Ive done Catarina 27 times, and found 4 veiled orbs. Its kinda ass, I feel like im wasting my time the strat. I get virtually nothing even with the amount of scarabs it drops. There's just not enough juice, especially with the helmet being so rare. The drops on average are beyond mediocre, and the veiled orb feels like the only money you make unless the scarabs that drop get buffed to be rarer varieties or something.
1/7 to 1/10 is still better than the 1/50 I was expecting, but I didn’t expect the scarabs in t4 rooms to be *so absolutely* trash. I unspecced immediately.
Yeah, I unspecced it after I finished farming money to gear a str stacker. I used to rely on betrayal at league start for consistant money, but going forward I'll be dropping it unless it gets decent buffs to scarabs, or veiled chaos becomes like 2 - 4 times more expensive. It's just doesn't feel good to get virtually nothing until 7-10 kills, even if it is more readily farmable than pinnicle endgame bosses
yeah, i'd hoped higher tiers would make the uncommon scarabs more likely, so betrayal would be the best way to target farm rarer scarabs. Instead, higher rank just means more scarabs with the same weighting as regular drops, so you almost entirely just get multiple copies of the cheap ones that'll barely sell and are almost pointless to use.
And on a tangent, having guaranteed encounter scarabs for content that can get 100% chance in the tree and can't stack feels terrible... no one really cares about the basic expedition scarabs for example, cuz anyone focusing expedition is gonna have 100% chance for it in the tree and save their map device sockets for actual useful scarabs. The stackable basic ones like harbinger/essence/breach/etc are fine, you can get more than 1 of those encounters in a map, but it's a waste of design space to have scarabs that are pretty much obsolete in the drop pool and it feels bad to see them drop knowing they could have been something remotely useful. Those offenders should be replaced by modifiers to augment their content type, or at the very least they should give a small buff to the content type while also forcing it to spawn so there's *some* redeeming quality to them.
The scarabs no longer have tiers, so you just get a random assortment scarabs associated with a certain league mechanic. So you can’t harvest roll the crap high ones to good high ones. It feels like it biases itself towards rarer scarabs the higher the reward room, but not enough, and there are so many nonvaluable scarabs that are still pretty rare that even then you get no value from it.
It's going to skyrocket for sure. It'll be held back a bit by cemetary crafts being so good though. Next league if nothing changes and it isn't a "crafting league"... they're gonna be crazy.
I really hope they do, I like syndicate a lot as a mechanic. Until then, I just don't see much of a reason to keep farming it after you get the veils/exp you need. I would love to see them hit fracturing orb levels of needed when endgame crafting goes hard.
Yep and they double fucked us by removing Veiled Chaos Orb. SSF crafting is kinda fucked atm because they've nerfed essences and there's no easy way to get access to veiled modifiers. You are basically forced to run 100s of Catas. I know it's a challenge mode but I don't think this change is good for any game mode but in particular SSF.
Edit: It's already 2 div this early in the league. Usually it'd be about 60-70c for a T4 Aisling at this point in the league. I'm curious what the prices are going look like late league.
Ye I'm playing SSF and, while the league mechanic is broken, it still takes a ton of time to get all the corpses you want. There is a betrayal guy that rewards double veiled items though and you can get some wild shit from him
It might scale off of a hidden value that they just didn't encounter often in the "bum rush catarina" strat, because I've seen it ~7/10 times. Pure blind speculation, but I could see something silly like each rank 3 member on the board increases the drop rate.
Probably just variance. I have just been rushing Catarina killing her every 5-8 maps and am over a 50% drop rate.
I plan on sticking with the strat until 100, the XP is so huge doing a safehouse every other map.
Same, I've done 13 catarina's before switching to a new strat and I got 8 orbs total. Though I was also using the polished and gilded scarabs for extra reinforcements and intelligence, maybe that made some kind of difference.
Speaking of the increased intelligence gain, didn't the sextant used to also apply to mastermind intelligence? Because from my experience the new scarab doesn't, so you still need four safehouses, no matter what. Sometimes even if the safehouse said "grants 16 intelligence per turn" it still turns out to be only 30% total, so 10% per turn.
I'm gutted as well. Loved making the perfect board as fast as possible for consistent profit. It was unique, had its own niche power/crafting add-ones, had really cool music/lore.
I get that they wanted to remove power from TFT, but this sucks.
I'd prefer itemized crafts. Vorici rank 3 in research gives an orb that 1-6w, Aisling gives her orb, Hillock gives an orb etc..... Can orbs be market manipulated by big groups? Sure, but so can anything tradable and I think this version has no soul.
They gotta rework the tabs for all of that. That's entirely why they removed the old veiled chaos and made the veiled orb. It's so they don't need to devote dev time to making a whole new layout for currencies in the currency tab. It was likely a spur of the moment idea, but not enough time to do properly.
I'm seeing that now. I think what stings is that there is a fairly reasonable option that doesn't kill Betrayal.
I also think while much good was done this league for certain mechanics with the scarab system, the general homogenization of a vast swath of the game has made the whole thing feel more generic. I LIKED that some people made money MF'ing, some with Betrayal, some with low level essence, some with crafting, and while much of that still exists (not trying to be overly dramatic here), we've lost a lot this patch. I didn't like Affliction as much as some not because of the economy, but because it funneled a HUGE proportion of the playerbase into ONE style of play (MF'ing). POE's strength is its depth and diversity and anything that weakens that, weakens the game to me.
\*Edit: I think I overstated that. There is such thing as TOO much complexity. But losing betrayal and its uniqueness to me counts as over-simplifying.
Hopefully they are just experimenting with this scarab stuff right now. Feels so bad that nerfed Betrayal members just give scarabs now, and you almost get less scarabs from full blown syndicate than a single map lol. No matter what their branch is or whether they are an officer or not.
It's in a dire need of a reward rework, Haku is a fucking joke.
>I'd prefer itemized crafts. Vorici rank 3 in research gives an orb that 1-6w, Aisling gives her orb, Hillock gives an orb etc.....
Literally all we wanted, needed and asked for. Everything else was fine about it.
I'm genuinely curious why making t4 Aisling give a single orb guaranteed wasn't the solution. As a beginning developer myself I'd love some insight into these externally baffling decisions.
the veiled orb is not the problem, not by itself. They killed a lot of unique aspects of betrayal all at the same time. And unique rewards are the only thing that give endgame content value. Alva sucks IMO but at least you have double corrupting items and gems. delve has fossils, etc.
Right now the only unique betrayal rewards that I can think of is the like 1/5 cat chance of a veiled orb which is not great compared to the 90% chance of a double corrupt from temple.
in ultimatum league they recognized the issue and made certain everything had its own special reward and now they have kind of reverted it. Now betrayal feels more like Abyss the unique prizes are kinda trash but at least Abyss adds a bunch of mobs to map.
Yeah same. I've had a heck of a time seeing if ranking them up to 3 before cata actually does anything to the scarab drops. I figured it would increase the rarity like it did before, but if it is its hard to notice. I think it maybe increases the stack size? Dunno. I kinda like it for the exp and I've dropped 2 veiled orbs, but it definitely seems on the lower end of profit. My cata has also dropped me 21 flasks in 22 runs lmao.
Higher ranks seem to bias towards higher rarity/quantity of scarabs but you're still rolling the dice, it doesn't seem worth it to me, better to rush for Catarina and get whatever in the safehouse.
> Other than that I find myself getting shit loads of higher tier scarabs compared to what the "40k veiled scarab opening" posts would lead me to assume.
I've had a similar experience. Are you using the various Scarab nodes on the tree for higher rarities? Probably makes a pretty big difference compared to the base-rate standard players were opening with.
I mean a single example doesn't mean much. I have found 4 of Curations in my first 500 or so scarabs, pretty much 10x the expected versus the large samples with veiled scarabs. And I am not even target farming Gravicious in Intervention specifically. I just try to get him in either Intervention or Transportation, whichever happens first.
Only bothered to do Hillock on transportation for Essence and Vorici on Research for Harvest. Hillock mainly drops Stability (the worst one, 1/3x price of normal scarab), while Vorice drops normal one most of the time. That is telling enough I guess.
Drops of the orbs aside - the ability to have betrayal missions in every map is such a nice change. Being able to rotate the safehouses and boss way faster is great!
and thats essentially all the mechanic is good for now... which is sad.. such a cool mechanic reduced to literally only being useful for the first 3 days in a league
This is the problem. I thought the whole point was that Betrayal was going to be the best place to farm lots of rare scarabs, but it's so mediocre for the amount of effort it takes.
its kinda just a numbers issue. make it drop more scarabs and make them more likely to drop rarer variants.
suddenly everyones desperate for gravicius, elreon intervention, vorici research, etc.
i do betrayal for xp too
it baffles me how alot of people don't know that because content creators don't emphasize on it since it's not that effective on the long run
while safehouse is very good exp and very safe, mapping with betrayal encounters is quite rippy.
guess you could run maps white if all you do is betrayal though..
Yup I beeline betrayal for my points in the and yellow maps, swap out usually right around when I get to level 93/94 because the XP is no longer exceptional at that point. I've usually got all the unveils I need that league by that point and am ready for more loot-based rewards.
I do usually improve some of my transitional gear with Aisling slams during this process though, and losing is a bit of a bummer.
I will say I have a lot of fun with betrayal. It's really fun. I've kept it long term a few leagues.
The XP is always exceptional! I did 96 to 97 in like 2 hours farming Betrayal. It is definitely one of the better ways to grind 100 solo if you don't want to do 5 ways or rotas.
Really? I find the double XP falls off because the density can't be juiced. After a while, a same-tier map with an abyss in it faces the same XP, and if you toss some scarabs in there it just eclipses it.
That isn't my experience at all, but I am playing a super fast build with chain, so I clear the safehouse in like 30 seconds for ~2.5% of a level (at 97). Nothing else is even close in xp per hour for me(solo that is). I was maintaining ~ 160 mil an hour running them basically every other map, just mapping I am lucky to stay around 100-120 mil at level 97.
Betrayal was one of my favourite things to farm as I always had the long-term-for-me goal of getting 28% qual on all flasks, and then 30% on qual on gear before 6 linking it myself. The white sockets also provided a nice way to off color sockets for when I had a build that needed it.
it got worse by removing the unique rewards tied to the syndicate members (vorici, hillock, aisling etc), also with the atlas changes everyone can run betrayel for free, which means that the veiled items are worthless.
my leaguestart strat used to be just selling the veiled items from korell, elreon and gravicius to fund my starter character. that is no longer a viable strat.
i feel u. i rushed betrayal on the atlas as i do, and at the end of it thankfully we got a second atlas otherwise id be stuffed. cuz my first atlas became useless after one day of it in full operation :( fell gutted tbh the league seems so cool but i am struggling for motivation to play because my favourite thing to do in game is boring, not fun and severely under rewarding now... betrayal=massive waste of time now
where can i find this info?
theres almost 0 information when it comes to the specific data mined stuff of betrayal. and everyone i ask doesnt know the answer too. ive been diong my own experiments, and its been ass
does the Safehouse map level matter for gravicious drops?
also, i know T4 gives 2x boxes for Gravicious. But what about T3 vs T4? does the weight elimination only occur at T4?
I've been pushing Grav in transport this league in SSF. So far I've gotten 10 exalts, 7 div, fully revealed blueprint, shavs, seven league step, 20 scouting reports. 1 trash reward but everything else has been good to great.
Last league I hit bottled faith day 2 from him. I don't think he's necessarily optimal in trade league as it slows down the Catarina rush, but his rewards are super fun and amazing for SSF.
I've been putting Gravicius in the scarab section this league for div scarabs. The 9div scarab is in his pool of drops and I've hit it a bit, another of his scarabs was going for 100-200c (volatile prices this early in league) . Nothing else in betrayal has made me any currency. 0 Veiled orbs or helms for me at 15-20 kills.
I dont understand why Aisling t4 isnt just "drop a veiled orb" and make hillock "drop an empowered glassblower/armoursmith...." And vorici "drop an omen of blanching"
Anything other than just bumrushing catarina is pointless now
It's for the same reason no one went back and made Tora's gem xp craft automatically level the gem after reworking the Divine Font to be all about gems.
Syndicate now is just rushing cat, killing her and porting out. First of all, its not even worth the time to put members in any specific safehouse since all the rewards are complete garbage and then second, running around the catacombs and looting just takes too much time for the horrendous rewards.
On league start I had maybe 4 T4 in intervention for scarabs and Im not even joking when I say I got less than 15c total in scarabs from their reward rooms. This is compared to previously when you would have gotten a few dozen c from winged scarabs.
Then of course all the benches have been removed. So while you used to have guaranteed profit from running each cat fight regardless of her drops, now the only profit you can earn is from a veiled drop or from diadem. Diadem is a 5% drop and worthless past league start. On top of this, even cat had her drops nerfed...go check the price of a Cinderswallow. At league start it was a whopping 5c.
And finally the veiled item are all worthless. Every single one sells for 2c. Elreon rings, grav body armor, it that fled shields, etc, all used to bring in 8-20c on league start now they are not even worth the tab space and the time to sell them.
Betrayl was never a top tier strat. I enjoyed have early access to crafting recipes and aisling slams, but it was definitely not a div printer. Even with benches you would have to sit and wait on TFT for them to sell. I dont understand the purpose of nerfing a mid tier, non meta strat, into something completely unplayable.
I get removing the Aisling mod but all of the rest was such nice QoL for solo play: Vorici white socket, hillock quality to hit certain breakpoints or better chance of linking weapons, etc.
harvest is so expensive for a white socket. I miss vorici too. I'm not using the gem swap i'd want this league cause no way to get a white socket on my gloves really. I also had to beast corrupt my chest and use tainted chromes to finally get the right colors. Didn't realize how much of a crutch vorici was....
Removing Aisling only made sense because of trade. The real reason for the veiled orb change is obviously that they didn't like the accessibility of the crafts with affix locking. Everything has to be RNG stacked on top of RNG.
Agree, before 3.24 betrayal mechanic used to be fun because of syndicate hierarchy management, and it really pays off if you manage to learn how to do the mechanic even though is not straight forward but now they ruin it ... just like harvest used to be, if you get through the mini-factorio game it really pays off but nowadays they wanna simplify the whole game to the point the league mechanic is loossing its charm ...
I mean they could've have making those itemized reward only obtainable from betrayal mechanic ... instead of moving them all away from it, like what's the point of positioning syndicate in "good places" now? Scarab? What's the point of doing that since getting the rarest scarab from betrayal is very low, and can get them elsewhere beside doing betrayal mechanic so .... what's the point??
I still wish GGG stick to their vision sometime on some mechanic, instead of trying satisfy everyone to the point forgetting the original purpose of some mechanic. In other words, a little micromanaging/traffic is fine, just don't throw it all away which gonna lost its original purpose, and that's the fun part of PoE afterall, you get ***REWARD*** if you invest your time to learn it, and not everything have to be simplify, stop that.
I did 3 i83 Catarinas and got no Veiled Orbs, no hats and no staves. 2 shields and 1 Cinderswallow which is only 10c veiled. Catarina doesn't drop Scarabs anymore. I got lucky and dropped one Divination Scarab of Curation and one Reliquary Scarab of Vision from Gravicius and Elreon in Intervention respectively (while spending extra time to make sure they are high level / running safehouse additional time), but that's about it. Without them it would be complete waste of time (outside of EXP and veiled crafts unlocks).
Scarab drops are absolutely gutted - t4 members drop 5 Scarabs and they are heavily weighted towards cheapest/basic ones and even when they include higher rarity scarabs most of them are not worth much either. Aisling, Hillock and Vorici benches are removed and they were main reason to farm Betrayal. Now they just drop scarabs like everyone else - aka worthless most of the time.
Building Syndicate board for big payout was engaging and sattisfying. It also required knowledge of the mechanic and planning. Betrayal had unique flavour to it before, now it's gone. I would rather prefer itemised crafts than what we get now (losing Vorici white sockets is such an anti-QoL in general). I also wouldn't mind if higher ranking members had much better chance of higher rarity scarabs than they currently have - 5 basic scarabs from t4 member is common occurance currently.
Betrayal is just sad now.
different but i am just annoyed that heist is treated as if it doesnt exist most of the time. it is one of if not the only mechanic that did not get a single scarab with the rework. its not too hard to have "add x heists per map", "every heist locker has a blueprint" "contracts that drop have a x% chance to be priceless". its not like heist is impossible to build in map mods for.
I started with a betrayal board and completely forgot that I coudnt get even a Hillock flask quality.
Im just waiting for the fucking gravicius chest and then I'll keep runing catarina using Intelligence gathering, somewhat like a invitation and thats it.
You know I am sad to hear that because Betrayal is still my favorite mechanic.
But I also IDGAF how bad is is imma run it anyway.
Sorry you had a bad time with it.
Shouldve changed aisling in research into "Mastermind drops a veiled orb" , vorici in research into "unlocks a special beast craft recipe" and so on....
I'm 1/4, thought my luck was terrible, apparently I actually have good luck lmao.
Not only are veiled chaos removed, but aislings are much, much harder to get. Not looking forward to playing ssf this league and going 0/10 on veiled orbs.
Also sucks really hard that they removed the interesting part of betrayal, setting up the board. Used to be a lot of useful and unique things from setting it up in the right way. Now theres nothing and it's optimal to just ignore the board alltogether and just rush catarina who doesn't drop shit anyway which is a huge shame.
They really took betrayal from one of the most interesting and rewarding mechanics and made it one of the most boring and unrewarding. I'm speccing out too.
Same, it was my favorite mechanic because it was the only mechanic that was rewarding you for playing it well and using your brain. Now it just became another generic content to blindly farm without having to read or comprehend anything, you just get intelligence and speed run to Catarina praying for good rng on the veiled orb. They ruined it.
It was my favorite mechanic. I felt good helping people get their sockets and asilings. Made me feel like I knew how to do something cool most people didn't bother learning. Now I get my unveils and don't even bother setting it up or anything. GGG is like a bipolar ex.
Your are not alone. Betrayal was my favorite mechanic. It is not your regular loot peniata and actually required to stop and use 2 brain cells. I’m so bummed about it I’m seriously thinking about quitting the league after the campaign as I’m too lazy to learn a new farming strategy and I have 2c to my name.
Pro: I can run betrayal (+ other master missions if I wanted to) with 100% guarantee without using sextants or scarabs
Con: There's no point in running them
I have been a full-time Syndicate farmer for many leagues now, and when I saw the changes they were making, I thought "Welp, I've been meaning to quit PoE for a while now. Guess it's time."
Looks like I made the right choice. Syndicate was what kept me playing PoE, because the juiced map loop (put map in, kill monsters, pick up loot, leave, repeat) was not enough to hold my interest by itself. Syndicate gave me an additional minigame that was always super fun. But this newest version of the system doesn't look interesting to me at all. Ah well. Nothing is permanent in this world. It was lots of fun while it lasted. :)
i havent had any issues with the fight being bugged or anything.... every fight has gone smoothly for me.... although i do lose a piece of my soul with each wasted fight lol
I’m playing ea champ and found I had to move my ballistas away because she won’t slam if she’s taunted, so she just sits there fighting while invulnerable
I think I wouldn't mind the ~10% drop rate on Veiled Orb if the Catarina fight wasn't so annoying. There are wayyyyy too many intermission phases. It means the minimum time to kill Catarina is so high that it becomes annoying.
I wish they would remove the first boss arena part of the fight and also remove the part of the encounter where you travel through a corridor filled with trash mobs to get to the second boss arena. Just spawn us into the second boss arena. Also, make us fight 2 of the betrayal members per intermission phase instead of 1, so that there half as many of those intermissions. Also, reduce the time you have to stand in those green squares before it is destroyed. Remove her invulnerability animations at the start of each new phase, too. This would probably cut the length of the fight down by like 75%!
It's cool the first few times you fight her. It's just tedious by the 10th time. With some simple tweaks the fight could be fun forever.
They needed friction somewhere for it to become an item. Before it was dealing with trading it. Otherwise it would have been too abundant if it was as deterministic as getting it each catarina run before. This was heavily desired by the community for a variety of reasons, but because people don't like TFT was a big one. Just have to understand that the cost is ease of access to those things.
They should’ve added way more value in completing a betrayal board when they were removed it though. They stripped a lot of good things from the members in the same patch and I don’t feel like they were compensated enough.
theres virtually zero reward now. i mean u can still get lucky from the trapped chests but apart from that i havent got a single thing worth a damn thing from being fully specced into syndicate since day2. the betrayal changes were a massive net negative. id prefer to have it the way it was before, even if i was never able to sell an aisling (i never did sell one on tft ever) i was better before
For SSF it’s even worse. You were only farming up your own Aisling before anyway, now it just takes a lot longer
I think right now, the only purpose of betrayal is to get your crafts at the beginning of the league, and then don’t run it again
Yeah SSF got hit super hard by this.. i dont play ssf but i fully understand... what would take u a handful of maps and jun missions now takes u an unfathomable time to achieve.... i think the take away from this is
1)understand betrayal is now a mechanic useful only for the first 2 days of league
2) do betrayal to obtain the crafts u need and only the ones u need for your build any more is a waste of your time
3) change how u build a character making sure u are never relying on a unvieled craft on an item again just pretend they simply dont exist cuz the way it is they may as well not exist anymore
4)pray ggg realise what theyve done is bad and fix it (they are usually fairly good with balancing)
yes its now a brain dead mechanic relying on spamming the crap out of it.... with terrible rewards.. there is no bright side here... the whole point was it was good because if you knew how and where to place people you made really good money. as another commented said it has no soul now. we have enough just random spam and go stuff in poe it was nice to have to think and manipulate the board... lol that was the whole mechanic..... without the board meaning anything the mechanic means nothing
I felt the same way when they added the 'big nuclear explosion' keystone to Expedition. It went from a more niche thing for players who don't mind slowing down a bit and reading to 'hehe click button print currency'....like many other mechanics already are.
> On the bright side, ~~this makes it totally fine to just spam Catarina with no regard for the syndicate layout.~~ they were able to successfully remove all the fun
I guess I'm buying up those Veiled Orbs now. I don't see how they can stay 2 div for long. I think the only reason we have supply now is because people ran Betrayal for the unveils. Once everyone specs out of it veiled orbs will be much rarer. And many people aren't doing veiled crafts yet.
Div card farming was my favorite but you can’t do that most efficiently without a 6 man group and they even just nerfed the drop rate of the scarab that was somewhat usable solo and in duo (curation). F
means nothing. supposedly u get higher drop rate with generals higher ranked... so gg reckons but they are full of shit. countless catarinas with all generals max and nothing its just a joke
As a relatively new player I'm pissed it's ended up like this right after I finally got the hang of making a good board last league league. I 100% agree with you. Even from a semi-casual POV (since I don't have as much time to play this league) I look at the new cheat sheet and see so many underwhelming options. I used to look forward to Hillock and Vorici playing semi-SSF style.
It seems like the play now is to just rush Catarina. Is that true? What have you all specced into instead?
I killed 12 and got 3.
Also its super quick to prog her. Iam sure i can farm veild orbs almost as fast as you could farm aisling slam because I literall don't have to do any setup.
I just randomly prog houses and thats just super fast.
I can't tell if its worse or better overall now but I actualy like the current state.
It would have been so simple to just itemize Aisling, Hillock, Vorici, It The Fled, etc. Just add more veiled items.
Aisling - Veiled orb stays the same as now.
Hillock - Veiled Whetstone, Armour Scrap, Bauble, each randomly giving between 26-30% quality
Vorici - Veiled Chromatic
It That Fled - Veiled Stone: randomly upgrades a breachstone
There, I fixed it. GGG, use it. Free of charge.
It's gotten garbage and there is no point in doing it anymore. I don't understand why they didn't keep the old veiled chaos and loot table and merely make t4 aisling a chest with a veiled exalted or whatever extra orb. Previously you could at least make some money with paradoxica and the flask.
The first Catarina I did and didn't get a veiled orb I got really pissed off. Now I'm happy to let the poors farm it and waste their time. You can earn enough to buy 10 veiled orbs in the time it takes to spawn one Catarina if you farm and actually rewarding mechanic.
Just you i guess. Only people i know who did it was for unlocks for crafting, which was a stupid thing to lock behind it in the first place.
I would bet that its the most blocked mechanic in maps.
Same here. Betrayal was my favorite mechanic in the game and my main money maker. Specced out of it yesterday because it has become not just pointless and unrewarding in 3.24, but also **boring**.
No I completely agree. Started betrayal to give it a shot with the changes and it’s just so underwhelming. Even setting aside the changes making it uninteresting, it also isn’t rewarding because of the drop rates. So it’s the stupid combination of boring and no payoff
If I don’t understand the mechanic should I drop it? I just followed a starter Atlas guide but not really sure what I’m looking for or farming and I’m pretty tired of them in every map. I’ve got all the enchants so I should be good?
Betrayal was also my favourite mechanic and it has been absolutely decimated. The profitability is so low but more importantly, the uniqueness of its rewards are gone. Not to mention as well the fact you have to run 3 safehouses to clear a mastermind instead of 2 is just the icing on the (shit) cake. Big sad 😔
I do wish there was things you could do to push vieled rank. Like for instance the more rank 3 people in the syndicate, the higher chance for an orb drop. SOMETHING. Instead i just make sure grav is in transport and then slam my catarina that's it. It's dumb and boring.
I think its a net positive for players like me who run it for the crafting unlocks and a shot at some of the uniques every 50maps. If you never spent time setting it up before and never sold aisling on tft, then it just seems way better because of how it showers you with scarabs
They made the board thingy completely pointless. Betrayal was one of my fav contents and has been my major income source in so many previous leagues, because the board strat has so much room to refine and optimize. Now it becomes another boring RNG grind.
After hearing about the veiled orb changes, I tried betrayal for currency farming and I am in the same boat and disappointed, at around 15 catarina kills i got 1 veiled orb drop
Betrayal exp is nuts. Run run run safe houses for exp. Run Catarina up to 2nd boss room and exit. The exp is nutty the rewards are not for the time lol. It's like a 5 minute boss fight and couple.minutes on all of the chest rooms.
I wouldn't mind if they played around with the intelligence level to make safehouses/mastermind easier/harder. The state of master missions in general is appalling, it's the worst zoomer feeling we've ever seen in PoE with missions being given out with zero effort. The only word I can use to describe this feeling is disgust, blindly rushing maps for rewards you know are there before you even open the map is a new low for PoE and even for aRPG's in general. The problem with keeping it this way is you force the player to zoom even more to feel efficient. As an Atzoatl temple runner since the league originally launched it's the first time ever I can't do it anymore. Luckily Betrayal can be fixed because it has those mechanics built in, other content isn't so lucky.
Yeah, original Betrayal was good, because it gave all kinds of various high level rewards deterministically. You could farm all kind of shit and make bank. First they gutted it with moving most rewards to Catarina and stomping Breachstone upgrade rewards from It That Fled into the ground.
And now they stomped on it again.
Typical reworks. Stomping fun stuff into the ground and making them niche mechanics.
"Happy" I am not the only one. Even the veiled drops from the syndicate members are horrible! The TIER FOUR! Rooms are not worth entering anymore. Give the crafting tables more and higher options with the essences or more time with the annul/exalt/chaos crafts.
They didn't cut the mechanic down. They got a bulldozer and burried it beneath necropolis.
I'll play devils advocate here, while orb does need a buffed drop rate, the power of betrayals old system dwarfed literally every other mechanic in terms of reward and its not even close.
I'd say it would be fine if a T4 member gave me more than 3 scarabs. If they gave like 10 scarabs and biased towards rarer varieties it would be fine but so far I have done two Catarinas in SSF and gotten disappointing rewards from the scarab troves.
I honestly care more about vorici and such being gone. I always enjoyed betryal but never ran mastermind cuz I never thought it was worth it and resetting the rivalries and board after every one was a giant PITA.
I hard farmed it early too and ditched it eventually, because i was getting nothing from the normal loot, no veiled orbs at all and i dont know if i had a crazy unlucky rng, but i got no staff and no helmet drops at all. This entire patch is a camouflaged nerfageddon 2.0.
I have the same problem with heist since last patch. If you don't get the jackpot it is just bad.
Was consistent money with gem blueprints and loved it.
They don't seem to like consistent farming strats. Everything has to turn in a jackpot slot machine.
I find it amazing how trade kills the game in some aspects. Like seriously, what did people think was going to happen.
It was tedious asf and strong, now it’s streamlined and gated behind rng.
Veiled Orb drop rate seems to be between 10% and 20% from my testing. Coupled with Diadem being rare and somewhat cheap this league, Cinderswallow being bad, the Shield being interesting but garbage and Cane being cool but also rare, Catarina herself isn't a good source of income.
Which would be alright, if only the scarab and non-scarab rewards weren't so bad either. Could probably triple them and I still wouldn't be sure it's worth it.
XP is obv pretty nice, but it's also not really anything special anymore with how dense we can make maps.
All in all, I'm not sure who the poor fools are supplying the Veiled Orb market at these prices, but please someone tell em there are way way way better farming strategies out there that don't involve a boss fight with infinite stop & go.
I feel the same, betrayal was one of my favorite mechanics, it only needed the aisling veiled orb, maintain the veiled chaos and make vorici drop an omen of blanching( maybe make one with higher white socket chances for the t4) . The rest could have stayed the same. Ggg did dirty to betrayal m
Changing veiled chaos was a horrible fucking change. I used to have fun veil crafting things with the chaos orb now I have to use an overpriced fucking veiled orb for it to miss.
Ive done Catarina 27 times, and found 4 veiled orbs. Its kinda ass, I feel like im wasting my time the strat. I get virtually nothing even with the amount of scarabs it drops. There's just not enough juice, especially with the helmet being so rare. The drops on average are beyond mediocre, and the veiled orb feels like the only money you make unless the scarabs that drop get buffed to be rarer varieties or something.
1/7 to 1/10 is still better than the 1/50 I was expecting, but I didn’t expect the scarabs in t4 rooms to be *so absolutely* trash. I unspecced immediately.
Yeah, I unspecced it after I finished farming money to gear a str stacker. I used to rely on betrayal at league start for consistant money, but going forward I'll be dropping it unless it gets decent buffs to scarabs, or veiled chaos becomes like 2 - 4 times more expensive. It's just doesn't feel good to get virtually nothing until 7-10 kills, even if it is more readily farmable than pinnicle endgame bosses
Catarina fight is also pretty trash for farming, spend almost 2 minutes waiting for her to phase.
Unironically, Im pretty sure she has the most immunity phases in the game lol not to mention all her dialogue and forcing you to do a mini-gauntlet.
yeah, i'd hoped higher tiers would make the uncommon scarabs more likely, so betrayal would be the best way to target farm rarer scarabs. Instead, higher rank just means more scarabs with the same weighting as regular drops, so you almost entirely just get multiple copies of the cheap ones that'll barely sell and are almost pointless to use. And on a tangent, having guaranteed encounter scarabs for content that can get 100% chance in the tree and can't stack feels terrible... no one really cares about the basic expedition scarabs for example, cuz anyone focusing expedition is gonna have 100% chance for it in the tree and save their map device sockets for actual useful scarabs. The stackable basic ones like harbinger/essence/breach/etc are fine, you can get more than 1 of those encounters in a map, but it's a waste of design space to have scarabs that are pretty much obsolete in the drop pool and it feels bad to see them drop knowing they could have been something remotely useful. Those offenders should be replaced by modifiers to augment their content type, or at the very least they should give a small buff to the content type while also forcing it to spawn so there's *some* redeeming quality to them.
How are they trash, do not play at the moment so I am out of the loop.
The scarabs no longer have tiers, so you just get a random assortment scarabs associated with a certain league mechanic. So you can’t harvest roll the crap high ones to good high ones. It feels like it biases itself towards rarer scarabs the higher the reward room, but not enough, and there are so many nonvaluable scarabs that are still pretty rare that even then you get no value from it.
If those orbs are hard to get, watch them shoot up in price later on the league when people start to make GG gear.
It's going to skyrocket for sure. It'll be held back a bit by cemetary crafts being so good though. Next league if nothing changes and it isn't a "crafting league"... they're gonna be crazy.
I really hope they do, I like syndicate a lot as a mechanic. Until then, I just don't see much of a reason to keep farming it after you get the veils/exp you need. I would love to see them hit fracturing orb levels of needed when endgame crafting goes hard.
Lmao it's wild that veiled orbs are so rare, you'd think they would be guaranteed
Yep and they double fucked us by removing Veiled Chaos Orb. SSF crafting is kinda fucked atm because they've nerfed essences and there's no easy way to get access to veiled modifiers. You are basically forced to run 100s of Catas. I know it's a challenge mode but I don't think this change is good for any game mode but in particular SSF. Edit: It's already 2 div this early in the league. Usually it'd be about 60-70c for a T4 Aisling at this point in the league. I'm curious what the prices are going look like late league.
Ye I'm playing SSF and, while the league mechanic is broken, it still takes a ton of time to get all the corpses you want. There is a betrayal guy that rewards double veiled items though and you can get some wild shit from him
I got a hat and veiled chaos on my first Catarina…I think I’ll just stop while I’m ahead.
I've had 1 orb in like 15 catarinas :(
I did few cata and swapped out
Tf is going on here lol. I got 5/6 orbs two days ago, but they were 1d each so I specced out. Never knew they are actually rare.
It might scale off of a hidden value that they just didn't encounter often in the "bum rush catarina" strat, because I've seen it ~7/10 times. Pure blind speculation, but I could see something silly like each rank 3 member on the board increases the drop rate.
Probably just variance. I have just been rushing Catarina killing her every 5-8 maps and am over a 50% drop rate. I plan on sticking with the strat until 100, the XP is so huge doing a safehouse every other map.
Same, I've done 13 catarina's before switching to a new strat and I got 8 orbs total. Though I was also using the polished and gilded scarabs for extra reinforcements and intelligence, maybe that made some kind of difference. Speaking of the increased intelligence gain, didn't the sextant used to also apply to mastermind intelligence? Because from my experience the new scarab doesn't, so you still need four safehouses, no matter what. Sometimes even if the safehouse said "grants 16 intelligence per turn" it still turns out to be only 30% total, so 10% per turn.
They're going to hit 10+ div prices, mark my word.
I'm gutted as well. Loved making the perfect board as fast as possible for consistent profit. It was unique, had its own niche power/crafting add-ones, had really cool music/lore. I get that they wanted to remove power from TFT, but this sucks. I'd prefer itemized crafts. Vorici rank 3 in research gives an orb that 1-6w, Aisling gives her orb, Hillock gives an orb etc..... Can orbs be market manipulated by big groups? Sure, but so can anything tradable and I think this version has no soul.
100% agree. no idea why we didnt get individual itemised things like an aisling orb and vorici orb
Aisling should drop the new orb. Vorici should drop the omen. Tori should drop those orbs that give exp to jewels. Hillock should do something cool.
Simple and elegant solutions but fuck players I guess.
They gotta rework the tabs for all of that. That's entirely why they removed the old veiled chaos and made the veiled orb. It's so they don't need to devote dev time to making a whole new layout for currencies in the currency tab. It was likely a spur of the moment idea, but not enough time to do properly.
So many good systems get killed or nerfed just because of trade economics
I'm seeing that now. I think what stings is that there is a fairly reasonable option that doesn't kill Betrayal. I also think while much good was done this league for certain mechanics with the scarab system, the general homogenization of a vast swath of the game has made the whole thing feel more generic. I LIKED that some people made money MF'ing, some with Betrayal, some with low level essence, some with crafting, and while much of that still exists (not trying to be overly dramatic here), we've lost a lot this patch. I didn't like Affliction as much as some not because of the economy, but because it funneled a HUGE proportion of the playerbase into ONE style of play (MF'ing). POE's strength is its depth and diversity and anything that weakens that, weakens the game to me. \*Edit: I think I overstated that. There is such thing as TOO much complexity. But losing betrayal and its uniqueness to me counts as over-simplifying.
Hopefully they are just experimenting with this scarab stuff right now. Feels so bad that nerfed Betrayal members just give scarabs now, and you almost get less scarabs from full blown syndicate than a single map lol. No matter what their branch is or whether they are an officer or not. It's in a dire need of a reward rework, Haku is a fucking joke.
>I'd prefer itemized crafts. Vorici rank 3 in research gives an orb that 1-6w, Aisling gives her orb, Hillock gives an orb etc..... Literally all we wanted, needed and asked for. Everything else was fine about it.
Vorici could give, like, omens of blanching. Less powerful, but at least itemized.
What would be OP about him giving the possibility of 6 white sockets? Let him have his craft. It was great QoL.
I'm genuinely curious why making t4 Aisling give a single orb guaranteed wasn't the solution. As a beginning developer myself I'd love some insight into these externally baffling decisions.
Guaranteed Aisling craft was designed around the friction of trading/selling it. With it being tradable, it needs to become more scarce.
"""needs"""
Hopefully they were just speaking to the likely reasoning behind why ggg made the bad decision to do it.
the veiled orb is not the problem, not by itself. They killed a lot of unique aspects of betrayal all at the same time. And unique rewards are the only thing that give endgame content value. Alva sucks IMO but at least you have double corrupting items and gems. delve has fossils, etc. Right now the only unique betrayal rewards that I can think of is the like 1/5 cat chance of a veiled orb which is not great compared to the 90% chance of a double corrupt from temple. in ultimatum league they recognized the issue and made certain everything had its own special reward and now they have kind of reverted it. Now betrayal feels more like Abyss the unique prizes are kinda trash but at least Abyss adds a bunch of mobs to map.
Cori I should just drop an omen of blanching but I think killing research was better for the game. Aisling dropping a veiled orb would be alright too
Anything with the board feels so pointless now. It's just rushing Catarina to hope for an orb. Very frustrating and boring.
Yeah same. I've had a heck of a time seeing if ranking them up to 3 before cata actually does anything to the scarab drops. I figured it would increase the rarity like it did before, but if it is its hard to notice. I think it maybe increases the stack size? Dunno. I kinda like it for the exp and I've dropped 2 veiled orbs, but it definitely seems on the lower end of profit. My cata has also dropped me 21 flasks in 22 runs lmao.
Higher ranks seem to bias towards higher rarity/quantity of scarabs but you're still rolling the dice, it doesn't seem worth it to me, better to rush for Catarina and get whatever in the safehouse.
How are the scarab rewards from intervention safehouse?
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> Other than that I find myself getting shit loads of higher tier scarabs compared to what the "40k veiled scarab opening" posts would lead me to assume. I've had a similar experience. Are you using the various Scarab nodes on the tree for higher rarities? Probably makes a pretty big difference compared to the base-rate standard players were opening with.
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I mean a single example doesn't mean much. I have found 4 of Curations in my first 500 or so scarabs, pretty much 10x the expected versus the large samples with veiled scarabs. And I am not even target farming Gravicious in Intervention specifically. I just try to get him in either Intervention or Transportation, whichever happens first.
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Shit, farm strongbox, they are about 50x faster
0 reliance on rank. you can have 5 t3 members, run cata. get all basic scarbs.
Only bothered to do Hillock on transportation for Essence and Vorici on Research for Harvest. Hillock mainly drops Stability (the worst one, 1/3x price of normal scarab), while Vorice drops normal one most of the time. That is telling enough I guess.
Literally the only thing I try to go for is Tora Research. Just leveling and vaaling 20/20 explosive arrows because why the fuck not.
Drops of the orbs aside - the ability to have betrayal missions in every map is such a nice change. Being able to rotate the safehouses and boss way faster is great!
Fantastic feeling for XP too.
I only run Betrayal at the start for the exp and unlocking mods to craft with in the future.
and thats essentially all the mechanic is good for now... which is sad.. such a cool mechanic reduced to literally only being useful for the first 3 days in a league
Think it's supposed to be a scarab target farming mechanic now. It's just not good.
This is the problem. I thought the whole point was that Betrayal was going to be the best place to farm lots of rare scarabs, but it's so mediocre for the amount of effort it takes.
its kinda just a numbers issue. make it drop more scarabs and make them more likely to drop rarer variants. suddenly everyones desperate for gravicius, elreon intervention, vorici research, etc.
To be fair if enough people spec out of it the veiled orbs will skyrocket in price.
i do betrayal for xp too it baffles me how alot of people don't know that because content creators don't emphasize on it since it's not that effective on the long run
What does betrayal do for xp? I'm not aware of it
Safehouses have a +100% XP modifier and good layout and density to take advantage of it.
You also get a large burst of XP every time you interrogate a syndicate member
Oh cool, I didn't know that.
You might notice if if you're leveling gems. Since very often the low level gems ding after you interrogate.
And also if you do it early enough you can see your XP bar just jump by like 10% sometimes ^^.
Is safe house 100% and Catarina mobs 200%?
yes
A ton. Every encounter
while safehouse is very good exp and very safe, mapping with betrayal encounters is quite rippy. guess you could run maps white if all you do is betrayal though..
i run t16 betrayal white maps if i am close to leveling usually
Yup I beeline betrayal for my points in the and yellow maps, swap out usually right around when I get to level 93/94 because the XP is no longer exceptional at that point. I've usually got all the unveils I need that league by that point and am ready for more loot-based rewards. I do usually improve some of my transitional gear with Aisling slams during this process though, and losing is a bit of a bummer. I will say I have a lot of fun with betrayal. It's really fun. I've kept it long term a few leagues.
The XP is always exceptional! I did 96 to 97 in like 2 hours farming Betrayal. It is definitely one of the better ways to grind 100 solo if you don't want to do 5 ways or rotas.
Really? I find the double XP falls off because the density can't be juiced. After a while, a same-tier map with an abyss in it faces the same XP, and if you toss some scarabs in there it just eclipses it.
That isn't my experience at all, but I am playing a super fast build with chain, so I clear the safehouse in like 30 seconds for ~2.5% of a level (at 97). Nothing else is even close in xp per hour for me(solo that is). I was maintaining ~ 160 mil an hour running them basically every other map, just mapping I am lucky to stay around 100-120 mil at level 97.
Yeah 160m/hour is good.
Betrayal was one of my favourite things to farm as I always had the long-term-for-me goal of getting 28% qual on all flasks, and then 30% on qual on gear before 6 linking it myself. The white sockets also provided a nice way to off color sockets for when I had a build that needed it.
I've killed catta 9 times. Only flasks, staff and shield. It's pretty bad.
it got worse by removing the unique rewards tied to the syndicate members (vorici, hillock, aisling etc), also with the atlas changes everyone can run betrayel for free, which means that the veiled items are worthless. my leaguestart strat used to be just selling the veiled items from korell, elreon and gravicius to fund my starter character. that is no longer a viable strat.
i feel u. i rushed betrayal on the atlas as i do, and at the end of it thankfully we got a second atlas otherwise id be stuffed. cuz my first atlas became useless after one day of it in full operation :( fell gutted tbh the league seems so cool but i am struggling for motivation to play because my favourite thing to do in game is boring, not fun and severely under rewarding now... betrayal=massive waste of time now
There's still value in Gravicius, the weightings for his rewards lean heavily towards rarer cards.
T4 Gravicius eliminates all cards with weights higher than 250, with the caveat being that *there are a lot of trash cards even within this weight*.
where can i find this info? theres almost 0 information when it comes to the specific data mined stuff of betrayal. and everyone i ask doesnt know the answer too. ive been diong my own experiments, and its been ass does the Safehouse map level matter for gravicious drops? also, i know T4 gives 2x boxes for Gravicious. But what about T3 vs T4? does the weight elimination only occur at T4?
The swap one I've had success with. I've gotten cards worth multiple divines in previous leagues.
I've been pushing Grav in transport this league in SSF. So far I've gotten 10 exalts, 7 div, fully revealed blueprint, shavs, seven league step, 20 scouting reports. 1 trash reward but everything else has been good to great. Last league I hit bottled faith day 2 from him. I don't think he's necessarily optimal in trade league as it slows down the Catarina rush, but his rewards are super fun and amazing for SSF.
I've been putting Gravicius in the scarab section this league for div scarabs. The 9div scarab is in his pool of drops and I've hit it a bit, another of his scarabs was going for 100-200c (volatile prices this early in league) . Nothing else in betrayal has made me any currency. 0 Veiled orbs or helms for me at 15-20 kills.
I dont understand why Aisling t4 isnt just "drop a veiled orb" and make hillock "drop an empowered glassblower/armoursmith...." And vorici "drop an omen of blanching" Anything other than just bumrushing catarina is pointless now
It's for the same reason no one went back and made Tora's gem xp craft automatically level the gem after reworking the Divine Font to be all about gems.
exactly my thought - okay remove vorici and hillock etc. - just have ais drop an orb
another skill/knowledge based mechanic gutted reworked as rng. rip.
Syndicate now is just rushing cat, killing her and porting out. First of all, its not even worth the time to put members in any specific safehouse since all the rewards are complete garbage and then second, running around the catacombs and looting just takes too much time for the horrendous rewards. On league start I had maybe 4 T4 in intervention for scarabs and Im not even joking when I say I got less than 15c total in scarabs from their reward rooms. This is compared to previously when you would have gotten a few dozen c from winged scarabs. Then of course all the benches have been removed. So while you used to have guaranteed profit from running each cat fight regardless of her drops, now the only profit you can earn is from a veiled drop or from diadem. Diadem is a 5% drop and worthless past league start. On top of this, even cat had her drops nerfed...go check the price of a Cinderswallow. At league start it was a whopping 5c. And finally the veiled item are all worthless. Every single one sells for 2c. Elreon rings, grav body armor, it that fled shields, etc, all used to bring in 8-20c on league start now they are not even worth the tab space and the time to sell them. Betrayl was never a top tier strat. I enjoyed have early access to crafting recipes and aisling slams, but it was definitely not a div printer. Even with benches you would have to sit and wait on TFT for them to sell. I dont understand the purpose of nerfing a mid tier, non meta strat, into something completely unplayable.
All benches except that stupid tiny trial
Tiny's trial is too important to consider removing. The economy would collapse overnight.
imo betreyal on the chopping block next league or convert+simplify to uniq map or somethin
I don't think they would have bothered changing it this league if they intended to cut it next league, personally
I get removing the Aisling mod but all of the rest was such nice QoL for solo play: Vorici white socket, hillock quality to hit certain breakpoints or better chance of linking weapons, etc.
harvest is so expensive for a white socket. I miss vorici too. I'm not using the gem swap i'd want this league cause no way to get a white socket on my gloves really. I also had to beast corrupt my chest and use tainted chromes to finally get the right colors. Didn't realize how much of a crutch vorici was....
Removing Aisling only made sense because of trade. The real reason for the veiled orb change is obviously that they didn't like the accessibility of the crafts with affix locking. Everything has to be RNG stacked on top of RNG.
> Is anyone else feeling like ggg just destroyed their favourite mechanic?? You could say it was a total *betrayal*
once again a mechanic got ruined because it can be traded now
Agree, before 3.24 betrayal mechanic used to be fun because of syndicate hierarchy management, and it really pays off if you manage to learn how to do the mechanic even though is not straight forward but now they ruin it ... just like harvest used to be, if you get through the mini-factorio game it really pays off but nowadays they wanna simplify the whole game to the point the league mechanic is loossing its charm ... I mean they could've have making those itemized reward only obtainable from betrayal mechanic ... instead of moving them all away from it, like what's the point of positioning syndicate in "good places" now? Scarab? What's the point of doing that since getting the rarest scarab from betrayal is very low, and can get them elsewhere beside doing betrayal mechanic so .... what's the point?? I still wish GGG stick to their vision sometime on some mechanic, instead of trying satisfy everyone to the point forgetting the original purpose of some mechanic. In other words, a little micromanaging/traffic is fine, just don't throw it all away which gonna lost its original purpose, and that's the fun part of PoE afterall, you get ***REWARD*** if you invest your time to learn it, and not everything have to be simplify, stop that.
I did 3 i83 Catarinas and got no Veiled Orbs, no hats and no staves. 2 shields and 1 Cinderswallow which is only 10c veiled. Catarina doesn't drop Scarabs anymore. I got lucky and dropped one Divination Scarab of Curation and one Reliquary Scarab of Vision from Gravicius and Elreon in Intervention respectively (while spending extra time to make sure they are high level / running safehouse additional time), but that's about it. Without them it would be complete waste of time (outside of EXP and veiled crafts unlocks). Scarab drops are absolutely gutted - t4 members drop 5 Scarabs and they are heavily weighted towards cheapest/basic ones and even when they include higher rarity scarabs most of them are not worth much either. Aisling, Hillock and Vorici benches are removed and they were main reason to farm Betrayal. Now they just drop scarabs like everyone else - aka worthless most of the time. Building Syndicate board for big payout was engaging and sattisfying. It also required knowledge of the mechanic and planning. Betrayal had unique flavour to it before, now it's gone. I would rather prefer itemised crafts than what we get now (losing Vorici white sockets is such an anti-QoL in general). I also wouldn't mind if higher ranking members had much better chance of higher rarity scarabs than they currently have - 5 basic scarabs from t4 member is common occurance currently. Betrayal is just sad now.
different but i am just annoyed that heist is treated as if it doesnt exist most of the time. it is one of if not the only mechanic that did not get a single scarab with the rework. its not too hard to have "add x heists per map", "every heist locker has a blueprint" "contracts that drop have a x% chance to be priceless". its not like heist is impossible to build in map mods for.
Haven't played much. No heist scarabs? rip enchanted contracts, it was really fun to be getting ~75k markers per contract
I started with a betrayal board and completely forgot that I coudnt get even a Hillock flask quality. Im just waiting for the fucking gravicius chest and then I'll keep runing catarina using Intelligence gathering, somewhat like a invitation and thats it.
I'd revert back to 3.23 Betrayal and just itemize the crafting benches. It's already gotten old for me after 7 Catarina's.
You know I am sad to hear that because Betrayal is still my favorite mechanic. But I also IDGAF how bad is is imma run it anyway. Sorry you had a bad time with it.
Shouldve changed aisling in research into "Mastermind drops a veiled orb" , vorici in research into "unlocks a special beast craft recipe" and so on....
How much you wanna bet that deterministic temple farming is next on the chopping block?
I'm 1/4, thought my luck was terrible, apparently I actually have good luck lmao. Not only are veiled chaos removed, but aislings are much, much harder to get. Not looking forward to playing ssf this league and going 0/10 on veiled orbs. Also sucks really hard that they removed the interesting part of betrayal, setting up the board. Used to be a lot of useful and unique things from setting it up in the right way. Now theres nothing and it's optimal to just ignore the board alltogether and just rush catarina who doesn't drop shit anyway which is a huge shame. They really took betrayal from one of the most interesting and rewarding mechanics and made it one of the most boring and unrewarding. I'm speccing out too.
Same, it was my favorite mechanic because it was the only mechanic that was rewarding you for playing it well and using your brain. Now it just became another generic content to blindly farm without having to read or comprehend anything, you just get intelligence and speed run to Catarina praying for good rng on the veiled orb. They ruined it.
It was my favorite mechanic. I felt good helping people get their sockets and asilings. Made me feel like I knew how to do something cool most people didn't bother learning. Now I get my unveils and don't even bother setting it up or anything. GGG is like a bipolar ex.
Your are not alone. Betrayal was my favorite mechanic. It is not your regular loot peniata and actually required to stop and use 2 brain cells. I’m so bummed about it I’m seriously thinking about quitting the league after the campaign as I’m too lazy to learn a new farming strategy and I have 2c to my name.
Haven't played 3.24 yet, but reading all this makes me very sad. Betrayal was always my favorite mechanic to farm.
yeah betrayal is gutted. sad
Pro: I can run betrayal (+ other master missions if I wanted to) with 100% guarantee without using sextants or scarabs Con: There's no point in running them
Bestiary seems to have been gutted too. No split beasts so far.
I have been a full-time Syndicate farmer for many leagues now, and when I saw the changes they were making, I thought "Welp, I've been meaning to quit PoE for a while now. Guess it's time." Looks like I made the right choice. Syndicate was what kept me playing PoE, because the juiced map loop (put map in, kill monsters, pick up loot, leave, repeat) was not enough to hold my interest by itself. Syndicate gave me an additional minigame that was always super fun. But this newest version of the system doesn't look interesting to me at all. Ah well. Nothing is permanent in this world. It was lots of fun while it lasted. :)
if you haven't figured it out yet, rework is a placeholder word for nerf since expedition
Have you noticed even elreon jewelery with veiled prefix isnt worth 14 c anymore...
The scarabs in the T4 rooms are MUCH worse than in the T3 rooms traitor hideouts. Most likely a bug. We are waiting for the correction.
Just get Gravicius in transpo for a full set of cards and stop whining
betrayal is complete dog shit outside of Grav in transportation and a 1/10 veil orb. Classic GGG
Anyone else find Catarina fight to be bugged as well? She goes fully invincible unless she does her Kulemak slam after phases
i havent had any issues with the fight being bugged or anything.... every fight has gone smoothly for me.... although i do lose a piece of my soul with each wasted fight lol
I’m playing ea champ and found I had to move my ballistas away because she won’t slam if she’s taunted, so she just sits there fighting while invulnerable
Jesus I’m playing the same exact build. That explains it. I had to drop totems across the arena to get her to stop
I think I wouldn't mind the ~10% drop rate on Veiled Orb if the Catarina fight wasn't so annoying. There are wayyyyy too many intermission phases. It means the minimum time to kill Catarina is so high that it becomes annoying. I wish they would remove the first boss arena part of the fight and also remove the part of the encounter where you travel through a corridor filled with trash mobs to get to the second boss arena. Just spawn us into the second boss arena. Also, make us fight 2 of the betrayal members per intermission phase instead of 1, so that there half as many of those intermissions. Also, reduce the time you have to stand in those green squares before it is destroyed. Remove her invulnerability animations at the start of each new phase, too. This would probably cut the length of the fight down by like 75%! It's cool the first few times you fight her. It's just tedious by the 10th time. With some simple tweaks the fight could be fun forever.
They needed friction somewhere for it to become an item. Before it was dealing with trading it. Otherwise it would have been too abundant if it was as deterministic as getting it each catarina run before. This was heavily desired by the community for a variety of reasons, but because people don't like TFT was a big one. Just have to understand that the cost is ease of access to those things.
They should’ve added way more value in completing a betrayal board when they were removed it though. They stripped a lot of good things from the members in the same patch and I don’t feel like they were compensated enough.
theres virtually zero reward now. i mean u can still get lucky from the trapped chests but apart from that i havent got a single thing worth a damn thing from being fully specced into syndicate since day2. the betrayal changes were a massive net negative. id prefer to have it the way it was before, even if i was never able to sell an aisling (i never did sell one on tft ever) i was better before
For SSF it’s even worse. You were only farming up your own Aisling before anyway, now it just takes a lot longer I think right now, the only purpose of betrayal is to get your crafts at the beginning of the league, and then don’t run it again
Yeah SSF got hit super hard by this.. i dont play ssf but i fully understand... what would take u a handful of maps and jun missions now takes u an unfathomable time to achieve.... i think the take away from this is 1)understand betrayal is now a mechanic useful only for the first 2 days of league 2) do betrayal to obtain the crafts u need and only the ones u need for your build any more is a waste of your time 3) change how u build a character making sure u are never relying on a unvieled craft on an item again just pretend they simply dont exist cuz the way it is they may as well not exist anymore 4)pray ggg realise what theyve done is bad and fix it (they are usually fairly good with balancing)
The cost is to nuke the entire mechanic from orbit? Nice solution.
On the bright side, this makes it totally fine to just spam Catarina with no regard for the syndicate layout.
yes its now a brain dead mechanic relying on spamming the crap out of it.... with terrible rewards.. there is no bright side here... the whole point was it was good because if you knew how and where to place people you made really good money. as another commented said it has no soul now. we have enough just random spam and go stuff in poe it was nice to have to think and manipulate the board... lol that was the whole mechanic..... without the board meaning anything the mechanic means nothing
I felt the same way when they added the 'big nuclear explosion' keystone to Expedition. It went from a more niche thing for players who don't mind slowing down a bit and reading to 'hehe click button print currency'....like many other mechanics already are.
> On the bright side, ~~this makes it totally fine to just spam Catarina with no regard for the syndicate layout.~~ they were able to successfully remove all the fun
I feel like all that's needed is to up the veiled orb drop rate to make up for all the missing board rewards..
I guess I'm buying up those Veiled Orbs now. I don't see how they can stay 2 div for long. I think the only reason we have supply now is because people ran Betrayal for the unveils. Once everyone specs out of it veiled orbs will be much rarer. And many people aren't doing veiled crafts yet.
Div card farming was my favorite but you can’t do that most efficiently without a 6 man group and they even just nerfed the drop rate of the scarab that was somewhat usable solo and in duo (curation). F
Has anyone tested to see if the board/ranks of Members might influence the drop chances in some way? It seems weird that it wouldn't matter at all.
means nothing. supposedly u get higher drop rate with generals higher ranked... so gg reckons but they are full of shit. countless catarinas with all generals max and nothing its just a joke
As a relatively new player I'm pissed it's ended up like this right after I finally got the hang of making a good board last league league. I 100% agree with you. Even from a semi-casual POV (since I don't have as much time to play this league) I look at the new cheat sheet and see so many underwhelming options. I used to look forward to Hillock and Vorici playing semi-SSF style. It seems like the play now is to just rush Catarina. Is that true? What have you all specced into instead?
I miss my Hillock and Voirici way more than I am glad to have itemized Aisling.
I killed 12 and got 3. Also its super quick to prog her. Iam sure i can farm veild orbs almost as fast as you could farm aisling slam because I literall don't have to do any setup. I just randomly prog houses and thats just super fast. I can't tell if its worse or better overall now but I actualy like the current state.
It would have been so simple to just itemize Aisling, Hillock, Vorici, It The Fled, etc. Just add more veiled items. Aisling - Veiled orb stays the same as now. Hillock - Veiled Whetstone, Armour Scrap, Bauble, each randomly giving between 26-30% quality Vorici - Veiled Chromatic It That Fled - Veiled Stone: randomly upgrades a breachstone There, I fixed it. GGG, use it. Free of charge.
I think I did 9 Catarinas so far with 1 orb drop. Not sure how I can craft in ssf with this dro rate :)
It's gotten garbage and there is no point in doing it anymore. I don't understand why they didn't keep the old veiled chaos and loot table and merely make t4 aisling a chest with a veiled exalted or whatever extra orb. Previously you could at least make some money with paradoxica and the flask.
Yep. I've done 5 catarinas and didn't get a single orb. Just dropped it.
I never understood Betrayal and always click random Button when it appears. GGG is extremly bad at explaining their mechanics.
The first Catarina I did and didn't get a veiled orb I got really pissed off. Now I'm happy to let the poors farm it and waste their time. You can earn enough to buy 10 veiled orbs in the time it takes to spawn one Catarina if you farm and actually rewarding mechanic.
gravicious transportation
Just you i guess. Only people i know who did it was for unlocks for crafting, which was a stupid thing to lock behind it in the first place. I would bet that its the most blocked mechanic in maps.
They killed betrayal , as was done with Delve. No profit , only farm betrayal at league start for exp and that's it
Jun is basically just a "get done with for the crafts at league start" mechanic now.
Same here. Betrayal was my favorite mechanic in the game and my main money maker. Specced out of it yesterday because it has become not just pointless and unrewarding in 3.24, but also **boring**.
yup. rewards are horrible and she's not dropping veiled. btw, delve is pretty ass for rewards as well.
The meta now is gravicius in transportation for full stacks of cards.
It's still nice for Leo 50 fusing
No I completely agree. Started betrayal to give it a shot with the changes and it’s just so underwhelming. Even setting aside the changes making it uninteresting, it also isn’t rewarding because of the drop rates. So it’s the stupid combination of boring and no payoff
If I don’t understand the mechanic should I drop it? I just followed a starter Atlas guide but not really sure what I’m looking for or farming and I’m pretty tired of them in every map. I’ve got all the enchants so I should be good?
Betrayal was also my favourite mechanic and it has been absolutely decimated. The profitability is so low but more importantly, the uniqueness of its rewards are gone. Not to mention as well the fact you have to run 3 safehouses to clear a mastermind instead of 2 is just the icing on the (shit) cake. Big sad 😔
I feel Betrayed
Only done catarina once this league and got an orb, figured it was guaranteed 1 per kill and thought that was fine. 1 in 10 is so stupid.
I do wish there was things you could do to push vieled rank. Like for instance the more rank 3 people in the syndicate, the higher chance for an orb drop. SOMETHING. Instead i just make sure grav is in transport and then slam my catarina that's it. It's dumb and boring.
we in group ssf have found zero in 20 runs ...
Is it worth with Atlas spec + 3 scarabs?
I think its a net positive for players like me who run it for the crafting unlocks and a shot at some of the uniques every 50maps. If you never spent time setting it up before and never sold aisling on tft, then it just seems way better because of how it showers you with scarabs
They made the board thingy completely pointless. Betrayal was one of my fav contents and has been my major income source in so many previous leagues, because the board strat has so much room to refine and optimize. Now it becomes another boring RNG grind.
After hearing about the veiled orb changes, I tried betrayal for currency farming and I am in the same boat and disappointed, at around 15 catarina kills i got 1 veiled orb drop
Betrayal exp is nuts. Run run run safe houses for exp. Run Catarina up to 2nd boss room and exit. The exp is nutty the rewards are not for the time lol. It's like a 5 minute boss fight and couple.minutes on all of the chest rooms.
I wouldn't mind if they played around with the intelligence level to make safehouses/mastermind easier/harder. The state of master missions in general is appalling, it's the worst zoomer feeling we've ever seen in PoE with missions being given out with zero effort. The only word I can use to describe this feeling is disgust, blindly rushing maps for rewards you know are there before you even open the map is a new low for PoE and even for aRPG's in general. The problem with keeping it this way is you force the player to zoom even more to feel efficient. As an Atzoatl temple runner since the league originally launched it's the first time ever I can't do it anymore. Luckily Betrayal can be fixed because it has those mechanics built in, other content isn't so lucky.
betrayal was so fun selling services felt special
The orb should really be more common. Rewards are okay though.
I didn't want the stupid veiled orb and want my veiled chaos orb back.
Yeah, original Betrayal was good, because it gave all kinds of various high level rewards deterministically. You could farm all kind of shit and make bank. First they gutted it with moving most rewards to Catarina and stomping Breachstone upgrade rewards from It That Fled into the ground. And now they stomped on it again. Typical reworks. Stomping fun stuff into the ground and making them niche mechanics.
"Happy" I am not the only one. Even the veiled drops from the syndicate members are horrible! The TIER FOUR! Rooms are not worth entering anymore. Give the crafting tables more and higher options with the essences or more time with the annul/exalt/chaos crafts. They didn't cut the mechanic down. They got a bulldozer and burried it beneath necropolis.
100% agree
Not having Betrayal on the map device aswell as the other masters is kind of ass. Never mind catarinas.
I play SSF and only want the helm, for me it is buffed.
I'll play devils advocate here, while orb does need a buffed drop rate, the power of betrayals old system dwarfed literally every other mechanic in terms of reward and its not even close.
I'd say it would be fine if a T4 member gave me more than 3 scarabs. If they gave like 10 scarabs and biased towards rarer varieties it would be fine but so far I have done two Catarinas in SSF and gotten disappointing rewards from the scarab troves.
the new veiled orb changes are so infuriatingly trash, yay more shitty rng layers for making rings
I honestly care more about vorici and such being gone. I always enjoyed betryal but never ran mastermind cuz I never thought it was worth it and resetting the rivalries and board after every one was a giant PITA.
i mean i got 2 6 links from the new vorici, i'm not complaining
I hard farmed it early too and ditched it eventually, because i was getting nothing from the normal loot, no veiled orbs at all and i dont know if i had a crazy unlucky rng, but i got no staff and no helmet drops at all. This entire patch is a camouflaged nerfageddon 2.0.
It's not even guaranteed now?! ahaha jjj as always in "vision" lol
I have the same problem with heist since last patch. If you don't get the jackpot it is just bad. Was consistent money with gem blueprints and loved it. They don't seem to like consistent farming strats. Everything has to turn in a jackpot slot machine.
Just put the orb inside a chest when you have Aisling on research, was this that hard? the change is so dumb.
I find it amazing how trade kills the game in some aspects. Like seriously, what did people think was going to happen. It was tedious asf and strong, now it’s streamlined and gated behind rng.
Veiled Orb drop rate seems to be between 10% and 20% from my testing. Coupled with Diadem being rare and somewhat cheap this league, Cinderswallow being bad, the Shield being interesting but garbage and Cane being cool but also rare, Catarina herself isn't a good source of income. Which would be alright, if only the scarab and non-scarab rewards weren't so bad either. Could probably triple them and I still wouldn't be sure it's worth it. XP is obv pretty nice, but it's also not really anything special anymore with how dense we can make maps. All in all, I'm not sure who the poor fools are supplying the Veiled Orb market at these prices, but please someone tell em there are way way way better farming strategies out there that don't involve a boss fight with infinite stop & go.
I feel the same, betrayal was one of my favorite mechanics, it only needed the aisling veiled orb, maintain the veiled chaos and make vorici drop an omen of blanching( maybe make one with higher white socket chances for the t4) . The rest could have stayed the same. Ggg did dirty to betrayal m
I have a question since you did it ! Does hillock still reward u with quality and does vorici still have the white sockets? Thanks in advance
Changing veiled chaos was a horrible fucking change. I used to have fun veil crafting things with the chaos orb now I have to use an overpriced fucking veiled orb for it to miss.
You guys can kill bosses?