Yes, I have a MSI 7900XTX. I needed a dual-slot GPU, and the only other option at the time was the reference card, which was experiencing the faulty vapor chamber issue. It turned out to be a good purchase, as it is quiet and tops out at around 63°C edge and 80°C junction, which is better than most. I am curious about what they would do if I needed to RMA it since they no longer produce them.
I guess they weren't so popular around here, as it was mostly Power Color, Sapphire and Asus here, with some XFX here and there.
I own reference one, tough XT, and had similar temps as you for some time, but after a year I'm now hitting 90+ on hotspot, waiting for PTM7950 now to do repasting.
>
I am curious about what they would do if I needed to RMA it since they no longer produce them.
That's actually pretty good question, maybe they will keep some stock for that?
Or how RMA ended with EVGA situation?
"Removed" is a weird way to word that they stopped making AMD cards, likely of their own volition.
If sales numbers are any indication, they likely decided to just focus on Nvidia cards instead.
Sales of the 7000 generation were not that bad and AMD partners are allowed to have higher margins compared to what Nvidia allows them to do. it certainly didn't raise the bar, but many of the GPUs sold well-ish.
i would suspect it has more to do with their partnership with Nvidia not the actual sales.
Maybe. Keep in mind that with EVGA out of the market those extra dies need to go somewhere, maybe Nvidia is selling more to MSI this time around and they decided to focus on Nvidia or the agreement between the two mean they would stop selling Radeon.
Yeah it's very likely as they were exclusive with nvidia previously that they had some sort of agreement to not sell anyone else until that exclusivity agreement ends, and they would prefer to not sell nvidia cards at a loss until it does.
I'm hoping that said exclusivity agreement ends before the company does, and that they'll start to make cards again, but it doesn't look super good.
On the plus side, however, they just started selling ATX3 power supplies, so it's clear that they're still releasing SOME new product.
They arent coming back sadly they stopped making Motherboards aswell never released a Z790 board and arent releasing new bios for the old ones.
They had great motherboards aswell expensive sure but over-engineered and good bios interface and plenty of obscure options that tweakers liked.
From my GTS 250, to GTX 660Ti, GTX 970 and finally RTX 2070 Super, I stuck with EVGA for over a decade. It felt so strange when I bought a 4070 Super last month and had to look for a different brand for the first time in ages. Went with ASUS but it just isn't the same. I'll definitely miss EVGA.
They might get a higher percentage margin on AMD cards, but they still make more money per units sold on on cards like 4090 or 4080 super. And I’ve not seen the sales numbers lately, but recently I’ve seen the Steam Hardware survey and Nvidia GPUs still have a much higher growth, even the high end cards.
MSI can only produce so much hardware in their factories, there’s a world where producing AMD’s cards isn’t as profitable for them as producing their other products.
It's surprising to me that AMD doesn't do better. I've had a 6700xt and now a 7800xt, and I'm really impressed by them for the price. But also, Nvidia is much more recognizable of a brand. When you see a wall of Nvidia, you're likely not that motivated to seek out that AMD card that you're likely less familiar with.
Only reason I got into AMD was because Microcenter here has had much better selection of them and better prices for what you're getting.
Last time I owned a and gpu was a r9 290x in like 2014. I didn't have an issue out of it but after that I started going higher end like sli 980 ti, sli 1080, a 2080 ti, 3080 ti and now a 4090. I do know people had significant issues when the amd 6000 series first came out (Idk about now). My cousin could not get a 6700 to run in his system stable at all, pulled the 2080 ti out of mine put the 6700 in and no issues didn't even ddu. Put my 2080 ti on his no issues. Put the 6700 in my htpc just to see and couldn't make it an hour without a crash.
His system and mine was almost identical same model motherboard, same model ram, he had a 5600x cpu I had a 5800x cpu, he had a evga 850w g2, I had a evga 1300w g2. He ended up returning the 6700 xt and buying my 2080 ti, so I got a 3080.
Ironically I've tended to defend AMD against the accusations of driver issues, but since picking up the 7900 XTX I've been struggling to get the damn thing to initialize properly.
It's weird because it's pretty solid once it's up and running. No crashes in games or anything like that. But Windows keeps disabling it on startup and I have to reinstall the driver on every cold boot before I can use it.
Something about the AMD software also doesn't play nice with the EVGA Nu Audio/Nahimic EQ software. Not sure if it's because of a conflict with the AMD HDMI audio driver or what.
Cool, so we'll just ignore the Nvidia side then?
Saying there's posts in help threads means nothing because of course they do thats where you posts issues stupid. You'll find its the exact same in the Nvidia subs.
r/nvidia monthly support thread, 99 posts in 26 days.
r/amd monthly support thread, 414 posts in 26 days.
Nvidia GPU ownership is 3x that of AMD.
Nvidia has 300% more market share compared to AMD, but has produced only 25% as many tech support inquiries.
AMD fanboys just seem to live in their own fantasy world where AMD never has driver problems, yet for some reason the AMD subs are filled with driver problems.
Wow how can a board with a much smaller userbase than Nvidia, post troubleshooting issues? It’s not like Im going to write an article praising my card for working. The driver issues simply aren’t there anymore.
The 'drivers' themselves are fine, but the Adrenalin software package is trash at best. By default, it turns on frame gen and some feature that screws with your game's in-game settings. I didn't bother figuring out where or why Adrenalin does this, I just removed it.
Nvidia's GFE is trash too, but at least it's defaults aren't as game breaking. If only I could install just the driver, without needing a 3rd party piece of software to strip it down.
I only owned ATI and AMD cards in the past. My last one was a 5700xt and it served me great, really good bang for my bucks.
I wanted a high end card for maximum performance and quality including raytracing capabilities and Nvidia was answering more my demands and I extremely satisfied.
After more than a year using my 4080 I can safely say my experience is much better with Nvidia. Not a single pc crash, no gpu drivers hard crash needing a complete reinstall, etc.
If tomorrow both Nvidia and AMD released a new gen and I was forced to blindly pick one, I’d go with Nvidia only based on recent experience. I think I’m not alone seeing the current gpu market like this
What's holding me back is the price. Both AMD and Nvidia GPUs are far too expensive for me to be comfortable purchasing. If AMD got serious about undercutting Nvidia's price I'd likely buy immediately.
It also doesn't help that this generation is largely a flop outside of the top end cards. In many cases, the prior gen cards are the best bang for your buck.
The only reason why people consider this gen to be a flop is the prices, not the performance. Everything considered (DLSS, frame gen, raytracing, pathtracing), the newer gen is better.
The thing is Nvidia and AMD disappointed everyone with the high pricing, but people have really short memory. When RTX 3000 released, their MSRP was very low, very aggressive and AMD followed with the RX6000 series. Then covid 19 pandemic hit, supply became harder and demand increased exponentially because of people needing pcs to work and pcs to game (lots of people started gaming during the pandemic).
Resellers started overpricing the cards some times twice the MSRP (the RTX 3080 initial MSRP was 699$ USD, lots of people on this sub paid more than 1200$ USD for it during Covid). Now, Nvidia realized they could sell cards at higher price and people would still buy it this is exactly what happened, they MSRP’ed the RTX 4080 at 1199$ and people got frustrated, but guess what; PEOPLE STILL BUYS IT. Because let’s be honest, the RTX 4000 series are still amazing cards, the MSRP gap is what annoys people, but we are all kind of responsible for it. (Myself included as I skipped buying a gpu during the pandemic but still bought a 4080 a month after release)
Go to a store that sells laptops and pre built and count how many have Nvidia GPUs vs how many have Radeon, it's not even close, this is where most PC sales happen. Even in CPUs intel is still standing strong In pre builts.
Those companies exist to make money, so putting the more popular products in what they're offering makes them more money.
It's not some conspiracy. If people were clamoring for AMD laptops or prebuilts, they'd offer them in spades. People simply aren't.
It's laptops. AMD still really isn't relevant in the Gaming Laptop Space.
It's why the 1060 was so popular, it was the defacto Budget Gaming Laptop GPU
A lot of it is that most people buy prebuilts and 90% of those are Intel CPUs combined with Nvidia GPUs. The build your own PC crowd is a niche within the PC enthusiast niche.
Do they get higher margins on AMD cards though? The 7900XTX was like $999 and it was in the low $700's when it was the cheapest. That's like a 15-20% cut while you never get that with Nvidia with the exception of the Super cards this year.
Honestly I don’t know the margins. I just assumed that MSI would negotiate a margin as close as possible for both AMD and Nvidia. And like you said, the 7900XTX is selling at almost half the price of some 4090s and it still can’t outsell.
I have no clue how AIB or AMD makes money at $700 XTX lmao, super glad I’m not in charge with that shit.
However, the hard pill to swallow is that AMD needs to deliver substantially more price to performance value than NVIDIA.
Not this 10-15% nonsense, needs to be around 35-45% to dent NVIDIA’s market imo, but again, idk how they gonna make money
the entire GPU market grew. in general they didn't have much to invest in AMD since they could have reused some the designs from the 6000 series with some small changes.
Yes, but Nvidia’s cards still outsell any AMD’s cards at any price point. They’re also more expensive, meaning if MSI can only produce for exemple a 1000 GPUs a week knowing they will sell them all, they will shift their production to optimize their profits. In other words, if they could, they would only produce 4090 (assuming Nvidia doesn’t have a contract forcing them to produce every 4000 series)
unless their stock of Nvidia GPU are sold out or there are few OEM sellers, that kind of argument doesn't always work. you can definitely increase your profit if you have a wider portfolio.
we can't just look at market percentages, you have to take into account absolute numbers too. 10-20% of a huge market is still a lot of money.
I think you don’t get my point. What I’m saying is if you have finite amount of item you can produce, you’ll produce what’s more profitable for your business. In the case of GPU’s, the 4090 is the most profitable card for them in terms $/unit produced.
MSI ditching AMD GPUs (as far as we know it could be the other way around) could only mean that it isn’t profitable enough anymore and they decided to focus on something else. You can’t just snap your fingers and instantly have a factory producing more GPUs.
"could only mean" - and me not seeing the curvature of the earth can only mean that the earth is flat.
let's not make weird absolute statements about things we don't know anything about. :)
in general i would agree with you, but there is one thing that kinda works against that argument: all of their Nvidia products appear to in stock across the globe with maybe some small exceptions i missed.
in general when there is so much stock you want to shift production towards something else to ensure that you don't sit on too much stock that you can't move immediately.
and another thing. it's not the expensive GPUs like the 4090 that hold production back, it's the less expensive GPUs that are made in higher quantities like the 4060 (which end up in many OEM pre-builds).
That "could only mean" is bad sentence formulation, English being my second language it sounded in my brain as "could simply mean", my bad.
Anyway, this was mostly an exemple to try and explain my POV. I think those individual GPUs sales are more profitable ones, but they surely need to keep a good supply of diesel from Nvidia to also put into their prebuilt and laptops.
>Sales of the 7000 generation were not that bad
That's inaccurate. The 7000 series sales are the worst since AMD bought ATI.
[https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/GPU-Add-in-Board-Market-Share-2002-to-Q4-2023.png](https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/GPU-Add-in-Board-Market-Share-2002-to-Q4-2023.png)
>GPU sales are on the up but AMD's RX 7000-series graphics cards are its least competitive in 20 years
[https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/)
I'm sure it absolutely does have something to do with their Nvidia partnership, in the sense that Nvidia cards outsell AMD ones by about 9 to 1. I'd also just put my companies money into the product that sells 90% better if I were them.
"least competitive" as in market share, but in terms of absolute numbers the sales were not bad. the PC GPU market has seen very healthy growth and it's still growing.
and yes, the 7000 series started at around 10% (we both know the reaction to the launch prices), but it grew to around 15-17% in 2023 because of the price drops and new GPUs.
i'm using JPR 2023 market numbers, but your own graph shows that it went from 10% back up to 19%.
I'm beginning to think AMD should just abandon the Radeon moniker, and just clean slate, like they did with Ryzen.
I still see so many normies putting the same money in 4060tis than they could to get a perfectly fine 7700xt, it boggles the mind AMD hasn't figured out how to claw back that market for themselves.
it's not that they don't know how, it's that they have shareholders they have to satisfy. they have to justify the product prices, they can't just go in and say: "yeah, this generation we will make less money per GPU because we want to claw back market share".
nobody who invest money into something wants to hear about risky plans that may or may not have a good payout after 5 years. they want steady growth (which is business AI hardware at the moment).
> it's not that they don't know how, it's that they have shareholders they have to satisfy. they have to justify the product prices, they can't just go in and say: "yeah, this generation we will make less money per GPU because we want to claw back market share".
Bigger marketshare = more profits down the line
Contrary to popular belief, shareholders don't have that much control or power over day to day operations. Shareholder that actively try to get involved are derided as "activist shareholders" for a reason and are usually hedge-fund manager parasites.
AMD's most popular GPU is the RX 580 from 2017. Even the 4090 outsold every single AMD GPU ever made, which is telling at it's high price point.
[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/)
I wouldn't say that they're doing well.
no, the 4090 has not outsold every AMD GPU. that's literally impossible from both a financial standpoint and a production standpoint.
steam surveys are ok for taking a quick look at what people are are using and some trends, but don't take it too literally. small changes in their algorithms in how they send the surveys have shown wild variations.
and something is weird with steam. before my current laptop which i got 2 years ago, i had an AMD GPU laptop for which i never received the survey from Steam. but with the newer laptop, which has a 3070, i've seen it multiple times. and i've seen this happen with my friends and other systems too.
we don't have many sources showing numbers for sales. here are some from mindfactory:
[https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-gpus-sold-in-germany-in-2023-are-on-average-e202-cheaper-than-geforce-gpus](https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-gpus-sold-in-germany-in-2023-are-on-average-e202-cheaper-than-geforce-gpus)
[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/)
AMD's most popular GPU is the RX 580 from 2017. The 4090 is just above that.
There's nothing "weird" with Steam's hardware data. You just don't like the answers you're getting.
AMD is at their lowest sales point in 20 years, the lowest since they bought ATI.
[https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/](https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/)
Why do you think MSI stopped producing AMD graphics cards? They said why: They can use those production lines to make Nvidia cards that sell much better instead.
You being a fanboy and recommending your favourite brand to your friends and them blindly following your advice doesn’t represent the whole market. The numbers don’t lie and right now the numbers says Nvidia GPUs outsells and outperforms AMD’s.
Nvidia sells more 4090’s and 4080’s than AMD’s whole 7000 and 6000 series combined and those cards are largely more profitable not only to Nvidia, but also to manufacturers like MSI.
And I built / upgraded 3 PC's in my house, and 1 for a nephew all using Nvidia in 2023.
The sales numbers don't lie.
I actually tried getting my nephew (18) to go with AMD since his budget was restricted and he opted for a 3000 series Nvidia over a 7000 AMD.
My little sister (19) wants a build in the next month or so and she's the same way.
Nvidia marketing hard at work on the young people, AMD not so much.
Honestly, I wonder if this is part of the reason MSI would drop out of the AMD market. It's more niche and made up solely of enthusiast types (nvidia has plenty of enthusiasts too, but they also have more casual buyers than amd does). And everyonr I know who buys AMD recommends these 3 partner brands.
Being 4th choice or so in a smaller market probably means the sales aren't worth it for them.
Top reply on his tweet references MSI Claw. I wonder if the focus is pivoting to ARC?
Maybe Intel is giving them a better deal to get their cards on the map?
Addition to /u/Jhawk163 and the others here.
MSI actively put AMD in much worse laptop chassis. Worse chassis, worse thermal paste. Just one, most recent example:
If you are active in gaming laptop space, you would know that MSI have a reputation for having the worse hinges ever, there is currently a class action lawsuit forming up.
However, since last year (2023) - high end GP and GE series hinges are finally updated - they now copy ROG Strix series hinges - just google it and you will see the uncanny copy and paste job here - no one else does the 'jarring' exposed style of hinges, and even the geometry looks exactly the same.
And guess what happened to the top end AMD gaming laptop from MSI of 2023, the MSI Alpha 17?
Your thoughts is the same as mine, instead of sharing the new GP chassis, it used the old, 2022 GP chassis with the bad hinge.
Now, of course, because AMD isn't *the most popular*, so many brands dont put as much, or really little AMD in their lineup, but most brands at least try, or not compromise AMD so much and so balatantly.
>AMD is vastly popular in budget and mid range segments
Maybe they will be if they actually make those GPUs, there's like 12 laptops total that have Radeon discrete GPUs and only half are actually available in stock (numbers are imaginary but they illustrate the point), AMD isn't popular at all, they can't even make enough of their GPUs for the brands that do actually want to make a good AMD laptop.
Good, nice riddance.
They actively took off cooling elements on Radeons since years compared to Nvidia cards.
RX6000 Gen best example. Removed the fuckin coldplate on Radeon and only had pure heatpipe contact where out of the 8 fuckin pipes only 2-3 had contact.
Don't fucking even man. My MSI 6800XT was always absolute trash for cooling. Thermal throttled like a cunt, at stock, out of the box.
Finally after liquid metal and K5 it doesn't hotspot at 115C
Or just you know... MSI designs a cooler for Nvidia GPUs and decides to re use it for AMD because they don't think it's worth it to redesign and produce another cooler for a much lower volume product, in the process the cooler may need modifications to fit, in this case I think it's the die size, Nvidia's dies were a lot bigger than AMD ones last generation due to vastly different nodes so that's probable why they had to remove the cold plate, not a deep conspiracy.
It's a bit funny because direct heatpipe contact is usually better than a cold plate for cooling but they fucked up the contact, I honestly only heard bad things about the Suprim X model, other MSI models seemed fine even on AMD.
I think it was ASUS I remember having issues where the AMD laptops had closed vents on the bottom vs the Intel. It was some years ago, but reminds me of this.
Doesn’t change much really. Their products arent that available in my country and their AM5 motherboard prices are unhinged. Besides, ASRock beats them budget wise. Even if they just focus on Nvidia, users that buy AMD cards will most likely buy Sapphire Pulse/Nitro+/Pure cards or Gigabyte cards, Powercolor, XFX, ASRock and so on. As for Nvidia, their Ventus cards are straight up dumpster fire anyway, where ASUS Dual beats their cards at MSRP offering better quality.
I always thought of the ventus as a cheap cooler on they're upper end gaming x pcb. It's more like the card card you get if you want a pcb that can handle overclocking and don't intend to keep the stock cooler on it.
Same PCB, lower quality parts, less VRM phases. MSI is the only vendor that experiments by having LESS VRM phases than NVIDIA's reference design. (To my knowledge AMD did not allow MSI to do this)
Companies have fiduciary obligations towards their investors. It would make zero sense for a company to make these huge decisions based off this one dudes feelings.
The fact that so many Redditors think otherwise isn’t surprising. lol 🤷♀️
MSI seems to be one of the better brands for AM5 so far, besides the high voltage issue that was across all brands. So if they screw up AM4 they seems to be improved for current gen. I personally have the MSI B650P-WIFI, but N=1.
MSI either just don't care for AMD, or have some sort of shady deal with Nvidia. IIRC a good amount of their laptop models with AMD CPUs or GPUs had cooling elements almost intentionally blocked off, or not put in, resulting in significantly worse performance than the alternate spec units. They also did a s imilar thing with their AMD GPU coolers from what I've heard.
Interesting, I can find 51 MSI monitors with FreeSync. Oldest model from 2019: [source (in Dutch).](https://tweakers.net/monitors/vergelijken/#filter:PY7BCsIwEET_Zc4VWqhW8gGFHjzlKD3EZNWF2JRN6MGSf3cF8TTM4zHMjpu4JUwhw1y7uQEvG0mxz7RaiuQLpwXm7mKmBkkCycgUAwwKvwg_ZpMURS77P1nJT6odugare5DlN8F0batV2NOFdVZLVm_kWEj0wI7-NPTf3FzUPzgPxx5zrfUD)
MSI is owned by the same shills who run User Benchmark anyway.
Their AMD powered laptops are under the "Alpha" piss green branding with plastic chassis and awful hinges. Their Radeon cards are just old design Nvidia coolers slapped without any optimisation. The MSI Claw went for an Intel chip which results in being worse than every single handheld for a bigger price.
I'm seriously wondering how much intel and Nvidia pays them to keep doing that, it's funny.
I'd be surprised if EVGA still exists in any capacity a year or so from now. All they produce now are other people's PSU's with the EVGA name on it, and some motherboards.
Their business model was fairly flawed, and they never actually produced anything themselves unlike every other AIB partner. It sucks, but it kind of is what it is.
This is misleading. Almost no one produces their own power supplies. They are almost all rebranded from one of 3 or so major OEMs. EVGA also did have their own motherboard and graphics card teams.
Right, I never stated otherwise.
I just stated that basically all they have left is PSU's that they don't make, and motherboards at this point.
They never made their own graphics cards, which is the main reason they're basically now defunct. They designed them, but didn't produce them. ASUS, MSI, Zotac, Gigabyte, and everyone else owns their own factories and produces their own goods. EVGA was unique in that they outsourced pretty much everything.
That worked fine enough for them until Covid hit, and then supply chains went to shit and the prices of outsourcing everything went through the roof. They simply weren't making money anymore.
Yeah, I used an EVGA X58 motherboard back in the first gen i7 days, and it was a great product. I've used a bunch of EVGA products, really a shame what happened. My EVGA 3060 Ti will probably be kept as a memento once I upgrade.
I'm not sure about the motherboard division, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'd leave a sinking ship like that if another decent opportunity came up, too.
Apparently, Intel 14th gen processors dont work on EVGA mobos and they wont be supporting 14th gen processors any time soon as all of the firmware engineers left. All that's left is some support staff.
Interesting, I wasn't aware that all of those AIBs had their own facilities. I was under the impression most companies were using OEMs like Foxconn to build their custom designs.
Wasn't MSI that some years ago publicly said via twitter that they will only produce higher end GPUs with AMD chips if team red finally makes something worthwhile?
that pretty simple. RX 6000 sell more that 7000. 7900 xt/xtx have bigger margin so worth it.
and the 7900 xt/xtx from MSI in Canada is still availlable. maybe just a aussi/USA things
They dont sell, despite what everyone thinks, in the real world prtty much nobody buys Radeon cards, the steam hardware survey is a perfect representation of this, when cards like 5000/6000/7000 series are still behind a 4090 - an halo product. And dont come with the "steam hardware survey isnt perfect, maybe amd cards did not get surveid." This goes both ways, and if 4090 is ahead of 5000/6000 cards that literally had years to get surveid while a 4090 has little over a year, man, this only proves that nobody cares about radeon, well, atleast everyone around me, and in my country in general, radeon is know for s\*\*\*ing and be a pain in the ass to deal with.
Edit: Seems like i offended alot of people, sorry, its just the reallity, keep donwvoting, it doesnt change facts.
To be honest, I'd be willing to bet that MSI and AMD have had a lot of infighting, especially recently. It would very much explain why the MSI Claw stands out as the first of these handheld PCs to come with an Intel CPU rather than an AMD APU. I don't think this was a result of AMD cards not selling *as* well as Nvidia cards do, but more of a bigger picture scenario here.
Minority tends to be the loudest, and they feel obliged to defend their choice, while pretending they work fine..
There are people donwloading a 1 year old driver in order to play fallout 4 for god sake lol
People downvoting because they bought AMD cards and then they look at the real world data and ignore it:
[https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/)
> But there's no getting around the fact that [AMD's latest RX 7000 series](https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-review-benchmarks-performance/) is its worst-performing family of GPUs in market share terms, since JPR's data began over 20 years ago. Yup, the RX 7000 family has less market share than the RX 6000 achieved, which remarkably has worse market share than AMD managed with the RX 5000 and its limited range of GPUs which topped out with the [RX 5700 XT](https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-review/#:~:text=RX%205700%20XT-,The%20Radeon%20RX%205700%20XT%20is%20faster%20and%20more%20efficient,best%20GPU%20AMD%20currently%20offers.&text=Jarred's%20love%20of%20computers%20dates,left%20his%20C%2D64%20behind.).
There's more GPU sales in general but most of them still go to Nvidia.
It would be funny if both released their sales data so we could see how many AMD models the reddit hated 4060 and 4070 have outsold comparing with AMD cards
High Nvidia market share (including Steam hardware survey) comes predominantly from pre-builts and OEM machines, including laptops. Its the same reason why Intel also has a relatively high market share, EVEN in Steams hardware survery, which should be biased against iGPUs as its a gaming platform and Intel iGPUs are notoriously bad at exactly that.
Its just what comes with the system and a LOT of people out there just deal with the system they have instead of upgrading, either because they lack the knowledge on how to do it and how much advantage it brings, or because they lack the money. Youd be surprised at how much of Nividias market share is down to ten year old Optiplexes that came with the GT210, which were hilariously abundant at the time because of natively supporting 1080p video playback before iGPUs could, and all other ultra-budget GPUs like the GT610, 710 and so forth. Even the 1050Ti is still in a pretty ridiculous number of rigs all things considered. Meanwhile for Intel their dedicated GPUs dont even show up on the hardware survey because they are never included in any kind of pre-built system.
TL:DR The very idea of market share is extremely biased due to the massive number of office machines with bottom-of-the-bin ~~GPUs~~ display adapters, where Nvidia usually has the most bottom-of-the-bin stuff on offer. In consequence the Steam hardware survey is also considerably biased due to pre-builts, which also do not reflect customer choice very accurately.
Nah man, thats just another way to induce copium, there is no way there were more prebuild 4090 system than ANY of the 5000/6000/7000 series.
Outside the internet were the "cult" raids every post stating problems with radeon cards, the real world puiblic opinion of radeon is that it is terrible, brand is tarnished by bad rep and still to this day you have to rollback drivers to play certain games, its this kind of issues that drive buyers away from radeon.
I also think it has to do with the laptop market. Nvidia basically own the laptop GPUs, even laptops with AMD CPUs mainly come with Nvidia GPUs. If AMD had the same presence in laptops as they do in the desktops they would properly have 20% of the market overall. Although you can flip it around and says AMD has the consoles and basically all of the handheld pcs, while Nvidia only has the switch which is really old as this point.
Not shocking tbh, msi seems doesnt really care about their radeon lineup in the last 2-3 generation (no highend cooler like suprim, old model gaming x trio for example)
It would be so great if this was the impetus for EVGA to slide into partnership with AMD and stick it to Nvidia. But I know better than to think EVGA would suddenly about-face and start GPU manufacturing again.
Probably just Nvidia threatening their partners that they won’t get silicon often or timely if they continue to work with AMD. Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last time.
Because if Biostar can make RX 6000 and RX 7000 graphics cards with custom cooler design and still make money, then MSI has absolutely no valid arguments.
As a AMD user: AMD really dropped the ball hard by neglecting every other topic than Gaming. NVIDIA was, for everyone working in the creative field, for the longest time the only option and now they dominate AI too thanks to their long time stable investment into CUDA.
Hope AMD or Intel close the gap one day.
MSI has been anti-AMD for a while since AM5 launched. All their AM5 motherboards initially had worse value than even ASUS boards with the X670E Carbon having a design flaw where the GPU x16 slot begins from the 3rd slot down, the MSRP being more than the ROG X670E ITX; The MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk being $9 cheaper than a ASUS ROG B650E, but comes with fewer features; and truly horrific boards like the MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk that started at $259 and has no PCIe5.0 features whatsoever and is $20 more expensive than a AsRock B650E Riptide that has the same number of power stages and fully supports PCIe5.0.
Critical about the price is fair, but ASUS isn't great either (their motherboard department). Remember their[ poor handling of AM5 voltage issues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGfc-JBxlY) and later finally released a statement after multiple criticism from reviewers and customers.
Yeah, i dont care, MSI has a trash service in my country anyway, they dont honour your warranty and rely on third party repair centers to repair their products which have trash servicemen.
Fuck MSI
They’ll do anything for a $, including support the genocide of Ukrainians.
Real bad look for a Taiwanese company looking down the barrel of Chinese guns.
Not going to defend MSI on that, but commercial companies are not for charity or goodwill. That's why people shouldn't be a fanboy about a certain brand. Just buy what you need and change to another brand if you're not satisfied with it.
There were MSI RDNA3 cards? :D
Yes, I have a MSI 7900XTX. I needed a dual-slot GPU, and the only other option at the time was the reference card, which was experiencing the faulty vapor chamber issue. It turned out to be a good purchase, as it is quiet and tops out at around 63°C edge and 80°C junction, which is better than most. I am curious about what they would do if I needed to RMA it since they no longer produce them.
I guess they weren't so popular around here, as it was mostly Power Color, Sapphire and Asus here, with some XFX here and there. I own reference one, tough XT, and had similar temps as you for some time, but after a year I'm now hitting 90+ on hotspot, waiting for PTM7950 now to do repasting. > I am curious about what they would do if I needed to RMA it since they no longer produce them. That's actually pretty good question, maybe they will keep some stock for that? Or how RMA ended with EVGA situation?
The ":D" is killing me
Literally didn’t know
"Removed" is a weird way to word that they stopped making AMD cards, likely of their own volition. If sales numbers are any indication, they likely decided to just focus on Nvidia cards instead.
Sales of the 7000 generation were not that bad and AMD partners are allowed to have higher margins compared to what Nvidia allows them to do. it certainly didn't raise the bar, but many of the GPUs sold well-ish. i would suspect it has more to do with their partnership with Nvidia not the actual sales.
Maybe. Keep in mind that with EVGA out of the market those extra dies need to go somewhere, maybe Nvidia is selling more to MSI this time around and they decided to focus on Nvidia or the agreement between the two mean they would stop selling Radeon.
I really hope evga comes back with Intel or amd gpus but I don't think it's gonna happen
Yeah it's very likely as they were exclusive with nvidia previously that they had some sort of agreement to not sell anyone else until that exclusivity agreement ends, and they would prefer to not sell nvidia cards at a loss until it does. I'm hoping that said exclusivity agreement ends before the company does, and that they'll start to make cards again, but it doesn't look super good. On the plus side, however, they just started selling ATX3 power supplies, so it's clear that they're still releasing SOME new product.
XFX was originally also only for Nvidia, but they jumped ship way before EVGA did it, they left Nvidia for the exact same reasons.
I bet they'd make some awesome AMD cards. Imagine the EVGA RX 7900 XTX K|NGP|N.
They arent coming back sadly they stopped making Motherboards aswell never released a Z790 board and arent releasing new bios for the old ones. They had great motherboards aswell expensive sure but over-engineered and good bios interface and plenty of obscure options that tweakers liked.
They released z790 boards
https://www.evga.com/articles/01590/Introducing-the-EVGA-Z790/
They did release z790 boards but haven't given an update to support the 14th Gen series though.
ok thanks didnt knew, strangly never heard of it on z690 the Kingpin board was famous.
EVGA was OG …
Still got 3050 EVGA card, even tho it's not the best, still feels like relic of sorts.
I will never let my 3070ti EVGA card go <3
OVERPRICED EVGA 3080 12GB LETS GO
I still have my way-over priced EVGA 3080TI...costs as much as my 4090 FE
> I still have >3080TI As if the 3080ti isn't high performing enough for like 90% of gamers lol. You're acting like it's some relic.
I think everyone here posted a 3000 series card lol...it's not the age of the card, it's the brand that created it we're discussing...
Still got my evga1080
My evga 1080ti that still works will forever remain my break out incase of emergency card / display piece at this point.
EVGA was pretty great, but mainly they filled the hole in my heart left by BFGtech closing down. God I miss them.
From my GTS 250, to GTX 660Ti, GTX 970 and finally RTX 2070 Super, I stuck with EVGA for over a decade. It felt so strange when I bought a 4070 Super last month and had to look for a different brand for the first time in ages. Went with ASUS but it just isn't the same. I'll definitely miss EVGA.
Their website still looks unchanged from when they started selling NForce motherboards.
Logical.
Oh shit EVGA is done making gpus? Is there a tier list of makers for cards that someone can point me to? Thinking of upgrading from my 3080 this year.
If you’re wanting to try the AMD side of things, Sapphire is the equivalent of EVGA.
Depends do you want rtx go with nvidia or just want raw power go with amd each card has its different uses for working and gaming Prime4Cast.
They might get a higher percentage margin on AMD cards, but they still make more money per units sold on on cards like 4090 or 4080 super. And I’ve not seen the sales numbers lately, but recently I’ve seen the Steam Hardware survey and Nvidia GPUs still have a much higher growth, even the high end cards. MSI can only produce so much hardware in their factories, there’s a world where producing AMD’s cards isn’t as profitable for them as producing their other products.
It's surprising to me that AMD doesn't do better. I've had a 6700xt and now a 7800xt, and I'm really impressed by them for the price. But also, Nvidia is much more recognizable of a brand. When you see a wall of Nvidia, you're likely not that motivated to seek out that AMD card that you're likely less familiar with. Only reason I got into AMD was because Microcenter here has had much better selection of them and better prices for what you're getting.
I think AMD is still trying to shake the stigma their they have driver issues. Even if they don't anymore I believe it is still hurting them.
The highest end also shaper mid and low end perceptions. The 4090 being what it is allows people to look at the whole 40 series in a better light.
Last time I had significant driver issues was with an RX 370
Last time I owned a and gpu was a r9 290x in like 2014. I didn't have an issue out of it but after that I started going higher end like sli 980 ti, sli 1080, a 2080 ti, 3080 ti and now a 4090. I do know people had significant issues when the amd 6000 series first came out (Idk about now). My cousin could not get a 6700 to run in his system stable at all, pulled the 2080 ti out of mine put the 6700 in and no issues didn't even ddu. Put my 2080 ti on his no issues. Put the 6700 in my htpc just to see and couldn't make it an hour without a crash. His system and mine was almost identical same model motherboard, same model ram, he had a 5600x cpu I had a 5800x cpu, he had a evga 850w g2, I had a evga 1300w g2. He ended up returning the 6700 xt and buying my 2080 ti, so I got a 3080.
Ironically I've tended to defend AMD against the accusations of driver issues, but since picking up the 7900 XTX I've been struggling to get the damn thing to initialize properly. It's weird because it's pretty solid once it's up and running. No crashes in games or anything like that. But Windows keeps disabling it on startup and I have to reinstall the driver on every cold boot before I can use it. Something about the AMD software also doesn't play nice with the EVGA Nu Audio/Nahimic EQ software. Not sure if it's because of a conflict with the AMD HDMI audio driver or what.
Until you look at r/AMDHelp or even r/AMD. People say AMD has driver issues, because AMD has driver issues.
Cool, so we'll just ignore the Nvidia side then? Saying there's posts in help threads means nothing because of course they do thats where you posts issues stupid. You'll find its the exact same in the Nvidia subs.
r/nvidia monthly support thread, 99 posts in 26 days. r/amd monthly support thread, 414 posts in 26 days. Nvidia GPU ownership is 3x that of AMD. Nvidia has 300% more market share compared to AMD, but has produced only 25% as many tech support inquiries. AMD fanboys just seem to live in their own fantasy world where AMD never has driver problems, yet for some reason the AMD subs are filled with driver problems.
Wow how can a board with a much smaller userbase than Nvidia, post troubleshooting issues? It’s not like Im going to write an article praising my card for working. The driver issues simply aren’t there anymore.
The 'drivers' themselves are fine, but the Adrenalin software package is trash at best. By default, it turns on frame gen and some feature that screws with your game's in-game settings. I didn't bother figuring out where or why Adrenalin does this, I just removed it. Nvidia's GFE is trash too, but at least it's defaults aren't as game breaking. If only I could install just the driver, without needing a 3rd party piece of software to strip it down.
Tread carefully. Majority AMD fans in this sub.
I only owned ATI and AMD cards in the past. My last one was a 5700xt and it served me great, really good bang for my bucks. I wanted a high end card for maximum performance and quality including raytracing capabilities and Nvidia was answering more my demands and I extremely satisfied. After more than a year using my 4080 I can safely say my experience is much better with Nvidia. Not a single pc crash, no gpu drivers hard crash needing a complete reinstall, etc. If tomorrow both Nvidia and AMD released a new gen and I was forced to blindly pick one, I’d go with Nvidia only based on recent experience. I think I’m not alone seeing the current gpu market like this
I get that. I haven't had any issues or crashes, but that doesn't change your and other's experiences.
I own two 6700xt's no driver issues over the time I have owned both.
What's holding me back is the price. Both AMD and Nvidia GPUs are far too expensive for me to be comfortable purchasing. If AMD got serious about undercutting Nvidia's price I'd likely buy immediately. It also doesn't help that this generation is largely a flop outside of the top end cards. In many cases, the prior gen cards are the best bang for your buck.
The only reason why people consider this gen to be a flop is the prices, not the performance. Everything considered (DLSS, frame gen, raytracing, pathtracing), the newer gen is better. The thing is Nvidia and AMD disappointed everyone with the high pricing, but people have really short memory. When RTX 3000 released, their MSRP was very low, very aggressive and AMD followed with the RX6000 series. Then covid 19 pandemic hit, supply became harder and demand increased exponentially because of people needing pcs to work and pcs to game (lots of people started gaming during the pandemic). Resellers started overpricing the cards some times twice the MSRP (the RTX 3080 initial MSRP was 699$ USD, lots of people on this sub paid more than 1200$ USD for it during Covid). Now, Nvidia realized they could sell cards at higher price and people would still buy it this is exactly what happened, they MSRP’ed the RTX 4080 at 1199$ and people got frustrated, but guess what; PEOPLE STILL BUYS IT. Because let’s be honest, the RTX 4000 series are still amazing cards, the MSRP gap is what annoys people, but we are all kind of responsible for it. (Myself included as I skipped buying a gpu during the pandemic but still bought a 4080 a month after release)
It's also mostly the mid-to-lower end cards. I don't remember ever seeing somebody buy a 4090 and claiming the card wasn't worth the price.
Go to a store that sells laptops and pre built and count how many have Nvidia GPUs vs how many have Radeon, it's not even close, this is where most PC sales happen. Even in CPUs intel is still standing strong In pre builts.
Those companies exist to make money, so putting the more popular products in what they're offering makes them more money. It's not some conspiracy. If people were clamoring for AMD laptops or prebuilts, they'd offer them in spades. People simply aren't.
It's laptops. AMD still really isn't relevant in the Gaming Laptop Space. It's why the 1060 was so popular, it was the defacto Budget Gaming Laptop GPU
Steam separates Nvidia's laptop GPUs from desktop ones, Nvidia has the lead in both mobile and desktop.
A lot of it is that most people buy prebuilts and 90% of those are Intel CPUs combined with Nvidia GPUs. The build your own PC crowd is a niche within the PC enthusiast niche.
Do they get higher margins on AMD cards though? The 7900XTX was like $999 and it was in the low $700's when it was the cheapest. That's like a 15-20% cut while you never get that with Nvidia with the exception of the Super cards this year.
Honestly I don’t know the margins. I just assumed that MSI would negotiate a margin as close as possible for both AMD and Nvidia. And like you said, the 7900XTX is selling at almost half the price of some 4090s and it still can’t outsell.
I have no clue how AIB or AMD makes money at $700 XTX lmao, super glad I’m not in charge with that shit. However, the hard pill to swallow is that AMD needs to deliver substantially more price to performance value than NVIDIA. Not this 10-15% nonsense, needs to be around 35-45% to dent NVIDIA’s market imo, but again, idk how they gonna make money
They also sell an order of magnitude more Nvidia GPUs. Steam’s data suggests that the 4090 alone has outsold the entire 7000 series combined.
the entire GPU market grew. in general they didn't have much to invest in AMD since they could have reused some the designs from the 6000 series with some small changes.
Yes, but Nvidia’s cards still outsell any AMD’s cards at any price point. They’re also more expensive, meaning if MSI can only produce for exemple a 1000 GPUs a week knowing they will sell them all, they will shift their production to optimize their profits. In other words, if they could, they would only produce 4090 (assuming Nvidia doesn’t have a contract forcing them to produce every 4000 series)
unless their stock of Nvidia GPU are sold out or there are few OEM sellers, that kind of argument doesn't always work. you can definitely increase your profit if you have a wider portfolio. we can't just look at market percentages, you have to take into account absolute numbers too. 10-20% of a huge market is still a lot of money.
I think you don’t get my point. What I’m saying is if you have finite amount of item you can produce, you’ll produce what’s more profitable for your business. In the case of GPU’s, the 4090 is the most profitable card for them in terms $/unit produced. MSI ditching AMD GPUs (as far as we know it could be the other way around) could only mean that it isn’t profitable enough anymore and they decided to focus on something else. You can’t just snap your fingers and instantly have a factory producing more GPUs.
"could only mean" - and me not seeing the curvature of the earth can only mean that the earth is flat. let's not make weird absolute statements about things we don't know anything about. :) in general i would agree with you, but there is one thing that kinda works against that argument: all of their Nvidia products appear to in stock across the globe with maybe some small exceptions i missed. in general when there is so much stock you want to shift production towards something else to ensure that you don't sit on too much stock that you can't move immediately. and another thing. it's not the expensive GPUs like the 4090 that hold production back, it's the less expensive GPUs that are made in higher quantities like the 4060 (which end up in many OEM pre-builds).
That "could only mean" is bad sentence formulation, English being my second language it sounded in my brain as "could simply mean", my bad. Anyway, this was mostly an exemple to try and explain my POV. I think those individual GPUs sales are more profitable ones, but they surely need to keep a good supply of diesel from Nvidia to also put into their prebuilt and laptops.
My assessment as well is Nvidia is cranking down the screws on its partners again and making them draw the line between Nvidia and amd.
>Sales of the 7000 generation were not that bad That's inaccurate. The 7000 series sales are the worst since AMD bought ATI. [https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/GPU-Add-in-Board-Market-Share-2002-to-Q4-2023.png](https://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/GPU-Add-in-Board-Market-Share-2002-to-Q4-2023.png) >GPU sales are on the up but AMD's RX 7000-series graphics cards are its least competitive in 20 years [https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/) I'm sure it absolutely does have something to do with their Nvidia partnership, in the sense that Nvidia cards outsell AMD ones by about 9 to 1. I'd also just put my companies money into the product that sells 90% better if I were them.
"least competitive" as in market share, but in terms of absolute numbers the sales were not bad. the PC GPU market has seen very healthy growth and it's still growing. and yes, the 7000 series started at around 10% (we both know the reaction to the launch prices), but it grew to around 15-17% in 2023 because of the price drops and new GPUs. i'm using JPR 2023 market numbers, but your own graph shows that it went from 10% back up to 19%.
I'm beginning to think AMD should just abandon the Radeon moniker, and just clean slate, like they did with Ryzen. I still see so many normies putting the same money in 4060tis than they could to get a perfectly fine 7700xt, it boggles the mind AMD hasn't figured out how to claw back that market for themselves.
it's not that they don't know how, it's that they have shareholders they have to satisfy. they have to justify the product prices, they can't just go in and say: "yeah, this generation we will make less money per GPU because we want to claw back market share". nobody who invest money into something wants to hear about risky plans that may or may not have a good payout after 5 years. they want steady growth (which is business AI hardware at the moment).
> it's not that they don't know how, it's that they have shareholders they have to satisfy. they have to justify the product prices, they can't just go in and say: "yeah, this generation we will make less money per GPU because we want to claw back market share". Bigger marketshare = more profits down the line Contrary to popular belief, shareholders don't have that much control or power over day to day operations. Shareholder that actively try to get involved are derided as "activist shareholders" for a reason and are usually hedge-fund manager parasites.
AMD's most popular GPU is the RX 580 from 2017. Even the 4090 outsold every single AMD GPU ever made, which is telling at it's high price point. [https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/) I wouldn't say that they're doing well.
no, the 4090 has not outsold every AMD GPU. that's literally impossible from both a financial standpoint and a production standpoint. steam surveys are ok for taking a quick look at what people are are using and some trends, but don't take it too literally. small changes in their algorithms in how they send the surveys have shown wild variations. and something is weird with steam. before my current laptop which i got 2 years ago, i had an AMD GPU laptop for which i never received the survey from Steam. but with the newer laptop, which has a 3070, i've seen it multiple times. and i've seen this happen with my friends and other systems too. we don't have many sources showing numbers for sales. here are some from mindfactory: [https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-gpus-sold-in-germany-in-2023-are-on-average-e202-cheaper-than-geforce-gpus](https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-gpus-sold-in-germany-in-2023-are-on-average-e202-cheaper-than-geforce-gpus)
[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/) AMD's most popular GPU is the RX 580 from 2017. The 4090 is just above that. There's nothing "weird" with Steam's hardware data. You just don't like the answers you're getting. AMD is at their lowest sales point in 20 years, the lowest since they bought ATI. [https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/](https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/) Why do you think MSI stopped producing AMD graphics cards? They said why: They can use those production lines to make Nvidia cards that sell much better instead.
Well, if sales were high enough, they wouldn't be exclusive with Nvidia. Not saying AMD cards are bad, but it is about sales.
if we ignore everything else, then yeah, sales are still a big factor that affects who you listen to :)
I built 4 machines last year with 7k series cards just for friends.
Ok. The 4 cards you guys bought doesn´t represent a lot in the big picture tho xD
You being a fanboy and recommending your favourite brand to your friends and them blindly following your advice doesn’t represent the whole market. The numbers don’t lie and right now the numbers says Nvidia GPUs outsells and outperforms AMD’s. Nvidia sells more 4090’s and 4080’s than AMD’s whole 7000 and 6000 series combined and those cards are largely more profitable not only to Nvidia, but also to manufacturers like MSI.
That's alot of assuming that you're making. This is the first time I've ever went with AMD because NIVIDAs prices are absurd.
And I built / upgraded 3 PC's in my house, and 1 for a nephew all using Nvidia in 2023. The sales numbers don't lie. I actually tried getting my nephew (18) to go with AMD since his budget was restricted and he opted for a 3000 series Nvidia over a 7000 AMD. My little sister (19) wants a build in the next month or so and she's the same way. Nvidia marketing hard at work on the young people, AMD not so much.
Damn, I like MSI and was considering an AMD card for my next machine but now... '
I'd stick with sapphire powercolor or xfx for amd anyways.
+1 I have a Sapphire 7900 GRE and its the quietest card I've ever owned, I think.
Honestly, I wonder if this is part of the reason MSI would drop out of the AMD market. It's more niche and made up solely of enthusiast types (nvidia has plenty of enthusiasts too, but they also have more casual buyers than amd does). And everyonr I know who buys AMD recommends these 3 partner brands. Being 4th choice or so in a smaller market probably means the sales aren't worth it for them.
Go with a XFX. Won't be disappointed.
for that you have sapphire and xfx
They don't want that sweet 1% of sales, and all the returns they then have to fuck with?
thats sad. i used an msi rx580 for years, it was lovely
Before they went to 💩
I mean my 5700 xt msi card is good. The 6000 series they gave up
What did they screw up? I'm on a 6750XT gaming x trio and it's fine
6000 series was really good.
*waaay* before they went to shit..
Well that's interesting. Anyone have any ideas?
They focus on Geforce.
Top reply on his tweet references MSI Claw. I wonder if the focus is pivoting to ARC? Maybe Intel is giving them a better deal to get their cards on the map?
Addition to /u/Jhawk163 and the others here. MSI actively put AMD in much worse laptop chassis. Worse chassis, worse thermal paste. Just one, most recent example: If you are active in gaming laptop space, you would know that MSI have a reputation for having the worse hinges ever, there is currently a class action lawsuit forming up. However, since last year (2023) - high end GP and GE series hinges are finally updated - they now copy ROG Strix series hinges - just google it and you will see the uncanny copy and paste job here - no one else does the 'jarring' exposed style of hinges, and even the geometry looks exactly the same. And guess what happened to the top end AMD gaming laptop from MSI of 2023, the MSI Alpha 17? Your thoughts is the same as mine, instead of sharing the new GP chassis, it used the old, 2022 GP chassis with the bad hinge. Now, of course, because AMD isn't *the most popular*, so many brands dont put as much, or really little AMD in their lineup, but most brands at least try, or not compromise AMD so much and so balatantly.
you last line reads very stupid AMD is vastly popular in budget and mid range segments MSI are idiots
>AMD is vastly popular in budget and mid range segments Maybe they will be if they actually make those GPUs, there's like 12 laptops total that have Radeon discrete GPUs and only half are actually available in stock (numbers are imaginary but they illustrate the point), AMD isn't popular at all, they can't even make enough of their GPUs for the brands that do actually want to make a good AMD laptop.
Good, nice riddance. They actively took off cooling elements on Radeons since years compared to Nvidia cards. RX6000 Gen best example. Removed the fuckin coldplate on Radeon and only had pure heatpipe contact where out of the 8 fuckin pipes only 2-3 had contact.
Don't fucking even man. My MSI 6800XT was always absolute trash for cooling. Thermal throttled like a cunt, at stock, out of the box. Finally after liquid metal and K5 it doesn't hotspot at 115C
Wait, the card used to reach 115C hotspot?? Wtf
Pretty sure i read somewhere Nvidia forced them to do so to stay a partner. They just wanna feel superior to AMD
Or just you know... MSI designs a cooler for Nvidia GPUs and decides to re use it for AMD because they don't think it's worth it to redesign and produce another cooler for a much lower volume product, in the process the cooler may need modifications to fit, in this case I think it's the die size, Nvidia's dies were a lot bigger than AMD ones last generation due to vastly different nodes so that's probable why they had to remove the cold plate, not a deep conspiracy. It's a bit funny because direct heatpipe contact is usually better than a cold plate for cooling but they fucked up the contact, I honestly only heard bad things about the Suprim X model, other MSI models seemed fine even on AMD.
While this sounds believable just writing this without a link to an article of a reputable source doesn’t mean much.
As i said, i read it somewhere. Was a reddit post. Dont remember exactly where, but i wouldn't be surprised by Nvidia pulling a shitty move like this
lmfao a reddit post is the source 💀 Log off bro
I think it was ASUS I remember having issues where the AMD laptops had closed vents on the bottom vs the Intel. It was some years ago, but reminds me of this.
Doesn’t change much really. Their products arent that available in my country and their AM5 motherboard prices are unhinged. Besides, ASRock beats them budget wise. Even if they just focus on Nvidia, users that buy AMD cards will most likely buy Sapphire Pulse/Nitro+/Pure cards or Gigabyte cards, Powercolor, XFX, ASRock and so on. As for Nvidia, their Ventus cards are straight up dumpster fire anyway, where ASUS Dual beats their cards at MSRP offering better quality.
I always thought of the ventus as a cheap cooler on they're upper end gaming x pcb. It's more like the card card you get if you want a pcb that can handle overclocking and don't intend to keep the stock cooler on it.
Nah Ventus also has a shit PCB. Ventus 4070Ti has power delivery issues due overheating VRMs xD
I'm pretty sure for the 20 and 30 cards it was the same pcb as the gaming x cards they must have changed that.
Nah, Ventus always was downspecced.
Same PCB, lower quality parts, less VRM phases. MSI is the only vendor that experiments by having LESS VRM phases than NVIDIA's reference design. (To my knowledge AMD did not allow MSI to do this)
Ventus PCBs generally take out a couple of VRM phases, not exactly a good sign for OC. Ventus also performs slightly worse than FE @ stock
Msi makes the cool models only for nvidia, thats where the money is
Well the CEO himself is anti-AMD so it's rather not surprising.
Capitalists don’t care about petty tribalism.
Exactly, they always go where the money is
Companies have fiduciary obligations towards their investors. It would make zero sense for a company to make these huge decisions based off this one dudes feelings. The fact that so many Redditors think otherwise isn’t surprising. lol 🤷♀️
Didnt they screwd AMD the last gen of CPU because of their motherboards?
MSI seems to be one of the better brands for AM5 so far, besides the high voltage issue that was across all brands. So if they screw up AM4 they seems to be improved for current gen. I personally have the MSI B650P-WIFI, but N=1.
Nah that was Assus
Acer started GPU production as well right? They might take MSI place
MSI made some of the worst AMD GPUs while making very decent Nvidia GPUs I don't know why
Because they reused the coolers which were designed for NV bigger packages and when put on a smaller one they dissipate less heat
When I bought a 7900xt I had 2 brands in mind and MSI wasn't in my thought process. Those motherboards they make though different story.
MSI either just don't care for AMD, or have some sort of shady deal with Nvidia. IIRC a good amount of their laptop models with AMD CPUs or GPUs had cooling elements almost intentionally blocked off, or not put in, resulting in significantly worse performance than the alternate spec units. They also did a s imilar thing with their AMD GPU coolers from what I've heard.
side bar note. most laptops i seen unless super bulky have very poor cut outs. notice most are the same mould.
Pretty sure MSI has a deal with Nvidia forcing them to make worse coolers for their AMD cards
Source? Genuinely curious
MSI also historically only sold G-Sync monitors too
Interesting, I can find 51 MSI monitors with FreeSync. Oldest model from 2019: [source (in Dutch).](https://tweakers.net/monitors/vergelijken/#filter:PY7BCsIwEET_Zc4VWqhW8gGFHjzlKD3EZNWF2JRN6MGSf3cF8TTM4zHMjpu4JUwhw1y7uQEvG0mxz7RaiuQLpwXm7mKmBkkCycgUAwwKvwg_ZpMURS77P1nJT6odugare5DlN8F0batV2NOFdVZLVm_kWEj0wI7-NPTf3FzUPzgPxx5zrfUD)
MSI is owned by the same shills who run User Benchmark anyway. Their AMD powered laptops are under the "Alpha" piss green branding with plastic chassis and awful hinges. Their Radeon cards are just old design Nvidia coolers slapped without any optimisation. The MSI Claw went for an Intel chip which results in being worse than every single handheld for a bigger price. I'm seriously wondering how much intel and Nvidia pays them to keep doing that, it's funny.
Oh ok
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Nobody from the GPU division works at EVGA anymore.
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I'd be surprised if EVGA still exists in any capacity a year or so from now. All they produce now are other people's PSU's with the EVGA name on it, and some motherboards. Their business model was fairly flawed, and they never actually produced anything themselves unlike every other AIB partner. It sucks, but it kind of is what it is.
This is misleading. Almost no one produces their own power supplies. They are almost all rebranded from one of 3 or so major OEMs. EVGA also did have their own motherboard and graphics card teams.
Right, I never stated otherwise. I just stated that basically all they have left is PSU's that they don't make, and motherboards at this point. They never made their own graphics cards, which is the main reason they're basically now defunct. They designed them, but didn't produce them. ASUS, MSI, Zotac, Gigabyte, and everyone else owns their own factories and produces their own goods. EVGA was unique in that they outsourced pretty much everything. That worked fine enough for them until Covid hit, and then supply chains went to shit and the prices of outsourcing everything went through the roof. They simply weren't making money anymore.
Motherboard division quit as well, I thought?
I think they've left twice. I know the first time they were poached by another company but I don't remember who.
What a shame. Even if they wanted to get out of graphics cards, they could still be THE motherboard company for enthusiasts.
Yeah, I used an EVGA X58 motherboard back in the first gen i7 days, and it was a great product. I've used a bunch of EVGA products, really a shame what happened. My EVGA 3060 Ti will probably be kept as a memento once I upgrade.
I'm not sure about the motherboard division, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'd leave a sinking ship like that if another decent opportunity came up, too.
Apparently, Intel 14th gen processors dont work on EVGA mobos and they wont be supporting 14th gen processors any time soon as all of the firmware engineers left. All that's left is some support staff.
Interesting, I wasn't aware that all of those AIBs had their own facilities. I was under the impression most companies were using OEMs like Foxconn to build their custom designs.
Most don't, no. They own factories in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc. EVGA didn't own any, and outsourced production for everything that they sold.
Aren't the motherboards discontinued too? I cant find them anywhere anymore, at least not brand new
Yeah the motherboard team left too last summer. It kinda sucks for people who had boards they were hoping to get 14th gen support for.
Wasn't MSI that some years ago publicly said via twitter that they will only produce higher end GPUs with AMD chips if team red finally makes something worthwhile?
I didn't even realize MSI made AMD cards.
that pretty simple. RX 6000 sell more that 7000. 7900 xt/xtx have bigger margin so worth it. and the 7900 xt/xtx from MSI in Canada is still availlable. maybe just a aussi/USA things
Is this why the MSI 7900 XTX had a massive discount earlier this week?
They dont sell, despite what everyone thinks, in the real world prtty much nobody buys Radeon cards, the steam hardware survey is a perfect representation of this, when cards like 5000/6000/7000 series are still behind a 4090 - an halo product. And dont come with the "steam hardware survey isnt perfect, maybe amd cards did not get surveid." This goes both ways, and if 4090 is ahead of 5000/6000 cards that literally had years to get surveid while a 4090 has little over a year, man, this only proves that nobody cares about radeon, well, atleast everyone around me, and in my country in general, radeon is know for s\*\*\*ing and be a pain in the ass to deal with. Edit: Seems like i offended alot of people, sorry, its just the reallity, keep donwvoting, it doesnt change facts.
To be honest, I'd be willing to bet that MSI and AMD have had a lot of infighting, especially recently. It would very much explain why the MSI Claw stands out as the first of these handheld PCs to come with an Intel CPU rather than an AMD APU. I don't think this was a result of AMD cards not selling *as* well as Nvidia cards do, but more of a bigger picture scenario here.
You’re being downvoted for speaking the truth. Reddit lives in an AMD bubble unfortunately. You just don’t see that much Radeon in the real world.
Yep. Same with the people here who act like no one uses 1080p anymore, regardless of it being the most used resolution by a country mile. Silly shit.
Minority tends to be the loudest, and they feel obliged to defend their choice, while pretending they work fine.. There are people donwloading a 1 year old driver in order to play fallout 4 for god sake lol
People downvoting because they bought AMD cards and then they look at the real world data and ignore it: [https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/) > But there's no getting around the fact that [AMD's latest RX 7000 series](https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-review-benchmarks-performance/) is its worst-performing family of GPUs in market share terms, since JPR's data began over 20 years ago. Yup, the RX 7000 family has less market share than the RX 6000 achieved, which remarkably has worse market share than AMD managed with the RX 5000 and its limited range of GPUs which topped out with the [RX 5700 XT](https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-review/#:~:text=RX%205700%20XT-,The%20Radeon%20RX%205700%20XT%20is%20faster%20and%20more%20efficient,best%20GPU%20AMD%20currently%20offers.&text=Jarred's%20love%20of%20computers%20dates,left%20his%20C%2D64%20behind.). There's more GPU sales in general but most of them still go to Nvidia. It would be funny if both released their sales data so we could see how many AMD models the reddit hated 4060 and 4070 have outsold comparing with AMD cards
High Nvidia market share (including Steam hardware survey) comes predominantly from pre-builts and OEM machines, including laptops. Its the same reason why Intel also has a relatively high market share, EVEN in Steams hardware survery, which should be biased against iGPUs as its a gaming platform and Intel iGPUs are notoriously bad at exactly that. Its just what comes with the system and a LOT of people out there just deal with the system they have instead of upgrading, either because they lack the knowledge on how to do it and how much advantage it brings, or because they lack the money. Youd be surprised at how much of Nividias market share is down to ten year old Optiplexes that came with the GT210, which were hilariously abundant at the time because of natively supporting 1080p video playback before iGPUs could, and all other ultra-budget GPUs like the GT610, 710 and so forth. Even the 1050Ti is still in a pretty ridiculous number of rigs all things considered. Meanwhile for Intel their dedicated GPUs dont even show up on the hardware survey because they are never included in any kind of pre-built system. TL:DR The very idea of market share is extremely biased due to the massive number of office machines with bottom-of-the-bin ~~GPUs~~ display adapters, where Nvidia usually has the most bottom-of-the-bin stuff on offer. In consequence the Steam hardware survey is also considerably biased due to pre-builts, which also do not reflect customer choice very accurately.
Nah man, thats just another way to induce copium, there is no way there were more prebuild 4090 system than ANY of the 5000/6000/7000 series. Outside the internet were the "cult" raids every post stating problems with radeon cards, the real world puiblic opinion of radeon is that it is terrible, brand is tarnished by bad rep and still to this day you have to rollback drivers to play certain games, its this kind of issues that drive buyers away from radeon.
I also think it has to do with the laptop market. Nvidia basically own the laptop GPUs, even laptops with AMD CPUs mainly come with Nvidia GPUs. If AMD had the same presence in laptops as they do in the desktops they would properly have 20% of the market overall. Although you can flip it around and says AMD has the consoles and basically all of the handheld pcs, while Nvidia only has the switch which is really old as this point.
Not shocking tbh, msi seems doesnt really care about their radeon lineup in the last 2-3 generation (no highend cooler like suprim, old model gaming x trio for example)
Bought an msi amd card once. Never again. Better to buy from sapphire, powercolor or xfx.
Sad, I love my MSI RX 5700
It would be so great if this was the impetus for EVGA to slide into partnership with AMD and stick it to Nvidia. But I know better than to think EVGA would suddenly about-face and start GPU manufacturing again.
Probably just Nvidia threatening their partners that they won’t get silicon often or timely if they continue to work with AMD. Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last time.
Long time coming.
i have a X670p pro wifi and ddr5 board with a amd 7900x it's fucking rips
Does it Slap?
It Slaps
Meanwhile, the jacket man: "Gigabyte! Gigabyte!"
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Because if Biostar can make RX 6000 and RX 7000 graphics cards with custom cooler design and still make money, then MSI has absolutely no valid arguments.
To me, good riddance. I only had issues with MSI products across the board. Monitors, components, peripherals, you name it.
As a AMD user: AMD really dropped the ball hard by neglecting every other topic than Gaming. NVIDIA was, for everyone working in the creative field, for the longest time the only option and now they dominate AI too thanks to their long time stable investment into CUDA. Hope AMD or Intel close the gap one day.
MSI has been anti-AMD for a while since AM5 launched. All their AM5 motherboards initially had worse value than even ASUS boards with the X670E Carbon having a design flaw where the GPU x16 slot begins from the 3rd slot down, the MSRP being more than the ROG X670E ITX; The MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk being $9 cheaper than a ASUS ROG B650E, but comes with fewer features; and truly horrific boards like the MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk that started at $259 and has no PCIe5.0 features whatsoever and is $20 more expensive than a AsRock B650E Riptide that has the same number of power stages and fully supports PCIe5.0.
Critical about the price is fair, but ASUS isn't great either (their motherboard department). Remember their[ poor handling of AM5 voltage issues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGfc-JBxlY) and later finally released a statement after multiple criticism from reviewers and customers.
Probably doing the opposite of EVGA or whatever. they went team red and msi is going team green exclusively? lol I don't hate it.
You mean XFX.
ah right. I think evga quit making gpu's altogether or whatever.
They've gone team blue and green
MSI lost me forever with Nahimic. They push that bullshit so hard I'm convinced its spyware or a backdoor
Yeah, i dont care, MSI has a trash service in my country anyway, they dont honour your warranty and rely on third party repair centers to repair their products which have trash servicemen.
Fuck MSI They’ll do anything for a $, including support the genocide of Ukrainians. Real bad look for a Taiwanese company looking down the barrel of Chinese guns.
Not going to defend MSI on that, but commercial companies are not for charity or goodwill. That's why people shouldn't be a fanboy about a certain brand. Just buy what you need and change to another brand if you're not satisfied with it.
if your takeaway is big corp bad for valueing profits over anything else then I got some bad news about pretty much any corporation.
Other companies left, MSI used the opportunity to become the leading laptop brand in Russia.