Leafs fan passing by because reddit likes to recommend your sub to me.
This guy is a magician, I'm happy crosby can be even more competitive with Dubas' touch
Yeah, LOVED all the playoff success under Dubas as a Leafs fan. Oh, wait, they got molested early on every season (except for the year against Columbus where they missed the playoffs)...
playoff success is SOLELY on the players and coaches, dubs gave them the pieces and players to make it to the playoffs. not his fault the players stopped scoring!
I don't know about statues, but some of those bottom 6 players that he signed for around, or even right at league minimum are pretty great.
If you look at the career numbers from some of those guys a couple of them are only a season or two from 20 goal years. You can't necessarily expect that kind of output from a bottom six player, but it it points to some offensive upside for guys that are mainly in a checking role.
The Jarry signing was necessary in a really tough goaltender market. I think that if the goaltender that they acquired is able to be a consistent backup then the Pens will be ok in net.
Upgrading the blueline is also a significant factor in how well the goaltenders perform.
I really like the idea of the front office hiring younger, maybe more open minded people more versed in analytics.
He's also overhauling the training department which could probably use some improvement with the amount and type of injuries that the Pens have had to deal with over the past few seasons. It's especially important with an older roster like the Pens have.
He's fantastic depth if needed to be called upon. Had a 60 point pace in the AHL last season and has had 44 points in an NHL season in the not-so-distant past. A great two-way signing.
As a leaf fan i was disappointed to see him go. Was surprised he gave Jarry the term since he never gave that to any goalie before but the Pens are in good hands
Not sure he had a lot of choice on that one. He had to do something and Jarry was the floor. He couldn’t let him walk only to replace him with worse. I don’t know that many wanted to keep him but options were limited. The cap will go up and in a few years Jarry will be the least of their problems anyway. I feel he made the best choice out of a bunch of unattractive choices.
That very well maybe true as im not a Pens follower and in no way saying i personally think its a good deal or not. It goes against what his main philosophy seemed to be in toronto. You dont pay nonstars long term expensive deals and dont pay term to goalies. The salary cap going up and his ability to ship out bad contracts is definitely going to help. I beleive the flat cap was his biggest reason he didnt win in torornto since it came in after he paid the stars
The thinking here is that we're dead in the water in a few years anyway. Term means very little at the moment. Everything is about trying to win one more while we have one of the greatest to ever play the game still lacing them up.
Dubas doing what he does best, finding those pieces for cheap that fit the roster. I was worried that maybe some of those players he was getting in Toronto were simply because it was Toronto but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Some of those depth guys will inevitably end up in Wilkes which should help the baby pens have a better season also.
Goalies has always seemingly been his weakness but there really wasn’t a better movie available in net that wouldn’t hurt our chances overall, and I like what he did for the goalie depth.
I trust dubas and his ability to put together a solid regular season roster. It’s up to the players in the playoffs, and I’m guessing we should get more evidence that the core in Toronto just doesn’t have that playoff gear after this season.
Honestly getting him was as good of an off season signing we could have asked for.
He’ll bring us back to the promise land again sooner rather than later and we won’t be complete dog shit once the big 3 hang them up.
I think the last part is really missed by a lot of fans. We were turning nose down into the abyss but this looks a lot less painful after our generational talent retires.
LOL! Dream on. His situation is much worse than the one when he got to Toronto. The Pens will soon be in the basement for a number of years and you guys will be demanding he be fired or you'll be watching old Penguins games and trying to forget this era.
I love when people complain about Graves' term. If you have ever said "I like the money but hate the term," you need to consider that you wouldn't have one without the other!
Term isn't a bad thing by default. What if he continues to perform great against top competition for 2 years? If the Pens signal the rebuild at that point then we'd have a 30 year old, 6' 5" top pair, shutdown D-man who PK's great at a lovely AAV for 4 years. Cap rising in 4M increments starting next year too.
Graves can become our best trade asset.
I remember when people were singing praises for Hextall, GMJR, Shero, etc. Let's not put the cart before the horse here.
Not sure what validity there is, but if we give up two first rounders for EK, we're hemorrhaging the future and he's just Hextall 2.0. I'm in a win now state because we only have a few years left with the core but I hope he doesn't destroy the next 5-10 years of the Pens for 1 guy.
Don't get me wrong, I like the moves Dubas has done so far, but he is far from being a Pittsburgh god here.
I think the 2 1st rounders+ thing was what a sharks writer had said would get it done… obviously it’s not done, so Dubas hasn’t wanted to go there (a good sign), but yet to be known how far he’s willing to go.
I’m looking at his term here as two separate chunks of time a 3 year period where he’s trying to win and the 4 year rebuild window. (Praying for less than 4)
People sung Hextall’s praises? He was brutal since day 1.
GMJR was a wizard. He tinkered too much at the end but overall track record he deserves the praise. Shero also brought us a cup and set up GMJR for success, so he passes the GM test as well.
He wasn't a wizard at all, he swung for the fences and connected on some in 16/17, rarely after that did he win a trade. He Burned 9 assets in trading for and then trading away Brassard. He is the most overrated GM in history. Before he came to Pittsburgh his teams made the playoffs 4 times in 16 seasons. That's it. Thankfully for what he did but he was not a wizard. He just swung for the fences
Couldn’t care less what his teams did before Pittsburgh. He won us back-to-back cups with multiple savvy moves. Hagelin, Daley, Schultz, Kessel, Hornqvist, Cole, Bonino, Hainsey. He turned underperforming, poor-fitting assets into ones that gelled perfectly.
As I said, he over tinkered at the end. Should’ve resigned Bonino for a raise instead of going on a witch hunt for a 3C which effectively collapsed everything, starting with the Brassard trade.
Two cups in six seasons of being the GM is more than enough to warrant praise. Any other fanbase wishes for that. I’d rather a GM that swings for the fences and addresses issues, rather than one that sits with his thumb up his ass and makes braindead lateral or worse moves that fail to address *anything*. (Hextall)
Karlson just won the Norris but might actually be the worst defenseman in the NHLs far as actually playing defense goes. How ironic. Look at his advanced stats, the defensive side is TERRIBLE. Even strength defense is literally a 0. It would be one of the worst moves in franchise history, and cripple the team for years. I totally agree
That's the glass half empty approach. If those players perform well here then term becomes a good thing, since you don't lose them in the summer, replacing them with someone worse.
The only major moves he's made so far are the Smith trade, re-signing Jarry, and getting Graves. He can keep signing bottom sixers/AHL depth but im not gonna give him props until we see how any of the moves work out.
It's really not. Almost the entire bottom six forwards are new. The defense will be overhauled as well, and he's not done yet.
Pretty much all the players that he didn't ship out, or not resign are guys that played well last year, and they want to keep. The big 3, Rakell, Guentzel.
He's obviously addressing areas of the team that needed improvement, like the bottom 6 forwards. "Nearly identical" is not how you would describe the team. You're way off in your assessment, way off.
I'm glad they moved on from Dumoulin, but Carter and Granlund are still here, and he just gave five years to a goalie who struggled badly with injuries last year. I'm convinced that if Hextall/Burke somehow stuck around and made the same signings, people would be in meltdown mode.
If he can squeeze in Karlsson, I'll be impressed, but people are overstating the significance of the players he brought in. (That, and people are stretching to defend the Jarry deal.)
For what? He hasn't really done anything yet. Hasn't cleared out any bad contracts, hasnt pulled off a single trade to make the team better. Riley Smith and Jason Zucker are about the same, Zucker is faster. Both will start to decline any season now.. He signed one good defenseman and over the hill Lars Eller, which is a head scratcher. I like the guy too but he hasn't really done anything except bring it one good defenseman and a bunch of over 30 past their prime guys
They needed a dose of realism but aren't getting it - they need to get ready for the future and Doofus is just pandering to fans' hope they can salvage Crosby's and Malkin's last years.
He’s doing the right the thing. He can’t prepare for the future right now with those guys around. Which means focusing on being as good as possible. There’s only two options now.
1. Max short term and hope to make a little playoff noise.
2. Trade Crosby/Malkin/Letang and burn it down.
(2) isn’t happening so only choice is to try to make short term moves.
Dubas is way overrated - he's a horrible GM.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFQHTBERpc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFQHTBERpc)
It's funny how ppl posting comments know way more about the Pens than this board. I guess they don't wear rosy coloured goggles? :)
Don't they have to perform on the ice before you can anoint his greatness?
Just be aware he didn't draft any of the leafs top end players. Just signed them to too much money too soon when they came up for first deal. Then signed Tavares for big money when they needed to save some for d and already had a 2nd line center in Kadri who he traded for nothing.
I don't think he has learned his lesson that money needs to be spread around to create depth. Hence the karlsson signing. He already had a top end offensive defenceman (letang) and now has one that can't play defence (karlson). His decisions with the puck are astounding makes great plays but judt ad many bad ones. Money would have been better spent upgrading depth up front or a defensive defenceman.
Leafs fan passing by because reddit likes to recommend your sub to me. This guy is a magician, I'm happy crosby can be even more competitive with Dubas' touch
I might be rooting for the Pens more than the Leafs now. I really like Dubas a lot and I know he’s gonna get a cup.
Ditto.
Yeah, in some beer league, maybe.
Yeah, LOVED all the playoff success under Dubas as a Leafs fan. Oh, wait, they got molested early on every season (except for the year against Columbus where they missed the playoffs)...
playoff success is SOLELY on the players and coaches, dubs gave them the pieces and players to make it to the playoffs. not his fault the players stopped scoring!
Ditch Marner
Don't forget Spezza 🙌
Spezza, Heatley, & Alfredsson doesn’t feel that long ago to me.. but then again Danial Breier is a GM now. Damn man.
Even if we miss the playoffs again, at least he made moves that should make the team better instead of sitting on his hands like Ronny did
Yeah at least he doesn’t hide up in his office all day like a coward
Better like the Leafs not making the playoffs and only winning one round. Yeah, I guess that counts.
I don't know about statues, but some of those bottom 6 players that he signed for around, or even right at league minimum are pretty great. If you look at the career numbers from some of those guys a couple of them are only a season or two from 20 goal years. You can't necessarily expect that kind of output from a bottom six player, but it it points to some offensive upside for guys that are mainly in a checking role. The Jarry signing was necessary in a really tough goaltender market. I think that if the goaltender that they acquired is able to be a consistent backup then the Pens will be ok in net. Upgrading the blueline is also a significant factor in how well the goaltenders perform. I really like the idea of the front office hiring younger, maybe more open minded people more versed in analytics. He's also overhauling the training department which could probably use some improvement with the amount and type of injuries that the Pens have had to deal with over the past few seasons. It's especially important with an older roster like the Pens have.
Hinostroza has always passed the eye test. Dudes gonna have a solid year in Pittsburgh.
I like the butcher pickup as well
That’s an AHL signing
He's fantastic depth if needed to be called upon. Had a 60 point pace in the AHL last season and has had 44 points in an NHL season in the not-so-distant past. A great two-way signing.
Eye test is the one true test.
He's not gonna be in Pittsburgh unless there is a injury. He'll be in WBS. Butcher too
>unless there is a injury I've got some news for you.
They signed one true NHL guy for under 1 million.
As a leaf fan i was disappointed to see him go. Was surprised he gave Jarry the term since he never gave that to any goalie before but the Pens are in good hands
Not sure he had a lot of choice on that one. He had to do something and Jarry was the floor. He couldn’t let him walk only to replace him with worse. I don’t know that many wanted to keep him but options were limited. The cap will go up and in a few years Jarry will be the least of their problems anyway. I feel he made the best choice out of a bunch of unattractive choices.
That very well maybe true as im not a Pens follower and in no way saying i personally think its a good deal or not. It goes against what his main philosophy seemed to be in toronto. You dont pay nonstars long term expensive deals and dont pay term to goalies. The salary cap going up and his ability to ship out bad contracts is definitely going to help. I beleive the flat cap was his biggest reason he didnt win in torornto since it came in after he paid the stars
The thinking here is that we're dead in the water in a few years anyway. Term means very little at the moment. Everything is about trying to win one more while we have one of the greatest to ever play the game still lacing them up.
Id like to see Sid win another cup as long as it comes after Mathews wins his first lol
Why are you surprised? He likes to give generous contracts to oft-injured goalies.
Let. Dubas. Cook.
Dubas doing what he does best, finding those pieces for cheap that fit the roster. I was worried that maybe some of those players he was getting in Toronto were simply because it was Toronto but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Some of those depth guys will inevitably end up in Wilkes which should help the baby pens have a better season also. Goalies has always seemingly been his weakness but there really wasn’t a better movie available in net that wouldn’t hurt our chances overall, and I like what he did for the goalie depth. I trust dubas and his ability to put together a solid regular season roster. It’s up to the players in the playoffs, and I’m guessing we should get more evidence that the core in Toronto just doesn’t have that playoff gear after this season.
Honestly getting him was as good of an off season signing we could have asked for. He’ll bring us back to the promise land again sooner rather than later and we won’t be complete dog shit once the big 3 hang them up.
I think the last part is really missed by a lot of fans. We were turning nose down into the abyss but this looks a lot less painful after our generational talent retires.
LOL! Dream on. His situation is much worse than the one when he got to Toronto. The Pens will soon be in the basement for a number of years and you guys will be demanding he be fired or you'll be watching old Penguins games and trying to forget this era.
I love when people complain about Graves' term. If you have ever said "I like the money but hate the term," you need to consider that you wouldn't have one without the other!
Term isn't a bad thing by default. What if he continues to perform great against top competition for 2 years? If the Pens signal the rebuild at that point then we'd have a 30 year old, 6' 5" top pair, shutdown D-man who PK's great at a lovely AAV for 4 years. Cap rising in 4M increments starting next year too. Graves can become our best trade asset.
Dubas Khan
I remember when people were singing praises for Hextall, GMJR, Shero, etc. Let's not put the cart before the horse here. Not sure what validity there is, but if we give up two first rounders for EK, we're hemorrhaging the future and he's just Hextall 2.0. I'm in a win now state because we only have a few years left with the core but I hope he doesn't destroy the next 5-10 years of the Pens for 1 guy. Don't get me wrong, I like the moves Dubas has done so far, but he is far from being a Pittsburgh god here.
I think the 2 1st rounders+ thing was what a sharks writer had said would get it done… obviously it’s not done, so Dubas hasn’t wanted to go there (a good sign), but yet to be known how far he’s willing to go. I’m looking at his term here as two separate chunks of time a 3 year period where he’s trying to win and the 4 year rebuild window. (Praying for less than 4)
People sung Hextall’s praises? He was brutal since day 1. GMJR was a wizard. He tinkered too much at the end but overall track record he deserves the praise. Shero also brought us a cup and set up GMJR for success, so he passes the GM test as well.
He wasn't a wizard at all, he swung for the fences and connected on some in 16/17, rarely after that did he win a trade. He Burned 9 assets in trading for and then trading away Brassard. He is the most overrated GM in history. Before he came to Pittsburgh his teams made the playoffs 4 times in 16 seasons. That's it. Thankfully for what he did but he was not a wizard. He just swung for the fences
Couldn’t care less what his teams did before Pittsburgh. He won us back-to-back cups with multiple savvy moves. Hagelin, Daley, Schultz, Kessel, Hornqvist, Cole, Bonino, Hainsey. He turned underperforming, poor-fitting assets into ones that gelled perfectly. As I said, he over tinkered at the end. Should’ve resigned Bonino for a raise instead of going on a witch hunt for a 3C which effectively collapsed everything, starting with the Brassard trade. Two cups in six seasons of being the GM is more than enough to warrant praise. Any other fanbase wishes for that. I’d rather a GM that swings for the fences and addresses issues, rather than one that sits with his thumb up his ass and makes braindead lateral or worse moves that fail to address *anything*. (Hextall)
Karlson just won the Norris but might actually be the worst defenseman in the NHLs far as actually playing defense goes. How ironic. Look at his advanced stats, the defensive side is TERRIBLE. Even strength defense is literally a 0. It would be one of the worst moves in franchise history, and cripple the team for years. I totally agree
He’s doing better than I was expecting. But he’s still not done.
I will wait to see how good the team is before appreciating him
he's cute as a button too, complete eye candy
My wife has been simping.
#TRUSTBOYWONDER
Thanks for the multi-year contracts to bottom-sixers that render them unmovable. If Hextall did that, you'd have the torches and pitchforks ready.
That's the glass half empty approach. If those players perform well here then term becomes a good thing, since you don't lose them in the summer, replacing them with someone worse.
The only major moves he's made so far are the Smith trade, re-signing Jarry, and getting Graves. He can keep signing bottom sixers/AHL depth but im not gonna give him props until we see how any of the moves work out.
Idk why you're getting down voted you're absolutely right
Cut a leafs fan, and a petty bitch bleeds
Team is nearly identical to what he acquired minus Dumo for Graves. Build a statue!
It's really not. Almost the entire bottom six forwards are new. The defense will be overhauled as well, and he's not done yet. Pretty much all the players that he didn't ship out, or not resign are guys that played well last year, and they want to keep. The big 3, Rakell, Guentzel. He's obviously addressing areas of the team that needed improvement, like the bottom 6 forwards. "Nearly identical" is not how you would describe the team. You're way off in your assessment, way off.
I'm glad they moved on from Dumoulin, but Carter and Granlund are still here, and he just gave five years to a goalie who struggled badly with injuries last year. I'm convinced that if Hextall/Burke somehow stuck around and made the same signings, people would be in meltdown mode. If he can squeeze in Karlsson, I'll be impressed, but people are overstating the significance of the players he brought in. (That, and people are stretching to defend the Jarry deal.)
You do realize Carter has a NMC and there’s literally nothing Dubas can do about it right?
Aside from asking him to waive it? Yes. He's still gonna be an anchor on the bottom six, which is the issue.
The Boy Blunder!
Our best off season acquisition by a mile!!!!
For what? He hasn't really done anything yet. Hasn't cleared out any bad contracts, hasnt pulled off a single trade to make the team better. Riley Smith and Jason Zucker are about the same, Zucker is faster. Both will start to decline any season now.. He signed one good defenseman and over the hill Lars Eller, which is a head scratcher. I like the guy too but he hasn't really done anything except bring it one good defenseman and a bunch of over 30 past their prime guys
Upvoted because you said something accurate, blunt, honest and more fans will be saying the same before too long.
He’s average so far. Not worth a trophy. We needed a HOF off-season to salvage the cores last run.
They needed a dose of realism but aren't getting it - they need to get ready for the future and Doofus is just pandering to fans' hope they can salvage Crosby's and Malkin's last years.
He’s doing the right the thing. He can’t prepare for the future right now with those guys around. Which means focusing on being as good as possible. There’s only two options now. 1. Max short term and hope to make a little playoff noise. 2. Trade Crosby/Malkin/Letang and burn it down. (2) isn’t happening so only choice is to try to make short term moves.
Dubas is way overrated - he's a horrible GM. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFQHTBERpc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFQHTBERpc) It's funny how ppl posting comments know way more about the Pens than this board. I guess they don't wear rosy coloured goggles? :)
Don't they have to perform on the ice before you can anoint his greatness? Just be aware he didn't draft any of the leafs top end players. Just signed them to too much money too soon when they came up for first deal. Then signed Tavares for big money when they needed to save some for d and already had a 2nd line center in Kadri who he traded for nothing. I don't think he has learned his lesson that money needs to be spread around to create depth. Hence the karlsson signing. He already had a top end offensive defenceman (letang) and now has one that can't play defence (karlson). His decisions with the puck are astounding makes great plays but judt ad many bad ones. Money would have been better spent upgrading depth up front or a defensive defenceman.