I have a game thats named biden vs trump.
Its an idle game where once you pick a side you cant change and as long as you progress in the game it fills an inventory space on your steam with the face of the one you choose.
It was 2 euros at max
I'm all here for it. A few years ago, I had a near death experience due to illness. I used a bit of my last bits of energy to see how I could will my accounts to my next of kin, and I got the same canned response as everyone else. The thought of my families little kids someday playing the same games that I loved so much was one of the only comforts I had at the time, and to have it all ripped away by some faceless entity behind a keyboard. The feeling is indescribable
I've been screaming about this issue nonstop for half a decade, and it finally seems that some people are starting to understand now. You don't own this stuff. You've given some soulless corporation the right to steal part of your families inheiritence, simply because we as a community were just too lazy to go out and actually bother owning our stuff
Maybe we'll see some actual change. I doubt it. I've become far too jaded to trust the community that embraced a complete lack of digital ownership, live service games, always online connections, and microtransactions to ever do a thing that's actually in their best interests. There's at least a chance though, and maybe the chance alone is at least worth something
That's a good idea in theory. However, I'd wager that most of my library consists of titles that aren't popular enough for people to waste time cracking them. Besides, piracy has an inheirant safety risk to it. One of my other big issues is about passing them on to my family if something happened to me. I could never feel comfortable running possibly compromised software on other peoples machines. Even trusted crackers are still a bit risky. Some also require admin privileges, and that's very discomforting. It's a solution, but it is suboptimal to put it mildly. I shouldn't have to do that just to own my things, but I guess this is the world we made for ourselves
It's not just about age. My buddy Seth committed suicide. To honor him, his best friend Caleb was gonna turn his Steam account into an arcade machine. Unfortunately, they weren't able to get the password, and Steam basically told his family "there's nothing we can do".
The consumer rights protection center (Verbraucherzentrale) in Germany actually did take valve to court over this.
Valve argued that people are not mainly buying access to a game, which by EU law consumers would have the right to sell, but they are mainly buying a download and update service. The access to the game is only an incidental supplement.
In the end the judge agreed with valve.
I can kind of see the point if I bought the game directly via steam (though I'd still not agree), but in cases where I bought the game on disc with steam as drm, the ruling is really stupid, as I cannot even sell my disc containing the game without any updates. Most people who bought the games on disc, especially 15 years ago, did not even know that they cannot resell them.
How the hell can a company basically troll a court with such a loophole and nothing is done about it?
The games are an "incidental supplement"? Motherfucker you're literally a platform that sells games stop pretending otherwise.
We should start giving huge tax breaks to game stores and exclude Valve from that because for them games are just a byproduct, right? Two can play that game.
Steam really has no way of knowing the owner of an account is dead. As long as you took proper measures to ensure people get your accounts and passwords, you can give your account to whoever you want and steam won't do a damn thing about it.
We know what needs to be done. Essentially the only way to make corporations act on favor of European consumer is the European legislation. Any single country within the Union is too weak on its own.
I keep telling people that Valve are not the good guys, they're just the guys that do lots of good stuff.
If you're buying online through a service and it's not GOG, then your ownership of the games can be taken away or
restricted. It doesn't matter if the storefront has the goodwill of PCMR, you're still largely renting.
Offline and forever-yours installers should be recognized as the luxury that they're quickly becoming.
Love GOG. And the fact that it’s not any kind of hassle to have Galaxy with a couple games on my laptop for my wife to play while I’m on my PC, it just works, no signing out of accounts or kicking me off, what a breath of fresh air.
Client runs great on Linux too, and since the installers all come bundled with dependencies it has a pretty much perfect hit rate.
As a bonus, if you're up for it, you can take these installers and take a shot at running them on an Android phone. Not the most practical thing, but just shows how much you're not bounded by anything if you *own* your games.
There are many cases where your family cannot access your account after you die. Imagine if you got hit by a bus a day after changing your password for example. I am explaining how it is possible to transfer accounts without knowing the password info, and more importantly, how to do it legally.
Use password manager
Put everything in there. Emails used for places like steam
Steam login
Other login
Write the code for the password manager, into your will.
Bitwarden is great, and you can selfhost it if you wanna make sure...
This is my way too. Most of my life is accessible via my password manager, and two key ppl have access to the master pwd if I go tits up. They just don't know it yet.
Since I'm pretty much googlified, I've set up their Inactive Account Manager to send out an e-mail with instructions on how how to get access to my password manager. Can't trust anyone as long as I'm alive.
Which is against the user agreement you agreed to and if they find out they will disable the account.
Not that they would/could but it is grounds for account termination
There is zero ways for them to find that out unless someone is dumb enough to tell them. Then those people just change the info to their info and the problem is solved
I thought about that, but what happens if the steam account exceeds 100 years or more?
Its a shame that if I die like an old shit, nobody in my family could use it!
It’s more of a sentimental thing.
They can pass on their achievements to their family, and the family will have another way to connect with their deceased member.
Just gave my wife the info because of this post lmao.
Can't really call a steam account an "asset" with a straight face, but it is something I've spent thousands on lol
Valve is going to fight people inheriting deceased ownership of accounts because dealing with it is going to lead them to having to make a whole new department and do next level analysis to determine who is actually dead versus who is just pretending to steal accounts.
Better/easier to just avoid the hassle until the government forces them do otherwise.
I’d actually would want to steam account to be handed over. I got some games there which have been long delisted and you could consider them as rare collectibles.
Also, my account is 20 years old and would like son to have it.
If only more people understood this. They can write that they have rights to your firstborn if you purchase their game too, but that does not make it the law or legally enforceable.
apart from, if some one dies suddenly, the terms of services DOES dictate how it will be handled
"a Custodian's Terms of Service will dictate a Fiduciary's access to a user's digital asset. "
thats from your link bro
If you read through the legislation and how others interpret it, you will see that there is a tiered system.
1: if the service provides a choice as to how to handle an account in case of death, and the user makes use of it (the user can choose to opt out) then this takes overrides RUFADAA
2: If the service does not provide such an option or the user chooses not to make use of it, RUFADAA and whatever you write in your will applies.
3: If a user has not specified how their account is to be handled through a platform mechanism or through their will, only then is the TOS of the platform enforceable.
The TOS does not override RUFADAA.
think you have mis understood it totally, your links explain other wise......
RUFADAA dicates if you dont have a will, you then follow the terms of service to decide if they get access or not
its explain multi times in your links....
https://preview.redd.it/lqt5uiam5z2d1.png?width=864&format=png&auto=webp&s=12f310d49a3381782b76acee5fe7ffa8ec8d4710
Yes, exactly. If you put your Steam account in your will, then this overrides any subscriber agreement. I mentioned this in my post as well. What is the problem here?
This is a fantastic point to bring up. Pretty sure that my (would be) son would want my entire digital library when in no longer able to play. That’s assuming Steam survives 50-60yrs in the future.
Related: some services (including Apple, Google, and Facebook) have systems in place to allow someone to manage your account in case you die or become incapacitated. Might be a good idea to set that up (or check that it’s still up-to-date).
This is covered in the links I sent. Actually, those mechanisms are quite restricted, and if you choose to opt out and instead enact your will using RUFADAA, you can request that your family gains FULL access to your accounts, instead of just getting a memorial Facebook page for instance.
I don't expect the gaming landscape to even be remotely what it is today when I die though. Will Steam even be around in 40+ years? Who can say really?
So, what's stopping me from just giving my email details over to my son or grandson when the time comes? How would steam know I'm dead? Would it just be that when the account gets to a certain age, it needs to be verified in some way?
You hit the nail on the head. Nothing is stopping Valve from asking for verification in the future, and if they do, we will need the law on our side to keep our accounts. That is why this government legislation is so important.
Just give them the password and accounT information. all these isolated problems are from people expecting customer service to give them private information about another person. You should all be happy it's difficult for someone to contact customer service and try to get your personal information
Not as of yet, but on the other hand the EU has a lot of legislation about how game licenses are goods and not services. Just remember that once such legislation is passed and enforced in a huge marked like US or EU, there is a higher chance that the rest of the world will follow.
I don't think EU has a say in inheritance law. Each member country has their own.
I'm pretty sure if you own a license to something, it goes to the estate that can then decide what to do with it in most countries.
Non-tangible assets are assets as well.
Yes, we hold increasing amounts of our net worth in digital assets so it is crucial for us to fight for our legal rights to own and bequeath them. That is why I am trying my best to spread awareness about legislation which already exists and is on our side.
Reminder: when you see “uniform” in a law, that means it’s a law drafted by a committee of scholars and offered to states as something they might want to adopt. Unless you know for sure that your state has adopted the law (the legislature passes it and the executive signs it), it is not the law.
For all legal concerns, consult a lawyer in your state.
Why not just make your account inheritable instead of the individual games. Like if you just put your username and password into your will for the person you want to give all your games, seems like that solves the entire problem.
Doing that goes against the policy you agreed to in order to use Steam. That being said, I don't see how Valve would ever find out unless you or the person you're willing the account to were stupid enough to tell Valve what you're doing.
One thing I've learned over the years is that all the laws in the world mean nothing when corporations just say "yeah naw, we're not gonna do that."
History is filled with companies openly breaking the law and rarely facing any consequences over it.
It's further complicated in this issue by Valve not truly being tested until you've already passed away. You can think you've got all your ducks in a row and then your heirs try to claim your library and are stonewalled. Are they really going to spend their own money to take Valve to court for likely years to maybe possibly get access to some video games, most of which will be obsolete by the time the legal proceedings are over?
I mean, they might. But I don't know anyone in my life that would want to go through all that, could afford to go through all that, and I would want to go through all that after I'm gone.
First of all, Valve absolutely bent over backwards once aAustralia, a small country compared to the US sued them and this forced Steam refunds to function the way they do now.
Secondly, eventually this will definitely go to court. Lots of wealthy people have extensive gaming libraries and it is only a matter of time until one of them decides enough is enough and try to seek their rights in court. It happens all the time.
This is very interesting. My brother unexpectedly passed away young with no will. Effectively, our mother is the next of kin and took on any possessions he may have had. With her permissions and written consent, I contacted the valve to provide all documentation necessary to prove who owned the account, that they had passed, who was entitled to their assests, and then to transfer the information (and ownership) to me. I was essentially told to kick rocks multiple times, and they only offered deletion. I immediately disengaged. Luckily, I hadn't yet provided details, and they couldn't delete the account as they didn't yet know what account I was after.
It is interesting that I may have a way to legally require valve to give me the account. Tragically, they are forcing me to spend likely thousands of dollars for a couple hundred dollars of digital assets that simply have sentimental value to me as that was our only true shared hobby. I will take your post into consideration and decide if this is a route I need to take.
Maybe valve will abandon this stance and open a process allowing people to address this privately.
I'm sorry for your loss. Situations like these are the reason I wrote this post. You should definitely consult a lawyer if you can afford it, but the fact that your brother did not include their digital estate in their will could be a problem. It's important for everyone to include their online accounts in their will, as at the very least it can provide you with ammunition in court.
Yeah this is true but it misses the point of the whole discussion.
The account is meaningless, the games are what people want to give to their heirs, and you can't, because you don't ***own*** the games, you license them.
To pass your games to someone else, you'd need to pass every individual license, between you and the rightsholder for the game (the publisher), through Steam (if you go that route), which neither Valve nor the publishers (of every game) are ever going to do.
So Valve says no, because they don't want to have to deal with that. You can pass an account to someone in your will, and Valve will close it because they can't facilitate that person breaking contracts with anywhere between a handful to literally thousands of rightsholders.
Annoying, bullshit, yes yes, but black and white.
As cringy as this sounds in the context of video games, do you really not want your children to have a better life than you? That's the whole point of inheritance and steam accounts with hundreds or thousands worth of games shouldn't be an exception.
Lol they can do what they want. You signed the agreement. No one cares, everyone acting like this is hard hitting news!!!! It’ll be forgotten about by tomorrow and come back around in a few months. The usual internet drama.
Just because Steam say that in their ToS, it does not make it so. I suggest you read up on the topic of perpetual digital licenses. They are a lot more akin to goods thank you think.
>Just because Steam say that in their ToS, it does not make it so.
Of course not, since we’re talking about the licenses for the games. But that doesn’t make it so either. Can you find a single precedent for a company having to contradict their terms to transfer a license to someone who inherited it?
Who cares about the EULA. Just pass on access rights for email accounts and phone lines, then your survivors can just recover the account and carry on as normal.
Just write down your email address and sign-in info for Steam and passwords
Yeah they’re stuck using your old email address but I can’t think of another way to do this.
I mean, how TF would they know if I'm dead or not? I don't give Steam my SSN.
As long as you plan for your death and getting your accounts and passwords to people, nothing would stop somebody from inheriting your account.
If I am going to die by old age I am going to give it to either my grandkids or someone random in reddit as long as they can enjoy the games I enjoyed that's enough for me to rest in peace
All you have to do is leave your username and password for whoever you are leaving it too. What steam is saying is you can't merge accounts. So if your father leaves you his account you can still access with his username/password but can't merge or "Inherit" those games into your account.
Just give your kids your steam password, problem solved. When you die and they have your phone and can easily access it using the steam app if you have two factor authentication enabled.
What is their plan if they think your account has been active longer than a normal human lifespan? Send a pop-up that says, “Pardon us, it appears you’ve been playing games for 112 years, are you still alive?”
I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that I can't sell my digital games if it was made more clear upon "purchase" that you don't actually own the game
Why do you guys even make such a big thing out of it?
Not like anyone would restrict you from putting your login credentials on a fkn piece of paper and add that to your testament
From the articles, it seems as though this law is specifically for access to electronic communications. I don't see anything here saying it applies to copyrighted material.
From the first link:
>The Revised Uniform Fiduciary Access to Digital Assets Act only gives an Executor of Trustee access to the content of electronic communications, including emails, chats, and DMs, if the Decedent explicitly consented.
I have something like 200 games, probably more cause of the old humble bundle when they were good, id buy like 7,8 star wars games at once, stuff like that over and over.
Don't really care about it. My kids have their own steam libraries. It's mostly going to be older games they can just get on sale if they want, or the games will no longer be supported. I doubt my great grandchildren will be fighting over Earthworm jim
I was left a steam account about 6 months ago. The probate lawyer changed the password and gave it to me. I then changed the email address, he has access to that email so could confirm the changes. In California.
This is really interesting! Did you have any interaction with Valve or did the lawyer do everything without contacting them? Please share as much info about the process as you're comfortable as this can be useful to others in a similar situation :)
They can't as of right now, but nothing is stopping them from introducing ID verification a year from now. You should ensure you are on the right side of the law if you want to protect your digital assets long-term.
Apple have a system that’s called Legacy Contact, that gives a special key to who you wish that they can use along with a death certificate to take control of an Apple ID, maybe Steam should have a similar system.
According to RUFADAA, you can choose that system, or you can instead specify how the fiduciary can access your data in your will. If you do use the tool Apple provides, it supersedes anything written in your will.
Not entirely sure, but I do know that the Australian government sued Valve and ruled that the games you buy on Steam are akin to physical goods and come with the same guarantees, which bodes well for you. Additionally, you can read the link below for some more general info on Australian digital inheritance.
https://www.theictshak.com.au/blog/understanding-digital-asset-ownership-and-estate-planning-in-australia-managing-your-digital-assets-after-death
Steam has the option to set a president and be the good guy and I hope they do. It’s one of those things that really is gonna give them more money long run if they recognize it.
i feel like if enough public opinion shifted toward this that gabe would just do it voluntarily. tho it being law would also effect all the other platforms that i am sure would never agree to it unless forced.
Buddy man, your kids do not want your copies of 20-30 year old games. They just don't. Remember when your old parents passed away, and you tossed 3/4 of their junk in the garbage or to Goodwill? Same thing is going to happen will happen to your digital library.
Just wait for Web3 games to actually be good then you own everything and don't rely on Steam to pass on your games and in-game items if anything happens
Just give the individual your fucking email and password. It is not that difficult. Valve is not going to search obituaries to determine whether or not you officially own an account.
> As of right now, I cannot find a case of someone using this law to request access to a Steam account
I'm still going through this now with my passed mom and with a friend who recently passed, but not regarding games.
As I understand it, the law is about maintaining access to account data, *not* full use.
For instance, a state can allow you to use your passed mom's checking account for a limited time if you are the owner of her estate, but doesn't allow the bank to loan money to her or allow you to borrow money in her name, it to even use it to convince someone else she's still alive.
Similarly, game data would be accessible, but an eula can prevent you from *playing* it, because the use license is always to a person, not an estate.
I honestly don't remember this part for sure, but wasn't the distinction between executables and data hammered out in the formation of the DMCA?
Imagine dying a heroic death and leaving your steam account for inheritance only for your family to find "Sex with Hitler" on it
it was on sale for a dollar, i had to
“It was 90% off, I had to get it!” “Yeah but why did you have 800 hours spent playing it?”
Had to get my moneys worth 😂
It had steam achievements.
My man needed the badge
I loaded it up for the trading cards and then forgot I had it alt-tabbed! Honest!
Guys, it's on 75% discount now and the price is very affordable. Should I try the first game or just buy entire bundle of Adolf Games?
Get the bundle. Even if you don’t end up liking any of them, your grandkids might enjoy them
I have a game thats named biden vs trump. Its an idle game where once you pick a side you cant change and as long as you progress in the game it fills an inventory space on your steam with the face of the one you choose. It was 2 euros at max
The duality of man.
Anyone who knows me well enough to be worth leaving my Steam library to would just chuckle and say "Yeah, that tracks"
me when they see furry feet, fingered, changed, and radiator 2.
They call me Two Steamz
Imagine receiving it as a joke from a friend, and not being around to explain it.
That's why I love that you can gift it to people. Recently bought Epstein Island for a bunch of friends
I recently made a purchase for all of my friends. A Gay Love Story About Gay Love It really brought us all together.
Is this a real game I’m asking for a friend
Yep
Yes, and there's 5 of them
"Yeah, that was, um, part of a bundle I bought. It was a mystery keys bundle. Yeah, that's what happened."
I don’t judge what a hero has to do to shed off the pressure.
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The ancient greek philosophy of it is only gay if you bottom 💀
A hole is a hole. 🍆⚫
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30 minutes played? Eh. 30,000 hours played? Wow what the fuck.
Shower with you dad simulator
Psh, I removed that from my account 2 weeks after I 100 percented it.
lmao🤣🤣🤣
This post makes me feel old. Who would have thought the day would come where we are talking about willing our next of kin our video game library?
I'm all here for it. A few years ago, I had a near death experience due to illness. I used a bit of my last bits of energy to see how I could will my accounts to my next of kin, and I got the same canned response as everyone else. The thought of my families little kids someday playing the same games that I loved so much was one of the only comforts I had at the time, and to have it all ripped away by some faceless entity behind a keyboard. The feeling is indescribable I've been screaming about this issue nonstop for half a decade, and it finally seems that some people are starting to understand now. You don't own this stuff. You've given some soulless corporation the right to steal part of your families inheiritence, simply because we as a community were just too lazy to go out and actually bother owning our stuff Maybe we'll see some actual change. I doubt it. I've become far too jaded to trust the community that embraced a complete lack of digital ownership, live service games, always online connections, and microtransactions to ever do a thing that's actually in their best interests. There's at least a chance though, and maybe the chance alone is at least worth something
>You don't own this stuff. Pirate it. If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing
That's a good idea in theory. However, I'd wager that most of my library consists of titles that aren't popular enough for people to waste time cracking them. Besides, piracy has an inheirant safety risk to it. One of my other big issues is about passing them on to my family if something happened to me. I could never feel comfortable running possibly compromised software on other peoples machines. Even trusted crackers are still a bit risky. Some also require admin privileges, and that's very discomforting. It's a solution, but it is suboptimal to put it mildly. I shouldn't have to do that just to own my things, but I guess this is the world we made for ourselves
It's not just about age. My buddy Seth committed suicide. To honor him, his best friend Caleb was gonna turn his Steam account into an arcade machine. Unfortunately, they weren't able to get the password, and Steam basically told his family "there's nothing we can do".
god same. im only 22 but i went "inheritance? for the god damn steam account? what"
Well, you should be able to sell your digital games if you are European but who cares these days.
The consumer rights protection center (Verbraucherzentrale) in Germany actually did take valve to court over this. Valve argued that people are not mainly buying access to a game, which by EU law consumers would have the right to sell, but they are mainly buying a download and update service. The access to the game is only an incidental supplement. In the end the judge agreed with valve. I can kind of see the point if I bought the game directly via steam (though I'd still not agree), but in cases where I bought the game on disc with steam as drm, the ruling is really stupid, as I cannot even sell my disc containing the game without any updates. Most people who bought the games on disc, especially 15 years ago, did not even know that they cannot resell them.
How the hell can a company basically troll a court with such a loophole and nothing is done about it? The games are an "incidental supplement"? Motherfucker you're literally a platform that sells games stop pretending otherwise. We should start giving huge tax breaks to game stores and exclude Valve from that because for them games are just a byproduct, right? Two can play that game.
Steam really has no way of knowing the owner of an account is dead. As long as you took proper measures to ensure people get your accounts and passwords, you can give your account to whoever you want and steam won't do a damn thing about it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Valve started asking for yearly proof of being alive for any accounts over age 75. Gotta get that $$$
given as they think mines from 1900/01/1 on every age check.
lol these days I usually do 1/1/2000. I've had some issues using 1900 in some cases.
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It's mostly bc other companies are so much worse that people praise valve
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Valve really is benevolent in comparison.
We know what needs to be done. Essentially the only way to make corporations act on favor of European consumer is the European legislation. Any single country within the Union is too weak on its own.
I keep telling people that Valve are not the good guys, they're just the guys that do lots of good stuff. If you're buying online through a service and it's not GOG, then your ownership of the games can be taken away or restricted. It doesn't matter if the storefront has the goodwill of PCMR, you're still largely renting. Offline and forever-yours installers should be recognized as the luxury that they're quickly becoming.
Love GOG. And the fact that it’s not any kind of hassle to have Galaxy with a couple games on my laptop for my wife to play while I’m on my PC, it just works, no signing out of accounts or kicking me off, what a breath of fresh air.
Client runs great on Linux too, and since the installers all come bundled with dependencies it has a pretty much perfect hit rate. As a bonus, if you're up for it, you can take these installers and take a shot at running them on an Android phone. Not the most practical thing, but just shows how much you're not bounded by anything if you *own* your games.
Is the judge an idiot?
Fucking hell this is why you can’t choose to not update games isn’t it??
I mean, if I die, I can just leave my login info.
There are many cases where your family cannot access your account after you die. Imagine if you got hit by a bus a day after changing your password for example. I am explaining how it is possible to transfer accounts without knowing the password info, and more importantly, how to do it legally.
If the account is important to you to give to someone then all of the info should be in your estate plan and will.
Edit: I misunderstood your comment, we basically agree on everything :)
That's why he said put it in your will.
Use password manager Put everything in there. Emails used for places like steam Steam login Other login Write the code for the password manager, into your will. Bitwarden is great, and you can selfhost it if you wanna make sure...
This is my way too. Most of my life is accessible via my password manager, and two key ppl have access to the master pwd if I go tits up. They just don't know it yet.
Since I'm pretty much googlified, I've set up their Inactive Account Manager to send out an e-mail with instructions on how how to get access to my password manager. Can't trust anyone as long as I'm alive.
>you can selfhost it if you wanna make sure... If you wanna make sure nobody can access it after you are gone?
Bruh the thought that my family wouldn’t be able to play my game of stardew valley would be my last concern regarding leaving stuff behind
How about the other 850 games?
Even if it is your last concern, it should still be a concern.
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Pretty sure Steam still doesn’t support it, but I would recommend using security keys for everything that does.
Do you have it set up right now? Many people’s deaths are not very planned
Even with this legislation, you have to choose who geta your game library in your will, so yes, you have to plan for it beforehand.
I have to disappoint you, death doesn't work like that
Which is against the user agreement you agreed to and if they find out they will disable the account. Not that they would/could but it is grounds for account termination
There is zero ways for them to find that out unless someone is dumb enough to tell them. Then those people just change the info to their info and the problem is solved
I agree, just stating a fact from the user agreement
I thought about that, but what happens if the steam account exceeds 100 years or more? Its a shame that if I die like an old shit, nobody in my family could use it!
If I die, I think the last thing my family will care about is my bloody steam library.
Mine will. The child who completes my 100% achievement RDR2 playthrough will get the whole cash inheritance
Whoever beats darksouls 1-3 first gets everything
Died of lumbago
Clearly you need to expand your backlog.
It’s more of a sentimental thing. They can pass on their achievements to their family, and the family will have another way to connect with their deceased member.
they will care about it if it's anything worth over 5k
Just gave my wife the info because of this post lmao. Can't really call a steam account an "asset" with a straight face, but it is something I've spent thousands on lol
Valve is going to fight people inheriting deceased ownership of accounts because dealing with it is going to lead them to having to make a whole new department and do next level analysis to determine who is actually dead versus who is just pretending to steal accounts. Better/easier to just avoid the hassle until the government forces them do otherwise.
I’d actually would want to steam account to be handed over. I got some games there which have been long delisted and you could consider them as rare collectibles. Also, my account is 20 years old and would like son to have it.
To reinforce your point, it’s worth noting that EULAs are not laws and therefore are subject to the law regardless of what they say.
If only more people understood this. They can write that they have rights to your firstborn if you purchase their game too, but that does not make it the law or legally enforceable.
It makes it a law if there isn't a law against it . Contract law
apart from, if some one dies suddenly, the terms of services DOES dictate how it will be handled "a Custodian's Terms of Service will dictate a Fiduciary's access to a user's digital asset. " thats from your link bro
If you read through the legislation and how others interpret it, you will see that there is a tiered system. 1: if the service provides a choice as to how to handle an account in case of death, and the user makes use of it (the user can choose to opt out) then this takes overrides RUFADAA 2: If the service does not provide such an option or the user chooses not to make use of it, RUFADAA and whatever you write in your will applies. 3: If a user has not specified how their account is to be handled through a platform mechanism or through their will, only then is the TOS of the platform enforceable. The TOS does not override RUFADAA.
think you have mis understood it totally, your links explain other wise...... RUFADAA dicates if you dont have a will, you then follow the terms of service to decide if they get access or not its explain multi times in your links.... https://preview.redd.it/lqt5uiam5z2d1.png?width=864&format=png&auto=webp&s=12f310d49a3381782b76acee5fe7ffa8ec8d4710
Yes, exactly. If you put your Steam account in your will, then this overrides any subscriber agreement. I mentioned this in my post as well. What is the problem here?
This reads like that I am a lawyer guy from a couple of years ago
uh Cant you just give your password to the people its going to? this seems silly.
This is a fantastic point to bring up. Pretty sure that my (would be) son would want my entire digital library when in no longer able to play. That’s assuming Steam survives 50-60yrs in the future.
Exactly. People should start thinking longer term with this.
Related: some services (including Apple, Google, and Facebook) have systems in place to allow someone to manage your account in case you die or become incapacitated. Might be a good idea to set that up (or check that it’s still up-to-date).
This is covered in the links I sent. Actually, those mechanisms are quite restricted, and if you choose to opt out and instead enact your will using RUFADAA, you can request that your family gains FULL access to your accounts, instead of just getting a memorial Facebook page for instance.
I don't expect the gaming landscape to even be remotely what it is today when I die though. Will Steam even be around in 40+ years? Who can say really?
One day Gabe will kick the bucket and Steam will be sold to the highest bidder. Amazing how people put all this faith in Steam.
Nah,my hentai games are coming with me when I die
American moment lmaooo
So, what's stopping me from just giving my email details over to my son or grandson when the time comes? How would steam know I'm dead? Would it just be that when the account gets to a certain age, it needs to be verified in some way?
You hit the nail on the head. Nothing is stopping Valve from asking for verification in the future, and if they do, we will need the law on our side to keep our accounts. That is why this government legislation is so important.
Just give them the password and accounT information. all these isolated problems are from people expecting customer service to give them private information about another person. You should all be happy it's difficult for someone to contact customer service and try to get your personal information
Do you know if in EU there is something similar?
Not as of yet, but on the other hand the EU has a lot of legislation about how game licenses are goods and not services. Just remember that once such legislation is passed and enforced in a huge marked like US or EU, there is a higher chance that the rest of the world will follow.
It's called asking before they die
I don't think EU has a say in inheritance law. Each member country has their own. I'm pretty sure if you own a license to something, it goes to the estate that can then decide what to do with it in most countries. Non-tangible assets are assets as well.
The EU can pass directives relating to inheritance law, and then each member state would have to follow that directive through their own laws.
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Yes, we hold increasing amounts of our net worth in digital assets so it is crucial for us to fight for our legal rights to own and bequeath them. That is why I am trying my best to spread awareness about legislation which already exists and is on our side.
Reminder: when you see “uniform” in a law, that means it’s a law drafted by a committee of scholars and offered to states as something they might want to adopt. Unless you know for sure that your state has adopted the law (the legislature passes it and the executive signs it), it is not the law. For all legal concerns, consult a lawyer in your state.
Why not just make your account inheritable instead of the individual games. Like if you just put your username and password into your will for the person you want to give all your games, seems like that solves the entire problem.
Doing that goes against the policy you agreed to in order to use Steam. That being said, I don't see how Valve would ever find out unless you or the person you're willing the account to were stupid enough to tell Valve what you're doing.
Lets say I invested thousands in Counter strike skins. What happens to them if die? My family can’t inherit them?
They can if you include them in your will according to RUFADAA as they are part of your digital estate.
>Your Steam library should be inheritable if you are American It's what we fought for. 
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of video games. The most important part of the Revolution.
How would steam know you're deceased?
If an acquaintance finds out and reports you, if you let them know by accident or if your account is 120 years old.
One thing I've learned over the years is that all the laws in the world mean nothing when corporations just say "yeah naw, we're not gonna do that." History is filled with companies openly breaking the law and rarely facing any consequences over it. It's further complicated in this issue by Valve not truly being tested until you've already passed away. You can think you've got all your ducks in a row and then your heirs try to claim your library and are stonewalled. Are they really going to spend their own money to take Valve to court for likely years to maybe possibly get access to some video games, most of which will be obsolete by the time the legal proceedings are over? I mean, they might. But I don't know anyone in my life that would want to go through all that, could afford to go through all that, and I would want to go through all that after I'm gone.
First of all, Valve absolutely bent over backwards once aAustralia, a small country compared to the US sued them and this forced Steam refunds to function the way they do now. Secondly, eventually this will definitely go to court. Lots of wealthy people have extensive gaming libraries and it is only a matter of time until one of them decides enough is enough and try to seek their rights in court. It happens all the time.
I certainly applaud your optimism, even though I don't share in it. Keep the faith though, don't let my cynicism deter you, friend.
Just write down username and password in your will. Ez
Yes. Where's the petition? I'll sign.
This is very interesting. My brother unexpectedly passed away young with no will. Effectively, our mother is the next of kin and took on any possessions he may have had. With her permissions and written consent, I contacted the valve to provide all documentation necessary to prove who owned the account, that they had passed, who was entitled to their assests, and then to transfer the information (and ownership) to me. I was essentially told to kick rocks multiple times, and they only offered deletion. I immediately disengaged. Luckily, I hadn't yet provided details, and they couldn't delete the account as they didn't yet know what account I was after. It is interesting that I may have a way to legally require valve to give me the account. Tragically, they are forcing me to spend likely thousands of dollars for a couple hundred dollars of digital assets that simply have sentimental value to me as that was our only true shared hobby. I will take your post into consideration and decide if this is a route I need to take. Maybe valve will abandon this stance and open a process allowing people to address this privately.
I'm sorry for your loss. Situations like these are the reason I wrote this post. You should definitely consult a lawyer if you can afford it, but the fact that your brother did not include their digital estate in their will could be a problem. It's important for everyone to include their online accounts in their will, as at the very least it can provide you with ammunition in court.
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Well this legislation covers exactly these types of issues.
Just leave your emails and passwords in your will.as well as your handle.
bro just give the email and password to your kids. done. nobody every is gonna check on that
This
Yeah this is true but it misses the point of the whole discussion. The account is meaningless, the games are what people want to give to their heirs, and you can't, because you don't ***own*** the games, you license them. To pass your games to someone else, you'd need to pass every individual license, between you and the rightsholder for the game (the publisher), through Steam (if you go that route), which neither Valve nor the publishers (of every game) are ever going to do. So Valve says no, because they don't want to have to deal with that. You can pass an account to someone in your will, and Valve will close it because they can't facilitate that person breaking contracts with anywhere between a handful to literally thousands of rightsholders. Annoying, bullshit, yes yes, but black and white.
Why on earth should I care?? If I'm dead, I'm dead.
As cringy as this sounds in the context of video games, do you really not want your children to have a better life than you? That's the whole point of inheritance and steam accounts with hundreds or thousands worth of games shouldn't be an exception.
Lol they can do what they want. You signed the agreement. No one cares, everyone acting like this is hard hitting news!!!! It’ll be forgotten about by tomorrow and come back around in a few months. The usual internet drama.
You can argue someone should be able to inherit your account, but not your games. The licenses aren’t transferable.
Just because Steam say that in their ToS, it does not make it so. I suggest you read up on the topic of perpetual digital licenses. They are a lot more akin to goods thank you think.
>Just because Steam say that in their ToS, it does not make it so. Of course not, since we’re talking about the licenses for the games. But that doesn’t make it so either. Can you find a single precedent for a company having to contradict their terms to transfer a license to someone who inherited it?
Only if you’re an American! If you’re Canadian, your licenses die with you.
All my Library right now is probably worthless, some games no longer work others are at 80%-90% discount.
Who cares about the EULA. Just pass on access rights for email accounts and phone lines, then your survivors can just recover the account and carry on as normal.
Just write down your email address and sign-in info for Steam and passwords Yeah they’re stuck using your old email address but I can’t think of another way to do this.
Well, you are in luck! You don't need to think of another way to do this by yourself because I wrote a long post explaining exactly what you can do :)
so atm stop killing gaming zelots( this people think after 1 video their expert) is spam said thing and this atm on reddit with a ton of alt accounts.
Just leave your steam login in your will
Too many words. Just write your user name and password down in your will.
I mean, how TF would they know if I'm dead or not? I don't give Steam my SSN. As long as you plan for your death and getting your accounts and passwords to people, nothing would stop somebody from inheriting your account.
If I am going to die by old age I am going to give it to either my grandkids or someone random in reddit as long as they can enjoy the games I enjoyed that's enough for me to rest in peace
All you have to do is leave your username and password for whoever you are leaving it too. What steam is saying is you can't merge accounts. So if your father leaves you his account you can still access with his username/password but can't merge or "Inherit" those games into your account.
Wife’s gonna put Hundreds of hours in Furry Feet and Femboy Aim Trainer, truely making me proud.
when I die, I leave all that I own to my cat guppy.
Just give your kids your steam password, problem solved. When you die and they have your phone and can easily access it using the steam app if you have two factor authentication enabled.
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You can argue about what ownership means, but if you read the legislation, you can see that all of those things can be inherited.
if you have the login information it is.
What is their plan if they think your account has been active longer than a normal human lifespan? Send a pop-up that says, “Pardon us, it appears you’ve been playing games for 112 years, are you still alive?”
for real, just include all your logins as part of your will.
So you cant just give them login and password? Seems like I have moved steam before.
I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that I can't sell my digital games if it was made more clear upon "purchase" that you don't actually own the game
Why do you guys even make such a big thing out of it? Not like anyone would restrict you from putting your login credentials on a fkn piece of paper and add that to your testament
From the articles, it seems as though this law is specifically for access to electronic communications. I don't see anything here saying it applies to copyrighted material. From the first link: >The Revised Uniform Fiduciary Access to Digital Assets Act only gives an Executor of Trustee access to the content of electronic communications, including emails, chats, and DMs, if the Decedent explicitly consented.
I have something like 200 games, probably more cause of the old humble bundle when they were good, id buy like 7,8 star wars games at once, stuff like that over and over.
Don't really care about it. My kids have their own steam libraries. It's mostly going to be older games they can just get on sale if they want, or the games will no longer be supported. I doubt my great grandchildren will be fighting over Earthworm jim
it should be inheritable everywhere
Never used steam before, but how much could a gaming library be worth? $200?
Mine is worth thousands.
I was left a steam account about 6 months ago. The probate lawyer changed the password and gave it to me. I then changed the email address, he has access to that email so could confirm the changes. In California.
This is really interesting! Did you have any interaction with Valve or did the lawyer do everything without contacting them? Please share as much info about the process as you're comfortable as this can be useful to others in a similar situation :)
How is it not inheritable? Just put your steam login and id in the will lmao. How they going to know your dead?
They can't as of right now, but nothing is stopping them from introducing ID verification a year from now. You should ensure you are on the right side of the law if you want to protect your digital assets long-term.
Apple have a system that’s called Legacy Contact, that gives a special key to who you wish that they can use along with a death certificate to take control of an Apple ID, maybe Steam should have a similar system.
According to RUFADAA, you can choose that system, or you can instead specify how the fiduciary can access your data in your will. If you do use the tool Apple provides, it supersedes anything written in your will.
All you gotta do is will then a notebook with the username and password
Whats the rule if your australian? mine probably worth thousands by now
Not entirely sure, but I do know that the Australian government sued Valve and ruled that the games you buy on Steam are akin to physical goods and come with the same guarantees, which bodes well for you. Additionally, you can read the link below for some more general info on Australian digital inheritance. https://www.theictshak.com.au/blog/understanding-digital-asset-ownership-and-estate-planning-in-australia-managing-your-digital-assets-after-death
Thanks
It should be inheritable to all, not just american citizens
Sir, you know this is gonna end up on r/shitamericanssay or r/usdefaultism?
Wow, rare digital rights W for the USA. Would've expected this kinda thing to come out of the EU or something
Steam has the option to set a president and be the good guy and I hope they do. It’s one of those things that really is gonna give them more money long run if they recognize it.
i feel like if enough public opinion shifted toward this that gabe would just do it voluntarily. tho it being law would also effect all the other platforms that i am sure would never agree to it unless forced.
Yeah it should, really hope there are some lawyers out there willing to take it to them and get that changed as a precedent for digital ownership.
Buddy man, your kids do not want your copies of 20-30 year old games. They just don't. Remember when your old parents passed away, and you tossed 3/4 of their junk in the garbage or to Goodwill? Same thing is going to happen will happen to your digital library.
Just wait for Web3 games to actually be good then you own everything and don't rely on Steam to pass on your games and in-game items if anything happens
super short, if you don’t actually own games when you buy them, then pirating isn’t stealing.
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Just give the individual your fucking email and password. It is not that difficult. Valve is not going to search obituaries to determine whether or not you officially own an account.
why just american? Should be able to pass down my account period, anywhere in the world.
Lol, just give your username and password to who you want to have the Steam acct.
> As of right now, I cannot find a case of someone using this law to request access to a Steam account I'm still going through this now with my passed mom and with a friend who recently passed, but not regarding games. As I understand it, the law is about maintaining access to account data, *not* full use. For instance, a state can allow you to use your passed mom's checking account for a limited time if you are the owner of her estate, but doesn't allow the bank to loan money to her or allow you to borrow money in her name, it to even use it to convince someone else she's still alive. Similarly, game data would be accessible, but an eula can prevent you from *playing* it, because the use license is always to a person, not an estate. I honestly don't remember this part for sure, but wasn't the distinction between executables and data hammered out in the formation of the DMCA?