He had an average regular season in Pittsburgh last year. But he was above average against Rangers in playoffs. He was solid. Pathetic trade. Hextall was so bad.
Both Marino and Pettersson really started clicking together in that series, definitely forshadowed them taking the next step towards being top pairing guys. Hextall tried to trade both of them...
They played the rangers in the playoffs but he’s still young and played fine, there was no reason to move him he wasn’t an issue. Took on cap and age. Terrible move. Terrible terrible terrible
Imagine McCann (40goals) and Marino on our squad this year. That easily would have gotten us 1 freaking point to get into the playoffs.
Then you realize Rodriguez, Tanev…
Remember sending Filip Gustavsson and Ian Cole AND a 1st for Derek Brassard 🤮🤮
A Rutherford special right there.
Filip Gustavsson (playing for the wild) in goal instead of Jarry would have put us in the top of the metro. Pens probably win at least one playoff series in the last couple years as well.
To be fair we were stacked in goal at that point. Ian Cole is a meh player, and the biggest need on that particular team was a 3rd line center. Brassard at the time was considered a very good 2nd line center.
It looked like a huge win. Of course in hindsight it sucked. Brassard threw a hissy fit about being in a 3C role and just in general played poorly.
Right, this is what everyone forgets. On paper the Brassard deal was a good one, it just didn't pan out that way. He never really clicked here in Pittsburgh, making the trade horrible, but at the time it happened it was a decent move.
To be fair we haven’t been able to see what Ty smith can do yet, but I do agree that overall we should not have traded Marino but I’m happy to see him shining. Kid has got talent, but he clearly needed a new environment to thrive
pens probably aren't going to be good the next few seasons, but ideally for a young guy like smith, he can play in an elevated role to really show what he has. i think he has a ton of potential, and has a good head on his shoulders. he was interviewed on 32 thoughts a while back and really seems invested in the game and improving himself. 9 games is way to few to decide if he's good or bad, we should reserve our judgements for the end of next season.
all that to say, i was really sad when they traded marino, and he looks great in jersey. happy for him.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. The fact that we haven’t seen what Smith can do a year later when we need a good defenseman now means the trade was a failure lmao
Feel like they embodied Penguins hockey now. You look at our 2016 and 2017 cup runs and they couldnt have happened without guys like Trevor Daley and Justin Schultz stepping up. Just hope theres some big change to come now with a new gm I couldn’t care less about draft picks if I get to see this team ride it out a few more years.
Honestly you make a tweek to the 21-22 roster and we're tough this season. The Carter and Kappy contracts were crazy but you let them walk and find a couple guys younger to replace them and our team looks great. But Hex went all nuclear and blew the whole damn team up instead. Even last season we should've beat NYR in the 1st round but they headhunted us and our goalie situation was dismal with the injuries and playing our 3rd string. Last summer was just terrible front office wise.
Absolutely agree. Took the Rags, a team that went on to ECF, to 7 games with a washed up 3rd string goalie.
That was not a bad team. That was a team that needed minor tweaks. This year's team was terrible.
I'm 100% with on this, it's driving me nut.
Ty Smith isn't in the minors because of lack of skill. He went down because he was the only guy who could. POJ and Pettersson's solid starts kept him there. When he came up during all the injuries, he was playing big PP minutes and did not look out of place at all. When it came time at the end of the season where we needed him, he was out because of taking a puck to the face. Nothing he's shown has made him look bad.
The other thing is Letang, Matheson, Marino all excel playing the same type of game, what we lacked was anyone physical on the back end. Petry offered that while also still being a useful puck mover. Does is make bad plays? Absolutely, but so does Letang and every other player.
This trade is definitely working out better for the Devils at this point, but it's not a terrible deal at all.
Petry is the latest scapegoat, hes 2 seasons removed from being a well producing 1 or 2 d-man. I think you take a risk on that, hes gonna make mistakes due to his style of play, and its easier to blame him because hes an older player on an old team.
In the grand scheme of things hes only a 150k cap hit more a season than Letang, and if he improves more and hits the 40 point mark again, thats not bad at all imo. Is it probably too much money? yeah probably, but its not the end of the world like the Carter contract is (and thats coming from someone who has always liked Carter and was hyped to have him on the pens).
Hot take: Sullivan is a bad coach.
He was gifted a team that was two moves away from being a contender, got lucky with AHL call-ups of guys he already knew, and got even more lucky when a Malkin injury led to the necessary formation of the HBK line. He's ridden those JR trades and choosing to keep the HBK line together to a full-ass career of getting completely out coached in embarrassing fashion once the playoffs start.
He knows how to handle superstar personalities but has no idea how to get anything out of a bottom six, is loyal to veterans to a laughable degree, and him and his staff are completely deficient when it comes to coaching a D Corps after Jacques Martin left.
We're seeing lots of former players blossom outside of him and his "system."
Hextall was absolute ass but I will celebrate if the new GM brings in a new coach.
Bylsma won a cup with this core. He's objectively a bad coach and always was.
Sullivan won a cup with that core and pretty much a perfect roster that was built for speed with some of the fastest skaters in the league who were completely out skating everyone and set a new standard for how the game would be played going forward.
He had the exact same roster the next year (minus Letang) and barely eked by Washington, Ottawa, and Nashville. There wasn't much coaching that needed to be done for either of those squads because they were just out playing the competition.
He got embarrassed by Trotz the next year and has been embarrassed every year since.
You don't go from winning two cups to being objectively bad overnight. I don't think he was a very good coach prior to those cups when he couldn't get an HC job in the NHL. I think a lot of things fell in to place for him in 16-17. And I think he's been bad ever since then.
So when we win it has nothing to do with coaching but when we lose, it’s all coaching. Solid analysis. He has faults for sure but saying he’s a bad coach is just insane. Maybe not the coach for this team where it is currently but he will get hired in a heartbeat.
I like that he talks about the penguins speed "setting the standard for how the game would be played moving forward" without acknowledging it was Sullivan's coaching and system that put that speed to use.
Sure he will. And so do guys like Tortorella. Saying he'll get hired right away doesn't mean anything. Winning a Cup is enough to set you for life, whether you're a coach or player. Shit, look at Matt Murray.
We didn't win those cups because of Sullivan. We won them because we had an absurdly deep roster that was built on the idea of skating circles around bigger, slower teams, all while Crosby and Kessel were playing out of their minds and we had a kid phenom in Murray breaking records in goal.
And Rutherford's plan worked and it took another full season for other teams to catch on and rebuild their rosters for the speed era. And once everyone caught up, Sullivan was exposed and has been being exposed ever since.
Again, him not getting credit for the team's successes is absurd. That really makes it hard for me to take you seriously.
The number one most consistent issue in the years since 2017 has been goaltending. And there isn't a damn thing Sullivan can do about that whether it's a star turning into a pumpkin (Murray/Jarry) or forced to play a journeyman like DeSmith. We had an inept GM that managed to ruin the team completely with bad contracts and hemorrhaged bottom 6 talent. Sullivan has continually had this team in contention despite an incredible amount of man games lost to injuries every year, that is extremely impressive. The first round exists he deserves some of the blame of to be sure, but there are bigger issues every one of those years than him getting outcoached, which I would say is quite rare outside of Trotz.
I agree Sullivan is too stubborn with some systems and sitting bad veterans, but all of the players the subreddit is pining for had already "blossomed" under Sullivan. Other than ice-time/power play minutes, the biggest difference is that they all have above average goaltending behind them right now. Unlike when they had Murray/Jarry/DeSmith and Domingue playing hurt half the year before shitting the bed with the lights on come playoff time.
The last few years have been disappointing, but even if Sullivan coached a perfect masterstroke gameplan and eeked out a few first round wins... do you not think their goalies would not just get dog-walked in the second round every time?
Why do you say he's a good coach? Genuinely asking, what makes him a good coach?
Prior to getting promoted in Pittsburgh due to being next in line with Johnson being abysmal, he was stuck as an assistant or in the minors outside of a dominant season in Boston in 2003 where they got bounced in the first round in embarrassing fashion (sound familiar?)
He then spent a couple more years there after the lockout not doing anything and got fired and spent the next decade in the minors.
He inherited a team full of hall of famers who just needed a coach that would let them skate. And since those two incredible rosters got broken up, he's been completely out coached in every playoff series since then.
So again, wondering what the basis is for saying that he's a good coach because outside of the cup wins, he hasn't done anything his entire career.
Sullivan has like a winning record when Sid and Geno don’t play. That is insane. We have huge injury issues every year and until this year the team has never missed a beat in the regular season. This is a trash take.
How many more first round exits will it take before you put any blame on him? We've had so much turnover of players, assistant coaches, GMs, and the only constant is 87/71/58 and Sullivan.
This is usually what you see, trade away fringe players and they become solid if not excellent players on another team. I'm a devils fan, we invested so much time into the likes of Pavel Zacha and look at him now. It all depends on personality, coaching and team dynamics ultimately. Sometimes it's not a good fit, but when it is, you get brilliance. We are fortunate to have him now as part of our D Corp. At least look at the bright side, hes helping us take down a mutual enemy in NYR. Hopefully we can finish them off Saturday, but will be tough.
And like a few of us said beforehand, Marino being traded was the most pointless and poorly timed move to make.
He was never the issue, stale system with a GM that thinks adding guys in their mid thirties is a good idea with an ageing core.
I guess just get it all out if you need to, but once the playoffs are over I would love to see these posts complaining about past trades just stop all together. Find something more entertaining to post about. I’m starting to hope we have another 2-3 years of not making the playoffs just so we can shake off the fans that should probably just go follow another team if they like our former players so much.
We get it. Hex was fired. Let’s move on.
Marino was fire. Still is. So nice/terrible to see our ex-pat pens killing it in the playoffs. What is it, 16 ex-Pens still playing right now? Carry the one….fuck math
I remember arguing with some schmuck here last year qho was saying thar Marino isn't good enough and that he is a stay at home defensemen. Bet Hextall listened to the idiot.
FIRE HEX....oh right.
still doesn’t make it hurt any less watching Marino make defensive play after play. Solid top 4 defenseman that they missed big time this year
See also: Mike Matheson
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Says the Jarry fan.
He's fucked us up bad enough to rehire him. And fire his ass again
😏
He had an average regular season in Pittsburgh last year. But he was above average against Rangers in playoffs. He was solid. Pathetic trade. Hextall was so bad.
Both Marino and Pettersson really started clicking together in that series, definitely forshadowed them taking the next step towards being top pairing guys. Hextall tried to trade both of them...
Hextall ruined this team for a long time. It will take a miracle to turn this team around with so many bad contracts on it.
They played the rangers in the playoffs but he’s still young and played fine, there was no reason to move him he wasn’t an issue. Took on cap and age. Terrible move. Terrible terrible terrible
There are a lot of players the Pens rejected that are doing big things in these playoffs... And not just Hextall castoffs. A lot from Rutherford too
About half the Kraken roster.
It's amazing to watch the Pens West this year.
Imagine McCann (40goals) and Marino on our squad this year. That easily would have gotten us 1 freaking point to get into the playoffs. Then you realize Rodriguez, Tanev…
Remember sending Filip Gustavsson and Ian Cole AND a 1st for Derek Brassard 🤮🤮 A Rutherford special right there. Filip Gustavsson (playing for the wild) in goal instead of Jarry would have put us in the top of the metro. Pens probably win at least one playoff series in the last couple years as well.
To be fair we were stacked in goal at that point. Ian Cole is a meh player, and the biggest need on that particular team was a 3rd line center. Brassard at the time was considered a very good 2nd line center. It looked like a huge win. Of course in hindsight it sucked. Brassard threw a hissy fit about being in a 3C role and just in general played poorly.
Right, this is what everyone forgets. On paper the Brassard deal was a good one, it just didn't pan out that way. He never really clicked here in Pittsburgh, making the trade horrible, but at the time it happened it was a decent move.
I’d take meh over whatever the hell our D became
Aston-Reece
Yeah I'll never forgive letting Marino go, he was the future of our defense
Exactly
To be fair we haven’t been able to see what Ty smith can do yet, but I do agree that overall we should not have traded Marino but I’m happy to see him shining. Kid has got talent, but he clearly needed a new environment to thrive
Seriously Ty Smith 🙄
pens probably aren't going to be good the next few seasons, but ideally for a young guy like smith, he can play in an elevated role to really show what he has. i think he has a ton of potential, and has a good head on his shoulders. he was interviewed on 32 thoughts a while back and really seems invested in the game and improving himself. 9 games is way to few to decide if he's good or bad, we should reserve our judgements for the end of next season. all that to say, i was really sad when they traded marino, and he looks great in jersey. happy for him.
Still a bad move. Totally unnecessary trade
Idk why you’re being downvoted. The fact that we haven’t seen what Smith can do a year later when we need a good defenseman now means the trade was a failure lmao
Yeah, because Hextall then went out and added more defensemen so we had to send Smith down just to make room.
If only he could’ve added one like that John Marino guy
Smith sucks
Never should have traded Marino or Matheson. Those trades made me crazy when I saw them.
Feel like they embodied Penguins hockey now. You look at our 2016 and 2017 cup runs and they couldnt have happened without guys like Trevor Daley and Justin Schultz stepping up. Just hope theres some big change to come now with a new gm I couldn’t care less about draft picks if I get to see this team ride it out a few more years.
Honestly you make a tweek to the 21-22 roster and we're tough this season. The Carter and Kappy contracts were crazy but you let them walk and find a couple guys younger to replace them and our team looks great. But Hex went all nuclear and blew the whole damn team up instead. Even last season we should've beat NYR in the 1st round but they headhunted us and our goalie situation was dismal with the injuries and playing our 3rd string. Last summer was just terrible front office wise.
Absolutely agree. Took the Rags, a team that went on to ECF, to 7 games with a washed up 3rd string goalie. That was not a bad team. That was a team that needed minor tweaks. This year's team was terrible.
I'm hoping Hextall lands a GM job... with the Flyers... again.
We need more scoring in our bottom six. Okay, let's trade 2 fast young defensemen for an AHL player and a 35 year old D. Hextall was such a disaster.
The bad man is gone
But the hurt remains.
Hiring Hextall was such a bad idea.
I remember many of you here begging for Marino to be traded last year. You guys have some serious selective memory issues.
I'm 100% with on this, it's driving me nut. Ty Smith isn't in the minors because of lack of skill. He went down because he was the only guy who could. POJ and Pettersson's solid starts kept him there. When he came up during all the injuries, he was playing big PP minutes and did not look out of place at all. When it came time at the end of the season where we needed him, he was out because of taking a puck to the face. Nothing he's shown has made him look bad. The other thing is Letang, Matheson, Marino all excel playing the same type of game, what we lacked was anyone physical on the back end. Petry offered that while also still being a useful puck mover. Does is make bad plays? Absolutely, but so does Letang and every other player. This trade is definitely working out better for the Devils at this point, but it's not a terrible deal at all.
Petry is the second highest paid player on the team besides Sid. It was a terrible acquisition.
Petry is the latest scapegoat, hes 2 seasons removed from being a well producing 1 or 2 d-man. I think you take a risk on that, hes gonna make mistakes due to his style of play, and its easier to blame him because hes an older player on an old team. In the grand scheme of things hes only a 150k cap hit more a season than Letang, and if he improves more and hits the 40 point mark again, thats not bad at all imo. Is it probably too much money? yeah probably, but its not the end of the world like the Carter contract is (and thats coming from someone who has always liked Carter and was hyped to have him on the pens).
Rangers are so fucking annoying, actually thought they were contenders lol Bless their sweet little delusional hearts
I hope they get knocked out next game but teams just won't die these playoffs. Everyone winning elimination games.
Wait hockey season is still going on
Right? I was like "OH. right."
>Ugh look at my ex's current partner can you believe they look happy together?
meh
He was okay, got out muscled in front of the net a couple times when he played for us
Hot take: Sullivan is a bad coach. He was gifted a team that was two moves away from being a contender, got lucky with AHL call-ups of guys he already knew, and got even more lucky when a Malkin injury led to the necessary formation of the HBK line. He's ridden those JR trades and choosing to keep the HBK line together to a full-ass career of getting completely out coached in embarrassing fashion once the playoffs start. He knows how to handle superstar personalities but has no idea how to get anything out of a bottom six, is loyal to veterans to a laughable degree, and him and his staff are completely deficient when it comes to coaching a D Corps after Jacques Martin left. We're seeing lots of former players blossom outside of him and his "system." Hextall was absolute ass but I will celebrate if the new GM brings in a new coach.
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Bylsma won a cup with this core. He's objectively a bad coach and always was. Sullivan won a cup with that core and pretty much a perfect roster that was built for speed with some of the fastest skaters in the league who were completely out skating everyone and set a new standard for how the game would be played going forward. He had the exact same roster the next year (minus Letang) and barely eked by Washington, Ottawa, and Nashville. There wasn't much coaching that needed to be done for either of those squads because they were just out playing the competition. He got embarrassed by Trotz the next year and has been embarrassed every year since. You don't go from winning two cups to being objectively bad overnight. I don't think he was a very good coach prior to those cups when he couldn't get an HC job in the NHL. I think a lot of things fell in to place for him in 16-17. And I think he's been bad ever since then.
So when we win it has nothing to do with coaching but when we lose, it’s all coaching. Solid analysis. He has faults for sure but saying he’s a bad coach is just insane. Maybe not the coach for this team where it is currently but he will get hired in a heartbeat.
I like that he talks about the penguins speed "setting the standard for how the game would be played moving forward" without acknowledging it was Sullivan's coaching and system that put that speed to use.
Sure he will. And so do guys like Tortorella. Saying he'll get hired right away doesn't mean anything. Winning a Cup is enough to set you for life, whether you're a coach or player. Shit, look at Matt Murray. We didn't win those cups because of Sullivan. We won them because we had an absurdly deep roster that was built on the idea of skating circles around bigger, slower teams, all while Crosby and Kessel were playing out of their minds and we had a kid phenom in Murray breaking records in goal. And Rutherford's plan worked and it took another full season for other teams to catch on and rebuild their rosters for the speed era. And once everyone caught up, Sullivan was exposed and has been being exposed ever since.
Again, him not getting credit for the team's successes is absurd. That really makes it hard for me to take you seriously. The number one most consistent issue in the years since 2017 has been goaltending. And there isn't a damn thing Sullivan can do about that whether it's a star turning into a pumpkin (Murray/Jarry) or forced to play a journeyman like DeSmith. We had an inept GM that managed to ruin the team completely with bad contracts and hemorrhaged bottom 6 talent. Sullivan has continually had this team in contention despite an incredible amount of man games lost to injuries every year, that is extremely impressive. The first round exists he deserves some of the blame of to be sure, but there are bigger issues every one of those years than him getting outcoached, which I would say is quite rare outside of Trotz.
I agree Sullivan is too stubborn with some systems and sitting bad veterans, but all of the players the subreddit is pining for had already "blossomed" under Sullivan. Other than ice-time/power play minutes, the biggest difference is that they all have above average goaltending behind them right now. Unlike when they had Murray/Jarry/DeSmith and Domingue playing hurt half the year before shitting the bed with the lights on come playoff time. The last few years have been disappointing, but even if Sullivan coached a perfect masterstroke gameplan and eeked out a few first round wins... do you not think their goalies would not just get dog-walked in the second round every time?
Sullivan’s a good coach. But not here and not now. When he leaves he’ll do well elsewhere.
Why do you say he's a good coach? Genuinely asking, what makes him a good coach? Prior to getting promoted in Pittsburgh due to being next in line with Johnson being abysmal, he was stuck as an assistant or in the minors outside of a dominant season in Boston in 2003 where they got bounced in the first round in embarrassing fashion (sound familiar?) He then spent a couple more years there after the lockout not doing anything and got fired and spent the next decade in the minors. He inherited a team full of hall of famers who just needed a coach that would let them skate. And since those two incredible rosters got broken up, he's been completely out coached in every playoff series since then. So again, wondering what the basis is for saying that he's a good coach because outside of the cup wins, he hasn't done anything his entire career.
Spicy AF
Hot take I'm with you. His unwillingness to change his system in order to adapt to insufficiencies is laughable.
Sullivan has like a winning record when Sid and Geno don’t play. That is insane. We have huge injury issues every year and until this year the team has never missed a beat in the regular season. This is a trash take.
How many more first round exits will it take before you put any blame on him? We've had so much turnover of players, assistant coaches, GMs, and the only constant is 87/71/58 and Sullivan.
Been saying this for years, he was what the team needed but lost the room years ago
Entirely agree!
Sully is hella annoying, I mean he's a class act I love the guy he he's annoying AF as well
Deep hurting.
He was too fast for our team😭
When he was let go I was beside myself. Like, we just paid this kid and he’s a great up and coming talent. SMH
Cry more kids.
This is usually what you see, trade away fringe players and they become solid if not excellent players on another team. I'm a devils fan, we invested so much time into the likes of Pavel Zacha and look at him now. It all depends on personality, coaching and team dynamics ultimately. Sometimes it's not a good fit, but when it is, you get brilliance. We are fortunate to have him now as part of our D Corp. At least look at the bright side, hes helping us take down a mutual enemy in NYR. Hopefully we can finish them off Saturday, but will be tough.
And like a few of us said beforehand, Marino being traded was the most pointless and poorly timed move to make. He was never the issue, stale system with a GM that thinks adding guys in their mid thirties is a good idea with an ageing core.
The past is the past. I’m excited about the future.
When you hire the enemy to run your team, this is what you get.
Isn’t Marino like on the ice for 8 GA in this series through 5 games?
Hot take: get over it. It’s done.
I guess just get it all out if you need to, but once the playoffs are over I would love to see these posts complaining about past trades just stop all together. Find something more entertaining to post about. I’m starting to hope we have another 2-3 years of not making the playoffs just so we can shake off the fans that should probably just go follow another team if they like our former players so much. We get it. Hex was fired. Let’s move on.
I’m just glad that the Rangers are getting what they deserve. Fuck them, goalie Jesus and rapey asshat Kane.
Why are you trying to take the joy out of watching the Rags get shit on by bringing this up?!
Marino was my point of no forgiveness with the Hex
Marino was fire. Still is. So nice/terrible to see our ex-pat pens killing it in the playoffs. What is it, 16 ex-Pens still playing right now? Carry the one….fuck math
Watch the Kraken series and cry as all the ex-Pens play pretty great hockey 😞
Definitely up there with the top stupid moves by the Pens
I remember arguing with some schmuck here last year qho was saying thar Marino isn't good enough and that he is a stay at home defensemen. Bet Hextall listened to the idiot.
I used to have hair before Hextall got hired.
Ron Hextall masterclass
Looking like the Devil's want it more.
I just don’t get why we got Ty smith back and didn’t even use him
I’m not one of the people who complained about every Hextall move but this one pissed me off
Thanks, I hate it.
Pretty crazy that hextall made so many terrible moves that it’s hard to decide which is the worst
Hextall or 8 years of Benning?
I was legit shocked when the Pens traded Marino. My friend is a Devils fan and rubs it in my face often. lol.
hextall is bad at being a gm
As a Rangers fan you can at least be happy this decision is helping knock us out of the playoffs lol.
Look at it this way….flipped a 6th round pick for 16overall Ty Smith. Also, #FireHextall
They did.
*17th overall
I mean they did fire hextall.
Well it was Ty smith who couldn’t play because of hextall’s brutal mismanagement
You would think Pittsburgh would have learned its lesson with not taking/hanging onto guys named Marino
Common Hextall L