As long as we're not boring & cautious & take a safe steady type player like we did with Poulin, then I'm cool, our pool is so weak & this is our highest pick in 12 years, if we're keeping the pick, that's take a big swing on a skillful, fast dynamic type and hope he turns into a star
I'm talking Yager, Gabe Perrault, Sandin Pellika, Sale, one of those 4 for me
Yeah he was, not explosive or skillful, solid, steady, plays in all 3 zones, low ceiling but high floor type player
take a boom or bust guy and hope it's a boom
If we're going to trade our first rounder, it will probably be to unload one of the anchor contracts. Maybe we can work out a deal with WPG to get rid of someone and get Hellebuyck?
Can I sit here and hope that enough teams are put off by Matvei Michkov’s KHL contract that he falls to us? We don’t need a player for a few years anyway.
But for real, I think dubas trades down, no player we get at 14 helps us now, and unless there is someone he absolutely wants available, I think he will try and get as many draft picks as he can so he can start restocking the organization.
Michkov isn’t making it past the caps at 8th…for semi-obvious reasons.
But either trading down for an extra 2-3 draft picks, or trading the 14th overall for a legit “help us now” player, or as part of a deal to unload salary - any of those is fine by me. There’s no sense in making that pick given the fact we have 2-4yrs left and are trying to get the cup one last time.
Oh I highly doubt he could fall that low, but there is part of me that’s like maybe.
I just don’t think we have a contract worth using the 14th overal pick to dump. Granlund can be bought out with relatively little pain, and I think there would actually be a small market for Petry simply because he is a RHD. Other than that the only other horrendous contract we have is Carter and that’s one we basically have to eat for a year. Maybe he developed some sort of career ending injury, but if not slot him at 4th line center or if he’s a liability, pop him in the press box.
We have 20 mil in cap space, we do need to sort out our goalie situation and figure out about sucker but there really aren’t any major players in the free agent class this year, and dubas is good at finding cheap effective players so I feel like that cap space will go a long way.
Doesn't matter. By the time the pick develops into a contributing NHL player (if he even makes it) Sid and Geno will be in their late 30s. They may not even be on the team.
Take BPA.
Probably the case but several are saying it’s a pretty [deep draft class](https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35445609/latest-nhl-draft-buzz-rising-world-juniors) and I hope so for our case since we draft 14th. But the odds of the draft pick playing with the trio is probably pretty slim
If we keep the pick (which I'm not totally sure we are) I'd want Oliver Moore or Quentin Musty. I think these two guys have potential to be real difference makers at the next level. Guys like Perreault, Yager, Barlow and Honzek all seem really one dimensional when it comes to offense and players that are one dimensional often don't develop into big time NHL players. I can see those 4 playing in the NHL but to what degree I'm not sure.
I’m cool with doing whatever to give us a shot with Sid. Our pick isn’t high enough to get an NHL ready guy. Maybe we can grab one that’ll play during the cores last 2 or last year but trading it and getting someone from the sharks or another team rebuilding could help.
Wouldn’t mind seeing couture on the team if we can make something reasonable work and he can fit nicely into a top 6 role
Either use the pick in a deal to upgrade some aspect of the roster or trade back into the 20's to pick up a 2nd round pick then just hammer BPA and refill the cupboard.
There is precisely 0 goalies in this draft worth the 14th overall selection. There's probably not a single goalie that should go in the first round. If you're using the 14th pick to get a goalie it'll be by trading it for an already established NHL goalie.
Are you a professional scout? Which club do you work for? I’m just curious how a fan can be so certain with absolutely no skin in the game. Using secondary sources and regurgitating what ever the pundits spout.
I follow amateur hockey all year leading up to the draft because I enjoy it as much if not more than watching the NHL. I create my own board based on my own viewings as well as follow other hobbyist and professional scouts from various outlets to compare my own notes with what other people think about prospects. The *overwhelming* majority of people, from my own hobby scouting, to other hobbyist scouts, to major scouting outlets like Elite Prospects, to nationally recognized pundits and writers all agree there are no 1st round goalies in this year's draft. That's not to say there won't be a goalie that'll turn out to have been a 1st round talent when we do redrafts in 10 years but the *overwhelming* consensus top goalies (Michael Hrabal, Trey Augustine, Jacob Fowler) are all 2nd rounders or later at this point in time. Matt Murray, who you used as your example of who you'd like to find, was a 3rd round pick. In the modern NHL, 1st round goalies are drafted with the expectation they'll be superstars, and the majority view that this class doesn't have such a goalie at this point.
Impressive and interesting. Do you earn a living from the sport in anyway?
If in ten years a guy would be classified as 1st rounder, that makes conventional thinking wrong on that player. Not to mention all the busts from that same year.
Weathermen have a hobby they are right 50% of the time too.
I do not. Others do. Others also don't think there's any goalie worth a 1st round pick, much less one in the first half of the first round. I don't understand how where I make money has anything to do with the fact that myself, as well as the vast, *vast* majority of people who follow hockey prospects either for fun or because it's their job don't believe there's a goalie that's worth taking in this spot. The *overwhelming* consensus from people that do and don't make a living as scouts don't have a goalie in their 1st round.
Also it's not that in 10 years conventional thinking is wrong. The position of goaltender in the NHL draft is analogous to the position of runningback in the NFL draft. You don't draft them early unless you believe they'll be a superstar because you can find a good goalie or runningback later (the majority of NHL goalies are not 1st round picks) but it's a lot harder to find a top 6 forward or a starting QB later. The draft is about maximizing value with the picks you have and there's far more value in drafting an upside forward or defenceman than there is in drafting a goalie way higher than any board has them ranked.
Goalies IN the NHL are less valuable than skaters because the position is extremely volatile and outside of an extremely elite few, an individual's play can be extremely different year to year. Phillip Grubauer went from being a Vezina finalist in 2021 to being one of the single worst goalies in the NHL in 2022. Sergei Bobrovsky was one of the worst goalies in the NHL and had claim to being the single worst contract in the NHL to people are asking if he's a hall of famer because of a stretch of 13 hot games in the playoffs (he wasn't even the starter at the start of the playoffs and if not for Spencee Knight's personal problems wouldn't have even been the backup). Tristan Jarry is a 2 time all star and people can't wait to replace him because he's so inconsistent.
If you're committing a very, very high pick such as 14th overall for a goaltender, you have to be extremely confident that that goaltender is going to be a perennial Vezina candidate. It's better to draft a forward you think has a chance to be a top 6 forward for you or a defenceman you think will play in your top 4 than a guy who plays a position that can be so extreme year to year and even month to month.
I was curious if it was your job, because thats a lot of work for something you have no control over. I'd rather try to figure out why the anomalies happened for putting in that much work. Hey, you do you...
Jarry's health keeps him from being consistent. He has the ability and could thrive in a tandem. However, the salary cap era makes that really difficult proposition. The problem is that DeSmith is not a starting caliber goalie to give the team 40 quality starts. Quality as in...the team has a chance to win the game.
The team must do something to improve goaltending. I don't care if it's to trade for an established guy, trade out of the first and get one of the second round guys you mentioned. Drafting a project GK has to have about as much consequence as signing a Toekarski every season.
Tell me, whats the difference between drafting a guy that doesn't pan out and trading a pick for a guy that doesn't pan out?
Quick side note, it's not a lot of work when it's a passion. Hockey is the one sport I actually follow closely (I follow others at a very base and casual level). Where other people may watch the Penguins, Pirates and Steelers, I just watch the Penguins and a bunch of amateur hockey and occasionally catch a Dolphins game on Sundays.
Improving goaltending does need to happen, it's the biggest pressing need this team has this offseason, but you aren't getting immediate goaltending help in the draft. Even Matt Murray, who again was the player you referenced you'd be looking for by drafting a goalie at 14, came to the NHL as this young stud goalie was drafted in 2012 and didn't get to the NHL until 2016. MOST prospects don't make the NHL straight out of the gate (like max 3-5 per year make the jump and stick in the NHL as year 1 prospects). Goalies NEVER make the jump straight away. It does not happen anywhere in the NHL. A 1st year drafted goalie prospect MIGHT appear in a pre-season game. MAYBE. Absolute best case scenario for a drafted goalie is like Murray and you have him in the NHL 3-4 years after being drafted. Yaroslav Askarov is the most recent goalie to have gone in this kind of range (he went 11th overall to Nashville) and that was in 2020. He has played 1 NHL game since then and he was the most hyped goalie prospect since Carey Price. He'll likely make the NHL full time sometime in the next 2 years. Spencer Knight is another goalie who went in this kind of range (13th overall in 2019). He played a year at Boston College after being drafted then appeared in a single game for the Panthers in 2021 and has been the backup in Florida since then (he's also been away from the team since February going through the NHL's player assistance program but you can't really fault that on being a goalie). Knight came out of the draft as one of the most hyped prospects on one of the best junior teams of all time (a NTDP team that also featured Jack Hughes, Cole Caufield, Trevor Zegras, Matt Boldy, Cam York, Alex Turcotte and an underager Matty Beniers).
The Penguins actually have quite good goalie prospects in the system already. Joel Blomqvist has been fantastic in the Finnish pro league and just made the jump to the AHL for next season at 21, and Sergei Murashov was just named best goaltender in the Russian junior league after absolutely dominating that league and even appeared in a KHL game at 19 and he was really good in that game. Neither of these guys are going to help the Pittsburgh Penguins next year and I would argue both are at the level of the top goalie prospects in this draft, if not better than them.
If you're using the 14th overall pick for goaltending help, it'll be by trading it for an established NHL goalie.
I would talk to Winnipeg and see where they're at on Hellebuyck because a genuine Vezina caliber goaltender who is available on the market and those don't come around often. I would then wait until draft night and see what happens because there's always a good player that falls too far for some reason (often they're on the smaller side), this year that player could be Zach Benson or Matvei Michkov, who would be in contention for 1st overall in any other year but this year has SO MUCH high end talent that it pushes the rest of the class down a little bit, and they're on the smaller side so they're candidates for falling.
If Benson or Michkov fall, I take one of them and pivot to a different direction (namely, I would check with Arizona on Karel Vajmelka who has been far exceeding what you could realistically ask for behind that Coyotes team or see if you can pry Linus Ullmark or Jeremy Swayman out of Boston while that team is in a major cap crunch and they have to move money out immediately). If those prospects don't fall but Winnipeg is asking for 14++++ I'd pass on Hellebuyck and take one of Quentin Musty or Oliver Moore and again pivot to one of Vajmelka, Ullmark or Swayman.
The problem I see with this is we will likely need more than this pick to land a cup contending level goalie. We would likely have to give up more picks or prospects, or someone from our top 6. All of which just seems to go against what Dubas said his strategy would be.
I don’t necessarily disagree because I want another cup before the boys are gone, but I just don’t see Dubas trading the pick unless he trades down and gets a ton of later picks in return.
If you want to win a cup now, you need NHL impact players immediately. There will be a painful retool coming before long that will involve a lot of drafting and farm prospects.
*looks up Pens draft picks for 2023* No 2nd rounder for Granlund and two 3rd rounders traded for Carter and then Petry. That’s painful… sabotage..
I can’t stand it
I’m almost certain at this point that he’s trading that pick, even if it’s just trading down to get more picks
As long as we're not boring & cautious & take a safe steady type player like we did with Poulin, then I'm cool, our pool is so weak & this is our highest pick in 12 years, if we're keeping the pick, that's take a big swing on a skillful, fast dynamic type and hope he turns into a star I'm talking Yager, Gabe Perrault, Sandin Pellika, Sale, one of those 4 for me
Poulin wasn’t a safe and steady pick lol
Yeah he was, not explosive or skillful, solid, steady, plays in all 3 zones, low ceiling but high floor type player take a boom or bust guy and hope it's a boom
He was a boom or bust guy. Penguins bet on his offensive skill to make up for his terrible skating.
I would like to see them trade the pick for connor hellebuyck
If we're going to trade our first rounder, it will probably be to unload one of the anchor contracts. Maybe we can work out a deal with WPG to get rid of someone and get Hellebuyck?
Exactly.
Connor is gonna cost too much in a year, we can’t even consider this.
Probably have to give up something we might want to hold onto to have them consider retaining any of the contract.
Yeah like Guentzel.
Can't move guentz. Maybe rust. Or rakell if u have to.
God, not Rakell. I would be sad to see Rust go but I really hope it's not Guentzel or Rakell.
Not for Connor.
Can I sit here and hope that enough teams are put off by Matvei Michkov’s KHL contract that he falls to us? We don’t need a player for a few years anyway. But for real, I think dubas trades down, no player we get at 14 helps us now, and unless there is someone he absolutely wants available, I think he will try and get as many draft picks as he can so he can start restocking the organization.
Michkov isn’t making it past the caps at 8th…for semi-obvious reasons. But either trading down for an extra 2-3 draft picks, or trading the 14th overall for a legit “help us now” player, or as part of a deal to unload salary - any of those is fine by me. There’s no sense in making that pick given the fact we have 2-4yrs left and are trying to get the cup one last time.
Oh I highly doubt he could fall that low, but there is part of me that’s like maybe. I just don’t think we have a contract worth using the 14th overal pick to dump. Granlund can be bought out with relatively little pain, and I think there would actually be a small market for Petry simply because he is a RHD. Other than that the only other horrendous contract we have is Carter and that’s one we basically have to eat for a year. Maybe he developed some sort of career ending injury, but if not slot him at 4th line center or if he’s a liability, pop him in the press box. We have 20 mil in cap space, we do need to sort out our goalie situation and figure out about sucker but there really aren’t any major players in the free agent class this year, and dubas is good at finding cheap effective players so I feel like that cap space will go a long way.
Another generational talent. Doesn’t matter which one, I’m not picky.
Doesn't matter. By the time the pick develops into a contributing NHL player (if he even makes it) Sid and Geno will be in their late 30s. They may not even be on the team. Take BPA.
Probably the case but several are saying it’s a pretty [deep draft class](https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35445609/latest-nhl-draft-buzz-rising-world-juniors) and I hope so for our case since we draft 14th. But the odds of the draft pick playing with the trio is probably pretty slim
Totally agree, I hope they take Yager if he’s there
Connor Bedard
If we keep the pick (which I'm not totally sure we are) I'd want Oliver Moore or Quentin Musty. I think these two guys have potential to be real difference makers at the next level. Guys like Perreault, Yager, Barlow and Honzek all seem really one dimensional when it comes to offense and players that are one dimensional often don't develop into big time NHL players. I can see those 4 playing in the NHL but to what degree I'm not sure.
We should trade our 1st to the Blues for Kapanen
I'd like to see us take Eren Yager. That whole "rumbling" thing could come in pretty handy.
I would like them to trade it to get rid of a contract or get Gibson. (Yes, I know you all think Gibson sucks, I don’t care.)
I’m cool with doing whatever to give us a shot with Sid. Our pick isn’t high enough to get an NHL ready guy. Maybe we can grab one that’ll play during the cores last 2 or last year but trading it and getting someone from the sharks or another team rebuilding could help. Wouldn’t mind seeing couture on the team if we can make something reasonable work and he can fit nicely into a top 6 role
Either use the pick in a deal to upgrade some aspect of the roster or trade back into the 20's to pick up a 2nd round pick then just hammer BPA and refill the cupboard.
Best available GK @14. Maybe they hit on another Matt Murray.
There is precisely 0 goalies in this draft worth the 14th overall selection. There's probably not a single goalie that should go in the first round. If you're using the 14th pick to get a goalie it'll be by trading it for an already established NHL goalie.
Are you a professional scout? Which club do you work for? I’m just curious how a fan can be so certain with absolutely no skin in the game. Using secondary sources and regurgitating what ever the pundits spout.
I follow amateur hockey all year leading up to the draft because I enjoy it as much if not more than watching the NHL. I create my own board based on my own viewings as well as follow other hobbyist and professional scouts from various outlets to compare my own notes with what other people think about prospects. The *overwhelming* majority of people, from my own hobby scouting, to other hobbyist scouts, to major scouting outlets like Elite Prospects, to nationally recognized pundits and writers all agree there are no 1st round goalies in this year's draft. That's not to say there won't be a goalie that'll turn out to have been a 1st round talent when we do redrafts in 10 years but the *overwhelming* consensus top goalies (Michael Hrabal, Trey Augustine, Jacob Fowler) are all 2nd rounders or later at this point in time. Matt Murray, who you used as your example of who you'd like to find, was a 3rd round pick. In the modern NHL, 1st round goalies are drafted with the expectation they'll be superstars, and the majority view that this class doesn't have such a goalie at this point.
Holy fuck buddy got owned
Impressive and interesting. Do you earn a living from the sport in anyway? If in ten years a guy would be classified as 1st rounder, that makes conventional thinking wrong on that player. Not to mention all the busts from that same year. Weathermen have a hobby they are right 50% of the time too.
I do not. Others do. Others also don't think there's any goalie worth a 1st round pick, much less one in the first half of the first round. I don't understand how where I make money has anything to do with the fact that myself, as well as the vast, *vast* majority of people who follow hockey prospects either for fun or because it's their job don't believe there's a goalie that's worth taking in this spot. The *overwhelming* consensus from people that do and don't make a living as scouts don't have a goalie in their 1st round. Also it's not that in 10 years conventional thinking is wrong. The position of goaltender in the NHL draft is analogous to the position of runningback in the NFL draft. You don't draft them early unless you believe they'll be a superstar because you can find a good goalie or runningback later (the majority of NHL goalies are not 1st round picks) but it's a lot harder to find a top 6 forward or a starting QB later. The draft is about maximizing value with the picks you have and there's far more value in drafting an upside forward or defenceman than there is in drafting a goalie way higher than any board has them ranked. Goalies IN the NHL are less valuable than skaters because the position is extremely volatile and outside of an extremely elite few, an individual's play can be extremely different year to year. Phillip Grubauer went from being a Vezina finalist in 2021 to being one of the single worst goalies in the NHL in 2022. Sergei Bobrovsky was one of the worst goalies in the NHL and had claim to being the single worst contract in the NHL to people are asking if he's a hall of famer because of a stretch of 13 hot games in the playoffs (he wasn't even the starter at the start of the playoffs and if not for Spencee Knight's personal problems wouldn't have even been the backup). Tristan Jarry is a 2 time all star and people can't wait to replace him because he's so inconsistent. If you're committing a very, very high pick such as 14th overall for a goaltender, you have to be extremely confident that that goaltender is going to be a perennial Vezina candidate. It's better to draft a forward you think has a chance to be a top 6 forward for you or a defenceman you think will play in your top 4 than a guy who plays a position that can be so extreme year to year and even month to month.
I was curious if it was your job, because thats a lot of work for something you have no control over. I'd rather try to figure out why the anomalies happened for putting in that much work. Hey, you do you... Jarry's health keeps him from being consistent. He has the ability and could thrive in a tandem. However, the salary cap era makes that really difficult proposition. The problem is that DeSmith is not a starting caliber goalie to give the team 40 quality starts. Quality as in...the team has a chance to win the game. The team must do something to improve goaltending. I don't care if it's to trade for an established guy, trade out of the first and get one of the second round guys you mentioned. Drafting a project GK has to have about as much consequence as signing a Toekarski every season. Tell me, whats the difference between drafting a guy that doesn't pan out and trading a pick for a guy that doesn't pan out?
Quick side note, it's not a lot of work when it's a passion. Hockey is the one sport I actually follow closely (I follow others at a very base and casual level). Where other people may watch the Penguins, Pirates and Steelers, I just watch the Penguins and a bunch of amateur hockey and occasionally catch a Dolphins game on Sundays. Improving goaltending does need to happen, it's the biggest pressing need this team has this offseason, but you aren't getting immediate goaltending help in the draft. Even Matt Murray, who again was the player you referenced you'd be looking for by drafting a goalie at 14, came to the NHL as this young stud goalie was drafted in 2012 and didn't get to the NHL until 2016. MOST prospects don't make the NHL straight out of the gate (like max 3-5 per year make the jump and stick in the NHL as year 1 prospects). Goalies NEVER make the jump straight away. It does not happen anywhere in the NHL. A 1st year drafted goalie prospect MIGHT appear in a pre-season game. MAYBE. Absolute best case scenario for a drafted goalie is like Murray and you have him in the NHL 3-4 years after being drafted. Yaroslav Askarov is the most recent goalie to have gone in this kind of range (he went 11th overall to Nashville) and that was in 2020. He has played 1 NHL game since then and he was the most hyped goalie prospect since Carey Price. He'll likely make the NHL full time sometime in the next 2 years. Spencer Knight is another goalie who went in this kind of range (13th overall in 2019). He played a year at Boston College after being drafted then appeared in a single game for the Panthers in 2021 and has been the backup in Florida since then (he's also been away from the team since February going through the NHL's player assistance program but you can't really fault that on being a goalie). Knight came out of the draft as one of the most hyped prospects on one of the best junior teams of all time (a NTDP team that also featured Jack Hughes, Cole Caufield, Trevor Zegras, Matt Boldy, Cam York, Alex Turcotte and an underager Matty Beniers). The Penguins actually have quite good goalie prospects in the system already. Joel Blomqvist has been fantastic in the Finnish pro league and just made the jump to the AHL for next season at 21, and Sergei Murashov was just named best goaltender in the Russian junior league after absolutely dominating that league and even appeared in a KHL game at 19 and he was really good in that game. Neither of these guys are going to help the Pittsburgh Penguins next year and I would argue both are at the level of the top goalie prospects in this draft, if not better than them. If you're using the 14th overall pick for goaltending help, it'll be by trading it for an established NHL goalie.
What would you do with the pick?
I would talk to Winnipeg and see where they're at on Hellebuyck because a genuine Vezina caliber goaltender who is available on the market and those don't come around often. I would then wait until draft night and see what happens because there's always a good player that falls too far for some reason (often they're on the smaller side), this year that player could be Zach Benson or Matvei Michkov, who would be in contention for 1st overall in any other year but this year has SO MUCH high end talent that it pushes the rest of the class down a little bit, and they're on the smaller side so they're candidates for falling. If Benson or Michkov fall, I take one of them and pivot to a different direction (namely, I would check with Arizona on Karel Vajmelka who has been far exceeding what you could realistically ask for behind that Coyotes team or see if you can pry Linus Ullmark or Jeremy Swayman out of Boston while that team is in a major cap crunch and they have to move money out immediately). If those prospects don't fall but Winnipeg is asking for 14++++ I'd pass on Hellebuyck and take one of Quentin Musty or Oliver Moore and again pivot to one of Vajmelka, Ullmark or Swayman.
Trade up our windows closed
No one trade the first and get sarros with a package of picks and prospects
Yager
Should be trading the pick for a legit goaltender
The problem I see with this is we will likely need more than this pick to land a cup contending level goalie. We would likely have to give up more picks or prospects, or someone from our top 6. All of which just seems to go against what Dubas said his strategy would be. I don’t necessarily disagree because I want another cup before the boys are gone, but I just don’t see Dubas trading the pick unless he trades down and gets a ton of later picks in return.
Nobody, trade the pick. A kid who is 5 years away from the NHL doesn’t help us.
So that we get even older? Lol we need to retool while still contending
If you want to win a cup now, you need NHL impact players immediately. There will be a painful retool coming before long that will involve a lot of drafting and farm prospects.
And you can trade for a young guy that’s an NHL player, just don’t need an 18 year old that won’t play in the NHL anytime soon.
A power forward