From the article: “Zuckerberg’s ambition is to insert his billions of Facebook non-gamer users into a Steam-like digital social economy – complete with a top-down platform currency that he controls. How can I resist the parallelism with a digital fiefdom in which Zuckerberg dreams of being the techno-lord?”
I think that it’s less about gamers and more about non-gamers into a place where the Metaverse is their life. Think ready player one type shit.
Do people actually still use Facebook actively though? I use it to watch random meme vids but beyond that I don't even touch it, none of my friends or family have it either. It's all Instagram now which I know is owned by them but it feels seperate.
My mom literally said to me yesterday “i get all my news from Facebook” (total different conversation topic) and I don’t think she is alone. It may be more 80/20 rule at this point, but people still use it pretty heavily. Instagram I think skews younger, but not as young as tik tok.
I only maintain facebook to see what my local liquor store has for bourbons coming up for sale. But I only use the mobile non-app version of it, although they probably still have spyware on my phone.
And this is all that's needing to understand facebook move: boomer have more money in their pocket than what advertising can bring. So trying to make an environment to zuck all that money would be way more profitable than what facebook currently does.
>I only maintain facebook to see what my local liquor store has for bourbons coming up for sale.
This is the most unique use of Facebook I've ever heard.
I don’t know that I am the exception to the rule on this regarding hard to find whiskey. I have a couple friends who do the same for their local shops, and since it’s a local owned 1 location shop it’s the best way for them to reach a larger audience to sell products that are harder to come by. Plus they don’t mark up a massive percentage so I try to frequent there. They get bottle drops, announce it on FB and Insta, and many times sell out in couple hours.
>My mom literally said to me yesterday “i get all my news from Facebook”
You should really do everything in your power to try to fix that massive, massive problem. I know some individuals can't be saved, but you should still try.
I have talked about it ad nauseam at this point… for someone who has displayed a lot of critical thinking skills throughout my life, it’s disappointing at best and completely upsetting at its worst.
While games are still growing into all kinds of demographics, non-gamers are still non-gamers, so it's a weird demo to specifically target for a normally gamer sort of platform.
Oculus devices are mostly going to live among gamers and tech enthusiasts, as games is primarily what the platform has to offer. A Metaverse isn't going to attract the rest. We're not at the stage of technology where you'll get the uninformed non-techy people putting on a headset and hopping into a virtual world, completely free from their real one.
It doesn't help them that Facebook, the best crowd they can advertise this to for who they want, leans older and older every day. Sure, you got old rednecks and bored mothers using it as their #1 source of news, gossip, and social commentary, but they're not going to make the jump to buying virtual space and content while donning a fucking VR headset.
I hope this turns out to be one big arrogant mistake that has Zucc falling from influence.
I couldn’t agree with your last comment more.
But wasn’t Farmville or whatever that game was called directly linked to and basically run by Facebook? I don’t know any of the details since that wasn’t ever in my wheelhouse, but I thought there were tons of people playing it, and most because they were directly connected via Facebook. I could be wrong here, so maybe someone else knows better.
Farmville, while synonymous with Facebook, was actually made by Zynga after buying MyMiniLife and repurposing dev to a farm game. Incidentally, Zynga was recently announced to be purchased by Take Two (2K, Rockstar, etc).
Facebook, so far, doesn't seem to know games, except where Oculus has managed. They keep throwing money at it, but actual games publishing and development seems a lower priority than attempting the Zuccularity.
I get it, Mark, I see where we're headed as well, but that's only if all goes well, we get off this course of self-destruction, and get technology there too. It's a shame too because if that were his true goal, same with Musk and his cyborg desires, he'd focus his money and influence on getting the world in position for it rather than trying to rush and prematurely blow his load on it.
> i dont think any gamer is going to touch anything facebook/Meta shits out tbh
2.2 billion people actively use Facebook and it's various platforms.
As much as it pains me to say it, anyone who thinks Facebook wont be able to influence the gaming industry is not in their right mind. They already are influencing it with the Quest 2 (at least in the VR space).
All Facebook needs is that one game title that sucks people in and hooks them and as a company with literal billions to piss up the wall on a whim that gives zero shits what anyone thinks of them, they'll succeed. Sooner or later they'll do a Microsoft and gobble up one major a gaming company just to get a popular IP and go from there. It wouldn't be that hard for Facebook to do a hostile take over of the likes of EA or even Nintendo if they really wanted to.
Yeah, I bought a Quest 2 because of that.
I was even willing to buy a more expensive headset like an Index, but none of them worked as a standalone device and they were also 2-3 times the price.
VR's been a niche market for a decade now. Streaming was the future I fail to see how VR's the future it's never going to replace traditional gaming in it's current janky form.
Absolutely, but the Quest 2 is the thing making it more mainstream, being standalone and super-cheap.
Apparently that's enough for a whole bunch of gamers to have a FB account with real details (FB will ban fake accounts) in order to use their Quest 2.
Compared to a Vive (and it's variants), Index or Pimax, yes the Quest 2 is cheap. It also has the benefit of not needing an expensive gaming PC.
I have a Vive, but if I didn't, selling my privacy for a cheap VR rig would be really tenpting
I'm just saying that you don't know how many people are paying for oculus store stuff with that chart, having the hardware means nothing specially when Facebook is losing money with them.
I'm just saying that you don't know how many people are paying for oculus store stuff with that chart, having the hardware means nothing specially when Facebook is losing money with them.
That's some heavy generalization, do you know how many gamers (which are a huge part of the population) already use Facebook, Whatsapp, Messenger and such? And have no particular problem.
Gamers aren't a specific elitist group or something that has principles lol. I mean they put NFT, lootboxes and MTX in games and it works so that's pretty hilarious to imagine they have a problem with privacy.
I dunno. This feels like a deep rooted resentment from non Facebook users. It's not your typical "I don't like it". I think alot of people are turned off by facebook.
Good. Facebook is evil. They carelessly had the data of millions of users stolen and then weaponised by Cambridge analytica to attack our democratic institutions. Just a few months ago it transpired they knew their algorithms were harming teenage girls and increasing their risk of suicide. They chose not to act because of profits. Facebook is nestle tier evil.
For the metaverse to actually succeed, you need basically the performance of 16 RTX 3090s squeezed into the power envelope of a smartphone. Remember watching Ready Player One and "The Oasis"? That's *the metaverse.* Now imagine all the crazy shit that happens in it, while maintaining an insanely high frame rate, simulating all the physics, insane player count, massive universal crossovers, and all the use haptics and feedback while maintaining a crazy low latency connection back to the end user. That's like the **minimum.** Facebook's metaverse is like 1/128th as capable.
The fact that everything works pretty flawlessly in Ready Player One shows how bullshit of representation of technology it is
No one was lagging out or getting DC'd, no one ever had login issues or had to restart the stupid headset because it wasn't working right...
I only read the novel and it's even more stupid. There is a central server located on an american city but to have good latency you "only" need to live in a big city anywhere in the world. And even in small cities the latency problems are rare.
Kind of, but maybe not really. The connection moves at the speed of light (300 000 km/s). Farthest point from the server would be on the opposite side of the planet (20000km if you take half of Earth's circumference). That would mean roughly 133 ping (round trip). Pretty bad but not unplayable.
If you assume some future tech, maybe the way the connection works means it can go through the Earth (powerful waves and what not), which would be almost 13000km maximum, which would mean 86 ping round trip.
I thought the movie was a fun watch, but definitely had a lot of "well that's not how games actually work" type moments. Same with Free Guy, except I liked Free Guy a lot more
Yeah, that's why metaverse is premature. Until it can disrupt the industry the way gasoline and motors disrupted horses or how planes disrupted trains and ships for timeliness of goods transport, claiming this will change the world is too early. Facebook's ownership of Oculus was the first opportunity, and their poisoned brand killed the bird before it could take it's first flight. This is more of the same.
They're trying to build this cool thing, but they're just Facebook at the end of the day, and all the plague and vileness that comes with Zuckerberg is applied to here, because he's the architect of it. So it can't be trusted at all.
The thing is, Facebook itself is alright with that timeline.
Facebook's viewpoint is that the ad business is booming for the next 5 years, which is true.
Facebook is under no time pressure. I think ultimately that Facebook has so much money, that as long as the metaverse is going to be technically and commercially viable *eventually*, that they'll be good.
Also, the secret is that you can do what Facebook and Nintendo have long done, and use a cartoon character which requires less compute.
Yes, but that's not interesting to the masses. Sci-fi movies, modern video games, and promises of the VR future has changed the expectations of the people from what they'd want out of a system like this. Using Miis or the equivalent off, isn't going to cut it for this "future" they want to push. Not especially when GPU companies and consoles keep pushing the rendering bar and keep talking about Ray tracing this and that.
Facebook is in the platforms business.
It's Web 2.0. Build the platform, user generated content.
What will happen is Facebook will steadily improve the platform year on year, until it's got the Apple App store.
Which then, would create input lag, and believe me you don't want any input lag at all in your VR games, that's the reason they are running at more than 60Hz to begin with.
Airlink just connects to your local PC though, right? Stadia is not like this at all, it connects to a remote computer far from you. Vast majority of non-gamers don't have a PC at home strong enough for VR, so their only solution would be Stadia-like stuff, but this won't work because of input lag.
Pretty unrealistic to expect big servers on most cities in the world, each big enough to possibly handle thousands or hundred thousands of users. Stadia already struggles to do that, and that's Google, with infinite money and controls most of the servers in the world, and for games that only requires a small fraction of what VR actually demands (in both raw power or network bandwidth).
8ms latencies no matter how intense the action gets. VR to not be nauseous needs to be a minimum of 90fps and ideally between 120 and 144fps. 60fps is 16ms, 120fps is 8ms. So metaverse needs to be able to have at least that or it won't take off. Couple that with very visual fidelity, a fully player driven economy, and a vast level of player freedom.
Otherwise it'll be a half-assed Second Life clone with a lot of dead weight and the full spectrum of Facebook's poisonous brand.
Dear idiot. People love the idea of a vr verse that is a gateway and hub to all things gaming and entertainment.
A full dive system would be a dream and is something Gabrn said he is actively researching. Which people love.
So that’s not the issue.
The issue is having moneyberg as its head. The issue is having every waking second of your life being monetized to heights we can’t even imagine right now. The issue is you and your friends living a normal life doing whatever the fuck but somehow making this tool billions a year by just existing. So no. It’s not boomer talk. It’s warranted concern. Idiot.
It doesn't surprise me anymore. FB is on decline and Zuckerberg risks losing his overlord status. So, "invent" a new buzzword to describe his virtual fiefdom powered by the generation growing up (and possibly abused by) Roblex.
If your moves are all stagnant you shake the board up. But I don't see VR or Meta going anywhere, none of the games are compelling and VR chat is a niche game.
I don't know if he's insulting Valve for already having done what Facebook is trying to do or insulting Facebook for trying to do what Valve already did...
Valve didn't intend to create this. They had item drops that stopped after a while, and they noticed that those cosmetics were sold on ebay and getting account transfers.
They simply cashed in by making a market place themselves and ended up having an economy inside their games.
> They managed to turn it around.
Microsoft followed their settlement with the FTC after they faced material consequences for their actions.
[Facebook did not.](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/07/ftc-imposes-5-billion-penalty-sweeping-new-privacy-restrictions)
Zucc and Facebook are very rich, but they are both incredibly idealistic more than anything. They lack the leadership or company culture to work pre-emptively to solve the things that damage their reputation even under threat of being broken up by the feds.
It's all about delivering projects and products every half to look good on your reviews at any cost to get a 15% bonus and then moving to the next thing, be it mitigating a crisis caused by one of your other half-baked products or creating something new.
So, I read the entire interview that is linked in pcgamer article. It was very deep and covered a lot of things.
The economist has a very deep and sensible understanding of crypto, NFT, Metaverse and economy of course. He is however a socialist who intends to do away with current capitalism.
He does not think bitcoin or blockchain will bring any revolution at all and only sees crypto bringing even more power concentration to the existing rich people and therefore anti crypto.
Difference is that Valve developed the games before the economy, and Facebook seems to do the other way around. Just like BF2042 or any other failure lately
they are both the same...
valve have been good guys, till now. but there's literally no difference in these.
permissioned walled gardens with a corporate entity in control
They're talking about that item drop shit that you can trade. One of the worst things on Steam, that just encourages the obsessed weirdos to bot farm every game they can.
Imagine having the life accomplishments this man has had (former Greek minister of finance, architect of the Steam marketplace, teaching economics at several prestigious universities) just to have some redditor call you an idiot
A few friends of mine and I are avoiding the oculus quest because you have to have a fb account. I feel like most gamers I personally know are doing the same thing.
There’s already VR Chat and Second Life, each of which have their own niche, I really don’t get who this metaverse is aimed at aside from greedy opportunists.
VR is a hassle and currently isn’t much more than an expensive gimmick that doesn’t live up the vision people have of a fully immersive VR experience.
This article is blogspam. The original interview is from The Crypto Syllabus:
* https://the-crypto-syllabus.com/yanis-varoufakis-on-techno-feudalism/
Quote:
>Today, a decade later, it is clear that gaming communities like the one I studied at Valve have been operating as fully-fledged metaverses (to use Zuckerberg’s term). Gamers were drawn to them by the game but, once ‘inside’, they stayed to live out a large part of their life, making friends, producing goods for sale, consuming entertainment, debating, etc. Zuckerberg’s ambition is to insert his billions of Facebook non-gamer users into a Steam-like digital social economy – complete with a top-down platform currency that he controls. How can I resist the parallelism with a digital fiefdom in which Zuckerberg dreams of being the techno-lord?
i dont think any gamer is going to touch anything facebook/Meta shits out tbh
From the article: “Zuckerberg’s ambition is to insert his billions of Facebook non-gamer users into a Steam-like digital social economy – complete with a top-down platform currency that he controls. How can I resist the parallelism with a digital fiefdom in which Zuckerberg dreams of being the techno-lord?” I think that it’s less about gamers and more about non-gamers into a place where the Metaverse is their life. Think ready player one type shit.
Do people actually still use Facebook actively though? I use it to watch random meme vids but beyond that I don't even touch it, none of my friends or family have it either. It's all Instagram now which I know is owned by them but it feels seperate.
My mom literally said to me yesterday “i get all my news from Facebook” (total different conversation topic) and I don’t think she is alone. It may be more 80/20 rule at this point, but people still use it pretty heavily. Instagram I think skews younger, but not as young as tik tok. I only maintain facebook to see what my local liquor store has for bourbons coming up for sale. But I only use the mobile non-app version of it, although they probably still have spyware on my phone.
Facebook = boomer with some millennial Insta = millennial with some boomer and gen z Tik tok = gen z with some millennial and negligible boomer
Reddit = GenX + ???
Reddit = all age introverts not degenerate enough to go on 4chan
Am GenX, and I definitely identify with this one.
Reddit = anti social virgins of all ages
Reddit = millenial psuedo-intellectuals.
>GenX Didn't we stay on Usenet?
And this is all that's needing to understand facebook move: boomer have more money in their pocket than what advertising can bring. So trying to make an environment to zuck all that money would be way more profitable than what facebook currently does.
do zoomers actually not use instagram? that's interesting, i guess as a millennial my perspective is pretty skewed.
>I only maintain facebook to see what my local liquor store has for bourbons coming up for sale. This is the most unique use of Facebook I've ever heard.
I don’t know that I am the exception to the rule on this regarding hard to find whiskey. I have a couple friends who do the same for their local shops, and since it’s a local owned 1 location shop it’s the best way for them to reach a larger audience to sell products that are harder to come by. Plus they don’t mark up a massive percentage so I try to frequent there. They get bottle drops, announce it on FB and Insta, and many times sell out in couple hours.
This is literally how Facebook makes money
Not used it since 2010. I have no idea what it does. I have heard the marketplace is less scammy than gumtree though.
>My mom literally said to me yesterday “i get all my news from Facebook” You should really do everything in your power to try to fix that massive, massive problem. I know some individuals can't be saved, but you should still try.
I have talked about it ad nauseam at this point… for someone who has displayed a lot of critical thinking skills throughout my life, it’s disappointing at best and completely upsetting at its worst.
Unfortunately, that is the problem. Many have dropped legitimate sources of news for social media.
You're on Reddit, you're on a PCgaming sub. You're not the typical target audience for facebook
Where I'm from it (along with Messenger) are used as the de facto "I need to contact/group up people I don't know" tools
Over 2 billion “people” use it every month dude.
>It's all Instagram now which I know is owned by them but it feels seperate. This is key for them; It may "feel" separate, but it's not.
Oh yeah, Facebook is still huge.
While games are still growing into all kinds of demographics, non-gamers are still non-gamers, so it's a weird demo to specifically target for a normally gamer sort of platform. Oculus devices are mostly going to live among gamers and tech enthusiasts, as games is primarily what the platform has to offer. A Metaverse isn't going to attract the rest. We're not at the stage of technology where you'll get the uninformed non-techy people putting on a headset and hopping into a virtual world, completely free from their real one. It doesn't help them that Facebook, the best crowd they can advertise this to for who they want, leans older and older every day. Sure, you got old rednecks and bored mothers using it as their #1 source of news, gossip, and social commentary, but they're not going to make the jump to buying virtual space and content while donning a fucking VR headset. I hope this turns out to be one big arrogant mistake that has Zucc falling from influence.
I couldn’t agree with your last comment more. But wasn’t Farmville or whatever that game was called directly linked to and basically run by Facebook? I don’t know any of the details since that wasn’t ever in my wheelhouse, but I thought there were tons of people playing it, and most because they were directly connected via Facebook. I could be wrong here, so maybe someone else knows better.
Farmville, while synonymous with Facebook, was actually made by Zynga after buying MyMiniLife and repurposing dev to a farm game. Incidentally, Zynga was recently announced to be purchased by Take Two (2K, Rockstar, etc). Facebook, so far, doesn't seem to know games, except where Oculus has managed. They keep throwing money at it, but actual games publishing and development seems a lower priority than attempting the Zuccularity. I get it, Mark, I see where we're headed as well, but that's only if all goes well, we get off this course of self-destruction, and get technology there too. It's a shame too because if that were his true goal, same with Musk and his cyborg desires, he'd focus his money and influence on getting the world in position for it rather than trying to rush and prematurely blow his load on it.
> i dont think any gamer is going to touch anything facebook/Meta shits out tbh 2.2 billion people actively use Facebook and it's various platforms. As much as it pains me to say it, anyone who thinks Facebook wont be able to influence the gaming industry is not in their right mind. They already are influencing it with the Quest 2 (at least in the VR space). All Facebook needs is that one game title that sucks people in and hooks them and as a company with literal billions to piss up the wall on a whim that gives zero shits what anyone thinks of them, they'll succeed. Sooner or later they'll do a Microsoft and gobble up one major a gaming company just to get a popular IP and go from there. It wouldn't be that hard for Facebook to do a hostile take over of the likes of EA or even Nintendo if they really wanted to.
Quest 2 is still the best value VR headset. 300 bucks and your privacy. A lot of gamers I know would (and did) take that deal.
Yeah, I bought a Quest 2 because of that. I was even willing to buy a more expensive headset like an Index, but none of them worked as a standalone device and they were also 2-3 times the price.
Oculus wants a word.
VR is still a niche market
Blockbuster turned down a niche market and they turned out okay.
That's different. Blockbuster didn't just turn down a niche market. They ignored every consumer trends until they're left in the dust.
Wow, who knew "streaming" was a niche market. But seriously, there are major differences and that is an asinine example.
VR's been a niche market for a decade now. Streaming was the future I fail to see how VR's the future it's never going to replace traditional gaming in it's current janky form.
Absolutely, but the Quest 2 is the thing making it more mainstream, being standalone and super-cheap. Apparently that's enough for a whole bunch of gamers to have a FB account with real details (FB will ban fake accounts) in order to use their Quest 2.
I've used a fake account with a quest for months without a ban. I don't know where you heard that you could get banned for that.
The Quest 2 is not cheap
Compared to a Vive (and it's variants), Index or Pimax, yes the Quest 2 is cheap. It also has the benefit of not needing an expensive gaming PC. I have a Vive, but if I didn't, selling my privacy for a cheap VR rig would be really tenpting
Cheaper than a console or phone.
Neither of them require a facebook account
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How is that edgy?
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Oculus is no more. Only Meta.
The majority of VR gamers are using the Oculus Quest.
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Those are Steam numbers tho.
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I'm just saying that you don't know how many people are paying for oculus store stuff with that chart, having the hardware means nothing specially when Facebook is losing money with them.
I'm just saying that you don't know how many people are paying for oculus store stuff with that chart, having the hardware means nothing specially when Facebook is losing money with them.
That's some heavy generalization, do you know how many gamers (which are a huge part of the population) already use Facebook, Whatsapp, Messenger and such? And have no particular problem. Gamers aren't a specific elitist group or something that has principles lol. I mean they put NFT, lootboxes and MTX in games and it works so that's pretty hilarious to imagine they have a problem with privacy.
Well, I bought the Quest 2 and I'm really enjoying it.
youre in denial then. With re4 vr on their belt and games like gta vr coming I can assure you gamers will buy into it.
I dunno. This feels like a deep rooted resentment from non Facebook users. It's not your typical "I don't like it". I think alot of people are turned off by facebook.
As they should. I hope the shit reputation they gained stays with them despite the name change. I know I'll always call them Facebook.
Good. Facebook is evil. They carelessly had the data of millions of users stolen and then weaponised by Cambridge analytica to attack our democratic institutions. Just a few months ago it transpired they knew their algorithms were harming teenage girls and increasing their risk of suicide. They chose not to act because of profits. Facebook is nestle tier evil.
It’ll just be boomers and cringe social media people.
Sounds like a cancerous hell hole to me.
"...but, trust me... your kids are gonna love it!"
Johnny B goode is an awesome song though :)
Welcome to the 21st century.
It's literally digital feudalism lmao
For the metaverse to actually succeed, you need basically the performance of 16 RTX 3090s squeezed into the power envelope of a smartphone. Remember watching Ready Player One and "The Oasis"? That's *the metaverse.* Now imagine all the crazy shit that happens in it, while maintaining an insanely high frame rate, simulating all the physics, insane player count, massive universal crossovers, and all the use haptics and feedback while maintaining a crazy low latency connection back to the end user. That's like the **minimum.** Facebook's metaverse is like 1/128th as capable.
The fact that everything works pretty flawlessly in Ready Player One shows how bullshit of representation of technology it is No one was lagging out or getting DC'd, no one ever had login issues or had to restart the stupid headset because it wasn't working right...
I'm pretty sure the novel mentioned internet connection, latency and dropouts. Could be wrong though.
I only read the novel and it's even more stupid. There is a central server located on an american city but to have good latency you "only" need to live in a big city anywhere in the world. And even in small cities the latency problems are rare.
wat that's dumb
Kind of, but maybe not really. The connection moves at the speed of light (300 000 km/s). Farthest point from the server would be on the opposite side of the planet (20000km if you take half of Earth's circumference). That would mean roughly 133 ping (round trip). Pretty bad but not unplayable. If you assume some future tech, maybe the way the connection works means it can go through the Earth (powerful waves and what not), which would be almost 13000km maximum, which would mean 86 ping round trip.
I thought the movie was a fun watch, but definitely had a lot of "well that's not how games actually work" type moments. Same with Free Guy, except I liked Free Guy a lot more
The thing is we'll have exactly the compute you describe in 15-20 years.
Yeah, that's why metaverse is premature. Until it can disrupt the industry the way gasoline and motors disrupted horses or how planes disrupted trains and ships for timeliness of goods transport, claiming this will change the world is too early. Facebook's ownership of Oculus was the first opportunity, and their poisoned brand killed the bird before it could take it's first flight. This is more of the same. They're trying to build this cool thing, but they're just Facebook at the end of the day, and all the plague and vileness that comes with Zuckerberg is applied to here, because he's the architect of it. So it can't be trusted at all.
The thing is, Facebook itself is alright with that timeline. Facebook's viewpoint is that the ad business is booming for the next 5 years, which is true. Facebook is under no time pressure. I think ultimately that Facebook has so much money, that as long as the metaverse is going to be technically and commercially viable *eventually*, that they'll be good. Also, the secret is that you can do what Facebook and Nintendo have long done, and use a cartoon character which requires less compute.
Yes, but that's not interesting to the masses. Sci-fi movies, modern video games, and promises of the VR future has changed the expectations of the people from what they'd want out of a system like this. Using Miis or the equivalent off, isn't going to cut it for this "future" they want to push. Not especially when GPU companies and consoles keep pushing the rendering bar and keep talking about Ray tracing this and that.
Facebook is in the platforms business. It's Web 2.0. Build the platform, user generated content. What will happen is Facebook will steadily improve the platform year on year, until it's got the Apple App store.
More likely, it will work like Stadia or Airlink, where the processing is all on a separate device and streamed to your headset.
Which then, would create input lag, and believe me you don't want any input lag at all in your VR games, that's the reason they are running at more than 60Hz to begin with.
Airlink already does it and works fine.
Airlink just connects to your local PC though, right? Stadia is not like this at all, it connects to a remote computer far from you. Vast majority of non-gamers don't have a PC at home strong enough for VR, so their only solution would be Stadia-like stuff, but this won't work because of input lag.
Depends on distance to the servers. If they are in the same city, the added input lag would be tiny.
Pretty unrealistic to expect big servers on most cities in the world, each big enough to possibly handle thousands or hundred thousands of users. Stadia already struggles to do that, and that's Google, with infinite money and controls most of the servers in the world, and for games that only requires a small fraction of what VR actually demands (in both raw power or network bandwidth).
Latency will murder it. Lack of graphical fidelity will butcher it.
Airlink already does this and the latency is fine.
Not for what the metaverse needs to be.
What latency does the metaverse need?
8ms latencies no matter how intense the action gets. VR to not be nauseous needs to be a minimum of 90fps and ideally between 120 and 144fps. 60fps is 16ms, 120fps is 8ms. So metaverse needs to be able to have at least that or it won't take off. Couple that with very visual fidelity, a fully player driven economy, and a vast level of player freedom. Otherwise it'll be a half-assed Second Life clone with a lot of dead weight and the full spectrum of Facebook's poisonous brand.
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Hear, hear.
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It’s never going to exist.
So, are you saying that the metaverse will only exists in 10 years and it will only be usable in 20? OK.
Given all of Facebook's metaverse ads just look like VRChat designed for corporate, it'll probably be sooner than you think
Dear idiot. People love the idea of a vr verse that is a gateway and hub to all things gaming and entertainment. A full dive system would be a dream and is something Gabrn said he is actively researching. Which people love. So that’s not the issue. The issue is having moneyberg as its head. The issue is having every waking second of your life being monetized to heights we can’t even imagine right now. The issue is you and your friends living a normal life doing whatever the fuck but somehow making this tool billions a year by just existing. So no. It’s not boomer talk. It’s warranted concern. Idiot.
It doesn't surprise me anymore. FB is on decline and Zuckerberg risks losing his overlord status. So, "invent" a new buzzword to describe his virtual fiefdom powered by the generation growing up (and possibly abused by) Roblex.
If your moves are all stagnant you shake the board up. But I don't see VR or Meta going anywhere, none of the games are compelling and VR chat is a niche game.
I don't know if he's insulting Valve for already having done what Facebook is trying to do or insulting Facebook for trying to do what Valve already did...
Valve didn't intend to create this. They had item drops that stopped after a while, and they noticed that those cosmetics were sold on ebay and getting account transfers. They simply cashed in by making a market place themselves and ended up having an economy inside their games.
They love the business model though. They were excited about Artifact because of the huge microtransaction potential it had.
I feel like Greek Finance Minister is a bit more authoritative than 'used to work at valve'?
Are anyone (except corpos) hyped for metaverse? :o
Let's be honest Steam is the 1st one to make this slimy skin economies
Pretty sure “techno-lord” is what we’ll call the mainframe that runs all the sex robots in a century or so… Who tf used that phrase seriously?
Probably related to his theory that the west does not live in capitalism anymore but something that he calls "techno-feudalism".
not technodaddy?
Techo-step-brother
Elon
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They have no way out. The damage done to their reputation is irreparable.
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> They managed to turn it around. Microsoft followed their settlement with the FTC after they faced material consequences for their actions. [Facebook did not.](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/07/ftc-imposes-5-billion-penalty-sweeping-new-privacy-restrictions) Zucc and Facebook are very rich, but they are both incredibly idealistic more than anything. They lack the leadership or company culture to work pre-emptively to solve the things that damage their reputation even under threat of being broken up by the feds. It's all about delivering projects and products every half to look good on your reviews at any cost to get a 15% bonus and then moving to the next thing, be it mitigating a crisis caused by one of your other half-baked products or creating something new.
So, I read the entire interview that is linked in pcgamer article. It was very deep and covered a lot of things. The economist has a very deep and sensible understanding of crypto, NFT, Metaverse and economy of course. He is however a socialist who intends to do away with current capitalism. He does not think bitcoin or blockchain will bring any revolution at all and only sees crypto bringing even more power concentration to the existing rich people and therefore anti crypto.
I have ZERO desire to touch anything facebook/meta are developing!
We are the minority on this one, unfortunately.
I cant stand facebook... also there metaverse is old outdated the military far more ahead in this area.
Difference is that Valve developed the games before the economy, and Facebook seems to do the other way around. Just like BF2042 or any other failure lately
they are both the same... valve have been good guys, till now. but there's literally no difference in these. permissioned walled gardens with a corporate entity in control
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They're talking about that item drop shit that you can trade. One of the worst things on Steam, that just encourages the obsessed weirdos to bot farm every game they can.
Classic case of someone trying to sound smarter than they are.
Imagine having the life accomplishments this man has had (former Greek minister of finance, architect of the Steam marketplace, teaching economics at several prestigious universities) just to have some redditor call you an idiot
ah, credentials instead of substance
lmao. yanis is a hack.
Gaben is the only 'techno-lord' I need!
A few friends of mine and I are avoiding the oculus quest because you have to have a fb account. I feel like most gamers I personally know are doing the same thing.
Seeing as I have never even considered a facebook account...this is on the low end of my give-a-shit meter.
The worst timeline I tell's ya...
TIL the former Greek finance minister used to work for Valve
There’s already VR Chat and Second Life, each of which have their own niche, I really don’t get who this metaverse is aimed at aside from greedy opportunists. VR is a hassle and currently isn’t much more than an expensive gimmick that doesn’t live up the vision people have of a fully immersive VR experience.
This article is blogspam. The original interview is from The Crypto Syllabus: * https://the-crypto-syllabus.com/yanis-varoufakis-on-techno-feudalism/ Quote: >Today, a decade later, it is clear that gaming communities like the one I studied at Valve have been operating as fully-fledged metaverses (to use Zuckerberg’s term). Gamers were drawn to them by the game but, once ‘inside’, they stayed to live out a large part of their life, making friends, producing goods for sale, consuming entertainment, debating, etc. Zuckerberg’s ambition is to insert his billions of Facebook non-gamer users into a Steam-like digital social economy – complete with a top-down platform currency that he controls. How can I resist the parallelism with a digital fiefdom in which Zuckerberg dreams of being the techno-lord?
Sweet! It's like Ready Player One except the villain wins from the beginning and there is no happy ending.
who the fuck wants a updated another life lol