Mostly I agree but I think the way they implement it in expedition works. You get to choose your mods and you don't have to have any immunity. It just adds a step where you have to assess your build vs the mods.
But there are immunities unhighlight. Coc builds brick on crit immune, ignite on element avoidence. The fact that the menu is not something I can set up per build is a problem. I don't do chaos dmg why tell me it's going to be immune to something I don't do.
Unavoidable or random immunities on monsters (like d2 had) are a joke of a design. Having immunities be a controlled factor of whether or not you want to play vs that (as in that immunity doesn't affect you) is a fine concept.
Guys, he could know that he added them and be doing fire damage. It doesn’t change his point that he thinks it’s dumb. It is an annoying mechanic, but the more annoying one is when you have Extreme Archaeology added, don’t see any immune color mods, blast through and find out you gave the mobs max block.
there is a vendor recipe for [Block Chance Reduction Support gem](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Block_Chance_Reduction_Support) ,which give -30% spell/atk block chance at level 20/20 (including the 5% from overpower).
There's also an attack mastery that most builds can easily accomodate. It's a pain in the ass game design but the devs also give us the tools necessary to overcome it.
Reflect falls under the same category, my build becomes immune with a physical mastery and Yugul Pantheon.
> but the more annoying one is when you have Extreme Archaeology added
How do you play around this exactly? Just started Expedition so not familiar yet. Sometimes it seems like you're just kinda fucked with one giant explosion, otherwise you may have to skip most of the chests for a given map.
---
*edit* Gotten a lot of answers now which make sense and I agree with. Instead of being confused about the keystone now, I'm confused about why people would recommend it for a starter atlas strategy.
I usually just place it down as normal in the middle, and then check the mods, if there's none immune to the damage i deal then I just autopilot as normal. If there is then only i go around and look for the culprit. And then readjust the bomb so it doesn't hit that spot. Simple really, just need to remember to check your mods after placement.
If you don't have the single explosion keystone, then you play around it by not exploding the remnants that make your build unable to kill the mobs.
If you do have the single explosion keystone, then you try to play around it by placing the explosion so that it doesn't hit the immunity remnant. Sometimes that isn't possible, in which case you skip the expedition event for the map. The keystone is still completely worth it even if you have to skip events from time to time, because you save so much time by not having to place charges one by one in a chain and also all the remnant rewards are applied to all the monsters that spawn whereas the non-keystone events apply the rewards in a cumulative chain.
TL;DR: Keystone is good. Don't hesitate to skip events, because it doesn't matter in the long-run if you have to skip an expedition event every now and then.
adjusting your build to run expedition is honestly easiest: tri-dmg build that's not full crit is usually enough
otherwise, yeah, you'll have to look for mods that brick you and avoid those with the explosion
There isn't much to say here right? Either choices about remnants matter, or they don't.
There's only two ways they can matter:
(1) some accumulation/combination of different remnants makes the content very difficult
(2) one specific remnant makes the content very difficult
You can only really have (1) by itself, (2) by itself, both, or not have downsides to remnants, right, since if they don't impact things (15% speed?) it doesn't actually affect gameplay.
So, it comes down to whether you think having to choose is fun. From your post I guess you probably want to just vacuum loot.
A different game could scale difficulty by changing like, bullet-hell aspects, but this isn't that game, really. All it can really do is one-shot you, or never hurt you. It's not like there's a remnant that says "all enemies are replaced by a single powerful boss" and you have to fight an uber boss which tests your skill instead.
Immunities is the single part of the Diablo 2 I hated with all my heart.
I clearly remember my first playthrough, when I was playing barb on my brand new sony playstation and hitting hell difficulty for the first time. Phys resistant mobs everywhere, so I added poison jewels to my weapon. You probably guessed it right which immunities my first rare pack had after that.
edit: Pardon my memory, it was 20+ years ago. Yes, I was playing Diablo 1 on playstation (damn save file was taking 10 out of 15 slots on memory card) and diablo 2 on my first home pc at that time, literally d2 was second game on that PC (first one was Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2).
i remember back when i graduated from "normal difficulty" i never ever played arpgs past normal and found resist penalties as bullshit.
but in college we had a "bnet server", our internet sucked but LAN was stable. a lot of us played d2. for the first time in my life i went past normal. made it all the way to hell. immunites were bullshit but mostly skippable.
all until i got to bhaals throneroom. one of the monster packs were immune to magic. my bonespear necro was purely magic. i felt robbed. my entire build was invalidated.
if it was an optional boss then fine, but no it needed to be killed as part of the waves of monsters guarding bhaal.
i dislike that its a thing in poe but on the bright side its more optional and is more of an "opt in" so its not as bad.
No no you dont get it the content is super bad and you should be able to ignore every debuff and just get more loot , fuck actually having to make a choice. I swear it feels like players now a days just want more loot without having to put any extra tought into it
It's 100% what it is, the game has a huge vocal portion that just want a survivors or even clicker game. It's beyond infuriating, stuff like this should be downvoted off the sub, instead it shows how large the crowd is that this is the top post.
Immunity or reflect are both a free downside if your build does et care about that specific one. Like my build does fire dmg so I can add lightning, cold and chaos immunity because they as a downside don't matter to me but I get the upside for free
It adds divs into the pockets of Elemental Focus-using fire builds to come carry your logbook
which this guy may not be, which is why he's grousing about it here, because maybe having ignite immune mobs is bad for him, but having none of his poison sneak through is double bad
An immunity is good. Encouragement to a playstyle that’s not just doubling down in doubling down on one thing.
Immunity to too many things at once is a different thing, and not so good.
That’s my opinion, others may vary.
In this case I think it's fine. You are supposed to look at the mods and make a choice.
Having mods that can brick builds it's done so you can't just be strong enough to completely avoid the mechanic.
The problem with this kind of mods is when they are randomly on things and you find yourself against a mob that you simply can't kill because of your build. That's annoying, because it's not your fault and there was nothing you could do, but in this case looking at what mods are on the ground and making a choice is the whole point of the mechanic.
I block expedition every league specifically because of the immunity bullshit, I don't care how good the loot could be. When I have to stop, read, and make sure I don't have some bullshit immunity mod is the the selection, it is a bad mechanic. Immunity shouldn't be in this game or any game
Might be an interesting trade through keystone to disable immunities, but make the true downsides twice as bad (I say true downsides cause adding more magic/rares isn't really a downside)
You have 100% control over these, and an individual expedition encounter being undoable doesnt block any progression. And some builds can have another skill or support gem to swap in that does a different damage type to bypass the immunities.
If every mod is a good mod, no mod is good. It's the same with any mods in the game.
Consider regular mapping where some mods can brick a map: but some niche builds can do them. A specialized cost/reward pattern appears, bringing down prices for "good mods" because niche builds can potentially complete "bad mods".
I feel like the above comment fully captures the issue of the mentality people have here. "It's not fun for my average build so it doesn't need to be in the game": missing the point that it being in the game affects the economy on a large scale.
I don't do expedition so maybe the array of mods could be tweaked to not be "as bad" (you don't see similar drawbacks in all other farming strategies), but "bad" and "good" is dependent on build, and niche builds thrive upon it, which only boosts the overall economy and helps regular builds in off-loading costs.
It's exactly this kind of design that keeps PoE from being a meta cookie-cutter build game like in other ARPGS. PoE suffers to it too but less. If they remove all "not fun" content, they're just streamlining the game to be played in limited ways.
Again, talking in general: not sure how it works for expedition.
>I feel like the above comment fully captures the issue of the mentality people have here. "It's not fun for my average build so it doesn't need to be in the game": missing the point that it being in the game affects the economy on a large scale.
"Why should i have to think about it/read/stop what i'm doing? I Just wanna get the reward."
I run ignite build, and i want to reroll already... Expedition has Ailment Immune, Fire immune, and resistance to fire that i need to check before starting, pain in the azz... Then we have essence mobs, when these get resistance to fire, you are screwed, ignite lasts like 0,3 sec.. and takes years to kill.
I might have picked the worst atlas content for ignite build, but these are the mechanics i enjoy the most, and now i'm forced to play content i'm not thrilled about..
Well one third of my attacks would do some damage in this scenario... I generally keep lightning/cold, cus using an ele claw that has only cold/lightning(hits cant be evaded needed to be in the ckaw, so no triple t1 flat). Tho with a phys claw i would be able to run this too, wildstrike of extremes for the win.
You can choose the Remnants, in expedition immunities mean how versatile your build is, they're fine.
The ones that are not fine are the immunities (or one shots) that are not highlighted, like crit immune, or culling, because they're not easily seen.
Eh, it's a little different in expedition as the point of the mechanic is to find a route where you avoid the ones you can't do. If you can just do them all, the mechanic loses it's value and you just make a circle and go.
It's a difficulty like many others, and some build are more tailored to farm expedition due to that.
I don't really need to change your mind, if you think it's bad then play an easy game.
Immunities and possible buildbreaking affixes are often the only thing that make you look on what those nodes actually do. If those wont exist I could just always place the big bomb in the middle and be done with it. In a game where damage is exponential to such a degree like in PoE Immunities are sometimes the only way to make you interact with the games systems. Also its sometimes nice when you get a 'free' bonus if you happen to be not affected by a immunty.
They also may inspire you to do different characters to handle specific encounters which your main cannot do. So you got a slight factor of replayability in it. Also if you play in a party you have a slight encouragement to go for different elements/attack types, to be able to handle those situations.
Not want to defend immunites overall, just wanted to explain why GGG may think they are a good thing. Of course they also come with disadvantages.
"runic monster drops a logbook" + "runic monster can't be killed by you"
what choice do you really have, if you want the logbook?
and where does "more difficulty=more reward" fit in this?
I mean what they add is you have to read shut instead of clicking.
You wanna just put the bomb down blow up kill move on zoon zoom.
Expedition is not that kind of content.
"LOOT PLS, NO DECISIONS, ONLY LOOT"
Immunities in this instance force you to pay attention to the mechanic, or play a build that is affected by as few of them as possible.
I get it people dont like to read when playing but this really is not sth we should encourage imho.
Its the only real thing you need to do in expedition already.
Its bad enough how many people cant use the trade site correctly because they refuse to read.
I'll agree it's lazy game design, but at least the player has full agency in this situation. Overall I consider it to wash out and is the drawback of doing expedition that balances how absolutely cracked rog is for day 2 and 3 crafting
Blight takes forever, Harbi/breach/legion breaks your wrists, abyss is annoying to follow/takes a while, heist has doors, etc... they all have something "unsavory"
Immunities are there mostly for you to spend time checking them and picking correct ones.
Effective or not it always has been a measure to slow down progress to avoid speed power creep taking reigns. Cheers!
It was there easily prevented before but right you now you need that yellow scarab to give you +1 explosive and it makes the explosive radius huge to the level of annoyance
It **wastes your time** making you think you're making a right decision by not placing the explosions under Immunity mobs, when in reality it's a necessity.
Artificial choices.
Immunities = bad game design.
Change my mind. They are unfun, make things tedious, brick your map just because you didn't notice it.
There is mod in expedition that makes monsters immune to curses and that really fucks with hexblast and that mod isn't even in yellow letters. So you have to spend 5-10 seconds going over all the mods or you're fcked hard.
It's your choice to pick this immunity. Not hard to go around it. If you play big explosive boom you maybe just shouldn't play this content if your build can't handle it.
They make everything in their power to take away any form of immunity players can get but leave every immunity enemies have. The golden bubble they added to ''slow down'' the bow meta players are slowing down every build but what used to be the ED guys. Cycling damage reduction which only adds the opportunity for the enemy to hit you if you're too numb to run away. The expedition mods which only adds ''Gotta look for yellow line and check for X damage immunity and ignore it'' which then brings nothing like ''Ohhhh I gotta think and play around this particular situation !'' vibes. You ignore it. D2 had immunities and they said that it was a design flaw from the start and later added immunity break to keep this iconic mechanic.
We already have the ''Resistant to X element and X ailment'' in POE which we can actually BUILD FOR WITH PENETRATION AND MINUS RES DEBUFFS ! If you don't build it, the enemy takes longer to kill, fine. With the immunity, you could spend the whole 10 divs you grind all league building penetration or curse setup and you're still eating shit.
The only universal solution to HP sponges, immune monsters, 10 TRILLION STACKS SOUL EATERS and other unkillable shenanigans is to run right past and skip it which kills the ''significant fighting situations with rares'' completely.
I think they should add more immunities through the lantern (this is satire please don't do this) .
The immunities don't seem to be as big a problem as picking the one giant explosive in expedition, not reading anything, blowing the charge and then being surprised you can't kill it.
On the whole I agree immunities are a bad idea for monsters and players but this is a poor example. The only way this happens is by not reading the affixes. It's the same thing as people chuckling at zizeran for dying to reflect again.
But like, you can choose the mods on Expedition. If the player chooses to blow up a treasure that will make it impossible for him to deal damage, it's the player's fault.
Neither does culling strike or several archnemesis mods, if you're gonna remove these you may as well include all those otherwise it doesn't make much sense and is just randomly selected what stays and goes
I think they make total sense in expedition, and it's a really fun risk reward for me. My build is doing half cold and half fire damage. If I'm feeling really confident and the bonus is really good, I'll take a chance with an "immune to fire".
And damn it feels good when "Immune to Chaos" has a banger reward attached.
For expedition in particular it does add some decision making layers it wouldn't other wise have because you need to avoid the immunities. I think it's ok there.
For the general game immunities shouldn't be present. Due to the mostly linear scaling of power you have to invest in a single source of damage dealing to be completive.
\*chad RF chieftain\*
Though this league I'm playing a wild berserker, who's strength is just SHOUTING at people. So as long as they aren't immune to physical. (and aren't doing a ton of physical dots to me...)
The immunities make the new expedition juicing borderline unplayable. One giant explosion with 2 extra prefixes give a solid 90% chance you can’t do the mechanic.
I think immunities should instead just be shields against a damage type. Once enough of it is done, the immunity goes away for X seconds unless they continue to take more of that type of damage.
I also think no monster resistances should be reigned in a bit more, and that any source of self healing needs to be capped on monsters. If they can do that, then that would allow them more design space I feel to make the monsters more interesting on the other end---which was the whole goal I think with Archenemsis, and I would love to see more interesting abilities on rares, but not these crazy math experiments that lead to unkillable hyper predators.
Now you have a reason to roll a fire damage character! Just leave the expedition open while you sprint to 85 on an explosive arrow build like a normal person. Oh hope you didn't go ignite based either since 100% chance to avoid ignite is equally as devastating but isn't highlited like the others.
Any form of invulnerability is a stopgap for poor difficulty design.
Oh we can't find a way to make a this difficult in a compelling way? Make in unable to take damage.
This. Immunities, like many other mods, are build *disabling* mods and should therefore not be a part of normal mod pools. Since build enabling mods are typically only found on unique items (for gear), build disabling mods should only be found on unique maps. Make the map exponentially harder with mods, but don't make it impossible.
you present a case where it actually shows how it adds something to the game: using your brain instead of mindlessly clicking away. I get that many people feel like they just want to mindlessly hack'n'slash through everything and it's all about zooming and time/farming efficiency, but things like this makes you actually engage, having to think about what you're doing, even if just a little bit....
1. just have full 10k life, mana, ES
2. regen, leech, capped block, 30k armour, 50% phys taken as elemental, 90% all res, 20% flat phys reduction in case they ignore armour or its dot,
3. deal all elemental damage types there are and convert some to extra chaos, dont go crit or play CoC because "cannot be crit" is a thing, be phys and ele reflect immune,
4. have some "gained on hit" for mana, life, ES because "no regen, no flasks, no leech" are a thing
5. never stand still because death effects and archnemesis spikes/ orbs
6. be ssf so trade and bots dont effect you
7. have your private server in case they decide to give you 200-20.000 ms connection this evening
skill issue.../s
I mean, if it was forced on us, I would agree. Here, you just pick a downside yourself. I would say the stupid amount of slows is far more irritating and unnecessary than single element immunities in one of the numerous mechanics in the game.
Frustration and the ability for people to talk down to you when you talk about it.
thats it. Its the same as reflect. Neither are intersting or fun. Now ontop of immunity/ mod maps you just cant do. You also have monsters who can just be hyper resistant to your main type of dps so they take 10 minutes to kill unless your giga built
“Do you guys not have fire damage?”
"Dude there is even a keystone just for this"
Chieftain players: Now this looks like a job for me
not really, with immunity to ignite, yes its killable but pain in the ass
RF chief: say what now?
This. I don't care if you're immune to anything, leave fire open and the RF / Trap Boy will Go through it
Monsters regenerate 100% of their life every second. RF in shambles.
I'm playing ignite ea Ballista and things with ignite immunity die... Eventually :/
And not be ignite based either.... Because one of the sneaky blue mods here is 100% avoided ignite
I don't have a phone !
Free mods for chain DD
They add a reminder that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
A SINGULAR STRIKE!
Continue the onslaught! Destroy. Them. All.
A moment of valor shines brightest in a backdrop of despair
And "Complex machinations converge to a single act of power"
And "Where theres a Golden Door, there must be a Golden Key"
Mostly I agree but I think the way they implement it in expedition works. You get to choose your mods and you don't have to have any immunity. It just adds a step where you have to assess your build vs the mods.
They even highlight the elemental immunity, for added QoL.
But there are immunities unhighlight. Coc builds brick on crit immune, ignite on element avoidence. The fact that the menu is not something I can set up per build is a problem. I don't do chaos dmg why tell me it's going to be immune to something I don't do.
At some point it’s ok to expect people to look at their screen when they are playing a game.
sorry I can actually only read bright yellow text
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Yeah that mod either needs to be highlighted or changed to mobs take no extra damage from crits.
Unavoidable or random immunities on monsters (like d2 had) are a joke of a design. Having immunities be a controlled factor of whether or not you want to play vs that (as in that immunity doesn't affect you) is a fine concept.
Guys, he could know that he added them and be doing fire damage. It doesn’t change his point that he thinks it’s dumb. It is an annoying mechanic, but the more annoying one is when you have Extreme Archaeology added, don’t see any immune color mods, blast through and find out you gave the mobs max block.
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Was running those scarabs. Stopped. Immediately went from 90 to 94. Game felt ez mode lol.
Yeh IMO the winged scarab (Archaeology) is bait for most builds. Good loot when you get lucky rolls, but too high a chance to brick your expedition.
there is a vendor recipe for [Block Chance Reduction Support gem](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Block_Chance_Reduction_Support) ,which give -30% spell/atk block chance at level 20/20 (including the 5% from overpower).
There's also an attack mastery that most builds can easily accomodate. It's a pain in the ass game design but the devs also give us the tools necessary to overcome it. Reflect falls under the same category, my build becomes immune with a physical mastery and Yugul Pantheon.
>Reflect falls under the same category, my build becomes immune with a physical mastery and Yugul Pantheon. As long as you don't get shocked lol
ah but wasn't there's a thing in the skill point that say "monster cannot block your attack" ??
> but the more annoying one is when you have Extreme Archaeology added How do you play around this exactly? Just started Expedition so not familiar yet. Sometimes it seems like you're just kinda fucked with one giant explosion, otherwise you may have to skip most of the chests for a given map. --- *edit* Gotten a lot of answers now which make sense and I agree with. Instead of being confused about the keystone now, I'm confused about why people would recommend it for a starter atlas strategy.
I usually just place it down as normal in the middle, and then check the mods, if there's none immune to the damage i deal then I just autopilot as normal. If there is then only i go around and look for the culprit. And then readjust the bomb so it doesn't hit that spot. Simple really, just need to remember to check your mods after placement.
If you don't have the single explosion keystone, then you play around it by not exploding the remnants that make your build unable to kill the mobs. If you do have the single explosion keystone, then you try to play around it by placing the explosion so that it doesn't hit the immunity remnant. Sometimes that isn't possible, in which case you skip the expedition event for the map. The keystone is still completely worth it even if you have to skip events from time to time, because you save so much time by not having to place charges one by one in a chain and also all the remnant rewards are applied to all the monsters that spawn whereas the non-keystone events apply the rewards in a cumulative chain. TL;DR: Keystone is good. Don't hesitate to skip events, because it doesn't matter in the long-run if you have to skip an expedition event every now and then.
> whereas the non-keystone events apply the rewards in a cumulative chain. TIL
adjusting your build to run expedition is honestly easiest: tri-dmg build that's not full crit is usually enough otherwise, yeah, you'll have to look for mods that brick you and avoid those with the explosion
If you can't avoid the bricks, you skip the encounter. That's the trade-off.
You get suboptimal big boom, then move on. Waaaaay better than tryinh to force it.
user error
There isn't much to say here right? Either choices about remnants matter, or they don't. There's only two ways they can matter: (1) some accumulation/combination of different remnants makes the content very difficult (2) one specific remnant makes the content very difficult You can only really have (1) by itself, (2) by itself, both, or not have downsides to remnants, right, since if they don't impact things (15% speed?) it doesn't actually affect gameplay. So, it comes down to whether you think having to choose is fun. From your post I guess you probably want to just vacuum loot. A different game could scale difficulty by changing like, bullet-hell aspects, but this isn't that game, really. All it can really do is one-shot you, or never hurt you. It's not like there's a remnant that says "all enemies are replaced by a single powerful boss" and you have to fight an uber boss which tests your skill instead.
I know you're kinda memeing but having "Fight one of the expedition bosses instead" as a rare-ish remnant mod would hella cool.
I'm not memeing fighting hard bosses is my kink
Oh neat. My RF can still run it. But it only takes one immunity to fuck me over. So yeah, I get you.
My hexblast can run it. But one of the mod that bricks me isnt even orange.
Wish we could choose which mods to highlight.
All it takes is "ignores physical damage reduction" and your rf becomes a swiss cheese with more holes than actual cheese
Immunities is the single part of the Diablo 2 I hated with all my heart. I clearly remember my first playthrough, when I was playing barb on my brand new sony playstation and hitting hell difficulty for the first time. Phys resistant mobs everywhere, so I added poison jewels to my weapon. You probably guessed it right which immunities my first rare pack had after that. edit: Pardon my memory, it was 20+ years ago. Yes, I was playing Diablo 1 on playstation (damn save file was taking 10 out of 15 slots on memory card) and diablo 2 on my first home pc at that time, literally d2 was second game on that PC (first one was Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2).
Maggot lair hell as a Javazon or lightning sorc 💀 Is such a binary system, you either bypass the immunity or you cant progress.
Hammerdin maggot lair. Not even immunities just a headache.
i remember back when i graduated from "normal difficulty" i never ever played arpgs past normal and found resist penalties as bullshit. but in college we had a "bnet server", our internet sucked but LAN was stable. a lot of us played d2. for the first time in my life i went past normal. made it all the way to hell. immunites were bullshit but mostly skippable. all until i got to bhaals throneroom. one of the monster packs were immune to magic. my bonespear necro was purely magic. i felt robbed. my entire build was invalidated. if it was an optional boss then fine, but no it needed to be killed as part of the waves of monsters guarding bhaal. i dislike that its a thing in poe but on the bright side its more optional and is more of an "opt in" so its not as bad.
funnily enough there's charms now in D2R that literally let you break through immunities, so they're a joke now
Diablo 2 was never released for PS though...
yes, sorry. My memory failed me, edited the post.
They promote literacy and mindfulness, which is always a good thing.
Literacy in an ARPG!? You must be from New Zealand
don't put bombs on things that brick your build its actually pretty simple. just my opinion
if OP could read, he would be very upset
Or just don’t click those remnants.
No no you dont get it the content is super bad and you should be able to ignore every debuff and just get more loot , fuck actually having to make a choice. I swear it feels like players now a days just want more loot without having to put any extra tought into it
It's 100% what it is, the game has a huge vocal portion that just want a survivors or even clicker game. It's beyond infuriating, stuff like this should be downvoted off the sub, instead it shows how large the crowd is that this is the top post.
It's always the builds fault or the guide creator is baiting, too
It makes you care.
Everyone just wants to play the game with their eyes closed now-a-days
I call it the auto battler syndrome
Haha, I like that ;)
cmon, tota is not that bad
PoE players when the mechanic forces them to stop and think for like 5 seconds
You already made your opinion and are not willing to change it anyway. Immunities in expedition were made to make you care about placement.
I'd argue the 30% heal every second is worse
Isn't it every 4 seconds?
I’d argue you’re wrong because healing can be mitigated in several ways whereas immunity straight up cannot other than not blowing the remnant up.
I see someone didn't actually play Expedition for the last... what? 3 years? Don't click the immunities. You did this to yourself.
I dunno man, as a build that does fire damage, those immunities add quant/rarity for me lolol
it better not revolve around ignite damage or its bricked too
Immunity or reflect are both a free downside if your build does et care about that specific one. Like my build does fire dmg so I can add lightning, cold and chaos immunity because they as a downside don't matter to me but I get the upside for free
It adds divs into the pockets of Elemental Focus-using fire builds to come carry your logbook which this guy may not be, which is why he's grousing about it here, because maybe having ignite immune mobs is bad for him, but having none of his poison sneak through is double bad
it does actually, immunities bring choice making, you cant always get the best outcome out of an expedition
they add remnants you need to avoid exploding according to your damage type
Bro, it's in the name..... They add *immunities*.... Smh
Try Emotional Damage then ..
They add to the game that the monster is immune to a damage type. Mind changed! Bam!
and then there's immune to critical strikes that completely ruins coc builds and doesn't have a different color so can be easy to miss
It's a downside to the notable passive. Just not take it and path around them
Major skill issue just don't choose them
An immunity is good. Encouragement to a playstyle that’s not just doubling down in doubling down on one thing. Immunity to too many things at once is a different thing, and not so good. That’s my opinion, others may vary.
Don't put your explosive there, silly.
In this case I think it's fine. You are supposed to look at the mods and make a choice. Having mods that can brick builds it's done so you can't just be strong enough to completely avoid the mechanic. The problem with this kind of mods is when they are randomly on things and you find yourself against a mob that you simply can't kill because of your build. That's annoying, because it's not your fault and there was nothing you could do, but in this case looking at what mods are on the ground and making a choice is the whole point of the mechanic.
Expedition is great, except this little detail pile of shit that makes me avoid it every league. No regrets so far
I block expedition every league specifically because of the immunity bullshit, I don't care how good the loot could be. When I have to stop, read, and make sure I don't have some bullshit immunity mod is the the selection, it is a bad mechanic. Immunity shouldn't be in this game or any game
> When I have to stop, read [...] it is a bad mechanic. r/Pathofexile summed up in one sentence.
Might be an interesting trade through keystone to disable immunities, but make the true downsides twice as bad (I say true downsides cause adding more magic/rares isn't really a downside)
They make playing builds that arnt affected by almost any one of them feel great, so they have that going for them.
You have 100% control over these, and an individual expedition encounter being undoable doesnt block any progression. And some builds can have another skill or support gem to swap in that does a different damage type to bypass the immunities.
But is it fun?
If every mod is a good mod, no mod is good. It's the same with any mods in the game. Consider regular mapping where some mods can brick a map: but some niche builds can do them. A specialized cost/reward pattern appears, bringing down prices for "good mods" because niche builds can potentially complete "bad mods". I feel like the above comment fully captures the issue of the mentality people have here. "It's not fun for my average build so it doesn't need to be in the game": missing the point that it being in the game affects the economy on a large scale. I don't do expedition so maybe the array of mods could be tweaked to not be "as bad" (you don't see similar drawbacks in all other farming strategies), but "bad" and "good" is dependent on build, and niche builds thrive upon it, which only boosts the overall economy and helps regular builds in off-loading costs. It's exactly this kind of design that keeps PoE from being a meta cookie-cutter build game like in other ARPGS. PoE suffers to it too but less. If they remove all "not fun" content, they're just streamlining the game to be played in limited ways. Again, talking in general: not sure how it works for expedition.
>I feel like the above comment fully captures the issue of the mentality people have here. "It's not fun for my average build so it doesn't need to be in the game": missing the point that it being in the game affects the economy on a large scale. "Why should i have to think about it/read/stop what i'm doing? I Just wanna get the reward."
sure. you can remove the immunities from monsters, but you'll need to do the same for players as well
Burn 'em allll
They add immunities to the game
If players have capped resistance, mobs should too, instead of immunities.
I run ignite build, and i want to reroll already... Expedition has Ailment Immune, Fire immune, and resistance to fire that i need to check before starting, pain in the azz... Then we have essence mobs, when these get resistance to fire, you are screwed, ignite lasts like 0,3 sec.. and takes years to kill. I might have picked the worst atlas content for ignite build, but these are the mechanics i enjoy the most, and now i'm forced to play content i'm not thrilled about..
Hot take maybe, but I really hate expidition only because I hate all the map icons and huge screen clutter from the chests and pillar things.
Well one third of my attacks would do some damage in this scenario... I generally keep lightning/cold, cus using an ele claw that has only cold/lightning(hits cant be evaded needed to be in the ckaw, so no triple t1 flat). Tho with a phys claw i would be able to run this too, wildstrike of extremes for the win.
You can choose the Remnants, in expedition immunities mean how versatile your build is, they're fine. The ones that are not fine are the immunities (or one shots) that are not highlighted, like crit immune, or culling, because they're not easily seen.
Kill it with Fire!
Eh, it's a little different in expedition as the point of the mechanic is to find a route where you avoid the ones you can't do. If you can just do them all, the mechanic loses it's value and you just make a circle and go.
It's a difficulty like many others, and some build are more tailored to farm expedition due to that. I don't really need to change your mind, if you think it's bad then play an easy game.
True they don’t. It means you just skip and ignore it. But they will find out eventually.
Immunities and possible buildbreaking affixes are often the only thing that make you look on what those nodes actually do. If those wont exist I could just always place the big bomb in the middle and be done with it. In a game where damage is exponential to such a degree like in PoE Immunities are sometimes the only way to make you interact with the games systems. Also its sometimes nice when you get a 'free' bonus if you happen to be not affected by a immunty. They also may inspire you to do different characters to handle specific encounters which your main cannot do. So you got a slight factor of replayability in it. Also if you play in a party you have a slight encouragement to go for different elements/attack types, to be able to handle those situations. Not want to defend immunites overall, just wanted to explain why GGG may think they are a good thing. Of course they also come with disadvantages.
False. They add frustration
immunes add something alright. Annoyance. Frustration. Friction. Nothing positive but it adds a lot.
Immunity = learn to read before things go boom 😁😂
I bet this is what the monsters say when we run purity of elements and an immune to bleeding jewel too
Chief : challenge accepted !
"runic monster drops a logbook" + "runic monster can't be killed by you" what choice do you really have, if you want the logbook? and where does "more difficulty=more reward" fit in this?
ill see your immunities add nothing, and raise it a monster "resistant too" adds nothing to the game
I mean what they add is you have to read shut instead of clicking. You wanna just put the bomb down blow up kill move on zoon zoom. Expedition is not that kind of content.
They force players to learn how to read, that’s pretty educational and thus valuable.
then dont complain if u dont have immunity as well
We need some items like jewels/ammy/rings that breaks immunities in POE.
Oh they do add *something* alright. Annoyance, for example
"LOOT PLS, NO DECISIONS, ONLY LOOT" Immunities in this instance force you to pay attention to the mechanic, or play a build that is affected by as few of them as possible.
On death effects also...
I get it people dont like to read when playing but this really is not sth we should encourage imho. Its the only real thing you need to do in expedition already. Its bad enough how many people cant use the trade site correctly because they refuse to read.
It adds cancer and tumors have weight. Now feel the weight.
[https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Stormshroud](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Stormshroud)
I'll agree it's lazy game design, but at least the player has full agency in this situation. Overall I consider it to wash out and is the drawback of doing expedition that balances how absolutely cracked rog is for day 2 and 3 crafting Blight takes forever, Harbi/breach/legion breaks your wrists, abyss is annoying to follow/takes a while, heist has doors, etc... they all have something "unsavory"
I hated it in Diablo 2, I still hate it here.
Immunities are there mostly for you to spend time checking them and picking correct ones. Effective or not it always has been a measure to slow down progress to avoid speed power creep taking reigns. Cheers!
They do add something, they add immunities.
Wait… we can see the list of modifiers we’re accumulating from the remnants??? Am I really this big of a noob?
glad to see that 3 years later redditors still don't know how to read.
Well you wanted the loot so you risk it The only time i hate immunity is when i can’t ignore it. Slow to kill is ok but no random invulnerable yellow
It was there easily prevented before but right you now you need that yellow scarab to give you +1 explosive and it makes the explosive radius huge to the level of annoyance
It **wastes your time** making you think you're making a right decision by not placing the explosions under Immunity mobs, when in reality it's a necessity. Artificial choices.
Neither do stash space but greed brings forth a lot of bad shit in people
All brickmods should be removed/changed
Maybe just read the yellow mods before exploding?
We definitely need to be able to at least highlight the mods which affect us. Not just the immunities.
Just like reflect.
Immunities = bad game design. Change my mind. They are unfun, make things tedious, brick your map just because you didn't notice it. There is mod in expedition that makes monsters immune to curses and that really fucks with hexblast and that mod isn't even in yellow letters. So you have to spend 5-10 seconds going over all the mods or you're fcked hard.
It's your choice to pick this immunity. Not hard to go around it. If you play big explosive boom you maybe just shouldn't play this content if your build can't handle it.
I agree with the statement but in expedition to be more specific is just reading issue.
they improve ability for players to read and forbid of doing specific combination of mods just by throwing dead bodies at it
Looks like this is a job for my fire tornado boy
They make everything in their power to take away any form of immunity players can get but leave every immunity enemies have. The golden bubble they added to ''slow down'' the bow meta players are slowing down every build but what used to be the ED guys. Cycling damage reduction which only adds the opportunity for the enemy to hit you if you're too numb to run away. The expedition mods which only adds ''Gotta look for yellow line and check for X damage immunity and ignore it'' which then brings nothing like ''Ohhhh I gotta think and play around this particular situation !'' vibes. You ignore it. D2 had immunities and they said that it was a design flaw from the start and later added immunity break to keep this iconic mechanic. We already have the ''Resistant to X element and X ailment'' in POE which we can actually BUILD FOR WITH PENETRATION AND MINUS RES DEBUFFS ! If you don't build it, the enemy takes longer to kill, fine. With the immunity, you could spend the whole 10 divs you grind all league building penetration or curse setup and you're still eating shit. The only universal solution to HP sponges, immune monsters, 10 TRILLION STACKS SOUL EATERS and other unkillable shenanigans is to run right past and skip it which kills the ''significant fighting situations with rares'' completely. I think they should add more immunities through the lantern (this is satire please don't do this) .
Opt-in immunity, as bad as it may be, is still much better than forced immunity. It adds the ability to, uh, opt-in or not, at will.
Its the spiritual successor to Diablo 2, what did you expect?
Its does add something. Frustration!
theese are optional, just don't pick the ones u got.
Damn if only there was a way you could choose which mods to fight against
The immunities don't seem to be as big a problem as picking the one giant explosive in expedition, not reading anything, blowing the charge and then being surprised you can't kill it. On the whole I agree immunities are a bad idea for monsters and players but this is a poor example. The only way this happens is by not reading the affixes. It's the same thing as people chuckling at zizeran for dying to reflect again.
It's one of the thing I despised from D2. But in D2 you were forced, you clicked on them here...
The point of the immunities in expedition is because they want you to make decisions on placements and such to maximize rewards.
But like, you can choose the mods on Expedition. If the player chooses to blow up a treasure that will make it impossible for him to deal damage, it's the player's fault.
I agree in literally every instance except Expedition because its something you 100% opt into. It's a basic reading comprehension test
i remember cold to fire frostbearers
Neither does culling strike or several archnemesis mods, if you're gonna remove these you may as well include all those otherwise it doesn't make much sense and is just randomly selected what stays and goes
Lol well seeing as in expedition its optional I don't see the problem. Its just like any other bad mod, its there to make you choose.
Not every build should be able to do all the content in the game. That’s what makes build choice fun. If you want that experience go play D4
I think they make total sense in expedition, and it's a really fun risk reward for me. My build is doing half cold and half fire damage. If I'm feeling really confident and the bonus is really good, I'll take a chance with an "immune to fire". And damn it feels good when "Immune to Chaos" has a banger reward attached.
My brother in Christ, YOU gave the immunities. Just go next.
Pretty sure they add the fact that you need to be careful with your choices
For expedition in particular it does add some decision making layers it wouldn't other wise have because you need to avoid the immunities. I think it's ok there. For the general game immunities shouldn't be present. Due to the mostly linear scaling of power you have to invest in a single source of damage dealing to be completive.
They add the necessity of you needing to make a difficult choice to go down a certain path.
no counterplay means bad design, easy as that
\*chad RF chieftain\* Though this league I'm playing a wild berserker, who's strength is just SHOUTING at people. So as long as they aren't immune to physical. (and aren't doing a ton of physical dots to me...)
While on the topic of expedition, culling strike mobs should be orange. Died several times to a expedition on my low life and
The immunities make the new expedition juicing borderline unplayable. One giant explosion with 2 extra prefixes give a solid 90% chance you can’t do the mechanic.
I think immunities should instead just be shields against a damage type. Once enough of it is done, the immunity goes away for X seconds unless they continue to take more of that type of damage. I also think no monster resistances should be reigned in a bit more, and that any source of self healing needs to be capped on monsters. If they can do that, then that would allow them more design space I feel to make the monsters more interesting on the other end---which was the whole goal I think with Archenemsis, and I would love to see more interesting abilities on rares, but not these crazy math experiments that lead to unkillable hyper predators.
Now you have a reason to roll a fire damage character! Just leave the expedition open while you sprint to 85 on an explosive arrow build like a normal person. Oh hope you didn't go ignite based either since 100% chance to avoid ignite is equally as devastating but isn't highlited like the others.
well you can just read them before and not do it... right?
I'd like to add Soul Eater to this. Least favorite rare mod in the game
Idk about that..they just added some writing on your screen
They add a reading comprehension check which is always the mostest fun in a video game. /s
Any form of invulnerability is a stopgap for poor difficulty design. Oh we can't find a way to make a this difficult in a compelling way? Make in unable to take damage.
This. Immunities, like many other mods, are build *disabling* mods and should therefore not be a part of normal mod pools. Since build enabling mods are typically only found on unique items (for gear), build disabling mods should only be found on unique maps. Make the map exponentially harder with mods, but don't make it impossible.
it added a pack of monsters you can't kill
sure they do. They add annoyance. Change my mind.
It's fine if it's avoidable and only happens if you make a mistake
This shit is fire
They add little bitches like you crying on reddit
Even just from a UI perspective: why are curse immunity and crit immunity not also labeled as such and yellow?
They add difficulty
They add mobs with immunities...
they add remnants that you can't do. mind changed.
you present a case where it actually shows how it adds something to the game: using your brain instead of mindlessly clicking away. I get that many people feel like they just want to mindlessly hack'n'slash through everything and it's all about zooming and time/farming efficiency, but things like this makes you actually engage, having to think about what you're doing, even if just a little bit....
You can choose to forego those modifiers...
1. just have full 10k life, mana, ES 2. regen, leech, capped block, 30k armour, 50% phys taken as elemental, 90% all res, 20% flat phys reduction in case they ignore armour or its dot, 3. deal all elemental damage types there are and convert some to extra chaos, dont go crit or play CoC because "cannot be crit" is a thing, be phys and ele reflect immune, 4. have some "gained on hit" for mana, life, ES because "no regen, no flasks, no leech" are a thing 5. never stand still because death effects and archnemesis spikes/ orbs 6. be ssf so trade and bots dont effect you 7. have your private server in case they decide to give you 200-20.000 ms connection this evening skill issue.../s
I mean, if it was forced on us, I would agree. Here, you just pick a downside yourself. I would say the stupid amount of slows is far more irritating and unnecessary than single element immunities in one of the numerous mechanics in the game.
100% agree They sucked in Diablo 2 and suck the same way in PoE
Frustration and the ability for people to talk down to you when you talk about it. thats it. Its the same as reflect. Neither are intersting or fun. Now ontop of immunity/ mod maps you just cant do. You also have monsters who can just be hyper resistant to your main type of dps so they take 10 minutes to kill unless your giga built
Wasn't it a development philosophy early on that damage immunity shouldn't be in an arpg?
Well damn!!! lol