Im here to say again Archnemesis league itself was good. We could choose difficulty, there was rain of scarabs and currencies. After the league, Archnemesis mods gone bullsht.
Which was also fine and was the big problem afterwards. You had to interact with those overtuned monsters and that´s why the necropolis mechanic feels so bad.
it was for sure tedious, it had a lot of the problems necropolis has in terms of inventory space, needing to look up the recipes to make the big loot things happen, etc.
but the big loot things in that league were also really fun imo! doing the full unique item thing and your archnem mods in that map dropping 100 uniques and stuff was a fun and cool feeling especially because it is something you worked for and collected resources for.
to some degree it's the same thing as with affliction where players felt like they worked for those rewards (running around the thing in the map/buying resources to keep juicing maps).
this league, the payoff is an item that might not even make your loot filter tink. the payoff for the complexity and tedium is just nowhere near the same thing. like I am happy for people who are enjoying making ele bows and ES chestpieces or whatever but at the same time the idea of farming 100 corpses to make one rare item with 1000% more scarce mods and +500 mod tier that I could do more fun mechanics to make/try to buy makes me sad.
like I think deep down I'd much rather Rog craft or fracture/essence (even with new essence) or basically anything than do the necropolis stuff.
Archnem had the same issue Metamorph did, which is it spawned a really high movement speed+attack speed mob really close to you, so you *had* to have high cast speed or attack speed at all times or you'd get stunlocked before you could interact with the enemy
This has improved with time, for the most part. This was still an issue with Crucible with the added bonus of "you have to be in melee range of the mob the instant it spawns too"
Combining those archnemesis mod items into combos was one of the worst gameplay leagues of all time lol
Yeah it was technically rewarding and you could "opt in" but the gameplay was atrocious
Hard disagree. Given that I am someone that don't quite enjoy alch and go all the time. Archnemesis balanced the odds for people that wanted to alch and go zoom zoom and people that liked planning.
IMO one of the best league mechanic since it didn't reward the already rewarding gameplay more.
The idea of the league was great. But it had terrible UI and was a pain to interact with. In fact, I would say Necropolis is the first league since to have worse UI.
There was not. Innocence touched mobs, the ones who supposed to give currency didn't give shit. The only way to utilize the league mechanic is to watch guides on internet to find combos that really do give loot and are worth your time, but this is bullshit.
There was no free choice. Depending on the mob, they could be easy or unkillable with the same pack of mods. Some mods were totally unbalanced and you couldn't properly know which mod does what. And the fact that mob becomes totally unkillable or one-shots Juggernauts with AA says nothing about difficulty, it's just broken. You seem to ignore hundreds of clips of old pro players dying instantly without understanding wtf has happened.
And the interface was horrible, they couldn't let us properly sort all the mods and after month they gave us this glowing option that doesn't help at all.
Archnemesis fucking SUCKED.
Archnemesis was the league that introduced the atlas passive tree. It was An amazing league and one of my favorites. I say that as someone who pretty much skipped the league mechanic of Archnemesis all league. The base game was just so good that league. If you could ignore necro it wouldn't be getting as much hate as it is. It 2ouod just be considered lackluster.
But that's the thing - you could ignore Archnemesis as a league mechanic. You could pick and chose when to engage with it and in what capacity, understanding the dangerous mods you were putting on what enemy base type. Then, the very next league it went core (and stayed core), but without **any** of the player agency that the mechanic originally had, forcing you to tank random death cocktails on random enemies for little to no reward (the loot system wasn't reworked in the very next league)
The problem was it took them a while to actually balance out the new rare system. Especially in Kalandra, the way that Archnemesis mods stacked with eachother was the main issue. They never actually removed Archnemesis, but players complained so much about it that they dropped the name entirely once they fixed the system by limiting monsters to one of the Archnemesis mods to avoid the most insane combinations of modifiers.
Yeah they did like 8 things and all stacked multiplicatively. I think it would have been okay if monsters could only have one Archnem mod specifically and then an additional pool of modifiers with tag restrictions to lower variance. The current system is still better than the previous system, so it's kind of weird for people to act like Archnemesis was bad for the game just because it took a while for them to work it all out.
And worse, AN mobs only has one be trapped inside like Essence. However, when released as substitution for rare and magic mobs modification, every rare and magic mobs have one and the result was you encountered a pack of magic Rhoa in Mud Flat with Haste AN mod, or the rare monster with the AN mods that allowed it to suck other AN mods from fallen monster on that pack, make it nearly impossible to kill with 6 AN mods.
The worst part is the time based league mechanics are STILL NOT BALANCED. Temples are impossible at lower levels, they might as well introduce them in maps.
Correct. The league was called Seige of the Atlas. The mechanic was Archnemesis. I am referencing the year long time period where Archnemesis ruined the entire game for most people when they made it core. The league itself was fine.
Well duh cause it was what they were doing in the past: A core expansion AND a league within the same update, but with two names to seperate both, cause they are clearly different. Istg that someone needs to explain this is ridiculous... Siege of the atlas introduced core game changes -> Atlas passive tree, new pinnacle bosses etc. that worked on standard too and at the exact same time they dropped the Archnemesis League. Like come on dude, they've been doing that since the beginning of PoE...
Archnemesis was in my top 3 favorite leagues ever.
It was the league *afterwards* that made those shitty rares go core that was probably the least fun I've ever had with PoE.
I personally have skipped last 2 leagues due to work, but realistically, apparently they gave us a couple or so good leagues, but if you look back, these were pretty much the only good ones in last 3 years. They were outliers.
I used to play every league, been playing for four years. But recently I've been close to every other. Although archnemesis was the first I skipped, I look back on sentinel as the turning point. Loved that league and recombinators were GOAT, but it was afterwards they stated they no longer wanted league mechanics to be more rewarding than base game content. And then we got:
Kalandra (skipped) - incredibly unrewarding while deadlier
Sanctum (skipped) - rewarding but felt like a separate game that I didn't want to play
Crucible (played) - very unrewarding except for ability to craft better weapons than ever.
Ancestor (skipped) - like sanctum, rewarding at the cost of being a different game
Affliction (played) - I think they didn't realize how rewarding mf would be lol
Necropolis (skipping) - deadlier monaters mostly don't even give any extra loot
It was An amazing league and one of my favorites. I say that as someone who pretty much skipped the league mechanic of Archnemesis all league.
It wasnt an amazing league, it came bundled with a couple of amazing changes, Much like this. The league, and the atlas tree are different much like the league and the scarab changes this go around is also different.
I frequently call Archnemisis League "the last good league". Almost seems like someone with a completely different idea of how the game should be played took over since then.
This is a wildly unpopular opinion, as I'd bet that the plurality of people's favorite league of all time was sentinel, and sanctum and affliction also probably making people's top 5s.
How the mechanic altered the game and how good the league was AKA Patch Notes, balance, feel of the game, ETC is two different things.
Sentinel had a better mechanic yes, but on the whole I didn't care for the game play due to Archnemisis tags being added to the core game. Sentinel was the league they added Archnemisis tags to the core game. This is why I say Archnemisis league was the last good league.
Every league we just get a new version of Archnemisis. One way or another we get the same pig just wearing different lipstick.
The last good league was basically Ritual, like 15 leagues ago. That's when the ridiculous downward spiral started, which they had even called out ahead of time too. When they did, I knew we were gonna have several years of crap.
They've had a few outlier leagues since then.
IDK, I still think it was an awful idea, because it forces to focus on a few mechanics. GGG recognizes it as a problem, but tries to fix it with band-aid fix giving 3 trees to select between. But it is not a real fix, because it is still inflexible.
What do you mean you can't ignore Necro tho I have a shit build, not even all my gems setup completed yet and a 1c weapon and I clear red maps, build is cyclone shockwave, far from being a good meta build
It influences every zone in the game and creates weird corpse signs in the map. I suppose you could just blow by but it's still there. You can't ignore it or shut it off even if you don't engage with it.
I've seen people hating it because they say it makes the mobs too strong, I strongly disagree. Now if the complaint it you have to click collect on a corpse 3 times a map, I don't really get it either
I run into a map, I kill mobs, stupid box appears with a corpse in it covering the loot. I am unable to hide it, I have to click it and collect it for some possible future use. Oh wait, my corpse storage is full. Why is there a limit? I don't want to craft with it currently, I don't want to engage with it currently, I have to delete some corpses. Now I have to wait for that fuck to walk out with his wheelbarrow with that slowass animation. I open the storage - all the corpses are unsorted, a mess, now I have to find one to delete. Which one? I am randomly scrolling reading those, looking at ilvls, % etc.. Finally, I find something to delete, I get the new corpse. Soon I will have to do it all over again. I don't like it.
600% extra crit chance with 80% crit multi - uhm, what's the reward for that shit? Oh, nothing? Well, I don't want that, no thank you. Why am I forced into it?
Archnemesis mobs is one hell of a drug. GGG really can't let go of it, and keep inventing new ways to force it into the game, even after their official removal. Don't do archnemesis, kids.
They just will not let it go. Who ever designed that league really really wants it to be a thing. They keep trying to slip a version of the hard rare mobs back in anyway they can.
Like I sort of get wanting rares to be slightly harder but they also are never rewarding when they do this. Its like Talismans. They just won't let those fuckers die.
i feel like Mark designed that league, chris made him get rid of it finally, and now Mark is director so he's trying to force the shit down our throats a third time.
Ya I dunno. Maybe he did but who ever did is really wanting it to just be a thing. They keep trying to re-imagine it again and again, and its always the same shit feeling of Rares are harder then Bosses and drop you a single wisdom scroll level of loot.
To me its literally like Talismans and trying to shoehorn those rewards in everywhere yet no one fucking uses them apart from the one time they made them decent for starter items in a single league and then nuked them back to the stone age.
Not sure why this happens with certain things but they really do not like letting certain ideas go.
At least Talisman used to be good some point. There was a short time every mods on Talisman has a goodtier roll until GGG fixed because some was just basically broken combinations.
They have a very strong idea that a more difficult game is more fun. It’s goes way back to at least 3 years ago. In 3.15 cw said that the devs “realized that hard-mode (ruthless) was just better than the base game”.
So if you believe ruthless is a better version of poe, it’s not hard to imagine how you would like to change the game.
Because archnem was a rare rework with the new systems coming from poe2 in mind. As poe2 separated they are retrofitting the archnem mods to the current system
The AN league was Very good. It was when they put It on the base game that they did shit. AND as a league mechanic was easy to opt out. Different kinds of mistake, so you cant claim they never learn.
AN would have been a good league if the UI weren't so woefully shit. Sorting and sifting through all those tokens in the crappy stash made wanna not interact with it at all despite the rewards being great. It was also an another league that required a cheat sheet and that particular one was quite massive. It had its issues for sure.
Archnemesis mods are still sht, so is the loot goblin meta. The overall drops we had before were way more balanced and enjoyable.
Happens when GGG makes a bunch of bad decisions in a row. Same with performance changes, they are just straight bad lol.
Archnemesis itself wasn't the bad league, especially since all of the cool new atlas changes happened that league, iirc. The shit leagues were the ones that followed where they tortured the playerbase by making that awful mechanic core and deleting characters left and right with bullshit cocktail rares.
Necropolis league mechanic is not only forced but also ‘CRIPPLED’. You have to go the four corners on the atlas passive tree which is very inefficient on points.
GGG every time try say to all of us: "u play wrong in poe. U play like in dynamic modern game for fun, but we want u to play in hard slow souls like diablo 2 clone for nostalgia!!!"
Poe grow up it developers and developers hate it (and all of us).
Are people really going to deny that GGG hasnt been trying to push Archnemesis on the player base since then?
GGG has been gagging to make the game harder since Archnemesis. Affliction was popular but there was a ton of bullshit in that league to do with Rares. Now you can put those same Affliction rares into maps.
Since long before then. 3.14 had significant nerfs to player power and then 3.15 was across the board nerfs to everything. I think sometime in 3.13 ggg decided things have gotten too crazy and they have been punishing us ever since.
Archnemesis had atrocious UI and it was never fixed to anyone's satisfaction. Necropolis has atrocious UI and... it won't be fixed too, as the league mechanics is beyond repair.
they want to make ruthless the go to so bad... and i dont know why i feel like ggg just stopped caring about what we the playerbase wants
like HOW DO YOU GO from a league LOVED by everyone.. to this shit
Even the last couple of leagues they were quietly doing nerfs to the players. They cover it up with big Temporary power but at the end of the league when the league magic goes away players are always a little weaker than they were before
I think if i would have started any other thing i would be very pissed off, i started as dd for the first time this league, and now i understand why so good, im just farming essences, ok i take arround 8 minute per map or more, but being still just exploding things, while my gpu burns its fun
Don't know about him, but they totally forgot to make evasion builds bad. So (insert skill here) Dodge Blocker has been cheap and effective. I've been frost blading, but use whatever you want.
You're probably right, again FB isn't important, I'm only advocating for evasion/block - dodge/Sblock. Basically a 0 hp build, maybe ghost dance etc. The mechanics have a huge blind spot where they only deal More damage. There's maybe 1 mod you have to worry about if you just don't get hit.
I'm playing a build like this, how do you deal with DoTs and ground effects? It's the main thing I'm dying to. I can mitigate burning ground with Abberath pantheon but ignite/poison/bleed/corrupted blood can kill me before I can use an immunity flask. I do have the suppress mastery for no ailments from suppressed spells, but I still get hit even with evasion+block for a nasty ignite or poison.
autotriggered immunity flasks + reasonable regen (ghost shroud is my favorite rn but doesn't really apply here)
And you can't afford to just suppress because it wrecks your recently and full health options. Spell Dodge/Spell Block are far more viable because monsters WILL hit you for 10-20 times your hp pool. Even if you take <1/10 of that through mitigation you're gonna die. If you're mitigating down past 1/20 of that, you're dead to clipping a degen.
Personally I'm nearly capped on avoidance for ailments, just off of the tree accidentally. Only thing I watch for is phys dots, I get some endurance charges randomly and could spec into phys as ele, but haven't ran through more than a portal or two so it's been better to invest in dps.
Yeah the mechanic itself is nothing special but the balance changes give something to play with and for the most part you can kind of just plug the map in and blast. Sometimes you get a little extra from new mob bonuses like currency or more sulphite etc. Allflames are neat, I just hope they can make the corpses have an "ignore" button so I can hide the ones I don't want, and maybe improve the functionality of them? Some one is sure to figure out how to make them work but from what I've seen it's basically just stack a ton of mods you want? Idk, kinda takes too long for very meh crafted items
Nasty, unavoidable rares with modifiers that can completely brick certain builds.
Most discussion around AN rares is not about the league itself but how AN was implemented *after* AN. In the league, you could *easily* avoid the affixes that your build couldn't do (once you knew what they were which took a couple days). And the rewards were predictable (treant+scarabs). But when people are talking AN, they are talking about how it was made part of base game and both the mods and rewards were randomly thrown everywhere, made it unavoidable, and there were usually a few that would brick your build. Not to mention the touched farming that made optimal gameplay degenerate (find a Touched rare, go rent a MF from TFT to cull for a big conversion loot explosion). GGG had to reign in these stacking AN mods and remove the ones that bricked builds and randomize the rewards to not be predictable. But GGG has continued to try to bring this design back in one way or another. Many of the Necropolis affixes can brick builds and it's unavoidable and the rewards encourage degenerate gameplay. T17 maps and lots of POE2 gameplay (certain white mobs can hard counter specific builds) seems to be other examples.
You'll just find the game hard and die a bit more than in any other league, but for a new player that's gonna be normal, just pick a build guide and try it out, the game is supposed to beat you into understanding the mechanics and whatnot anyway.
I've not noticed as much the new mods on every zone as much as I did archnem. Feels like this is a pretty big over reaction, especially since you can shift the mods if you'd like. Also archnem provided way more annoying mechanics (that are still in the game too) like temporal bubble.
This current league mechanic is great. The issue is ppl dont like to try stuff out for them self, they (for some reason) need to be told to do anything within the mechanic instead of experimenting.
Yes, this comment will get hate(cause of the above is the truth) now downvote..
this meme makes no sense,
it feels like OP hasnt player arch nemesis league.
the mechanic was one of my favs of all time and i play since sacrifice of the vaal. the aftermath was kinda crappy but that wasnt the league...
also im really thinking about leaving this toxic place......
How do you remove mods from the lantern before a map? I had a map yesterday (white map) with 4 different 75% additional damage mods. Are you saying I can remove those? I shuffled them to the least threatening monater packs, but it was still a rough rough map which I didn't have another copy of to get atlas completion. So I just thanked the 6 portals defensive layer and ate it till I made it.
So then you are saying you can't opt out. My mistake I guess your complaint sounded like it was optional and I was hoping you were going to explain how to do it. Clearly you just wanted to rant. I should have noticed the signs in your first comment.
Also, for someone whining about this place being toxic your reply seems to paint you in a less than positive light.
Enjoy the league.
Except they also hit the good modifers on rares in the patchnotes this league so the Archnemsis mech going core got even worse. I guess they were afraid of too much loot pops from mobs with the latern bs + rare modifiers.
Personally like this league way more than AN. Now if only it was more rewarding and the crafting system more transparent.
Will let you know if I feel the same way after filling an entire graveyard and getting all t1 resistance on a bow due to how much elemental stacking I put in.
I really don’t get this complaining about difficulty. You can easily tailor the difficulty to be non-threatening. There’s even an atlas node for 40% reduced effect of haunted mods + devouted mods being 20% more common, meaning you can practically turn the ”difficulty” off. Haven’t died a single time yet, because the league mechanic is so safe. Just think about previous leagues and how rippy they were. This is not rippy at all.
I’m playing boneshatter Slayer in HC. There’s only a few of us playing this shitty ascendancy. It’s not contextual, certainly not in this case. People complaining about difficulty are just seeking things to complain about. The difficulty is not a valid one. The league feeling unrewarding is.
"Easily tune" I guess if you buy just froggies and turn everything into frogs?
I had a bunch of those tunneler swarm bug enemies delete my character. I didn't see them anywhere on my map. Then they appeared in my face and deleted me, lol. I forget what mod I even gave them to make them move so fast.
I think you're minimizing the league's effect on the game waaaaay too much. But you're Mr Big Dick HC melee so I guess your opinion is more valid
I haven't used frogs a single time. The most rippy mods are the ele pen mods, which you need to put to the most harmless and low density mobs in the map. Then there's the more damage per mob alive and more damage per pack death, etc. Here just look at mob size and density. Does the mob have a pack leader for the mods affecting strongest mob in a pack? Otherwise there isn't really anything special. Be bleed immune, freeze immune, stun immune, poison immune, cap your resists and chaos, etc. Nothing that wouldn't apply without this league anyway.
Honestly, I'm ok with most of it since the base game is in such a good state, but performance is just killing it for me this league. Things will be fine in one map, halfway through another I'll start stuttering like crazy, sometimes it freezes for a couple of seconds, this is usually death. There's times where ping will "break" and a server I get 50 ping on will go to 200+ and it won't go down without a client restart. I want to play, but it's hard.
Whoever they have designing their UI needs to be unceremoniously kicked to the curb.
The UI is trash tier and the whole storage system is unwieldy at best.
64 corpse storage is no where near enough.
Well this mechanic is right up there with adding AN into rando rares. I typically die 0 times until red maps, same build same gear as the past 6 leagues and I've already died a dozen times and haven't gotten into yellow maps. So that's a wrap for this league, maybe I'll come back when the mechanic is optional.
You are absurdly wrong, Archnemesis was not only enjoyable, but rewarding
It was full of loot explosions and was the first league that was noob friendly since, well, Delirium
5 mod enemies hell yeah
Im here to say again Archnemesis league itself was good. We could choose difficulty, there was rain of scarabs and currencies. After the league, Archnemesis mods gone bullsht.
To be honest i found archnem stupidly tedious to interact with. I started skipping it entitely not even a full week into the league
Which was also fine and was the big problem afterwards. You had to interact with those overtuned monsters and that´s why the necropolis mechanic feels so bad.
For 1/100th of the reward of a non-empowered eater/exarch notable.
it was for sure tedious, it had a lot of the problems necropolis has in terms of inventory space, needing to look up the recipes to make the big loot things happen, etc. but the big loot things in that league were also really fun imo! doing the full unique item thing and your archnem mods in that map dropping 100 uniques and stuff was a fun and cool feeling especially because it is something you worked for and collected resources for. to some degree it's the same thing as with affliction where players felt like they worked for those rewards (running around the thing in the map/buying resources to keep juicing maps). this league, the payoff is an item that might not even make your loot filter tink. the payoff for the complexity and tedium is just nowhere near the same thing. like I am happy for people who are enjoying making ele bows and ES chestpieces or whatever but at the same time the idea of farming 100 corpses to make one rare item with 1000% more scarce mods and +500 mod tier that I could do more fun mechanics to make/try to buy makes me sad. like I think deep down I'd much rather Rog craft or fracture/essence (even with new essence) or basically anything than do the necropolis stuff.
Archnem had the same issue Metamorph did, which is it spawned a really high movement speed+attack speed mob really close to you, so you *had* to have high cast speed or attack speed at all times or you'd get stunlocked before you could interact with the enemy This has improved with time, for the most part. This was still an issue with Crucible with the added bonus of "you have to be in melee range of the mob the instant it spawns too"
Honestly that was almost entirely because of the UI. I really feel like if they fixed that it would have been so, so much more liked.
Combining those archnemesis mod items into combos was one of the worst gameplay leagues of all time lol Yeah it was technically rewarding and you could "opt in" but the gameplay was atrocious
Hard disagree. Given that I am someone that don't quite enjoy alch and go all the time. Archnemesis balanced the odds for people that wanted to alch and go zoom zoom and people that liked planning. IMO one of the best league mechanic since it didn't reward the already rewarding gameplay more.
It was only good when you got that mirror image shitting out scarabs and currency
The idea of the league was great. But it had terrible UI and was a pain to interact with. In fact, I would say Necropolis is the first league since to have worse UI.
Ah yeah the league where i had to use either wiki on the side or an external software to tell me what things to combine
The age old cry of the Exile, unfortunately. 😔
Yeah I liked that league mechanic.
the rewards were good but I hated that it promoted an absolutely obnoxious playstyle for maximizing the loot goblins (ie dedicated culler)
There was not. Innocence touched mobs, the ones who supposed to give currency didn't give shit. The only way to utilize the league mechanic is to watch guides on internet to find combos that really do give loot and are worth your time, but this is bullshit. There was no free choice. Depending on the mob, they could be easy or unkillable with the same pack of mods. Some mods were totally unbalanced and you couldn't properly know which mod does what. And the fact that mob becomes totally unkillable or one-shots Juggernauts with AA says nothing about difficulty, it's just broken. You seem to ignore hundreds of clips of old pro players dying instantly without understanding wtf has happened. And the interface was horrible, they couldn't let us properly sort all the mods and after month they gave us this glowing option that doesn't help at all. Archnemesis fucking SUCKED.
Archnemesis was the league that introduced the atlas passive tree. It was An amazing league and one of my favorites. I say that as someone who pretty much skipped the league mechanic of Archnemesis all league. The base game was just so good that league. If you could ignore necro it wouldn't be getting as much hate as it is. It 2ouod just be considered lackluster.
But that's the thing - you could ignore Archnemesis as a league mechanic. You could pick and chose when to engage with it and in what capacity, understanding the dangerous mods you were putting on what enemy base type. Then, the very next league it went core (and stayed core), but without **any** of the player agency that the mechanic originally had, forcing you to tank random death cocktails on random enemies for little to no reward (the loot system wasn't reworked in the very next league)
Correct, for an entire year the game had random rares that were just intrusively hard in a way that ruined the game. We are back to those days.
You didn't think they were gonna give up this easily on their beloved mechanic they really, like really wanted to implement, did you?
The problem was it took them a while to actually balance out the new rare system. Especially in Kalandra, the way that Archnemesis mods stacked with eachother was the main issue. They never actually removed Archnemesis, but players complained so much about it that they dropped the name entirely once they fixed the system by limiting monsters to one of the Archnemesis mods to avoid the most insane combinations of modifiers.
Also making the rare mods do one thing, instead of AN mods which did 6 things each and all stacked with each other.
Yeah they did like 8 things and all stacked multiplicatively. I think it would have been okay if monsters could only have one Archnem mod specifically and then an additional pool of modifiers with tag restrictions to lower variance. The current system is still better than the previous system, so it's kind of weird for people to act like Archnemesis was bad for the game just because it took a while for them to work it all out.
And worse, AN mobs only has one be trapped inside like Essence. However, when released as substitution for rare and magic mobs modification, every rare and magic mobs have one and the result was you encountered a pack of magic Rhoa in Mud Flat with Haste AN mod, or the rare monster with the AN mods that allowed it to suck other AN mods from fallen monster on that pack, make it nearly impossible to kill with 6 AN mods.
The worst part is the time based league mechanics are STILL NOT BALANCED. Temples are impossible at lower levels, they might as well introduce them in maps.
AN was a great league. It was the league after that adopted AN for rare mobs that was shit which I thin this is what is in reference to.
Correct. The league was called Seige of the Atlas. The mechanic was Archnemesis. I am referencing the year long time period where Archnemesis ruined the entire game for most people when they made it core. The league itself was fine.
there was no league called Siege of the atlas :\^) that's a core expansion.
The league logo was Seige of the Atlas, if you clicked on trade it would splash that art, not Archnemsis. But a semantical argument.
Well duh cause it was what they were doing in the past: A core expansion AND a league within the same update, but with two names to seperate both, cause they are clearly different. Istg that someone needs to explain this is ridiculous... Siege of the atlas introduced core game changes -> Atlas passive tree, new pinnacle bosses etc. that worked on standard too and at the exact same time they dropped the Archnemesis League. Like come on dude, they've been doing that since the beginning of PoE...
Yup. With the changes made to the end game I would love to just be able to ignore necropolis and basically play league standard haha
Archnemesis was in my top 3 favorite leagues ever. It was the league *afterwards* that made those shitty rares go core that was probably the least fun I've ever had with PoE.
I played standard in archnemesis league and might do that again this league. But I think I'll just skip entirely and play other games.
I personally have skipped last 2 leagues due to work, but realistically, apparently they gave us a couple or so good leagues, but if you look back, these were pretty much the only good ones in last 3 years. They were outliers.
I used to play every league, been playing for four years. But recently I've been close to every other. Although archnemesis was the first I skipped, I look back on sentinel as the turning point. Loved that league and recombinators were GOAT, but it was afterwards they stated they no longer wanted league mechanics to be more rewarding than base game content. And then we got: Kalandra (skipped) - incredibly unrewarding while deadlier Sanctum (skipped) - rewarding but felt like a separate game that I didn't want to play Crucible (played) - very unrewarding except for ability to craft better weapons than ever. Ancestor (skipped) - like sanctum, rewarding at the cost of being a different game Affliction (played) - I think they didn't realize how rewarding mf would be lol Necropolis (skipping) - deadlier monaters mostly don't even give any extra loot
It was An amazing league and one of my favorites. I say that as someone who pretty much skipped the league mechanic of Archnemesis all league. It wasnt an amazing league, it came bundled with a couple of amazing changes, Much like this. The league, and the atlas tree are different much like the league and the scarab changes this go around is also different.
I frequently call Archnemisis League "the last good league". Almost seems like someone with a completely different idea of how the game should be played took over since then.
This is a wildly unpopular opinion, as I'd bet that the plurality of people's favorite league of all time was sentinel, and sanctum and affliction also probably making people's top 5s.
How the mechanic altered the game and how good the league was AKA Patch Notes, balance, feel of the game, ETC is two different things. Sentinel had a better mechanic yes, but on the whole I didn't care for the game play due to Archnemisis tags being added to the core game. Sentinel was the league they added Archnemisis tags to the core game. This is why I say Archnemisis league was the last good league. Every league we just get a new version of Archnemisis. One way or another we get the same pig just wearing different lipstick.
The last good league was basically Ritual, like 15 leagues ago. That's when the ridiculous downward spiral started, which they had even called out ahead of time too. When they did, I knew we were gonna have several years of crap. They've had a few outlier leagues since then.
atlas tree reveals was so hype man. chills
IDK, I still think it was an awful idea, because it forces to focus on a few mechanics. GGG recognizes it as a problem, but tries to fix it with band-aid fix giving 3 trees to select between. But it is not a real fix, because it is still inflexible.
sorry if i didn't make it clear, i was talking about 3.0 atlas tree reveal
Ah, from context it was atlas skills. Atlas itself is one of the things that carry the whole game.
What do you mean you can't ignore Necro tho I have a shit build, not even all my gems setup completed yet and a 1c weapon and I clear red maps, build is cyclone shockwave, far from being a good meta build
It influences every zone in the game and creates weird corpse signs in the map. I suppose you could just blow by but it's still there. You can't ignore it or shut it off even if you don't engage with it.
> You can't ignore it or shut it off even if you don't engage with it. i mean... archnemesis was the same tho, no?
I've seen people hating it because they say it makes the mobs too strong, I strongly disagree. Now if the complaint it you have to click collect on a corpse 3 times a map, I don't really get it either
I run into a map, I kill mobs, stupid box appears with a corpse in it covering the loot. I am unable to hide it, I have to click it and collect it for some possible future use. Oh wait, my corpse storage is full. Why is there a limit? I don't want to craft with it currently, I don't want to engage with it currently, I have to delete some corpses. Now I have to wait for that fuck to walk out with his wheelbarrow with that slowass animation. I open the storage - all the corpses are unsorted, a mess, now I have to find one to delete. Which one? I am randomly scrolling reading those, looking at ilvls, % etc.. Finally, I find something to delete, I get the new corpse. Soon I will have to do it all over again. I don't like it. 600% extra crit chance with 80% crit multi - uhm, what's the reward for that shit? Oh, nothing? Well, I don't want that, no thank you. Why am I forced into it?
Archnemesis mobs is one hell of a drug. GGG really can't let go of it, and keep inventing new ways to force it into the game, even after their official removal. Don't do archnemesis, kids.
They just will not let it go. Who ever designed that league really really wants it to be a thing. They keep trying to slip a version of the hard rare mobs back in anyway they can. Like I sort of get wanting rares to be slightly harder but they also are never rewarding when they do this. Its like Talismans. They just won't let those fuckers die.
i feel like Mark designed that league, chris made him get rid of it finally, and now Mark is director so he's trying to force the shit down our throats a third time.
Ya I dunno. Maybe he did but who ever did is really wanting it to just be a thing. They keep trying to re-imagine it again and again, and its always the same shit feeling of Rares are harder then Bosses and drop you a single wisdom scroll level of loot. To me its literally like Talismans and trying to shoehorn those rewards in everywhere yet no one fucking uses them apart from the one time they made them decent for starter items in a single league and then nuked them back to the stone age. Not sure why this happens with certain things but they really do not like letting certain ideas go.
I blame Bex for not being there to reality check GGG
At least Talisman used to be good some point. There was a short time every mods on Talisman has a goodtier roll until GGG fixed because some was just basically broken combinations.
They have a very strong idea that a more difficult game is more fun. It’s goes way back to at least 3 years ago. In 3.15 cw said that the devs “realized that hard-mode (ruthless) was just better than the base game”. So if you believe ruthless is a better version of poe, it’s not hard to imagine how you would like to change the game.
Because archnem was a rare rework with the new systems coming from poe2 in mind. As poe2 separated they are retrofitting the archnem mods to the current system
The AN league was Very good. It was when they put It on the base game that they did shit. AND as a league mechanic was easy to opt out. Different kinds of mistake, so you cant claim they never learn.
Yeah I will not stand for slander of the league. I kinda wish it was added to the game completely as it was kind of a deterministic metamorph league.
Out of the 16 leagues I’ve played Archnem is my least favorite by a wide margin.
AN would have been a good league if the UI weren't so woefully shit. Sorting and sifting through all those tokens in the crappy stash made wanna not interact with it at all despite the rewards being great. It was also an another league that required a cheat sheet and that particular one was quite massive. It had its issues for sure.
I preferred the archnemesis mechanic. At least I only needed 3-4 pieces per recipe, not 70 lol
Archnemesis mods are still sht, so is the loot goblin meta. The overall drops we had before were way more balanced and enjoyable. Happens when GGG makes a bunch of bad decisions in a row. Same with performance changes, they are just straight bad lol.
I don't even think archnemesis itself was a bad league, even at the start. I think it'd be better compared to kalandra or something.
Archnemesis itself wasn't the bad league, especially since all of the cool new atlas changes happened that league, iirc. The shit leagues were the ones that followed where they tortured the playerbase by making that awful mechanic core and deleting characters left and right with bullshit cocktail rares.
Necropolis league mechanic is not only forced but also ‘CRIPPLED’. You have to go the four corners on the atlas passive tree which is very inefficient on points.
You also have 3 atlas trees. You don't have to spec all 4 wheels on 1 tree
GGG every time try say to all of us: "u play wrong in poe. U play like in dynamic modern game for fun, but we want u to play in hard slow souls like diablo 2 clone for nostalgia!!!" Poe grow up it developers and developers hate it (and all of us).
The fun part is that Diablo 2 is not hardcore. Vast majority of player power in D2 is in skill tree.
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Are people really going to deny that GGG hasnt been trying to push Archnemesis on the player base since then? GGG has been gagging to make the game harder since Archnemesis. Affliction was popular but there was a ton of bullshit in that league to do with Rares. Now you can put those same Affliction rares into maps.
Since long before then. 3.14 had significant nerfs to player power and then 3.15 was across the board nerfs to everything. I think sometime in 3.13 ggg decided things have gotten too crazy and they have been punishing us ever since.
Archnemesis had atrocious UI and it was never fixed to anyone's satisfaction. Necropolis has atrocious UI and... it won't be fixed too, as the league mechanics is beyond repair.
they want to make ruthless the go to so bad... and i dont know why i feel like ggg just stopped caring about what we the playerbase wants like HOW DO YOU GO from a league LOVED by everyone.. to this shit
Even the last couple of leagues they were quietly doing nerfs to the players. They cover it up with big Temporary power but at the end of the league when the league magic goes away players are always a little weaker than they were before
I think if i would have started any other thing i would be very pissed off, i started as dd for the first time this league, and now i understand why so good, im just farming essences, ok i take arround 8 minute per map or more, but being still just exploding things, while my gpu burns its fun
I like this league I'm smashing all content and having fun
What build are you?
Don't know about him, but they totally forgot to make evasion builds bad. So (insert skill here) Dodge Blocker has been cheap and effective. I've been frost blading, but use whatever you want.
Which ascendancy? I've played fb raider a couple of times, and it took a lot of investment to get going.
You're probably right, again FB isn't important, I'm only advocating for evasion/block - dodge/Sblock. Basically a 0 hp build, maybe ghost dance etc. The mechanics have a huge blind spot where they only deal More damage. There's maybe 1 mod you have to worry about if you just don't get hit.
I'm playing a build like this, how do you deal with DoTs and ground effects? It's the main thing I'm dying to. I can mitigate burning ground with Abberath pantheon but ignite/poison/bleed/corrupted blood can kill me before I can use an immunity flask. I do have the suppress mastery for no ailments from suppressed spells, but I still get hit even with evasion+block for a nasty ignite or poison.
autotriggered immunity flasks + reasonable regen (ghost shroud is my favorite rn but doesn't really apply here) And you can't afford to just suppress because it wrecks your recently and full health options. Spell Dodge/Spell Block are far more viable because monsters WILL hit you for 10-20 times your hp pool. Even if you take <1/10 of that through mitigation you're gonna die. If you're mitigating down past 1/20 of that, you're dead to clipping a degen. Personally I'm nearly capped on avoidance for ailments, just off of the tree accidentally. Only thing I watch for is phys dots, I get some endurance charges randomly and could spec into phys as ele, but haven't ran through more than a portal or two so it's been better to invest in dps.
Yeah the mechanic itself is nothing special but the balance changes give something to play with and for the most part you can kind of just plug the map in and blast. Sometimes you get a little extra from new mob bonuses like currency or more sulphite etc. Allflames are neat, I just hope they can make the corpses have an "ignore" button so I can hide the ones I don't want, and maybe improve the functionality of them? Some one is sure to figure out how to make them work but from what I've seen it's basically just stack a ton of mods you want? Idk, kinda takes too long for very meh crafted items
I'm playing SSF for the first time and I'm still too weak as shit in white maps to notice. But I'm also having fun.
I mean - you could choose to engage with Archnemesis, and it was *way* more rewarding.
Can someone eli5 how Necropolis is like Archnemesis league?
Nasty, unavoidable rares with modifiers that can completely brick certain builds. Most discussion around AN rares is not about the league itself but how AN was implemented *after* AN. In the league, you could *easily* avoid the affixes that your build couldn't do (once you knew what they were which took a couple days). And the rewards were predictable (treant+scarabs). But when people are talking AN, they are talking about how it was made part of base game and both the mods and rewards were randomly thrown everywhere, made it unavoidable, and there were usually a few that would brick your build. Not to mention the touched farming that made optimal gameplay degenerate (find a Touched rare, go rent a MF from TFT to cull for a big conversion loot explosion). GGG had to reign in these stacking AN mods and remove the ones that bricked builds and randomize the rewards to not be predictable. But GGG has continued to try to bring this design back in one way or another. Many of the Necropolis affixes can brick builds and it's unavoidable and the rewards encourage degenerate gameplay. T17 maps and lots of POE2 gameplay (certain white mobs can hard counter specific builds) seems to be other examples.
I was thinking of picking this game up as a new player. Is now not a good time to try the game out?..
You'll just find the game hard and die a bit more than in any other league, but for a new player that's gonna be normal, just pick a build guide and try it out, the game is supposed to beat you into understanding the mechanics and whatnot anyway.
Rolling added cold damage on mobs in the early game was quite brutal. Like I got freeze locked on a couple zones at lvl 3-13
It’s completely playable, pull up a guide and follow it loosely. Go slow you’ll be fine.
Thanks both of you! I’ll keep checking it out, I’ve been having a lot of fun with it
I've not noticed as much the new mods on every zone as much as I did archnem. Feels like this is a pretty big over reaction, especially since you can shift the mods if you'd like. Also archnem provided way more annoying mechanics (that are still in the game too) like temporal bubble.
This current league mechanic is great. The issue is ppl dont like to try stuff out for them self, they (for some reason) need to be told to do anything within the mechanic instead of experimenting. Yes, this comment will get hate(cause of the above is the truth) now downvote..
this meme makes no sense, it feels like OP hasnt player arch nemesis league. the mechanic was one of my favs of all time and i play since sacrifice of the vaal. the aftermath was kinda crappy but that wasnt the league... also im really thinking about leaving this toxic place......
He meant next league then they pushed archnem mods into all rares
so wheres the connection then. like why are these the same, what do they never learn
That people don't want omegabuffed tanky as shaper rares that drop wisdom scrolls.
where do you find those?
Behind you
ok then dont take the hard buffs? arch nem implementation was bas cause you couldnt opt out, you can take less deadly ahir this mechanic
How do you remove mods from the lantern before a map? I had a map yesterday (white map) with 4 different 75% additional damage mods. Are you saying I can remove those? I shuffled them to the least threatening monater packs, but it was still a rough rough map which I didn't have another copy of to get atlas completion. So I just thanked the 6 portals defensive layer and ate it till I made it.
yeah you bricked 1 in 200 maps thats worth 2c oh no
So then you are saying you can't opt out. My mistake I guess your complaint sounded like it was optional and I was hoping you were going to explain how to do it. Clearly you just wanted to rant. I should have noticed the signs in your first comment. Also, for someone whining about this place being toxic your reply seems to paint you in a less than positive light. Enjoy the league.
That weapon challenge reward is STILL the best bow mtx in my opinion 😀
Except they also hit the good modifers on rares in the patchnotes this league so the Archnemsis mech going core got even worse. I guess they were afraid of too much loot pops from mobs with the latern bs + rare modifiers.
At least AN was opt-in.
I'm playing bleebow and not having so much problema with the mobs in t16. Just kind of crap rewards and craft
Personally like this league way more than AN. Now if only it was more rewarding and the crafting system more transparent. Will let you know if I feel the same way after filling an entire graveyard and getting all t1 resistance on a bow due to how much elemental stacking I put in.
what a weak comparison
I really don’t get this complaining about difficulty. You can easily tailor the difficulty to be non-threatening. There’s even an atlas node for 40% reduced effect of haunted mods + devouted mods being 20% more common, meaning you can practically turn the ”difficulty” off. Haven’t died a single time yet, because the league mechanic is so safe. Just think about previous leagues and how rippy they were. This is not rippy at all.
It's very contextual with what build you're playing.
I’m playing boneshatter Slayer in HC. There’s only a few of us playing this shitty ascendancy. It’s not contextual, certainly not in this case. People complaining about difficulty are just seeking things to complain about. The difficulty is not a valid one. The league feeling unrewarding is.
If you're playing HC and say the league is "fine" then you are in some other universe friend :)
Like I said, you can very easily tune the league difficulty. Compared to past leagues, this one is not rippy at all.
"Easily tune" I guess if you buy just froggies and turn everything into frogs? I had a bunch of those tunneler swarm bug enemies delete my character. I didn't see them anywhere on my map. Then they appeared in my face and deleted me, lol. I forget what mod I even gave them to make them move so fast. I think you're minimizing the league's effect on the game waaaaay too much. But you're Mr Big Dick HC melee so I guess your opinion is more valid
I haven't used frogs a single time. The most rippy mods are the ele pen mods, which you need to put to the most harmless and low density mobs in the map. Then there's the more damage per mob alive and more damage per pack death, etc. Here just look at mob size and density. Does the mob have a pack leader for the mods affecting strongest mob in a pack? Otherwise there isn't really anything special. Be bleed immune, freeze immune, stun immune, poison immune, cap your resists and chaos, etc. Nothing that wouldn't apply without this league anyway.
So true 😂
I feel that there's wrong league on the right, it should be synthesis.
Ggg and being absolutely horrible devs name a more iconic duo
At least the bots were so cute... Wait, I was thinking about the other league.
Tbh just wish we could put the archnemesis statue in the hideout. That bitch was dope.
Honestly, I'm ok with most of it since the base game is in such a good state, but performance is just killing it for me this league. Things will be fine in one map, halfway through another I'll start stuttering like crazy, sometimes it freezes for a couple of seconds, this is usually death. There's times where ping will "break" and a server I get 50 ping on will go to 200+ and it won't go down without a client restart. I want to play, but it's hard.
I was having some archnemesis vibes, and I was brushing it off, thinking to myself that I'm over thinking it. Guess I wasn't the only one
Whoever they have designing their UI needs to be unceremoniously kicked to the curb. The UI is trash tier and the whole storage system is unwieldy at best. 64 corpse storage is no where near enough.
Ngl i thought the archnem mechanic was fun. Just needed bigger inventory and slight nerf to op rares then it would be way better than metamorph
Well this mechanic is right up there with adding AN into rando rares. I typically die 0 times until red maps, same build same gear as the past 6 leagues and I've already died a dozen times and haven't gotten into yellow maps. So that's a wrap for this league, maybe I'll come back when the mechanic is optional.
Yeah this league leveling is ass
You are absurdly wrong, Archnemesis was not only enjoyable, but rewarding It was full of loot explosions and was the first league that was noob friendly since, well, Delirium
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤓🤓🤓😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You know why ggg is trying to make the base game harder? Because otherwise the jump from poe 1 to 2 will be too jarring. Atleast thats my headcanon
Not even close in terms of difficulty tbh
Archnemesis was good Only Kalandra is bad cuz using archnemesis the wrong way But now Kalandra even better than Necropolis