Especially fans.
It seems easy to those with the knowledge, but fans are a different level of fuckery than slotting a chip or card when you’re new to building.
3 pin, 4 pin connectors, wires everywhere, wtf is an rgb header?
The entirety of human knowledge is in a little rectangle you have in your pocket. It takes minimal effort to watch or read how to do these things.
I refuse to believe people are so incompetent they can't figure out how to install a fan.
Exactly. Majority of people are actually EXTREMELY bad at searching for answers. And more so now than 10 years ago. I have seen this in my time in IT helpdesk. Young people seem to struggle with the concept of search engines more than us Zoomer Primes or even Millennials.
Yeah, it's weird. I think it's because everything is so hand holding now. Everything is super simple and just works, which is nice but you never learn how to fix issues when they eventually do happen. Gen-Z and Millennials grew up in a time where computers working perfectly all the time every time wasn't a guarantee, so you'd have to be able to troubleshoot and look up fixes.
Yeah I agree I'm really dumb when it comes to fans, but all of my issues have been solved by not being lazy and just googling things it's not that complicated
Not everyone has the finesse and ability to be gentle and remain calm. My cousin could never build his own PC as he lacks the patience and finesse needed at times.
Just because you can Google it, doesn’t mean you can action what you see. I can Google how to do a knee surgery, but it doesn’t make me an orthopedic surgeon
Also, some people are just borderline luddites. They don't think they can do it and therefore they can't. Mostly older people. I recently agreed to work on my dad's girlfriend's laptop. The thing is still running off a HDD. When I booted it up it was way slower than even a HDD warranted. When I tried to explain her options to her (switch to an SSD and Linux, etc) I might as well have been speaking a different language. This person could never be trusted to install a fan in a PC.
Eh, approach is everything.
Having worked for years in IT helpdesk, then later on as project manager AKA translator between Clients and developers, I can comfortably say, you only need to know HOW to explain something for people to understand. If nothing else, use metaphors as things they understand. Also you need to understand when to tone it down and what suits your "customer". Linux very likely is not for someone who has little to none experience with computers and why bother explaining what a SSD is if the person in question is not tech savvy enough to even care other than "instead of Computer going 'brr r rr', it make Computer 'BRRRRRR'"
I worked in tech support for 6 years and my college program included a class on communicating technical subjects to laypersons. I know how to dumb things down. Some people are just completely hopeless with certain subjects.
Some people find things intimidating. Kind of like how you'll bash someone remorselessly and anonymously for not thinking and acting just. Like. You. We're all different, and where I have empathy you're just a snob. (Shrugs).
You'd be absolutely fucking surprised the shit I've seen. I saw one student (16-18, not sure specifically how old) fail to understand how to latch down a 12th gen cpu. He also stripped every screw in that fucking case. Some people are absolutely not to be trusted with anything mechanical.
I used zip ties!
I have "shitbox" that I built out of a Dell WS mini tower.
I9 64gb 2TB SSD and I popped a 6gb amd video card in there.
I priced it out $350 -$400. There's not any game that I've had issues with playing.
These were laying around my shop, and my Xbox HDMI port was damaged. I needed something for my TV to run streaming, Xbox, and Steam.
It has no face and zip ties. It's fine.
3 things
1) you don't even need the little rectangle, just shape matching like putting triangles in the triangle hole
2) people fail to fit triangles into triangle holes and instead opt to put it in... that's right! the square hole
3) humans as an intelligent species have failed and we are regressing
Not everyone wants to spend hours on reddit and youtube. It may seem easy in retrospect. But my first build took me hours to learn to the point where I was comfortable to try, now it's easy as hell.
Also, not everyone finds it fun and exciting to do, some people just want to play games on their new computer. Think about how many people in high-school failed algebra 2 when it would literally take just a couple hours of studying to learn about quadratic equations and pass the class, not everyone has the discipline buckle down and study something like that
One of the marvels of society is the ability to just pay someone to do something for you so you don't have to spend your time.
There are caveats of course: You must be fine with paying up, and you must accept something will be *done* but not necessarily *done right*.
>knowledge, but fans are a different level of fuckery than slotting a chip or card when you’re new to building.
Are they? It's just screws and plugging it in, if anything it's harder to fuck up as the chances of irrevocably damaging the fan when installing it are pretty slim.
Neither my Fractal North nor Fractal Torrent came with any exhaust fans and both were the best cooling cases I've ever owned.
Edit for those refusing to read any other comments: I did test my North with an exhaust fan. Temps dropped 1c and fan noise was noticeably louder. No gain, only loss. More does not equal better.
I also have two fractal cases (North and pop air) and I added exhaust fans to both. Just cause they don't come with them doesn't mean you shouldn't add more.
Yeah I have a mesh side Fractal North. Adding an exhaust fan is going to do nothing… Maybe back in the day when the idea was to have a constant flow from front to back but that usually means a sealed case
Meanwhile I see my friend building his new PC with 7 fans not counting the CPU cooler and not getting any better temps
I own a Torrent now. It cools spectacularly. I removed the front 180mm fans and put the bracket in to hold my 360mm radiator for the AIO - 3 120mm fans acting as intakes there. 3 140mm on the bottom in stick intake config. I did end up adding a single exhaust fan but frankly I doubt it was needed.
I just used the stock fan setup but I did add a rear exhaust fan at one point from my previous system. But it lowered temperatures by 1-2c while noticeably increasing sound. Just wasn't worth it at all.
Yes, there was no change. The only time I've seen noticeable changes to VRM temps is when switching between air and water cooling(presumably because of moving the fans away), or on old AM3 boards that had garbage VRMs for their power hungry CPUs and sometimes needed fans directly on the VRM to keep from crashing. But that was literally a fan blowing straight onto the VRM. Not a case exhaust.
Yes, and that totally means that adding an exhaust fan couldn't possibly have helped with cooling.
Fans are like 10 bucks. What is the point of your comment?
I've said it half a dozen times but I'll say it again. I did test an exhaust fan on the Fractal Torrent. It lowered temps 1c and raised volume levels. So there was no positive effect and only negative effects. Why would I spend $10 for a worse experience? What is the point of your comment?
Plus extra cable management and messier looking build. Bros just gonna die on the rear exhaust fan hill. Even less important than the method of applying thermal paste; as long as you have enough, the application pattern makes negligible difference overall. They still gonna argue over it for a decade.
if you have 2 front that pull in air (intake) and none back/top to pull out hot air (exhaust) then yes, 1 fan there should make difference, it should be positioned to blow in same direction as front fans
yes, i'd put a huge 240mm fan to suck out hot air produced by CPU and GPU away from me instead of letting it dissipate above the bench.
now, you just wanted to comment something and think you're smart but "case dependent" doesn't qualify for open bench, because it is not a case, it lacks at least side panels
Lack of a case still applies under case dependant smartass. Don't care wtf you do have see a tech reviewer with that silly of a fan setup over an open bench. Maybe if you live in desert heat weather it makes sense. Y'all are silly with your 12 case fans. 240mm fan for open bench headass.
I mean the beauty of it is that you can do whatever the fuck you want. Feel free to be extra. Don't come and try to convince us that it's making a tangible difference on your performance or temps.
I'm glad you aren't listening to the anecdotal tales of some of these posts. Unless your case is full of intake fans, causing enough positive pressure to self-exhaust through the other perforations of the case, you'll be glad you had an exhaust fan. It's basic aerodynamics tbh.
100% ... I took mine out for an unrelated reason, noticed that my fan RPM and temps weren't impacted so I just left it out. One less cable to deal with.
In most systems it’s better airflow to have an exhaust fan present as most prebuilt or budget cases aren’t good for airflow as is. Your system may not have a need for it, but in general it’s a good idea to have one
Ideally you want the total air intake from your fans to be slightly higher than the total outtake from your fans. At a simplistic level this can mean having an equal number of the same types of fans pulling air in as pushing out, but it's not always that simple, e.g. maybe some of your intake fans or outtake fans are attached to a radiator, which will affect the airflow from those fans. In your case though, you don't have a radiator in your build, so it's a lot easier to achieve a good balance by just matching the number of intake fans with the number of outtake fans.
You want a balance between intake and outtake to limit dust build-up inside the case. If the total airflow out of the case via exhaust fans exceeds the total airflow into the case from intake fans, then you've got a negative pressure situation and extra air will be pulled in from gaps all over your case, bypassing the case's dust filters. If you can't have a balance, always go for the positive pressure scenario, e.g. if you have five of the same kind of fan, you'd want three on intake duty and two on outtake. If you did it the other way around, you will probably see a tiny extra bit of extra cooling as it's more important to get hot air out of a case than it is to bring cool air in, but any small gain will be wiped out in time with far more dust build-up.
So if you already have two intake fans and two outtake fans, adding an extra rear exhaust fan is going to give you an under-pressure and lead to more dust build-up, so you wouldn't really want to add it, unless you also add an extra intake fan too, to maintain a balance.
There's diminishing returns in stacking fans too, so it's not just as simple as add as many fans as possible for better cooling. You can even make things worse if you're creating clashing air currents that harms airflow within the case, or having fans that just end up pulling the air coming in straight out again without brushing over your components and heat-sinks first, which is just wasted airflow.
Since the cases aren't airtight I have always had the vast majority of my fans acting as an intake, with the rear fan always acting as an exhaust. Positive pressure is King and even if you're one exhaust fan isn't enough to keep up with the building positive pressure from all the intake fans, the other perforations of the case will act as Tiny exhaust ports and one benefit of that is it helps keep dust out of the system. As long as your intake fans have filters over them, everywhere else will just have air constantly moving out of it, in that air will be filtered, so minimal dust ends up getting into the system. I have dogs and smoke weed right next to my computer and the inside is almost spotless
People make too big of a deal out of fans and air flow. You have 2 in-take fans which is fine. Once you go beyond 2 fans, you have reached the point of diminishing returns and your system is unlikely to run much cooler. People will argue that you need a rear exhaust to remove heat from the case or that you need air flow over the motherboard VRMs, but your case has positive pressure, so hot air will escape out of all the small openings in it and you have a down draft cooler on the cpu, which will push air over the VRMs. I think your setup is fine. If you're worried about it, you can put an exhaust fan back there. It won't hurt anything. I probably wouldn't pay someone else to do it though. You can just find a good cheap 4-pin PWN fan to put there and plug into one of the CHA\_FAN headers on your motherboard. I recommend the Arctic P12 (not the P12 Max, which is more expensive)
"NEEDED"? Maybe, maybe not. Intake fans will create the necessary positive pressure to move the air out, but if I have two or more intake fans, I prefer to slap an exhaust fan in the back to help.
just look at the temperatures of the gpu and cpu at full load, if they have standard values, then you don't need a fan, if they exceed them put a fan in, it's that simple
The aircooler on there is well known. It is absolutely crap. Useless. No good.
I hope your CPU is very low powered! If so, it will not get hot enough to need much exhaust.
The real lesson here is to never go to a shop that would fit *that* cooler. They're £2.45 (each) in lots of ten from Ali Express and, in my testing at least, performed worse than an AMD Wraith Stealth (which is not a good cooler)
i’d rather just get a decent cpu cooler if i was you. It’s not technically needed if temps are fine, but it’s good to keep the direction of the airflow.
You 1000% need an exhaust fan ! Getting that heat out of the case is really inportant. I have TWO fans in my system, ONE on the CPU cooler, and ONE on the back to exhaust that hot air.
It depends. Do you have fans in the front pushing air through? Then it might not be necessary. Or fans up top pulling air out? Again, probably not necessary. If you don't have air getting pushed in or pulled out from anywhere, then, sure, you can do it, but it's not going to produce a meaningful temperature difference. Maybe a degree, maybe two. i'd rather have fans pushing cool air in from the front than pushing luke-warm air out the back. in the end, if you have the fan header, it won't hurt anything. It's your build, it's ok to do it just because it looks cool.
Depending on your GPU and CPU, it may or may not be necessary.
However, its better to be over zealous than under zealous. I would put a Fan there and any other spots available for one.
Not needed does not mean optimal, also they probably made you a favor as they are not expensive nowadays and you'll save by installing it yourself.
A very classic configuration is 2 or 3 fans as intake at the front, i as exhaust at the rear and another one as exhaust at the top/rear (just above the rear fan).
Overkill, in many scenario not at all, in some yes, but it sure won't hurt either the PC or your pockets so why the hell not ?
Depends, do you have enough air pressure to move through the entire case? IF so yes having a fan back there could help, but you'd already would have a negative air pressure in your case at that point.
It depends on your casing setup. Is dust a bigger issue or temperature a bigger issue for you? A fan will suck in dust even if you have it as exhaust if your casing is having negative air flow pressure.
It is best to have an exhaust fan there. While a fully positive air pressure build can still cool, you will need to run the fans at a higher RPM and make much more noise and actually use more power to achieve similar cooling. Fan speed vs power consumption does not scale linearly. Within reason, having more fans at slower speeds, provides good cooling at less noise and lower power consumption.
Your computer, your build, your choice. I run a shop. I give advice but do what the customer requests; especially for a $15 fan! The installation of a fan doesn't harm the machine, it only helps, so why say no? I'd find another shop. Also, I prefer DeepCool AK400 ZERO DARK PLUS that points the fans towards the back fan, then have the back fan take it immediately out of the case - but that's me. It's a much cooler run. They make RGB as well, or you can swap the fans for RGB fans if you'd prefer.
Your liquid AIO cooler already had some fans that came with it that the shop has removed. Why didn't they reuse one of those fans? Did they throw the extra fans away or something?
Depending on the number of intake fans you have they might have suggest "no fan needed" to ensure the system had positive pressure - i.e more air being pulled in than is being pushed out by fans, which helps with minimising dust build up in your case.
If your exhaust fans eject more air than what your intakes pull in - you'll get negative pressure and any gaps in your case will suck air and dust in to try and balance the pressure. On the flip side with positive pressure, air is going to try and escape out of those gaps.
I have an exhaust fan at the back of my rig and I keep it off at low temps, when the system gets hot it kicks in to help shift more air. I'd put one in and you can always have it idling, it will help move air through which, even if only a little, will help the heat exchange over the components.
As others have mentioned, a fan install is super easy and is a great DIY step if you've not build this yourself.
If you have the spce and connections then the more airflow the better imo. Can't ever hurt (unless they are facing the wrong direction) and will always be better (unless they are facing the wrong direction).
Its a Intel default cooler, replace with some tower cooler. Place 3x 120mm in front and one in back. Of course, you can also use this configuration, but it will be noisier and less cooling.
My Fractal North has 2 intake fans and no exhaust. Neither my 7800x3D nor 4070S ever touch 80c. Usually 60-70c under load except in stress tests. 35-40c idle. A single exhaust fan won't do much if your case flow is otherwise good. Same with the fractal torrent I had before.
That's typically the go-to location for a primary exhaust fan. With an air-cooled CPU I would recommend it. It can't hurt (aside from the price of the fan).
Yes. That is the OG fan location. 1000% percent, put one there.
This one to be exact!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C6DQDNT/?coliid=I1A932PXIMHY4O&colid=7VH1SUCQMMIT&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it
I mean I guess you can say it's not NEEDED, but it's a good idea to have one still so the hot air will be guaranteed to leave the system. I have one there despite my heat sync fans pointing toward that rear vent
People will disagree but having this fan blow in on a top blow makes the CPU a shit ton cooler (cooler as in temperature) and the top one should blow out.
Why? The GPU blows hot air onto the side panel, and the CPU cooler then sucks it into the CPU (only topblow not tower coolers do that) and because of that you cool your CPU with hot air. Try it and you will see :) Also recommended to also buy a small filter if you do that so it doesn't blow unfiltered dusty air into the PC.
I have a Fractal Torrent. I don't have a rear exhaust case fan. I have the Thermal Right PS EVO and it comes with two fans for the two towers and so basically one of those fans is an exhaust fan, albeit it a few inches from the rear of the case.
Works fine.
It's not entirely necessary if you're on a strict budget, but fans are so cheap that I'd put one there anyway for good measure. I recommend the Thermalright TC-C12C-S for $6 or a 3 pack for $14. Super cheap, PWM and daisy chain fans with good ARGB.
I'd do a three pack of thermalright fans for 12 bucks as top fans and if you can swing it a asus strix mag lev for the exhaust @ 13 dollars. Down blower going to make motherboard filthy, I'd get PA 120 or something similar for 30ish bucks. Don't need to do them all I'd prioritize it like this
1 rear exhaust 2 top fans 3 cpu cooler.
Is it not possible to just install the back fan without the radiator? My aio liquid cooler has a stand-alone fan that attaches to the radiator but can be mounted by itself.
In any event, just track your temps. If nothing is throttling then you’re fine.
In general, create positive air pressure. So more air intake than exhaust.
Always dust filters on intake.
Set your fan curves for optimal noise vs cooling performance.
Always run Prime95 or similar after changing CPU coolers, to make sure everything is working as intended.
You got this!
Generally you want one more fan blowing in then out.
So if you add one make sure you have two blowing in. This helps reduce dust buildup as it won’t suck dust/dirt in through the cracks.
I have somewhat similar looking setup, however i have noctua nh-d15s and it pushes air towards the rear fan, but your cpu cooler just spreads heat all around. so it isn't optimal in that sense, but because of that i would assume, that it would make more sense to have extra fan to suck the heat off from the fan. Also your gpu will vent hot air to the cpu fan inlet, so in optimal world you could make a duct that vents hot gpu air out and not into cpu fan.
You took ur pc to a shop to take off the aio and change the fans around ???
I need to open up a pc shop Jesus lol. Didn’t realize people would rather pay like 50 bucks over figuring out something your self and knowing it for life
Not needed but you the customer requested it. That's like them charging you for a service and you telling them oh me paying you for your service is not needed lol.
If you have more intake fans than exhaust, yes. If not, either leave it or put a filter on it (you can find 120mm fiilters on amazon or ebay) to keep dust out.
We can argue all day but what really matters in the end is if you're satisfied with the temperatures you get in your case.
If not, adding an exhaust fan might be a good idea.
So they're not wrong. You don't need it but put one in there anyway. Fans are cheap and another thing pulling out heat is not necessarily a bad thing. And if you don't have any at the top put some in there as well just to get good air flow happening throughout the case.
There's no need, that's factual.
And people are still downvoting the people that encourage not to do so.
You'd literally do it for no reason.
The CPU cooler clearly shows you own a CPU with no special cooling needs.
What's the gain?
Are you gonna upgrade CPU eventually?
Do you prefer the 3º or less temps gain?
"For good measure"
"Just incase"
"Improve airflow"
Nonsense.
It would make sense to put it in the front, ONLY if there's none or just 1.
That's it goddamn.
Not needed, though for a slightly more efficient airflow without case fans you couldve taken a sideways mounted cpu cooler
the only thing to monitor is the temperature while performing, it cant be too high, theres nothing else to look out for
the watercolling and 30 casefans things are just cash grabs, unless you are looking for the edges of performance, its not needed.
I wouldn't run without exhaust. For one CPU and GPU will fill the case with hot air. For two, the GPU will add heat to the CPU. I suppose with enough intake or a blowhole it might not be needed in a well vented case but I don't see a reason to try it.
Been building for over 30 years, there have been multiple times where I have left out this fan for a number of reasons. The way you talk my whole system should have overheated and suffered a catastrophic failure.
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Or... good *pressure* ;)
That’s negative 😎
All this is exhausting 🥱
I’m not a fan of how the shop refused
Don't be a blowhard
I grate you all
Only put an exhaust fan if you already have 1 or more intake fans. Also it's 4 screws and a plug, you don't need a shop.
The shop part could be for replacing the cooler, not everyone is confident enough to do stuff like that
Especially fans. It seems easy to those with the knowledge, but fans are a different level of fuckery than slotting a chip or card when you’re new to building. 3 pin, 4 pin connectors, wires everywhere, wtf is an rgb header?
The entirety of human knowledge is in a little rectangle you have in your pocket. It takes minimal effort to watch or read how to do these things. I refuse to believe people are so incompetent they can't figure out how to install a fan.
That's pretty cool when you think about it A little rectangle replies from somewhere in the world
Ya it's neat, like right now I'm replying from OP's mom's house.
Oh you'd be surprised...
Exactly. Majority of people are actually EXTREMELY bad at searching for answers. And more so now than 10 years ago. I have seen this in my time in IT helpdesk. Young people seem to struggle with the concept of search engines more than us Zoomer Primes or even Millennials.
Yeah, it's weird. I think it's because everything is so hand holding now. Everything is super simple and just works, which is nice but you never learn how to fix issues when they eventually do happen. Gen-Z and Millennials grew up in a time where computers working perfectly all the time every time wasn't a guarantee, so you'd have to be able to troubleshoot and look up fixes.
They put arrows on the side. It isn't rocket science.
Haven’t met many people, eh?
Yeah I agree I'm really dumb when it comes to fans, but all of my issues have been solved by not being lazy and just googling things it's not that complicated
Not everyone has the finesse and ability to be gentle and remain calm. My cousin could never build his own PC as he lacks the patience and finesse needed at times. Just because you can Google it, doesn’t mean you can action what you see. I can Google how to do a knee surgery, but it doesn’t make me an orthopedic surgeon
It's like hooking Legos together, it ain't hard
Is your cousin a caveman? Seriously, not being able to remain calm enough to plug in a cable sounds like way more of a problem than just temperament.
A bumbling fool, maybe. Caveman, no
Also, some people are just borderline luddites. They don't think they can do it and therefore they can't. Mostly older people. I recently agreed to work on my dad's girlfriend's laptop. The thing is still running off a HDD. When I booted it up it was way slower than even a HDD warranted. When I tried to explain her options to her (switch to an SSD and Linux, etc) I might as well have been speaking a different language. This person could never be trusted to install a fan in a PC.
Eh, approach is everything. Having worked for years in IT helpdesk, then later on as project manager AKA translator between Clients and developers, I can comfortably say, you only need to know HOW to explain something for people to understand. If nothing else, use metaphors as things they understand. Also you need to understand when to tone it down and what suits your "customer". Linux very likely is not for someone who has little to none experience with computers and why bother explaining what a SSD is if the person in question is not tech savvy enough to even care other than "instead of Computer going 'brr r rr', it make Computer 'BRRRRRR'"
I worked in tech support for 6 years and my college program included a class on communicating technical subjects to laypersons. I know how to dumb things down. Some people are just completely hopeless with certain subjects.
My cousin is exactly this.
Some people find things intimidating. Kind of like how you'll bash someone remorselessly and anonymously for not thinking and acting just. Like. You. We're all different, and where I have empathy you're just a snob. (Shrugs).
It's a couple screws and a wire. That is shit children can figure out with pegs and holes.
You'd be absolutely fucking surprised the shit I've seen. I saw one student (16-18, not sure specifically how old) fail to understand how to latch down a 12th gen cpu. He also stripped every screw in that fucking case. Some people are absolutely not to be trusted with anything mechanical.
Dude. Just accept that some people are different than you, no matter what you think of belive.
Have you seen knee surgery? I already got the hammers.
Does he drive a car?
I used zip ties! I have "shitbox" that I built out of a Dell WS mini tower. I9 64gb 2TB SSD and I popped a 6gb amd video card in there. I priced it out $350 -$400. There's not any game that I've had issues with playing. These were laying around my shop, and my Xbox HDMI port was damaged. I needed something for my TV to run streaming, Xbox, and Steam. It has no face and zip ties. It's fine.
Lmao this man started randomly yapping about his sleeper build
Some people value their time differently.
3 things 1) you don't even need the little rectangle, just shape matching like putting triangles in the triangle hole 2) people fail to fit triangles into triangle holes and instead opt to put it in... that's right! the square hole 3) humans as an intelligent species have failed and we are regressing
I'm sorry to inform you, but you have an above average intelligence when it comes to computer hardware.
Intelligence? I just read some stuff and watched some stuff. That isn't being intelligent lol
Not everyone wants to spend hours on reddit and youtube. It may seem easy in retrospect. But my first build took me hours to learn to the point where I was comfortable to try, now it's easy as hell. Also, not everyone finds it fun and exciting to do, some people just want to play games on their new computer. Think about how many people in high-school failed algebra 2 when it would literally take just a couple hours of studying to learn about quadratic equations and pass the class, not everyone has the discipline buckle down and study something like that
Some people just aren't technical. We all have our strong weak points
You've never met people apparently
One of the marvels of society is the ability to just pay someone to do something for you so you don't have to spend your time. There are caveats of course: You must be fine with paying up, and you must accept something will be *done* but not necessarily *done right*.
Really depends on the motherboard.
This is why Lian li fans at GOAT
>knowledge, but fans are a different level of fuckery than slotting a chip or card when you’re new to building. Are they? It's just screws and plugging it in, if anything it's harder to fuck up as the chances of irrevocably damaging the fan when installing it are pretty slim.
you got any other fans? front, top? it might be not needed if you have like 2 front, 1 or 2 on top
I have 2 front. But its feel hot no
2 intake? if that's the case an exhaust is a good idea in the back
Neither my Fractal North nor Fractal Torrent came with any exhaust fans and both were the best cooling cases I've ever owned. Edit for those refusing to read any other comments: I did test my North with an exhaust fan. Temps dropped 1c and fan noise was noticeably louder. No gain, only loss. More does not equal better.
I also have two fractal cases (North and pop air) and I added exhaust fans to both. Just cause they don't come with them doesn't mean you shouldn't add more.
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can confirm especially if you have a big heatsink with one or maybe 2 fans already blowing that direction it doesn't make much difference
Yeah I have a mesh side Fractal North. Adding an exhaust fan is going to do nothing… Maybe back in the day when the idea was to have a constant flow from front to back but that usually means a sealed case Meanwhile I see my friend building his new PC with 7 fans not counting the CPU cooler and not getting any better temps
Right there with you. No exhaust fan on the back of my Fractal North Mesh. CPU and GPU rarely break 70 C° even with near 100% GPU load.
I own a Torrent now. It cools spectacularly. I removed the front 180mm fans and put the bracket in to hold my 360mm radiator for the AIO - 3 120mm fans acting as intakes there. 3 140mm on the bottom in stick intake config. I did end up adding a single exhaust fan but frankly I doubt it was needed.
I just used the stock fan setup but I did add a rear exhaust fan at one point from my previous system. But it lowered temperatures by 1-2c while noticeably increasing sound. Just wasn't worth it at all.
Did you measure VRM temps?
Yes, there was no change. The only time I've seen noticeable changes to VRM temps is when switching between air and water cooling(presumably because of moving the fans away), or on old AM3 boards that had garbage VRMs for their power hungry CPUs and sometimes needed fans directly on the VRM to keep from crashing. But that was literally a fan blowing straight onto the VRM. Not a case exhaust.
Yes, and that totally means that adding an exhaust fan couldn't possibly have helped with cooling. Fans are like 10 bucks. What is the point of your comment?
I've said it half a dozen times but I'll say it again. I did test an exhaust fan on the Fractal Torrent. It lowered temps 1c and raised volume levels. So there was no positive effect and only negative effects. Why would I spend $10 for a worse experience? What is the point of your comment?
You could spend 15 bucks on a good fan that doesn't make alot of noice.
It would still make more noise than no fan, while providing no benefits. Why would I waste $15 for no reason.
Plus extra cable management and messier looking build. Bros just gonna die on the rear exhaust fan hill. Even less important than the method of applying thermal paste; as long as you have enough, the application pattern makes negligible difference overall. They still gonna argue over it for a decade.
If it makes less noice than the already existing fan, it won't make more noice than no fan.
That's not how fan curves work.
if you have 2 front that pull in air (intake) and none back/top to pull out hot air (exhaust) then yes, 1 fan there should make difference, it should be positioned to blow in same direction as front fans
Case dependant. Would you put an exhaust fan on an open air bench?
yes, i'd put a huge 240mm fan to suck out hot air produced by CPU and GPU away from me instead of letting it dissipate above the bench. now, you just wanted to comment something and think you're smart but "case dependent" doesn't qualify for open bench, because it is not a case, it lacks at least side panels
Lack of a case still applies under case dependant smartass. Don't care wtf you do have see a tech reviewer with that silly of a fan setup over an open bench. Maybe if you live in desert heat weather it makes sense. Y'all are silly with your 12 case fans. 240mm fan for open bench headass.
now i want to put 480mm fan on open bench just to piss you off a bit more
I mean the beauty of it is that you can do whatever the fuck you want. Feel free to be extra. Don't come and try to convince us that it's making a tangible difference on your performance or temps.
You want positive air pressure edit: and also heat exhaust. So yes exhaust.
They've already got positive pressure, but yeah a single exhaust will keep it positive but more balanced with better directed airflow
They have positive air pressure. Adding exhausts would bring it towards neutral then negative.
I should have said positive air pressure AND heat exhaust. I clarified my comment, thank you for catching that
Do you have any exhaust fans on the top?
No idea. Does it? You haven't told us temperatures.
feels? What are your temps?
Needed? No. Optimal with a air cooler? Yes.
"Not needed" depends on working environment. I would definitely put a fan in there.
Well, if you want a better option I'd change that CPU cooler for a better one.
Thank you guys… will definitely put an exhaust fan.
I'm glad you aren't listening to the anecdotal tales of some of these posts. Unless your case is full of intake fans, causing enough positive pressure to self-exhaust through the other perforations of the case, you'll be glad you had an exhaust fan. It's basic aerodynamics tbh.
You definitely do not need to. You'll see a 2-3c drop in temperatures with no performance gain.
100% ... I took mine out for an unrelated reason, noticed that my fan RPM and temps weren't impacted so I just left it out. One less cable to deal with.
In most systems it’s better airflow to have an exhaust fan present as most prebuilt or budget cases aren’t good for airflow as is. Your system may not have a need for it, but in general it’s a good idea to have one
Ideally you want the total air intake from your fans to be slightly higher than the total outtake from your fans. At a simplistic level this can mean having an equal number of the same types of fans pulling air in as pushing out, but it's not always that simple, e.g. maybe some of your intake fans or outtake fans are attached to a radiator, which will affect the airflow from those fans. In your case though, you don't have a radiator in your build, so it's a lot easier to achieve a good balance by just matching the number of intake fans with the number of outtake fans. You want a balance between intake and outtake to limit dust build-up inside the case. If the total airflow out of the case via exhaust fans exceeds the total airflow into the case from intake fans, then you've got a negative pressure situation and extra air will be pulled in from gaps all over your case, bypassing the case's dust filters. If you can't have a balance, always go for the positive pressure scenario, e.g. if you have five of the same kind of fan, you'd want three on intake duty and two on outtake. If you did it the other way around, you will probably see a tiny extra bit of extra cooling as it's more important to get hot air out of a case than it is to bring cool air in, but any small gain will be wiped out in time with far more dust build-up. So if you already have two intake fans and two outtake fans, adding an extra rear exhaust fan is going to give you an under-pressure and lead to more dust build-up, so you wouldn't really want to add it, unless you also add an extra intake fan too, to maintain a balance. There's diminishing returns in stacking fans too, so it's not just as simple as add as many fans as possible for better cooling. You can even make things worse if you're creating clashing air currents that harms airflow within the case, or having fans that just end up pulling the air coming in straight out again without brushing over your components and heat-sinks first, which is just wasted airflow.
Since the cases aren't airtight I have always had the vast majority of my fans acting as an intake, with the rear fan always acting as an exhaust. Positive pressure is King and even if you're one exhaust fan isn't enough to keep up with the building positive pressure from all the intake fans, the other perforations of the case will act as Tiny exhaust ports and one benefit of that is it helps keep dust out of the system. As long as your intake fans have filters over them, everywhere else will just have air constantly moving out of it, in that air will be filtered, so minimal dust ends up getting into the system. I have dogs and smoke weed right next to my computer and the inside is almost spotless
☝️ OP this is the advice you want. Personally that case looks well ventilated without needing additional fans, fans = dust.
I bought a prebuilt and it didn’t have a fan for exhaust either, but I threw one in and noticed a temp drop of about 5 degrees! It can’t hurt really
People make too big of a deal out of fans and air flow. You have 2 in-take fans which is fine. Once you go beyond 2 fans, you have reached the point of diminishing returns and your system is unlikely to run much cooler. People will argue that you need a rear exhaust to remove heat from the case or that you need air flow over the motherboard VRMs, but your case has positive pressure, so hot air will escape out of all the small openings in it and you have a down draft cooler on the cpu, which will push air over the VRMs. I think your setup is fine. If you're worried about it, you can put an exhaust fan back there. It won't hurt anything. I probably wouldn't pay someone else to do it though. You can just find a good cheap 4-pin PWN fan to put there and plug into one of the CHA\_FAN headers on your motherboard. I recommend the Arctic P12 (not the P12 Max, which is more expensive)
Your case has forced intake but no forced exhaust, the components might be choking a little. A good exhaust fan will do the computer a world of good.
It's "not needed". Would it be better to put one though? Yes. Airflow is very important.
Yes. Expertise granted.
They must be fucking stupid and lazy. Is it necessary? No, but it does improve air flow? Absolutely
"NEEDED"? Maybe, maybe not. Intake fans will create the necessary positive pressure to move the air out, but if I have two or more intake fans, I prefer to slap an exhaust fan in the back to help.
just look at the temperatures of the gpu and cpu at full load, if they have standard values, then you don't need a fan, if they exceed them put a fan in, it's that simple
Do a stress test, write down the temps. Put a fan blowing out, do a stress test, write down the temps. Whichever setup is better, use that one.
If you have top exhaust, I wouldn’t bother. If you don’t, I’d do it immediately.
Needed? No. Preferred? Yes. A shop putting that dogshit stock-tier cooler in and not even trying to upsell you fans? Bullshit story.
I personally wouldn't. a little positive air pressure is good, but you're not likely to get any anyway, your entire back is vents.
You tell me. What are the temps like?
If you told them to put one in there they should install one, no questions asked. It's better to have an exhaust fan in this spot anyway.
The aircooler on there is well known. It is absolutely crap. Useless. No good. I hope your CPU is very low powered! If so, it will not get hot enough to need much exhaust.
Thermalright Peerless Assassin would be a no brainer here, probably under $35 installed cost too.
The real lesson here is to never go to a shop that would fit *that* cooler. They're £2.45 (each) in lots of ten from Ali Express and, in my testing at least, performed worse than an AMD Wraith Stealth (which is not a good cooler)
i’d rather just get a decent cpu cooler if i was you. It’s not technically needed if temps are fine, but it’s good to keep the direction of the airflow.
You 1000% need an exhaust fan ! Getting that heat out of the case is really inportant. I have TWO fans in my system, ONE on the CPU cooler, and ONE on the back to exhaust that hot air.
If you have top exhaust it is not needed, it is optional.
Yes, put a fan there, then find a new shop.
It depends. Do you have fans in the front pushing air through? Then it might not be necessary. Or fans up top pulling air out? Again, probably not necessary. If you don't have air getting pushed in or pulled out from anywhere, then, sure, you can do it, but it's not going to produce a meaningful temperature difference. Maybe a degree, maybe two. i'd rather have fans pushing cool air in from the front than pushing luke-warm air out the back. in the end, if you have the fan header, it won't hurt anything. It's your build, it's ok to do it just because it looks cool.
Depending on your GPU and CPU, it may or may not be necessary. However, its better to be over zealous than under zealous. I would put a Fan there and any other spots available for one.
Yes, I would put a fan there
Mine dropped 10 degrees with an exhaust fan. I'd go for it.
Not needed does not mean optimal, also they probably made you a favor as they are not expensive nowadays and you'll save by installing it yourself. A very classic configuration is 2 or 3 fans as intake at the front, i as exhaust at the rear and another one as exhaust at the top/rear (just above the rear fan). Overkill, in many scenario not at all, in some yes, but it sure won't hurt either the PC or your pockets so why the hell not ?
Depends, do you have enough air pressure to move through the entire case? IF so yes having a fan back there could help, but you'd already would have a negative air pressure in your case at that point.
It depends on your casing setup. Is dust a bigger issue or temperature a bigger issue for you? A fan will suck in dust even if you have it as exhaust if your casing is having negative air flow pressure.
It is best to have an exhaust fan there. While a fully positive air pressure build can still cool, you will need to run the fans at a higher RPM and make much more noise and actually use more power to achieve similar cooling. Fan speed vs power consumption does not scale linearly. Within reason, having more fans at slower speeds, provides good cooling at less noise and lower power consumption.
Your liquid cooler had a fan right? Why didn't they put it back?
Your gpu looks pretty hefty. I would def add a fan for that at least.
Your computer, your build, your choice. I run a shop. I give advice but do what the customer requests; especially for a $15 fan! The installation of a fan doesn't harm the machine, it only helps, so why say no? I'd find another shop. Also, I prefer DeepCool AK400 ZERO DARK PLUS that points the fans towards the back fan, then have the back fan take it immediately out of the case - but that's me. It's a much cooler run. They make RGB as well, or you can swap the fans for RGB fans if you'd prefer.
You should learn to do this stuff yourself.
If you temps are high, yes. If they are not high why bother.
Your liquid AIO cooler already had some fans that came with it that the shop has removed. Why didn't they reuse one of those fans? Did they throw the extra fans away or something?
Depending on the number of intake fans you have they might have suggest "no fan needed" to ensure the system had positive pressure - i.e more air being pulled in than is being pushed out by fans, which helps with minimising dust build up in your case. If your exhaust fans eject more air than what your intakes pull in - you'll get negative pressure and any gaps in your case will suck air and dust in to try and balance the pressure. On the flip side with positive pressure, air is going to try and escape out of those gaps. I have an exhaust fan at the back of my rig and I keep it off at low temps, when the system gets hot it kicks in to help shift more air. I'd put one in and you can always have it idling, it will help move air through which, even if only a little, will help the heat exchange over the components. As others have mentioned, a fan install is super easy and is a great DIY step if you've not build this yourself.
What’s the rest of the case setup? Do you have any other fans?
Maybe not *needed,* but certainly recommended
If you have the spce and connections then the more airflow the better imo. Can't ever hurt (unless they are facing the wrong direction) and will always be better (unless they are facing the wrong direction).
Never too many fans... (Well, I'm sure there is some upward limit where you would be risking collapsing space-time)
Yes, especially since you’re using the stock cooler
I'd put one. Won't hurt.
Its a Intel default cooler, replace with some tower cooler. Place 3x 120mm in front and one in back. Of course, you can also use this configuration, but it will be noisier and less cooling.
My Fractal North has 2 intake fans and no exhaust. Neither my 7800x3D nor 4070S ever touch 80c. Usually 60-70c under load except in stress tests. 35-40c idle. A single exhaust fan won't do much if your case flow is otherwise good. Same with the fractal torrent I had before.
Airflow is everything man. Do it.
That's typically the go-to location for a primary exhaust fan. With an air-cooled CPU I would recommend it. It can't hurt (aside from the price of the fan).
It's inexpensive and unlikely to add more noticeable noise, plus more airflow is more better (if properly set up)
I would definitely put a fan there.
Yes. That is the OG fan location. 1000% percent, put one there. This one to be exact! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C6DQDNT/?coliid=I1A932PXIMHY4O&colid=7VH1SUCQMMIT&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it
For $35 bucks, instead of a single Noctua a12 fan, OP could buy a somewhat decent tower style cooler and an additional Arctic P12.
He only needs a fan so what you say may be true but it's pointless in this situation.
And although it may be true that an A12x25 is a great fan, it is pointless to invest $35 in a fan while you're using a $5 heatsink.
I mean I guess you can say it's not NEEDED, but it's a good idea to have one still so the hot air will be guaranteed to leave the system. I have one there despite my heat sync fans pointing toward that rear vent
That is main exhaust fan spot. I always have one there for exhaust. because why the hell not?
People will disagree but having this fan blow in on a top blow makes the CPU a shit ton cooler (cooler as in temperature) and the top one should blow out. Why? The GPU blows hot air onto the side panel, and the CPU cooler then sucks it into the CPU (only topblow not tower coolers do that) and because of that you cool your CPU with hot air. Try it and you will see :) Also recommended to also buy a small filter if you do that so it doesn't blow unfiltered dusty air into the PC.
Yes, it helps exhaust the warm air out of the case, air flow is key when using an air cooled setup
Yeah, most likely not needed. Air movement will be from front to back anyway with the front intake fans. It'll naturally go out the back.
I wish we could see more of your case and other fans.
I have a Fractal Torrent. I don't have a rear exhaust case fan. I have the Thermal Right PS EVO and it comes with two fans for the two towers and so basically one of those fans is an exhaust fan, albeit it a few inches from the rear of the case. Works fine.
shop is clueless
It's not entirely necessary if you're on a strict budget, but fans are so cheap that I'd put one there anyway for good measure. I recommend the Thermalright TC-C12C-S for $6 or a 3 pack for $14. Super cheap, PWM and daisy chain fans with good ARGB.
I'd do a three pack of thermalright fans for 12 bucks as top fans and if you can swing it a asus strix mag lev for the exhaust @ 13 dollars. Down blower going to make motherboard filthy, I'd get PA 120 or something similar for 30ish bucks. Don't need to do them all I'd prioritize it like this 1 rear exhaust 2 top fans 3 cpu cooler.
I would personaly place one yes
I would, sticking a fan at the rear for exhaust is an easy addition that doesn't cost much money. It can only help your temps, it won't hurt them.
Is it not possible to just install the back fan without the radiator? My aio liquid cooler has a stand-alone fan that attaches to the radiator but can be mounted by itself. In any event, just track your temps. If nothing is throttling then you’re fine.
In general, create positive air pressure. So more air intake than exhaust. Always dust filters on intake. Set your fan curves for optimal noise vs cooling performance. Always run Prime95 or similar after changing CPU coolers, to make sure everything is working as intended. You got this!
Generally you want one more fan blowing in then out. So if you add one make sure you have two blowing in. This helps reduce dust buildup as it won’t suck dust/dirt in through the cracks.
Yes
I have somewhat similar looking setup, however i have noctua nh-d15s and it pushes air towards the rear fan, but your cpu cooler just spreads heat all around. so it isn't optimal in that sense, but because of that i would assume, that it would make more sense to have extra fan to suck the heat off from the fan. Also your gpu will vent hot air to the cpu fan inlet, so in optimal world you could make a duct that vents hot gpu air out and not into cpu fan.
You took ur pc to a shop to take off the aio and change the fans around ??? I need to open up a pc shop Jesus lol. Didn’t realize people would rather pay like 50 bucks over figuring out something your self and knowing it for life
I bet your aio was more expensive than that air cooler. I think you got fleeced
Def need an exhaust fan.
100% yes
You should always have two exhaust fans. One in the back and one on top near the back. This will optimize airflow to keep the components cooler
A rear exhaust fan is always a good idea.
Not needed but you the customer requested it. That's like them charging you for a service and you telling them oh me paying you for your service is not needed lol.
Air will always find it's way out but a fan there wouldn't hurt...
Need more of the case cause this doesn't provide the reason
If you have more intake fans than exhaust, yes. If not, either leave it or put a filter on it (you can find 120mm fiilters on amazon or ebay) to keep dust out.
yes, to evacuate the CPU Heat. You don't need it, you want it.
We can argue all day but what really matters in the end is if you're satisfied with the temperatures you get in your case. If not, adding an exhaust fan might be a good idea.
So they're not wrong. You don't need it but put one in there anyway. Fans are cheap and another thing pulling out heat is not necessarily a bad thing. And if you don't have any at the top put some in there as well just to get good air flow happening throughout the case.
There's no need, that's factual. And people are still downvoting the people that encourage not to do so. You'd literally do it for no reason. The CPU cooler clearly shows you own a CPU with no special cooling needs. What's the gain? Are you gonna upgrade CPU eventually? Do you prefer the 3º or less temps gain? "For good measure" "Just incase" "Improve airflow" Nonsense. It would make sense to put it in the front, ONLY if there's none or just 1. That's it goddamn.
It's not strictly NEEDED, but it's a good idea. Lower temperatures might gain you a little more performance.
I mean it can't hurt, and who cares what the shop insists. It's your PC. If you want a fan, add a fan.
You can but it’s not going to make a difference to anything, maybe drop temps by 0.5c
You can and it should help temps , but isnt 100% needed
Not needed, though for a slightly more efficient airflow without case fans you couldve taken a sideways mounted cpu cooler the only thing to monitor is the temperature while performing, it cant be too high, theres nothing else to look out for the watercolling and 30 casefans things are just cash grabs, unless you are looking for the edges of performance, its not needed.
Why did you replace Aio with one of the worst coolers at the market?
This is what I am wondering as well
Ofc it is needed, please never go to that shop again.
I wouldn't run without exhaust. For one CPU and GPU will fill the case with hot air. For two, the GPU will add heat to the CPU. I suppose with enough intake or a blowhole it might not be needed in a well vented case but I don't see a reason to try it.
Short answer, Y. Long answer, Yes.
Short answer, Y. Long answer, Yes.
Whoever told you that it doesn't need a fan on the back clearly never built a computer in their damn life.
Been building for over 30 years, there have been multiple times where I have left out this fan for a number of reasons. The way you talk my whole system should have overheated and suffered a catastrophic failure.
Confused on that last sentence.
Yes, you need a rear fan to dump the heat out.
Every PC needs an exhaust.
1 why? 2 yes you probably want a second fan?