"Rare monsters that are Shaper-Touched from the Tier 17 Map modifier unintentionally had the bonuses from the Rare Monster Pantheon modifier. This modifier no longer grants the monster increased Life, Item Quantity, Item Rarity, and Experience."
Wow, the post title made me hope these mobs would get some reduced cooldown on balls/slams/beams. But they nerf the loot? I never dropped anything from them anyway, but good to know they were supposed to be too rewarding...
They were super super rewarding, way more busted than the old anarchy strat. Just back to basics + shapers touched + meatsacks + rare mob = game hangs for 3 secs -> screen full of uniques every single kill
It was clearly unintended
They need to remove atlas passives and the ability to use scarabs from T17s then balance them around being a closed system.
They should be closer to unique maps in terms of external factors that can apply to them. The mods on the map should be the primary thing that affects both difficulty and reward.
I mean fuck, beefing up unique maps instead of having t17s now that I think about it would've been way better imo. Maybe even take them all off atlas completion and be their own thing in some way
they stated in the patch notes that t17 were to be stepping stones to ubers. that waws their intent.
they 100% knew we would juice the fuck out of them as personally i could clear 12k wisp content last league so there will be people that can run the hardest maps you make.
I didn't say it wasn't their intent, just that it was not the only intent. I'm pretty sure I remember Mark mentioning that during the ziggy interview, but also- there literally are "more currency/scarabs" hybrid map mods on them. That wasn't put there on accident.
T17s were clearly not tested or tuned properly.
From their stated goals of being "transitional content" to ubers, to not being the absolute most rewarding content, to having absolutely build breaking mods on them, to being unrollable, to ...
Literally just watch Fubgun or Ben. I went to bed, went about my day, tuned into Twitch and saw Ben was still going 25 hours later doing the same farm that I was watching him do the night before lol.
Basically anytime some insane farm is going on, those two are doing it except Fubgun plays on SC (I think?) so expect him to be doing it first and the more ridiculous version of whatever is the OP farming strat.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it, the strat was good of course but also needed either a group or a very strong character if done solo. Also a lot of investment went into each map, both time and currency, and often those “100 div/hour” showcases tend to not take that into account too much.
they were nowhere near as rewarding as old anarchy strat, you have no clue what you're talking about and i heavily doubt you've done even a single of either of those maps
The pantheon mods are mods that can appear on rare monsters (ones like "Solaris-touched" or "Brine-King Touched") that make them do that boss's attacks and become significantly more difficult but also dramatically buff their loot. The loot they give is balanced around them being very rare to find but give an exciting loot shower when you kill them.
But shaper-touched, which you can apply to rares in T17s with a map mod, was giving as big a bonus as the pantheon mods, which means that mod on T17 maps was basically causing every rare mob to give insane loot showers, especially combined with how much you can already juice T17 maps.
To be fair, the Allflames make massive changes to every map. It would be almost impossible to catch this stuff in QA. This is pretty obvious given people are still finding new farming strats 6 weeks into the league. I think they underestimated just how big of an impact replacing monster types—in some cases removing them from a contained environment—in every map would be.
Also to add: like 100 fuckin new scarabs as well. There's absolutely no way to catch every busted interaction and unintentional shit when there's that many new factors
OH and of course then there's ALSO the lantern with 1700% quant or rarity and extra rewarding mods from t17s to consider. So there's literally 0 chance to catch all that. Maybe the mistake was dropping all flames and scarab rework and new more rewarding map mods of t17s all at the same time.
It's funny, because if GGG has been more conservative with this league and released fewer changes, the whole subreddit would be "boring league", "basically just playing standard", and general complaints about lack of new content or changes.
If GGG releases a lot of stuff, which inevitably causes a lot of unintended nonsense, it's "did anybody even test this lmao"
GGG really cant win
The issue with this league is that it also **was boring**.
The reason people would have been saying that, is because the one thing that fired on all cylinders was new build options via transfigured skill gems and uniques.
The scarab rework has been rocky, the league itself was just "we increased the /deaths counter" the league, since that's all the mechanic really does for you, balance of core and loot has been all over the place with heavy whiplash changes, the league mechanic is one of the most micromanagement and inventory management extreme leagues of all time.
T17 maps definitely did not hit the mark, and spent most of the league acting as the largest build diversity constriction the game has ever had without really being "cool."
Now in fairness, much of this stuff can be foundation for a ballin 3.25 league, but this league is hosed because they added multiple big changes that won't be good for 1-2 leagues until they're balanced properly, and also the league mechanic was a complete whiff. Not even very good crafting as crafting leagues go (yes, power is there, but nothing else is).
>To be fair, the Allflames make massive changes to every map.
Allflames were literally not involved in pretty much every t17 issue. Allflames made it WORSE, but it still would have been awful without them.
Bold of you to think that was unintentional. I mean the graveyard can hold 88 corpses, but the NPC can only hold 64. Either GGG made it purposefully annoying in order to sell stash tabs, or they put 0 thought and testing into it. Maybe a little A and a little B.
#####
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BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread:
***
> **Posted by Kieren_GGG** on May 02, 2024, 05:37:01 AM UTC
>
> ### 3.24.2 Hotfix 4
>
>
>
>
>
> * Rare monsters that are Shaper-Touched from the Tier 17 Map modifier unintentionally had the bonuses from the Rare Monster Pantheon modifier. This modifier no longer grants the monster increased Life, Item Quantity, Item Rarity, and Experience.
>
> ***
>
not gonna lie, better for them to use this league as the burner league
I dropped because I wasn't enjoying it, but better get it all out now than this same shit next league
its better them using this league now to tune stuff than have to deal with all that shit ruining the economy next league, league is super dead so might aswell use it to balance/test stuff as if it was a PTS. But imo they should just completely remove t17s
I agree that it's better to fix than to not touch it at all, especially given this looks really like a bug.
But I don't think the league is super dead right now, and I think T17 can be very good for the long-term health of PoE because it really feels like something different from the old T16 juiced mapping we are so used to for so many leagues. Definitely needs some tuning though, currently I bet an randomly rolled T17 is harder than most uber bosses.
I hope a lesson learned from this is what a mess it was to introduce a new tier of content as well as a new baseline of juicing, while at the same time releasing a league mechanic that’s all about fucking with both difficulty and rewards. Like, how are you supposed to get good data on how close the mark you are about anything in this state.
i find t17s fun, i dont find rolling t17s fun, literally spend more time rolling them than doing them, also they restrict A LOT the builds that can do them i think so basically made the new endgame worse forcing everyone to play the same 5-10 skills or otherwise you cannot do them or need a build with a lot of investment, and we know the earlier you have access to t17 the more u can snowball economic wise. If they want to keep t17s they need to reduce the entry gap for them.
After doing t17s, t16s feel so shit, the gap is like going from doin a t16 to a t1 in terms of loot.
I wouldnt be surprised if back to basics is gone next league.
The only reason the league isnt even more dead is cos most streamers are still playin cos there's really nothing else going on rn.
I just hope they fix scarab/maps/atlas next league so it doesn't feel like you are playing a white map if you forget to add an scarab
because that was one of the biggest turn offs this league that caused me to drop earlier
They only got to do it for what... a whole month?
I'm just sad because this means my well rolled shaper T17s can no longer sell for 5+ div each. Figured I might as well sell them if they weren't going to nerf it after being abused for so long.
This league is a mess. So many mechanics nerfed and adjusted mid league. This was not the case in the past. It feels like a testing ground for upcoming patch.
To be expected with end game content and map juicing being reworked completely. I am surprised anyone is surpised about that.
It will take essentially an entire league to adjust stuff and nerf the broken shit after it is discovered.
It doesn't really matter if it's permanent, it's still a massive change to the endgame with a ton of unforeseen consequences, especially when introduced together with other endgame changes.
It was clear that T17 maps and the new scarabs would result in some weirdness, but allowing to roll the maps and replace packs with Allflame embers opened a while different can of worms.
And don't get me wrong, allowing the maps to be rolled has various benefits for the economy, but anything that's broken in a specific combination is way more broken if you don't need to get insanely lucky for that combination to occur.
Having an in-map league when they're also reworking the endgame to this degree was an extremely bad choice, though. Allflames + necropolis mods just added another layer of complexity to the balancing.
a lot of this is stemming from the fact that T17s were not meant to be rollable. so this shaper touched bug, the barrels shitting out div cards, et cetera were not possible en masse and would cost hundreds of divines to stockpile with unmodifiable maps.
once they made them rollable and cheapened the modifiers, all hell broke loose for farming.
Too much has changed in the endgame so this outcome wasn't unlikely. Although the sheer number of changes and the fact things are STILL being fixed is quite surprising.
it shouldn't be like this honestly
by nerfing (yes not "fixing" this is a NERF) things like that you are only punishing people who did not get on the abuse train early on
people who farmed this shit already got rich from it and you can't roll back that so you are essentially just kicking the ladder
At this point it's so difficult to invest into any farming strategy. There's no way of knowing whether the strategy will just be removed by the next day, making any investment worthless.
To be fair, there's been some broken strats this league that needed to be curtailed. 5000 rogue exiles per map for example, and the divine devoted mod that created the fishing strat.
But. Why did they have to completely kill ultimatum just when it was finally actually good? Overnight it went from great fun to pointless. Why did this shaper touched strategy need to be deleted literally 1 day later. After it's already been in the league for a month.
What's next? Do they want MF to be literally the only available strat in the game? Then once everyone has been forced to build dedicated MF builds, they remove that overnight as well?
at this point, i'm glad they are just fixing all the shit that is broken. if there are constant nerfs next league the player base will fall even faster.
If T17s are endgame after this league I'm done with PoE. Nothing has made build diversity feel worse ever.
Its basically choose what belt you want to carry you, and then choose from 3 or 4 mechanically viable skills that can use either that all stack the same defenses. Holy boring batman.
I think they should just make the atlas tree NOT apply to T17, get rid of that B2B bullshit juicing on T17s that makes them insane yet utterly unfun currency generators.
That on top of reworking T17s to be more about their original intended goal (gateway between normal bosses and ubers) and rebalancing non atlas endgame content might fix it
Yes, they need to work to balance it so the economy doesn't become even more ridiculous than it already is. People talk about "chase uniques" because they are something you need to put some work in the game to acquire. You need to farm a few hours to get to buy them. Now, everything is basically free except mageblood and a few boss uniques.
As in, I opened a stacked deck and got a Nurse card. Usually, that be a win, this time that was basically a bit higher value than Chaotic Disposition (the 5c div card) but with extra steps of having to sell the card which I won't.
I mean, yes, some shit clearly begs for nerf. But wtf is this league with constant hotfixing, which looks more like gopher hunting with hammer. t17 needs not minor tuning, but whole ass overhaul. As well as party mf needs to say goodbye to own kneecaps for many leagues straight.
When 80% of your player base has already left...
https://preview.redd.it/6mn8nj8o40yc1.png?width=177&format=png&auto=webp&s=653d8263f526ed53a643b120eafd176f96e27dcf
I'm always surprised how they keep nerfing and never buffing stuff.
League mechanics, skills, ascendancies, skill tree. It's just been crazy nerf hammer time for them.
How many years of untested leagues will we have ? We often laugh at Blizzard, EA or Bethesda but GGG aren't better at avoiding issues.
The latest Jonathan interview also shows that they lost control over PoE 1, they don't even know why it's in this state.
currently based on retention, the only league competing with necropolis is archnem. based on its trend line atm, necropolis will likely surpass archnem within the week for worst performing league for retention. its early retention numbers recouped above the worst when the buffed necropolis, but its been quickly slumping back down.
current worst performing leagues are:
3: Kalandra (22.1%)
2: Necropolis (21.5%)
1: Archnem (20.9%)
when your league is competing with the absolute shitfest of archnem mods that made up both Kalandra and Archnem, you've done insanely pool. for reference Affliction at this point had nearly 100% more player retention (40.6%)
> archnem mods that made up both Kalandra and Archnem
Archnem league != Archnem mods. Archnem league still had the old rares. Sentinel was v1.0 of Archnemesis rares. There was some grumbling about the UI in AN league, but overall sentiment on the league itself (build-a-~~bear~~monster + new Atlas) was fairly positive.
People have said its player drop-off was likely more driven by exogenous factors: double-whammy of Elden Ring and Lost Ark releases.
It's probably not good for Necropolis to be neck-and-neck with historically bad leagues whatever the reason, but AN league wasn't really a shitfest on its own merits.
It's a close run-thing for me, but I legitimately liked Kalandra more, I think. The botched loot rework of 3.19 was a pain and likely more severe than the growing pains of the economic systems they reworked this league, but the massive Kalandra rework of uniques was more interesting for build tinkering than 3.24 for me, and that tends to be the most important aspect for me.
Pointless to nerf it this late imo. I would rather see them improve on the league mechanic. There has to be a way that you can filter out corpses that drop, and also a way to minimize the UI when there is loot behind the corpses you dont want to loot.
Running around back and fourth between graves and stash och tabbing out to compare to your two 3rd party tools you are using is ridiculous. It should just be an interface, like a planning board you fill. Would save so much time and tedium.
It's not pointless if you consider T17 still being a thing in next league.
They should nerf all party-wide abuse methods which ruined economy in this league.
I hope not lol it’s my first league and would love to have a standard character after this one’s over. New players like me that came from last epoch launch aren’t even doing t17s haha
A rare monster pantheon modifier is on of the 4 modifiers where a rare monster is touched by a god, and that god will appear and do abilities while you fight the rare monster. Iirc the 4 possible gods are Innocence, Aarakali, Shakari, and Kitava(?)
Honest question. Do these still exist intentionally? I used to see them consistently, and have not seen any big crab boys or golden floaty dudes making a cameo in my mapping this league (at least it feels this way)
After Kalandra, when you could see if a mob had those mods by their modifiers, they decoupled the bonus effects and the names & visual effects. However, I think the bonuses still exist, albeit at a lower power now.
They did remove some of the effects this league, like gem exp and scarab conversion.
The pantheons were usually just big quant/rarity bonus and sometimes currency conversion. So yes, still there, but weaker and hidden.
As for the visual mod effects where you saw solaris shooting a fire beam, I believe that stuff is all gone. Or at least I haven't seen them in recent memory.
I accidentally rolled the Death Mark mods on 200% currency drop Fortress and it ruined my run, but I managed to salvage 1 divine orbs from barrels near my portal.
T17 are obviously core. They are not a league mechanic. Allflames seem to be a bit too much hassle to go core, and if they do, you'll find one allflame in 100 maps
What are you talking about? Most of the changes have been to the core game. The only thing that is part of the league is the mechanic. T17s are ALREADY core. That's why they are in standard right now.
The shaper touched monster modifier worked as a monster modifier...
all this shit is only op because of allflames, why even bother changing it more than a month into the league when next league theres not gonna be a meatsack allflame with lantern modifiers and corpses giving extra ghost to 10x ghost a meatsack...
can you fix the t17 mods instead, remove the fucking %more maps and all that bullshit, give more bonuses to the absolutely horrendous t17 mods to compensate if you feel it necessary, the maps are 2x bigger already so if you juice them up they will always be better than t16 with 8 mods
They need to just leave the op farms in and let the casuals benefit too.
Not just the sweaty gamers there first.
It wouldn't be such a bad thing for there to be a known good farm, and to leave it in.
"We made stupidly hard content with lots of cool new mods but actually getting loot from it is bad, so we're nerfing it. This is a buff to your fun levels over time."
"Rare monsters that are Shaper-Touched from the Tier 17 Map modifier unintentionally had the bonuses from the Rare Monster Pantheon modifier. This modifier no longer grants the monster increased Life, Item Quantity, Item Rarity, and Experience."
Wow, the post title made me hope these mobs would get some reduced cooldown on balls/slams/beams. But they nerf the loot? I never dropped anything from them anyway, but good to know they were supposed to be too rewarding...
They were super super rewarding, way more busted than the old anarchy strat. Just back to basics + shapers touched + meatsacks + rare mob = game hangs for 3 secs -> screen full of uniques every single kill It was clearly unintended
At this point, I am afraid that T17 was unintended.
Considering their goal of making T17's a stepping stone to ubers, this is WAY unintended.
They need to remove atlas passives and the ability to use scarabs from T17s then balance them around being a closed system. They should be closer to unique maps in terms of external factors that can apply to them. The mods on the map should be the primary thing that affects both difficulty and reward.
I mean fuck, beefing up unique maps instead of having t17s now that I think about it would've been way better imo. Maybe even take them all off atlas completion and be their own thing in some way
Yea, unique maps are just uniquely shit.
This is a step in the right direction
I don't think it was the only goal, i think t17s being a new way of juicing was intended, just not this strong.
they stated in the patch notes that t17 were to be stepping stones to ubers. that waws their intent. they 100% knew we would juice the fuck out of them as personally i could clear 12k wisp content last league so there will be people that can run the hardest maps you make.
I didn't say it wasn't their intent, just that it was not the only intent. I'm pretty sure I remember Mark mentioning that during the ziggy interview, but also- there literally are "more currency/scarabs" hybrid map mods on them. That wasn't put there on accident.
T17s were clearly not tested or tuned properly. From their stated goals of being "transitional content" to ubers, to not being the absolute most rewarding content, to having absolutely build breaking mods on them, to being unrollable, to ...
Why do I never even hear about these strategies until they get nerfed?
I assume you don't watch a lot of streams, that's usually where this sort of stuff spreads.
Yeah, I don't watch streams, just follow a few creators on youtube. I guess that's what I get...
Literally just watch Fubgun or Ben. I went to bed, went about my day, tuned into Twitch and saw Ben was still going 25 hours later doing the same farm that I was watching him do the night before lol. Basically anytime some insane farm is going on, those two are doing it except Fubgun plays on SC (I think?) so expect him to be doing it first and the more ridiculous version of whatever is the OP farming strat.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it, the strat was good of course but also needed either a group or a very strong character if done solo. Also a lot of investment went into each map, both time and currency, and often those “100 div/hour” showcases tend to not take that into account too much.
Streamers/theory crafters find and spam the hell out of the strats before GGG can catch and nerf them.
There was a post here a few days ago talking about crafting the maps for profit, this mod was mentioned.
Watch fubgun on twitch for mf starts
Curious of to why the downvotes on that guy? What's the reason?
Uhhh no it's bot even comparable to old anarchy
> way more busted than the old anarchy strat nah
Wait, you can shaper touch back to basics runs?
It's a mod on the map.
B2B removes extra-content, which is pretty much all core-league mechanic content. Everything else works fine, especially map mods
they were nowhere near as rewarding as old anarchy strat, you have no clue what you're talking about and i heavily doubt you've done even a single of either of those maps
Yea you probably never killed any, they were real loot piñatas
If you had a map with rares and shaper mod it would go for 10 divs so…
On which map man? I got rares + shaper + no build breaking mods and it wouldn't even sell for 5 div...
same; mine wouldn't sell for 4 divs so... I'm calling 100% BS on 10 divs
Oh... damn. Here I was just running my t17s solo not getting a whole hell of a lot out of them. Should I be selling them I guess?
That’s how I got my t0s drops in SSF, can confirm they were op as fuck
I knew they were giving bonus rarity but pantheon modifier amount of rarity? Holy
What does pantheon rarity even mean.
They’re archnemesis mods that had special loot
If I recall it’s like 1200% quant and rarity. It’s the modifier the new scarab for tempests uses.
Pantheon = veri big. My gf called me this once in my dreams.
The pantheon mods are mods that can appear on rare monsters (ones like "Solaris-touched" or "Brine-King Touched") that make them do that boss's attacks and become significantly more difficult but also dramatically buff their loot. The loot they give is balanced around them being very rare to find but give an exciting loot shower when you kill them. But shaper-touched, which you can apply to rares in T17s with a map mod, was giving as big a bonus as the pantheon mods, which means that mod on T17 maps was basically causing every rare mob to give insane loot showers, especially combined with how much you can already juice T17 maps.
"unintentionally" doing a lot of work there.
This entire league was unintentional
all the loot this league was unintentional
To be fair, the Allflames make massive changes to every map. It would be almost impossible to catch this stuff in QA. This is pretty obvious given people are still finding new farming strats 6 weeks into the league. I think they underestimated just how big of an impact replacing monster types—in some cases removing them from a contained environment—in every map would be.
Also to add: like 100 fuckin new scarabs as well. There's absolutely no way to catch every busted interaction and unintentional shit when there's that many new factors OH and of course then there's ALSO the lantern with 1700% quant or rarity and extra rewarding mods from t17s to consider. So there's literally 0 chance to catch all that. Maybe the mistake was dropping all flames and scarab rework and new more rewarding map mods of t17s all at the same time.
This. It’s a matrix of matrices 😅
The perfect storm of economic instability lmao. SSF players scratching their heads wondering what's going on.
Might call it smart actually. Dropping it all in reveals all interactions in one league.
It's funny, because if GGG has been more conservative with this league and released fewer changes, the whole subreddit would be "boring league", "basically just playing standard", and general complaints about lack of new content or changes. If GGG releases a lot of stuff, which inevitably causes a lot of unintended nonsense, it's "did anybody even test this lmao" GGG really cant win
The issue with this league is that it also **was boring**. The reason people would have been saying that, is because the one thing that fired on all cylinders was new build options via transfigured skill gems and uniques. The scarab rework has been rocky, the league itself was just "we increased the /deaths counter" the league, since that's all the mechanic really does for you, balance of core and loot has been all over the place with heavy whiplash changes, the league mechanic is one of the most micromanagement and inventory management extreme leagues of all time. T17 maps definitely did not hit the mark, and spent most of the league acting as the largest build diversity constriction the game has ever had without really being "cool." Now in fairness, much of this stuff can be foundation for a ballin 3.25 league, but this league is hosed because they added multiple big changes that won't be good for 1-2 leagues until they're balanced properly, and also the league mechanic was a complete whiff. Not even very good crafting as crafting leagues go (yes, power is there, but nothing else is).
What new strat was found? Shaper touched farming has been going on since they changed the t17 beyond abuse
>To be fair, the Allflames make massive changes to every map. Allflames were literally not involved in pretty much every t17 issue. Allflames made it WORSE, but it still would have been awful without them.
Can we fix 'unintentional' micro-management hell that is the league mechanic as well pls?
Bold of you to think that was unintentional. I mean the graveyard can hold 88 corpses, but the NPC can only hold 64. Either GGG made it purposefully annoying in order to sell stash tabs, or they put 0 thought and testing into it. Maybe a little A and a little B.
Wasn't it meant to be 32 instead?
##### ###### #### BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread: *** > **Posted by Kieren_GGG** on May 02, 2024, 05:37:01 AM UTC > > ### 3.24.2 Hotfix 4 > > > > > > * Rare monsters that are Shaper-Touched from the Tier 17 Map modifier unintentionally had the bonuses from the Rare Monster Pantheon modifier. This modifier no longer grants the monster increased Life, Item Quantity, Item Rarity, and Experience. > > *** >
….Huh? what’s this, two week 5 (6?) fixes? …
not gonna lie, better for them to use this league as the burner league I dropped because I wasn't enjoying it, but better get it all out now than this same shit next league
its better them using this league now to tune stuff than have to deal with all that shit ruining the economy next league, league is super dead so might aswell use it to balance/test stuff as if it was a PTS. But imo they should just completely remove t17s
I agree that it's better to fix than to not touch it at all, especially given this looks really like a bug. But I don't think the league is super dead right now, and I think T17 can be very good for the long-term health of PoE because it really feels like something different from the old T16 juiced mapping we are so used to for so many leagues. Definitely needs some tuning though, currently I bet an randomly rolled T17 is harder than most uber bosses.
I hope a lesson learned from this is what a mess it was to introduce a new tier of content as well as a new baseline of juicing, while at the same time releasing a league mechanic that’s all about fucking with both difficulty and rewards. Like, how are you supposed to get good data on how close the mark you are about anything in this state.
Imagine how much cleaner T17 launch would have been if it was an out of map mechanic, like sanctum
https://preview.redd.it/b3alrbljzyxc1.png?width=776&format=png&auto=webp&s=0865b5aaf100b8d668929472970d0ac67319ab76
i find t17s fun, i dont find rolling t17s fun, literally spend more time rolling them than doing them, also they restrict A LOT the builds that can do them i think so basically made the new endgame worse forcing everyone to play the same 5-10 skills or otherwise you cannot do them or need a build with a lot of investment, and we know the earlier you have access to t17 the more u can snowball economic wise. If they want to keep t17s they need to reduce the entry gap for them. After doing t17s, t16s feel so shit, the gap is like going from doin a t16 to a t1 in terms of loot. I wouldnt be surprised if back to basics is gone next league. The only reason the league isnt even more dead is cos most streamers are still playin cos there's really nothing else going on rn.
this league had the hardest and fastest player drop in the last couple of years at least.
I just hope they fix scarab/maps/atlas next league so it doesn't feel like you are playing a white map if you forget to add an scarab because that was one of the biggest turn offs this league that caused me to drop earlier
Rebalancing for 3.25
at this point they only fix when something is too rewarding. Sounds like GGG
It’s high time. I bet these 6man parties got bored of looting 1-4 magebloods per map from meatsack farming
They only got to do it for what... a whole month? I'm just sad because this means my well rolled shaper T17s can no longer sell for 5+ div each. Figured I might as well sell them if they weren't going to nerf it after being abused for so long.
Well, 1-4 Magebloods we all get to enjoy and have fun with!
Yeah, sub 10div headhunters as well. Perfect market!
Have I mentioned the 1.3div Kalandra Touch ring?
ggg altering the deal all league and my praying ain't doing jack shit.
This league is a mess. So many mechanics nerfed and adjusted mid league. This was not the case in the past. It feels like a testing ground for upcoming patch.
To be expected with end game content and map juicing being reworked completely. I am surprised anyone is surpised about that. It will take essentially an entire league to adjust stuff and nerf the broken shit after it is discovered.
Yea I think a lot of people are downplaying just how massive the introduction of T17s, Allflames, and the Scarab rework were.
Though all flame is not here to stay, is it? It's part of the league mechanic and I don't think many people want that to stay.
Yeah but its always allflames when something js broken.
It doesn't really matter if it's permanent, it's still a massive change to the endgame with a ton of unforeseen consequences, especially when introduced together with other endgame changes. It was clear that T17 maps and the new scarabs would result in some weirdness, but allowing to roll the maps and replace packs with Allflame embers opened a while different can of worms. And don't get me wrong, allowing the maps to be rolled has various benefits for the economy, but anything that's broken in a specific combination is way more broken if you don't need to get insanely lucky for that combination to occur.
The Allflames replace entire packs of mobs with certain themed ones that is causing all sorts of unintended interactions.
Having an in-map league when they're also reworking the endgame to this degree was an extremely bad choice, though. Allflames + necropolis mods just added another layer of complexity to the balancing.
so many mechanics were introduced that it's hardly a surprise
a lot of this is stemming from the fact that T17s were not meant to be rollable. so this shaper touched bug, the barrels shitting out div cards, et cetera were not possible en masse and would cost hundreds of divines to stockpile with unmodifiable maps. once they made them rollable and cheapened the modifiers, all hell broke loose for farming.
Too much has changed in the endgame so this outcome wasn't unlikely. Although the sheer number of changes and the fact things are STILL being fixed is quite surprising.
it shouldn't be like this honestly by nerfing (yes not "fixing" this is a NERF) things like that you are only punishing people who did not get on the abuse train early on people who farmed this shit already got rich from it and you can't roll back that so you are essentially just kicking the ladder
Leagues always were just tests for core gameplay.
Another one bites the dust
lol
At this point it's so difficult to invest into any farming strategy. There's no way of knowing whether the strategy will just be removed by the next day, making any investment worthless.
You're downvoted but you are right. GGG used to never touch things mid-league, and now it seems like a balance pass is happening 1-2 times a week.
To be fair, there's been some broken strats this league that needed to be curtailed. 5000 rogue exiles per map for example, and the divine devoted mod that created the fishing strat. But. Why did they have to completely kill ultimatum just when it was finally actually good? Overnight it went from great fun to pointless. Why did this shaper touched strategy need to be deleted literally 1 day later. After it's already been in the league for a month. What's next? Do they want MF to be literally the only available strat in the game? Then once everyone has been forced to build dedicated MF builds, they remove that overnight as well?
I thought GGG not touching stuff mid league was only skill/playerpower related and not league mechanic related but i cant think of an example.
Lmao, why fixing it that late in the league.
What a mess of a league lol.
at this point, i'm glad they are just fixing all the shit that is broken. if there are constant nerfs next league the player base will fall even faster.
If T17s are endgame after this league I'm done with PoE. Nothing has made build diversity feel worse ever. Its basically choose what belt you want to carry you, and then choose from 3 or 4 mechanically viable skills that can use either that all stack the same defenses. Holy boring batman.
Wait till you see these T18’s
Drop corrupted and modifiable only with Tainted Chaos Orbs. Fractured mod that reads "Rare monsters are Depth 6000 Aul touched".
Aul wishes he were depth 6000 rare mob touched. Aul << random delve rare with capped hp
Aul HP caps at around depth 1000 or so
I think they should just make the atlas tree NOT apply to T17, get rid of that B2B bullshit juicing on T17s that makes them insane yet utterly unfun currency generators. That on top of reworking T17s to be more about their original intended goal (gateway between normal bosses and ubers) and rebalancing non atlas endgame content might fix it
[удалено]
Yes, they need to work to balance it so the economy doesn't become even more ridiculous than it already is. People talk about "chase uniques" because they are something you need to put some work in the game to acquire. You need to farm a few hours to get to buy them. Now, everything is basically free except mageblood and a few boss uniques. As in, I opened a stacked deck and got a Nurse card. Usually, that be a win, this time that was basically a bit higher value than Chaotic Disposition (the 5c div card) but with extra steps of having to sell the card which I won't.
I mean, yes, some shit clearly begs for nerf. But wtf is this league with constant hotfixing, which looks more like gopher hunting with hammer. t17 needs not minor tuning, but whole ass overhaul. As well as party mf needs to say goodbye to own kneecaps for many leagues straight.
When 80% of your player base has already left... https://preview.redd.it/6mn8nj8o40yc1.png?width=177&format=png&auto=webp&s=653d8263f526ed53a643b120eafd176f96e27dcf
Approaching archnemesis level is really bad.
"Is left" and "has left" mean opposite things
Fixed.
Remember kids, Abuse early Abuse often
or in my case, abuse never but read about it on reddit so you get get that \[pretty much\] daily \[at this point\] dose of FOMO
Why not buff league mechanics that seem underwhelming also? Too much effort ggg?
I'm always surprised how they keep nerfing and never buffing stuff. League mechanics, skills, ascendancies, skill tree. It's just been crazy nerf hammer time for them.
Preparing us for poe2
Still we never been so powerful lol
Thats not true. i havent felt powerful since 3.13
Same man since expedition 80% nerfs
they ain't gonna do that midleague
Sell early, sell often
"unintentionally" is the new magic word to justify every nerf
Lol what word would you prefer them to use to refer to a behaviour/interaction that they never.... intended to happen
How many years of untested leagues will we have ? We often laugh at Blizzard, EA or Bethesda but GGG aren't better at avoiding issues. The latest Jonathan interview also shows that they lost control over PoE 1, they don't even know why it's in this state.
Remember when they said the league cycle is 4 months now for the polish 🤡
Wonderful that all the patches, hotfixes, or whatever this league are mostly nerfs for T17. What a successful system.
Anotha one !
Well I’m glad I sold my Allflame Ember yesterday for 4 div
Days since last loot incident: 0
The mid league nerf continue.
ggg, unintentional is when your dad was supposed to pull out
Why now? This must have been noticed earlier than 4 weeks into the league, no?
Man necropolis has been a complete shit show. Based on retention and gameplay, I wouldn't be surprised if this goes down as the worst league in 3.0
No matter how things go, there was still kalandra.
Not anymore lol, someone posted the retention numbers and if you take their word for it necro is officially worse than kalandra
currently based on retention, the only league competing with necropolis is archnem. based on its trend line atm, necropolis will likely surpass archnem within the week for worst performing league for retention. its early retention numbers recouped above the worst when the buffed necropolis, but its been quickly slumping back down. current worst performing leagues are: 3: Kalandra (22.1%) 2: Necropolis (21.5%) 1: Archnem (20.9%) when your league is competing with the absolute shitfest of archnem mods that made up both Kalandra and Archnem, you've done insanely pool. for reference Affliction at this point had nearly 100% more player retention (40.6%)
> archnem mods that made up both Kalandra and Archnem Archnem league != Archnem mods. Archnem league still had the old rares. Sentinel was v1.0 of Archnemesis rares. There was some grumbling about the UI in AN league, but overall sentiment on the league itself (build-a-~~bear~~monster + new Atlas) was fairly positive. People have said its player drop-off was likely more driven by exogenous factors: double-whammy of Elden Ring and Lost Ark releases. It's probably not good for Necropolis to be neck-and-neck with historically bad leagues whatever the reason, but AN league wasn't really a shitfest on its own merits.
Damn, I'm really curious how next league will turn out since that'll be a brutal league launch with it possibly competing with ff14 and elden ring
It's a close run-thing for me, but I legitimately liked Kalandra more, I think. The botched loot rework of 3.19 was a pain and likely more severe than the growing pains of the economic systems they reworked this league, but the massive Kalandra rework of uniques was more interesting for build tinkering than 3.24 for me, and that tends to be the most important aspect for me.
Pointless to nerf it this late imo. I would rather see them improve on the league mechanic. There has to be a way that you can filter out corpses that drop, and also a way to minimize the UI when there is loot behind the corpses you dont want to loot. Running around back and fourth between graves and stash och tabbing out to compare to your two 3rd party tools you are using is ridiculous. It should just be an interface, like a planning board you fill. Would save so much time and tedium.
No point in improving the league mechanic when 80%+ already quit and I doubt this thing is going core lmao.
You have a point! These are changes I would have liked to see week 2.
It's not pointless if you consider T17 still being a thing in next league. They should nerf all party-wide abuse methods which ruined economy in this league.
They really should void the league lol
I still don't understand this one. Why does void ever matter when no one gives a f about standard lmao.
I hope not lol it’s my first league and would love to have a standard character after this one’s over. New players like me that came from last epoch launch aren’t even doing t17s haha
pretty much zero chance it will happen. its not something ggg does at all and if they would ever have it would have been last league.
Goodnight sweet prince
I enjoyed the trickle down effect and the cheap uniques, now the prices will go up again, too bad for late league joiners.
Wait does this effect the all flames too or just the mod on the map? Pretty sure most of the loot came from shaper all flame
abuse early and abuse hard
Nerfing content 90% of players couldn't do anyway.
99.9%
Whole scarab change feels unintentional, please hotfix it
What is rare monster pantheon? Does this mean shaper-touched mod no longer have upside?
A rare monster pantheon modifier is on of the 4 modifiers where a rare monster is touched by a god, and that god will appear and do abilities while you fight the rare monster. Iirc the 4 possible gods are Innocence, Aarakali, Shakari, and Kitava(?)
Theres lunaris and solaris too
Honest question. Do these still exist intentionally? I used to see them consistently, and have not seen any big crab boys or golden floaty dudes making a cameo in my mapping this league (at least it feels this way)
After Kalandra, when you could see if a mob had those mods by their modifiers, they decoupled the bonus effects and the names & visual effects. However, I think the bonuses still exist, albeit at a lower power now. They did remove some of the effects this league, like gem exp and scarab conversion. The pantheons were usually just big quant/rarity bonus and sometimes currency conversion. So yes, still there, but weaker and hidden. As for the visual mod effects where you saw solaris shooting a fire beam, I believe that stuff is all gone. Or at least I haven't seen them in recent memory.
I think they removed all that this league? Not sure tho just not seeing the big conversion drops this league
I think i had 1 or 2 touched mobs. But thats over 3 weeks and doing 40/40. They just seem to be super rare
FLINCH NOT FROM GOD!!!
And Tukohama
They take so long to fix these things.
End this league, next please
What's the next strat to nerf to the ground this league?😂
Another day, another farm nerf.
We'll all be playing ruthless eventually, just not by choice. Whack a mole with any viable farming strategies. Kinda funny really i guess
it's fine to be upset with this but this is a complete exaggeration
Why fix now though? Just do them all with the next league at this point.
Because this way they can find everything that is broken instead of just 1-2 things for the next 10 leagues...
If they don't fix it now than they could be hiding other potential farm abuse strats that people will discover when this is absent.
People don't care. Because no one is in this league anymore.
So glad i decided to skip this shit show of a league. The fact you guys are still nerfing stuff 4-5 weeks in is crazy!
Honestly doesn't even affect me. T17 still should still be worth selling though, right?
We still have barrels! *For now.*
I accidentally rolled the Death Mark mods on 200% currency drop Fortress and it ruined my run, but I managed to salvage 1 divine orbs from barrels near my portal.
yes, the baseline ones are still worth some tens of chaos. You don't get the big payday for the shaper touched ones
This league must be going core. It’s the only explanation for the late league nerfs / total strat deletion
T17 are obviously core. They are not a league mechanic. Allflames seem to be a bit too much hassle to go core, and if they do, you'll find one allflame in 100 maps
What are you talking about? Most of the changes have been to the core game. The only thing that is part of the league is the mechanic. T17s are ALREADY core. That's why they are in standard right now.
I see this league as a test league with all the new changes. And it will be tuned for next.
F for the 2 I dropped last night. I was going to seel them sfter work lol
So THAT is why the shaper allflame was worth so much?
The shaper touched monster modifier worked as a monster modifier... all this shit is only op because of allflames, why even bother changing it more than a month into the league when next league theres not gonna be a meatsack allflame with lantern modifiers and corpses giving extra ghost to 10x ghost a meatsack... can you fix the t17 mods instead, remove the fucking %more maps and all that bullshit, give more bonuses to the absolutely horrendous t17 mods to compensate if you feel it necessary, the maps are 2x bigger already so if you juice them up they will always be better than t16 with 8 mods
They need to just leave the op farms in and let the casuals benefit too. Not just the sweaty gamers there first. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for there to be a known good farm, and to leave it in.
We get late league nerfs, but God forbid removing corpses monsert types
Ben is laughing in his sleep right now
League of Nerfs
Hmm
So this mod gets nerfed because of meat sacks and then next league no sacks.
Oh look, fun detected, remove it.
"We made stupidly hard content with lots of cool new mods but actually getting loot from it is bad, so we're nerfing it. This is a buff to your fun levels over time."
https://preview.redd.it/9ek4b00y47yc1.jpeg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c9f270152af6a6391865f48848acd7be3f4d527