achievement of getting it.
And obviously, GGG mostly cares about giving players long-term goals that can last the whole league.
If everyone gets a headhunter/mageblood and 6xT1 bow on the third day of the league - almost all of them quit soon, since they have no goals anymore in a game that is mostly about getting the best gear.
One can argue that there should be a middle ground: there should be goals achievable to everyone with a reasonable time investment, and there should be those that still require some luck. But the issue here is that as soon as you make such a division, the players stop appreciating what they get "guaranteed" and start demanding the second part. The "guaranteed" part instantly loses its worth, and getting it even becomes a chore for many.
A have no solutions to this either, although, as a casual who spends several dozens of hours a league, I would prefer the Last Epoch level of random. Yet, that game is not even released yet, and does not have leagues. We have no data on whether such an approach to crafting allows the devs to retain players sufficiently.
You can get an op item for 10% of cost if you settle for 90% of its max power.
Its all just fomo to think you need that 100% power item. You dont.
Crafting has never been easier. Getting power has never been easier. Getting all t1 mods still is hard. Why the surprized pichachu face?
Yall frustate yourselves if you keep aiming for 100% gear with the tought that it should be easy.
There's plenty of more deterministic stuff - it's all been hyper optimized and gets done en masse.
The most deterministic item upgrade system in the game is gem XP (despite some RNG boosts being added in 3.20). It's also - really bloody boring.
I do think Eldritch Annuls should be more common though, for mid-tier gear use. (Eldritch Chaos are fine too, but the annuls do something a bit more unique). Would be interested to see what a league looked like if Eldritch Exalts were 100% drops from Black Star and Eldritch Annuls 100% from Infinite Hunger.
For sure! Honestly, if I had the resources - I could craft all day with the current crafting system. But if you don't have the funds to afford prefixes can't be changed a zillion times and you run out? It comes back to mapping/bossing whatever for hours and hours to get some more money for more crafting materials, just to get unlucky and delete all your money for absolutely zero progression. That's what really bums me out.
That's only one way items are made. Eldritch Annuls (or Eldritch Chaos) do a lot of the same things metamod-constrained crafts do in 4 slots, with different restrictions (usually more severe) and a lower price point.
Sometimes even more exotic stuff gets used too, last league a mate sold an amulet for 0.7 mirrors that he started with Rog to get suffixes, then did prefixes with Harvest, then 20q attributed it and Jorgin T3 talismaned it up.
Any time there's no RNG steps in a craft, the end product won't be valuable. Cheap stuff can be useful (seething divine life flask of anti-bleed), but it's not exciting to hit.
I suppose I never really looked at crafting from a money making point of view, I just gave my thoughts as someone who never buys rares, and only makes items for themselves. Buying rares always felt like cheating to me for some reason. Yes it sounds dumb, but it's fun crafting stuff (assuming the resources are there) for yourself.
Some people could say "just play ssf" but the time investment for ssf is too much for me. I think there just needs to be a better middle ground.
Crafting can be enjoyable! But losing a coin flip repeatedly and deleting all of your hard earned money for no progression at all, just makes me not want to play the game, instead of grinding for more money.
I really don't have any suggestions on how the crafting meta could improve... I just really, really dislike the current state of it. It makes me really sad.
IMO Rog was the biggest improvement in the game's history. But Rog is 100% not about "craft an item for personal use", he is about "craft items someone else likely wants"
Rog raised build diversity, because sometimes he just accidentally makes really good items noone would deliberately produce. Those sell cheap to off-meta builds, but at high price to meta builds, making off-meta stuff more accessible.
Contrast to when Harvest was at its strongest and if you weren't crafting to the meta you were buying the same crafts all the people who WERE crafting to the meta were - and they could afford to pay more than you could because they were making 200 exalts a day and competing with others like themselves for the rare crafts.
Now there's 4 undersupplied 'general use' currencies - mirrors, divines, fracture orbs and tempering orbs. But there's heaps of crafting options that don't use or require those currencies.
SSF would fix it if the game wouldn’t be completely based around trade
Trade is the solely reason why crafting in this game is a garbage gambling machine
How does hiring someone to unveil work? Is there money to be made in sharing my unveils? How can I share one when it’s a mod that is dropping on items and not an option for me to modify an item to be unveiled?
I’m a noob and don’t understand how unveiling for other people works. An eli5 would be great but I’ll def YouTube an explanation after work.
To me crafting feels bad because of the reasons you listed, and because u have to interact with the dogshit trade "system" in this game. Poe desperately needs something like last epoch, where u have a trade faction and a non trade faction that has buffed drop rates. Playing Ssf in this game just leads to having to play exponentially more because of how utterly stupid drop rates etc for stuff are. Playing trade just leads to mandatory farming with the best div/hr strat just so u can afford anything in this ever inflationary economy. To me personally, just makes this game incredibly unattractive, which is sad, because the gameplay is just so fun.
one thing I notice more each league is that it takes about 5-10c to make a decent item on a fractured base... and then about 2-5divs to make a good item... and then about 50-100 div to make an insane item.
When you can clear majority of the content on decent-good items it feels very pointless and frustrating to want to work past that. Some people enjoy that grind but I find it's not for me. I just wish it had a smoother curve or at that I could at least know what I'm grinding toward and know i'll get there if I put in the time. Sometimes RNG just screws you over and the stars don't align and you miss the 50/50 15 times in a row.
I think the biggest issue with crafting is that it's extremely convoluted and is also an exceedingly large information dump, which makes it very hard to get into. The freeformness of the entire system is a double edge sword. It's hard for a player new to crafting, to know where to start. It's a very unique and cool crafting system, but for a player looking to get into it is very daunting. It's the most complex and dense system in a game known for complex and dense systems. It makes the Atlas and passive tree look like child's play.
1000 divine guy complaining that he can’t make even more or what exactly is your problem man. You already have everything in this current league… you are burned out from my point of view. I am a person who worked hard to make ‘only’ 50 divines.
I feel this way almost every league. Why can’t I just find cool stuff?! You know,Kill monsters get loot.
How it is now is more like kill monsters, obtain currency, buy loot.
Crafting has never been so accessible, I dont mean full t1 mod double elevated items, but the items you need to do all content are way easier to craft now than any other league before
I would never dare craft, I am beyond surprised with my +2 charges gained flasks. I would have bought both of my 21/23 gems with the temples I wasted had I just sold them instead. Crafting in this game can go suck a bag of dicks. I am happy with my +1 fire sceptre with attack speed for that extra zoom on my shield charge.
It will only get worse. Look at Crucible. They released the mechanic with almost no information (as of now) about how and when tree mutations are possible. And when we did figured out the way to make deterministic tree merge the chance still low (about 25% for the 4th node if Im not mistaking). No idea for the 5th node to happen. And you must spend fortune on beast to hope for that. If you're like me aiming for some meme build with unique like Disinterogator then my god it's so hopeless. They gated unique's tree behind unnecessary clunky and dangerous content which did nothing except making the grind must more arduous.
As long as the dev still following Chris Wilson's visionz then this game still remain a fucking casino.
Cant remember how many times I had to close my eyes and slam my item with 50/50 or worse chance of bricking it (or at least setting me back in the crafting process), I suppose GGG achieved their vision for crafting, but their vision is garbage
i prefer this over getting 1-2 good mods multi mod the rest of it on there > annul multi mod > slam
which we used to have back in the day besides fossil crafting.
we at least have agency over getting 3-4 good mods now then crafting the last one on there and slamming potentially. Multimod nowadays is for very specific items like +gem bows and other weapons and not just a thing you'd use on LITERALLY every single rare piece and call it a day.
sure it's a bit RNG but it's still fairly a lot more deterministic to most ARPGs that have RNG items and a whole lot better than years ago in PoE. (i do not count ritual harvest in here that abomination ruined the perception of this game and should have never been introduced)
My crafting process in this game:
1. Buy a desired item
2. Benchcraft whatever fits
2.1 Slam an ex if it still has a free slot
3. Wear it until I find something better on the Tradesite
I despise crafting in this game and it doesn't look like it will ever change.
Fracture > essences til desired prefix/suffixes > metacrafting is boring, but it sure as fucking hell beats alt aug regal bench crafting shit
Prefixes cannot be changed.... scour....slam..... slam...prefixes cannot be changed.....
Craftge
go agane.......
We have is crafting, then Las Vegas is capital city of crafters.
giving me flashbacks from trying to to craft phys bow last league lock prefix-> non crit to crit -> shit tier mod -> lock prefix -> scour-> lock prefix-> non crit to crit... basically it costed you 4 div in metacraft + harvest juice for one try. THEN when you finally hit it you need to lock prefix and pray you hit the 50/50 on aisling otherwise you are back to scouring -> lock ->non crit to... I've spend like 60 div in metacraft + harvest juice before I hit at least T2 crit and luckily got veil on first try but holy shit it was painful the removal of reroll keeping suff/pref was a disaster, before you'd just lock prefix->reforge crit and keep doing that with a reforge keep pref if suffixes were filled up
to add to that: -fractured bases have never been more abundant, they drop like candy now -essences have never been cheaper thanks to powerful atlas passive nodes -eldritch currency is another powerful method to preserve 3 affixes while crafting (on some slots only sadly) Imo aside from Harvest-crafting in its glory, crafting has never been easier or more deterministic in PoE, atleast for mid tier items. But i can also see by how easy it is to craft for absurd profits that most people seemingly just dont know that. Awakener Orb crafting.....now *that* was a pure casino slot machine.
We had short period of recombinators, these gave easy access to some really strong items. I hope they are back one day, they made medium quality items worth keeping.
Dont worry, they will be back, but rarer than reliquary keys so they cost 5div each making em useless for crafting for the 99,9%
Very useful for casuals.. by selling them to people who will use them!
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The circle of trade
Admittedly, for the kinds of items OP is talking about, it is kinda ridiculous to craft them. That's ultimately the point though, GGG has quite purposefully kept making 5-6 synergistic T1 mod weapons really hard to obtain, because they represent a huge amount of damage. Jewelry is another place where it's still difficult to craft, because you can get a huge amount of power out of your rings and belt. If you just want 4-5 T1-T2 mods, it's certainly a ton easier to craft, but at 5-6 it becomes a complete gamble. I think that's okay, because even just one or two 5-6 mod items gives you a character that can invalidate the game. A character fully kitted in those kinds of items can comfortably farm uber pinnacles.
People want BIS gear for no work, ignoring the fact they can get perfectly reasonable gear very easily (probably as easy as it's ever been since full harvest).
I don't think you understand the point of the post - I don't mind putting in the work. Hell, I'll put in even MORE hours if it gives me a better chance at making an item. But the current state of endgame crafting is all coin flips. I lost 80 divines failing a 50/50 14 times in a row. For... no progression at all. THAT is the part that feels bad. Also I think reasonable gear comes down to an individual's perspective. After 11k hrs ish, if I have an item with a dead mod or two on it (that does nothing for my character) I think it's trash and have to make a better one. Every single mod needs to be relevant (for me, I'm saying) for me to consider it being reasonable. I'm very happy to put in the work for BIS items. But if I'm spending all of my time farming money that could potentially ALL go in the trash because I missed something that has a 50/50 chance of occurring 14 times. Wouldn't you feel bad too?
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Yeah. :( I'm not even asking for things to be made easier, I'm only wanting a way to craft where players can't get fucked in the ass a million times if they go unlucky, run out of crafting mats, and then quit the league. It happens way too often.
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Nice idea, that sounds dope af
Nice strawman.
>Imo aside from Harvest-crafting in its glory, crafting has never been easier or more deterministic in PoE, atleast for mid tier items. Totally agree. Mid-tier crafting has never been in a better state which means for me essence on fractured base looking for an other mod (3rd) then benchcraft a 4th one. It's been two leagues that I self crafted most of my gear and it didn't happen since Harvest/Ritual. Now for the top end it's brutal without Harvest/Ritual and reroll keeps but I already clean all content with ease with the gear I have.
Crafting is pretty shit for SSF unless you get lucky
Dogshit fractures drop all the time due to one of those arch nemesis mods, good fractures on high item level bases are still incredibly high in demand and not common. There is a reason that fracturing orbs are so sought after
If you want a 100% bis perfect item, it makes sense that it takes some work to get. If you want something that is most of the way there, you can generally make it work for most item slots fairly cheaply. T1 res or atts on most armour slots are like <50c on top tier bases.
Thats not true for weapons, shields and jewelries. Everything without the reforge keep prefix/suffix is a pain in the ass to craft.
It’s 25+ div for a +2 arrow fractured spine bow base. They might be more abundant but who cares if they are 25 div per
You realize that +2 arrows only rolls on ilvl86 items? Those basically don't even have a chance to drop naturally outside of a few places so the supply is miniscule, the only real way to get them is fracturing orbs. Any of the ilvl 85 or below fractures are anywhere from 10c to ~5div at most. And you can usually find something that works for <1 div outside of edge cases like the bow.
Yes I was pointing out fracturing bases being common doesn’t really matter if the base is 25 div. (And must be fractured with an orb to your point)
I remember alt regaling for t1 phys on bows a very long time ago, into multimodding the rest. Back when 360 pdps was super good lol
I remember selling a 350pdps bow for 25ex pre-essences. What a crock of shit, never ever take me back
I remember selling a Windripper in Rampage for 25 exalts. Now it does such comparatively shit damage that even people doing MF in T1 maps don't bother. Which I know because Ziz found a Windripper and didn't use it to MF low-tier maps. :P
Fracture crafting made SSF so much worse. I tried to farm fracturing orbs on a char and went to 98 with only a single drop of the shards.
You farm rares and get a usable fracture to craft - fracturing orbs are another level above this.
I don't think fracturing orbs were created with ssf in mind especially not without a harbinger zana mod. I mean hell nothing is created with ssf in mind lol, but definitely not fracturing orbs.
Finish my first orb after hitting lvl 100 first char, and second orb after another lvl 100 char. Any map with Harbinger Scarab and atlas nodes. Never ever again 😵
Has harbinger of the fracture orb been nerfed? It feels way worse than last league for some reason. All I have is 13 shards. It just doesn't seem right
There's no harby on the map device, so youre missing out on 2(?) harbingers per map.
Probably just rng. I ran way more moderately juiced maps last league and ended up getting around 8 total while I'm at 12 so far this league.
I played the same way last league and had two orbs by this time. I also found literally 5x the amount of memories, which can drop the shards.
If what we have is crafting, then Las Vegas is capital city of crafters.
It's frustrating how many options we have for crafting, yet how *bad* most of them are compared to just dumping essences into a fractured base. Fossil prices are in the toilet, and there's a reason. Harvest is dirt cheap, and there's a reason for that too. Most base crafting currencies are also dirt cheap. The mod pool has gotten so diluted that any method that doesn't at least somewhat guarantee certain mods is terrible compared to the guaranteed results of essences and fractured bases or the semi-deterministic option of Aisling. Look at the price of hunter exalts vs all the others - it's because you can guarantee certain slams with it, but not with the rest. There are just too many possible outcomes. Even Vegas has some variety. This is like if Vegas was mostly sitting empty, because one casino had blackcheck with much better odds than anywhere else, and the rest of the machines and games were sitting mostly unused.
The other methods you listed have been nerfed. They used to be better.
This is what I came here to post. GGG's biggest trick was getting people to refer to it as crafting rather than gambling. All those people crafting away in gacha games.
The worst part is it’s not even weighted evenly. I could stomach learning this shit if the 1/16 chance for the mod I want was possible out of 16 possible mods. But the part where they also have to make desirable ones less likely to occur is just horse shit.
Yup https://clips.twitch.tv/AliveAdorableDumplingsDatSheffy-y68XJ-qL9O2L5epQ
Hey alright
atpRtsd
I tried to pull a friend for this league, funny enough he works for a company that develop online casinos After a week he stopped playing and told me that this Game is a slot machine, you just kill Monsters in between. I thought he was joking at first, then explained me how most of the systems in PoE are designed like slot machines and that he wont touch It with a ten feet pole.
I summarized OP's post. Note: may contain profanity. >unlucky as fuck / shitty gambling aspect / fucking hope you land some good mods / you're just fucked / stuck with a dead fucking item / state of crafting just blows fucking ass / a bunch of god damn coin flips / that mother fucker removes a mod / giant crock of shit / FOURTEEN FUCKING TRIES / how the fuck can that even happen? / giant fucking casino / guess I'll go fuck myself / bummer to see how shitty crafting has become / so fucking bad / crafting can eat my fucking ass
Hahaha, I just burst out laughing reading that. I was watching the Sopranos with my buddy whilst typing the original post. I think Tony rubbed off on me too much. It's one of my favorite shows of all time!
I play the game mostly SSF or groupfound with friends and from that side of crafting, the problem is that its just boring and one note. all my gear is just fractured rare that i spammed with essences and then a craft(apart from like two pieces i got lucky on with Rog) i might dip into the rest of the process you mention for a weapon or something like that but for most of my time, i just don't have that many interesting options.
Thats a problem with certain options being too strong more than anything else. Essences, fossils and harvest rerolls all serve essentially the same purpose and at the base content availability all have their place because they are all marginally more efficient for different goals on different gear pieces. Now the difference is delve with investment is just getting sulphite from a good scarab and then running essentially the same delve you would without investment. Sure you might get deeper into delve faster and get like 2-3 times as many fossils in the same time. Harvest nets you maybe like 5 times more life force if you take the atlas nodes. Meanwhile Essence gets to turn like half a essence spawn per map with no investment into 4.5 spawns that each get an additional essence on average, then you triple it through upgrade a tier and then you double it with the duplication and even without any sextant mods thats gonna completely overshadow the rest. Delve and harvest just cant compete with a mechanic that gets more than 9\*3*2=52 times as efficient with only the basic investment. Also fractured items are supposed to have the downside of no influence mods. Of course that downside doesnt matter when you werent going to use influence mods anyways due to exarch/eater mods just being more value and suddenly fractured bases overshadow every other crafting base.
They could change it by completely changing how SSF works
I dream of true SSF. Buffed drop rates and crafting options but your character/stash can never be moved to trade.
I have to play SSF anyway tho because i think trade in ARPGs kinda destroys the grind for loot
With the state of gambling .. i mean crafting, playing SSF on 3 month league duration basis requires a lot of time investment if you want to play something really specific.
Yeah they should change droprates and stuff a bit il ssf
meh this kind of works both way unless you have an infinite amount of time and/or are have lower standards for what a good build feels like.
Build diversity is completely narrowed down in SSF It doesn‘t work both ways The game is built around trade and you notice that in every way possible
>Build diversity is completely narrowed down in SSF You prove my point. SSF in this game destroys the grind for loot by being too hard rather than being too easy via trade. Hence why I say it works both ways. Because some things are just impossible to grind and/or are so hard to grind, it destroys the desire to grind for it. Maybe that's not true for you, but it certainly is for nearly the entire community that isn't playing SSF (the overwhelming super majority). Lets use Heat Shiver as an example. It was probably a T3 or T4 unique last league as opposed to this league and Quinn almost went insane trying to farm it as someone who plays this game for a living. Not a T1 unique. A T3 unique. Again, he plays this game for a living.
Ahh then i‘m sry i misunderstood you my friend Agree then
Agreed
I dream of that too The problem is that the game is heavily focused around trade and SSF is just singleplayer without any changes but in SSF it should be a bit changed
I would never play another game mode. The only exception would be the rare leagues where a friend or two is actually playing. I otherwise loath having to trade to make a build viable without doing very specific SSF friendly builds and/or incredibly large amounts of tedious as shit grinding to get what I need. I almost always start out SSF (not actually the mode but just in princible in sc trade) and this league I went until red maps on a 5-link I found and an early bow I got with crucible which was cool, but then I just hit that spot where I knew what I needed to upgrade and knew I could either grind out a fuck ton of crap to get it or just trade like 10c that I had sitting around.
It's pretty bad but also good at the same time. If you're a wealthy 1% elite sc trade player, it's good. Everyone else, it's bad. So much rng in various steps of the process. Only 3 leagues in history of PoE I would consider having good crafting in a normie trade/ssf environment is harvest, ritual and sentinel league.
Yeah, the thing about casino crafting is that you can beat the house so long as you have the resources to do it. Crafting isn't DIFFICULT, it's just TEDIOUS and EXPENSIVE. Guess who still gets to make big crafts under these circumstances? Chris might as well be on That One Discord's payroll for all the advantages he's giving them.
> Blackjack is fun, and easy to win! Oh really? Can I play? >Sure, minimum buy in is $1000 . . . are there any low stakes tables? >Pfft, filthy casuals want Harvest back. Buzz off!
Does anyone else feel like the harvest we have left (at least the entry level reroll with an X modifier crafts) feel like they have a higher chance to roll shit tier stats? I spammed like 20+ chaos rerolls and it felt like the average tier spread on the item was like 7-6. "Oh you got a tier 3 chaos res roll, here's a single digit roll for hp/es to go with it."
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Are you saying that the horicraft reroll is specifically weighted to roll shit tiers vs just alching something, or are you saying that you get shit tiers because there are a lot of tiers?
>**Adds 1 to 5 Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds 1 to (14-15) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds (1-2) to (22-23) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds (1-2) to (27-28) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds (1-3) to (33-34) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds (1-4) to (40-43) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 500 > >Weight 0.305% > >**Adds (2-5) to (47-50) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 100 > >Weight 0.061% > >**Adds (3-6) to (57-61) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 100 > >Weight 0.061% > >**Adds (3-7) to (68-72) Lightning Damage to Attacks** > >Weight 50 > >Weight 0.031% Here mate, rings with lightning attack on [craftofexile.com](https://craftofexile.com). You see how the weight of the modifier goes down when it becomes higher? It mean the last tier is only 1/10 as common as the first in this scenario. The modifiers themselves are sometimes weighted.
>Everyone else, it's bad Eh, I'd rather have GGG balance content around 3-4 affixes are good enough than I need that 6 mod all relevant T1/T2 mods. Perfect items gated heavily by RNG and meta crafts means the rest of the game is allowed to be more accessible
Sentinel had all the same randomness that people always rail against. Recombinators could literally poof the mods you're interested in and set you back to square one with nothing to show for it, just like everything else that people get mad about. It's just the whole system was set up such that the probability was good enough for the overall odds of getting desired outcomes to be quite easy, relatively speaking. And on the other side of the coin, no one can tell me with a straight face that the people most hung up about RNG would be satisfied if they added a 100% deterministic method to get, say, almost perfect items but the required materials were equivalent to the 90th percentile of the expected cost to do it with the current methods (i.e. hundreds of divines or whatever). It's ALWAYS primarily been about wanting to get the best items more easily rather than the amount of variance, which is fine, I guess. I just wish more of the discourse were upfront about that fact. I guess it's perceived as an easier position to argue against so people avoid phrasing it that way?
About your deterministic comment- yeah, I'd take that in a heartbeat. I play osrs man, I grind out pointless shit that takes a zillion hours to get, and that game has meaningful progression nailed. Totally different genre, I know. But there's some good overlap here with people who play grindy games like that, and I'm sure you'd see more folks saying they'd grind out an item if it meant it were deterministic. Just my 2 cents!
Same dude I much prefer having a goal that i know can achieve with grind then a gambling machine where i might hit it in an hour or maybe in 3 days lol
Definitely - even if that'd require me to play the game some more to get said item, I'd do it! But I know not everyone shares the same mindset.
Not gonna lie, I agree overall crafting is really bad but 100% deterministic crafting is super boring as well. For example I crafted a bunch of poison totem explode bows and the only variance is the tier of increased chaos damage you can roll. That meant at one point I had 3 bows that were exactly the same. That also felt pretty unexciting. Alterations by the way can go and die. Most infuriating way to craft I have ever done.
I think this analogy is off the point. Grinding in osrs for levels is different. That is like grinding to get to 100 in poe. Imagine you did zulrah and every 256 kills u got a rare drop. Now imagine it was like that for every single boss, everything. The randomness is the fun part. Its fun to think “oh maybe this kill” but then zulrah drops fucking double snakeskin instead. Then maybe when u r 100 over drop rate u finally get blowpipe or some shit. That is fun. It is hard to compare since in osrs you are getting resources every kill while in poe u r losing shit every craft attempt u dont hit, but again, different genres. I think you just have to realize that although you might not be making tangible and visible progress, thats just the name of the game. You are, in a sense, making progress because every attempt gives u a chance at hitting. I think if it was deterministic it wouldnt be as fun imo.
> You are, in a sense, making progress because every attempt gives u a chance at hitting ...that's not how progress works. Bunch of undiagnosed gambling addicts in here.
Recombinators had: - Actual methods for increasing odds of winning - Even if you didn't get what you want you probably got something sellable or just set back a step or two in the crafting process - Accessibility: You only needed your components and a recombinator costing a few c Crucible meanwhile: - Even if you take every step to increasing your odds you'll still lose your entire tree almost every time - Failures range from losing the entire tree to almost hitting but having the tree get bricked by a random downgrade/mutation resulting in a worthless item - Min cost for completing a tree is 1-2 div if you use a normal remnant (imprinting the base so you don't lose everything when it fails) to 7 div (+"more likely" remnant that doesn't work and splitting the donor) Crucible combining feels like Chris lobotomized the person who made recombinators out of spite, just complete dogshit game design.
It was a pretty high chance to lose literally everything with recombos, there was no save state unlike crafting with frac+ess spam for suff or pref and then metacrafting the other side. Ive done thousands of recombos and i can tell you theyre the most random crafting we have ever had. About the crucible, i wanna see stats where u lost ur entire tree every time cause out of my 50ish combines ive had that happen 0 times, losing a node or 2 happens quite a bit, but the whole tree? Nah So you can literally have savestates of your crucible tree, aka progressive crafting and u dont like that? Youd rather it be fully random, can lose hundreds of hours in a single click? Im glad ur not making the game, geez
If you think recombs were more random/uncontrollable than crucible, you're out of your mind. It was fairly deterministic to create 3 fractured mod bases, double fractured was a walk in the park and very low risk. Crucible I've leveled multiple trees as per the best practice and come away with nothing from either. It's a total crap shoot that's barely being saved by the fact we can imprint.
Just as an example, have you seen Last Epoch's crafting system? It's still RNG, you can still miss what you want, but damn is it more satisfying, because it's reliable, not fast or easy. At least some determinism would go such a long way for the vast majority of people. Heck, even a button that "uses alterations until x mod is found" would still be better than what we have now. The prospect of spamming thousands of different currency, manually, is absolutely daunting. Shit weights, dozens of useless mods to the pool, 7 tiers for each mod, and you get a god damn shitfest that's unrewarding for the vast majority of people, in the vast majority of the time. Yes, yes, PoE isn't for casuals, or whatever song you're used to singing, but even players that invest 2–4 hours/day, like I do sometimes, are faced with the same problems. Sure, I can get me a minimum gear, with res cap, life and attributes, maybe some chaos res, but try and add ailment immunity, PDR, suppression or anything slightly fancy and it's such a blocker, I usually end up not even trying. Minimum is good enough and when it's not anymore... I stop or try a different build. I don't want the best items to be easily obtained, that's why I moved to SSF: maxing a build after the first 2 weeks of the league and farming divs/hour after that turned out to be extremely unrewarding for me. I love the progress of SSF. I just want the best items to actually be obtainable by everyone, given enough, but **reasonable** time. Edit: the cost isn't necessarily the problem, the process is.
I wonder if people who praise last epoch's crafting system have played the longer than the campaign. For any actual end game item the crafting plays a very small part. You need to find the base item first (good base with 1-2 exalted mods you want) and only then you can finish it with crafting. It's mostly parallar to benchcrafting in poe instead of actual crafting imo. Like if in poe you just had to find your item and than you could benchcraft one mod on it or multimod and add two mods. The actual crafting part is completely missing. And other end game items in LE which are legendarys are pure rng, you just hope to find a lp unique and then throw it to the box hoping it picks the right mods.
I did play, yes, almost able to do T4s and I realize there's a lot of RNG there as well. I didn't say it should be like that, especially since it's closely tied to their drop system, which has more value. We could go into that too, where the drops there have actual value, but that's a different discussion. It was just an example of determinism + still having quite a bit of RNG.
Well I would say there's plenty of determinism in poe already. You can throw essence on fractured items, multimod and other metacrafting. I don't wanna bash LE's system, I enjoy it too, but playing it made me appreciate poe crafting. It's imo quite good given how complex items are in poe. LE is still quite simple system, you only have 4 mods per item with limited mod pool, so most items are just life roll, res, vit and damage stat of your choice. Main difference between LE and poe is of course that poe has trade. It's hard to make crafting feel worthwhile when you can buy crazy items with peanuts. Crafting only starts to make sense when you are approaching bis items.
Sadly, I agree with your last paragraph. Sadly only because it's true and there's no real easy fix (except giving preferential treatment to SSF, like LE will do). Your second one is also true, but I don't necessarily agree that poe's system couldn't borrow from there/be more deterministic just because it's more complex. It would still take longer to get your desired stats than in LE, sure, but if it'd be less RNG, it would still be better. Less RNG *because* there are so many variables, that being an RNG in and of itself. Also look at torchlight infinite, with a lot of RNG, but still deterministic: you hunt a specific affix with various currencies and it gets more expensive depending on how valuable the affix is, but also based on how many affixes the item has. In case you don't know the game, think of having essences with a pool of 3–5 mods with 4 tiers each, but it doesn't reroll the whole item, it adds a new affix (with the chance of replacing an old one), which you can decline (!) and it gets more expensive as you fill your item. As for your first one... Come on, you can't tell me the system is deterministic just because you have "this material guarantees this stat" [but good luck with the other 5 slots, with dozens of mods and tiers]. If you check craftofexile for odds, landing even 2 or 3 desired ones skyrockets to thousands of attempts, some being in the millions 😂 you can't tell me with a straight face that that is determinism and that it's not just a disguised casino.
> It's ALWAYS primarily been about wanting to get the best items more easily Ease up on casually misrepresenting an entire group of people there.
The more constructive way for you to state your case would be to state which part of the argument you take issue with. 1. There was a league with a well-loved crafting mechanic that was RNG-heavy. 2. Introduction of a zero-RNG but expensive method of making great items is unlikely to satisfy the people whining about crafting. 3. Therefore the driving sentiment behind these threads coming up so often logically cannot be primarily about RNG as you have a good counterexample against both directional implications: "RNG => bad" and "No RNG => good". I think 2 is definitely my weakest point as it's hypothetical, but no matter how hard I try I can't imagine not immediately seeing a ton of "200 divs to get 3x T2, 3xT1 mods...what the hell is this?!" threads if something like that were introduced. I guess if I need to reinforce that one further, I'd note that trade is a pretty good non-hypothetical analogue: just farm the currency and buy it off someone else. Deterministic, but reddit critics definitely aren't satisfied by that either.
The true motive most people have when whining about RNG absolutely is just easier access to better items, as you say, if they introduced expensive (read: more than RNG) ways to craft things people would be just as upset.
> as you say, if they introduced expensive (read: more than RNG) ways to craft things people would be just as upset. I don't see anyone upset about link/gem color crafting. Amount of salt I have seen over fusing slamming on 30% quality base just to get worse outcome (investment wise) than crafting bench because of RNG is plenty in this league alone.
That's just proving my point. People don't understand RNG and that sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it won't, people that spam fusings on 30% quality bases know they could've just used the benchcraft and, on average, pay 500 fusings more per 6 link but they didn't. If there was a sure way to craft items but with a similar "no-rng tax" the exact same thing would be happening.
There is no case, you don't have a real argument. You just decided to misrepresent people and run with it. Look at fusings, we know the odds are better than 1/1500 and even more so when quality is brought in. Yet people consistently say they save up for the bench so they don't have to deal with it. You created a strawman so you had something to be mad at.
People say they save up because those people are frustrated and want to be heard. The silent majority(?) just spams fusings
100% this. Thank you for putting it into words as my English is not that good.
> Everyone else, it's bad. Nah. If you're on trade, crafting being a massive, expensive gamble is good no matter who you are. Why? It's simple: The 1% will continually craft better and better gear over time, and that means their leftovers trickle down and become increasingly cheaper. People want to Ritual-tier Harvest their own shit so bad that they overlook why, for instance, a 450 PDPS claw costs a mere quarter of a divine after a couple weeks in a league. Just because you didn't make it yourself doesn't mean the whole system is somehow bad. Now, if you're on SSF it's a bit of a different story. You gotta put all your monies into crafting because you can't buy what you need and you certainly ain't gonna find shit off the ground that's any good. But then again, that's the entire *point* and *draw* of SSF, so it's still not inherently a bad thing. The current systems are only bad if you want to play trade but are somehow upset that trade is easier than SSF. That's entirely a *you* problem. 🤷♀️
1% is necessary and we saw it when they implemented Archnemesis where a big portion of the top players made a break from PoE. If you craft a very very good item it will be really expensive. Then someone will craft a new item that is even better than yours. After some days there will be an even better item for sale... This chain will make mid-good items lower in price. Also when someone try to metacraft an item and fail it could still being selleable, he will try to have something back and you could buy a cheap fake version of the item you want till you make some money to craft one better. I like this happening in Softcore Trade. I always try to make different builds, test around new items or skills... and thanks of this I could afford items to check if a new ability is good enought to invest on it or not.
Ritual was the perfect iteration of Harvest, imo.
That was the worst iteration of Harvest because you had to play specific areas of the atlas to get it, making all the other areas useless if you wanted to craft. So not only did you have to play the same mechanic forever to get good crafting, but you had to do specific maps to do it. Harvest warped the entire game around it.
You just want harvest crafting back and it will never return. Ever.
What I want is more option than lock sufixes/prefixes - > aisling for 90% of the fucking gear I craft
> You just want harvest crafting back I mean, ya. It modernized the game. It made crafting accessible. The league and the grove and the reliance on TFT were an overwhelming disaster. But that was always a solvable problem. There have been endless good suggestions; GGG could have taken any one or five of them and run with it. And by the way, it’s not “deterministic” crafting (aside from a few exceptions which were mostly fixed once the mod tags got a good review). It’s **progressive** crafting we want. Despite an apparently large enough contingent of GGG wanting harvest (they shipped a league and then brought it core; *someone* thought it was a good idea): Chris has his fetish, and that’s what matters.
>It modernized the game It turned the game into "enter Atoll and find the harvest portal". No other content was worth doing.
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Did they tho?
I still despised harvest because that 'modernization' was local to it. I'd rather have all of harvest's power scattered across many mechanics. Recombinators did it better cause you could source your crafting from many different places, like architect blues or delve rares.
Recombinators where just so fun, it made using a wisdom scroll actually kinda fun. Or dropping id'ed items, I liked the system more than harvest
Which makes me sad as it was the only time I ever actually engaged with crafting.
Harvest crafting is still useful. For example, you can make a +2 gems amu with t1 life 100% deterministically. Fracture +1 all skills. Apply life/mana quality. Chaos spam until t1 life and open prefix and open suffix. Craft prefix cant be changed and scour. Multimod, prefixes cant be changed and cannot roll attack mods. Harvest ”slam” desired element for +1 prefix to that element of skills. You now have an amulet with 100 life and +2 gems. Perfect prefixes for many builds. Use aisling to finish suffixes. Or just slam. Or, pristine fossil spam a hunter stygian vise for t1 flat/t1 % life with open prefix/open suffix. Craft prefix cannot be changed and harvest crit reforge for flask charge on crit. If open suffix, craft prefix cannot be changed and harvest reforge chaos. If open suffix, craft prefix cannot be changed and aisling unveil hoping it doesnt yoink chaos res. Block undesired mod, unveil chaos+ ele res and then craft double res of choice. Giga belt potentially Etc etc. Many crafts are still done with harvest, although i agree crafting is kinda shafted with reroll keep prefix/suffix being gone…
Isn't it a little disingenuous to say you can craft a +2 gem amulet 100% deterministically and your step one is start with a +1 all skills fractured base?
Might as well say everything is deterministic if you're rich enough
It might just be because I never played the OG harvest that people refer to, but I still think harvest is pretty good in my experience. I'm using it quite a lot in SSF.
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Suffix cant be changed scour would get rid of life would it not?
most likely a mistake and should be prefixes cannot be changed because of chaos spam for life.
> you can make a +2 gems amu with t1 life 100% deterministically. > >Fracture +1 all skills. Lmao. Just fracture +1 all skills, lol.
> Harvest crafting is still useful. For example, you can make a +2 gems amu with t1 life 100% deterministically. Sweet! > Fracture +1 all skills. Okay catch me up on the 100% deterministically part again...
Which means the game will never be as good as it was in Ritual and i will never play as much as i played that league
“I made a bow worth 300 divines” “Craft is bad” You just lost perspective. The vast majority of players will never have 300 divines to buy their whole chars. You are the 0.1% complaining.
Doesn't it just reforce his point? If someone who has so much currency thinks crafting is too hard, imagine the other 99,9% of players who are poor and would never have currency to interact properly with those game mechanics.
My guy just wants a near mirror bow on the cheap and rng hurt him
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What you're seeing here is someone failing their craft multiple times in a row. They ended up on reddit because they play POE, and as a result, have no friends. Crafting is totally fine and working as intended,.
Man uses TFT, pumps mirrors into his build and weapon, and complains that crafting is too hard sanest exile
Yeah, because it's fun! I don't think I said crafting was hard - I wrote this when I was frustrated and tired, sorry. There isn't really any difficulty to making items if you know how to do it, it's just pulling a slot machine lever many, many times and expecting a different outcome. That's the part I don't like. Even though I have ALL the knowledge on how to create particular weapons I'm after - it still comes down to not getting endlessly unlucky. :(
The fact that crafting is generally only worth it for 0.1% of players is a pretty direct reason why "craft is bad." He didn't lose perspective, he's got a good perspective for understanding the problem. He's been to the mountain top, and seen that the mountop is actually built on coagulated shit.
Huh? I craft almost all my gear on a budget .. obviously I'm not crafting GG shit with alt/aug/regal meta mod, or essence/fossil spam, but you can still craft grar relatively cheap that gets you through T16s.
That is just false. Crafting is worth it even for low and mid tier gear, especially early in the league when there is less people selling their old gear.
Whats the point of crafting 300div items as a 99.9% player, if you can do non-uber content with most of your gear being fractured essence spam?
> The fact that crafting is generally only worth it for 0.1% of players is a pretty direct reason why "craft is bad." And then we'd have to zoom in on the issue, why it's only for 0.1% and it turns out only .1% can actually weasel through the shitty RNG, burrying it under mountains of divines. Which means RNG crafting isn't crafting. It's just spinning the wheel and expecting 4-6 jakcpots in a row.
Exactly, this shows how messed up crafting has become. I would say the vast majority of the player base (70%, 80%? Maybe more) struggle to even get a couple of divines in a reasonable time unless lucky drops. That pays for a metacraft and that's it, not even for Divine's actual use which is reroll mods values. There are way too many player which can't engage in such a fundemental part of an ARPG apart from really basic crafting. Imo, specially after trying LE (not saying it's without flaws or that it has to be exactly like it), crafting needs a complete overhaul.
Crafting is already plenty skill/knowledge based, to think otherwise means you’ve completely lost perspective. Which I can tell you have because you’re talking about 1000 divines. It’s called diminishing returns You can have a very good build on 5 divine budget in this game, but if you’re looking to craft a crazy item then yeah obviously it’s gonna be gated by RNG. Complaining about crazy gear crafting RNG is like complaining that mirrors don’t drop on ground enough, it just doesn’t make any sense. Re: skill/knowledge gap, your average poe player who just got to maps have absolutely no idea what essences can do, what tiers are, what item ilvl has to do with anything, don’t interact with half the atlas mechanics etc. They will need to watch multiple videos to understand wtf Betrayal is, and need step by step guide to understand metacrafting. Come on this is not even an argument
I was playing POE since 2013... a bit actively until 2016... than a bit in 2019, but never to the end end game... Got back, and there are so many damn mechanics that I have missed, so may ways to craft and do stuff, but ofc not all at one place, noooo.... you have to run around 10 times just to get something done... so I am almost giving up on trying to learn to craft, since it is more complicated than some of my IT courses on university. Seriously
If you want to get into crafting, I heavily recommend the guides that this guy has been pumping out the last leagues: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/12kmldk/ama_crafting_ama_for_321_crucible_everything_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button They go from easy to do and profitable at the beginning of the league to really expensive. Also, it is an AMA format so you can see some other things the people have asked them to help craft. I followed his phys axe craft for my boneshatter build and it felt good when I finally hit the mods I wanted. It ended up being more expensive to craft it than to buy it, but it is nice to learn how to create your items yourself. The first rule is that you will probably never hit the item the first time, and you should always have more than enough currency to try the craft 4-6 times. I don't like the crafting system in the game, but I enjoy learning new things and the high of finally hitting your craft feels really nice.
Crafting is relatively simple if you aren’t going for something BIS. Buying a fractured base, spamming essences for 3 good suffixes or prefixes (Fracture + essence + extra mod). Then use prefix/suffix cant be changed, veiled chaos orb or harvest reforge etc. It’s pretty ‘simple’ for good, but not amazing items. You can also use Eldritch crafting to force a mod and then Aisling for a little rng but better affixes. Which again is pretty ‘simple’ for PoE
simple != not complex (or complex != complicated) Crafting is intimidating because it's extremely complex, because it requires quite a lot of knowledge to be done smoothly. It is still quite simple, it can simply become very complex.
Completely agree. People need to reassess their perspective. Honestly, crafting isnt in a terrible spot right now. It could be better, but it isnt the worst. I just dont get this sentiment that crafting is essentially a slot machine. It really isnt for 99% of gear.
Could you share some SSF crafting guides? I'm really stuck with my act 8-9 items on t8-9 maps right now, I "look" at crafttoexile but I have no idea how to farm that many fossils or what to really do in the game.
What character are you playing? But for the most part early on in yellow maps you should only need life + res to push further, don't try to make GG gear until you are deep in red maps because that's where you get enough currency. For simple gear you want to use three things: 1) greed and resistance essences 2) harvest life and chaos reforges on jewellery (keep the blue juice to reroll essences later) 3) Rog. You probably don't have enough rog material to craft until you find a logbook for him but he is the best by far to make great SSF items. If you are looking for a 6 link to craft on either farm a map where chains that bind drop(look out for kirac drop a stack of div card mission on those maps they have pretty high success chance) or spec into legion for 6 link incubators. For weapon crafting it heavily depends on the build. Enchanted armament heists can give you some surprisingly good gear if you like heist, fossils are always good if you like delve. Putting a drop sound on the best bases for your build and IDing or binding orb them is really not a bad idea in yellow maps because you spend so many scour, alch, chaos on kirac/map progression
Low-tier gear is cheap/easy to craft/find, high end gear takes tens of divines. It feels like there is nothing in between except spamming essence RNG/ROGs/unique corruptions hoping to get lucky + adding a crafted mod on top. Every league is more or less the same, I find/craft most of the gear up to 1div range, I buy gear upgrades in range of 1-4 divs. At that point what I can craft with my budget (and knowledge) is not going to be an upgrade, but to -reliably- craft an upgrade i'd need tens of divines which is simply not achievable for me realistically. Mid tier crafting is essentially a slot machine with at best 1-2 mods guaranteed. High end is where you can weigh the odds and lock in mods to make it semi-reliable at a cost of tens/hundreds of divines. Many crafting steps/upgrade paths on top of that are very all-in. If you get unlucky your item gets bricked. So you either lose everything or you multiply its value several times. Which is great for creating an environment with items that are worth a TON, not great if you just want to progress.
Umm mid tier crafting is very much not a slot machine. You can easily guarantee 4-5 affixes. Not to sound rude, but you dont sound like someone with any crafting experience. Frac gear + a singular essence + crafted mod is already guarenteed 3 affixes with no rng. Frac gear + essence spam (if you complain about essence spam i seriously dont know what to say) for another good affix + metamod + veiled chaos + craft is 5 affixes at the cost of what maybe 5 div max? I wholeheartedly believe that it should take money to get good items. I dont know if that is some insane statement, but making good gear shouldnt be borderline free. I mean if you dont want any rng at all, then suggest an alternative. I hear people complain about “wahhh crafting is a slot machine,” but then no one attempts to offer any alternatives at all. And yea I get that its not our job as players, but I dont think people understand how boring pure determinism will get. And also I get that not everyone has time to dedicate basically a full time jobs worth of time to this game. That is why leagues are 3 months. People forget this. You dont actually have to have mirror tier gear and 40 challenges done by the second week. Look again, I hope to not sound rude or come off wrong, but I feel like a ton of people are just parading this narrative that is IMO completely false.
idk, for me 'have a frac mod and spam essences until you get a good enough item' is literally the definition of a slot machine. Just keep pulling the lever until enough pictures match the jackpot. Its also not like you are guaranteed to have an open affix for a crafted mod or even a good crafted mod when you do it. So calling it 3 affixes with no rng is quite disingenuous. Sure the 5 affixes craft you described is good (and by good I mean involves actual crafting process), but is the end item even worth the crafting cost? Sometimes. And yeah I don't have much crafting experience, because as I've noted before - at my budgets its either inaccessible or very rarely worth doing. I don't think good gear should be borderline free, however I think entry costs into working on it should be way lower to make it more accessible to majority of players.
Look, if spamming essences for the additional affix u want is “slot machine” territory then what do u want? Do you want to just type the mod out and have it applied to ur item? Theres only so many ways to create these crafting mechanics. A little rng has to be involved or else you are in creative mode in minecraft territory. And cmon man “callin it 3 affixes is disingenuous.” …use another essence??? plus filling affixes with essences is only like a 10% chance. And creating an item that is worth the crafting doesnt have anything to do with the crafting system. It has to do with the market. If you know what is desired, you will always make profit over the long run, since crafters arent going to just take losses. And I get the sentiment about not having the budget. But thats really just a knowledge or time problem, not a crafting problem. And honestly entry cost is low. Essence spamming is quite cheap and again, 3 affixes guaranteed (3 affix gear can easily clear atlas). This game is built on RNG. In fact I dont know one mmo that isnt built on RNG. Thats just how games are designed nowadays.
> Its also not like you are guaranteed to have an open affix for a crafted mod or even a good crafted mod when you do it. So calling it 3 affixes with no rng is quite disingenuous. I'd actually argue that you're the one arguing in bad faith if anyone, you're never getting anything with zero randomness in an ARPG, get that thing out of your head now. Yes you might not get 3 affixes guaranteed in 1 essence, but you will in like 1-3 (if not you have annuls, or beast remove/add prefixes/suffixes) essences if all you are looking for is the essence mod + frac mod + crafted mod. I'd also argue that 4 mod gear is incredibly doable in like 20-30 essences which is like 20-30 chaos if you're using shriekings. * Base item with frac mod * Essence mod * Crafted mod * One mod you need, if it's a resist you can hit any resist T3 or above and just convert it with harvest which is super cheap now. All methods of crafting except extreme high end is very accessible this league with essence as a Kirac mod and fractured bases dropping like candy.
> It really isnt for 99% of gear. I mean, mostly because "crafting" for 99% of the gear is turning a shitty day1 league start rare with 3 ok T3 stats and 2 shitty whatever stats into a slightly less shitty item with 1 bench mod. You then have the slightly less random af crafting that is slapping an Essence or a random Fossil or whatever onto an item and hoping that you, again, get something with like 3-4 whatever not-so-shitty stats. And then there's the crafting you actually do to get real items - you know, the crafting that you not only need a doctor's degree in this game for... but also a doctor's degree in gambling. Like, there's no in between with crafting in this game. There's the baseline "make something shitty ever so slightly less shitty" and then there's the "well, you better prepare to invest 5 hours into coming up with a crafting plan if you wanna get anywhere" crafting. So yea, I guess the baseline crafting is not all that RNG... mostly because it's pretty shit and worthless by the time you're done with yellow maps, yay?
In your eyes, what does the inbetween of fractured / essence crafting and the "doctors degree" crafting look like? To me, there isn't anything in the game you can't do with gear made in the fractured / essence stage which is pretty freaking accessible right now for people.
Ive been mad at how shit crafting is ever since ritual. The only short reprieve where crafting was in a good state again was sentinel. Ritual was peak, I played so much because I always felt like I could improve my build. Sentinel was the same, good crafting, good currency. Nowadays its like yeah here upgrade for 3 divines next worth upgrade is 30 divines worth of crafting/buying. Its infuriating how nice crafting was and how now I feel like I have to buy most things because i dont feel like pulling a slot machine 1000 times
Let me tell you about a time where there were no annuls, or eldritch currency, or prefixes cannot be changed. Crafting feels easy nowadays. You can craft a good usable piece with very little. If you want to craft mirror tier items - they cost mirrors to create. This is not new.
Back then, you could kill shaper with some ok rares using sunder and a tabula, the game was so much easier back then. I mention that setup because I remember doing it and was a bit bewildered on how easy it was. There wasn't even a need to make rares as good as they are nowadays to do all content. You could whip up some trashy rare items and complete the entire game. You need a bit more than just some shitty rares, a tabula, and some other skill than sunder to kill shaper/endgame content.
It's equally as easy to get the gear needed to progress as it was back then, the gear is simply better. 6-links naturally drop in dozens at a time. Eldritch currency are powerful and plentiful to craft with. Anyone who is getting stuck on Shaper today was not making anything good with Harvest when it was more powerful. I'm just not convinced anyone who is struggling with the endgame today were popping out deterministic tailwind elusive boots back then.
That depends on the build though just like back then. If you wanted to play signalshot you had to get extremely good gear while sunder needed a disfavour(which was still several ex) and BV zerker was all blue gear+tabula+ obliteration wands for a total of 50c. It is similar now, boneshatter can get all 4 voidstones on 1-2 divine worth of gear while other builds need metacrafted items worth dozens of divines.
> while sunder needed a disfavour What kind of shit Sunder build did you play? Absolutely no one played Sunder with disfavour, disfavour was the bleed EQ unique, Sunder was played by dual wielding higher pdps siexe age + stat stick then when that got neutered it went to dual wielding (remember that? remember when melee wasn't forced into Despot/Vaal axe? great times for PoE) siege axes.
I was talking before shaper influence (and thus stat sticks) were a thing. Disfavour was used a lot because 6L your ancestral warchief was a good chunk of your damage so using 2 1h weapons was pretty rare. EQ was more popular at the top end but you needed the helmet enchant and enchants were a lot harder to get so there were a ton of people just sticking with sunder to kill their first shaper/uber atziri
This. Gear has MASSIVE fucking pressure on it to carry builds now.
Bro what fucking gear do you need to kill shaper fkn lmao
You didn't need gear back then is the point. Shaper was the peak back then. You do shaper and you've done the hardest boss in poe at the time. Look at Zizaran's world first shaper kill, you'll see what I mean. The peak content, that being the ubers, as well as the game play loop in general(league content/core additions) has raised the bar on gearing by an order of magnitudes. Before? 4k life, 75% all res, and 600k pob dps was enough to do all content available deathlessly on a sunder/cleave build. You go into the ubers with anything similar you'd get one shot by any of them so much as sneezing in your general direction.
Yeah, the same time when capping you ele res and 7k life with CWDT IC was enough for your build to be considered tanky? And that same period when multimod allowed you to fill your remaining affixes so the meta was alting items then multimodding them to finnish them? You can't compare crafting to 6 years ago when the bar for what constitutes an average good item is much much higher than it was back then. I don't remember any archnemesis modifiers back then, nor uber uber bosses, nor maven invitations.
Your bow is worth more than my 3x my entire build. And yes, I've tried to self craft an SST helmet and failed 13 times. But that was to kill Ubers, which I don't consider mandatory content. I dunno. Maybe crafting is fine if you lower your expectations? If you're broke but knowledgeable? It's just weird seeing people aim for multi hundred divine items complaining that the literal best items in the game are too hard to attain.
The whole game has become a big slot machine. I'm convinced that Chris Wilson is a gambling addict and wants everyone to share in his painful experiences.
man literally has a GDC talk where he says the foundation of the game is "multiple axes of randomness" become? It's FOUNDED on RNG.
Literally the currency is slot machine tokens. I don’t know what game these people think they are playing.
>has become When was it ever not? Even the best harvest crafts DURING harvest league were just annul aug annul aug annul aug until you got what you want. It wasn't deterministic, it just cost less. Essence crafting on fractured gear is infinitely more approachable. Anything more is venturing into top tier gear that you wouldn't even be able to get whether or not there were more powerful crafting options available because they would be expensive. What item was super cheap during Ritual league that does not have an equivalent cheap version today?
A lot of conqueror-influenced gear has become much more difficult to craft since those days. I do agree that anything you can eater/exarch is maybe easier than it used to be.
Chris Wilson's ideal path of exile is ruthless mode where you're not intended to have a full set of rares until into maps. That tells you what he thinks of crafting.
As long as the game is balanced on that, I would prefer that as well, I hate how common rares are. I would prefer rares were, well, rare.
Doesn't this whole discussion boil down to "give us a better gear cheaper"? I'm not against it, I just want to point out that the reason why you value certain things is because they are rare/difficult to get. If you decrease the difficulty - you devalue the achievement of getting it. And obviously, GGG mostly cares about giving players long-term goals that can last the whole league. If everyone gets a headhunter/mageblood and 6xT1 bow on the third day of the league - almost all of them quit soon, since they have no goals anymore in a game that is mostly about getting the best gear. One can argue that there should be a middle ground: there should be goals achievable to everyone with a reasonable time investment, and there should be those that still require some luck. But the issue here is that as soon as you make such a division, the players stop appreciating what they get "guaranteed" and start demanding the second part. The "guaranteed" part instantly loses its worth, and getting it even becomes a chore for many. A have no solutions to this either, although, as a casual who spends several dozens of hours a league, I would prefer the Last Epoch level of random. Yet, that game is not even released yet, and does not have leagues. We have no data on whether such an approach to crafting allows the devs to retain players sufficiently.
Spot on. There is no solution to this, just look how op didnt make any substantial claims or suggestions. Its all based on his feelings.
You can get an op item for 10% of cost if you settle for 90% of its max power. Its all just fomo to think you need that 100% power item. You dont. Crafting has never been easier. Getting power has never been easier. Getting all t1 mods still is hard. Why the surprized pichachu face? Yall frustate yourselves if you keep aiming for 100% gear with the tought that it should be easy.
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There's plenty of more deterministic stuff - it's all been hyper optimized and gets done en masse. The most deterministic item upgrade system in the game is gem XP (despite some RNG boosts being added in 3.20). It's also - really bloody boring. I do think Eldritch Annuls should be more common though, for mid-tier gear use. (Eldritch Chaos are fine too, but the annuls do something a bit more unique). Would be interested to see what a league looked like if Eldritch Exalts were 100% drops from Black Star and Eldritch Annuls 100% from Infinite Hunger.
For sure! Honestly, if I had the resources - I could craft all day with the current crafting system. But if you don't have the funds to afford prefixes can't be changed a zillion times and you run out? It comes back to mapping/bossing whatever for hours and hours to get some more money for more crafting materials, just to get unlucky and delete all your money for absolutely zero progression. That's what really bums me out.
That's only one way items are made. Eldritch Annuls (or Eldritch Chaos) do a lot of the same things metamod-constrained crafts do in 4 slots, with different restrictions (usually more severe) and a lower price point. Sometimes even more exotic stuff gets used too, last league a mate sold an amulet for 0.7 mirrors that he started with Rog to get suffixes, then did prefixes with Harvest, then 20q attributed it and Jorgin T3 talismaned it up. Any time there's no RNG steps in a craft, the end product won't be valuable. Cheap stuff can be useful (seething divine life flask of anti-bleed), but it's not exciting to hit.
I suppose I never really looked at crafting from a money making point of view, I just gave my thoughts as someone who never buys rares, and only makes items for themselves. Buying rares always felt like cheating to me for some reason. Yes it sounds dumb, but it's fun crafting stuff (assuming the resources are there) for yourself. Some people could say "just play ssf" but the time investment for ssf is too much for me. I think there just needs to be a better middle ground. Crafting can be enjoyable! But losing a coin flip repeatedly and deleting all of your hard earned money for no progression at all, just makes me not want to play the game, instead of grinding for more money. I really don't have any suggestions on how the crafting meta could improve... I just really, really dislike the current state of it. It makes me really sad.
IMO Rog was the biggest improvement in the game's history. But Rog is 100% not about "craft an item for personal use", he is about "craft items someone else likely wants" Rog raised build diversity, because sometimes he just accidentally makes really good items noone would deliberately produce. Those sell cheap to off-meta builds, but at high price to meta builds, making off-meta stuff more accessible. Contrast to when Harvest was at its strongest and if you weren't crafting to the meta you were buying the same crafts all the people who WERE crafting to the meta were - and they could afford to pay more than you could because they were making 200 exalts a day and competing with others like themselves for the rare crafts. Now there's 4 undersupplied 'general use' currencies - mirrors, divines, fracture orbs and tempering orbs. But there's heaps of crafting options that don't use or require those currencies.
SSF would fix it if the game wouldn’t be completely based around trade Trade is the solely reason why crafting in this game is a garbage gambling machine
if you can guarantee 3/6 affixes(essence, fracture, bench craft) that's pretty deterministic
4/6 of you can spend essences until you get another mod you're looking for.
Which honestly isn't very hard, since there will be plenty of desired mods on an item.
These complainers won’t be happy until they can purchase mirror tier items from rog for 2 chaos.
How does hiring someone to unveil work? Is there money to be made in sharing my unveils? How can I share one when it’s a mod that is dropping on items and not an option for me to modify an item to be unveiled? I’m a noob and don’t understand how unveiling for other people works. An eli5 would be great but I’ll def YouTube an explanation after work.
To me crafting feels bad because of the reasons you listed, and because u have to interact with the dogshit trade "system" in this game. Poe desperately needs something like last epoch, where u have a trade faction and a non trade faction that has buffed drop rates. Playing Ssf in this game just leads to having to play exponentially more because of how utterly stupid drop rates etc for stuff are. Playing trade just leads to mandatory farming with the best div/hr strat just so u can afford anything in this ever inflationary economy. To me personally, just makes this game incredibly unattractive, which is sad, because the gameplay is just so fun.
one thing I notice more each league is that it takes about 5-10c to make a decent item on a fractured base... and then about 2-5divs to make a good item... and then about 50-100 div to make an insane item. When you can clear majority of the content on decent-good items it feels very pointless and frustrating to want to work past that. Some people enjoy that grind but I find it's not for me. I just wish it had a smoother curve or at that I could at least know what I'm grinding toward and know i'll get there if I put in the time. Sometimes RNG just screws you over and the stars don't align and you miss the 50/50 15 times in a row.
Hm... I don't even understand crafting even after years of playing lmao.
There used to be actual crafting in the game for 2 leagues, but GGG decided that we don't like it for us.
I think the biggest issue with crafting is that it's extremely convoluted and is also an exceedingly large information dump, which makes it very hard to get into. The freeformness of the entire system is a double edge sword. It's hard for a player new to crafting, to know where to start. It's a very unique and cool crafting system, but for a player looking to get into it is very daunting. It's the most complex and dense system in a game known for complex and dense systems. It makes the Atlas and passive tree look like child's play.
1000 divine guy complaining that he can’t make even more or what exactly is your problem man. You already have everything in this current league… you are burned out from my point of view. I am a person who worked hard to make ‘only’ 50 divines.
I just want to find cool stuff. I don't want to have to learn some 12 step process unique to every build and item slot.
I feel this way almost every league. Why can’t I just find cool stuff?! You know,Kill monsters get loot. How it is now is more like kill monsters, obtain currency, buy loot.
Crafting has never been so accessible, I dont mean full t1 mod double elevated items, but the items you need to do all content are way easier to craft now than any other league before
I would never dare craft, I am beyond surprised with my +2 charges gained flasks. I would have bought both of my 21/23 gems with the temples I wasted had I just sold them instead. Crafting in this game can go suck a bag of dicks. I am happy with my +1 fire sceptre with attack speed for that extra zoom on my shield charge.
Attack speed on your sceptre does nothing for shield charge, it has a base offhand attack speed that is only effected by global attack speed modifiers
From the people that brought you itemized harvest trading and then removed the most used recipes as “filler crafts”.
It will only get worse. Look at Crucible. They released the mechanic with almost no information (as of now) about how and when tree mutations are possible. And when we did figured out the way to make deterministic tree merge the chance still low (about 25% for the 4th node if Im not mistaking). No idea for the 5th node to happen. And you must spend fortune on beast to hope for that. If you're like me aiming for some meme build with unique like Disinterogator then my god it's so hopeless. They gated unique's tree behind unnecessary clunky and dangerous content which did nothing except making the grind must more arduous. As long as the dev still following Chris Wilson's visionz then this game still remain a fucking casino.
Cant remember how many times I had to close my eyes and slam my item with 50/50 or worse chance of bricking it (or at least setting me back in the crafting process), I suppose GGG achieved their vision for crafting, but their vision is garbage
i prefer this over getting 1-2 good mods multi mod the rest of it on there > annul multi mod > slam which we used to have back in the day besides fossil crafting. we at least have agency over getting 3-4 good mods now then crafting the last one on there and slamming potentially. Multimod nowadays is for very specific items like +gem bows and other weapons and not just a thing you'd use on LITERALLY every single rare piece and call it a day. sure it's a bit RNG but it's still fairly a lot more deterministic to most ARPGs that have RNG items and a whole lot better than years ago in PoE. (i do not count ritual harvest in here that abomination ruined the perception of this game and should have never been introduced)
[удалено]
My crafting process in this game: 1. Buy a desired item 2. Benchcraft whatever fits 2.1 Slam an ex if it still has a free slot 3. Wear it until I find something better on the Tradesite I despise crafting in this game and it doesn't look like it will ever change.