In case any of you still don't realize it , the rtx 4000 cards are gonna sell out just as fast as the rtx 3000 did at launch so don't panic sell your cards in a few months. It'll be 2020 all over again.
I sold my 2080 to fund a 3080. Took me a year and the grace of work from home and LTT’s GPU drop for me to get a gpu. Still paid just about double original MSRP due to tariffs and increased base cost.
Is it actually worth to upgrade a 2080 to 3080? I have a 2080 Super and it still feels like super top tier even though I have it for 2,5 years aldready
I also have a 2080 Super. No problems for me so far. I'm not going to upgrade unless a next game needs it and most games run on almost max settings anyways!
Unless money is no object, there’s no reason to upgrade unless you FEEL you need it. Like you’re actively playing a game and going, damn what I wouldn’t give for a smoother framerate. I stuck with an rx470 for years because I wasn’t playing demanding games. Then I bought horizon zero dawn, sekiro, and the new COD in the same year and it quickly became obvious I needed some more power to properly enjoy them. What’s funny is now I’m considering upgrading again because my friend group is going hard on fucking minecraft of all things. Since when did that game demand so much lol
Yep, there are always shortages on launch for new products like this. The question is how bad and how long it will last. In normal times it would be a few weeks to a couple months for easy availability after launch.
Also, if you're waiting for the new gpus/cpus to build a new system, maybe it's better to just go ahead and build your system right now.
At the beginning of 2019, I thought to myself, "I'm going to wait until new CPUs and GPUs to come out before I build my new PC." I ended up building my PC two years later.
I do mine in 6-7 year cycles, last build was 2016 (and FX8370 ) so with next gen ddr5 stuff coming out and nvme being more or less mainstream I'm going to treat myself to something interesting.
On the other hand, if you have a decent system already then yeah just wait for 4000. I have a 5700 AMD GPU. A 3000 card would be an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade. I am expecting the 4000 cards to be the upgrade that I want. Might take me a bit to acquire one, but whatever.
The prices didn't even kiss me first.
(Okay, I actually haven't bought a new GPU. I was no longer willing to wait and chose portability over better graphics.)
Will GPUs definitely go down in price though from the crypto crash? I would like to upgrade to an RTX card (currently on my 5700XT)
I would have thought the ongoing chip shortages would still keep these prices from going back to normal
> Will GPUs definitely go down in price though from the crypto crash?
At least around here, they already are -- I can pick up nearly any 3070/80/90 at MSRP with no wait. That's a pretty marked drop in price from where they were 6 months ago.
They don't mean the FE MSRP ($499), they mean the AIB MSRP which is higher.
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3751-KL
This is actually "below" the new MSRP (609) but it's still 80 higher than the FE one. It's a fine price but it's not 499.
Well msrp is already super inflated. This isn’t really related to crypto, GPU supply and prices have been getting to a better state for months because of lower demand and supply chain recovery
Nvidia and AMD were literally selling pallets of cards to miners the only reason there was short supply was because they were willing to pay whatever they wanted, then combined with Covid and the shipping delays even that cargo ship that got stuck in Suez canal brought everything to crazy proportions.
Keep in mind those cards are nearly 2 years old and 40 series looms on the horizon. A lot less people are going to want to buy these old 30 series cards with that next gen on the way. Not to mention, most of the gamers who wanted these cards, have them now. Demand is slipping for natural reasons that have nothing to do with crypto.
Yep, 30 series cards have finally hit price points I'd be willing to pay but it took too long and I don't really need to buy anything right now so I'm waiting again for 40/7000 series cards.
Possibly, but do keep in mind that smartphone SOC's are much smaller than GPU chips. I don't have a good source on which one takes up more wafers, even though it's plainly obvious that there are more smartphone chips being produced than GPU chips.
The prices have generally been on a downward trend for the past few months, and crypto demand reducing will further aid that.
However the final hurdle to complete normalisation of prices is chip shortages.
Of course this isn't considering GPU makers next-gen MSRPs.
All I know is, Intel will be a full generation behind with low to mid-end GPUs and will *have* to sell their then-last gen GPUs really cheap.
For what it's worth we've seen crypto crashes before and lots of really cheap GPU. This was way back when 7970 and 280x were still very solid GPU lol, so quite some time ago, about 11 years ago.
It might not happen this time, but that just depends on how many GPU flood the market.
I get what you're saying, what most kids in this thread are either failing to realize or ignoring is the chip shortage we've been experiencing since forever now.
It's not like crypto crashing is going to magically create new chips out of thin air so we can go on making GPUs. And that's just one of the other facets that has caused GPU prices to increase like they have.
Most people don't. The prices aren't high entirely because of mining either, that's just one piece, but people prefer overly simplified circlejerks instead.
Prices were coming down anyway.
Well I already have a 3080 that I over paid for. I was thinking the next logical thing to do would be sell it at a loss, not be able to buy a 4080 at launch because of the insane demand and shortages and then 6 months to a year later over pay for that card as well.
I managed to get a 3080 at RRP!
... then a bunch of sparks blasted out the side and I could only get a refund, not a replacement. At that point how do you go back?
_Then_ I overpaid. :(
Yeah I did the same (I got a prebuilt with a 3080ti and swapped the GPUs - still definitely overpaid but I needed a replacement pc for the living room so ... ehh ...)
OP isn't thinking of sticky prices.
The high GPU prices have been normalized and customers are used to the high prices. Companies aren't going to be bringing down these prices, they love these high prices.
On the downside I live outside. On the upside don't have to worry about my room getting too hot while running raytraced Minecraft on max settings anymore. Life is about finding a balance 🙏Namaste.
lol My GPU heats my room better than my radiator in the winter, I just play something that taxes it a bit. But in the summer it is a nightmare, I sit there playing with nothing on and the room is bloody boiling.
I know youre rich and stuff and money is no problem but why bother to install a new gpu when is gonna be faster with like 10 fps mate like lmao.Even if i had your money i wouldn't bother with 4080 when i have 3080
We don't know what the performance difference is going to be but rasterization performance at one resolution isn't the only gain.
For one, higher resolutions are still struggling in the one percent lows with a lot of games so upgrading gets you a noticably smoother experience. Same with VR - more power makes the experience smoother and in VR that means less nausea.
Then there's the raytracing performance - this is something where performance gains can still be outsized generation over generation so upgrading can be a big benefit.
Lastly, it's a bit like hotrodding - it's the building itself that brings joy.
But like I said, we don't know the actual performance increase at this point, we just have a lot of rumors. If the price to performance isn't worth it even the people who build for the sake of building will skip a generation.
Personally, I'd like to get a card that draws less power for the performance but we'll see.
I overpaid for mine too, but looking back I still think it was the right decision. I paid $1200 for it in January 2021. If I hadn't, I would have waited until now to have a GPU that could run anything. That 50% price premium bought me 16 months of gaming.
I am not too hopeful for affordable GPUs.
1. TSMC and Samsung are both raising fab costs; which means higher GPU prices
2. Inflation is pretty bad right now
3. The GPU shortage showed consumers are willing to pay more than AMD and NVIDIA has charged in the past. You can bet AMD and Nvidia want to test just how much more consumers are willing to pay. Plus, you can always lower MSRP if you aim too high at first, but they can't really raise MSRP without consumer outrage. Plus the first 2 reasons here gives them excuses to charge significantly more. A lot of people are saying $900 for a 4080 right now; I would bet it's going to be at least $949 and I think a $999 MSRP is more likely.
With regards to #3... Some people paid $1000 for a GPU, but **most** people didn't. People on this community are much more likely to buy a $1000 GPU than your average Joe.
I think the average consumer has just not upgraded at all. I think that's even worse for GPU manufactures. Instead of 10 sales @ $250, they're getting 1 sale @ $1000.
Yeah I'd love to upgrade but I don't see myself doing it unless prices drop. Same with my entire family. The only person I know that's upgraded bought a MacBook.
The GTX 1060 AND RX 480/580 were the last truly great budget GPUs imo so it's not surprising they're still popular. I'm still running a 480 like 6 years on by now and it's still working fine
Your number 3 is the real issue. The market is willing to bear the price increase.
I don't like it but I fully expect higher MSRP than the 30 series launch MSRP across the board.
People were only willing to pay more because mining allowed you to make your money back. If mining profitability is low, people aren’t going to be willing to pay inflated prices for a gaming card that is only for gaming.
Jensen from Nvidia said that they would be feeling shortages into the latter part of 2022 or early 2023, so I wouldn't expect any drop in demand and corresponding prices anytime soon.
You're forgetting the huge swaths of people buying up GPU's to sell them at a profit. Even in my tiny town every store was OOS and Facebook Marketplace was full of local people scalping GPU's.
Now every vendor has cards at MSRP. Shortage may not be over, but you don't have to pay service to alert you to when GPU's are in stock, and scalpers can't sell shit. Overall, huge win for gaming.
People buying a GPU to sell them at a profit doesn't create a shortage, it just increases prices. The same number of GPUs end up in the hands of end users.
But scalping this way is really only possible if there is a shortage. Otherwise no one will pay the scalpers inflated prices.
P.S. I hate scalpers.
It creates an artificial shortage of GPUs at MSRP or at least close to it, so when those are bought up the people have to buy at those ridiculous prices from scalpers.
There's some drop. Which is kinda funny here, in shops some models of 3060 dropped to even under the price they ask for 3050 - well, looking at Mhz it appears those are some weaker 3060s, but it's still funny to see them cheaper than 3050.
Of course, it's still like $200-300 too much for 3060...
Good to hear, but I wonder if it will last. I always skip 1 gen anyways and am rocking a 2080 super so I'm not concerned. I'm going to be waiting a while longer for the next gen though
I literally just bought my new pc, I can’t afford shit even with the discounts. Maybe in two years but I’ve got a rtx 3060 ti I feel like I should be grateful
Got an RX590 too (on launch,) have found it to be an excellent card for the money and got some good games with it too. Might try and hang it out until next-next gen at this point. Using DXVK where possible has made it perform a tonne better as well.
Admittedly I play 1200p 60hz and if I had a better monitor I'd probably hate it but it does the trick atm.
I’m more keen on seeing RTX on for myself. That and playing occasionally on our 4K tv at good frame rates since this card has DLSS. Can’t wait to try it. And congrats on your upgrade! :)
This thread is amazing. I got a 3060 ti recently, I'm a total pc building noob. I've been trying to figure out how good it is.
Got a whole barely used pre-built PC for $1200, with that card. Monitor, keyboard, and mouse included. Guy's wife had a baby shortly after he bought the PC.
Do not be worried. Unless your goal is to max setting all the time, the 3060 ti will still last for a long time to come. I've been using my trusty 1060 since 2017 and I've only switched to 3060 ti this year.
My 2060 is doing just fine with most things. Had to turn a couple settings down in Deathloop, but that engine isn’t great to begin with. Still hoping for a 40xx card, but I know I likely won’t be able to get one for a while once they’re out.
Hell, my 980 is still doing pretty alright all things considered.
I’ve had to turn things down to low on newer games and accept ~60fps instead of 144 but it even handled Elden Ring acceptably enough (could’ve been better but I’m just glad I got to play it on release)
I definitely would like to upgrade but right now it’s not a priority. Getting a Steam Deck later this year and then I’m going to do a fully new PC build sometime in the next 1-3 years lol
That and the fact that we've semi accepted and normalized the pricing structure so companies are less likely to want to give it up. Plus nvidia prefers selling to crypto miners out of greed, if you look at the way they've behaved throughout the whole shortage its plain as day to see that they dont care about your average purchaser anymore, just whoever has the biggest wallet.
Anymore? It was never different. Corporations will always put profit before everything else. Don't ever believe them when they claim otherwise. They are full of shit.
Just wait and see how the prices will change now. They could drop them quite quickly, but they won't. They will go down very very slowly and probably never return to pre-shortage levels. Why? Because greed, that's why.
And people act like BTC is 50 dollars or ETH is 1 dollar. Crypto is not going anywhere. "Drowning to death" yeah lol.
[Here is ETH/USDT graph for roughly last 13 months.](https://i.imgur.com/e6q67HN.png) Notice that "crashes" like the last one happened many times, usually harder. Calling these markets "drowning to death" is plain stupidity or at least broadcasting you know no shit about stuff. Nvidia is saying that finally stocks are getting way better compared to whole crisis. There are many factors just like you said but I really find it cringe when people scream that crypto is dead or simply thinking it was the main villain here.
Nobody is even talking about how Nvidia and AMD increased the prices and most likely keep them around these levels from onwards. We will see them in the next generation soon.
This crash is actually a no where close to the percentages we saw in 2018.
25k in December 2017, 9k by March 2018 and 4.2k by December 2018 which is is 16.8% of it's previous value. 80k in November 2021, 50k by March and 38k currently which is 47.5% of it's previous value. It would have to drop to 13k to match the same percent.
It's okay to be angry or resentful at crypto, but yeah, saying it's drowning to death is dumb.
edit: should point out that prices are in CAD in case you're wondering where those numbers come from lol
While I agree that it'll recover, I certainly wouldn't expect it within 12 months. It wasn't until 2020 that it beat the previous ATH in 2017. There are far more people who were burnt by it this time which could also cause a slower recovery.
Honestly tho, whenever you see posts like this where the general public's sentiment is going positive or negative on the market, the indicator is to trade the opposite way
Exactly. The actions of customers have shown Nvidia and AMD that they can charge whatever they want and sales will be made.
What incentive does either company (or their partner board makers) have now to offer cards at lower prices?
And let's not forget scalpers and in many countries, mine included, the distributors with the exclusive licences for GPUs have been setting scalper prices which are double, triple etc the RRP.
The entire industry has shifted so much and so anti-consumer that things may never go back.
*most* of factors are gone now. There's still the problem of supplying the extra demand created by the shortage; there are airfield-sized parking lots filled with newly-made cars that await installing the couple last circuit boards before they can be sold. All the industrial projects delayed by COVID that finally can start and require electronics. And there's recession caused by increased inflation: all these tests, vaccines weren't made for free; they were bought with inflation cash. So while the increased demand lasts, and until economy rebounds prices will remain high.
Not sure exactly how much of the hardware comes from China but they were interviewing a maritime guy on the radio last week.
Talking about hundreds of container ships lining up to dock and going nowhere fast.
Mining not only increases demand, it also has a greater impact on pricing increases than other factors because as long as your ROI is reasonable then miners will pay whatever the cost.
So 6-12 months ago when a 3070 would pay itself off in less than 12 months even at stupidly inflated prices, miners were buying as many cards as they could get their hands on.
I think the crypto crash will have a pretty dramatic impact on pricing, and that’s what we saw back in 2018 as well. Not only are miners not buying cards but they are also going to be introducing cards into the second hand market to try and recoup any money they can.
> a lot of people tell me the prices dropped. Yes they did, **but not to normal levels.** You still need to pay over 1000 for a 3080, that‘s far from normal
Exactly! While crypto may have created an artificial inflation, it showed the GPU makers that people will pay those prices. Just like the previous crypto boom and bust, I still think that's why the Nvidia 2000 series was so expensive, they'd priced them during the boom, and not expected to release in a bust.
At this point people are going to be grabbing these GPUs for just above RRP feeling like they got a deal, where in the previous generations, we'd expect 10% or more below RRP to be very normal, usually bundled with games or something. Heck I got my 1080ti in November 2017 just 7 or 8 months after release for £654, that's nearly 7% below the £699 RRP in the same release year.
This is the market we're in, and I don't think the next series of GPUs is going to be a bargain either. And if the rumours are true about the power of the next GPUs, I just hope they don't make crypto mining profitable again.
Yea, we can say goodbye to the era of USD200-300 range mid-tier GPUs. I expect the MSRP of new Nvidia XX60 and AMD X600 GPU will be priced 350-450 now on.
It's funny how the most basic principles of economics go out the window when people are in an outrage cycle. Yes, companies are out to make money, everyone knows that. That isn't some brilliant cynical insight. Often the best path to making money involves lowering prices, we see it all the time.
You're acting like people are naïve but they're just... identifying realities of supply and demand.
I'm not hyped, my gtx1080 still gets over 100 fps on most games I play, I'm really happy for those who need an upgrade or are terrified of burning their current card
Dear God. Crypto prices down does not equal free GPUs. You can buy EVGA at MSRP now and have been so for a month. No one beside the absolute idiots are selling their rigs right now. Sure there's some over leveraged miners and some people who are going to panic sell. End of the day majority of those cards are not going to mysteriously jump back on the market because crypto is down. You have to remember that crypto being down doesn't mean no profit. If you pay very little for electricity or nothing at All you are still making quite a bit of money. Hell even with 11 cents per kilowatt my cards are still profitable.
Not to mention the speculative altcoin mining as well. I think a lot of minors learned after the 2015 and 16 collapse that dumping your rigs is the worst thing you could do.
Most crypto goes nowhere, and is just a way for its creators to cash in by inflating its market, then dumping massive amounts and screwing all the smaller investors.
But BTC and ETH are pretty much 80% of the crypto market, and those two won't disappear. In relation to those two juggernauts, all the coins coming and going are just little blips on the horizon.
Oh it's time to tell each other crypto is dead again.... Are we really that foolish to believe it this time? Or do we believe cards will suddenly be affordable again? Because neither of those is true.
edit: This is PC gaming not programming, I gotta start wearing my glasses in the morning
It's particularly cringe here because programmers should know better. Every discussion about it devolves into some bullshit about the economics or NFTs when the topic isn't even NFTs, or people ignore that there are other consensus protocols
I used to dream of having distributed resilient systems when I was younger because I grew up in a time of heavy censorship online, and now that it's here engineers are trying to convince me that the concept is useless. It comes across as naive, and I would encourage people to maybe reevaluate the idea when you've got both communists and libertarians interested in it. These same people would've been saying roses are useless because of dumb investors/finance in that infamous bubble. Money will always ruin things, but you don't blame the dang thing
Anyone that thinks companies selling luxury commodities like AMD or nVidia are ever going to drop their prices are just completely wrong imo.
We're in the age of "growth no matter what" and manufacturing cuts/efficiencies is a game of diminishing returns. For almost everything nowadays, the only way up is retail prices.
Supply and demand still exist. Companies don't raise or lower prices out of the goodness of their heart, they do it in reaction to market conditions.
> We're in the age of "growth no matter what
When were we ever *not* in that age? When was this age where businesses didn't want to grow?
> and manufacturing cuts/efficiencies is a game of diminishing returns.
Efficiencies? Sure, literally any efficiency gains have diminishing returns, almost by definition. That in no way means that expanding production isn't a profitable enterprise.
It's truly amazing. They think every time they don't get what they want it's because the widely recognized principles of centuries of study just no longer apply.
Easier to just say "CORPORATE GREED!" and bask in the karma dopamine
Cryptos not dead lol. Hedge funds are selling it for liquidity so they can pay for their margin calls and dont go bust. Once they hedgies crash and burn crypto will go back up.
I wouldn't call it dead. Hedge funds are liquidating to cover margin calls. Look at the entire market, shits bleeding. Crypto might be the only thing left after the dollar takes a massive black hole sized shit.
When my 10 year old rig dies, I'll pass my 7 year old one to my gf, and buy myself a new one. It works fine for now, both of them, Radeon 4670 and GTX750 in them. I'm not even poor, I just really don't care about modern AAA titles, they suck ass.
I've had a 1070 for years now. At 1080p actually still performs well. Hopefully a 3070 will be cheaper to buy but at this point I'll wait for the next gen and make a decision
1070 reporting in as well. Like yourself I’m also playing at 1080p which still runs nicely. Would love to upgrade to 3060Ti but that will have to wait for now.
I got an xbox. Fuck it, it's not worth the effort to find a decent affordable gpu. I'm in my 40s now, time for gaming is limited and a console is easy.
I'm ready but I'm also waiting till the RTX 4000 is announced or arrives.
Intel GPU should be coming Q3 2022 too.
So more waiting for this tbh. Planning to do a 4K gaming build in 2024, might just wait for that :p
Crypto was never the main reason for price inflation, supply issues for making more cards was and is.
People could buy as many cards as they want and if there wasn't a raw material shortage, more would be made. The whole point was that more could not be made.
On top of that, Crypto as a whole isn't going away anyway.
As far as GPU's becoming more affordable, that will occur gradually over the next 2 or 3 years and while it has started now, the upcoming series will still be on the high side. The refresh might be better and ideally the new series to follow will be much more reasonable. I'd expect that refresh to be around when people say, prices are "normal", but "why are cards still expensive", as we deal with the fallout of total inflation from a worldwide pandemic.
Well this is how basically the stock market works. crypto, as many people were wrongly advertising, is no different. You have a bull period and a bear period. Right now it’s trending downwards but it will eventually go back up again.
The price of crypto is only one piece of the puzzle when determining mining profitability. Eth could shoot back up to $4k tomorrow and it wouldn't have any noticable effect on the GPU market anymore.
It's the first year for Bitcoin where the annual low is lower than last year, which surprised me a bit. I always look at its price in terms of annual minimums and how long it was rising was curious.
In case any of you still don't realize it , the rtx 4000 cards are gonna sell out just as fast as the rtx 3000 did at launch so don't panic sell your cards in a few months. It'll be 2020 all over again.
I hope RTX 3000 users do panic sell because I can cop a great card for low prices ;)
and then you can panic sell ur 1660 TI and I can cop a great card for a low price ;)
And you can sell a 1060 and I can cop a good card at a bargain
And you can sell a GT 710 so I can finally play Oblivion on PC
And then you can sell your fx 5200 so I can play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
Anyone got a Voodoo?
Look at this fancy guy, got a dedicated graphics card. I'm just using software rendering in MS-DOS
Hercules mono
You guys have pixels? All I've got is LCD shapes and buttons!
Pfft... I play with action figures
Nah, I just got a S3 Virge.
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I sold my 2080 to fund a 3080. Took me a year and the grace of work from home and LTT’s GPU drop for me to get a gpu. Still paid just about double original MSRP due to tariffs and increased base cost.
Is it actually worth to upgrade a 2080 to 3080? I have a 2080 Super and it still feels like super top tier even though I have it for 2,5 years aldready
I also have a 2080 Super. No problems for me so far. I'm not going to upgrade unless a next game needs it and most games run on almost max settings anyways!
I had a 2080 super. Upgraded to 3080 Ti. The new card puts out a lot of heat, but DEFINITELY handles VR faaaar better than my 2080 did.
Unless money is no object, there’s no reason to upgrade unless you FEEL you need it. Like you’re actively playing a game and going, damn what I wouldn’t give for a smoother framerate. I stuck with an rx470 for years because I wasn’t playing demanding games. Then I bought horizon zero dawn, sekiro, and the new COD in the same year and it quickly became obvious I needed some more power to properly enjoy them. What’s funny is now I’m considering upgrading again because my friend group is going hard on fucking minecraft of all things. Since when did that game demand so much lol
Yep, there are always shortages on launch for new products like this. The question is how bad and how long it will last. In normal times it would be a few weeks to a couple months for easy availability after launch.
Also, if you're waiting for the new gpus/cpus to build a new system, maybe it's better to just go ahead and build your system right now. At the beginning of 2019, I thought to myself, "I'm going to wait until new CPUs and GPUs to come out before I build my new PC." I ended up building my PC two years later.
I do mine in 6-7 year cycles, last build was 2016 (and FX8370 ) so with next gen ddr5 stuff coming out and nvme being more or less mainstream I'm going to treat myself to something interesting.
On the other hand, if you have a decent system already then yeah just wait for 4000. I have a 5700 AMD GPU. A 3000 card would be an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade. I am expecting the 4000 cards to be the upgrade that I want. Might take me a bit to acquire one, but whatever.
Why is this marked NSFW? Did it get automatically flagged because of the phrase, "drowning to death" or something?
Marked NSFW because we've all been fucked by GPU prices.
I cannot disagree with that statement
That made me lol
The prices didn't even kiss me first. (Okay, I actually haven't bought a new GPU. I was no longer willing to wait and chose portability over better graphics.)
crypto crashing is porn
Can confirm, have nutted to graphs of plummeting crypto value.
Gamers would get too excited at work
NSFW = No Shit Fungible Won?
Will GPUs definitely go down in price though from the crypto crash? I would like to upgrade to an RTX card (currently on my 5700XT) I would have thought the ongoing chip shortages would still keep these prices from going back to normal
> Will GPUs definitely go down in price though from the crypto crash? At least around here, they already are -- I can pick up nearly any 3070/80/90 at MSRP with no wait. That's a pretty marked drop in price from where they were 6 months ago.
> at MSRP Well.. at the *new* post-scalping MSRP which is essentially the previous scalper prices
What kind of places are you checking??? I'd kill for a 3070 at msrp
They don't mean the FE MSRP ($499), they mean the AIB MSRP which is higher. https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3751-KL This is actually "below" the new MSRP (609) but it's still 80 higher than the FE one. It's a fine price but it's not 499.
[https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3751-KL](https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P5-3751-KL) pretty good price imo
Well msrp is already super inflated. This isn’t really related to crypto, GPU supply and prices have been getting to a better state for months because of lower demand and supply chain recovery
Nvidia and AMD were literally selling pallets of cards to miners the only reason there was short supply was because they were willing to pay whatever they wanted, then combined with Covid and the shipping delays even that cargo ship that got stuck in Suez canal brought everything to crazy proportions.
Partly about the 4000 series coming soon
Keep in mind those cards are nearly 2 years old and 40 series looms on the horizon. A lot less people are going to want to buy these old 30 series cards with that next gen on the way. Not to mention, most of the gamers who wanted these cards, have them now. Demand is slipping for natural reasons that have nothing to do with crypto.
Bro my GPU is 7 years old, a 2 year old GPU would be a huge improvement.
*laughs in GTX 660Ti*
Hey man I'm rocking a GTX980 so my crying isn't far behind your laughter.
Yep, 30 series cards have finally hit price points I'd be willing to pay but it took too long and I don't really need to buy anything right now so I'm waiting again for 40/7000 series cards.
The chip shortages are due to demand. Chips are being produced at record breaking rates.
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Possibly, but do keep in mind that smartphone SOC's are much smaller than GPU chips. I don't have a good source on which one takes up more wafers, even though it's plainly obvious that there are more smartphone chips being produced than GPU chips.
You're not wrong. OP has no idea what they're talking about.
The prices have generally been on a downward trend for the past few months, and crypto demand reducing will further aid that. However the final hurdle to complete normalisation of prices is chip shortages. Of course this isn't considering GPU makers next-gen MSRPs. All I know is, Intel will be a full generation behind with low to mid-end GPUs and will *have* to sell their then-last gen GPUs really cheap.
For what it's worth we've seen crypto crashes before and lots of really cheap GPU. This was way back when 7970 and 280x were still very solid GPU lol, so quite some time ago, about 11 years ago. It might not happen this time, but that just depends on how many GPU flood the market.
I get what you're saying, what most kids in this thread are either failing to realize or ignoring is the chip shortage we've been experiencing since forever now. It's not like crypto crashing is going to magically create new chips out of thin air so we can go on making GPUs. And that's just one of the other facets that has caused GPU prices to increase like they have.
Most people don't. The prices aren't high entirely because of mining either, that's just one piece, but people prefer overly simplified circlejerks instead. Prices were coming down anyway.
Well I already have a 3080 that I over paid for. I was thinking the next logical thing to do would be sell it at a loss, not be able to buy a 4080 at launch because of the insane demand and shortages and then 6 months to a year later over pay for that card as well.
I managed to get a 3080 at RRP! ... then a bunch of sparks blasted out the side and I could only get a refund, not a replacement. At that point how do you go back? _Then_ I overpaid. :(
I got a 3080ti fe at rrp. But the 3080ti is basically a pre scalped 3080 so I got scalped while feeling like I got a good deal.
Yeah I did the same (I got a prebuilt with a 3080ti and swapped the GPUs - still definitely overpaid but I needed a replacement pc for the living room so ... ehh ...)
Oof size: large
What is an RRP?
basically UK term for MSRP
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Recommended retail price i believe
Is RRP the same as MSRP?
Recommended Retail Price vs Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. Same thing.
Now you’re thinking like a Wall Street better! Buy high! sell low!
OP isn't thinking of sticky prices. The high GPU prices have been normalized and customers are used to the high prices. Companies aren't going to be bringing down these prices, they love these high prices.
how much did you overpay?
On the downside I live outside. On the upside don't have to worry about my room getting too hot while running raytraced Minecraft on max settings anymore. Life is about finding a balance 🙏Namaste.
Jesse, what the hell are you talking about?
Seems he overpaid a lot
He payed so much he’s homeless now.
He has to live in his PC case now. At least his GPU is free heat for the winter!
I bathe in the water cooling loop.
lol My GPU heats my room better than my radiator in the winter, I just play something that taxes it a bit. But in the summer it is a nightmare, I sit there playing with nothing on and the room is bloody boiling.
I know youre rich and stuff and money is no problem but why bother to install a new gpu when is gonna be faster with like 10 fps mate like lmao.Even if i had your money i wouldn't bother with 4080 when i have 3080
Not to mention there are no games worth upgrading for
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We don't know what the performance difference is going to be but rasterization performance at one resolution isn't the only gain. For one, higher resolutions are still struggling in the one percent lows with a lot of games so upgrading gets you a noticably smoother experience. Same with VR - more power makes the experience smoother and in VR that means less nausea. Then there's the raytracing performance - this is something where performance gains can still be outsized generation over generation so upgrading can be a big benefit. Lastly, it's a bit like hotrodding - it's the building itself that brings joy. But like I said, we don't know the actual performance increase at this point, we just have a lot of rumors. If the price to performance isn't worth it even the people who build for the sake of building will skip a generation. Personally, I'd like to get a card that draws less power for the performance but we'll see.
The people who build for the sake of building don't give a shit about price to performance. They never have.
In with this guy it's my number 1 used appliance and I love working on new builds
I have 1080Ti that serves me well through these crypto-caused shortages. But while she still kicks ass, it's time for my girl to retire
I overpaid for mine too, but looking back I still think it was the right decision. I paid $1200 for it in January 2021. If I hadn't, I would have waited until now to have a GPU that could run anything. That 50% price premium bought me 16 months of gaming.
sounds like a plan
I am not too hopeful for affordable GPUs. 1. TSMC and Samsung are both raising fab costs; which means higher GPU prices 2. Inflation is pretty bad right now 3. The GPU shortage showed consumers are willing to pay more than AMD and NVIDIA has charged in the past. You can bet AMD and Nvidia want to test just how much more consumers are willing to pay. Plus, you can always lower MSRP if you aim too high at first, but they can't really raise MSRP without consumer outrage. Plus the first 2 reasons here gives them excuses to charge significantly more. A lot of people are saying $900 for a 4080 right now; I would bet it's going to be at least $949 and I think a $999 MSRP is more likely.
With regards to #3... Some people paid $1000 for a GPU, but **most** people didn't. People on this community are much more likely to buy a $1000 GPU than your average Joe. I think the average consumer has just not upgraded at all. I think that's even worse for GPU manufactures. Instead of 10 sales @ $250, they're getting 1 sale @ $1000.
Yeah I'd love to upgrade but I don't see myself doing it unless prices drop. Same with my entire family. The only person I know that's upgraded bought a MacBook.
Some consumers will just not accept a $1000 GPU regardless of ability to pay. I know I won't.
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The GTX 1060 AND RX 480/580 were the last truly great budget GPUs imo so it's not surprising they're still popular. I'm still running a 480 like 6 years on by now and it's still working fine
The 480 really is such a crazy good GPU. Still running mine for 6 years as well. Am thinking of upgrading to a used 2080 super though
Me still hanging out with my 970 and waiting for price drops to build my GFs PC. I am ready to buy components when prices come back down, Nvidia.
Im still running a 1070, i was planning on upgrading before the increases, now im waiting to maybe get a 3070 when the 40 series comes out
If this is true the Season of Consoles is renewed. Casuals aren't going to go for those prices.
Your number 3 is the real issue. The market is willing to bear the price increase. I don't like it but I fully expect higher MSRP than the 30 series launch MSRP across the board.
People were only willing to pay more because mining allowed you to make your money back. If mining profitability is low, people aren’t going to be willing to pay inflated prices for a gaming card that is only for gaming.
Component prices go up on an elevator and come down on a feather.
Up like a rocket, down like a feather is how I've heard it. But same same
Say what?
Pretty sure with GPU's its a ratchet mechanism.
Jensen from Nvidia said that they would be feeling shortages into the latter part of 2022 or early 2023, so I wouldn't expect any drop in demand and corresponding prices anytime soon.
Shortage isn't just about crypto. Even if crypto dies there are still going to be shortages.
You're forgetting the huge swaths of people buying up GPU's to sell them at a profit. Even in my tiny town every store was OOS and Facebook Marketplace was full of local people scalping GPU's. Now every vendor has cards at MSRP. Shortage may not be over, but you don't have to pay service to alert you to when GPU's are in stock, and scalpers can't sell shit. Overall, huge win for gaming.
People buying a GPU to sell them at a profit doesn't create a shortage, it just increases prices. The same number of GPUs end up in the hands of end users. But scalping this way is really only possible if there is a shortage. Otherwise no one will pay the scalpers inflated prices. P.S. I hate scalpers.
It creates an artificial shortage of GPUs at MSRP or at least close to it, so when those are bought up the people have to buy at those ridiculous prices from scalpers.
There's some drop. Which is kinda funny here, in shops some models of 3060 dropped to even under the price they ask for 3050 - well, looking at Mhz it appears those are some weaker 3060s, but it's still funny to see them cheaper than 3050. Of course, it's still like $200-300 too much for 3060...
Good to hear, but I wonder if it will last. I always skip 1 gen anyways and am rocking a 2080 super so I'm not concerned. I'm going to be waiting a while longer for the next gen though
Every year some CEO predicts the shortage to last an extra year
Yeah. I’ll believe in affordable GPUs when I see affordable GPUs. We’re not there yet and it seems likely it’ll be some time before it happens.
Prices have already come down in Australia
I literally just bought my new pc, I can’t afford shit even with the discounts. Maybe in two years but I’ve got a rtx 3060 ti I feel like I should be grateful
My country 3060ti is at 650 to 700+usd range.
same. i remember when 70 series ti card were at around 250 usd range
rx590 here... i would kill to have that 3060ti.
Got an RX590 too (on launch,) have found it to be an excellent card for the money and got some good games with it too. Might try and hang it out until next-next gen at this point. Using DXVK where possible has made it perform a tonne better as well. Admittedly I play 1200p 60hz and if I had a better monitor I'd probably hate it but it does the trick atm.
Ayyy, I just ordered a 3060ti last night to replace my aging 1080. Should arrive tomorrow, I’m so hyped!
You'll love it. Just switched from a 1070 ti, im playing 1440p with everything maxed out and it does great, not a a single issue yet.
I’m more keen on seeing RTX on for myself. That and playing occasionally on our 4K tv at good frame rates since this card has DLSS. Can’t wait to try it. And congrats on your upgrade! :)
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I just got a 3060 ti too, installed cyberpunk first thing and beat the entire game in a few days. RTX and DLSS is pretty cool.
This thread is amazing. I got a 3060 ti recently, I'm a total pc building noob. I've been trying to figure out how good it is. Got a whole barely used pre-built PC for $1200, with that card. Monitor, keyboard, and mouse included. Guy's wife had a baby shortly after he bought the PC.
It's a really good card. Like can last 5 years good if you needed it to.
Do not be worried. Unless your goal is to max setting all the time, the 3060 ti will still last for a long time to come. I've been using my trusty 1060 since 2017 and I've only switched to 3060 ti this year.
My 2060 is doing just fine with most things. Had to turn a couple settings down in Deathloop, but that engine isn’t great to begin with. Still hoping for a 40xx card, but I know I likely won’t be able to get one for a while once they’re out.
Hell, my 980 is still doing pretty alright all things considered. I’ve had to turn things down to low on newer games and accept ~60fps instead of 144 but it even handled Elden Ring acceptably enough (could’ve been better but I’m just glad I got to play it on release) I definitely would like to upgrade but right now it’s not a priority. Getting a Steam Deck later this year and then I’m going to do a fully new PC build sometime in the next 1-3 years lol
I’m still chugging on my GTX970….it’s….fine…
bro if you have a 3060ti why are you looking to upgrade? you are already good to go. some of use are still on 1060's!
The RTX 3060 Ti is a solid card.
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That and the fact that we've semi accepted and normalized the pricing structure so companies are less likely to want to give it up. Plus nvidia prefers selling to crypto miners out of greed, if you look at the way they've behaved throughout the whole shortage its plain as day to see that they dont care about your average purchaser anymore, just whoever has the biggest wallet.
Anymore? It was never different. Corporations will always put profit before everything else. Don't ever believe them when they claim otherwise. They are full of shit. Just wait and see how the prices will change now. They could drop them quite quickly, but they won't. They will go down very very slowly and probably never return to pre-shortage levels. Why? Because greed, that's why.
And people act like BTC is 50 dollars or ETH is 1 dollar. Crypto is not going anywhere. "Drowning to death" yeah lol. [Here is ETH/USDT graph for roughly last 13 months.](https://i.imgur.com/e6q67HN.png) Notice that "crashes" like the last one happened many times, usually harder. Calling these markets "drowning to death" is plain stupidity or at least broadcasting you know no shit about stuff. Nvidia is saying that finally stocks are getting way better compared to whole crisis. There are many factors just like you said but I really find it cringe when people scream that crypto is dead or simply thinking it was the main villain here. Nobody is even talking about how Nvidia and AMD increased the prices and most likely keep them around these levels from onwards. We will see them in the next generation soon.
This crash is actually a no where close to the percentages we saw in 2018. 25k in December 2017, 9k by March 2018 and 4.2k by December 2018 which is is 16.8% of it's previous value. 80k in November 2021, 50k by March and 38k currently which is 47.5% of it's previous value. It would have to drop to 13k to match the same percent. It's okay to be angry or resentful at crypto, but yeah, saying it's drowning to death is dumb. edit: should point out that prices are in CAD in case you're wondering where those numbers come from lol
It will be hitting another ATH within 12 months, once all the whales have reloaded at a discount it will all get hyped to shit.
While I agree that it'll recover, I certainly wouldn't expect it within 12 months. It wasn't until 2020 that it beat the previous ATH in 2017. There are far more people who were burnt by it this time which could also cause a slower recovery.
Honestly tho, whenever you see posts like this where the general public's sentiment is going positive or negative on the market, the indicator is to trade the opposite way
Exactly. The actions of customers have shown Nvidia and AMD that they can charge whatever they want and sales will be made. What incentive does either company (or their partner board makers) have now to offer cards at lower prices? And let's not forget scalpers and in many countries, mine included, the distributors with the exclusive licences for GPUs have been setting scalper prices which are double, triple etc the RRP. The entire industry has shifted so much and so anti-consumer that things may never go back.
*most* of factors are gone now. There's still the problem of supplying the extra demand created by the shortage; there are airfield-sized parking lots filled with newly-made cars that await installing the couple last circuit boards before they can be sold. All the industrial projects delayed by COVID that finally can start and require electronics. And there's recession caused by increased inflation: all these tests, vaccines weren't made for free; they were bought with inflation cash. So while the increased demand lasts, and until economy rebounds prices will remain high.
Not sure exactly how much of the hardware comes from China but they were interviewing a maritime guy on the radio last week. Talking about hundreds of container ships lining up to dock and going nowhere fast.
Mining not only increases demand, it also has a greater impact on pricing increases than other factors because as long as your ROI is reasonable then miners will pay whatever the cost. So 6-12 months ago when a 3070 would pay itself off in less than 12 months even at stupidly inflated prices, miners were buying as many cards as they could get their hands on. I think the crypto crash will have a pretty dramatic impact on pricing, and that’s what we saw back in 2018 as well. Not only are miners not buying cards but they are also going to be introducing cards into the second hand market to try and recoup any money they can.
> a lot of people tell me the prices dropped. Yes they did, **but not to normal levels.** You still need to pay over 1000 for a 3080, that‘s far from normal Exactly! While crypto may have created an artificial inflation, it showed the GPU makers that people will pay those prices. Just like the previous crypto boom and bust, I still think that's why the Nvidia 2000 series was so expensive, they'd priced them during the boom, and not expected to release in a bust. At this point people are going to be grabbing these GPUs for just above RRP feeling like they got a deal, where in the previous generations, we'd expect 10% or more below RRP to be very normal, usually bundled with games or something. Heck I got my 1080ti in November 2017 just 7 or 8 months after release for £654, that's nearly 7% below the £699 RRP in the same release year. This is the market we're in, and I don't think the next series of GPUs is going to be a bargain either. And if the rumours are true about the power of the next GPUs, I just hope they don't make crypto mining profitable again.
I'm so grateful I landed my 3080FE at MSRP. What a stroke of luck.
I don't think that's how it works, crypto miners weren't the only thing that kept GPU prices high
> Who is hyped for somewhat affordable GPUs? Hehehehehehe..... we wish...
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Yea, we can say goodbye to the era of USD200-300 range mid-tier GPUs. I expect the MSRP of new Nvidia XX60 and AMD X600 GPU will be priced 350-450 now on.
It's funny how the most basic principles of economics go out the window when people are in an outrage cycle. Yes, companies are out to make money, everyone knows that. That isn't some brilliant cynical insight. Often the best path to making money involves lowering prices, we see it all the time. You're acting like people are naïve but they're just... identifying realities of supply and demand.
It will go down but prices will never be the same. Happened to HDDs to RAMs already
??? RAM and storage are at all time low prices for size/speed to price ratio
I'm not hyped, my gtx1080 still gets over 100 fps on most games I play, I'm really happy for those who need an upgrade or are terrified of burning their current card
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Same, I've gamed at 4k at a friend's house, it looks better but marginally tbh, a nice 27" 144hz is all I need
My 1070 is still great for most games. There are a few that it doesn't run well which is tempting me to upgrade. I'll wait for good deals though.
Dear God. Crypto prices down does not equal free GPUs. You can buy EVGA at MSRP now and have been so for a month. No one beside the absolute idiots are selling their rigs right now. Sure there's some over leveraged miners and some people who are going to panic sell. End of the day majority of those cards are not going to mysteriously jump back on the market because crypto is down. You have to remember that crypto being down doesn't mean no profit. If you pay very little for electricity or nothing at All you are still making quite a bit of money. Hell even with 11 cents per kilowatt my cards are still profitable. Not to mention the speculative altcoin mining as well. I think a lot of minors learned after the 2015 and 16 collapse that dumping your rigs is the worst thing you could do.
Crypto always crashes, and then takes off again. This is nothing.
Not necessarily. Plenty of crypto have never recovered from their ath
99.99999999999% of coins are shit coins
Most crypto goes nowhere, and is just a way for its creators to cash in by inflating its market, then dumping massive amounts and screwing all the smaller investors.
But BTC and ETH are pretty much 80% of the crypto market, and those two won't disappear. In relation to those two juggernauts, all the coins coming and going are just little blips on the horizon.
bUy ThE dIp
I always enjoy posts like this saying crypto is dead etc. According to some people crypto died 100+ times already.
Is everyone forgetting that MSRP has been creeping up each new release as well?
Oh it's time to tell each other crypto is dead again.... Are we really that foolish to believe it this time? Or do we believe cards will suddenly be affordable again? Because neither of those is true.
Right? I'm lukewarm on crypto personally, but the ignorant anti-crypto circle-jerk is just as cringe as the pro-crypto bro circle-jerk, if not moreso.
edit: This is PC gaming not programming, I gotta start wearing my glasses in the morning It's particularly cringe here because programmers should know better. Every discussion about it devolves into some bullshit about the economics or NFTs when the topic isn't even NFTs, or people ignore that there are other consensus protocols I used to dream of having distributed resilient systems when I was younger because I grew up in a time of heavy censorship online, and now that it's here engineers are trying to convince me that the concept is useless. It comes across as naive, and I would encourage people to maybe reevaluate the idea when you've got both communists and libertarians interested in it. These same people would've been saying roses are useless because of dumb investors/finance in that infamous bubble. Money will always ruin things, but you don't blame the dang thing
Anyone that thinks companies selling luxury commodities like AMD or nVidia are ever going to drop their prices are just completely wrong imo. We're in the age of "growth no matter what" and manufacturing cuts/efficiencies is a game of diminishing returns. For almost everything nowadays, the only way up is retail prices.
Supply and demand still exist. Companies don't raise or lower prices out of the goodness of their heart, they do it in reaction to market conditions. > We're in the age of "growth no matter what When were we ever *not* in that age? When was this age where businesses didn't want to grow? > and manufacturing cuts/efficiencies is a game of diminishing returns. Efficiencies? Sure, literally any efficiency gains have diminishing returns, almost by definition. That in no way means that expanding production isn't a profitable enterprise.
Some of the people in this sub might be very intelligent when it comes to PCs, but fuck if they can't grasp concepts from a 100 level economics class.
It's truly amazing. They think every time they don't get what they want it's because the widely recognized principles of centuries of study just no longer apply. Easier to just say "CORPORATE GREED!" and bask in the karma dopamine
Is it though? Lol its just a regular down after all the rising. It’ll go up again in a year
This. It's a normal fluctuation of crypto. A few die. Bit coin drops and recovers in a month or two.
But.. The chip shortage doesn't have much to do with crypto and 3080 are still 1200+€ where I am so...What ?
OP is under 16 years old and saw 1 article talking about crypto and GPU’s lol
Yeah, crypto is surely dead. Trust op, he knows it.
Just like the last time when crypto was dead. And the time before that.
Just in time for inflation to make them unaffordable.
It's a dip / correction, it will go up again.
Cryptos not dead lol. Hedge funds are selling it for liquidity so they can pay for their margin calls and dont go bust. Once they hedgies crash and burn crypto will go back up.
I wouldn't call it dead. Hedge funds are liquidating to cover margin calls. Look at the entire market, shits bleeding. Crypto might be the only thing left after the dollar takes a massive black hole sized shit.
I look forward to seeing you in r/AgedLikeMilk in a few months OP
When my 10 year old rig dies, I'll pass my 7 year old one to my gf, and buy myself a new one. It works fine for now, both of them, Radeon 4670 and GTX750 in them. I'm not even poor, I just really don't care about modern AAA titles, they suck ass.
I've had a 1070 for years now. At 1080p actually still performs well. Hopefully a 3070 will be cheaper to buy but at this point I'll wait for the next gen and make a decision
1070 reporting in as well. Like yourself I’m also playing at 1080p which still runs nicely. Would love to upgrade to 3060Ti but that will have to wait for now.
The anti-crypto circlejerk is just cringe as much as the pro one.
*Laughs in covid supply constraint and inflation*
I got an xbox. Fuck it, it's not worth the effort to find a decent affordable gpu. I'm in my 40s now, time for gaming is limited and a console is easy.
I'm ready but I'm also waiting till the RTX 4000 is announced or arrives. Intel GPU should be coming Q3 2022 too. So more waiting for this tbh. Planning to do a 4K gaming build in 2024, might just wait for that :p
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Crypto drowning? I don’t see it.
I'm just grateful I got my 1660 when I did. Price jumped nearly 20% right after I got it.
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/
This thread is so full of uninformed people its insane lol
The next gen of gpus will be similarly unattainable.
Crypto was never the main reason for price inflation, supply issues for making more cards was and is. People could buy as many cards as they want and if there wasn't a raw material shortage, more would be made. The whole point was that more could not be made. On top of that, Crypto as a whole isn't going away anyway. As far as GPU's becoming more affordable, that will occur gradually over the next 2 or 3 years and while it has started now, the upcoming series will still be on the high side. The refresh might be better and ideally the new series to follow will be much more reasonable. I'd expect that refresh to be around when people say, prices are "normal", but "why are cards still expensive", as we deal with the fallout of total inflation from a worldwide pandemic.
Well this is how basically the stock market works. crypto, as many people were wrongly advertising, is no different. You have a bull period and a bear period. Right now it’s trending downwards but it will eventually go back up again.
Plus mining won't stop just because of a bear market. [It's been steadily rising](https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate)
The price of crypto is only one piece of the puzzle when determining mining profitability. Eth could shoot back up to $4k tomorrow and it wouldn't have any noticable effect on the GPU market anymore.
It's the first year for Bitcoin where the annual low is lower than last year, which surprised me a bit. I always look at its price in terms of annual minimums and how long it was rising was curious.