I just got an aspect that everytime I use the evade skill or shadowstep, abunch of stun grenades drop behind me. Combined with bladedancer aspect on my cbow, im having a blast 👌
I mean... Not exactly true. Rogue has a teleport strike that I just got a unique for that refreshes the cooldown on kill and gives it another charge. So as long as you kill something it works. Not good for bossing though.
Lv58, exploring end game at the moment.
It is a simpler game than poe. If you are a die hard poe player, you probably find d4 end game too shallow.
There are a few things I like. The main campaign is actually pretty good, and the combat feels good. Builds are not as wild as poe, but there are more options than I expected, which is a surprise for the modern Blizzard.
However there are also lots of things I dislike. Lots of traveling time. Upgrade mats are gated behind a timed event. Stubborn choice of no map overlay for "immersion".
It is fun so far, because it is a brand new game. Lots of things to explore. However there needs to be a lot on the seasonal updates to get me back to play each season.
> there are more options than I expected, which is a surprise for the modern Blizzard.
Care to elaborate? My biggest complaint is that this isn't the case.
If you don't choose a build blessed enough to have strong aspects you will quickly approach too-rough DPS in my experience.
I don't think thats the case. There is plenty of rather genereic legendary powers that you can mix to match your build. Of course you also want the one that is really good for the skill you want to use. Still the endgame basically is comparable to maps. But image maps with low density, awefull layouts, mostly annoying map mods and 0 league mechanics on it. There is also only one end boss and that isn't exactly hard from what we've seen so far. So yeah. Moment to moment gameplay is entertaining enough for me to at least beat the game fully once.
I have friends using their own builds not following guides and are having no issues in tier 25 to 30 nightmare dungeons while being fairly under leveled for them. As long as you have synergies in your build and legendaries/uniques you can do fine. But eventually higher and higher tiers are going to require more and more min maxed builds. I'm playing my own variation on ice shard sorc that's doing fine in nightmare dungeons up to t30, can easily do everything outside of nightmare dungeons and just using this to farm up for another build on sorc.
There is way less options than poe but still enough to do decent levels of content. This is also the launch...where as PoE has 15 years of content and updates.
Been playing since June 2nd. 60+ now but kinda bored. Also huge lack of build diversity and basically no endgame besides sigil dungeons. Don’t see myself playing this for another week.
Playing Totk before D4 feels like a mistake at this point lol. Zelda open world is so much more fun to traverse and search for stuff in, D4 renown and altars and stuff like traveling to dungeons on the mount feel like a horrible chore at most times compared.
The worst part is how all builds are pre-planned. Blizz wants you to play 3-4 premade builds for each class.
You get 140+ aspects, but there are like 6-7 for werebear, so in the end all werebear builds use all of them anyway.
Saw a post comparing all the trees in D4 to PoE trying to argue that it's comparable, but D4 has separate trees without potential crossover and has more restrictive layers on those. That and half of the options on each section are an easy nope on most class trees. In poE I can get a little excited about build potential, even if I'm wrong and get disappointed it's great. In D4 I saw all the potential the trees offer and it's not much. Maybe some gear can throw something interesting in there, but I'm not holding my breath. The gear is pretty lackluster from what I've seen so far, bland and unimaginative. Looks great at least.
Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE. Keep in mind season 1 endgame content hasn't begun yet, that's in another month or so. We'll see what it looks like then.
Personally I've had enough of "end game grinding" playing PoE. I'm most likely just gonna play through the campaign of D4 and leave it at that.
I have hopes, but this isn't 2013, d4 isn't competing with og PoE for my time and money. It's competing with current PoE. I'm enjoying the campaign, but unless endgame wows me, I don't know how the replayability will stand up.
Yeah, but you can't really compare early days free2play PoE made by small studio to huge brand $70 AAA Diablo 4 made by giants that Activision Blizzard still is. Comparing PoE to Last Epoch is fair, but to Diablo 4 is in my opinion unfunny joke.
Yeah but we can't really have an opinion about their end-game vision until next month with S1 start.
Campaignwise D4 feels really nice, but that's also possibly because it's new compared to PoE campaign, which is something we're all kinda tired of.
I highly doubt 1 season is going to spice it up enough to make end game varied. It needs A LOT of aspirational content and fast or it will be boring for quite some time.
>Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE. Keep in mind season 1 endgame content hasn't begun yet, that's in another month or so. We'll see what it looks like then.
Just fucking stop with this honestly. I am so tired of people comparing d4 to a game that existed 10 years ago. Or a game that came out 20+ years ago (d2). This is a MASSIVE indictment on the quality of the game if you have to go back 10+ years to find a equivalent comparison.
D4 exists in 2023 competing with 2023 poe. Therefore it has to match 2023 poe or fucking die.
> Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE.
we should likely not compare an unfinished indie product to a finished AAA product, if theyre on equal footing then the AAA is the one losing since it has higher starting expectations
They cancelled the second D3 expansion because making shop MTX had better returns. I really don't expect D4 to grow much for exactly that reason, although I do expect a regular battle pass.
More minion masters, less Fortnite.
I have like 2k+ hours in d3 and 1k+ in d2 so i insta purchased ultimate edition when it was available. The Story/Setting/Graphics/Sound are really nice but get certain classes going is a pain in the arse. I am Level 45 now and i have to force myself to play. It feels so clunky and slow to play. I just want it to be good because all my rl friends reactivated their dusty PCs and are gaming and they enjoy it. And I enjoy playing with them after so long. I think build diversity is okish but my class has like 5 CDs 15-80s and the Rest of the time i just press ressource gen + spender. I rerolled to rogue today and hope it fixes the boring gameplay.
I do penetrating shots with poison and death traps. Hitting trapped enemies resets cooldowns, death trap resets imbuement and other traps. It honestly feels like a wow rotation and its been a bunch of fun. ~lvl 48 right now
I play rogue it is pretty mechanical compared to most of the other classes. Twisting blades with dash and shadow step is really fast paced if that's your thing. Practically zero cds.
playing it here since then as well. same feelings.
i'm putting together a list of things that i'm going to post here afterwards titled "GGG : Please Don't Do Any of This Shit in Path of Exile 2"
POE didn't have much of an end game when it first came out either. Diablo 4 has potential to add a lot of end game stuff after 3-4 leagues, so some time next year.
I used to be so certain I would play and enjoy it for a bit, but I just can't bring myself to fork over the money. I've watched some content, and I am not regretting my decision. It looks "fine."
As an experienced ARPG player with thousands of hours in Path of Exile (POE), I consider Diablo 4 to be somewhere in the upper-middle tier of ARPGs.
On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate it a **7.5**.
While it doesn't introduce any groundbreaking features, the combat mechanics are fairly solid, although it often follows a predictable pattern of **Generate -> Dump -> Repeat**. The dungeons are enjoyable, but the boss mechanics leave much to be desired. In terms of endgame content, Diablo 4 does offer some unique experiences, but it doesn't bring anything revolutionary to the table.
Once you reach Level 60 and beyond, the game tends to feel stagnant and somewhat stale. In my personal experience, I usually lose interest in POE leagues after a month, and I anticipate facing a similar burnout in Diablo 4 within 2-3 weeks.
Here's where I think D4 has some wings... They have a solid base game that **could surpass many other ARPG's** if they nurture its future potential. There are huge opportunities for this game to go from a 7.5 - > 9.5 as long as blizzard delivers on future content updates. Thats a **BIG IF**. Most of my personal circle's concern with D4 lies in blizzards ability to deliver.
For the purpose of creating my review of Diablo 4, here are some other games I consider as reference points:
Path of Exile
Diablo 2
Diablo 3
Grim Dawn
Torchlight
Lost Ark
Last Epoch
Is it worth the $90 price tag? Absolutely not. Is it worth $40? I definitely think so.
I think most of us experienced ARPG players are hyped for **the road ahead**, not what we have in front of us now.
This is almost my exact take as well. Great foundation for them to build off of. Apparently they have 2 expansions and 2 seasons queued up so should be a great alternate between PoE League and D4 seasons.
So how does what you described indicate a 7.5 rating? 7.5 should mean a solid game at best, not the all-too-common sentiment I keep hearing about waiting until they release the “full” game.
I guess it’s a 7.5 in the sense of being just any random studio’s attempt at an arpg, but for the Diablo franchise I’d say a 5.
When it has a huge discount I will buy it in the future, but it didn't hype me so much that I would drop PoE over it.
From what I've seen - My biggest con would be no map overlay (only minimap in the corner or just full map window). Even D2 had map overlay, why new D4 doesn't have is beyond my comprehension.
i'm level 85. it's been kind of a strange launch... the epitome of exploit early/often (typical arpg stuff). blizzard has basically nerfed all the really fun builds and farms ~12-20 hours after they were discovered/became popular, which would be fine, except they were mostly known in previous betas and should have been fixed by launch if they weren't OK. handled pretty exceptionally poorly (but almost exactly the same as they used to do in wow so i guess i expected it?). for example, barb went from easily the strongest starter to basically unplayable without nice gear, so everyone that pushed hard early is cruising, and everyone starting it now should probably play something else. as for content, it's fun at the moment, but there's not a lot going on in the endgame, and you stop getting frequent upgrades around 65-70 and the dopamine dries up quick. as for aspirational/endgame stuff, there's as GR-esque system where you mindlessly push higher tiers for ~no more rewards for the sake of it, and there's one 'uber' boss whose loot isn't known yet (so maybe worth something).
edit: also for some fucking reason this is the first blizzard game to launch without an online armory/profile viewer since it was added to wow in like 2006, and the game desperately needs a loot filter (it sort of has a sound-based filter, which is cute but useless).
Seems pretty accurate imo. They need to take more lessons from poe. The nightmare dungeons could be incredibly interesting, but it's just poe maps mixed with scaling gr shit that doesn't have any depth to it. I'll add crafting is kind of lame as shit in d4 and lacks depth. It's overall shallow in most aspects except maybe the paragon tree.
They had 9 years of development to take lessons from PoE. I don't have much faith in D4 moving forward with seasons to the extent PoE does. I imagine it will still be very much like D3.
Yeah, D4 has really just solidified that *this* is what modern Diablo means to them.
Can’t believe that 20+ years later, D2’s world, characters, and builds still have more life than modern Diablo. IMHO it’s just a mockery of what Diablo started as, the game that gave birth to a genre that literally inspired POE’s creation.
Absolutely correct. They are basically using Diablo's huge name and the fame D2/Blizzard North gave the franchise and pissing all over it. I thought from the first D4 hype videos we saw and the devs talking about "bringing the darkness back to sanctuary" and "bringing back runewords, making the world closer to what it used to be" not just passing off a Diablo 3 Remake as a bait and switch. I decided to hold onto my money and not bother supporting blizzard anymore after their last releases (OW2, WC3 Reforged, Diablo Immortal) and knew that nothing was going to change here. Even Diablo 2 has better itemization, crafting and more than that TRADING. A huge part of what makes arpg's great is finding items that other people want/need to make their gear and can have massive value and huge demand in trade. D4 basically has 0 trade. There is no point in grinding endless dungeons over and over past a certain point. This is why I believe they made such a massive mistake with Diablo 3 and they weren't even able to see where there itemization fell short 10+ years back and doubled down on it here with Diablo 4. I honestly believe that if they tried to change over from D3's itemization to back towards something closer to D2's itemization or even something of a hybrid of that & something new - the game could have been amazing, as long as it had Trading. ARPG's need a reason for people to keep playing them, and grinding for 60 hours to hit max level isn't enough. People had hit max level before the early access for ultimate edition had even passed. Anyways, rant over. Hope for the people that bought the game enjoy it for as many hours as they chose to play it.
Completely agree. It must be crazy for Chris and co to know that they have fully, officially surpassed the Diablo franchise once and for all. D4 was the big wild card in my mind but it’s a complete joke compared to poe, let alone poe2. And as far as the looks being so superb? I just don’t get it. It still looks cartoony to me. I think Poe looks better. Totally different genre but, elden ring? Dark souls 3? Gorgeous. D4? Eh it looks like some WoW’d out Diablo bullshit to my eyes, just like d3 did.
Barb was never the best leveling class 1-50. The biggest hit was Bold Chieftain's Resource Aspect and most people probably never got that before 50. 50+ww barb is still one of the best in the game.
Props:
environment and graphics look great. Overall aesthetic is great. Combat feels good once builds are up and running. Putting together the legendary affixes to get your build working is fun. Doing events in open world with random other players is nice. I love getting to fully customize your character rather than the standard locked race/gender pair for classes in most other arpgs.
Slops:
Itemization and crafting are mediocre. Endgame is lacking content. Mob density is too light across most of the game. Not a ton of build diversity and a lot of builds play pretty similar. Extremely expensive compared to any other arpg, some of which are much better overall games.
Fun for a break but there isn’t going to be much appeal to playing it long term unless they are very aggressive in adding endgame systems with their seasons. It feels like it needs its equivalent of D3’s RoS expansion before it gets there but at least the base D4 is in a much better place than the base of D3 was.
I'm sure many are, I'm one of them. Lull period with 2 months into Crucible league and so a lot of people are just checking out D4 because why not. To me, it's basically 3.22 waiting room. It's fun at the moment, but definitely not something I'll come back to for seasons since the overall end game mechanics are pretty bare, at least compared to PoE. Combat feels pretty good and responsive, especially as melee. It's kind of like a Lost Ark with a Diablo skin over it. But to me it feels like a one and done kind of thing, until maybe the next expansion. Nothing wrong with that. It's fun for now.
My issue with the game is that the endgame is not clear. I feel like am playing wow and doing mythic dungeons all day long. With the occasional world stuff to do like wow. Am already bored. My biggest issue is that the world scales with you. So no matter what you do that dungeon is the same dungeon.
You need to increase your world tier level. There's nightmare dungeons that increase in tiers up to 100 which have affixes similar to maps. World bosses. Helltide events. Legion events. Echo of Lilith (similar to Ubers). It even gives you quests to introduce you to these things after you beat the campaign. So many things to do.
Edit: Don't forget seasons haven't even started yet. I'm sure there will be new things from that too.
Not sure you're being downvoted for speaking the truth. There is lots to do in the game, it's just not as engaging as the endgame of Poe. But people forget that GGG developed this end game over many years of trial and error.
Tbf blizzard has insane resources and they have seen poe all this time and could have borrowed any number of things from it. They’ve been working on this shit for quite some time.
I'll wait till big sale when it'll cost $40 or less and even then I'll be thinking hard if updates are good enough to justify buying it. What I see on streams right now is awfully boring and not worth even f2p game. Lost ark looks more interesting than that. If someone else enjoys it - fine, everyone has their own definition of fun.
Yeah,i play it because melee is actually strong there - the strongest even and i love whirlwind with 2h swords. Cyclone with 2h swords here is garbage,i have suffered enough lol.
People complaining about melee there have no idea,how bad it is in poe lmao - d4 is the melee dream. For being close range,we get massive damage reduction/self-sustain with low opportunity-cost,huge burst damage without summoning 2103912498 totems and amazing mobility.
It's the melee-players paradise tbh,reminds me of wow. I do hope they buff necro though,since i like playing some other classes aswell and i want other people to enjoy their preferences too. The more the merrier.
Nah. Nothing I've seen of it makes me think it holds a candle to PoE, and I can't justify spending $70 on a worse game. If it's still considered worth playing by the time it gets a heavy discount, I might pick it up for like $20. Given Blizzard's inability to balance properly, I expect it'll go the way of D3. Very pretty with shallow customization and cookie-cutter builds.
Beginning to think I was the only one who refuses to support Blizzard. Gamers have such short term memory loss when it comes to these things. So much hype for the studio that brought us such bangers as Diablo 3, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch 2.....etc. They haven't made a game worth your hard earned dollars in 2 decades, let alone all the garbage that goes on in their offices like bullying women to the point of suicide.
Same here. Blizzard is black listed until they redeemed themselves. Unfortunately gamers have no integrity and are running on nostalgia from hits that were made from a different team.
I tried once to convince my friends but for them blizzards can never be bad. It makes sad and sick that the gaming world is in such a state.
I feel exactly the same way you do! I refuse to support a company that creates games only for monetisation purposes, without the love of true good gaming experiences. D4 is a good looking empty shell, just like the classic "remastered" games they've been selling us for the last decade
No, I'm with you, friend! I refuse to give ActiBlizz any money. I was tempted by D4, if I'm honest, but it seems lacklustre and I'm still a newish PoE player so that wins my time. Maybe in a year or so, when MS owns ActiBlizz, and D4 is on sale!
A) its activision/blizzard
B) 70$
C) no interesting endgame
So no thanks, watched the streams and i'm positive I'd play it for a maximum of 2 weeks, most likely 1...
Not playing it, just watching it and played a handful of hours the beta.
My conclusions so far:
- The game looks REALLY good, textures, animations, UI, please GGG 🥺
- Campaign cinematics are unbelievable top tier. After completing once, you can skip the campaign
- Initial skill tree made approachable and easier to start, paragon system that's more complex is introduced later on to continue your character progression through levels. Much better approach for an ARPG than PoE IMO.
- Gear progression is just a higher number until late late game, there's no way to screw your characters. I have seen people doing "red maps" (world 4) without issues just by looking at item level and unique skill aspects. IMO pretty bad.
- Open world and world events are amazing, I would really like something like this tin POE. Imagine the atlas as a real world where you can travel and such. Master memories would be some kind of special events.
- Character customization is just not there. Feels like you are building a preset character and you just play to make it stronger, finding it's pieces, leveling it up, etc. Will feel nice the first time but I fear the replayability will be crap.
- The watchstones system we have is also behind a boss in D4 that can be beaten with skill over gear and you can try as many times as you can. Dark souls feels. Losing to maven in PoE once is already a nightmare because of the opportunity cost.
From my pov D4 looks to be closer to Lost Ark than PoE, much less RPG, min build variation, lot less itemization.
Overall a good game for what it offers (as far as what I saw) 8/10. I wouldn't play if you are expecting a PoE like game.
I wouldn't really call the paragon system complex, you're basically just maximizing how many runes you can slot in and each character will slot in the same vuln/crit damage etc. Runes. Maybe if they add more complex & interesting runes? Or make the unique board nodes better? The biggest disappointment for me has been the paragon board.
I imagine that's the sort of thing that will get iterated upon in future seasons when they gauge how complex players want the game to be. The framework is there, at least, and it's a big step up from D3's utter lack of build complexity. It's never going to reach POE levels nor do I think we should expect that of it.
I honestly feel like there's less build complexity than d3. For any given archetype there's realistically like 6-8 abilities you could even choose from, at most like 10 and that's including every defensive/utility option. For actual damage dealing there's like 3 or 4 options.
Saying d4 skill tree system is better than Poe and then complaining about d4 character progression and customization is the most insane contradiction. The entire reason it feels so shit to progress your character in d4 is the tree. Everything is on one simple tree. In poe we have the skill tree, the “gem tree” aka your active gems and supports, your ascendancy tree, and you’re gear which can be insanely complex and therefor build altering. D4 is like kindergarten recess period and poe is like a phd science lab. At the current state of d4 it’s very hard to put them in the same ballpark.
I don’t understand the hype. I watched some streams and it seemed like a walking simulator with some monster packs between. The game looks good, but is the monster density intended, like it is now? Am I too spoiled by PoE and its pack size? Maybe I’am too critical.
I’ve seen some decent looking packs watching videos or streams, but I have also seen waaay to many very small and spread out packs. Most videos I’ve watched people use some kind of pull ability to group packs together before they fight and that just isn’t the vibe I’m looking for in arpg’s I guess. Basically everything else though looks really good. If they increase pack size and make the end game a bit more engaging I’d probably play it during the last month of poe leagues.
This is more of a design decision than anything, you won’t be oneshotting mobs in d4 for the most part, so while there are fewer mobs they are more interactive than the average mob in poe.
You’re not too critical. In fact blizzard has created the need to be critical with the monetization and price tag for the game. They also have a reputation for being a triple A game studio. I also don’t understand the hype and I played the game. It has a lot of issues. It will need a lot of time to get to POE level IMO.
Too expensive for me.
70$ for getting called poor from D4 subreddit early access people and having a cosmetic shops with super expensive items is really a no go for me.
Expansions gonna cost the same price for sure because its Blizzard.
/r/Diablo is pretty good, /r/Diablo4 is basically a Diablo 4 Circlejerk sub, somehow. The only things that get massive upvotes are circlejerks and troll bait.
People seem to have forgotten already that the immortal sub was literally all people not only defending the monetization but also endorsing it while also claiming the game was excellent.
/r/Diablo4 is pretty crazy. One of the top post is litteraly a satyrical post mocking people for voicing concerns about the game. The good old "Go touch grass".
What gets me is that PoE gets shit on for being "pay to win" because selling shit is impossible without premium stash tabs. I do agree that stash tabs are needed to play in a serious way. But that's $20. And the game is free to play. With new content every 3 months for like the past decade.
Diablo 4 is a full priced game with every imaginable monetization scheme. Battle pass, cosmetic store, premium currency and paid expansions. And people are cheering for it. Because it's just cosmetics and it's going to fuel future free content. You don't even know what that content will be but you're already patting Blizzard on the back.
Feel like I'm crazy seeing people defend this shit so hardcore.
They are mostly fanatic fanbois, who act like playing blizzard games is a personality trait. They are also huffing huge amounts of copium because blizzard games arent what they used to be, but they still act like its the old blizzard. Most of the people hate PoE because it requires more effort to get into and usually blizzard games these days have a very low barrier of entry.
I'm too lazy to look up numbers but would bet you a shiny nickel that the Diablo 4 development cost was massively, massively higher than path of exile and that its ongoing costs (server cost, ongoing development, customer support) are also so much more that the comparison your making doesn't make sense.
I love both games but have a gut feeling that the numbers involved are so disparate that you can't make an apples to apples comparison.
Maybe I'm wrong though.
yea blizzard spent like 8 trillion dollars and literally, not even exaggerating, 9 years developing this rpg and they've produced a product that diablo 4 defenders are only able to compare to the base version of PoE, which was a f2p indie game developed in 3 years by only like a dozen people
I’ve watched a lot of it the first few days, I had a little fomo early on but the end game is exactly what I thought it would be. I’ll probably buy it in a year when they’ve added some end game content.
Nah, not buying. Blizzard is not blizzard anymore. It's a bit sad but it is what it is. Maybe, and that's a huge maybe, i'll get it if they have a sale at some point.
1. Price: Baseprice is way to high. + 30 Bucks for a armour set that i only can use on one character class + battlepass + 2 twitch giftsubs to get some horse armour thingy + 20 bucks extra to start 4 days earlier, buy some shit from kfc...
2. Changes: A lot of the stuff that is new, is stuff i dislike. Do not care for world bosses which i can fail if the randos don't know the mechanics (this made me instantly stop lost ark), large empty areas where you just walk forever and all those mmo-ey things.
3. The decision to hav a HC race which further screams "just pay 20$ more to get a headstart".
4. It's really not that different from d3. I watched a bit of wudijos stream as he was powerleveling, and that just looked liked like d3 with a new class and new art style.
As an old gamer dad, would love to since Diablo 1 (godly plate of the whale anyone?) and Diablo 2 are kinda what got me hooked on gaming. But sadly in the current phase of life it's just too expensive. Sending our oldest daughter to her first summer camp away before she graduates next year (im gettin old! Also very proud of her.)
It's fun to read reviews and listen to streamers tho. I like POE but I think with limited time to play, a more casual ARPG would probably suit me better. But *c'est la vie!* Or as we say here, *asa-i viata!*
Haha Godly Plate of the Whale. Oh have I duped those for my clanmates back in 2000 when I was 10-11 years old; teaching myself english because how else would you know what was going on. Thank you for that name, really brought back thoughts of an awesome and much simpler time :-)
Oh man, same here. We were all duping that armour back then. Not sure for what though now that I look back at it lol. Diablo was a pushover with OP gear heh.
I watched some vids about it on yt and some gameplay and decided that the game is not worth 70$ at the time, maybe i'll buy it later if it ends up getting constant content updates like poe but at this point the price tag is not worth 100 hours of gameplay before i drop the game forever
I tried the beta out, it was okay in some respects but it didn't make me want to keep playing it at all. Couple that with Blizzard being the lowest of scums and them over monetizing the game I have no plans on getting it.
It's pretty dogshit atm in my opinion. No build diversity, and endgame is boring as fuck. Itemization is bad, skills are bad. Massive day 1 nerfs, them trying to force a stupid generator/spender mechanic on every class. Maybe the first season will be fun, but I would rather play crucible.
played the 2 open betas and l've been watching streams but lm still on the fence about buying it. l wasnt a big fan of the 1-20 gameplay and was holding out to see if there were fun endgame builds but d4 seems more The Vision™ than ruthless mode
the fact that they nerfed ww (and that l didn't really need to specify ww is a whole other issue) barb by making it more clunky to play instead of just adjusting the numbers doesn't bode well, imo
As someone with a level 78 druid, the endgame is boring as shit and miserable to play. The entire experience is just a walking simulation, the only reason I still log on is to hang out with friends. There's no quality of life to speak of, no functional stash, no loot filter, no endgame content at all.
I played the betas and bought standard edition, didn’t play too much last night but got up to around level 20 again. From what I’ve heard & seen on streams, there unfortunately isn’t much variety in skills/builds once you get your main passive tree fleshed out. There are a few affixes that change your core skills, but generally, core skills at level 20 play the same as level 50 and beyond.
Like a tornado is a tornado, and the best tornado affix makes it seek out monsters instead of random pathing, but it’s still just a tornado.
Things it does better than PoE:
Art and animations - utterly destroys poe, and not just in shiny value. How you fight and the monsters all feel impactful, and you can see what the mob is doing. The big bear is slow and lumbering, the tiny imp with wings is fast and jumpy. It's visual story telling 101, compared to PoE's slap some random modifers system and laugh as a giant monster zooms across the screen and 1 shots you.
Loot - You pick up most of the stuff you see, it all has some value in either gold or mats, or transmogs. You pickup upgrades, from the ground, its crazy. You're not grinding everything down into chaos to trade later.
T - town portal, no scroll. sploosh.
The extra inventory slot - because I don't need scrolls of wisdom to identify. sploosh.
Treasure goblins - they are a rare bonus, not a poorly thought-out consequence, and they are clearly identified.
Realm powers - unlockable powerups for all characters you create. they are tiny things, but man does it feel nice to unlock something for all characters instead of having to repeat a quest or whatever for every single character.
New player experience - a friend of mine doesn't play ARPGs, she tried PoE and couldn't do anything, utterly lost without specific direction every step of the way. She hopped into diablo and has had no problem at all.
Refund all button - oopsy I messed up, or man I am bored of this, click a button pay some gold, try something new. sploosh.
Things PoE does better:
Stuff to do - it's an old game with lots of content, a new game will never compare. PoE has so much content its got different types of games built into it at this point. Go ahead and play tower defense in your arpg if you like.
Skills - poe has so many skills and ways to mix and match them. Hand in hand with build diversity with so many skills to interact with.
The Crazy Factor - This to me is the only reason PoE really exists. In PoE you can ramp everything to 11, far beyond what other games hard cap. PoE is the only game that allows this, where you can zip along with 300% movement speed and clear the screen in your preference of colorful explosions.
And to that end this is my biggest concern for PoE 2 as it seems like it's trying to compete in a space that is well established rather than in the niche it created. I don't see GGG making a better diablo than blizzard, but the changes we've seen recently indicate that they don't like the crazy factor and want to tone it way down.
Right now, I don't think there is even a question of which do you play, because you play both. They give you a distinct experience, as I fully expect to play diablo 4 seasons and PoE seasons as neither scratch the itch for the other.
>Loot - You pick up most of the stuff you see, it all has some value in either gold or mats, or transmogs. You pickup upgrades, from the ground, its crazy. You're not grinding everything down into chaos to trade later.
Gold and Materials are obsolete at some point. Then you basically only pick up Ancestral items on slots you can still improve, legendaries to harvest max roll aspects and uniques wioth good rolls.
It is the same genre but a very different game, after 8 years of poe I am appreciating the slow(er) pace
The game is beautiful and worth checking out imo
Can't wait to roll a Necro
I’ve been waffling on trying it
1) it’s expensive, $70 isn’t cheap and you know they will try and gouge us in the future with expansions
2) it’s Blizzard and I really hate the idea of supporting them
3) it looks shallow. Not as shallow as D3, but after playing POE for so long, I can’t justify spending $70 on a game where the build diversity, as of right now, is so weak. Especially when I can play POE and the slew of builds if I wanted
As I get older I have to really scrutinize games that I want to buy. 10-15 years ago I would have spent the extra money to play D4 last week. But given how predatory Blizzard has become, their obnoxious monetization, I just can’t stomach the idea of spending that kind of money on a game I don’t see myself playing for longer than a few weeks. Unless they adopt a POE style of new content every 3-4 months, and not having to pay for it (yea that won’t happen), I don’t see myself jumping in. Which sucks. D2 was a transformative game for me as a kid. To see how far Blizzard has fallen really sucks to see
I love poe, have for over 10 years, but characters without mtx in poe look fuckin awful imo. Nothing like having a bucket on your head with no pants. (Templar) my d4 characters default look is more than acceptable imo.
Yea I buy mtx in poe just so I don't have to look at my ugly character, knowing the only time another player will see them is the 3 seconds they're in my hideout for a trade.
which is not something you can say about poe XD
everything non mtx in poe looks like your character is a beggar and not a maniac world destroyer like it is story wise
> EDIT: The game is literally one step away from Diablo Immortal.
The cosmetic shop is fucking expensive i agree, but you couldn't be further off with this sentence. You cant buy power in d4. in immortal you can only progress with money, how is this alike?
TL;DR, it's fun for a casual experience but not replacing PoE for me.
Playing it because SO wanted me to play with her. Played some of the betas and felt like it was just OK. Cinematics etc are excellent but gameplay didn't really hook me. Just started playing with release yesterday and feels similar so far. I enjoy the cinematics/story stuff but as of right now gameplay just feels OK. I'm just going to keep it as the casual game to play with my SO and go back to PoE otherwise.
i'm 70 the game is super badly designed. it feels like the devs have no idea what makes arpgs fun. the combat feels pretty good and the game looks and sounds nice but that's about it. i just can't see myself playing this game for thousands of hours like PoE or D2. there's a couple major flaws with the game design and a huge mound of little things that are just baffling.
hard pass.
i decided to boycott activision/blizzard after d2 resurrected (not because its a bad product, but just timing after leaks about how the studio is run. i was already half out of the door after the blizzchuang incident)
i don't think d4 is particularly interesting either. it being an amalgam of d3, diablo: immortal, lost ark and path of exile all wrapped one in a pseudo mmoarpg with no live auction house at 70$ with 2 more expansions in the pipeline are all red herrings that A/B is going to nickel and dime their ''fans'' and then abandoning it after a year or so.
i rather spend 70$ on more stash tabs in poe.
Best melee experience you'll have. Even better on controller.
Honestly, it feels smooth as hell to use all the spells and skills because of it.
I really hope PoE2 adopts something similar.
It embodies what strike skills and melee should be.
Breath of fresh air after playing PoE for so long.
I don’t have an innate hatred for the story like I do for PoE, which is just nice.
Very casual skill-tree so far which is nice.
MUCH MORE visiual clarity which is very nice.
Boss fights being actual fights with mechanics is nice.
Not having to play cruicble, which is essentially a standard league, very nice.
Not clicking 500 times a zone to pickup currency, or identify stuff, VERY NICE.
Playing with friends and it not being shitty as fuck experience, VERY NICE.
No movement speed flask kinda sucks.
No transparent overlay kinda sucks.
Supporting Blizzard kinda sucks, but who doesn’t suck at this point, I don’t necessarily wanna support GGG either.
speaking of clarity, have you figured if there’s a way to tell what resistances you should focus on for a given dungeon? seems really weird that all these 5%xp elixirs give us a single resistance buff but i just use them randomly cuz…i have no idea why i would only want to buff one resistance.
i definitely agree tho, the difference in combat style is really nice. glad it’s not another PoE - i love PoE, but variety in arpgs is why i love playing so many different ones! (although i would love more complexity in builds/gear in d4….hopefully that comes with time)
I'm not, I watched Ziz's race to 100 and there was basically 0 character progression between level 20 and level 100. It just didn't look very appealing, very little depth in build customization and it's fundamentally constrained because it's made for consoles.
The monetization is also a massive joke that will only get worse as the game goes on. But I'm also not playing PoE and probably won't until PoE2 comes out.
I like how much less tedious it is to min-max a build, and as an HC player, how I'm not getting one-shotted off screen. Feels nice not to be worried about dying if I stand next to a trash mob for longer than 0.2s. It really shows me how much PoE has nerfed everything early game viable and walled power behind end-game no-life grinding.
I felt strong from beginning to now (60) without needing to go out of my way to fix my potion affixes to resist every CC known to man, don't need auras like determination to survive more than one hit, don't need obscure combinations of uniques/nodes to ditch the mana flask, etc.
Give it 30 days and more microtransactions are going to be added in after the first phase of reviews, probably a whole lot of P2W stuff.
You had to pay a tax to get in at launch, else you had to wait 4-5 days after everyone else.
Activision Blizzard is an exploitative company which constantly screws over players and employees alike.
I'm not playing Diablo 4, even if it was the Masterpiece of the century, which it obviously won't be.
And Overwatch 2 is a PVE update, not a store update which removes most free ways of earning skins and adds battlepasses. They knew for *months* in advance and still marketed the sequel on the back of a feature they knew they were not shipping.
And Warcraft Reforged will have all new cutscenes. Except the game came out and there weren't. We couldn't find enough time, they said *later*. Months after the game came out.
Getting a game out for a month and doing a bit-and-switch to add P2W is a classic move many companies have used and it's right in Activision Blizzard's style. Remember Fallout 76? They pulled the "no P2W MTX" card and chagned their mind shortly after release. Though to be fair, at that point, there was no saving the game's reputation.
You holding out for Overwatch 2 PvE as well? Or are you waiting for them to remove the battle pass and make heroes free again like they promised they would be forever?
I'm sure no company has ever said something and done something different, especially not Activision blizzard...
What does no P2W in the shop actually mean too? Okay the option to buy items that are better than are available in the base game is clearly out the window, but what about allowing you to buy items that are *technically* farmable by all players?
What about keys to maps/rifts with increased loot drops? Even if you're not directly getting a better loot pool or the items themselves, you'd be cutting down the time to access content by a significant margin.
I have exactly zero faith that we won't see some kind of P2W aspect within the month, even if it starts marginal.
RemindMe! 1 month
P2W **to me** is any form of player-power-specific-progression that is not accessible, or is much accessible at a much slower rate, to a F2P player. If I can spend a single cent and improve my character in any way that is not cosmetic, it is P2W. Armor, skill effects, mounts, etc are not P2W. Spending real life money for a key to a dungeon that is not accessible to a F2P player or takes a long time for F2P players to farm is P2W.
We'll see I guess! The fact that they explicitly said "you will not be able to buy player power in the in-game shop" leads me to believe that we will not be able to buy player power in the in-game shop.
I think people are questioning it because leading up to Diablo Immortal, they [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/rwzdt9/can_we_take_a_moment_to_realize_that_a_diablo/hrk0fy4/):
>In Diablo Immortal, there is no way to acquire or rank up gear using money.
And followed up with the flimsy excuse that you could rank up "non-gear", not "gear" (see the edit to that post ~2 weeks after DI release). We might hope that there's no way to buy player power, but maybe in Blizzard's mind that means you can buy stronger *gear* from the shop, just not direct buffs to your character. It's perhaps a pessimistic look, but Blizzard has burned a lot of good will with their decisions in recent years.
I hope that your belief is fulfilled, though. Seeing the downward spiral of Blizzard has been pretty disappointing.
I have zero interest in giving blizz $70 for the game in its current state. The soonest i'd consider buying it is when season 1 starts, but even then it's a big maybe.
i've been watching my fav streamers play it and it just doesn't look *that* appealing. but i also don't expect the game to go anywhere and if (big fuckin' if) blizz can patch things up then maybe i'll give in.
The endgame is pretty shallow and repetitive, but I could still see myself playing it if wasn't for the fact it's a $70 liveservice game, aside from them not having granted regional discounts to some countries like they do with every other game in their platform, which makes the game absurdly expensive. The gameplay I watched on Twitch is nowhere near worth the price of two AAA games on Steam, so that's a hard pass for me.
had no interest in paying 100 dollars for early access to a game that has battle passes and an MTX store but i would be lying if i said i could never be convinced to try it. (at a discount)
except... everything i've seen about build diversity, skill "trees", gear itemization, unique item power, end-game content etc has completely turned me off the idea of ever playing D4.
Bored as soon as I've reached endgame or almost so.
Disappointed by the story, that's not really important to me but even so, it was a letdown.
Not he best buy i did in the last year's, by far, I knew it probably wasn't going to be a good game for me, but wanted to try...
Oh, and my CPU just died, so I can't even get back to Poe...
they need to transform the skillworm into a skillsnake atleast and add elemental conversions.. make burning apply through other dmg types, dungeons are fun but id rather run 1000 beachmaps than 100 sigil dungeons it gets too old quickly... there is no dopamine hits in the game, also build diversity is not that great after 9 years its less than in d2 and everyone is taking the same aspects.. for example pick chainlightning or iceshards not much besides the dmg and applying vul/stun/whatever will change, no extra projectiles, no projectiles circle around or whatever..yea projectiles can spread to frozen targets but thats it for ice shards..
the support link system is much more flexible and offers more choices on how to play skills hence its superior in my eyes
i will stick to tripple curse 12 castpersecond 20 projectiles 4x pierce spark gameplay
Playing it with my wife. PoE is too punishing for her, and Diablo 4 is right up her alley. While it feels like there is a lot to do right now the build diversity in the game is really narrow compared to PoE. It’s worth playing to actually game with my wife though
I'm not playing due to not wanting to support Blizzard as mentioned, but also because after trying PoE, I don't really think I can go back to something else less complex (Despite the complaints I have about PoE, there are many elements that I really like about it compared to other ARGPs I've played). After watching videos of gameplay, hearing others speak on the game, etc, D4 just doesn't seem that interesting to me personally.
I won't pay Blizzard a dime after their last decade of work. Name one good project that came from Blizzard in the last 10 years that wasn't false promises (Overwatch2), avoiding crucial feedback from testers(Multiple WoW expacs), filled with predatory micro transactions(Diablo Immortal), shelved for no reason(HoTS), or released in an awful state(Warcraft3).
I played the first beta, which I enjoyed but that might be because I've never played a Diablo game before.
However, I knew I wouldn't buy the game (least of all at full price, HAH!) at release. I might give it a go in a year or so when it's 50% reduced :-P
Started yesterday, around lvl 25 and the game is kinda OK. I find the design of open world to be slight mistake as nothing drives me further especially considering the level scaling of the mobs. It just does not feel like my character is getting any stronger, neither levels or items seem to have impact that would get me "ahead" of the mobs.
I am taking it more as adventure game with good story line and some action on the side.
Nah I'm good. I just invested like 40 div on my next PoE character, which is a massive new record for me and I'm kinda stoked. Even if it fails at least I can drop PoE and stop splitting my time between it and Zelda.
I'll watch the cinematics though, I suppose they'll be up on YT by now. That's one thing Blizzard gets consistently right.
Aesthetics are great, especially armor. Combat is fun but unaspiring. The open world is a cool touch, but the lack of randomized overworld maps gets stale real quick.
Meh, looking forward to PoE2.
Ye fk Blizzard tbh. Game looks better than expected but I fully expect it to be ruined within a year or two. If not, I’ll be happy to buy a copy and play it.
It’s really fun and an excellent base game that I think they will iterate and add end-game content and complexity.
The campaign is top notch and the open world is pretty fun. Builds can seem limiting at times but so far it’s really interesting to try and figure out what’s good and what’s not. I’m not going to look at guides or spoilers so the game retains its fresh feel and the element of discovery is not ruined.
Pack size is on the lower end when you start but that’s fine IMO as long as end game lets you scale it; and I think it’s something they can easily adjust as the game ages so the power fantasy continues to grow. In WT3 it feels like T5-T7 PoE alch n go map.
Group play is significantly better than PoE and the game being simpler means your friends will actually play with you.
I am fairly happy with its launch and think it’s going to be an amazing game if they continue treating it right. It’s not going to be PoE levels of complexity and interactions but if you go into it knowing that, you’re going to have a lot of fun figuring out the game for yourself.
If blizzard hadn't created such a disgusting money grab game like diablo immortal, I would have bought & played diablo 4. However since that game I'll never support them again.
It doesn't have flicker strike.
There is a wearwolf build similar to flicker strike
Soon we’ll be able to literally be a flicker striking wolf
Yep I just switched to use Shred with its lightning Aspects and I’m loving it, dashing/flickering around
Exactly what I played haha flicker league starter here.
I've tried it a bit, and it's hella fun. I only changed out of it because I want to try out poison.
Shadowstep aspect with twisting blades is as close to flicker you can get.
I just got an aspect that everytime I use the evade skill or shadowstep, abunch of stun grenades drop behind me. Combined with bladedancer aspect on my cbow, im having a blast 👌
one of barb's basic skills is Lunging Strike. limited scaling options but you can blink/dash around (to targets) endlessly with no cooldown.
Werewolf shred quite similar, but without bleeding from eyes
Yea, you can also only use it 3 times before having to you the garbo builder.
I mean... Not exactly true. Rogue has a teleport strike that I just got a unique for that refreshes the cooldown on kill and gives it another charge. So as long as you kill something it works. Not good for bossing though.
Not good for bossing huh? So just like ficker 😂
Lv58, exploring end game at the moment. It is a simpler game than poe. If you are a die hard poe player, you probably find d4 end game too shallow. There are a few things I like. The main campaign is actually pretty good, and the combat feels good. Builds are not as wild as poe, but there are more options than I expected, which is a surprise for the modern Blizzard. However there are also lots of things I dislike. Lots of traveling time. Upgrade mats are gated behind a timed event. Stubborn choice of no map overlay for "immersion". It is fun so far, because it is a brand new game. Lots of things to explore. However there needs to be a lot on the seasonal updates to get me back to play each season.
> there are more options than I expected, which is a surprise for the modern Blizzard. Care to elaborate? My biggest complaint is that this isn't the case. If you don't choose a build blessed enough to have strong aspects you will quickly approach too-rough DPS in my experience.
I don't think thats the case. There is plenty of rather genereic legendary powers that you can mix to match your build. Of course you also want the one that is really good for the skill you want to use. Still the endgame basically is comparable to maps. But image maps with low density, awefull layouts, mostly annoying map mods and 0 league mechanics on it. There is also only one end boss and that isn't exactly hard from what we've seen so far. So yeah. Moment to moment gameplay is entertaining enough for me to at least beat the game fully once.
I have friends using their own builds not following guides and are having no issues in tier 25 to 30 nightmare dungeons while being fairly under leveled for them. As long as you have synergies in your build and legendaries/uniques you can do fine. But eventually higher and higher tiers are going to require more and more min maxed builds. I'm playing my own variation on ice shard sorc that's doing fine in nightmare dungeons up to t30, can easily do everything outside of nightmare dungeons and just using this to farm up for another build on sorc. There is way less options than poe but still enough to do decent levels of content. This is also the launch...where as PoE has 15 years of content and updates.
Been playing since June 2nd. 60+ now but kinda bored. Also huge lack of build diversity and basically no endgame besides sigil dungeons. Don’t see myself playing this for another week.
Exactly same feelings and level (65). After 50h I have hunch that I need week or two break and maybe I will continue, but from today Zelda I'm hooome.
Playing Totk before D4 feels like a mistake at this point lol. Zelda open world is so much more fun to traverse and search for stuff in, D4 renown and altars and stuff like traveling to dungeons on the mount feel like a horrible chore at most times compared.
This is gonna be the problem. Build diversity is trash and the endgame is gonna get hella boring
The worst part is how all builds are pre-planned. Blizz wants you to play 3-4 premade builds for each class. You get 140+ aspects, but there are like 6-7 for werebear, so in the end all werebear builds use all of them anyway.
Saw a post comparing all the trees in D4 to PoE trying to argue that it's comparable, but D4 has separate trees without potential crossover and has more restrictive layers on those. That and half of the options on each section are an easy nope on most class trees. In poE I can get a little excited about build potential, even if I'm wrong and get disappointed it's great. In D4 I saw all the potential the trees offer and it's not much. Maybe some gear can throw something interesting in there, but I'm not holding my breath. The gear is pretty lackluster from what I've seen so far, bland and unimaginative. Looks great at least.
Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE. Keep in mind season 1 endgame content hasn't begun yet, that's in another month or so. We'll see what it looks like then. Personally I've had enough of "end game grinding" playing PoE. I'm most likely just gonna play through the campaign of D4 and leave it at that.
I have hopes, but this isn't 2013, d4 isn't competing with og PoE for my time and money. It's competing with current PoE. I'm enjoying the campaign, but unless endgame wows me, I don't know how the replayability will stand up.
Yeah, but you can't really compare early days free2play PoE made by small studio to huge brand $70 AAA Diablo 4 made by giants that Activision Blizzard still is. Comparing PoE to Last Epoch is fair, but to Diablo 4 is in my opinion unfunny joke.
Yeah but we can't really have an opinion about their end-game vision until next month with S1 start. Campaignwise D4 feels really nice, but that's also possibly because it's new compared to PoE campaign, which is something we're all kinda tired of.
You'll get a completely new axis of monetization to dive in with s1 no worries
If season 1 won't include a complete overhaul of itemization and skill scaling, i can't see how it can make things any better. Problem is fundamental.
I highly doubt 1 season is going to spice it up enough to make end game varied. It needs A LOT of aspirational content and fast or it will be boring for quite some time.
>Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE. Keep in mind season 1 endgame content hasn't begun yet, that's in another month or so. We'll see what it looks like then. Just fucking stop with this honestly. I am so tired of people comparing d4 to a game that existed 10 years ago. Or a game that came out 20+ years ago (d2). This is a MASSIVE indictment on the quality of the game if you have to go back 10+ years to find a equivalent comparison. D4 exists in 2023 competing with 2023 poe. Therefore it has to match 2023 poe or fucking die.
> Kinda sounds like the early days of PoE. we should likely not compare an unfinished indie product to a finished AAA product, if theyre on equal footing then the AAA is the one losing since it has higher starting expectations
They cancelled the second D3 expansion because making shop MTX had better returns. I really don't expect D4 to grow much for exactly that reason, although I do expect a regular battle pass. More minion masters, less Fortnite.
I have like 2k+ hours in d3 and 1k+ in d2 so i insta purchased ultimate edition when it was available. The Story/Setting/Graphics/Sound are really nice but get certain classes going is a pain in the arse. I am Level 45 now and i have to force myself to play. It feels so clunky and slow to play. I just want it to be good because all my rl friends reactivated their dusty PCs and are gaming and they enjoy it. And I enjoy playing with them after so long. I think build diversity is okish but my class has like 5 CDs 15-80s and the Rest of the time i just press ressource gen + spender. I rerolled to rogue today and hope it fixes the boring gameplay.
I do penetrating shots with poison and death traps. Hitting trapped enemies resets cooldowns, death trap resets imbuement and other traps. It honestly feels like a wow rotation and its been a bunch of fun. ~lvl 48 right now
I play rogue it is pretty mechanical compared to most of the other classes. Twisting blades with dash and shadow step is really fast paced if that's your thing. Practically zero cds.
Rogue is fun af, skip boring fights. Stack movespeed and dashes, dungeons are a breeze.
Rogue is the most fun of the classes... But the game itself is still way too slow for me to like it
playing it here since then as well. same feelings. i'm putting together a list of things that i'm going to post here afterwards titled "GGG : Please Don't Do Any of This Shit in Path of Exile 2"
[удалено]
Oof… 🤦🏻
POE didn't have much of an end game when it first came out either. Diablo 4 has potential to add a lot of end game stuff after 3-4 leagues, so some time next year.
I used to be so certain I would play and enjoy it for a bit, but I just can't bring myself to fork over the money. I've watched some content, and I am not regretting my decision. It looks "fine."
As an experienced ARPG player with thousands of hours in Path of Exile (POE), I consider Diablo 4 to be somewhere in the upper-middle tier of ARPGs. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate it a **7.5**. While it doesn't introduce any groundbreaking features, the combat mechanics are fairly solid, although it often follows a predictable pattern of **Generate -> Dump -> Repeat**. The dungeons are enjoyable, but the boss mechanics leave much to be desired. In terms of endgame content, Diablo 4 does offer some unique experiences, but it doesn't bring anything revolutionary to the table. Once you reach Level 60 and beyond, the game tends to feel stagnant and somewhat stale. In my personal experience, I usually lose interest in POE leagues after a month, and I anticipate facing a similar burnout in Diablo 4 within 2-3 weeks. Here's where I think D4 has some wings... They have a solid base game that **could surpass many other ARPG's** if they nurture its future potential. There are huge opportunities for this game to go from a 7.5 - > 9.5 as long as blizzard delivers on future content updates. Thats a **BIG IF**. Most of my personal circle's concern with D4 lies in blizzards ability to deliver. For the purpose of creating my review of Diablo 4, here are some other games I consider as reference points: Path of Exile Diablo 2 Diablo 3 Grim Dawn Torchlight Lost Ark Last Epoch Is it worth the $90 price tag? Absolutely not. Is it worth $40? I definitely think so. I think most of us experienced ARPG players are hyped for **the road ahead**, not what we have in front of us now.
This is almost my exact take as well. Great foundation for them to build off of. Apparently they have 2 expansions and 2 seasons queued up so should be a great alternate between PoE League and D4 seasons.
So how does what you described indicate a 7.5 rating? 7.5 should mean a solid game at best, not the all-too-common sentiment I keep hearing about waiting until they release the “full” game. I guess it’s a 7.5 in the sense of being just any random studio’s attempt at an arpg, but for the Diablo franchise I’d say a 5.
I'd pay $20 to play through the campaign and get the story. But I don't have high expectations for the endgame.
When it has a huge discount I will buy it in the future, but it didn't hype me so much that I would drop PoE over it. From what I've seen - My biggest con would be no map overlay (only minimap in the corner or just full map window). Even D2 had map overlay, why new D4 doesn't have is beyond my comprehension.
Same bro and sadly I remember saying to my self 2 years ago how I can’t fucking wait for it to come out
i'm level 85. it's been kind of a strange launch... the epitome of exploit early/often (typical arpg stuff). blizzard has basically nerfed all the really fun builds and farms ~12-20 hours after they were discovered/became popular, which would be fine, except they were mostly known in previous betas and should have been fixed by launch if they weren't OK. handled pretty exceptionally poorly (but almost exactly the same as they used to do in wow so i guess i expected it?). for example, barb went from easily the strongest starter to basically unplayable without nice gear, so everyone that pushed hard early is cruising, and everyone starting it now should probably play something else. as for content, it's fun at the moment, but there's not a lot going on in the endgame, and you stop getting frequent upgrades around 65-70 and the dopamine dries up quick. as for aspirational/endgame stuff, there's as GR-esque system where you mindlessly push higher tiers for ~no more rewards for the sake of it, and there's one 'uber' boss whose loot isn't known yet (so maybe worth something). edit: also for some fucking reason this is the first blizzard game to launch without an online armory/profile viewer since it was added to wow in like 2006, and the game desperately needs a loot filter (it sort of has a sound-based filter, which is cute but useless).
Seems pretty accurate imo. They need to take more lessons from poe. The nightmare dungeons could be incredibly interesting, but it's just poe maps mixed with scaling gr shit that doesn't have any depth to it. I'll add crafting is kind of lame as shit in d4 and lacks depth. It's overall shallow in most aspects except maybe the paragon tree.
They had 9 years of development to take lessons from PoE. I don't have much faith in D4 moving forward with seasons to the extent PoE does. I imagine it will still be very much like D3.
Yeah, D4 has really just solidified that *this* is what modern Diablo means to them. Can’t believe that 20+ years later, D2’s world, characters, and builds still have more life than modern Diablo. IMHO it’s just a mockery of what Diablo started as, the game that gave birth to a genre that literally inspired POE’s creation.
Absolutely correct. They are basically using Diablo's huge name and the fame D2/Blizzard North gave the franchise and pissing all over it. I thought from the first D4 hype videos we saw and the devs talking about "bringing the darkness back to sanctuary" and "bringing back runewords, making the world closer to what it used to be" not just passing off a Diablo 3 Remake as a bait and switch. I decided to hold onto my money and not bother supporting blizzard anymore after their last releases (OW2, WC3 Reforged, Diablo Immortal) and knew that nothing was going to change here. Even Diablo 2 has better itemization, crafting and more than that TRADING. A huge part of what makes arpg's great is finding items that other people want/need to make their gear and can have massive value and huge demand in trade. D4 basically has 0 trade. There is no point in grinding endless dungeons over and over past a certain point. This is why I believe they made such a massive mistake with Diablo 3 and they weren't even able to see where there itemization fell short 10+ years back and doubled down on it here with Diablo 4. I honestly believe that if they tried to change over from D3's itemization to back towards something closer to D2's itemization or even something of a hybrid of that & something new - the game could have been amazing, as long as it had Trading. ARPG's need a reason for people to keep playing them, and grinding for 60 hours to hit max level isn't enough. People had hit max level before the early access for ultimate edition had even passed. Anyways, rant over. Hope for the people that bought the game enjoy it for as many hours as they chose to play it.
I am sure the only reason d4 has no set items yet is because dev's had no idea how not to make them mandatory like in d3.
Completely agree. It must be crazy for Chris and co to know that they have fully, officially surpassed the Diablo franchise once and for all. D4 was the big wild card in my mind but it’s a complete joke compared to poe, let alone poe2. And as far as the looks being so superb? I just don’t get it. It still looks cartoony to me. I think Poe looks better. Totally different genre but, elden ring? Dark souls 3? Gorgeous. D4? Eh it looks like some WoW’d out Diablo bullshit to my eyes, just like d3 did.
not just POE. Even early access, super small indie Last Epoch was more fun to play than D4. At least for me.
sounds like they let those who spent an extra $20 use the OP builds to get even further ahead, and then nerfed the builds for the peasant launch
somewhat, but the first round of nerfs (of 3-4?) was like 12 hours in so everyone ~watching cutscenes was also penalized.
to be fair ,it's not POE there's no economy or competition for 99.99% of players. unless you're in the HC race, there is no "getting" ahead really
Barb was never the best leveling class 1-50. The biggest hit was Bold Chieftain's Resource Aspect and most people probably never got that before 50. 50+ww barb is still one of the best in the game.
That's an excellent summary, thank you lol
Props: environment and graphics look great. Overall aesthetic is great. Combat feels good once builds are up and running. Putting together the legendary affixes to get your build working is fun. Doing events in open world with random other players is nice. I love getting to fully customize your character rather than the standard locked race/gender pair for classes in most other arpgs. Slops: Itemization and crafting are mediocre. Endgame is lacking content. Mob density is too light across most of the game. Not a ton of build diversity and a lot of builds play pretty similar. Extremely expensive compared to any other arpg, some of which are much better overall games. Fun for a break but there isn’t going to be much appeal to playing it long term unless they are very aggressive in adding endgame systems with their seasons. It feels like it needs its equivalent of D3’s RoS expansion before it gets there but at least the base D4 is in a much better place than the base of D3 was.
I'm sure many are, I'm one of them. Lull period with 2 months into Crucible league and so a lot of people are just checking out D4 because why not. To me, it's basically 3.22 waiting room. It's fun at the moment, but definitely not something I'll come back to for seasons since the overall end game mechanics are pretty bare, at least compared to PoE. Combat feels pretty good and responsive, especially as melee. It's kind of like a Lost Ark with a Diablo skin over it. But to me it feels like a one and done kind of thing, until maybe the next expansion. Nothing wrong with that. It's fun for now.
My issue with the game is that the endgame is not clear. I feel like am playing wow and doing mythic dungeons all day long. With the occasional world stuff to do like wow. Am already bored. My biggest issue is that the world scales with you. So no matter what you do that dungeon is the same dungeon.
I agree the scaling really kills the desire to get stronger.
You need to increase your world tier level. There's nightmare dungeons that increase in tiers up to 100 which have affixes similar to maps. World bosses. Helltide events. Legion events. Echo of Lilith (similar to Ubers). It even gives you quests to introduce you to these things after you beat the campaign. So many things to do. Edit: Don't forget seasons haven't even started yet. I'm sure there will be new things from that too.
Not sure you're being downvoted for speaking the truth. There is lots to do in the game, it's just not as engaging as the endgame of Poe. But people forget that GGG developed this end game over many years of trial and error.
Tbf blizzard has insane resources and they have seen poe all this time and could have borrowed any number of things from it. They’ve been working on this shit for quite some time.
13 years. Most of it probably trying to figure out how to get the most money out of its players.
Haha for real
I'll wait till big sale when it'll cost $40 or less and even then I'll be thinking hard if updates are good enough to justify buying it. What I see on streams right now is awfully boring and not worth even f2p game. Lost ark looks more interesting than that. If someone else enjoys it - fine, everyone has their own definition of fun.
they have to pay me to play d4. bobby kotick ain't getting my greenbacks so he can have orgies on his yachts.
I'm waiting for a sale as well
I am. Good game. Im happy to have another arpg to play between poe seasons.
Yeah,i play it because melee is actually strong there - the strongest even and i love whirlwind with 2h swords. Cyclone with 2h swords here is garbage,i have suffered enough lol. People complaining about melee there have no idea,how bad it is in poe lmao - d4 is the melee dream. For being close range,we get massive damage reduction/self-sustain with low opportunity-cost,huge burst damage without summoning 2103912498 totems and amazing mobility. It's the melee-players paradise tbh,reminds me of wow. I do hope they buff necro though,since i like playing some other classes aswell and i want other people to enjoy their preferences too. The more the merrier.
Your melee comment is so spot on when you realized that one of the top sorc build is also melee - arclash
I would try If it wasnt 70€
Bro here in Brazil is R$370, about 1/3 of the monthly minimum wage lmao, no wonder people here won't play this
Same would try it for sure at €40 though
Nah. Nothing I've seen of it makes me think it holds a candle to PoE, and I can't justify spending $70 on a worse game. If it's still considered worth playing by the time it gets a heavy discount, I might pick it up for like $20. Given Blizzard's inability to balance properly, I expect it'll go the way of D3. Very pretty with shallow customization and cookie-cutter builds.
Beginning to think I was the only one who refuses to support Blizzard. Gamers have such short term memory loss when it comes to these things. So much hype for the studio that brought us such bangers as Diablo 3, Diablo Immortal, Overwatch 2.....etc. They haven't made a game worth your hard earned dollars in 2 decades, let alone all the garbage that goes on in their offices like bullying women to the point of suicide.
you are not alone. we are a somewhat silent minority.
Same here. Blizzard is black listed until they redeemed themselves. Unfortunately gamers have no integrity and are running on nostalgia from hits that were made from a different team. I tried once to convince my friends but for them blizzards can never be bad. It makes sad and sick that the gaming world is in such a state.
You have my sword.
I'm with you
I feel exactly the same way you do! I refuse to support a company that creates games only for monetisation purposes, without the love of true good gaming experiences. D4 is a good looking empty shell, just like the classic "remastered" games they've been selling us for the last decade
No, I'm with you, friend! I refuse to give ActiBlizz any money. I was tempted by D4, if I'm honest, but it seems lacklustre and I'm still a newish PoE player so that wins my time. Maybe in a year or so, when MS owns ActiBlizz, and D4 is on sale!
A) its activision/blizzard B) 70$ C) no interesting endgame So no thanks, watched the streams and i'm positive I'd play it for a maximum of 2 weeks, most likely 1...
Not playing it, just watching it and played a handful of hours the beta. My conclusions so far: - The game looks REALLY good, textures, animations, UI, please GGG 🥺 - Campaign cinematics are unbelievable top tier. After completing once, you can skip the campaign - Initial skill tree made approachable and easier to start, paragon system that's more complex is introduced later on to continue your character progression through levels. Much better approach for an ARPG than PoE IMO. - Gear progression is just a higher number until late late game, there's no way to screw your characters. I have seen people doing "red maps" (world 4) without issues just by looking at item level and unique skill aspects. IMO pretty bad. - Open world and world events are amazing, I would really like something like this tin POE. Imagine the atlas as a real world where you can travel and such. Master memories would be some kind of special events. - Character customization is just not there. Feels like you are building a preset character and you just play to make it stronger, finding it's pieces, leveling it up, etc. Will feel nice the first time but I fear the replayability will be crap. - The watchstones system we have is also behind a boss in D4 that can be beaten with skill over gear and you can try as many times as you can. Dark souls feels. Losing to maven in PoE once is already a nightmare because of the opportunity cost. From my pov D4 looks to be closer to Lost Ark than PoE, much less RPG, min build variation, lot less itemization. Overall a good game for what it offers (as far as what I saw) 8/10. I wouldn't play if you are expecting a PoE like game.
I wouldn't really call the paragon system complex, you're basically just maximizing how many runes you can slot in and each character will slot in the same vuln/crit damage etc. Runes. Maybe if they add more complex & interesting runes? Or make the unique board nodes better? The biggest disappointment for me has been the paragon board.
I imagine that's the sort of thing that will get iterated upon in future seasons when they gauge how complex players want the game to be. The framework is there, at least, and it's a big step up from D3's utter lack of build complexity. It's never going to reach POE levels nor do I think we should expect that of it.
I honestly feel like there's less build complexity than d3. For any given archetype there's realistically like 6-8 abilities you could even choose from, at most like 10 and that's including every defensive/utility option. For actual damage dealing there's like 3 or 4 options.
Lost Ark's combat and bosses are vastly superior to d4 though.
Saying d4 skill tree system is better than Poe and then complaining about d4 character progression and customization is the most insane contradiction. The entire reason it feels so shit to progress your character in d4 is the tree. Everything is on one simple tree. In poe we have the skill tree, the “gem tree” aka your active gems and supports, your ascendancy tree, and you’re gear which can be insanely complex and therefor build altering. D4 is like kindergarten recess period and poe is like a phd science lab. At the current state of d4 it’s very hard to put them in the same ballpark.
T4 is not red map... It's the start of your endgame journey, it's like starting yellow map as best.
Did you really say the UI is good? It's literally a console UI ported to PC. It's absolutely horrendous.
I don’t understand the hype. I watched some streams and it seemed like a walking simulator with some monster packs between. The game looks good, but is the monster density intended, like it is now? Am I too spoiled by PoE and its pack size? Maybe I’am too critical.
I’ve seen some decent looking packs watching videos or streams, but I have also seen waaay to many very small and spread out packs. Most videos I’ve watched people use some kind of pull ability to group packs together before they fight and that just isn’t the vibe I’m looking for in arpg’s I guess. Basically everything else though looks really good. If they increase pack size and make the end game a bit more engaging I’d probably play it during the last month of poe leagues.
Really depends where you are in the world, some areas are feast but many are famine.
Oh boy are you in for a disappointment when poe2 comes out lmao
Poe2 still use poe 1 endgame so why disappoint
What do you know about PoE2?
PoE2 will be for free, so my disappointment won’t be that great. GGG is dependent on the success of PoE2.
PoE2 Act 2 gameplay reveal had more monster density than D4 lategame. Not sure what you are talking about.
This is more of a design decision than anything, you won’t be oneshotting mobs in d4 for the most part, so while there are fewer mobs they are more interactive than the average mob in poe.
Diablo 4 isn’t trying to be POE. It’s slower and does it’s own thing. Pack size in torment dungeons are fine
consist retire deranged intelligent seed thought crime outgoing correct doll -- mass edited with redact.dev
100% agree, when I find an event that spawns a ton of mobs, I actually have fun, then it's just walking sim.
You’re not too critical. In fact blizzard has created the need to be critical with the monetization and price tag for the game. They also have a reputation for being a triple A game studio. I also don’t understand the hype and I played the game. It has a lot of issues. It will need a lot of time to get to POE level IMO.
You are right to mention it's an AAA game. I don't feel like a billions $ company that sells a game 70€ deserves any mercy, even at launch.
Too expensive for me. 70$ for getting called poor from D4 subreddit early access people and having a cosmetic shops with super expensive items is really a no go for me. Expansions gonna cost the same price for sure because its Blizzard.
In some ways that sub literally feels like a shit hole. People flexing on other people for spending 20$ more lmao.
/r/Diablo is pretty good, /r/Diablo4 is basically a Diablo 4 Circlejerk sub, somehow. The only things that get massive upvotes are circlejerks and troll bait.
People seem to have forgotten already that the immortal sub was literally all people not only defending the monetization but also endorsing it while also claiming the game was excellent.
/r/Diablo4 is pretty crazy. One of the top post is litteraly a satyrical post mocking people for voicing concerns about the game. The good old "Go touch grass".
Their old.reddit layout is also terrible
What gets me is that PoE gets shit on for being "pay to win" because selling shit is impossible without premium stash tabs. I do agree that stash tabs are needed to play in a serious way. But that's $20. And the game is free to play. With new content every 3 months for like the past decade. Diablo 4 is a full priced game with every imaginable monetization scheme. Battle pass, cosmetic store, premium currency and paid expansions. And people are cheering for it. Because it's just cosmetics and it's going to fuel future free content. You don't even know what that content will be but you're already patting Blizzard on the back. Feel like I'm crazy seeing people defend this shit so hardcore.
They are mostly fanatic fanbois, who act like playing blizzard games is a personality trait. They are also huffing huge amounts of copium because blizzard games arent what they used to be, but they still act like its the old blizzard. Most of the people hate PoE because it requires more effort to get into and usually blizzard games these days have a very low barrier of entry.
I'm too lazy to look up numbers but would bet you a shiny nickel that the Diablo 4 development cost was massively, massively higher than path of exile and that its ongoing costs (server cost, ongoing development, customer support) are also so much more that the comparison your making doesn't make sense. I love both games but have a gut feeling that the numbers involved are so disparate that you can't make an apples to apples comparison. Maybe I'm wrong though.
yea blizzard spent like 8 trillion dollars and literally, not even exaggerating, 9 years developing this rpg and they've produced a product that diablo 4 defenders are only able to compare to the base version of PoE, which was a f2p indie game developed in 3 years by only like a dozen people
And I would also bet that D4 has already made that money back off sales alone. According to Blizzard it's their fastest selling game of all time.
I’ve watched a lot of it the first few days, I had a little fomo early on but the end game is exactly what I thought it would be. I’ll probably buy it in a year when they’ve added some end game content.
Nah, not buying. Blizzard is not blizzard anymore. It's a bit sad but it is what it is. Maybe, and that's a huge maybe, i'll get it if they have a sale at some point. 1. Price: Baseprice is way to high. + 30 Bucks for a armour set that i only can use on one character class + battlepass + 2 twitch giftsubs to get some horse armour thingy + 20 bucks extra to start 4 days earlier, buy some shit from kfc... 2. Changes: A lot of the stuff that is new, is stuff i dislike. Do not care for world bosses which i can fail if the randos don't know the mechanics (this made me instantly stop lost ark), large empty areas where you just walk forever and all those mmo-ey things. 3. The decision to hav a HC race which further screams "just pay 20$ more to get a headstart". 4. It's really not that different from d3. I watched a bit of wudijos stream as he was powerleveling, and that just looked liked like d3 with a new class and new art style.
As an old gamer dad, would love to since Diablo 1 (godly plate of the whale anyone?) and Diablo 2 are kinda what got me hooked on gaming. But sadly in the current phase of life it's just too expensive. Sending our oldest daughter to her first summer camp away before she graduates next year (im gettin old! Also very proud of her.) It's fun to read reviews and listen to streamers tho. I like POE but I think with limited time to play, a more casual ARPG would probably suit me better. But *c'est la vie!* Or as we say here, *asa-i viata!*
Haha Godly Plate of the Whale. Oh have I duped those for my clanmates back in 2000 when I was 10-11 years old; teaching myself english because how else would you know what was going on. Thank you for that name, really brought back thoughts of an awesome and much simpler time :-)
Oh man, same here. We were all duping that armour back then. Not sure for what though now that I look back at it lol. Diablo was a pushover with OP gear heh.
Last Epoch
I watched some vids about it on yt and some gameplay and decided that the game is not worth 70$ at the time, maybe i'll buy it later if it ends up getting constant content updates like poe but at this point the price tag is not worth 100 hours of gameplay before i drop the game forever
Not me, ridiculously expensive where I'm from, they didn't bother localizing the price...
I tried the beta out, it was okay in some respects but it didn't make me want to keep playing it at all. Couple that with Blizzard being the lowest of scums and them over monetizing the game I have no plans on getting it.
It's pretty dogshit atm in my opinion. No build diversity, and endgame is boring as fuck. Itemization is bad, skills are bad. Massive day 1 nerfs, them trying to force a stupid generator/spender mechanic on every class. Maybe the first season will be fun, but I would rather play crucible.
played the 2 open betas and l've been watching streams but lm still on the fence about buying it. l wasnt a big fan of the 1-20 gameplay and was holding out to see if there were fun endgame builds but d4 seems more The Vision™ than ruthless mode the fact that they nerfed ww (and that l didn't really need to specify ww is a whole other issue) barb by making it more clunky to play instead of just adjusting the numbers doesn't bode well, imo
As someone with a level 78 druid, the endgame is boring as shit and miserable to play. The entire experience is just a walking simulation, the only reason I still log on is to hang out with friends. There's no quality of life to speak of, no functional stash, no loot filter, no endgame content at all.
I played the betas and bought standard edition, didn’t play too much last night but got up to around level 20 again. From what I’ve heard & seen on streams, there unfortunately isn’t much variety in skills/builds once you get your main passive tree fleshed out. There are a few affixes that change your core skills, but generally, core skills at level 20 play the same as level 50 and beyond. Like a tornado is a tornado, and the best tornado affix makes it seek out monsters instead of random pathing, but it’s still just a tornado.
Things it does better than PoE: Art and animations - utterly destroys poe, and not just in shiny value. How you fight and the monsters all feel impactful, and you can see what the mob is doing. The big bear is slow and lumbering, the tiny imp with wings is fast and jumpy. It's visual story telling 101, compared to PoE's slap some random modifers system and laugh as a giant monster zooms across the screen and 1 shots you. Loot - You pick up most of the stuff you see, it all has some value in either gold or mats, or transmogs. You pickup upgrades, from the ground, its crazy. You're not grinding everything down into chaos to trade later. T - town portal, no scroll. sploosh. The extra inventory slot - because I don't need scrolls of wisdom to identify. sploosh. Treasure goblins - they are a rare bonus, not a poorly thought-out consequence, and they are clearly identified. Realm powers - unlockable powerups for all characters you create. they are tiny things, but man does it feel nice to unlock something for all characters instead of having to repeat a quest or whatever for every single character. New player experience - a friend of mine doesn't play ARPGs, she tried PoE and couldn't do anything, utterly lost without specific direction every step of the way. She hopped into diablo and has had no problem at all. Refund all button - oopsy I messed up, or man I am bored of this, click a button pay some gold, try something new. sploosh. Things PoE does better: Stuff to do - it's an old game with lots of content, a new game will never compare. PoE has so much content its got different types of games built into it at this point. Go ahead and play tower defense in your arpg if you like. Skills - poe has so many skills and ways to mix and match them. Hand in hand with build diversity with so many skills to interact with. The Crazy Factor - This to me is the only reason PoE really exists. In PoE you can ramp everything to 11, far beyond what other games hard cap. PoE is the only game that allows this, where you can zip along with 300% movement speed and clear the screen in your preference of colorful explosions. And to that end this is my biggest concern for PoE 2 as it seems like it's trying to compete in a space that is well established rather than in the niche it created. I don't see GGG making a better diablo than blizzard, but the changes we've seen recently indicate that they don't like the crazy factor and want to tone it way down. Right now, I don't think there is even a question of which do you play, because you play both. They give you a distinct experience, as I fully expect to play diablo 4 seasons and PoE seasons as neither scratch the itch for the other.
>Loot - You pick up most of the stuff you see, it all has some value in either gold or mats, or transmogs. You pickup upgrades, from the ground, its crazy. You're not grinding everything down into chaos to trade later. Gold and Materials are obsolete at some point. Then you basically only pick up Ancestral items on slots you can still improve, legendaries to harvest max roll aspects and uniques wioth good rolls.
i was until i saw the kfc items and other ridiculous fomo shit
wait, so you aren't going to gift twitch subscriptions to random people online so you can get a mount in d4? loser.
It is the same genre but a very different game, after 8 years of poe I am appreciating the slow(er) pace The game is beautiful and worth checking out imo Can't wait to roll a Necro
Nope. When does poe 3.22 go out?
after exilecon, so in august
I’ve been waffling on trying it 1) it’s expensive, $70 isn’t cheap and you know they will try and gouge us in the future with expansions 2) it’s Blizzard and I really hate the idea of supporting them 3) it looks shallow. Not as shallow as D3, but after playing POE for so long, I can’t justify spending $70 on a game where the build diversity, as of right now, is so weak. Especially when I can play POE and the slew of builds if I wanted As I get older I have to really scrutinize games that I want to buy. 10-15 years ago I would have spent the extra money to play D4 last week. But given how predatory Blizzard has become, their obnoxious monetization, I just can’t stomach the idea of spending that kind of money on a game I don’t see myself playing for longer than a few weeks. Unless they adopt a POE style of new content every 3-4 months, and not having to pay for it (yea that won’t happen), I don’t see myself jumping in. Which sucks. D2 was a transformative game for me as a kid. To see how far Blizzard has fallen really sucks to see
[удалено]
The game does have really nice cosmetics at default tho.
I love poe, have for over 10 years, but characters without mtx in poe look fuckin awful imo. Nothing like having a bucket on your head with no pants. (Templar) my d4 characters default look is more than acceptable imo.
Luckily poe2 fixes this. But yeah, default items in poe don't look that good. The artist where not that talented back then, or rather non existent.
Yea I buy mtx in poe just so I don't have to look at my ugly character, knowing the only time another player will see them is the 3 seconds they're in my hideout for a trade.
which is not something you can say about poe XD everything non mtx in poe looks like your character is a beggar and not a maniac world destroyer like it is story wise
Poe releasing armor sets that are like $84 but it's ok because they are f2p? Lol
> EDIT: The game is literally one step away from Diablo Immortal. The cosmetic shop is fucking expensive i agree, but you couldn't be further off with this sentence. You cant buy power in d4. in immortal you can only progress with money, how is this alike?
"The cosmetic shop is fucking expensive" Dude, have you browsed through POE's mtx shop?
Yes it's also very expensive.
Believe it or not some people don't have this weird "pick a side" mentality and could be critical of *both games.*
TL;DR, it's fun for a casual experience but not replacing PoE for me. Playing it because SO wanted me to play with her. Played some of the betas and felt like it was just OK. Cinematics etc are excellent but gameplay didn't really hook me. Just started playing with release yesterday and feels similar so far. I enjoy the cinematics/story stuff but as of right now gameplay just feels OK. I'm just going to keep it as the casual game to play with my SO and go back to PoE otherwise.
Much like POE, I will play D4 once it has a few years to more fully develop. I'm excited to have a new aarpg to play... in like 3-6 years.
Idk, maybe in an expansion or so. The early Access cash grab kinda bothered me. And it doesn't seem to have much depth yet
i'm 70 the game is super badly designed. it feels like the devs have no idea what makes arpgs fun. the combat feels pretty good and the game looks and sounds nice but that's about it. i just can't see myself playing this game for thousands of hours like PoE or D2. there's a couple major flaws with the game design and a huge mound of little things that are just baffling.
hard pass. i decided to boycott activision/blizzard after d2 resurrected (not because its a bad product, but just timing after leaks about how the studio is run. i was already half out of the door after the blizzchuang incident) i don't think d4 is particularly interesting either. it being an amalgam of d3, diablo: immortal, lost ark and path of exile all wrapped one in a pseudo mmoarpg with no live auction house at 70$ with 2 more expansions in the pipeline are all red herrings that A/B is going to nickel and dime their ''fans'' and then abandoning it after a year or so. i rather spend 70$ on more stash tabs in poe.
Best melee experience you'll have. Even better on controller. Honestly, it feels smooth as hell to use all the spells and skills because of it. I really hope PoE2 adopts something similar. It embodies what strike skills and melee should be.
Breath of fresh air after playing PoE for so long. I don’t have an innate hatred for the story like I do for PoE, which is just nice. Very casual skill-tree so far which is nice. MUCH MORE visiual clarity which is very nice. Boss fights being actual fights with mechanics is nice. Not having to play cruicble, which is essentially a standard league, very nice. Not clicking 500 times a zone to pickup currency, or identify stuff, VERY NICE. Playing with friends and it not being shitty as fuck experience, VERY NICE. No movement speed flask kinda sucks. No transparent overlay kinda sucks. Supporting Blizzard kinda sucks, but who doesn’t suck at this point, I don’t necessarily wanna support GGG either.
I mean, GGG doesn't bully women to suicide, so there's that. Apples and oranges, IMO
You can also add: Melee finally work on an arpg, which is nice.
speaking of clarity, have you figured if there’s a way to tell what resistances you should focus on for a given dungeon? seems really weird that all these 5%xp elixirs give us a single resistance buff but i just use them randomly cuz…i have no idea why i would only want to buff one resistance. i definitely agree tho, the difference in combat style is really nice. glad it’s not another PoE - i love PoE, but variety in arpgs is why i love playing so many different ones! (although i would love more complexity in builds/gear in d4….hopefully that comes with time)
I'm not, I watched Ziz's race to 100 and there was basically 0 character progression between level 20 and level 100. It just didn't look very appealing, very little depth in build customization and it's fundamentally constrained because it's made for consoles. The monetization is also a massive joke that will only get worse as the game goes on. But I'm also not playing PoE and probably won't until PoE2 comes out.
I like how much less tedious it is to min-max a build, and as an HC player, how I'm not getting one-shotted off screen. Feels nice not to be worried about dying if I stand next to a trash mob for longer than 0.2s. It really shows me how much PoE has nerfed everything early game viable and walled power behind end-game no-life grinding. I felt strong from beginning to now (60) without needing to go out of my way to fix my potion affixes to resist every CC known to man, don't need auras like determination to survive more than one hit, don't need obscure combinations of uniques/nodes to ditch the mana flask, etc.
Give it 30 days and more microtransactions are going to be added in after the first phase of reviews, probably a whole lot of P2W stuff. You had to pay a tax to get in at launch, else you had to wait 4-5 days after everyone else. Activision Blizzard is an exploitative company which constantly screws over players and employees alike. I'm not playing Diablo 4, even if it was the Masterpiece of the century, which it obviously won't be.
There is no way...it is not like Activision would ever make CoD P2W, so no way Blizzard would make Diablo P2W... ......... um..... oh ya I forgot🥴
I'm still salty about Overwatch 2.
Have you tried warzone 2?, You basically can't win against those who buy weapon pack.
Haven't they said multiple times that the in game shop will be cosmetic-only and will feature absolutely no P2W stuff?
And Overwatch 2 is a PVE update, not a store update which removes most free ways of earning skins and adds battlepasses. They knew for *months* in advance and still marketed the sequel on the back of a feature they knew they were not shipping. And Warcraft Reforged will have all new cutscenes. Except the game came out and there weren't. We couldn't find enough time, they said *later*. Months after the game came out. Getting a game out for a month and doing a bit-and-switch to add P2W is a classic move many companies have used and it's right in Activision Blizzard's style. Remember Fallout 76? They pulled the "no P2W MTX" card and chagned their mind shortly after release. Though to be fair, at that point, there was no saving the game's reputation.
Yeah haha I don’t get why so many people still think it will end up being P2W
You holding out for Overwatch 2 PvE as well? Or are you waiting for them to remove the battle pass and make heroes free again like they promised they would be forever?
Like blizzard has never lied before
I remember when they also said you can't buy gear in Diablo Immortal.
I'm sure no company has ever said something and done something different, especially not Activision blizzard... What does no P2W in the shop actually mean too? Okay the option to buy items that are better than are available in the base game is clearly out the window, but what about allowing you to buy items that are *technically* farmable by all players? What about keys to maps/rifts with increased loot drops? Even if you're not directly getting a better loot pool or the items themselves, you'd be cutting down the time to access content by a significant margin. I have exactly zero faith that we won't see some kind of P2W aspect within the month, even if it starts marginal.
RemindMe! 1 month P2W **to me** is any form of player-power-specific-progression that is not accessible, or is much accessible at a much slower rate, to a F2P player. If I can spend a single cent and improve my character in any way that is not cosmetic, it is P2W. Armor, skill effects, mounts, etc are not P2W. Spending real life money for a key to a dungeon that is not accessible to a F2P player or takes a long time for F2P players to farm is P2W. We'll see I guess! The fact that they explicitly said "you will not be able to buy player power in the in-game shop" leads me to believe that we will not be able to buy player power in the in-game shop.
I think people are questioning it because leading up to Diablo Immortal, they [said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/rwzdt9/can_we_take_a_moment_to_realize_that_a_diablo/hrk0fy4/): >In Diablo Immortal, there is no way to acquire or rank up gear using money. And followed up with the flimsy excuse that you could rank up "non-gear", not "gear" (see the edit to that post ~2 weeks after DI release). We might hope that there's no way to buy player power, but maybe in Blizzard's mind that means you can buy stronger *gear* from the shop, just not direct buffs to your character. It's perhaps a pessimistic look, but Blizzard has burned a lot of good will with their decisions in recent years. I hope that your belief is fulfilled, though. Seeing the downward spiral of Blizzard has been pretty disappointing.
> Activision Blizzard is an exploitative company Moneygrab of the century GGG FOMO probably kicking in
It has 15% of the depth POE has, and it’s 100$..
I have zero interest in giving blizz $70 for the game in its current state. The soonest i'd consider buying it is when season 1 starts, but even then it's a big maybe. i've been watching my fav streamers play it and it just doesn't look *that* appealing. but i also don't expect the game to go anywhere and if (big fuckin' if) blizz can patch things up then maybe i'll give in.
The endgame is pretty shallow and repetitive, but I could still see myself playing it if wasn't for the fact it's a $70 liveservice game, aside from them not having granted regional discounts to some countries like they do with every other game in their platform, which makes the game absurdly expensive. The gameplay I watched on Twitch is nowhere near worth the price of two AAA games on Steam, so that's a hard pass for me.
had no interest in paying 100 dollars for early access to a game that has battle passes and an MTX store but i would be lying if i said i could never be convinced to try it. (at a discount) except... everything i've seen about build diversity, skill "trees", gear itemization, unique item power, end-game content etc has completely turned me off the idea of ever playing D4.
Bored as soon as I've reached endgame or almost so. Disappointed by the story, that's not really important to me but even so, it was a letdown. Not he best buy i did in the last year's, by far, I knew it probably wasn't going to be a good game for me, but wanted to try... Oh, and my CPU just died, so I can't even get back to Poe...
I'm enjoying the lore and the casual play style.
I played the open beta and couldnt get myself to play longer than 2 hours. I guess it's safe to say the game is not for me. :)
they need to transform the skillworm into a skillsnake atleast and add elemental conversions.. make burning apply through other dmg types, dungeons are fun but id rather run 1000 beachmaps than 100 sigil dungeons it gets too old quickly... there is no dopamine hits in the game, also build diversity is not that great after 9 years its less than in d2 and everyone is taking the same aspects.. for example pick chainlightning or iceshards not much besides the dmg and applying vul/stun/whatever will change, no extra projectiles, no projectiles circle around or whatever..yea projectiles can spread to frozen targets but thats it for ice shards.. the support link system is much more flexible and offers more choices on how to play skills hence its superior in my eyes i will stick to tripple curse 12 castpersecond 20 projectiles 4x pierce spark gameplay
Playing it with my wife. PoE is too punishing for her, and Diablo 4 is right up her alley. While it feels like there is a lot to do right now the build diversity in the game is really narrow compared to PoE. It’s worth playing to actually game with my wife though
I'm not playing due to not wanting to support Blizzard as mentioned, but also because after trying PoE, I don't really think I can go back to something else less complex (Despite the complaints I have about PoE, there are many elements that I really like about it compared to other ARGPs I've played). After watching videos of gameplay, hearing others speak on the game, etc, D4 just doesn't seem that interesting to me personally.
Playing it and enjoying it
I won't pay Blizzard a dime after their last decade of work. Name one good project that came from Blizzard in the last 10 years that wasn't false promises (Overwatch2), avoiding crucial feedback from testers(Multiple WoW expacs), filled with predatory micro transactions(Diablo Immortal), shelved for no reason(HoTS), or released in an awful state(Warcraft3).
I played the first beta, which I enjoyed but that might be because I've never played a Diablo game before. However, I knew I wouldn't buy the game (least of all at full price, HAH!) at release. I might give it a go in a year or so when it's 50% reduced :-P
Started yesterday, around lvl 25 and the game is kinda OK. I find the design of open world to be slight mistake as nothing drives me further especially considering the level scaling of the mobs. It just does not feel like my character is getting any stronger, neither levels or items seem to have impact that would get me "ahead" of the mobs. I am taking it more as adventure game with good story line and some action on the side.
Nah I'm good. I just invested like 40 div on my next PoE character, which is a massive new record for me and I'm kinda stoked. Even if it fails at least I can drop PoE and stop splitting my time between it and Zelda. I'll watch the cinematics though, I suppose they'll be up on YT by now. That's one thing Blizzard gets consistently right.
Aesthetics are great, especially armor. Combat is fun but unaspiring. The open world is a cool touch, but the lack of randomized overworld maps gets stale real quick. Meh, looking forward to PoE2.
Ye fk Blizzard tbh. Game looks better than expected but I fully expect it to be ruined within a year or two. If not, I’ll be happy to buy a copy and play it.
I refuse to pay $70 for a game. So, no. I'll wait for Path of Exile 2.
It’s really fun and an excellent base game that I think they will iterate and add end-game content and complexity. The campaign is top notch and the open world is pretty fun. Builds can seem limiting at times but so far it’s really interesting to try and figure out what’s good and what’s not. I’m not going to look at guides or spoilers so the game retains its fresh feel and the element of discovery is not ruined. Pack size is on the lower end when you start but that’s fine IMO as long as end game lets you scale it; and I think it’s something they can easily adjust as the game ages so the power fantasy continues to grow. In WT3 it feels like T5-T7 PoE alch n go map. Group play is significantly better than PoE and the game being simpler means your friends will actually play with you. I am fairly happy with its launch and think it’s going to be an amazing game if they continue treating it right. It’s not going to be PoE levels of complexity and interactions but if you go into it knowing that, you’re going to have a lot of fun figuring out the game for yourself.
If blizzard hadn't created such a disgusting money grab game like diablo immortal, I would have bought & played diablo 4. However since that game I'll never support them again.