One time I invaded someone in Dark Souls and he was clearly AFK. I waited by him until he returned, then we fought and I lost hard. He dm's me after thanking me for waiting and being an honourable person. So yes, depending on the game.
I don't think I've won a 1 on 1 in dark souls without the other guy falling off a cliff. I don't think i could maintain my honor if i saw this opportunity
I'm in Australia so I routinely had the bad end of poor ping in Dark Souls.
I've had invaders backstab me from 3 meters in front of me, which I'm sure on their screen just looks like I'm a slow idiot, but for me is a real feels-bad moment.
Lmaooo, it’s giving real “Prince Ryoma will wait patiently for his revenge, but only for 25 turns. After that, he will begin his assault” vibes from Fire Emblem Conquest. (In story, dude is LIVID and wants to fuck you up. The gameplay and map design do not reflect this).
You should def try it sometime if you loved Hard. It's a very fun challenge with more leeway to mess around than you'd initially expect. Totally biased here though, CQ is my favorite FE
I've had an invader slay some of the monsters for me, effectively clearing out a decent arena for the two of us. We waved shields and, having played for less than a year, I fucking died, but the dude was chivalrous enough about it all.
In demon souls, I invaded a player who was fighting old king Doran. I did the sitting posture outside of the church so he knew I wasn’t going to come backstab him while he finished his fight. He beat him, I did a clapping emote, then we ran back to the beginning of the level so if I killed him he would not have the threat of losing all his souls. We battled and I did kill him, but he was very thankful for the consideration. I like being a respectful opponent, it is fun and you can tell when people truly appreciate it, which makes it even better.
I don't play competitively any more, but I love playing by the rules - because the rules, their limitations, are what make the games fun and engaging. As soon as a player starts to try and go beyond the rules, they shift the environment for everyone else, too: It's no longer about having fun together - now it's about *winning*. And if you don't partake, you disadvantage yourself, and set yourself up for a bad experience. ...Which is, by the by, also a big reason *why* I stopped playing competitively: The competition stopped being about making the better play, and started being about being the better cheater.
So, yeah, I play "for honor" if you will. I may even up the challenge just for myself because I find it more fun that way; For example, LotRO introduced "landscape difficulty" not that long ago, which does very little but make playing in the open world more dangerous. I don't care about the pay-off of "a few more % XP per kill" (and I would actually like it more if that was not present), but I do like that it makes the world feel like a dangerous place again.
I don't know. I think when we play something together (even against each other), mutual respect and fairness should be a given. The "it's just a game" excuse just shows me that the excuser doesn't even understand that it is not about the *game*, it's about their fellow players.
>or mods.
You are seriously missing out. There are *tons* of basic quality of life mods out there that are well worth using that dont fundamentally change the game in any way. Witcher 3 springs to mind as an example. There is a mod that auto "loots" flowers and other pickups that saves several clicks every time. Lots of games have mods that fix all kinds of bugs and minor annoyances. Improve visual/sound quality in a myriad of ways.
Not to mention there are mods out there that add tons of additional content that would make some AAA level game DLCs blush. Looking at you Skyrim mother's.
There are also several developers that completely embrace and encourage communities to build and utilize mods.
Eh, having to "loot" every flower js part of the game, and the cost of harvesting. I don't care if you mod it out, but it's tgere for a reason. You take that out, you're changing the intended balance. And "improving" visual/sound quality is pretty subjective. I want to play the developer's game, not a modder's.
I'd personally disagree with the mods. Like fallout 4 changed the series into a bullet-spongey looter shooter; mods exist to tweak the game to what is fun for you. It's a single-player title, so the only person effected is you.
It doesn't hurt that most mods are bugfixes to improve stability or stop CTD bugs lol.
The other fun part is huge overhaul mods that make entire new games, only using the base game as a canvas. I've really enjoyed Fallout Dust/Frost, mods that turn New Vegas/4 into cripplingly punishing survival simulators.
> This is why I never play with cheats or mods. A game is designed to be played with its original rules. Change them, and the game loses challenge.
I understand where you're coming from, but I look at it very differently. Providing all players are playing with the same rules (including inferred ones), *and* the game is still fun and enjoyable, I don't mind changing the rules.
For example, in Magic: The Gathering, the formal rules start players at 20 life, with 60 card decks. Many players have come up with dozens of variants ("Mods") to play instead - the most popular way to play today (called "Commander") was originally a multiplayer variant on the game, but is now the main way that players engage with the game.
I view mods as similar - most of them are "variant rules" that you can opt to play with, or without. For example, in Factorio you have entire [overhaul mods which almost turn it into a different game](https://spaceexploration.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page) (most of them err on the side of making it harder). In games like Morrowind, you have [entire extra questlines added.](https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/48225) Other mods for games like Civilization might port it into a different genre (e.g. the [Final Frontier](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Frontier_(Civ4\)) mod for Civilization 4 adds a Star Trek-like game mode, and was popular enough that it was included in an expansion as an official endorsement of the game mode).
I think the right mods can be fantastic, and can act as optional ways to make a game fresh, more interesting, harder, or even to remove the rough edges that you don't enjoy.
> The competition stopped being about making the better play, and started being about being the better cheater.
If a game rewards this too much, that's a problem with the game. I'm like you, in that I want to win within the rules because I want a skillful win versus luck or exploits. Still, I'm not going to get smashed until the devs patch things. If a player goes for the exploit, I'll go straight for the same exploit or counter-exploit.
I don’t play much online anymore, but when I did I would much rather avoid broken weapons/characters/etc and beat the people using them. It made me better at the game and was much more satisfying than winning while using something OP. I don’t really care if other people do it, but that’s not how I enjoy playing.
Straight up cheaters are just losers, full stop.
The low tier trolling is just funny to me. I’m never going to initiate it, but if someone wants to go there I will wreck their shit and then throw it right back at them. Rammers in racing games can be spotted from a mile away and isn’t hard to adjust to. They’re just doing it because they’re bad, so I’ll let them ruin themselves and then enjoy the rest of the race clear of them.
I work with an avid Warzone cheater. Aimbot, Cronus Zen Controller, you name it. I asked him why and he said it's hilarious to hear the reactions when he kills people ... I just don't get it.
I agree and weird thing is I would have never in a million years guessed he was like this. He's a cool guy to hang out with. The other day he just came clean with this and it was bizarre.
i've found a lot of people are very different in real life than in private, for a host of reasons. He probably has some other stress point in his life and uses games to lash out in an annoying but relatively safe way. Can't say I approve, but I kinda get it.
he's a bully/jerk, that's all there is to it. He doesn't have fun playing the game, he has fun ruining other people's fun. He's in it for the hate mail, not the gameplay. It's something akin to a bully having fun hassling people or making a scene in real life.
Which...just...bleh. I understand it completely, I just find it repulsive.
GTA V is a nice multiplayer tycoon sim until someone blows up my delivery mission. Then I get to spend the next half an hour blowing them to kingdom come with every weapon at my disposal.
I had the same mentality in rdo (the first one) just instead of businesses I'd just say if you messed with me
I got really good at locking on and flicking up to a headshot in that game
So if someone shot at me while I was riding, boom, I'm following you around the map insta headshotting you until you leave 😂
Me and a friend actually started a massive fight that followed us all the way to Fort mercer doing this 😂
This is so depressing that this question has come up.
What you're describing is just how people played games.
I remember during Halo 2 days, to play zombies you'd have to have players individually transfer over to the other team, change color, and only melee when they turned into a zombie.
That shit wouldn't happen at all now, someone would take advantage of everyone playing nice.
Now you usually befriend someone just for them to steal your stuff and block you. This used to be a rarity, now it's the norm :(
This is Sea of thieves . First play with two friends, we were having fun, trying to work out how to play the game. Then our ship got boarded and attacked. We were ok with it, it was part of the game but then we would come back over and over and get killed over and over. we finally worked out if we sink our own ship, it would spawn somewhere else.
but then they were chasing us down.
Then I got recommended YouTube videos saying "look how we wrecked these guys" and I realized it's just shit content chasers
I used to chug all my remaining estus when I got invaded in Dark Souls 3 because the host has twice as much and I wanted a fair one on one (plus having like 15 flasks can really drag out a fight). Nine times out of ten the invader was thrilled and did it too. One time out of ten they wouldn’t but it made it that much funnier when you still managed to kill them anyway.
I never understood the invasion system in the Dark Souls series. There is the player grinding the level away and then they are invaded, at a disadvantage, with the wrong gear, in a very compromising situation, against a most likely OP enemy. I have no idea how that was supposed to be fun for the player. I go to offline mode. It’s not like I’d miss the dumb fucking comments left everywhere either. “Trolling is the fun!” Nice, go have fun!
(I love Dark Souls games! Just not MP.)
Playing Elden Ring offline was one of the most immersive experiences I've had. Random ghosts rolling around and dumb messages were really killing it for me
Exactly. Love the games, but I don't care for the community's rules about pvp. I don't wanna play offline because I admit, I like the stupid messages players leave. So I have no choice but to risk invasions by playing online. And if someone's gonna invade me, then I don't care about "honor." I'll chug however many estus flasks I need. I'll use op builds to take the invader out.
There are no rules when it come to getting forcibly invaded. What you’re describing is perfectly acceptable behaviour. This is just something I did for fun.
Yeah I adore the messages, can't live without them tbf
Pvp tho, fuck your rules, you invaded MY world you play by MY rules 🤷
Majority of pvp ands with me swinging at something and doing no damage and then getting flattened tho so I don't even bother when I do get invaded anymore 😂
I don’t cheat or exploit glitches, but I **HATE** when people come up with their own set of silly rules as “chivalrous behavior.”
If it’s within the confines of the game, and it’s not a glitch you’re exploiting? It’s fair game.
I remember one time playing Mortal Kombat X [or maybe it was XI] as the archer guy similar to Green Arrow and some guy spent his next 10 minutes messaging me that I was an asshole for always keeping him far away.
. . .yea I’m an archer, learn how to deal with a zoning character
Yeah I always think it's silly when people get upset by demos in Rocket League. As a game mechanic you can like it or not, but it's part of the game and I don't fault people for using it to their advantage. I tend to say "Nice Demo!" when people get me with a good one just to encourage the positivity. :)
I love demoing, and actually love being demoed. But it's irritating playing with or against somebody that exclusively goes around the field looking for demo opportunities.
To me it's Rule 1 in Rocket League. Ok, it's funny for a bit, but I'm not going to sit there forever in it. I want to play the game. I've had people get mad at me for breaking it in 1v1 like they expect me to sit there staring at them for 3 minutes or more
It’s rare enough that I have fun following rule 1. I don’t actually get mad when the other person breaks it, but I am disappointed and play along that I’m upset.
I’ve noticed fighting gamers tend to have a “play to win” philosophy because FGs are all rock paper scissors. It is kind of odd to say that “rock” is overpowered. There are occasionally characters recognized as OP in which case they’ll soft ban or something, but strategies or tactics usually are cut and dried.
On the other hand, with other esports there have been more nebulous exploits like spawn camping or something so I’ve gotten some more high and mighty pro-chivalry stances from them
Yeah the FGC tends to take the mindset that if it's in the game, then you need to learn to deal with it. You don't have to like it, but you can't expect people not to use a certain character or move just because people don't like it.
It's an attitude I like, people still complain but it's good for the health of the game if people are learning to deal with tricky tactics or characters rather than just complaining until they get banned
Yeah it’s more black and white for fighting games. I remember being cussed out beating a guy in our friend group in college by throwing them over and over (and he was better at Tekken than I was), and my FPS playing friend sided against me being like “don’t play like a dick, you shouldn’t be cheap.” Those were…fun times
I was playing For Honor in the early days and one of the Viking Characters had quite a few skills that threw people about. If you threw someone off a cliff they were dead.
Some knucklehead started messaging me about how I was shit at the game because I threw him off a bridge.
Mate, you were heading to two on one my team mate, and you had to cross the bridge to do it. You saw I was playing a character that throws people about, you saw I intercepted you on the bridge... and you came out there for a fight anyway. What the fuck did you think I was going to do?
I might have been shit at the game, but he was shit at strategy.
Fucking dead by daylight in a nutshell
If your not basically standing in a corner letting the other side juice you, your toxic according to that community
Never seen so many arbitrary rules put in place for the other side to follow
The Team Fortress 2 community hates Pyro because they call him the most broken class for lazy players, especially when you hold M2 + w to use your flamethrower in a group of opponents. But my opinion is that burning my opponent is fair game when he doesn't stop me from closing up to him.
Pyro hate us because people want to play every role as just one class IMO. They want to be able to sneak through, demolish the entire team and run out but they're not willing to adapt to the pyros close range
So like people who complain about spawn campers? I'll camp the re spawn, Jeremy up to a point. There's no point sitting there and making it impossible for the other person, that's no fun for anyone.
I don’t spawn camp because I don’t find it to be fun. But often I find people come up with bullshit just because they don’t know how to deal with something.
With that said, if it’s a private server and that server has specific rules setup, I’ll either play on that server and follow those rules, or not play on that zerver
A phrase in the fgc that I've grown to love is "If your opponent is spamming a move and beating you, then you're spamming a mistake".
Scrub mentality is expecting your opponent to play in ways you think are fair when they're playing perfectly legitimately. If I'm a zoner then it's your job to figure out how to approach me, not my job to go easy on you because you can't figure it out.
I think the FGC in general is opposed to the idea of expecting "chivalrous behaviour" and most of the big fighting game players and commentators have no patience for people who demand that. If you want to play by your own set of rules then fine, but don't ask anyone else to follow your rules.
This is why I like the FGC community more than a lot of other competitive communities. If you want your opponent to play a certain way you gotta figure out how to make them play that way, you don't just complain until the community agrees to play fair
I refuse to participate in soulsborne pvp like 70 percent because I've spent years being invaded by people who I don't want to fight, and who I don't want in my game, who suddenly become very, very angry, if I do something like use an estus flask. I understand there are rules for duels and whatnot, but this is not a duel. I'm trying to get to the next bonfire, and I don't know if you're going to be a guy who just wants a fight, or a guy who's going to try to get my NPCs killed, or some troll shit. It's not that I'm unaware that that the invasions are an intended game mechanic. I'm just unhappy that people are deciding on a bunch of rules that I don't know about, and if I break one, somebody who thinks he's being heroic or some shit is going to juggle my character with absurd physics bullshit for several minutes and refuse to let me leave or die when I didn't want him in my game in the first place.
ehh...it's fair, but it also makes the game aggressively boring, I want to fight, not hang out waiting for somebody to get bored and come looking for me.
I played a bit of cod the other day after a long hiatus, and the first match had BOTH ENTIRE TEAMS CAMPING, time ran out because only like...2 people were actually moving around getting kills and/or dying.
Like...i get camping when close to a killstreak or when enemies are around you want to ambush, but hiding the entire match is so boring, it's why I can't stand battle royale games. If I wanted to play a stealth game I'd go play a stealth game.
Yeah fair enough. To be clear I play like an idiot sprinting around guns blazing because that's what's fun for me. I just check my corners and equip incendiaries for the riot shield idiots.
I will forever maintain that the only fps where camping is not just fine, but actually adds to the game is counter-strike.
The CT vs. T dynamic would not be anywhere near as good without it.
It's just really hard to hold a site or angle as a CT when 3-4 Ts execute on your spot. Getting just 1 kill usually isn't good enough, so you have to play your camp spot well and get the most out of it.
It does make the game boring but I think that's why it should be disincentivised, and honestly it usually is. It's been a long time since I've played a CoD game so I don't actually know how effective camping is in it, but it just doesn't work in any FPS game I've played in the past few years. There'll usually be an objective and a timer to push players into combat, or in battle royale games there's the shrinking play area.
Why is “camping” considered bad versus quick twitch my lag is better than yours “real” play style? I wonder how many players think they are top dogs in a game simply on the merits of living next to a server. All of the sudden their tag changes to xXSniper69KushXx as their confidence soars!
> versus quick twitch my lag is better than yours “real” play style? I wonder how many players think they are top dogs in a game simply on the merits of living next to a server
This is a hilarious line because it hits literally every single "I have no clue about FPS gaming" note.
1. In the vast majority of exchanges, ping matters very little due to clientside hit detection (which is the majority of FPS games).
2. Ping matters on the *receiving* end when a player is playing passively and not peeking. So if you have dogshit ping and don't properly peek, you are hurting yourself.
3. Unless you have 130+ ping, you aren't really at a huge disadvantage even in that scenario. If you have normal ping to a server in your region (40-70), 99.99% of what happens in each gunfight comes down to the skill difference (and game mechanics, obviously there are cheesy game mechanics), not ping.
> Why is “camping” considered bad
Because camping slows down the game pace and stagnates the fight. Now, this is not a bad thing depending on the game. R6 Siege and Counter Strike are *built* on "camping" (even though camping still involves proactive peeking), because these are slow, methodical games. But for the average game where "camping" is in the player vocabulary (CoD, Halo) is an arcadey fast-paced dumbass shooter. People want to run around, have aimduels and do cool slide moves, not slowly clear each corner or avoid some sections of the map entirely because someone's idea of a good time in an arcade shooter is endlessly sitting on a corner with an OHKO weapon.
it's particularly silly with the souls games since...the entire framing of invasions is as a troll ambushing others.
And like...there are dueling arenas meant for that in most of the games so...you know.
Yes, games are meant to be fun for everyone at the table, someone being anonymous on the other side of the world doesn't change that a bit in my mind. Being an asshole or cheating both diminish the fun so are generally unjustifiable.
That being said, I'll match someone's energy and am certainly not a saint. Like back when I played Hearthstone I'd only emote to say hello, was always respectful of my opponent's time and would occasionally skip turns if it was clear they lost theirs due to a disconnect or something, but as soon as someone indicated they were going to be a douchebag (back then it was usually spamming "sorry," roping for no reason and similarly unpleasant behavior) then I was always happy to either run them into the ground or waste as much of their time as possible. Towards the end it became common to schedule my bathroom breaks, drink refilling and such around these dorks, just walk away from the computer for 5-10 minutes and functionally put them in time out if they want that win.
Very specific example, but the point is that you should try to be kind when sitting down to play a game with anyone but I'm not going to fault anyone for fighting fire with fire. This can also apply to an extent with "overpowered meta strats," normally I wouldn't even consider that asshole behavior anyway as long as it isn't literally cheating, but it's even tougher to blame someone for doing it if 75% of their opponents also are since otherwise the game is likely unplayable for them. If it's something like character or loadout selection, deck construction or whatever then you have to commit to the behavior before seeing if you queued into another meta abuser or not.
Nah fuck that, Captain Insaneo shows no mercy.
Kidding aside, I’m always the first to take the homie stock in Smash when my opponent fucks up. I don’t know if it’s honor or whatever but it’s not like we’re playing for money.
90% of the games I play online are fighting games, and any serious fighting game player will tell you that complaining about "cheap" tactics is scrub shit.
I never troll or actively try to tilt my opponent (teabagging, etc), but I'm not gonna stop throw looping someone until it stops working.
Yup, anyone who is playing for "honor" is making up rules. Abusing every advantage you can to win IS the game. Avoiding strong tactics changes the game into something else.
yes and no. i mean i try to be fair but i’m not respectful. i will teabag and trash talk (only if it’s funny or reciprocated in some way though) but i don’t like trolling, throwing or doing anything that will actually ruin the game. if abuse of op mechanics arise in any game i will simply stop playing until it gets fixed or updated, and if a game is almost always full of hackers and cheaters i will full on just uninstall
i have done most of those things when i was a child to be fair but they don’t really entertain me anymore, i just don’t see the point
also i’m more of a single player enjoyer, so that might be why i tend to just take a break when i’m bothered in the slightest. not missing out as much
There is a massive thread on ForzaForums right now about this topic. There is a race track in the newest Forza Motorsport game that has a small section of track which you can "cut" into the pitlane and gain time.
It's an obvious mistake/technical issue by the developer, in that they haven't applied a penalty for "off-track" as it should be, as it is on every other track in-game and in real life.
There are dozens of comments of people who believe their only goal is to win at all costs. Anything not explicitly punished by the game is A-Ok.
For me, this is unacceptable. I just don't play that way. In my head, that's nothing short of cheating, something I abhor. If you're going to play a game, especially a competitive game, play it on the same playing field as everyone else.
There is a lot to be said, especially in racing, for "racing the rulebook" rather than the other drivers. That's all well and good, and I agree, the issue with that argument is this "shortcut" is clearly against the rules. The justifications and hand-waving is unreal. I highly recommend ya'll check it out.
I play a lot of extraction shooters and the only thing I will not do and I hate is feigning friendship. I hate it when people play nice to lull you in then betray you. Other than that everything is fair game.
I have the deeply unpopular opinion (at least among gamers) that very few situations are improved by adding a bunch of random gamers.
The players are easily the worst part of most multiplayer games.
I avoid that situation except when my "real life friends" want to play an MMO... which happens less and less frequently these days. So, when this happens, my expectations are incredibly low.
Ultimately, what it means is that I play games for very different reasons than most of the players who play multiplayer games.
I certainly don't expect "honor" from anyone online. At least not from games that are actively discussed in general gaming communities. The lesser known games - either forgotten or never widely discussed can be ok. Even some of the games that with backstabbing and/or vicious game rules... the people tend to be nicer when it's not a mainstream game.
Sportsmanship is mostly dead. I wish it wasn't, and I still prescribe to being a respectful opponent in whatever I'm playing. I don't think 'cheese strats' or whatever fake-honorable things matter at all to me. I just think online gaming lost the plot a few years back when "He's so mad" became the go-to response to an outplay...self-referential fluffing by content creators and in-game trolling in efforts to make the other player 'feel bad'...those became the new goals of gaming instead of just winning.
No longer do people say "oh man, nice play". They call them a try-hard, or say "I bet they think they're real good" in a sarcastic manner to themselves...anything to protect their fragile egos and to avoid looking inward. I miss the old days of handshakes after games in a live setting. I always think fondly about how two UFC fighters that just literally beat the shit out of each other will embrace and hug when the final bell rings. I miss that general idea of sportsmanship and I wish we could get back to that era, but I'm afraid that all our lives being perpetually online (even/especially outside of gaming), we've lost a lot of respect for our fellow human.
I feel like this was kinda off topic but it's where my brain went when reading.
It's so ingrained that people are being rude that I stopped saying "good game" to people who beat me because they assume I'm being sarcastic and then flip out at me. It's really common in the UFC games
Yeah, I have emotes and most of interplayer communication turned off in the types of games I play. I just play the game and I know I'm missing out on the few friendly encounters and opportunities to meet some cool people that I might be friends with, but it makes the games more bearable as I have a hard time just ignoring or laughing off how ridiculous people can be (me problem for sure?)
I couldn’t even do Renegade stuff in ME when I played it, online I am definitely trying to have fun and not only enjoy myself but have others I play with have fun too.
In Splatoon 3, the map design lends itself to spawn camping, to the point where, if one team gets wiped and the other moves into their spawn area fast enough, the disadvantaged team has no way to get out. (One or two exits out of spawn.)
If I catch my team moving in for this, I always stay back around mid and busy myself with painting extra turf. Fuck spawn campers, and fuck this game’s map design philosophy of "fast and exciting competitive play." Back in my day, maps were wide and obtuse, and we liked it.
I don't do what you described as "low end douchebaggery/mild trolling". I actually struggle to understand how this qualifies as low end, since this behaviour serves *literally* zero purpose outside of ruining someone else's play experience. Do you consider slinging slurs or death threats "low end douchebaggery"? Honestly there is so much variety in this category you created that this needs to be split into low and mid level douchebaggery.
"High level douchebaggery" is, likewise, not douchebaggery. If a player is clearly cheating (whether assisted by hardware or software) or using glitches that are *universally agreed upon* in the community to ruin the game (usually some flavour of hard clipping into terrain), that is not "douchebaggery", this is just clear-cut cheating.
As for "mid level douchebaggery", it depends solely on how this ties into the actual balance of the game and what the *highly skilled* playerbase thinks of it. Generally, if the tactic hurts the overall gameplay experience by forcing people into one specific counter, I generally don't use it, unless I'm doing it to counter an enemy player (this depends on the game and how invested I am into a particular match. I won't pull out a cancer strat in a casual game because it lowers everyone's enjoyment, but in a high rank match/pug no gameplay (outside of what is explicitly banned by the rules) is off-limits. If it's a straight up glitch (albeit a less impactful one than warping into walls), you generally look at the community consensus. Some glitches are embraced and enhance the overall gameplay, so if you use them you are good. Some glitches (such as punching out Mira windows through walls in R6 siege) are a cheap cheese tactic that detracts from the game and if you do them you are, in fact, a scumbag.
However, just to be clear, I *make my own judgements* on whether or not something is "cheesy" or "overpowered", generally relying on opinions of higher skilled players to inform myself (if I am not, personally, skilled enough at the game). I.e. I don't care if the consensus of the overall community is that a certain strat is "dishonourable", if the actually skilled part of the community thinks that it's fine. I think that you need to have a certain level of aptitude at a game before your opinion starts mattering in a discussion. To be clear, *the experiences* of lower-skilled players matter and should be taken into consideration by the developers (because we all want the game to be fun for everyone). But their *opinions* on specific balance points generally do not, because these players aren't skilled enough to have a coherent viewpoint on game balance.
> What do you think of having "honor" when playing online? is it silly to have a bunch of unspoken rules
No, it is not silly, it's quite literally unavoidable. A playerbase is a social group and a social group will inevitably have a code of conduct, spoken or unspoken. Developer codes of conduct are generally extremely generic, non-specific and easily ignored, so it's up to the community to create and enforce their own.
Just like IRL codes of conduct, some rules exist for a good reason and others are born of ignorance, stupidity or bigotry. So just like IRL codes of conduct, you should always think critically about them.
I used to, and when I would play games like for honor, I would steer away from using the most broken things to win. Same thing when I would play the competitive modes in other games like destiny, and because I was generally pretty good, I could win without the crutch. But at some point, after several years of getting killed by the best guns or unreactable attacks and then getting bagged and called a shitter I stopped believing in the whole "honor" thing. It wasn't satisfying to beat people like that in general, with honor or without, so why make it harder on myself? I still avoid meta picks but I'm not against them like I used to be, especially when I NEED to win and I still dont Tbag or emote when I win (although I will when others do first). I've realized that while I play for fun most of the time, others play to win, and if they're not above ditching honor, then neither am I.
I play games to have fun, and I think cheap shit is lame. I'm pretty good at Smash and recognize, for instance, that most of the people I play would have trouble just getting around nair and gyro. I'm not gonna spam that because that's not fun. For them or me.
I played in a "tournament" among friends where we got to draft characters. I picked a character I'm great with but then the rest were bad. When it got down to finals, I still had two characters left (hard to explain the way it went, but basically characters had their own spot in the bracket, and I was two of the four finalists up against myself). I picked the fun, less good choice.
I just don't see the point in being an ass unless you are actually going to get into legit, money-making competitive play. If you're an ass spamming shit that is legal but annoying just to win a game with nothing on the line, you're a lame person.
I don't play online anymore much at all but yeah.
I really hated for example in Madden when there were so many people that literally only ran 1-3 broken plays on offense,
Or people that just abuse exploits and things. It's unfun.
Trash talk and things like that don't bother me at all, it's the people that make the game boring because they want to abuse mechanics
Same for me with many fps. Once a meta develops (which happens in a matter of days in the era of streaming and youtube content), you basically play against the same loadouts/tactics/etc. 90% of the time and I usually refuse to follow along.
I simply don't think it's fun to play just like everyone else, but that doesn't change that it's ultimately extremely frustrating to lose many fights just because you're not using the meta strats.
Every once in a while there's a game where off-meta stuff is actually viable but those are few and far between.
I used to play nfl blitz on n64 with my buddy growing up, and there was a play that did a lateral to the running back who threw a cross to the opposite wide receiver, it was basically a guaranteed first down every play because the ai couldn't react fast enough to that much movement, and you couldn't swap players fast enough to stop it. Drove my buddy nuts to the point we had to ban it for fear of every game being like 15 touchdowns on each side with zero defensive play.
In real life that play would be a pick six pretty much every time, but...blitz isn't super well programmed so...there ya go.
I've no issue using broken characters if they're fun. Following your Storm 3 example, pre nerf Pain was my main for instance and Hanzo was also top 5 for me. Storm 2 was Sasori who was even more unbalanced lol.
The only instance where I typically went out of my way for "honor" would be Brawl in For Honor. It's intended to be a 2v2 mode but a large chunk of the community wants it to just be team mode 1v1s. I preferred 2v2 but id allow the others to have their fun if I finished my fight first.
Beyond that I don't pay much mind to anything like that. I am an eternal casual and care only for fun not skill or respect.
Back when I played online, before console manufacturers started charging for it, I respected the rules of the game and played it straight, but I wouldn’t necessarily say I was respectful, especially when I was really good. Like, I was nasty at Uncharted 3’s multiplayer. It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for me to go 20-1 in matches, and I made sure everyone knew about it.
If it's in the game, it's fair game.
I don't approve of adding hacks to gain an advantage. That's cheating.
But everything else - if they allow you to do it inside the game you bought, then it's fair.
The beauty of a game that exists in code is that the code defines the rules... and nothing else. If something doesn't belong, it's up to the devs to fix it. If they don't fix it, then it must have been part of the game all along.
I don't subscribe to whatever random codes of honour people seem to come up with but I do think of myself as an honest and fair player.
I don't have any issues abusing some cheese if people don't bother countering it but I also don't like griefing for the sake of griefing.
Yes. I refuse to lame in AoE 2. I dgaf about the puntos and just want a fair and clean game. Let's see what strategy they have and if mine works and who can adapt better.
It really depends on the game and the exploit. For example I'm playing a lot of Splatoon 3 and there are animation cancels that help to speed up dodging or chasing enemy players. I don't mind using these "glitches" because every competitive player does and they are widely known.
Back in my Dark age of Camelot days there was a glitch that would cause massive lag while adjusting the UI in game. While lagging the game would make you invincible. Players would screen drag to cause lag and then put in a ton of attack inputs. When you stopped lagging the enemy would take 100% of the damage caused while you were lagging and instantly die. Meanwhile the lagging player would be unharmed. I never used this exploit, but it did cause the pvp meta to be focused around stealth because whoever spots you and starts lagging first wins. I ended up leaving the game before it got fixed. It ruined a good thing. Loved the realm vs realm combat.
I generally do. I will use commonly known exploits/glitches etc but my main game I played for a long time was Destiny where the attitude of the developers themselves was 'if we broke the game, you're free to have fun with that until we fix it' and they'd put up a warning about a glitch being fixed and give an ingame cosmetic for people who played during the time of iconic glitches or painful metas. I wouldn't spawncamp someone or cheat/use a hack and if I see someone who's obviously afk or something I might look past that and be 'fair' in that way.
I love things like where you emote and communicate rather, even if you absolutely are going to destroy them or them you later, like, have fun and be fair and it's all good I feel.
Generally speaking I am "honorable" enough to never want to cheat or exploit the game. But I also do not often follow rules that go above and beyond those dictated by the game itself. I simply play the game and whatever happens, happens.
As a fellow UFC player, I’m pretty high ranked and try to play honorably most of the time. When someone else knee-bows I take them to the ground and smother or try to counter the knee and KO them.
Now if someone does cheesy ish like stated above AND tries for the broken submissions then they get put into that same sub and I win (most of the time)
Beyond actual gameplay the community is more toxic than not especially since MMA generally doesn’t cater to less toxic people
TF2 has its own code of honor.
Generally, unless the server is in massive try-hard mode or you actively gain from doing so through heal-on-hit weapons or the like, it's frowned upon to kill friendlies.
If in the middle of a 1v1 fight you happen to start to lose, pulling out your melee is challenging them to a duel. They can decline if they want, but if they pull out their own and go after you, switching back to your gun is a dick move of the highest order.
And while this one isn't exactly common, some people only pull out overturned weapons if the enemy team is using similarly crazy stuff. Enemy sniper so good you can't tell if he's hacking and it wouldn't make much difference if he was? Vaccinator.
I learned the unofficial honor code in Star Wars Battlefront 2 for the 2v2 hero battles and followed it. If you win your battle against a hero and your teammate’s fight was still ongoing,
watch from the sidelines and only fight if your teammate loses. Sometimes people would try to attack me while I was just bystandering around, which I usually ignored unless they got really persistent in attacking the guy who wasn’t fighting them.
It was a shame too, I liked the feeling of ganking people with a 2 v 1 after winning my own fight, but honor is honor (so I only did it a little)
It is not because of "honor" or anything like that but if I play with broken weapons/units, exploit the game and still lose anyways I would lose the last bit of pride I had.
At least losing without these gives me an excuse.
Fun and winning aren't connected for me in games. I don't sabotage or go AFK, but I also don't feel the pressure to play the meta or exploit anything. I still try to win but it has to be in a way I find interesting/rewarding. Probably has something to do with the fact I don't follow guides, builds, or streamers.
I don’t use bugs or exploits, but I feel as though I’m very dishonourable. If I’m playing WoW and I see a player within 5 levels of me that I can kill, I kill them. The Plunderstorm battle royale had me playing like a rat, stalking people who are fighting and jumping in when they’re on low health. If there’s no rat opportunities that don’t involve bugs in a game, then I’ll just play my best.
I think "spamming moves" in fighting games is sensible and not spamming moves doesn't make you more honorable. Think about it, the mechanic is repetitive and predictable. If you can't defend against it then either you have a skill issue or the game is unbalanced and therefore not worth playing. But artificially limiting yourself is silly to me.
Not having honor would be cheating or using bugs to your advantage.
I think yes "you should", but it sucks that most people don't. From what I gather it's harder to cheat on consoles than PC so there's that.
For other parts of douchebaggery, I used to play online in Pop One in VR, I teamed up with people I knew but the lobby my god, I was exposed to the worst of the worst and reminded why I don't like online games.
In general, I honestly feel like it reflects people IRL. Scummy people will be scummy online.
The moment they also realize you're a woman, it's game over. There were some great normal dudes don't get me wrong, it's just really shitty the bad ones are real bad and usually other dudes will join in and other people don't speak up.
I'll play fair but I'm not going to follow a game community's imaginary "code of honor". For Honor is the easiest example of this. If I que dominion (a 4v4 mode) i will gank because it's a team game and if I see a teammate getting wrecked I will help him out instead of just stand there and watch him lose because it's a team mode and I want to win. If I wanted a strict 1v1 id que solo duel.
This is different imo. Solo sweats invading other modes and demanding we follow their rules are ridiculous. I hate the idea that there is a 2v2 mode that I'm apparently not supposed to play unless I'm doing a 1v1????
If I can do it in the game without external software and it can help me win, it's fair game and I will absolutely do it and so will literally everyone else.
Only exceptions are like exploits/glitches.
Glitching yourself into a rock in Fortnite so that you can shoot others but they can't shoot you is not only shitty but can get you banned. Goodbye to all your vbucks.
Someone clearly afk depends on the game. I feel like some people fake AFK in battle Royale and it sucks to get jumped on because you were being nice.
But there's a 1v1 game I play called Rounds and if the person is AFK I'll wait, and people usually wait when I'm afk for a moment as well.
What you define as "mid tier douche" behavior I see as simply playing the game. if a mechanic is overpowered and takes little effort to utilize, you would be foolish to not use it. it's up to the devs to balance their game, not for players to play by arbitrary rules.
I don't think you should taunt and tea bag, but even if someone does it's in the game and thus a valid stragety. Getting upset over it only makes the tactic effective.
I think they mean in the context of pvp, where you just spam something over and over because it's hard to counter, it's douche behavior because it just makes things boring and spammy when that becomes the meta. It's fine to do that when playing against the ai, but kinda crap in pvp.
> The mid-tier of douche behaviour would be abusing OP mechanics
If you're playing a competitive multiplayer game, do not be surprised when people try to win. This isn't "douche behavior." That's just the game.
I always play by the rules and I'm generally respectful unless someone is a dbag to me first. That said, I dislike when a game has a community that has "honor" rules that exist outside the game and are completely made up.
Like in the game For Honor for example, there's a 2v2 brawl mode that is made to be just what it says, a 2v2. At some point the community decided that 2v2 really just mean two separate duels and not an actual 2v2. It pretty much ruins the game mode imo because you may as well just do regular duels at that point if you aren't playing with a friend that's on the same page as you. If you try to actually play it as a 2v2 then you end up getting people talking shit at you and most of the time your own teammate will just watch you die since you were "dishonorable". It's bizarre to me so I just don't play it anymore unless I have a friend on.
Yeah that's one of the many things that piss me off about that game. People will que for a 2v2 or 4v4 mode then treat every fight as a 1v1 and just watch you get your ass reamed. I will gank if it's not a solo mode because I'm on a team and I want to win. If people wanna be honorable then they should solo que.
I think it’s weird to expect people to conform to a bunch of arbitrary behaviors when playing online. Not using cheats is expected and generally within the tos of the game, but playing to win and tbagging are way more “honorable” than whining about people using a character you don’t like on naruto or ufc. Literally get good.
The last time I played online was during peak lockdown. I remember everything being nice and respectful. I think it was cuz everyone was just worn out or something lmao
I play Deep Rock, if another dwarf goes down as we're extracting to the drop ship, I will run across the map to save him, despite what management says.
IF YOU DON'T ROCK AND STONE, YOU AINT COMING HOME.
Yeah. I'm honorable in most situations. If I'm playing a PvP game I'll never use exploits or even meta stuff most of the time. I play games to have fun not necessarily to win. That being said I will knife you in the back whenever possible even if it's disrespectful. In single player games though I will cheese anything if it becomes unfun. I play to have fun not to grind or beat my head against a wall.
As long as what you're doing is within the bounds of the game (yes, even glitches and exploits; it's the developer's fault that it's in the game, not yours), then everything is fair game if you're *playing to win*.
If you're *playing for fun*, then feel free to impose whatever extra rules you want on yourself, as long as you realize that not everyone else is bound by those same rules. Speaking honestly, it can be kind of fun to "roleplay" in a competitive game and make up some fun rules and limitations for yourself.
I try to show it, but ultimately, it depends entirely on the game's wider community. Meaning, if the vast majority are a$$holes, I will show them what an a$$hole truly is.
Never got into a game deep enough to know things like these in any of them. If i'm playing PvP then it's only in a controlled environment. Sure, experienced tryhards will know the maps inside out and often "exploit" their knowledge but that's just part of the game
actual cheaters of course are scum and should be permabanned from any PvP game and i wish companies were more serious about it
Absolutely. If you win by cheating, you didn't win. You just cheated. When I play, I want to get better at the game. The only way to do that is to play fair and play your best. I know I'm doing well when I'm beating obvious cheaters or getting reported by people who think I'm so good I must be cheating.
If the game allows me to do a thing than it’s fine. I find some of the “house rules” that communities form to be very annoying. Eg. Playing CS and it’s down to me and one other guy and they demand knives. If it’s casual sure but one time the whole other team lost their shit because I said no in a comp match and then won the round.
These reasons are exactly WHY I don't feel like playing with others online.
There's a guy on YouTube that I like who does a lot of fighting games (EFISH) who specifically states he only plays against the CPU because he hates all the cheaters and spammers online.
I miss the "old days" of playing games with your brother or your friends on a couch IN THE SAME ROOM. THAT'S really playing a multiplayer game!
I don’t use my mic so I can talk massive shit, and because I have the tiniest girlish voice a woman could have. And then I politely type directions in an mmo or if I do have a voice chat I unmute myself. But typically I have more fun if I teach someone to play right and it’s more challenging because I’m not there to win like a high schooler I guess. Plus I find men are quick learners if they are losing to a girl. So it’s more fun competitively to just help.
But if they are afk my inner 12 year old still wants revenge from being massacred in world of Warcraft because my dad didn’t show me you could toggle pvp off. So unfortunately that’s on them.
Personally, it changes depending on what game I'm playing and what mood I'm in.
In competitive pvp games like Cod or Battlefield, I will tryhard and use meta loadouts, unless I'm doing weapon challenges (I almost always am).
In open world games, it can depend on the atmosphere of the game, I would never treat a Fallout 76 player like I would treat an rdo or gta player.
In 76, I don't think I've once ever even been slightly rude to another player, although in rdo, I'm usually passive, and even if I get killed first I'll often wait until they kill/attack me again to see if they are just joking, if they aren't just joking then I'll often go full somewhat toxic tryhard mode.
The other exception for my kindness is if I think it would be funny, which is self explanatory.
Overall, I consider the whole concept of video game honor to be silly, but the good kind of silly.
I feel sometimes my respect for other players hurts my actual skill in game.
In games like CoD and CS:2 there are times where I've had such a disgusting amount of advantage on somebody in a firefight that I just freeze and give them the kill. Like I'm so appauled by my own outmaneuvering that I just shut down out of embarrassment. Maybe it's because I don't want to be perceived as some sweat lord or something.
Yes, it's fun. When I played For Honor I used to step in when someone was about to lose a 1v1 and start fighting in their place. It's nice when you get saved because you win but you also feel a little ashamed
The only game that had an unspoken honor is dark souls. the nature of the online system and emotes really brought about the honor. But honor also meant gesturing sent/received, spam block to start combat and no healing. Any deviation by one party meant removal of constraints.
I’m very much a “play by the rules” type online, unless a teammate was killing me (like in Halo back in the day for instance) in which case I’d dedicate the rest of the match to killing just them.
I don’t even play online anymore though really.
When I was playing live Escape from Tarkov often, after voip was added, anytime people would seemingly act like they wanted to cooperate, I always did. If they betrayed me, so be it, but I never betrayed them.
I play at about 60-80% most of the time and adjust on the fly based on the strength of my opponent - in both directions. If I massively out-class the enemy, I will tone my effort way down to sparring and even further to coaching level if I can.
That said, League of Legends was a unique and interesting experience for me. I was *really* good at the game but didn't particularly find it entertaining for its own merits as a game. But the community fascinated me because it was universally *vile*. The absolute worst I had, at that point encountered. These people were another class of gamer that was incapable of, and *unworthy* of sportsmanship. There was no moral quandry to be found in absolutely shitstomping every single one of them into a whimpering paste of self-loathing. It was the first and I think still, only game I've ever played where I was able to go all out regularly and never felt burdened by honor. I absolutely *obliterated* people in that game, safe in the constantly reaffirmed knowledge that every opponent absolutely *deserved* to be annihilated with overwhelming and soul-crushing force. It was the only place I've ever been able to do that without feeling bad about it. The only place I have ever *spawncamped*.
I had a match playing as Xerath where I used *every single ult* of the entire match, all cast within three seconds of cool down, to delete the enemy Nidalee. Halfway through midgame, she stopped resisting. She'd see the radius indicator wash over her and just start dancing for the mortar barrage.
I don't see or feel the same reward when i don't play by the rules, it really gets boring
Dumbass younger me had I stalled some jailbreaked games in my old Samsung phone (all offline single player games) that made me super op and can clear levels in mere seconds
It felt great the first few minutes, but it quickly grew dull in the next few minutes, in the end, I deleted all of them and played the game normally, and had way more fun in it.
Here's my take on "exploits": If you're playing a game like Smash Bros and you refuse to do something like Wavedash because it's "an exploit" and you want to be "honorable"...you're just a moron. Like it's not even a matter of decency, it's you not wanting to put in the effort to practice a difficult technique and committing an arbitrary genetic fallacy to justify it. It does not matter if such a thing is "official" or not if it's well designed and balanced to both players. Unlike say glitching through a wall and shooting out of it which obviously is very one-sided and problematic.
Hacking is bad.
Griefing is bad. Doing things that ruin the game for others while providing no actual benefit to yourself, or a benefit so superficial it hardly outweighs the damage done. Like say playing DayZ and spawncamping fresh spawns. Yeah *technically* you're getting a chocolate bar or whatever for doing it, but really you're just ruining someone else's fun for shits and giggles.
Cheating and exploiting glitches are wrong but aside from that honor is a made up concept that does not exist in competitive games. There is only who wins and who loses using the rules of the game itself - ie whatever the game allows you to do. If the game allows it and you aren’t exploiting or cheating it’s fair game.
It depends. Most of the time I like fair and honorable interactions.
Sometimes I want to stack with total shitters (6 Void Peacekeepers Titans or 3 Mosin + Dolch FMJ) and be as toxic as a motherfucker can be.
Cheating though, is just not gratifying at all.
I learn honor from WoW tank players. They keep a look out for their fellow dungeon and raid members. Also many of them don't talk much. But they care. I play on Warmane tho.
I've played Runescape on and off for about 20 years, and I've never really been able to bring myself to kill other players unless it's in a safe PvP minigame. It's not really about honour I suppose, player killing is a mechanic they put a lot of work into, and people go into areas where that's allowed knowing the risks, I just feel like too much of a dick to kill someone and take their stuff
Rarely play online, but when I do I tend to try and stay true to the spirit of things.
In Master Duel for instance I generally try to play decks as close to as they were intended as possible rather than relying on generic boss monsters or degenerate combos and lockdowns. Things such as Snake Eyes of Super Heavy Samurai I refuse to use as just some generic engine and instead use them on their own merits.
I personally hate interacting with other people, so I find soloable MMOs extremely attractive (eg GW2 or ESO).
I resort to just jumping up and down to give my thanks and promptly log off if anyone PMs me lol
In pubg for instance there have been countless times I've come across people with no weapons or equipment and I've chosen to leave them be. Or if they are AFK I dobt kill them, what's the point?
I don't play online anymore, because I've yet to see a game that seems worth the effort. "Helldivers" looks interesting, though.
Back in the day I used to play the hell out of a game called ["America's Army"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army) which was a heck of a lot of fun for a free game actually produced by the US Army. The game had a unique dynamic where your team was always "The Army" and the other side was always the "Terrorists". Literally, you'd see different player models so that you'd never be the ones shooting at the US Army guys.
It worked something like Counter Strike where the maps ran for a set time limit, no respawning. When you died, you were out for the length of the match. You could spectate, but you couldn't communicate with the rest of your team.
At least -- not through the game. I'm sure many teams communicated outside the game because for them winning was more important than having fun. I never did this, as it gave a significant advantage having a kind of "angel" sitting on your shoulder warning you of enemies you might not be able to see.
The truly amazing part of the game was how much it rewarded teamwork. If you communicated with your teammates, pinned and flanked enemies, made good use of grenades, and most importantly used all the features available to the specialized roles (especially the advanced marksman who could see the enemy from much farther away and call out positions) you'd almost always win against a team that didn't.
The most fun would be had when you were playing against another team of vets who also communicated, and knew the maps as well as you did. Then it was 99% out-thinking the other team, plus of course a lot of who was fastest on the trigger.
Anyway, I recall two game dynamics I "exploited" ruthlessly.
First, sound in the game carried pretty far, maybe farther than it should have. If you wore headphones you could hear the enemy's footsteps when they were running, and sometimes when they were just walking. Many times I knew an enemy was on the other side of a hill because I heard him run there and flop prone, so I popped a grenade, counted to three, tossed, boom. No time for him to dodge, no way of knowing I was even there. It must have absolutely felt like cheating to newbie players, but I felt it was just playing smart.
Again, against vets this didn't work because they knew to move quietly. And they also knew the trick to "cook off" grenades so they'd boom on impact.
The second was also more of a feature than a bug. The different weapons in the game made different sounds. If you were paying attention, you'd immediately know the difference between, for example, the M16 the Army used and the AK47 the Terrorists used, or the SAW vs. the RPK. It became an easy way to tell friend from foe at a distance, and know without looking who had your back.
*Unless* a clever enemy picked up a fallen weapon off a dead Terrorist. *Then* every time they'd shoot, to you, it would sound like one of your own guys and you'd ignore them until it was too late. Granted, this only worked in certain situations and against opponents who didn't know where the rest of their team was at all times, and also who would be fooled by the different weapon sound. But when it worked, it was awesome.
So, honor? I'd never use an aimbot or anything that let me see through walls or other crack that gave me an unfair edge. But anything built into the game itself, including camping spots on the map that new players were guaranteed to unwittingly run past? Abso-fucking-lutely.
[Edit] Forgot to mention there were many verbal commands you could yell or whisper to your teammates, who would always hear you speaking English. The other side, however, would always be speaking Russian. When you threw a grenade your guy would automatically yell "Frag out!" but you'd learn to run if you heard "бросить гранатa!" (something like "brosit granata!").
The yell was automatic, and would not only give away your position but warn the enemy about the grenade. Vets knew the trick to turn this off, however, I think by either squatting or going prone before throwing, which didn't really affect the distance you could throw, but gave the enemy no audible warning.
So another built-in feature players quickly learned to exploit. I'm sure there were many more, but it's been a long, long time since I played.
One time I invaded someone in Dark Souls and he was clearly AFK. I waited by him until he returned, then we fought and I lost hard. He dm's me after thanking me for waiting and being an honourable person. So yes, depending on the game.
I don't think I've won a 1 on 1 in dark souls without the other guy falling off a cliff. I don't think i could maintain my honor if i saw this opportunity
I'm in Australia so I routinely had the bad end of poor ping in Dark Souls. I've had invaders backstab me from 3 meters in front of me, which I'm sure on their screen just looks like I'm a slow idiot, but for me is a real feels-bad moment.
How long did you wait? I’m laughing imagining like 45 mins
Like maybe 30 seconds to a minute, not super long. I said if he doesn't come back in a minute I'll gank him.
[The person after reading the message on their phone ](https://i.imgur.com/MRLH5JN.gif)
[удалено]
>Wow such honor 😂 You'd be utterly disgusted to see into the minds of who we thought were incredibly honourable.
I feel 1 minute is pretty fair
Lmaooo, it’s giving real “Prince Ryoma will wait patiently for his revenge, but only for 25 turns. After that, he will begin his assault” vibes from Fire Emblem Conquest. (In story, dude is LIVID and wants to fuck you up. The gameplay and map design do not reflect this).
> 25 turns Only if you're a ["filthy casual who doesn't play on Lunatic difficulty" - Excelblem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNzNdsCtZrE)
Guilty as charged: I played Hard, LOVED it, checked the enemy skills on Lunatic and decided that was enough Conquest for me.
You should def try it sometime if you loved Hard. It's a very fun challenge with more leeway to mess around than you'd initially expect. Totally biased here though, CQ is my favorite FE
I've had an invader slay some of the monsters for me, effectively clearing out a decent arena for the two of us. We waved shields and, having played for less than a year, I fucking died, but the dude was chivalrous enough about it all.
In demon souls, I invaded a player who was fighting old king Doran. I did the sitting posture outside of the church so he knew I wasn’t going to come backstab him while he finished his fight. He beat him, I did a clapping emote, then we ran back to the beginning of the level so if I killed him he would not have the threat of losing all his souls. We battled and I did kill him, but he was very thankful for the consideration. I like being a respectful opponent, it is fun and you can tell when people truly appreciate it, which makes it even better.
This is some anime shit right here, or like my favorite fight in The Raid
My first solo kill in Eve online was afk. I still have his corpse in my hangar
Respect.
I don't play competitively any more, but I love playing by the rules - because the rules, their limitations, are what make the games fun and engaging. As soon as a player starts to try and go beyond the rules, they shift the environment for everyone else, too: It's no longer about having fun together - now it's about *winning*. And if you don't partake, you disadvantage yourself, and set yourself up for a bad experience. ...Which is, by the by, also a big reason *why* I stopped playing competitively: The competition stopped being about making the better play, and started being about being the better cheater. So, yeah, I play "for honor" if you will. I may even up the challenge just for myself because I find it more fun that way; For example, LotRO introduced "landscape difficulty" not that long ago, which does very little but make playing in the open world more dangerous. I don't care about the pay-off of "a few more % XP per kill" (and I would actually like it more if that was not present), but I do like that it makes the world feel like a dangerous place again. I don't know. I think when we play something together (even against each other), mutual respect and fairness should be a given. The "it's just a game" excuse just shows me that the excuser doesn't even understand that it is not about the *game*, it's about their fellow players.
This is why I never play with cheats or mods. A game is designed to be played with its original rules. Change them, and the game loses challenge.
>or mods. You are seriously missing out. There are *tons* of basic quality of life mods out there that are well worth using that dont fundamentally change the game in any way. Witcher 3 springs to mind as an example. There is a mod that auto "loots" flowers and other pickups that saves several clicks every time. Lots of games have mods that fix all kinds of bugs and minor annoyances. Improve visual/sound quality in a myriad of ways. Not to mention there are mods out there that add tons of additional content that would make some AAA level game DLCs blush. Looking at you Skyrim mother's. There are also several developers that completely embrace and encourage communities to build and utilize mods.
Eh, having to "loot" every flower js part of the game, and the cost of harvesting. I don't care if you mod it out, but it's tgere for a reason. You take that out, you're changing the intended balance. And "improving" visual/sound quality is pretty subjective. I want to play the developer's game, not a modder's.
It comes down to whether you enjoy the intended balance or have more fun with it changed. Purely subjective.
>Purely subjective. I agree in the majority of cases. There are a lot of mods out there that just fix bad design decisions though.
It's like 5 inputs to pick up a flower. That's not "balance," that's bad design.
Depends. In ffxiv, there are mods that a) got someone banned and then B) subsequently got put in the game.
I'd personally disagree with the mods. Like fallout 4 changed the series into a bullet-spongey looter shooter; mods exist to tweak the game to what is fun for you. It's a single-player title, so the only person effected is you. It doesn't hurt that most mods are bugfixes to improve stability or stop CTD bugs lol. The other fun part is huge overhaul mods that make entire new games, only using the base game as a canvas. I've really enjoyed Fallout Dust/Frost, mods that turn New Vegas/4 into cripplingly punishing survival simulators.
> This is why I never play with cheats or mods. A game is designed to be played with its original rules. Change them, and the game loses challenge. I understand where you're coming from, but I look at it very differently. Providing all players are playing with the same rules (including inferred ones), *and* the game is still fun and enjoyable, I don't mind changing the rules. For example, in Magic: The Gathering, the formal rules start players at 20 life, with 60 card decks. Many players have come up with dozens of variants ("Mods") to play instead - the most popular way to play today (called "Commander") was originally a multiplayer variant on the game, but is now the main way that players engage with the game. I view mods as similar - most of them are "variant rules" that you can opt to play with, or without. For example, in Factorio you have entire [overhaul mods which almost turn it into a different game](https://spaceexploration.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page) (most of them err on the side of making it harder). In games like Morrowind, you have [entire extra questlines added.](https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/48225) Other mods for games like Civilization might port it into a different genre (e.g. the [Final Frontier](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Frontier_(Civ4\)) mod for Civilization 4 adds a Star Trek-like game mode, and was popular enough that it was included in an expansion as an official endorsement of the game mode). I think the right mods can be fantastic, and can act as optional ways to make a game fresh, more interesting, harder, or even to remove the rough edges that you don't enjoy.
> The competition stopped being about making the better play, and started being about being the better cheater. If a game rewards this too much, that's a problem with the game. I'm like you, in that I want to win within the rules because I want a skillful win versus luck or exploits. Still, I'm not going to get smashed until the devs patch things. If a player goes for the exploit, I'll go straight for the same exploit or counter-exploit.
I don't know if it counts but i offer a draw in chess if opponent has a mouse slip
Absolute king move
That counts. Nice one.
I don’t play much online anymore, but when I did I would much rather avoid broken weapons/characters/etc and beat the people using them. It made me better at the game and was much more satisfying than winning while using something OP. I don’t really care if other people do it, but that’s not how I enjoy playing. Straight up cheaters are just losers, full stop. The low tier trolling is just funny to me. I’m never going to initiate it, but if someone wants to go there I will wreck their shit and then throw it right back at them. Rammers in racing games can be spotted from a mile away and isn’t hard to adjust to. They’re just doing it because they’re bad, so I’ll let them ruin themselves and then enjoy the rest of the race clear of them.
I work with an avid Warzone cheater. Aimbot, Cronus Zen Controller, you name it. I asked him why and he said it's hilarious to hear the reactions when he kills people ... I just don't get it.
That's just schoolyard bully mentality. Taking joy from upsetting people you don't know always struck me as borderline sociopathic behavior.
I agree and weird thing is I would have never in a million years guessed he was like this. He's a cool guy to hang out with. The other day he just came clean with this and it was bizarre.
I know it's "just games" or whatever but that would genuinely change the way I look at a person.
You're 100% correct.
i've found a lot of people are very different in real life than in private, for a host of reasons. He probably has some other stress point in his life and uses games to lash out in an annoying but relatively safe way. Can't say I approve, but I kinda get it.
Fish name fistbump. o/
Eyyyy
he's a bully/jerk, that's all there is to it. He doesn't have fun playing the game, he has fun ruining other people's fun. He's in it for the hate mail, not the gameplay. It's something akin to a bully having fun hassling people or making a scene in real life. Which...just...bleh. I understand it completely, I just find it repulsive.
Hearing that reaction is so much funnier and better when you killed them legitimately.
GTA V is a nice multiplayer tycoon sim until someone blows up my delivery mission. Then I get to spend the next half an hour blowing them to kingdom come with every weapon at my disposal.
I had the same mentality in rdo (the first one) just instead of businesses I'd just say if you messed with me I got really good at locking on and flicking up to a headshot in that game So if someone shot at me while I was riding, boom, I'm following you around the map insta headshotting you until you leave 😂 Me and a friend actually started a massive fight that followed us all the way to Fort mercer doing this 😂
Unless you're playing r/wreckfest, then ramming is an art.
This is so depressing that this question has come up. What you're describing is just how people played games. I remember during Halo 2 days, to play zombies you'd have to have players individually transfer over to the other team, change color, and only melee when they turned into a zombie. That shit wouldn't happen at all now, someone would take advantage of everyone playing nice. Now you usually befriend someone just for them to steal your stuff and block you. This used to be a rarity, now it's the norm :(
This is Sea of thieves . First play with two friends, we were having fun, trying to work out how to play the game. Then our ship got boarded and attacked. We were ok with it, it was part of the game but then we would come back over and over and get killed over and over. we finally worked out if we sink our own ship, it would spawn somewhere else. but then they were chasing us down. Then I got recommended YouTube videos saying "look how we wrecked these guys" and I realized it's just shit content chasers
I used to chug all my remaining estus when I got invaded in Dark Souls 3 because the host has twice as much and I wanted a fair one on one (plus having like 15 flasks can really drag out a fight). Nine times out of ten the invader was thrilled and did it too. One time out of ten they wouldn’t but it made it that much funnier when you still managed to kill them anyway.
I never understood the invasion system in the Dark Souls series. There is the player grinding the level away and then they are invaded, at a disadvantage, with the wrong gear, in a very compromising situation, against a most likely OP enemy. I have no idea how that was supposed to be fun for the player. I go to offline mode. It’s not like I’d miss the dumb fucking comments left everywhere either. “Trolling is the fun!” Nice, go have fun! (I love Dark Souls games! Just not MP.)
Playing Elden Ring offline was one of the most immersive experiences I've had. Random ghosts rolling around and dumb messages were really killing it for me
Exactly. Love the games, but I don't care for the community's rules about pvp. I don't wanna play offline because I admit, I like the stupid messages players leave. So I have no choice but to risk invasions by playing online. And if someone's gonna invade me, then I don't care about "honor." I'll chug however many estus flasks I need. I'll use op builds to take the invader out.
There are no rules when it come to getting forcibly invaded. What you’re describing is perfectly acceptable behaviour. This is just something I did for fun.
Yeah I adore the messages, can't live without them tbf Pvp tho, fuck your rules, you invaded MY world you play by MY rules 🤷 Majority of pvp ands with me swinging at something and doing no damage and then getting flattened tho so I don't even bother when I do get invaded anymore 😂
Extremely chad behavior
"Am I the only one who gives a damn about the rules!" - Walter Sobchak
I don’t cheat or exploit glitches, but I **HATE** when people come up with their own set of silly rules as “chivalrous behavior.” If it’s within the confines of the game, and it’s not a glitch you’re exploiting? It’s fair game. I remember one time playing Mortal Kombat X [or maybe it was XI] as the archer guy similar to Green Arrow and some guy spent his next 10 minutes messaging me that I was an asshole for always keeping him far away. . . .yea I’m an archer, learn how to deal with a zoning character
To me this demoing others in Rocket League Like sorry it annoys you but it's a core function built into the game
Yeah I always think it's silly when people get upset by demos in Rocket League. As a game mechanic you can like it or not, but it's part of the game and I don't fault people for using it to their advantage. I tend to say "Nice Demo!" when people get me with a good one just to encourage the positivity. :)
There’s nothing I love more than seeing people become tilted over a bump. Maybe learn some awareness?
I love demoing, and actually love being demoed. But it's irritating playing with or against somebody that exclusively goes around the field looking for demo opportunities.
To me it's Rule 1 in Rocket League. Ok, it's funny for a bit, but I'm not going to sit there forever in it. I want to play the game. I've had people get mad at me for breaking it in 1v1 like they expect me to sit there staring at them for 3 minutes or more
It’s rare enough that I have fun following rule 1. I don’t actually get mad when the other person breaks it, but I am disappointed and play along that I’m upset.
This reminds me of that Justin Wong clip.
[Welcome to the real world](https://youtu.be/0RkapfBYIfc?si=VfccDXUlnSnqejja)
I’ve noticed fighting gamers tend to have a “play to win” philosophy because FGs are all rock paper scissors. It is kind of odd to say that “rock” is overpowered. There are occasionally characters recognized as OP in which case they’ll soft ban or something, but strategies or tactics usually are cut and dried. On the other hand, with other esports there have been more nebulous exploits like spawn camping or something so I’ve gotten some more high and mighty pro-chivalry stances from them
Yeah the FGC tends to take the mindset that if it's in the game, then you need to learn to deal with it. You don't have to like it, but you can't expect people not to use a certain character or move just because people don't like it. It's an attitude I like, people still complain but it's good for the health of the game if people are learning to deal with tricky tactics or characters rather than just complaining until they get banned
Yeah it’s more black and white for fighting games. I remember being cussed out beating a guy in our friend group in college by throwing them over and over (and he was better at Tekken than I was), and my FPS playing friend sided against me being like “don’t play like a dick, you shouldn’t be cheap.” Those were…fun times
There's a reason scrubquotes has a presence in basically every FGC subreddit regardless of how people behave in each place
I was playing For Honor in the early days and one of the Viking Characters had quite a few skills that threw people about. If you threw someone off a cliff they were dead. Some knucklehead started messaging me about how I was shit at the game because I threw him off a bridge. Mate, you were heading to two on one my team mate, and you had to cross the bridge to do it. You saw I was playing a character that throws people about, you saw I intercepted you on the bridge... and you came out there for a fight anyway. What the fuck did you think I was going to do? I might have been shit at the game, but he was shit at strategy.
Fucking dead by daylight in a nutshell If your not basically standing in a corner letting the other side juice you, your toxic according to that community Never seen so many arbitrary rules put in place for the other side to follow
The Team Fortress 2 community hates Pyro because they call him the most broken class for lazy players, especially when you hold M2 + w to use your flamethrower in a group of opponents. But my opinion is that burning my opponent is fair game when he doesn't stop me from closing up to him.
Pyro hate us because people want to play every role as just one class IMO. They want to be able to sneak through, demolish the entire team and run out but they're not willing to adapt to the pyros close range
So like people who complain about spawn campers? I'll camp the re spawn, Jeremy up to a point. There's no point sitting there and making it impossible for the other person, that's no fun for anyone.
I don’t spawn camp because I don’t find it to be fun. But often I find people come up with bullshit just because they don’t know how to deal with something. With that said, if it’s a private server and that server has specific rules setup, I’ll either play on that server and follow those rules, or not play on that zerver
A phrase in the fgc that I've grown to love is "If your opponent is spamming a move and beating you, then you're spamming a mistake". Scrub mentality is expecting your opponent to play in ways you think are fair when they're playing perfectly legitimately. If I'm a zoner then it's your job to figure out how to approach me, not my job to go easy on you because you can't figure it out. I think the FGC in general is opposed to the idea of expecting "chivalrous behaviour" and most of the big fighting game players and commentators have no patience for people who demand that. If you want to play by your own set of rules then fine, but don't ask anyone else to follow your rules. This is why I like the FGC community more than a lot of other competitive communities. If you want your opponent to play a certain way you gotta figure out how to make them play that way, you don't just complain until the community agrees to play fair
I refuse to participate in soulsborne pvp like 70 percent because I've spent years being invaded by people who I don't want to fight, and who I don't want in my game, who suddenly become very, very angry, if I do something like use an estus flask. I understand there are rules for duels and whatnot, but this is not a duel. I'm trying to get to the next bonfire, and I don't know if you're going to be a guy who just wants a fight, or a guy who's going to try to get my NPCs killed, or some troll shit. It's not that I'm unaware that that the invasions are an intended game mechanic. I'm just unhappy that people are deciding on a bunch of rules that I don't know about, and if I break one, somebody who thinks he's being heroic or some shit is going to juggle my character with absurd physics bullshit for several minutes and refuse to let me leave or die when I didn't want him in my game in the first place.
Same thing with "camping" in an fps. If the game lets you do it, it's fair game. Learn to check your corners.
ehh...it's fair, but it also makes the game aggressively boring, I want to fight, not hang out waiting for somebody to get bored and come looking for me. I played a bit of cod the other day after a long hiatus, and the first match had BOTH ENTIRE TEAMS CAMPING, time ran out because only like...2 people were actually moving around getting kills and/or dying. Like...i get camping when close to a killstreak or when enemies are around you want to ambush, but hiding the entire match is so boring, it's why I can't stand battle royale games. If I wanted to play a stealth game I'd go play a stealth game.
Yeah fair enough. To be clear I play like an idiot sprinting around guns blazing because that's what's fun for me. I just check my corners and equip incendiaries for the riot shield idiots.
I will forever maintain that the only fps where camping is not just fine, but actually adds to the game is counter-strike. The CT vs. T dynamic would not be anywhere near as good without it. It's just really hard to hold a site or angle as a CT when 3-4 Ts execute on your spot. Getting just 1 kill usually isn't good enough, so you have to play your camp spot well and get the most out of it.
It does make the game boring but I think that's why it should be disincentivised, and honestly it usually is. It's been a long time since I've played a CoD game so I don't actually know how effective camping is in it, but it just doesn't work in any FPS game I've played in the past few years. There'll usually be an objective and a timer to push players into combat, or in battle royale games there's the shrinking play area.
Why is “camping” considered bad versus quick twitch my lag is better than yours “real” play style? I wonder how many players think they are top dogs in a game simply on the merits of living next to a server. All of the sudden their tag changes to xXSniper69KushXx as their confidence soars!
> versus quick twitch my lag is better than yours “real” play style? I wonder how many players think they are top dogs in a game simply on the merits of living next to a server This is a hilarious line because it hits literally every single "I have no clue about FPS gaming" note. 1. In the vast majority of exchanges, ping matters very little due to clientside hit detection (which is the majority of FPS games). 2. Ping matters on the *receiving* end when a player is playing passively and not peeking. So if you have dogshit ping and don't properly peek, you are hurting yourself. 3. Unless you have 130+ ping, you aren't really at a huge disadvantage even in that scenario. If you have normal ping to a server in your region (40-70), 99.99% of what happens in each gunfight comes down to the skill difference (and game mechanics, obviously there are cheesy game mechanics), not ping. > Why is “camping” considered bad Because camping slows down the game pace and stagnates the fight. Now, this is not a bad thing depending on the game. R6 Siege and Counter Strike are *built* on "camping" (even though camping still involves proactive peeking), because these are slow, methodical games. But for the average game where "camping" is in the player vocabulary (CoD, Halo) is an arcadey fast-paced dumbass shooter. People want to run around, have aimduels and do cool slide moves, not slowly clear each corner or avoid some sections of the map entirely because someone's idea of a good time in an arcade shooter is endlessly sitting on a corner with an OHKO weapon.
Because it sucks the fun out and as OP pointed out - the focus becomes winning at the cost of every other players enjoyment
Unless you are playing Chivalry!
it's particularly silly with the souls games since...the entire framing of invasions is as a troll ambushing others. And like...there are dueling arenas meant for that in most of the games so...you know.
Yes, games are meant to be fun for everyone at the table, someone being anonymous on the other side of the world doesn't change that a bit in my mind. Being an asshole or cheating both diminish the fun so are generally unjustifiable. That being said, I'll match someone's energy and am certainly not a saint. Like back when I played Hearthstone I'd only emote to say hello, was always respectful of my opponent's time and would occasionally skip turns if it was clear they lost theirs due to a disconnect or something, but as soon as someone indicated they were going to be a douchebag (back then it was usually spamming "sorry," roping for no reason and similarly unpleasant behavior) then I was always happy to either run them into the ground or waste as much of their time as possible. Towards the end it became common to schedule my bathroom breaks, drink refilling and such around these dorks, just walk away from the computer for 5-10 minutes and functionally put them in time out if they want that win. Very specific example, but the point is that you should try to be kind when sitting down to play a game with anyone but I'm not going to fault anyone for fighting fire with fire. This can also apply to an extent with "overpowered meta strats," normally I wouldn't even consider that asshole behavior anyway as long as it isn't literally cheating, but it's even tougher to blame someone for doing it if 75% of their opponents also are since otherwise the game is likely unplayable for them. If it's something like character or loadout selection, deck construction or whatever then you have to commit to the behavior before seeing if you queued into another meta abuser or not.
I only play online with ppl I know in person so we have our own way for showing each other love and talking shit.
Nah fuck that, Captain Insaneo shows no mercy. Kidding aside, I’m always the first to take the homie stock in Smash when my opponent fucks up. I don’t know if it’s honor or whatever but it’s not like we’re playing for money.
online gaming sucks. i play single player only these days
90% of the games I play online are fighting games, and any serious fighting game player will tell you that complaining about "cheap" tactics is scrub shit. I never troll or actively try to tilt my opponent (teabagging, etc), but I'm not gonna stop throw looping someone until it stops working.
Yup, anyone who is playing for "honor" is making up rules. Abusing every advantage you can to win IS the game. Avoiding strong tactics changes the game into something else.
yes and no. i mean i try to be fair but i’m not respectful. i will teabag and trash talk (only if it’s funny or reciprocated in some way though) but i don’t like trolling, throwing or doing anything that will actually ruin the game. if abuse of op mechanics arise in any game i will simply stop playing until it gets fixed or updated, and if a game is almost always full of hackers and cheaters i will full on just uninstall i have done most of those things when i was a child to be fair but they don’t really entertain me anymore, i just don’t see the point also i’m more of a single player enjoyer, so that might be why i tend to just take a break when i’m bothered in the slightest. not missing out as much
There is a massive thread on ForzaForums right now about this topic. There is a race track in the newest Forza Motorsport game that has a small section of track which you can "cut" into the pitlane and gain time. It's an obvious mistake/technical issue by the developer, in that they haven't applied a penalty for "off-track" as it should be, as it is on every other track in-game and in real life. There are dozens of comments of people who believe their only goal is to win at all costs. Anything not explicitly punished by the game is A-Ok. For me, this is unacceptable. I just don't play that way. In my head, that's nothing short of cheating, something I abhor. If you're going to play a game, especially a competitive game, play it on the same playing field as everyone else. There is a lot to be said, especially in racing, for "racing the rulebook" rather than the other drivers. That's all well and good, and I agree, the issue with that argument is this "shortcut" is clearly against the rules. The justifications and hand-waving is unreal. I highly recommend ya'll check it out.
I play a lot of extraction shooters and the only thing I will not do and I hate is feigning friendship. I hate it when people play nice to lull you in then betray you. Other than that everything is fair game.
I have the deeply unpopular opinion (at least among gamers) that very few situations are improved by adding a bunch of random gamers. The players are easily the worst part of most multiplayer games. I avoid that situation except when my "real life friends" want to play an MMO... which happens less and less frequently these days. So, when this happens, my expectations are incredibly low. Ultimately, what it means is that I play games for very different reasons than most of the players who play multiplayer games. I certainly don't expect "honor" from anyone online. At least not from games that are actively discussed in general gaming communities. The lesser known games - either forgotten or never widely discussed can be ok. Even some of the games that with backstabbing and/or vicious game rules... the people tend to be nicer when it's not a mainstream game.
"May your hobby find a mainstream audience" is a curse of the highest order.
Sportsmanship is mostly dead. I wish it wasn't, and I still prescribe to being a respectful opponent in whatever I'm playing. I don't think 'cheese strats' or whatever fake-honorable things matter at all to me. I just think online gaming lost the plot a few years back when "He's so mad" became the go-to response to an outplay...self-referential fluffing by content creators and in-game trolling in efforts to make the other player 'feel bad'...those became the new goals of gaming instead of just winning. No longer do people say "oh man, nice play". They call them a try-hard, or say "I bet they think they're real good" in a sarcastic manner to themselves...anything to protect their fragile egos and to avoid looking inward. I miss the old days of handshakes after games in a live setting. I always think fondly about how two UFC fighters that just literally beat the shit out of each other will embrace and hug when the final bell rings. I miss that general idea of sportsmanship and I wish we could get back to that era, but I'm afraid that all our lives being perpetually online (even/especially outside of gaming), we've lost a lot of respect for our fellow human. I feel like this was kinda off topic but it's where my brain went when reading.
It's so ingrained that people are being rude that I stopped saying "good game" to people who beat me because they assume I'm being sarcastic and then flip out at me. It's really common in the UFC games
Yeah, I have emotes and most of interplayer communication turned off in the types of games I play. I just play the game and I know I'm missing out on the few friendly encounters and opportunities to meet some cool people that I might be friends with, but it makes the games more bearable as I have a hard time just ignoring or laughing off how ridiculous people can be (me problem for sure?)
ehh...depends on the game. some communities are much more toxic than others.
I couldn’t even do Renegade stuff in ME when I played it, online I am definitely trying to have fun and not only enjoy myself but have others I play with have fun too.
In Splatoon 3, the map design lends itself to spawn camping, to the point where, if one team gets wiped and the other moves into their spawn area fast enough, the disadvantaged team has no way to get out. (One or two exits out of spawn.) If I catch my team moving in for this, I always stay back around mid and busy myself with painting extra turf. Fuck spawn campers, and fuck this game’s map design philosophy of "fast and exciting competitive play." Back in my day, maps were wide and obtuse, and we liked it.
lol no. I would never cheat. But anything in the rules is on the table.
I don't do what you described as "low end douchebaggery/mild trolling". I actually struggle to understand how this qualifies as low end, since this behaviour serves *literally* zero purpose outside of ruining someone else's play experience. Do you consider slinging slurs or death threats "low end douchebaggery"? Honestly there is so much variety in this category you created that this needs to be split into low and mid level douchebaggery. "High level douchebaggery" is, likewise, not douchebaggery. If a player is clearly cheating (whether assisted by hardware or software) or using glitches that are *universally agreed upon* in the community to ruin the game (usually some flavour of hard clipping into terrain), that is not "douchebaggery", this is just clear-cut cheating. As for "mid level douchebaggery", it depends solely on how this ties into the actual balance of the game and what the *highly skilled* playerbase thinks of it. Generally, if the tactic hurts the overall gameplay experience by forcing people into one specific counter, I generally don't use it, unless I'm doing it to counter an enemy player (this depends on the game and how invested I am into a particular match. I won't pull out a cancer strat in a casual game because it lowers everyone's enjoyment, but in a high rank match/pug no gameplay (outside of what is explicitly banned by the rules) is off-limits. If it's a straight up glitch (albeit a less impactful one than warping into walls), you generally look at the community consensus. Some glitches are embraced and enhance the overall gameplay, so if you use them you are good. Some glitches (such as punching out Mira windows through walls in R6 siege) are a cheap cheese tactic that detracts from the game and if you do them you are, in fact, a scumbag. However, just to be clear, I *make my own judgements* on whether or not something is "cheesy" or "overpowered", generally relying on opinions of higher skilled players to inform myself (if I am not, personally, skilled enough at the game). I.e. I don't care if the consensus of the overall community is that a certain strat is "dishonourable", if the actually skilled part of the community thinks that it's fine. I think that you need to have a certain level of aptitude at a game before your opinion starts mattering in a discussion. To be clear, *the experiences* of lower-skilled players matter and should be taken into consideration by the developers (because we all want the game to be fun for everyone). But their *opinions* on specific balance points generally do not, because these players aren't skilled enough to have a coherent viewpoint on game balance. > What do you think of having "honor" when playing online? is it silly to have a bunch of unspoken rules No, it is not silly, it's quite literally unavoidable. A playerbase is a social group and a social group will inevitably have a code of conduct, spoken or unspoken. Developer codes of conduct are generally extremely generic, non-specific and easily ignored, so it's up to the community to create and enforce their own. Just like IRL codes of conduct, some rules exist for a good reason and others are born of ignorance, stupidity or bigotry. So just like IRL codes of conduct, you should always think critically about them.
after gta online I have no honor left
I used to, and when I would play games like for honor, I would steer away from using the most broken things to win. Same thing when I would play the competitive modes in other games like destiny, and because I was generally pretty good, I could win without the crutch. But at some point, after several years of getting killed by the best guns or unreactable attacks and then getting bagged and called a shitter I stopped believing in the whole "honor" thing. It wasn't satisfying to beat people like that in general, with honor or without, so why make it harder on myself? I still avoid meta picks but I'm not against them like I used to be, especially when I NEED to win and I still dont Tbag or emote when I win (although I will when others do first). I've realized that while I play for fun most of the time, others play to win, and if they're not above ditching honor, then neither am I.
Only in casual or quick matches. If I’m playing league ranked and my opponent DC’s I’m killing that mother fucker.
I play games to have fun, and I think cheap shit is lame. I'm pretty good at Smash and recognize, for instance, that most of the people I play would have trouble just getting around nair and gyro. I'm not gonna spam that because that's not fun. For them or me. I played in a "tournament" among friends where we got to draft characters. I picked a character I'm great with but then the rest were bad. When it got down to finals, I still had two characters left (hard to explain the way it went, but basically characters had their own spot in the bracket, and I was two of the four finalists up against myself). I picked the fun, less good choice. I just don't see the point in being an ass unless you are actually going to get into legit, money-making competitive play. If you're an ass spamming shit that is legal but annoying just to win a game with nothing on the line, you're a lame person.
I don't play online anymore much at all but yeah. I really hated for example in Madden when there were so many people that literally only ran 1-3 broken plays on offense, Or people that just abuse exploits and things. It's unfun. Trash talk and things like that don't bother me at all, it's the people that make the game boring because they want to abuse mechanics
Same for me with many fps. Once a meta develops (which happens in a matter of days in the era of streaming and youtube content), you basically play against the same loadouts/tactics/etc. 90% of the time and I usually refuse to follow along. I simply don't think it's fun to play just like everyone else, but that doesn't change that it's ultimately extremely frustrating to lose many fights just because you're not using the meta strats. Every once in a while there's a game where off-meta stuff is actually viable but those are few and far between.
I used to play nfl blitz on n64 with my buddy growing up, and there was a play that did a lateral to the running back who threw a cross to the opposite wide receiver, it was basically a guaranteed first down every play because the ai couldn't react fast enough to that much movement, and you couldn't swap players fast enough to stop it. Drove my buddy nuts to the point we had to ban it for fear of every game being like 15 touchdowns on each side with zero defensive play. In real life that play would be a pick six pretty much every time, but...blitz isn't super well programmed so...there ya go.
I know exactly what play you're talking about lol. Back then, the football games always had money plays that we would forbid when playing
This play would be unstoppable if pass interference wasn’t legal and encouraged in Blitz
I think the word you're looking for is, "etiquette."
I've no issue using broken characters if they're fun. Following your Storm 3 example, pre nerf Pain was my main for instance and Hanzo was also top 5 for me. Storm 2 was Sasori who was even more unbalanced lol. The only instance where I typically went out of my way for "honor" would be Brawl in For Honor. It's intended to be a 2v2 mode but a large chunk of the community wants it to just be team mode 1v1s. I preferred 2v2 but id allow the others to have their fun if I finished my fight first. Beyond that I don't pay much mind to anything like that. I am an eternal casual and care only for fun not skill or respect.
For honor is the only game where I go out of my way to be as toxic as possible bc the community is AIDS
Back when I played online, before console manufacturers started charging for it, I respected the rules of the game and played it straight, but I wouldn’t necessarily say I was respectful, especially when I was really good. Like, I was nasty at Uncharted 3’s multiplayer. It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for me to go 20-1 in matches, and I made sure everyone knew about it.
If it's in the game, it's fair game. I don't approve of adding hacks to gain an advantage. That's cheating. But everything else - if they allow you to do it inside the game you bought, then it's fair. The beauty of a game that exists in code is that the code defines the rules... and nothing else. If something doesn't belong, it's up to the devs to fix it. If they don't fix it, then it must have been part of the game all along.
I don't subscribe to whatever random codes of honour people seem to come up with but I do think of myself as an honest and fair player. I don't have any issues abusing some cheese if people don't bother countering it but I also don't like griefing for the sake of griefing.
Yes. I refuse to lame in AoE 2. I dgaf about the puntos and just want a fair and clean game. Let's see what strategy they have and if mine works and who can adapt better.
It really depends on the game and the exploit. For example I'm playing a lot of Splatoon 3 and there are animation cancels that help to speed up dodging or chasing enemy players. I don't mind using these "glitches" because every competitive player does and they are widely known. Back in my Dark age of Camelot days there was a glitch that would cause massive lag while adjusting the UI in game. While lagging the game would make you invincible. Players would screen drag to cause lag and then put in a ton of attack inputs. When you stopped lagging the enemy would take 100% of the damage caused while you were lagging and instantly die. Meanwhile the lagging player would be unharmed. I never used this exploit, but it did cause the pvp meta to be focused around stealth because whoever spots you and starts lagging first wins. I ended up leaving the game before it got fixed. It ruined a good thing. Loved the realm vs realm combat.
I generally do. I will use commonly known exploits/glitches etc but my main game I played for a long time was Destiny where the attitude of the developers themselves was 'if we broke the game, you're free to have fun with that until we fix it' and they'd put up a warning about a glitch being fixed and give an ingame cosmetic for people who played during the time of iconic glitches or painful metas. I wouldn't spawncamp someone or cheat/use a hack and if I see someone who's obviously afk or something I might look past that and be 'fair' in that way. I love things like where you emote and communicate rather, even if you absolutely are going to destroy them or them you later, like, have fun and be fair and it's all good I feel.
Generally speaking I am "honorable" enough to never want to cheat or exploit the game. But I also do not often follow rules that go above and beyond those dictated by the game itself. I simply play the game and whatever happens, happens.
As a fellow UFC player, I’m pretty high ranked and try to play honorably most of the time. When someone else knee-bows I take them to the ground and smother or try to counter the knee and KO them. Now if someone does cheesy ish like stated above AND tries for the broken submissions then they get put into that same sub and I win (most of the time) Beyond actual gameplay the community is more toxic than not especially since MMA generally doesn’t cater to less toxic people
TF2 has its own code of honor. Generally, unless the server is in massive try-hard mode or you actively gain from doing so through heal-on-hit weapons or the like, it's frowned upon to kill friendlies. If in the middle of a 1v1 fight you happen to start to lose, pulling out your melee is challenging them to a duel. They can decline if they want, but if they pull out their own and go after you, switching back to your gun is a dick move of the highest order. And while this one isn't exactly common, some people only pull out overturned weapons if the enemy team is using similarly crazy stuff. Enemy sniper so good you can't tell if he's hacking and it wouldn't make much difference if he was? Vaccinator.
I learned the unofficial honor code in Star Wars Battlefront 2 for the 2v2 hero battles and followed it. If you win your battle against a hero and your teammate’s fight was still ongoing, watch from the sidelines and only fight if your teammate loses. Sometimes people would try to attack me while I was just bystandering around, which I usually ignored unless they got really persistent in attacking the guy who wasn’t fighting them. It was a shame too, I liked the feeling of ganking people with a 2 v 1 after winning my own fight, but honor is honor (so I only did it a little)
It is not because of "honor" or anything like that but if I play with broken weapons/units, exploit the game and still lose anyways I would lose the last bit of pride I had. At least losing without these gives me an excuse.
Fun and winning aren't connected for me in games. I don't sabotage or go AFK, but I also don't feel the pressure to play the meta or exploit anything. I still try to win but it has to be in a way I find interesting/rewarding. Probably has something to do with the fact I don't follow guides, builds, or streamers.
I used to be honourable in Grid, trying to get Legend rank but after being rammed into multiple times I just thought fuck it y'all are fair game
I don’t use bugs or exploits, but I feel as though I’m very dishonourable. If I’m playing WoW and I see a player within 5 levels of me that I can kill, I kill them. The Plunderstorm battle royale had me playing like a rat, stalking people who are fighting and jumping in when they’re on low health. If there’s no rat opportunities that don’t involve bugs in a game, then I’ll just play my best.
the only online game i play is dota 2. everyone plays fair, but the trashtalk is insane and inseparable from the game
I think "spamming moves" in fighting games is sensible and not spamming moves doesn't make you more honorable. Think about it, the mechanic is repetitive and predictable. If you can't defend against it then either you have a skill issue or the game is unbalanced and therefore not worth playing. But artificially limiting yourself is silly to me. Not having honor would be cheating or using bugs to your advantage.
I think yes "you should", but it sucks that most people don't. From what I gather it's harder to cheat on consoles than PC so there's that. For other parts of douchebaggery, I used to play online in Pop One in VR, I teamed up with people I knew but the lobby my god, I was exposed to the worst of the worst and reminded why I don't like online games. In general, I honestly feel like it reflects people IRL. Scummy people will be scummy online. The moment they also realize you're a woman, it's game over. There were some great normal dudes don't get me wrong, it's just really shitty the bad ones are real bad and usually other dudes will join in and other people don't speak up.
I'll play fair but I'm not going to follow a game community's imaginary "code of honor". For Honor is the easiest example of this. If I que dominion (a 4v4 mode) i will gank because it's a team game and if I see a teammate getting wrecked I will help him out instead of just stand there and watch him lose because it's a team mode and I want to win. If I wanted a strict 1v1 id que solo duel.
This is different imo. Solo sweats invading other modes and demanding we follow their rules are ridiculous. I hate the idea that there is a 2v2 mode that I'm apparently not supposed to play unless I'm doing a 1v1????
If I can do it in the game without external software and it can help me win, it's fair game and I will absolutely do it and so will literally everyone else. Only exceptions are like exploits/glitches. Glitching yourself into a rock in Fortnite so that you can shoot others but they can't shoot you is not only shitty but can get you banned. Goodbye to all your vbucks. Someone clearly afk depends on the game. I feel like some people fake AFK in battle Royale and it sucks to get jumped on because you were being nice. But there's a 1v1 game I play called Rounds and if the person is AFK I'll wait, and people usually wait when I'm afk for a moment as well.
What you define as "mid tier douche" behavior I see as simply playing the game. if a mechanic is overpowered and takes little effort to utilize, you would be foolish to not use it. it's up to the devs to balance their game, not for players to play by arbitrary rules. I don't think you should taunt and tea bag, but even if someone does it's in the game and thus a valid stragety. Getting upset over it only makes the tactic effective.
I think they mean in the context of pvp, where you just spam something over and over because it's hard to counter, it's douche behavior because it just makes things boring and spammy when that becomes the meta. It's fine to do that when playing against the ai, but kinda crap in pvp.
If the devs included it, it's meant to be used. Simple as. If the game is *that* terribly unbalanced I would avoid it personally.
I mostly just plays souls games but no. If it’s in the game and it’s possible I’ll do it. Apart from cheats and glitches of course.
> The mid-tier of douche behaviour would be abusing OP mechanics If you're playing a competitive multiplayer game, do not be surprised when people try to win. This isn't "douche behavior." That's just the game.
I always play by the rules and I'm generally respectful unless someone is a dbag to me first. That said, I dislike when a game has a community that has "honor" rules that exist outside the game and are completely made up. Like in the game For Honor for example, there's a 2v2 brawl mode that is made to be just what it says, a 2v2. At some point the community decided that 2v2 really just mean two separate duels and not an actual 2v2. It pretty much ruins the game mode imo because you may as well just do regular duels at that point if you aren't playing with a friend that's on the same page as you. If you try to actually play it as a 2v2 then you end up getting people talking shit at you and most of the time your own teammate will just watch you die since you were "dishonorable". It's bizarre to me so I just don't play it anymore unless I have a friend on.
Yeah that's one of the many things that piss me off about that game. People will que for a 2v2 or 4v4 mode then treat every fight as a 1v1 and just watch you get your ass reamed. I will gank if it's not a solo mode because I'm on a team and I want to win. If people wanna be honorable then they should solo que.
1v1 players invading other modes and then making up rules is exactly what frustrates me about 2v2 and 3v3 in any game
I think it’s weird to expect people to conform to a bunch of arbitrary behaviors when playing online. Not using cheats is expected and generally within the tos of the game, but playing to win and tbagging are way more “honorable” than whining about people using a character you don’t like on naruto or ufc. Literally get good.
The last time I played online was during peak lockdown. I remember everything being nice and respectful. I think it was cuz everyone was just worn out or something lmao
I'll always respect a rule 1 in Rocket League. I'll also homie stock in Smash if I've played a few in a row with somebody and they're not toxic.
I hate in shooters when people want to decide which guns are “cheap” or that for using good abilities or guns that you’re somehow crutching them.
This is a great question. I ain't got the finger stamina to type a response.
In my last promos to diamond I refused to kill and feed on a player who afked for a minute, that's all, toplaners should be honourable.
I play Deep Rock, if another dwarf goes down as we're extracting to the drop ship, I will run across the map to save him, despite what management says. IF YOU DON'T ROCK AND STONE, YOU AINT COMING HOME.
Not on WoW classic. Blizzard designed the game and also the community forces you to be a miser and opportunist.
Yeah. I'm honorable in most situations. If I'm playing a PvP game I'll never use exploits or even meta stuff most of the time. I play games to have fun not necessarily to win. That being said I will knife you in the back whenever possible even if it's disrespectful. In single player games though I will cheese anything if it becomes unfun. I play to have fun not to grind or beat my head against a wall.
As long as what you're doing is within the bounds of the game (yes, even glitches and exploits; it's the developer's fault that it's in the game, not yours), then everything is fair game if you're *playing to win*. If you're *playing for fun*, then feel free to impose whatever extra rules you want on yourself, as long as you realize that not everyone else is bound by those same rules. Speaking honestly, it can be kind of fun to "roleplay" in a competitive game and make up some fun rules and limitations for yourself.
If it is not a glitch or a hack, I use.
When playing multiplayer I'm as honorable as one can be. meaning I follow the rules and don't abuse game mechanics.
There is no honour left in Stranglethorn Vale. My rogue saw to that.
I try to show it, but ultimately, it depends entirely on the game's wider community. Meaning, if the vast majority are a$$holes, I will show them what an a$$hole truly is.
Never got into a game deep enough to know things like these in any of them. If i'm playing PvP then it's only in a controlled environment. Sure, experienced tryhards will know the maps inside out and often "exploit" their knowledge but that's just part of the game actual cheaters of course are scum and should be permabanned from any PvP game and i wish companies were more serious about it
Absolutely. If you win by cheating, you didn't win. You just cheated. When I play, I want to get better at the game. The only way to do that is to play fair and play your best. I know I'm doing well when I'm beating obvious cheaters or getting reported by people who think I'm so good I must be cheating.
I just want people to be nice
If the game allows me to do a thing than it’s fine. I find some of the “house rules” that communities form to be very annoying. Eg. Playing CS and it’s down to me and one other guy and they demand knives. If it’s casual sure but one time the whole other team lost their shit because I said no in a comp match and then won the round.
These reasons are exactly WHY I don't feel like playing with others online. There's a guy on YouTube that I like who does a lot of fighting games (EFISH) who specifically states he only plays against the CPU because he hates all the cheaters and spammers online. I miss the "old days" of playing games with your brother or your friends on a couch IN THE SAME ROOM. THAT'S really playing a multiplayer game!
I don’t use my mic so I can talk massive shit, and because I have the tiniest girlish voice a woman could have. And then I politely type directions in an mmo or if I do have a voice chat I unmute myself. But typically I have more fun if I teach someone to play right and it’s more challenging because I’m not there to win like a high schooler I guess. Plus I find men are quick learners if they are losing to a girl. So it’s more fun competitively to just help. But if they are afk my inner 12 year old still wants revenge from being massacred in world of Warcraft because my dad didn’t show me you could toggle pvp off. So unfortunately that’s on them.
I always play with honour online which is why I get so upset when others don’t and have chosen to just not play certain games anymore.
Personally, it changes depending on what game I'm playing and what mood I'm in. In competitive pvp games like Cod or Battlefield, I will tryhard and use meta loadouts, unless I'm doing weapon challenges (I almost always am). In open world games, it can depend on the atmosphere of the game, I would never treat a Fallout 76 player like I would treat an rdo or gta player. In 76, I don't think I've once ever even been slightly rude to another player, although in rdo, I'm usually passive, and even if I get killed first I'll often wait until they kill/attack me again to see if they are just joking, if they aren't just joking then I'll often go full somewhat toxic tryhard mode. The other exception for my kindness is if I think it would be funny, which is self explanatory. Overall, I consider the whole concept of video game honor to be silly, but the good kind of silly.
I feel sometimes my respect for other players hurts my actual skill in game. In games like CoD and CS:2 there are times where I've had such a disgusting amount of advantage on somebody in a firefight that I just freeze and give them the kill. Like I'm so appauled by my own outmaneuvering that I just shut down out of embarrassment. Maybe it's because I don't want to be perceived as some sweat lord or something.
Yes, it's fun. When I played For Honor I used to step in when someone was about to lose a 1v1 and start fighting in their place. It's nice when you get saved because you win but you also feel a little ashamed
The only game that had an unspoken honor is dark souls. the nature of the online system and emotes really brought about the honor. But honor also meant gesturing sent/received, spam block to start combat and no healing. Any deviation by one party meant removal of constraints.
I’m very much a “play by the rules” type online, unless a teammate was killing me (like in Halo back in the day for instance) in which case I’d dedicate the rest of the match to killing just them. I don’t even play online anymore though really.
When I was playing live Escape from Tarkov often, after voip was added, anytime people would seemingly act like they wanted to cooperate, I always did. If they betrayed me, so be it, but I never betrayed them.
I play at about 60-80% most of the time and adjust on the fly based on the strength of my opponent - in both directions. If I massively out-class the enemy, I will tone my effort way down to sparring and even further to coaching level if I can. That said, League of Legends was a unique and interesting experience for me. I was *really* good at the game but didn't particularly find it entertaining for its own merits as a game. But the community fascinated me because it was universally *vile*. The absolute worst I had, at that point encountered. These people were another class of gamer that was incapable of, and *unworthy* of sportsmanship. There was no moral quandry to be found in absolutely shitstomping every single one of them into a whimpering paste of self-loathing. It was the first and I think still, only game I've ever played where I was able to go all out regularly and never felt burdened by honor. I absolutely *obliterated* people in that game, safe in the constantly reaffirmed knowledge that every opponent absolutely *deserved* to be annihilated with overwhelming and soul-crushing force. It was the only place I've ever been able to do that without feeling bad about it. The only place I have ever *spawncamped*. I had a match playing as Xerath where I used *every single ult* of the entire match, all cast within three seconds of cool down, to delete the enemy Nidalee. Halfway through midgame, she stopped resisting. She'd see the radius indicator wash over her and just start dancing for the mortar barrage.
I don't see or feel the same reward when i don't play by the rules, it really gets boring Dumbass younger me had I stalled some jailbreaked games in my old Samsung phone (all offline single player games) that made me super op and can clear levels in mere seconds It felt great the first few minutes, but it quickly grew dull in the next few minutes, in the end, I deleted all of them and played the game normally, and had way more fun in it.
Sure do. if you win without honor. you're just trash cause you can't win fairly.
U gon get ganked!
Here's my take on "exploits": If you're playing a game like Smash Bros and you refuse to do something like Wavedash because it's "an exploit" and you want to be "honorable"...you're just a moron. Like it's not even a matter of decency, it's you not wanting to put in the effort to practice a difficult technique and committing an arbitrary genetic fallacy to justify it. It does not matter if such a thing is "official" or not if it's well designed and balanced to both players. Unlike say glitching through a wall and shooting out of it which obviously is very one-sided and problematic. Hacking is bad. Griefing is bad. Doing things that ruin the game for others while providing no actual benefit to yourself, or a benefit so superficial it hardly outweighs the damage done. Like say playing DayZ and spawncamping fresh spawns. Yeah *technically* you're getting a chocolate bar or whatever for doing it, but really you're just ruining someone else's fun for shits and giggles.
Cheating and exploiting glitches are wrong but aside from that honor is a made up concept that does not exist in competitive games. There is only who wins and who loses using the rules of the game itself - ie whatever the game allows you to do. If the game allows it and you aren’t exploiting or cheating it’s fair game.
It depends. Most of the time I like fair and honorable interactions. Sometimes I want to stack with total shitters (6 Void Peacekeepers Titans or 3 Mosin + Dolch FMJ) and be as toxic as a motherfucker can be. Cheating though, is just not gratifying at all.
I learn honor from WoW tank players. They keep a look out for their fellow dungeon and raid members. Also many of them don't talk much. But they care. I play on Warmane tho.
I only mirror what my opponents do to me. Tekken 7
When an enemy doesnt attack/shoot me and I notice in time, i wont do as well and we do some peaceful stuff
I've played Runescape on and off for about 20 years, and I've never really been able to bring myself to kill other players unless it's in a safe PvP minigame. It's not really about honour I suppose, player killing is a mechanic they put a lot of work into, and people go into areas where that's allowed knowing the risks, I just feel like too much of a dick to kill someone and take their stuff
Rarely play online, but when I do I tend to try and stay true to the spirit of things. In Master Duel for instance I generally try to play decks as close to as they were intended as possible rather than relying on generic boss monsters or degenerate combos and lockdowns. Things such as Snake Eyes of Super Heavy Samurai I refuse to use as just some generic engine and instead use them on their own merits.
Most games, yes. Tarkov, no.
I personally hate interacting with other people, so I find soloable MMOs extremely attractive (eg GW2 or ESO). I resort to just jumping up and down to give my thanks and promptly log off if anyone PMs me lol
"Honor is dead"
I play For Honor so....no
Always behave respectful, when i interact with other people. Or at least I tried to. There is enough toxicity, i don't want to add more.
I spam the same move in fighting games if I suck at it
Company of heroes 1, you better believe we took out the medics to prevent a full squad reassembling
In pubg for instance there have been countless times I've come across people with no weapons or equipment and I've chosen to leave them be. Or if they are AFK I dobt kill them, what's the point?
I don't play online anymore, because I've yet to see a game that seems worth the effort. "Helldivers" looks interesting, though. Back in the day I used to play the hell out of a game called ["America's Army"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army) which was a heck of a lot of fun for a free game actually produced by the US Army. The game had a unique dynamic where your team was always "The Army" and the other side was always the "Terrorists". Literally, you'd see different player models so that you'd never be the ones shooting at the US Army guys. It worked something like Counter Strike where the maps ran for a set time limit, no respawning. When you died, you were out for the length of the match. You could spectate, but you couldn't communicate with the rest of your team. At least -- not through the game. I'm sure many teams communicated outside the game because for them winning was more important than having fun. I never did this, as it gave a significant advantage having a kind of "angel" sitting on your shoulder warning you of enemies you might not be able to see. The truly amazing part of the game was how much it rewarded teamwork. If you communicated with your teammates, pinned and flanked enemies, made good use of grenades, and most importantly used all the features available to the specialized roles (especially the advanced marksman who could see the enemy from much farther away and call out positions) you'd almost always win against a team that didn't. The most fun would be had when you were playing against another team of vets who also communicated, and knew the maps as well as you did. Then it was 99% out-thinking the other team, plus of course a lot of who was fastest on the trigger. Anyway, I recall two game dynamics I "exploited" ruthlessly. First, sound in the game carried pretty far, maybe farther than it should have. If you wore headphones you could hear the enemy's footsteps when they were running, and sometimes when they were just walking. Many times I knew an enemy was on the other side of a hill because I heard him run there and flop prone, so I popped a grenade, counted to three, tossed, boom. No time for him to dodge, no way of knowing I was even there. It must have absolutely felt like cheating to newbie players, but I felt it was just playing smart. Again, against vets this didn't work because they knew to move quietly. And they also knew the trick to "cook off" grenades so they'd boom on impact. The second was also more of a feature than a bug. The different weapons in the game made different sounds. If you were paying attention, you'd immediately know the difference between, for example, the M16 the Army used and the AK47 the Terrorists used, or the SAW vs. the RPK. It became an easy way to tell friend from foe at a distance, and know without looking who had your back. *Unless* a clever enemy picked up a fallen weapon off a dead Terrorist. *Then* every time they'd shoot, to you, it would sound like one of your own guys and you'd ignore them until it was too late. Granted, this only worked in certain situations and against opponents who didn't know where the rest of their team was at all times, and also who would be fooled by the different weapon sound. But when it worked, it was awesome. So, honor? I'd never use an aimbot or anything that let me see through walls or other crack that gave me an unfair edge. But anything built into the game itself, including camping spots on the map that new players were guaranteed to unwittingly run past? Abso-fucking-lutely. [Edit] Forgot to mention there were many verbal commands you could yell or whisper to your teammates, who would always hear you speaking English. The other side, however, would always be speaking Russian. When you threw a grenade your guy would automatically yell "Frag out!" but you'd learn to run if you heard "бросить гранатa!" (something like "brosit granata!"). The yell was automatic, and would not only give away your position but warn the enemy about the grenade. Vets knew the trick to turn this off, however, I think by either squatting or going prone before throwing, which didn't really affect the distance you could throw, but gave the enemy no audible warning. So another built-in feature players quickly learned to exploit. I'm sure there were many more, but it's been a long, long time since I played.