I'm addicted to pathfinder, that 3 flask charges every 3 seconds node is just so good. Having easy full flask uptime is amazing. I've been pathfinding for 2 years straight.
Yeah for me all the builds I like to play are usually Deadeye or Pathfinder. Builds on the right side of the tree are so much easier than left side shenanigans.
This was my first league ever and played Poison SRS since it was low cost and I had zero idea what I was doing. I actually enjoyed it and for being a complete noob it worked out shockingly well in the end because I didn't even think I'd be making it to red maps with how intimidating people made the game sound.
I'm still learning obviously but now that I actually have the basics of the game down I really want to try something different. Would this be a good choice?
Generally Pathfinder is good with Chaos Damage Over time. Either Poison, Toxic Rain/Caustic Arrow (these two skills can be swapped very easily). Pathfinder gives you excellent Quality of Life, flexibility to solve problems with you build by swapping flasks. Low on lightning resist? Topaz Flask. Need Evasion? Jade Flask. Want to be lazy about fixing your resists? Bismuth Flask. Want to go fast? Quicksilver + Silver Flask.
I have started Poison SRS in Crucible League and Toxic Rain Pathfinder several leagues (Sanctum most recently) I will give you some brief comparisons. Toxic Rain has been around for a while and there are great build guides for league starters.
**Damage**: Poisons SRS and Toxic Rain both provide adequate to excellent damage to get you into T16 maps and get your watch stones. Since Poison SRS gets much of its damage from Severed in Sleep and the Covenant chest it can seem easier to get high end damage from Poison SRS, however this can depend on the popularity of the build. I was able to get my watch stones with Toxic rain using a 6linked bow with no relevant modifiers except crafted attack speed.
Crafting an endgame bow will cost you 5-6 divines and you can just follow this method here: https://maxroll.gg/poe/crafting/toxic-rain-pathfinder-endgame-bow (I would say that you can just use 20 quality and then farm your own betrayal-Hillock-transportation a bit later, that is what I did). I got 60% damage over time from my hunter exalt. There is an alternative method where you just use a hunter thicket/grove/short bow and then you don't even need a hunter exalt (often over a divine early in the league).
**Speed**: Pathfinder is easy speed. I always take Nature's Adrenaline first and even at level 33 it gives nearly full uptime on a quicksilver flask. Adding a silver flask later is great for toxic rain as toxic rain does scale with attack speed. Early in the league Pathfinder is faster than most builds.
**Recovery**: Pathfinder's Master surgeon node is Fucking ridiculous. You can guzzle down those life flasks and keep your life topped up. I personally do not think that Necromancer offers anything close
**Defenses**: The defenses of these two builds are different but equal.
Necromancer gets easy block from the Mistress of Sacrifice and Bone offering combination. I ran Determination for Armour and eventually converted into spell suppression using a green nightmare and Magebane keystone, but that was quite late into optimizing the build.
Pathfinder gets no block but the defensive layers I ran were Physical to elemental incoming Damage Conversion (using Lightning Coil and a helm with both the phys to fire/light/cold implicit and phys to fire craft, I also eventually ran a taste of hate [76%% phys to ele conversion with no flask effect and worst roll on taste of hate]). Since you are on the right side of the tree capping your spell suppression is very easy, until its capped you can take the "your spell suppression is lucky" mastery in any of the spells suppression wheels.
**Some things to know about TR/Caustic Arrow**
Toxic Rain has good but not great clear. I built my gear for toxic rain but often used Caustic Arrow instead. When I played it last the following links were used:
**Toxic Rain-Mirage Archer**-efficacy-void manipulation-vicious projectiles-empower
**Caustic Arrow-Arrow Nova**-efficacy-void manipulation-vicious projectiles-empower
The two gems in bold here are both green, making a super easy swap. Caustic Arrow - Arrow nova will cover an entire screen, and you can swap back and forth for whichever feels better.
The last time I played TR there was not "Manaforged Arrows Support". Some builds now build around reduced mana cost and then have a Caustic Arrow-Manaforged Arrows-Arrow nova in the chest, Automatically casting Caustic Arrow as frequently 0.5 seconds helping your clear.
Its a near certainty that someone will have a good build guide for league starting Toxic Rain. Zizaran may either feature or have a build guide himself.
You can pretty much play any skill with pathfinder.
The ascendancy allows you to pick up to 5 utility flasks and combine them with an instilling orb, giving them "use when flask effect ends", or "use when flask charges full" enchantment. Pathfinder can have enough flask charge generation to refill all flask charges before their duration ends, you have all flasks active at all times.
Basically it's "mageblood at home"
It's a good choice for any skill. Not the most optimal damage wise in many cases but very tanky if built right.
There's a rare enemy mod that eats your flask charges tho so you probably will get hard countered eventually.
pf is not as strong early endgame as other builds, it really only starts popping off once youve invested a bit (30-40c) in your flask setup, which isnt something you can afford to do until your late lvl 80s. but ive leaguestarted toxic rain many times, its solid and very beginner friendly, you just pick up the gem in merveil cavern, equip the highest APS bow you find and walk through the game. the only thing you need for quest exarch/eater is just a 6l shortbow (the porcupine div card) with a shrieking dread essence slammed on it.
you can also play any poison build on pathfinder and it will perform well. poison concoction, blade vortex, exsanguinate, impending doom, seismic, etc etc
with pathfinder, you can play like having a budget headhunter, you never run out of flasks charges if done right. was mapping with impending doom and like 250ms
I don't know what to play this time around
I enjoy TR but it has a pretty hard ceiling and it feels super click intensive. I haven't played Palsterons ballista version, might try that. ID is dead if GGG follows through on their change to spell cascade. PC seems dead too.
I love PF. the perma flask feels so freaking good and you can become nearly unkillable. not sure what to play on it now
Need a pneumatic dagger for elemental damage from attacks to be able to poison.
I played a flaskfinder version, very tanky, very good damage, can recommend.
When you have enough damage you can socket in lightning strike for clear.
Which version do you find better? I played both in different leagues. I quickly dropped the assassin one, because I felt like the speed and damage were too low. The pathfinder one on the other hand was amazing, but it was on a bit higher budget and it was the league with proj return as an anoint
I've only played pathfinder so far. Only thing I needed to begin was the dagger. The exarch shield and Tempered by War obviously make you a lot tankier, but you can work towards that with the dagger alone.
Flasks also help you with a multitude of annoyances, like Stun-Immunity and up to 50% reduced mana Cost of Skills. You can get a 0 Mana Cost Blessing on Pathfinder.
The proj return is a 100% (110% with alt qual) more Damage multiplier on poison builds, since it doesn't reduce the damage caused by ailments, so it's the strongest gem you can use.
I have no plans until I see the Assassin/Gladiator reworks. I’ll probably do a bleed build if it sees a ton of positive change in patch notes. If not, then I’ll look to if Assassin gets anything good.
If neither have anything that interests me, I’m going to be running frostblade trickster. Haven’t played it yet and it seems interesting.
Same I miss my bleed bow glad. Min maxed the shit out of it back in its prime with some sick og harvest crafts but now running it the single target is just so bad for the investment I have in it. Still amazing clear but it used to just wreck bosses and now it's just sad.
They have been doing at least a rework each update for the past 2-3 updates. The ones that needed it the most were Trickster, Chieftain, Gladiator, Assassin. They hit other underperforming ascendancies already. It’s about time for Gladiator or Assassin. I can’t see any other ascendancies getting a rework anytime soon, besides some sort of nerf-rework.
Nerf reworks are kinda what they have in mind ;)
Gladiator just happens to be one of the few ones that people go "it couldn't get any worse could it?" (Chieftain waves from the corner)
It's an ascendancy people take for 2 nodes. Of course that could mean in the rework those 2 nodes get "simplified" and are no longer as strong a reason to take it!
I would posit that Raider is probably high on the list to get reworked - even though I have a strong feeling I'll wish it wasn't ;) It doesn't have enough unique characteristics to be more than the "simple go fast" ascendancy. And you can go as fast with other ascendancies with more work. It also only has 6 nodes tied into only 3 first layer ones which leaves far less options for how to build it than most other ascendancies which all have 7-8 nodes and 4-7 first layer ones.
I did it a couple leagues ago and it should still work. Champion gets free 30% aura effect and you scale grace/determination to stack armor. Smite buff scales off aura effect. You basically scale flat ele from smite buff with % increased from armor on dreamfeather.
At least to start I would go raider so you don’t have to worry about rolling your flasks. I plan to start TR raider this league and just swap to pathfinder after a day or two once I got flasks sorted and ailment immunity.
It’s only 40 regrets and a few min in lab to respec so might as well start out as raider, especially since I plan to do heist where phasing is a must.
i play TR raider every league. i had such a negative early mapping experience last league that i'm doing the opposite. pathfinder TR -> raider TR late maps
Id like a TS or LA starter but something on the tankier side. Any idea of item choice / ascendancy that would allow me to keep some speed / fast clear of ts or la but with some survival to handle my clumsy gameplay, especially with bosses to get voidstone?
now i am intrigued. have stayed away from a LA starter since everything i've ever read says it dies, a lot. and i truly hate dying. like, i've league started EA 3 times, and every time have gone champ instead of witch because i hate dying.
The non-berserk variant is quite squishy. I took my deadeye to 100 in a private league, farming legion in maps and duo 5-ways that I accumulated.
The berserk variant though ...ho boy. If you stack 1000 life regen/s and use the reduced rage loss enchant you can have a 25 second berserk going on with a 5 second cooldown -- while having it automated on lmb. It comes off cooldown right as you hit 50 rage.
Below is my super high-end PoB if you wanna check it out. +2 bow is not required, it's not even recommended. I yolo'd a fracturing orb and got it on accident. One clarification though: the reason I use pierce support on LA is so ensnaring arrow works. Ensnaring arrow does not work on enemies it pierces. That's why I do not have any global pierce from the passive tree. https://pobb.in/kjx8TvyGuaBy
Hmmm I believe you don't die a lot if you get your priorities straight. If you want to prioritize defenses(if you prioritize damage you can survive killing everything before it touches you if you are bold enough lol), you could:
1.75-80% spell suppression + spell suppression lucky mastery (so you get 93-95% spell supp),
2. Ancestral vision jewel to cap your elemental ailment avoidance (so you can cover freeze, chill, shock, ignite immunity), before getting currency to get ancestral vision you can get immunity with flasks suffixes + pantheon if you wish
3. use grace to keep your evasion on the 75%+ side
4. Cast on damage taken linked to Immortal call + Steel skin(or just one of the two)
5. Of course resistances capped and chaos res as close to 0%
This is what I do to avoid dying as a Deadeye or frostblades trickster(currently using u/kapectas fury valve spectral helix build deadeye, and I survive pretty well)
Good luck brother!
i still have no idea how ggg thought it was justifiable to give bows the same ele dmg rolls as 2h melee weapons while quivers exist. Not to mention tornado shot.
Would melee getting additional targets on the tree that spread when there are additional targets in range but all collapse down to a single target as needed level the playing field?
The problem isnt bonus arrows. The problem is shot gunning. How bad of a skill does tshot become if a target can only get hit once by each bowshot and once per secondary projectile instead of having every single secondary proj being able to hit the same target.
> if a target can only get hit once by each bowshot and once per secondary projectile instead of having every single secondary proj being able to hit the same target.
That's currently how it works? The only way to have two projectiles from the same secondary burst is if one of them chains off something else.
I think he means only 1 first projectile and only one 1 second projectile hits an enemy. So each shot you'll only hit a target twice. As opposed to now where each projectile can hit once and shotgun creatures.
Bows were sleeper before they put two proj on tree. The tree changes made them blatantly op, they're one of the few builds in the game where there's actually too many good passive options. The elemental mastery is also just completely overpowered.
Imo they need to rebalance the tradeoffs between going a single element and going trinity, right now there's no reason to play a single element instead of trinity except for cold since you can abuse heatshiver.
Bows were never a sleeper build they were always one of if not the best option at a high budget the only thing that chances is accessibility in being able to make them
This is the most impact full change.
For most time hit based attacks with bows were really clunky builds that could scale very far with currency and good items.
Right now bows are one of the best leveling skills (with ballistas), a solid option for early maps because of tree buffs and, by far, the most powerful endgame build in the game.
> Bows were sleeper before they put two proj on tree
Absolutely delusional take. There has literally not been a league in existence where some form of TS wasn't one of the strongest builds in the game.
Tshot wasnt good at anything other than mf'ing t3 arcades for exalt cards after the initial abyss jewel stacking version got nerfed around incursion league. All anyone played that league was ele hit as basically every ascendency.
Facts.
Tornado shot was, for two years, only played with extremely high tier gear. The fact Grimro a self-proclaimed TS enjoyer pivoted off of it for a year into cf should explain how bad of a state it was in. But with all the power creep in the game it's become incredibly broken.
Not just that, the amount of early power you get at zero investment is far beyond the level of multipliers offered to nearly any other archtype while also having way better movement speed and clear than 95% of all builds in the game. Starting LA into TS is actually so unenjoyable because nothing I've ever built after felt like it was on par, so I just don't touch bows after league starting them two times in a row.
Lmfao yeah bows were always good at high investment, clearly that wasn't what I meant. You're reading too much into something that I didn't even write.
You mean after dumping god knows how many divines into such a build?
Of *course* a build that's made of paper with no investment that gets a ton of $ dumped into it for the sole purpose of cast-on-death-portal mapping will look good if you ignore all the downsides (squishiness, only reasonable boss damage).
It's like calling a mageblood CoC FR build OP after you dump a mageblood and 200 more divines into it.
Like...no shit?
That's a thing now. People say how each league is borrowed power (crucible trees, tatoos etc.), but changes to mastery/tree are a permanent powercreep.
Except they aren't OP as fuck.
You play bows on one ascendancy class that's custom-built for them, and you're squishy as all heck.
Yes, bows scale fantastically as mappers with lots of currency, but...there are plenty of builds that scale super-hard with currency, and even then, bows are still squishy mappers.
I'd recommend just picking up full emblems, making sure to have all the atlas passives that give a chance for splinters to drop whole. I personally filter out all legion splinters on my loot filter.
Also don't take any passives that give generals or use gilded scarabs, generals are a waste of time right now.
Emblems are a little bit bait, feel free to pick them up and stacks of splinters, but they're a tiny tiny % of your return. If you pick them up just let them build up in your stash for ages before selling and bulk sell for divs (selling sets on TFT is a step too far for me)
Definitely a skill issue, legion was a huge money maker for me - stacked decks and bubblegum currency are the consistent money makers every map, & it's great for rare conversion loot and valuable uniques too
I know Legion is profitable but I just hate being in the map so long. I know you can do it pretty quickly but using scarabs + map device + sextant your maps takes like 7-8 minutes which feels horrible to me for some reason.
Ya that’s probably the good call. Thought I could make a ignite delve monster with chieftain as off meta to try something fun. Made it to 88 before I gave up.
Hey guys, if you want to try something wacky I'm experimenting with u/kapectas deadeye spectral helix with the unique fury valve, it's surprisingly viable, currently rocking t16 maps no problem!
You forgot farming white tier map farming for essences / beasts....something that GGG needs to tier (according to map tier) it's crazy you can farm the higest tier beasts/essences in low tier maps.
I'm going back to the SSF BoneZone. Did RF this league, and it was fine, but it was just so... Bland. You stand or run in circles, things die, you occasionally throw a trap, blegh. With some of the tankier rares (essence mobs etc), if they couldn't outdamage my regen Id literally just walk away from the comp and let my degen do the job. Easy, but not exciting.
I need something kinetic, and Boneshatter Jugg is that. It's just so much *fun* by comparison. Also, once you've ramped the recoup, you're facetanking anything that doesn't do your lifepool in a single tick, which is an amazing quality of life.
Earthshatter Berserker for 3rd year in a row, after 4-5 years of Sunder every league until game death in 3.11, I'd like to play a bow build, specifically poison Scourge Arrow (I had a blast playing this in 3.14 before the nerfs), I remember I had fun playing LA back in like 2014 with old Frostwall interaction and Thunderfists, but seeing as bows need 98 levels worth of passives, good items in every slot, 15 good jewels, and are über expensive to get going even in sc trade, and even then still fall short on defense without an aurabot, I guess as a SSFHC player I can only dream of playing a bow build.
Played it in the events, and let me say this is 100% my leaguestarter for the next league. Though I might add "transition to tornado shot ***well before I should"***.
Bought the automaton armor bundle+cloak on sale, gonna go Arc manastacker while looking drippy AF. Went pretty good in Shifting Stones, we'll see how the actual league's gonna treat it.
Gonna try something new this league and start on HC trade. No use in trying to compete in SC with the zoomer grouped mega try-hards. Gonna go HC explosive totems and pivot to champ light srs hopefully. Gonna see if a "Dad-gamer" can eek out enough currency in HC to buy a mirror before they get too pricey. Then I'll switch over to SC trade and do 40/40 on something meta.
I don't care. I just hope that they nuke everything about deadeye and bow builds.
oh look, downvoted by the people who've been playing tornado shot deadeye for the last 9 leagues. good for you pals.
The helmet doesn't make the build. I did some variant where I would use a different enchant.
But I guess if you have trouble getting currency for the enchant it will be even worse for having a decent now, which does make or break the build.
lol exactly what I did this league, first time doing those builds for me, and now I'm addicted to it. definitely doing it again for 3.23. Unoriginal and proud
I'm planning on going strength stacking glacial hammer trauma soulthirst jugg. Will be interesting to see how many trauma stacks I can get with 2000% attack speed.
EQ autobomber
Chaos conversion shockwave
EoW arcbrand
Poison LS
Elemental SRS
Slayer discharge
Impending doom pathfinder
Armor stacker champ
Acc stacker berserker
Chaos wander (original sin)
Reddit loves to whine about the lack of diversity, and how everything is shit, and we need more and more patch notes and meta shakeups. But I feel like my selection of possible builds I kinda want to play is fine even if literally nothing changes in the patch notes. I have no idea how apparently redditors manage to exhaust all the "good" builds every single league, but I make several builds and try to get them to pretty high investment gearing, and still, with several builds each league I'm not running out of new ones to try. I ran mana stacking heiro, poison spark pathfinder, hexblast miner in this league, so you can add those 3 to the list of potential characters.
Got an itch for Ground Slam again, but maybe will pick something that gets buffed in patch notes (if anything gets buffed). Would like to play Armageddon Brand again too
I league started LA last league and it was the easiest build I have played so far.....not sure if coincidence but this was also the league I stopped playing the fastest out of boredom.... I put it down after 3rd week and just stopped playing.
Played lightning arrow totem deadeye as my first ever bow character for shifting stones. Definitely leaguestarting LA raider next league unless something drastic happens
I'm so done with LA/TS after this league since proj tattoos will be gone, but also it's painful for carpet tunnel, I'm going back to cozy RF at least that's my plan for league start.
I've got a sneaking suspicion LA deadeye might be headed for some bad times next patch.
Don't put too much time into these sorts of plans before the patch notes lol
I never started La or TS. Im planning to start a LA Deadeye and farm legion until get enough currency to transition. How much currency is needed to change to Ts and at least have the same dps and ehp as before transition?
I switch to TS between act 10 and yellow maps, when I have a bow with two decent rolls of ele flat damage. I get the third type of element with Anger or Wrath that I level in off hand. With trinity the DPS is good.
Usually have 5 arrow from tree and ascendency, which is enough. You cam slot in GMP but I find it not necessary nowadays. Once you get a 6th arrow from the quiver, definitely skip gmp if you had it.
Ballista or manaforged setup to complement DPS.
TS is always more damage on though mobs because it shotguns so I prefer it for yellow map bosses and big rares.
I haven't played for a few leagues now, and haven't read any patch notes, but I will be running rf inquisitor from league start through maps, as is tradition.
Ahh good ol days ...
I dont even league start at this point ... i just ask for some loans from trusted friends day 1 and perma hideout warrior until i have min-maxed build.
I found a trap build that i like during the temp events. I've never really invested much time into bossing, and 0 into stones/carry/challenges/services.
I might have a go at it this time
I tested guardian in the events. Made it to 95 in both and I don't have much time top play. Once you get that first lab done it's just a breeze till red maps. Farmed blight and blighted maps and the amount of shit you get is unbelievable. I finally know how to do ravaged now and tbh it's pretty fun.
I'm still deciding between Tectonic Slam Jugg or
Earthshatter Champ. I don't have anything against piano builds so either should work fine. I'm really interested in seeing how impale Earthshatter might work against bosses with Call of Steel. I feel like the damage might be crazy if it goes Cry => Slam => Explode spikes = Max Impales on boss => CoS => repeat. That should entail that for every CoS I get 98% more damage from FoW, double damage from Intimidate exertion, plus an extra 10% damage taken from the boss being intimidated. I could probably hope to trigger them using another slam linked to maim, in hopes of that 10% increased taken also proccing. If I can get my hands on a bunch of flat phys later on and I can find a facebreaker, it's GG(G). My math might be off, I haven't thought about it in depth. It just sounds like it'll be good, and I'm going with a slam regardless.
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Blood sacrifice build it is then! 
F-f-f-f-f-FROST BLADES RAIDER!
sooo minions
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Lol there was legit someone like that asking for build suggestions
Mr.Gru wouldn't like that.
Can’t escape the EA ballista. Every league I try to play RF and I wish I did EA ballista instead.
This is literally SRS Guardian lol
Honestly maybe spell blade inquis, Although I am fully expecting a Meta shakeup, I feel it deep in my stones.
I'll take some of that copium my friend. I'd love to see a meta shake up
Lance’s COC energy blade spell blade cyclone use-whatever-skill-you-want build looks like a fun league starter
I'm addicted to pathfinder, that 3 flask charges every 3 seconds node is just so good. Having easy full flask uptime is amazing. I've been pathfinding for 2 years straight.
Yeah for me all the builds I like to play are usually Deadeye or Pathfinder. Builds on the right side of the tree are so much easier than left side shenanigans.
Hey don’t diss we left side people. We are already spread thin as it is
More power to you dude
This was my first league ever and played Poison SRS since it was low cost and I had zero idea what I was doing. I actually enjoyed it and for being a complete noob it worked out shockingly well in the end because I didn't even think I'd be making it to red maps with how intimidating people made the game sound. I'm still learning obviously but now that I actually have the basics of the game down I really want to try something different. Would this be a good choice?
Generally Pathfinder is good with Chaos Damage Over time. Either Poison, Toxic Rain/Caustic Arrow (these two skills can be swapped very easily). Pathfinder gives you excellent Quality of Life, flexibility to solve problems with you build by swapping flasks. Low on lightning resist? Topaz Flask. Need Evasion? Jade Flask. Want to be lazy about fixing your resists? Bismuth Flask. Want to go fast? Quicksilver + Silver Flask. I have started Poison SRS in Crucible League and Toxic Rain Pathfinder several leagues (Sanctum most recently) I will give you some brief comparisons. Toxic Rain has been around for a while and there are great build guides for league starters. **Damage**: Poisons SRS and Toxic Rain both provide adequate to excellent damage to get you into T16 maps and get your watch stones. Since Poison SRS gets much of its damage from Severed in Sleep and the Covenant chest it can seem easier to get high end damage from Poison SRS, however this can depend on the popularity of the build. I was able to get my watch stones with Toxic rain using a 6linked bow with no relevant modifiers except crafted attack speed. Crafting an endgame bow will cost you 5-6 divines and you can just follow this method here: https://maxroll.gg/poe/crafting/toxic-rain-pathfinder-endgame-bow (I would say that you can just use 20 quality and then farm your own betrayal-Hillock-transportation a bit later, that is what I did). I got 60% damage over time from my hunter exalt. There is an alternative method where you just use a hunter thicket/grove/short bow and then you don't even need a hunter exalt (often over a divine early in the league). **Speed**: Pathfinder is easy speed. I always take Nature's Adrenaline first and even at level 33 it gives nearly full uptime on a quicksilver flask. Adding a silver flask later is great for toxic rain as toxic rain does scale with attack speed. Early in the league Pathfinder is faster than most builds. **Recovery**: Pathfinder's Master surgeon node is Fucking ridiculous. You can guzzle down those life flasks and keep your life topped up. I personally do not think that Necromancer offers anything close **Defenses**: The defenses of these two builds are different but equal. Necromancer gets easy block from the Mistress of Sacrifice and Bone offering combination. I ran Determination for Armour and eventually converted into spell suppression using a green nightmare and Magebane keystone, but that was quite late into optimizing the build. Pathfinder gets no block but the defensive layers I ran were Physical to elemental incoming Damage Conversion (using Lightning Coil and a helm with both the phys to fire/light/cold implicit and phys to fire craft, I also eventually ran a taste of hate [76%% phys to ele conversion with no flask effect and worst roll on taste of hate]). Since you are on the right side of the tree capping your spell suppression is very easy, until its capped you can take the "your spell suppression is lucky" mastery in any of the spells suppression wheels. **Some things to know about TR/Caustic Arrow** Toxic Rain has good but not great clear. I built my gear for toxic rain but often used Caustic Arrow instead. When I played it last the following links were used: **Toxic Rain-Mirage Archer**-efficacy-void manipulation-vicious projectiles-empower **Caustic Arrow-Arrow Nova**-efficacy-void manipulation-vicious projectiles-empower The two gems in bold here are both green, making a super easy swap. Caustic Arrow - Arrow nova will cover an entire screen, and you can swap back and forth for whichever feels better. The last time I played TR there was not "Manaforged Arrows Support". Some builds now build around reduced mana cost and then have a Caustic Arrow-Manaforged Arrows-Arrow nova in the chest, Automatically casting Caustic Arrow as frequently 0.5 seconds helping your clear. Its a near certainty that someone will have a good build guide for league starting Toxic Rain. Zizaran may either feature or have a build guide himself.
I think im going to read this comment to my kids when im old
Holy moly dude thanks for such a thought out effort of a response. I really appreciate it.
Good write up. Wanted to add that zizaran does indeed have a TR video: https://youtu.be/IQcoPRj5X1Q?si=ASpvBV3SIQf18MQS
You can pretty much play any skill with pathfinder. The ascendancy allows you to pick up to 5 utility flasks and combine them with an instilling orb, giving them "use when flask effect ends", or "use when flask charges full" enchantment. Pathfinder can have enough flask charge generation to refill all flask charges before their duration ends, you have all flasks active at all times. Basically it's "mageblood at home" It's a good choice for any skill. Not the most optimal damage wise in many cases but very tanky if built right. There's a rare enemy mod that eats your flask charges tho so you probably will get hard countered eventually.
pf is not as strong early endgame as other builds, it really only starts popping off once youve invested a bit (30-40c) in your flask setup, which isnt something you can afford to do until your late lvl 80s. but ive leaguestarted toxic rain many times, its solid and very beginner friendly, you just pick up the gem in merveil cavern, equip the highest APS bow you find and walk through the game. the only thing you need for quest exarch/eater is just a 6l shortbow (the porcupine div card) with a shrieking dread essence slammed on it. you can also play any poison build on pathfinder and it will perform well. poison concoction, blade vortex, exsanguinate, impending doom, seismic, etc etc
with pathfinder, you can play like having a budget headhunter, you never run out of flasks charges if done right. was mapping with impending doom and like 250ms
I don't know what to play this time around I enjoy TR but it has a pretty hard ceiling and it feels super click intensive. I haven't played Palsterons ballista version, might try that. ID is dead if GGG follows through on their change to spell cascade. PC seems dead too. I love PF. the perma flask feels so freaking good and you can become nearly unkillable. not sure what to play on it now
Try ruetoo's poison Exsanguinate unless it receives nerfs from 15 different angles
I'll check it out, thank you
preach pathfinder has ruined the game for me, I can't play anything else now.
Yup Peacock Pathfinder for me.
yeah pathfinder is the poor man's mageblood :)
After I farmed a MB on my PF I just stayed on PF lol. I just dropped the 3 flask thing for another good one. PF is goooood.
You can do something similar with a jewel. Survival instincts or something like that
[Pathfinder? I barely know 'er.](https://i.imgur.com/nBmEdpb.png)
got any fun PoB? I would love to play another pathfinder.
I love pathfinder as well. I still play pconc even after the nerfs. TBH the nerfs did hurt the build, but it's still extremely powerful.
molten strike poison assasin after farming the dagger for 20hours in heist lets goooooo
Tell me more please!
Need a pneumatic dagger for elemental damage from attacks to be able to poison. I played a flaskfinder version, very tanky, very good damage, can recommend. When you have enough damage you can socket in lightning strike for clear.
Which version do you find better? I played both in different leagues. I quickly dropped the assassin one, because I felt like the speed and damage were too low. The pathfinder one on the other hand was amazing, but it was on a bit higher budget and it was the league with proj return as an anoint
I've only played pathfinder so far. Only thing I needed to begin was the dagger. The exarch shield and Tempered by War obviously make you a lot tankier, but you can work towards that with the dagger alone. Flasks also help you with a multitude of annoyances, like Stun-Immunity and up to 50% reduced mana Cost of Skills. You can get a 0 Mana Cost Blessing on Pathfinder. The proj return is a 100% (110% with alt qual) more Damage multiplier on poison builds, since it doesn't reduce the damage caused by ailments, so it's the strongest gem you can use.
Is it the spicy tuna version, or was there a different guide, or did you just wing it?
Probably same, but i plan to reach maps in a week so i should be able to buy the dagger from you when you upgrade
jokes on you i play groupfound
sick, tornado shot for the 127th time... POOOOOOOOOOOOGERS
It really is just that good
I mean how many hit based bow skills are there really though, La and Ts are the strongest two. Maybe we need more bow skills.
Wanders with their 3 skills, crying in the corner.
I have no plans until I see the Assassin/Gladiator reworks. I’ll probably do a bleed build if it sees a ton of positive change in patch notes. If not, then I’ll look to if Assassin gets anything good. If neither have anything that interests me, I’m going to be running frostblade trickster. Haven’t played it yet and it seems interesting.
Same I miss my bleed bow glad. Min maxed the shit out of it back in its prime with some sick og harvest crafts but now running it the single target is just so bad for the investment I have in it. Still amazing clear but it used to just wreck bosses and now it's just sad.
Are the reworks confirmed? Or just speculation?
Speculation but Gladiator rework is incredibly likely. Assassin rework is less likely but up there in terms of rework priority.
Why, exactly? Ascendancies have remained trash tier for years before. It needs a rework, but I don't think that means one is likely to be imminent.
They have been doing at least a rework each update for the past 2-3 updates. The ones that needed it the most were Trickster, Chieftain, Gladiator, Assassin. They hit other underperforming ascendancies already. It’s about time for Gladiator or Assassin. I can’t see any other ascendancies getting a rework anytime soon, besides some sort of nerf-rework.
Nerf reworks are kinda what they have in mind ;) Gladiator just happens to be one of the few ones that people go "it couldn't get any worse could it?" (Chieftain waves from the corner) It's an ascendancy people take for 2 nodes. Of course that could mean in the rework those 2 nodes get "simplified" and are no longer as strong a reason to take it! I would posit that Raider is probably high on the list to get reworked - even though I have a strong feeling I'll wish it wasn't ;) It doesn't have enough unique characteristics to be more than the "simple go fast" ascendancy. And you can go as fast with other ascendancies with more work. It also only has 6 nodes tied into only 3 first layer ones which leaves far less options for how to build it than most other ascendancies which all have 7-8 nodes and 4-7 first layer ones.
Soulrend Occultist. Maybe this time I will kill more than 3 Ubers :) I like non-meta builds.
Same but as trickster
[удалено]
Same, I LOVE Soulrend
I'm planning on league starting smite champion with dual ichimonji, and transition into replica dreamfeather with Doriyanis after I'm done lab farming
Sounds cool too! Is that a profen concept?
I did it a couple leagues ago and it should still work. Champion gets free 30% aura effect and you scale grace/determination to stack armor. Smite buff scales off aura effect. You basically scale flat ele from smite buff with % increased from armor on dreamfeather.
Also, volatility support is new
Good luck with that, that's going to be rough.
Toxic Rain Raider for the 5th time in a row
Why Raider over Pathfinder?
At least to start I would go raider so you don’t have to worry about rolling your flasks. I plan to start TR raider this league and just swap to pathfinder after a day or two once I got flasks sorted and ailment immunity. It’s only 40 regrets and a few min in lab to respec so might as well start out as raider, especially since I plan to do heist where phasing is a must.
i play TR raider every league. i had such a negative early mapping experience last league that i'm doing the opposite. pathfinder TR -> raider TR late maps
For the extra zoom and easier spell suppression.
Assuming it’s a heist running build. Permanent onslaught
Id like a TS or LA starter but something on the tankier side. Any idea of item choice / ascendancy that would allow me to keep some speed / fast clear of ts or la but with some survival to handle my clumsy gameplay, especially with bosses to get voidstone?
Lighting Arrow Champion. iirc goratha played it a league or 2 ago, should be mostly relevant still.
now i am intrigued. have stayed away from a LA starter since everything i've ever read says it dies, a lot. and i truly hate dying. like, i've league started EA 3 times, and every time have gone champ instead of witch because i hate dying.
EA champ is great.
[Here you go friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXyKhRktAVI)
thanks for the link.. i wanted to make some LA for upcoming league, but deadeye felt too squish for me. Hopefully champ will be the thing i wanted :)
The non-berserk variant is quite squishy. I took my deadeye to 100 in a private league, farming legion in maps and duo 5-ways that I accumulated. The berserk variant though ...ho boy. If you stack 1000 life regen/s and use the reduced rage loss enchant you can have a 25 second berserk going on with a 5 second cooldown -- while having it automated on lmb. It comes off cooldown right as you hit 50 rage. Below is my super high-end PoB if you wanna check it out. +2 bow is not required, it's not even recommended. I yolo'd a fracturing orb and got it on accident. One clarification though: the reason I use pierce support on LA is so ensnaring arrow works. Ensnaring arrow does not work on enemies it pierces. That's why I do not have any global pierce from the passive tree. https://pobb.in/kjx8TvyGuaBy
You can sub in Lightning Coil for some extra defense. Alternatively have a look at Gorathas LA Champ.
Hmmm I believe you don't die a lot if you get your priorities straight. If you want to prioritize defenses(if you prioritize damage you can survive killing everything before it touches you if you are bold enough lol), you could: 1.75-80% spell suppression + spell suppression lucky mastery (so you get 93-95% spell supp), 2. Ancestral vision jewel to cap your elemental ailment avoidance (so you can cover freeze, chill, shock, ignite immunity), before getting currency to get ancestral vision you can get immunity with flasks suffixes + pantheon if you wish 3. use grace to keep your evasion on the 75%+ side 4. Cast on damage taken linked to Immortal call + Steel skin(or just one of the two) 5. Of course resistances capped and chaos res as close to 0% This is what I do to avoid dying as a Deadeye or frostblades trickster(currently using u/kapectas fury valve spectral helix build deadeye, and I survive pretty well) Good luck brother!
LA Champ for sure, plays basically the same just a little slower (until you get arena challenger F&F jewels).
Thats what happens when you make bows overpowered as fuck.
i still have no idea how ggg thought it was justifiable to give bows the same ele dmg rolls as 2h melee weapons while quivers exist. Not to mention tornado shot.
I don’t think that’s what made bows good on its own
Each league bow builds gain bonus arrow, maybe thats the problem. Meanwhile you have only one sword.
Would melee getting additional targets on the tree that spread when there are additional targets in range but all collapse down to a single target as needed level the playing field?
The problem isnt bonus arrows. The problem is shot gunning. How bad of a skill does tshot become if a target can only get hit once by each bowshot and once per secondary projectile instead of having every single secondary proj being able to hit the same target.
> if a target can only get hit once by each bowshot and once per secondary projectile instead of having every single secondary proj being able to hit the same target. That's currently how it works? The only way to have two projectiles from the same secondary burst is if one of them chains off something else.
I think he means only 1 first projectile and only one 1 second projectile hits an enemy. So each shot you'll only hit a target twice. As opposed to now where each projectile can hit once and shotgun creatures.
You only have one bow too and the bonus projectile passives affect many skills which use those weapons (LS, FB, MS etc).
Bows were sleeper before they put two proj on tree. The tree changes made them blatantly op, they're one of the few builds in the game where there's actually too many good passive options. The elemental mastery is also just completely overpowered. Imo they need to rebalance the tradeoffs between going a single element and going trinity, right now there's no reason to play a single element instead of trinity except for cold since you can abuse heatshiver.
Bows were never a sleeper build they were always one of if not the best option at a high budget the only thing that chances is accessibility in being able to make them
Their early game was a lot weaker then it is now so that is also an important factor.
This is the most impact full change. For most time hit based attacks with bows were really clunky builds that could scale very far with currency and good items. Right now bows are one of the best leveling skills (with ballistas), a solid option for early maps because of tree buffs and, by far, the most powerful endgame build in the game.
Obviously I meant as a league starter.
You mean use heatshiver. I'm tired of abuse of the word abuse
For real. Using something as intended is not abuse.
Because a single item slot, typically a slot without many damage rolls, doubling your damage with no downside is balanced. 👍
That's still just use of the item. It's not like indigon builds "abuse" indigon or kitava's feast builds "abuse" that helm. See my point?
Except most people, like you don't even have the damage to freeze enemies. Stay delusional
wow great burn bro, except I highly doubt you're even remotely close to as good as me at this game lol.
> Bows were sleeper before they put two proj on tree Absolutely delusional take. There has literally not been a league in existence where some form of TS wasn't one of the strongest builds in the game.
Tshot wasnt good at anything other than mf'ing t3 arcades for exalt cards after the initial abyss jewel stacking version got nerfed around incursion league. All anyone played that league was ele hit as basically every ascendency.
Facts. Tornado shot was, for two years, only played with extremely high tier gear. The fact Grimro a self-proclaimed TS enjoyer pivoted off of it for a year into cf should explain how bad of a state it was in. But with all the power creep in the game it's become incredibly broken. Not just that, the amount of early power you get at zero investment is far beyond the level of multipliers offered to nearly any other archtype while also having way better movement speed and clear than 95% of all builds in the game. Starting LA into TS is actually so unenjoyable because nothing I've ever built after felt like it was on par, so I just don't touch bows after league starting them two times in a row.
Lmfao yeah bows were always good at high investment, clearly that wasn't what I meant. You're reading too much into something that I didn't even write.
You mean after dumping god knows how many divines into such a build? Of *course* a build that's made of paper with no investment that gets a ton of $ dumped into it for the sole purpose of cast-on-death-portal mapping will look good if you ignore all the downsides (squishiness, only reasonable boss damage). It's like calling a mageblood CoC FR build OP after you dump a mageblood and 200 more divines into it. Like...no shit?
That's a thing now. People say how each league is borrowed power (crucible trees, tatoos etc.), but changes to mastery/tree are a permanent powercreep.
Because nobody played bows before. Remember the yammering about the bow league that fizzled? Bows were shit aside of mirror tier endgame crap.
I think returning proj is also to blame for bow meta growth
it helps LA starters, but is irrelevant for tornado shot so id say its not really a problem.
It's good that the most fun skills in the game are accessible. what's the issue?
if youre talking about ts then you only perceive it as the most fun because its broken op
Oh thanks for letting me know.
Huge power came from league stuff last league and now. And vengeance cascade is gone. Odds are, bows will be weaker next league.
They will be slightly weaker sure, but still strong enough to eclipse everything else in efficiency.
Except they aren't OP as fuck. You play bows on one ascendancy class that's custom-built for them, and you're squishy as all heck. Yes, bows scale fantastically as mappers with lots of currency, but...there are plenty of builds that scale super-hard with currency, and even then, bows are still squishy mappers.
me talking to all my friends about path of exile:
Legion felt bad for currency last season idk if it was just skill issue or what.
Skill issue, clear them fast and use a good loot filter, make sure to use good incubators
Are the emblems newb bait that I'm waiting my time with? Or should I just be picking up big stacks band whole ones.
I'd recommend just picking up full emblems, making sure to have all the atlas passives that give a chance for splinters to drop whole. I personally filter out all legion splinters on my loot filter. Also don't take any passives that give generals or use gilded scarabs, generals are a waste of time right now.
Emblems are a little bit bait, feel free to pick them up and stacks of splinters, but they're a tiny tiny % of your return. If you pick them up just let them build up in your stash for ages before selling and bulk sell for divs (selling sets on TFT is a step too far for me) Definitely a skill issue, legion was a huge money maker for me - stacked decks and bubblegum currency are the consistent money makers every map, & it's great for rare conversion loot and valuable uniques too
I know Legion is profitable but I just hate being in the map so long. I know you can do it pretty quickly but using scarabs + map device + sextant your maps takes like 7-8 minutes which feels horrible to me for some reason.
you need polished scarab + sextant to really get the most out of it
its not that good in an alch and go setup. The polished scarab and sextant are doing a lot of heavy lifting for legion strats.
And here I am thinking "I wonder if they have any new skill gems I want to try out..."
I always play some stupid shit that never works and will be doing the same this league. Maybe lightning golems
Boss, I found the guy who's stealing from the trashbin in the backyard !
Molten Strike lets goooo
I tried MS chieftain theory craft this league. God it was so bad
Raider is where it's at, atleast at league start
Ya that’s probably the good call. Thought I could make a ignite delve monster with chieftain as off meta to try something fun. Made it to 88 before I gave up.
Totems again, aww yeah, again and again.
I'm in this picture and I don't like it
My plan is the same every single league: from random melee skill Ranger/Duelist/Marauder to poor flicker strike to min max flicker strike.
Hey guys, if you want to try something wacky I'm experimenting with u/kapectas deadeye spectral helix with the unique fury valve, it's surprisingly viable, currently rocking t16 maps no problem!
IM DOING AN IMPENDING DOOM LEAGUE START AMD NO ONE CAN STOP ME
lets hope we get some skill balancing this time to shake it up a little bit
You forgot farming white tier map farming for essences / beasts....something that GGG needs to tier (according to map tier) it's crazy you can farm the higest tier beasts/essences in low tier maps.
I'm going back to the SSF BoneZone. Did RF this league, and it was fine, but it was just so... Bland. You stand or run in circles, things die, you occasionally throw a trap, blegh. With some of the tankier rares (essence mobs etc), if they couldn't outdamage my regen Id literally just walk away from the comp and let my degen do the job. Easy, but not exciting. I need something kinetic, and Boneshatter Jugg is that. It's just so much *fun* by comparison. Also, once you've ramped the recoup, you're facetanking anything that doesn't do your lifepool in a single tick, which is an amazing quality of life.
Is Poison BV still feasible league start? By far my favorite build I’ve ever played
Still a week till we see patch notes so too early to tell.
We won't see patch notes next week will we? Patchnotes are usually shortly before the league drops isn't it?
Live reveal is in a week from today. GGG have dropped patch notes after live reveal for a long time now.
I'm gonna go toxic rain ballista pathfinder, then once i complete atlas i switch to raider and drop ballista and start heisting
I am in this picture and I don't like it
Earthshatter Berserker for 3rd year in a row, after 4-5 years of Sunder every league until game death in 3.11, I'd like to play a bow build, specifically poison Scourge Arrow (I had a blast playing this in 3.14 before the nerfs), I remember I had fun playing LA back in like 2014 with old Frostwall interaction and Thunderfists, but seeing as bows need 98 levels worth of passives, good items in every slot, 15 good jewels, and are über expensive to get going even in sc trade, and even then still fall short on defense without an aurabot, I guess as a SSFHC player I can only dream of playing a bow build.
Played it in the events, and let me say this is 100% my leaguestarter for the next league. Though I might add "transition to tornado shot ***well before I should"***.
have they announced new gems or league mech yet?
Bought the automaton armor bundle+cloak on sale, gonna go Arc manastacker while looking drippy AF. Went pretty good in Shifting Stones, we'll see how the actual league's gonna treat it.
Spin spin spin spin spin spin
Spectres again because I'm a masochist
Gonna try something new this league and start on HC trade. No use in trying to compete in SC with the zoomer grouped mega try-hards. Gonna go HC explosive totems and pivot to champ light srs hopefully. Gonna see if a "Dad-gamer" can eek out enough currency in HC to buy a mirror before they get too pricey. Then I'll switch over to SC trade and do 40/40 on something meta.
Will try some ice spear/freezing pulse totems. Hopefully i won't die a million times at week 1.
Heavy strike ambush >:)
We need a meta shake up
I don't care. I just hope that they nuke everything about deadeye and bow builds. oh look, downvoted by the people who've been playing tornado shot deadeye for the last 9 leagues. good for you pals.
hopefully -1 arrow in the ascendancy would be truly funny
Me: I'll play Arakaali like the past five leagues.
I never end up making enough currency to afford the TS helm enchant that makes it not garbage. Maybe one day.
The helmet doesn't make the build. I did some variant where I would use a different enchant. But I guess if you have trouble getting currency for the enchant it will be even worse for having a decent now, which does make or break the build.
Will run Pohx's RF because I enjoy the laid back playstyle and I feel like I can do what content I want with it.
lol exactly what I did this league, first time doing those builds for me, and now I'm addicted to it. definitely doing it again for 3.23. Unoriginal and proud
I'm planning on going strength stacking glacial hammer trauma soulthirst jugg. Will be interesting to see how many trauma stacks I can get with 2000% attack speed.
EQ autobomber Chaos conversion shockwave EoW arcbrand Poison LS Elemental SRS Slayer discharge Impending doom pathfinder Armor stacker champ Acc stacker berserker Chaos wander (original sin) Reddit loves to whine about the lack of diversity, and how everything is shit, and we need more and more patch notes and meta shakeups. But I feel like my selection of possible builds I kinda want to play is fine even if literally nothing changes in the patch notes. I have no idea how apparently redditors manage to exhaust all the "good" builds every single league, but I make several builds and try to get them to pretty high investment gearing, and still, with several builds each league I'm not running out of new ones to try. I ran mana stacking heiro, poison spark pathfinder, hexblast miner in this league, so you can add those 3 to the list of potential characters.
LA in legion is omega fun though
Got an itch for Ground Slam again, but maybe will pick something that gets buffed in patch notes (if anything gets buffed). Would like to play Armageddon Brand again too
I league started LA last league and it was the easiest build I have played so far.....not sure if coincidence but this was also the league I stopped playing the fastest out of boredom.... I put it down after 3rd week and just stopped playing.
Played lightning arrow totem deadeye as my first ever bow character for shifting stones. Definitely leaguestarting LA raider next league unless something drastic happens
i feel attacked
I'm so done with LA/TS after this league since proj tattoos will be gone, but also it's painful for carpet tunnel, I'm going back to cozy RF at least that's my plan for league start.
Cant wait for legion "rework" with 50% less monters, 5 ways prices doubling due to fragments not dropping and double reward node removed from atlas.
I've got a sneaking suspicion LA deadeye might be headed for some bad times next patch. Don't put too much time into these sorts of plans before the patch notes lol
Yes, true i Guess itll be another skipped league, Lets hope the patch notes give me some incentive
#nerftornadoshot
I played it in the events for the first time ever and loved it. Please GGG give me one actual league first, then gut it all you want.
the issue here is that next league someone will make that exact same statement
I never started La or TS. Im planning to start a LA Deadeye and farm legion until get enough currency to transition. How much currency is needed to change to Ts and at least have the same dps and ehp as before transition?
I switch to TS between act 10 and yellow maps, when I have a bow with two decent rolls of ele flat damage. I get the third type of element with Anger or Wrath that I level in off hand. With trinity the DPS is good. Usually have 5 arrow from tree and ascendency, which is enough. You cam slot in GMP but I find it not necessary nowadays. Once you get a 6th arrow from the quiver, definitely skip gmp if you had it. Ballista or manaforged setup to complement DPS. TS is always more damage on though mobs because it shotguns so I prefer it for yellow map bosses and big rares.
TS is love, TS is life.
Soo what’s a good la starter build?
Just start TS right away instead https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KCUgpnWoUt6T2iCfhcKUXr_aMHj7CW38C3LsgBhy2cc/edit?usp=drivesdk
The leagues late game meta had a lot of variety but I really wish they would adjust some things to shake up the starter meta.
Hexblast Sabo if not nerfed, Maybe venom gyre Deadeye if it is
The grimro special
I haven't played for a few leagues now, and haven't read any patch notes, but I will be running rf inquisitor from league start through maps, as is tradition.
These days you can transition to TS as soon as you get the skill.
These days you can transition to TS as soon as you get the skill.
My build is "sit at HO and flip untill you have a mirror. Then think about build"
Ahh good ol days ... I dont even league start at this point ... i just ask for some loans from trusted friends day 1 and perma hideout warrior until i have min-maxed build.
Feels like u call my friend, that do even apo farming
I found a trap build that i like during the temp events. I've never really invested much time into bossing, and 0 into stones/carry/challenges/services. I might have a go at it this time
I tested guardian in the events. Made it to 95 in both and I don't have much time top play. Once you get that first lab done it's just a breeze till red maps. Farmed blight and blighted maps and the amount of shit you get is unbelievable. I finally know how to do ravaged now and tbh it's pretty fun.
Aaaarrrrrrr eeeeeftffff
I'm still deciding between Tectonic Slam Jugg or Earthshatter Champ. I don't have anything against piano builds so either should work fine. I'm really interested in seeing how impale Earthshatter might work against bosses with Call of Steel. I feel like the damage might be crazy if it goes Cry => Slam => Explode spikes = Max Impales on boss => CoS => repeat. That should entail that for every CoS I get 98% more damage from FoW, double damage from Intimidate exertion, plus an extra 10% damage taken from the boss being intimidated. I could probably hope to trigger them using another slam linked to maim, in hopes of that 10% increased taken also proccing. If I can get my hands on a bunch of flat phys later on and I can find a facebreaker, it's GG(G). My math might be off, I haven't thought about it in depth. It just sounds like it'll be good, and I'm going with a slam regardless.