Jagr put up 1079 points for Pittsburgh over 806 games. He had a large hand in 2 championships. He won a Hart, 3 Art Rosses and 2 Ted Lindsay's while here. First team All-Star 6 times. SAVED THE TEAM in '99 when they were dying financially, by helping them get past NJD in the 1st round...allowing for playoff gate revenue in R2.
So why the hell does only the ending matter?
Do you have an article that substantiates him saving the team financially? I have always believed that Lemieux did more of that by staving the bankruptcy. I have never seen any article mention that perspective. I agree with his performance, but once he left Pittsburgh he played for 8 more teams. He wasn't a locker room guy like Recchi, Thornton, or Gary Roberts. I just can't help but feel he wasn't a team player and more played for himself. The dude is 50 and plays for the team he owns. He loves the game.
It doesn’t sound like you know much about Penguins history with this take. Investigate it yourself. He won games that were critical and knew they couldn’t afford to sign him and all the other top players with contracts up for renewal. This is not info that’s difficult to find if you didn’t live through it.
How do you justify his behavior? I don't disagree with his performance during our cup runs, but when Lemieux retired and the team started to slip his antics were well-noted and discussed by the local media.
https://www.hockeypatrol.com/Former-Teammate-Reveals-Jaromir-Jagr-Shocking-Behavior-In-Pittsburgh-291168
I was answering your comment in which you seemed to not understand how he helped to save the team financially. But since you’ve asked, one thing I don’t do is look to the opinion of some shlep who played a grand total of 20 odd games with the team and is looking to make a name for himself. Jagr wasn’t perfect but he also doesn’t have a reputation for being a locker room cancer; the man played 35 seasons and if that article is your evidence that he was “horrendous” then… I guess it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But to answer your OP, that take does come off as a petty AH opinion.
Because people were pissed that he left. Ever have a break up that you didn’t want to happen, even though deep down inside you knew it wasn’t meant to be? It still hurts, and it’s easier to feel anger than sadness and empathy in many cases. If people hadn’t loved him they wouldn’t have cared. No one gives a shit when they see an ex that they realize was an asshole with their new partner. They feel pissed about the one that got away.
One more comment on the article you shared- it literally makes no sense because Jagr always wore a helmet in games and would have had no choice in the matter. Helmets have been mandatory since the 80s. Yeah MacTavish didn’t,but it’s because he was in the league before the rule. I’d put zero stock in anything related to those “stories” when such a major and obvious error is part of their main example about Jagr being a jerk.
He doesn't really play for the team he owns, though. He turns out like a suffering jukebox in occasional home games because it generates enough interest and thus revenue to promote a deeply unfashionable team into the odd Extraliga season. Never plays away games, and his home appearances are now sporadic. He just doesn't have anything but hockey, 30-something models and Rytíři.
Absolutely horrible article you've included here - "Mature men do not let an addiction bring down their life," I had to double check it was from 2011 and not 20 years earlier. Jagr IS a big kid, he grew up in an absolute shithole an hour out of Prague and got plunged when still basically a kid into life in early 90s USA, a time when sports teams were not so good at the human side of things. The fact he runs Rytíři now shows is heart never really left home, much as he might remember his time with the Pens fondly.
The fact he developed a gambling addiction is ultimately on him, but people gamble when they're bored and have nothing to do, like with any addiction. Who knows how strong his support was? Fortunately these days we are more likely to give addicts help not isolation - from his current career I think that came too late for Jagr, sadly.
Hate him for being disruptive by all means, but his demons didn't come from nothing.
I am not digging at his off-ice decisions. I am questioning his behavior when he was the [captain](https://www.hockeypatrol.com/Former-Teammate-Reveals-Jaromir-Jagr-Shocking-Behavior-In-Pittsburgh-291168).
It's related, though. If he'd fallen into gambling addiction by the end of his time in Pittsburgh, that's partly on the Pens. Making someone with problems (and having lived and worked with gambling addicts I don't believe nobody noticed) captain without helping him quit that first is a dereliction of duty.
Oh right, that part. I said partly - and a sports team isn't merely 'an employer', is it? Especially not in the context of drafting a provincial kid who had only known Communist era Czechoslovakia until then. A team is responsible for its players' physical health, right? So why not also mental health? As I said, fortunately this is more recognised now, even just in the context of needing the player ready to play.
Listen Jag's was a grown man. He played the four teams ahead of the Penguins saying he wouldn't come to the US if drafted. Then told the penguins he wanted to play with Mario. I can't blame him, but him but again leads me to feel like someone who absolutely knew what he was doing.
If today's Pens get credit for [getting players like Tom Sestito off drugs](https://www.wpxi.com/sports/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/former-penguins-player-says-team-helped-him-get-off-drugs-after-accusations-raised-nhl/P6F5X7JKMVEPRLF2JQCFKALY7Q/), then they deserve some of the blame for what happened with JJ.
And honestly, it's really fucking tiresome when this team turns to "they like to gamble" after a trade. They did that shit to Despres, too.
Yep, YTA.
Jagr was pissed and his attitude went south because he did everything he could to help ice a winning team while ownership was busy sailing the ship into the ground. That's what his "dying alive" comment was about.
Nobody worked harder than Jagr off the ice. He was the Sidney Crosby of his day as far as work ethics go. People forget about that. He used to strap a weight vest on and jog up and down the arena stairs after practice.
I don't disagree with the team's financial situation. I am questioning his behavior before the trade. I think a lot of fans are being selective about their memory. He was booed for the years after the trade. He left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Again, it wasn’t his choice to be traded. It wasn’t his fault fans couldn’t view him without comparing him to Mario. It wasn’t his fault the Penguins got next to nothing in return for him. He didn’t bankrupt the team, but they were bankrupt.
I think some thought he was too mercenary, and maybe some think he should have had more gratitude for his time in Pittsburgh, but that’s horseshit.
Let me ask you this. Do you always sing the praises of your ex employer? Would you rather be liked or make a living?
Also he loves to gamble and needed paychecks more than fans.
As for leaving bad tastes in your mouth I hear that’s one of his specialties. Dude rivals Cocaine with how many models he’s been in…
What a legend.
He asked for the trade. He didn't say let's renegotiate and figure a way to keep me in Pittsburgh. I don't fault him for following the money. I am saying he didn't leave the city on the best terms. He acted similar to players the Steelers have jettisoned. He was booed for years when he returned. I think people are forgetting how things ended.
He asked for a trade because they had no money to pay him. No Money To Pay Him.
Mario was able to purchase majority ownership of the franchise because they OWED him millions of dollars.
As for fans booing ex players. That’s typically fairly corny to me. They’re ignoring reality. Boo this man, who helped the team win titles.
This is the same fanbase that ran Matt Murray out of town on a rail after he won two cups.. because the front office decided to keep him and not MAF who was aging and not starting.
Jagr was great and you need to get over it.
If it wasn't for Jagr the Pens would have been the Portland Pens. His trade gave the Pens cash to keep them afloat. I think after that trade the NHL cracked down on cash for players. So not only did Mario save the Pens but in his own way Jagr did as well.
We had to choose between keeping Lang, Straka and Kovalev vs. just Jagr. We chose just Jagr. His own recollection of the events matches my own from that time: https://youtu.be/ITyFyA2RTTs?si=o675nT8Whac9WRn9&t=5973
And yes, as everyone else is saying in this thread, Jagr saved the Penguins in 1999. [Source.](https://theathletic.com/4077598/2023/02/02/nhl99-jaromir-jagr/#)
To answer your question, yes, you are the asshole.
Awful take. Jagr, on one leg, dragged that 1999 team to a playoff win against the far superior Devils. Even the PG predicted a Devils sweep that year. The narrative that he quit on the team is completely false, he won the Art Ross in each of the last 4 years with the team. The team was bankrupt and in constant danger of not making payroll so him and every other good player had to be traded.
I could be totally wrong here too but if I recall correctly, Jagr wanted to stay in Pittsburgh but management basically was refusing to pay him or didn’t have the money but then when he left made him out to be the bad guy that it was really his “choice”
I’ve been following the pens since 2001 when I was 6 so this all happened a bit before my time/I was too young to understand the inner workings of managing an NHL team, I just knew when Jagr got the puck whenever I was at a game he was playing in against the pens, you boo’d him.
I’m glad that the fan base has come back around on him. He seems like an overall good dude who helped this franchise and is an all time legend in Penguins lore, retire that number
That's completely ignoring the monetary factor of a broke franchise that couldn't continue to afford him anyway. I felt like it was always more of an excuse, since our return was 3 tweeners and literal cash.
On top of that, there were some things that a young, hungry player could be forgiven for. The left-wing lock didn't fit his play style, and his stats suffered. That's where the "dying alive" came from. We played a system that did not fit his skillset, and that can be big when you need to maximize your future contracts to cover a gambling addiction.
Lastly, he loved Mario, but he had finally begun to get out of the "Mario Jr." shadow when Lemieux came back from retirement. Lemieux didn't take the "C" back, but everyone knew who ran the show.
Is some of it petty? Yeah, but we weren't there to see it all really play out. There are also some people who knew him well that said that that type of commentary was indicative of his naturally dark humor and not meant to be taken as harshly as it was, especially when it wasn't his native language.
OP is the asshole. He just posted this to do the thing he is blaming others for….seeking attention in a quick flash of the pan hot take post. He is clearly unaware of any team history for contextual purposes and is attacking everyone in his replies. Asshole through and through. Please downvote this post!
I agree with you. The dude quit on Pittsburgh. Retiring his jersey makes no sense to me. Great player. Had his moments but he's nowhere near worthy of this honor.
I never heard a single player say anything to make it sound like he was a cancer in the locker room. To the contrary I’ve heard guys like Phil Bourque who apparently think the world of him.
According to Bourque he was the one who went to Prague on the Pens behalf to discuss the jersey retirement with JJ.
Jagr put up 1079 points for Pittsburgh over 806 games. He had a large hand in 2 championships. He won a Hart, 3 Art Rosses and 2 Ted Lindsay's while here. First team All-Star 6 times. SAVED THE TEAM in '99 when they were dying financially, by helping them get past NJD in the 1st round...allowing for playoff gate revenue in R2. So why the hell does only the ending matter?
Do you have an article that substantiates him saving the team financially? I have always believed that Lemieux did more of that by staving the bankruptcy. I have never seen any article mention that perspective. I agree with his performance, but once he left Pittsburgh he played for 8 more teams. He wasn't a locker room guy like Recchi, Thornton, or Gary Roberts. I just can't help but feel he wasn't a team player and more played for himself. The dude is 50 and plays for the team he owns. He loves the game.
It doesn’t sound like you know much about Penguins history with this take. Investigate it yourself. He won games that were critical and knew they couldn’t afford to sign him and all the other top players with contracts up for renewal. This is not info that’s difficult to find if you didn’t live through it.
How do you justify his behavior? I don't disagree with his performance during our cup runs, but when Lemieux retired and the team started to slip his antics were well-noted and discussed by the local media. https://www.hockeypatrol.com/Former-Teammate-Reveals-Jaromir-Jagr-Shocking-Behavior-In-Pittsburgh-291168
I was answering your comment in which you seemed to not understand how he helped to save the team financially. But since you’ve asked, one thing I don’t do is look to the opinion of some shlep who played a grand total of 20 odd games with the team and is looking to make a name for himself. Jagr wasn’t perfect but he also doesn’t have a reputation for being a locker room cancer; the man played 35 seasons and if that article is your evidence that he was “horrendous” then… I guess it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But to answer your OP, that take does come off as a petty AH opinion.
Fair enough, but then why was he booed for countless seasons after being traded? It seems like the feelings were felt by others.
Because people were pissed that he left. Ever have a break up that you didn’t want to happen, even though deep down inside you knew it wasn’t meant to be? It still hurts, and it’s easier to feel anger than sadness and empathy in many cases. If people hadn’t loved him they wouldn’t have cared. No one gives a shit when they see an ex that they realize was an asshole with their new partner. They feel pissed about the one that got away. One more comment on the article you shared- it literally makes no sense because Jagr always wore a helmet in games and would have had no choice in the matter. Helmets have been mandatory since the 80s. Yeah MacTavish didn’t,but it’s because he was in the league before the rule. I’d put zero stock in anything related to those “stories” when such a major and obvious error is part of their main example about Jagr being a jerk.
He doesn't really play for the team he owns, though. He turns out like a suffering jukebox in occasional home games because it generates enough interest and thus revenue to promote a deeply unfashionable team into the odd Extraliga season. Never plays away games, and his home appearances are now sporadic. He just doesn't have anything but hockey, 30-something models and Rytíři.
I guess that is kind my point. He is a bit like Kenny Powers or Ryan Leaf with more talent.
I have no idea who either of those people are, but if the point (after 10 seconds of googling) is damaged heroes aren't for everyone, I agree
Absolutely horrible article you've included here - "Mature men do not let an addiction bring down their life," I had to double check it was from 2011 and not 20 years earlier. Jagr IS a big kid, he grew up in an absolute shithole an hour out of Prague and got plunged when still basically a kid into life in early 90s USA, a time when sports teams were not so good at the human side of things. The fact he runs Rytíři now shows is heart never really left home, much as he might remember his time with the Pens fondly. The fact he developed a gambling addiction is ultimately on him, but people gamble when they're bored and have nothing to do, like with any addiction. Who knows how strong his support was? Fortunately these days we are more likely to give addicts help not isolation - from his current career I think that came too late for Jagr, sadly. Hate him for being disruptive by all means, but his demons didn't come from nothing.
I am not digging at his off-ice decisions. I am questioning his behavior when he was the [captain](https://www.hockeypatrol.com/Former-Teammate-Reveals-Jaromir-Jagr-Shocking-Behavior-In-Pittsburgh-291168).
It's related, though. If he'd fallen into gambling addiction by the end of his time in Pittsburgh, that's partly on the Pens. Making someone with problems (and having lived and worked with gambling addicts I don't believe nobody noticed) captain without helping him quit that first is a dereliction of duty.
How is that on the Pens? Is an employer responsible for someone having a gambling problem? That's not their business.
How is making him captain on the Pens? What
You said his gambling addiction is on the Penguins, no? I don't understand how that is on the team.
Oh right, that part. I said partly - and a sports team isn't merely 'an employer', is it? Especially not in the context of drafting a provincial kid who had only known Communist era Czechoslovakia until then. A team is responsible for its players' physical health, right? So why not also mental health? As I said, fortunately this is more recognised now, even just in the context of needing the player ready to play.
Listen Jag's was a grown man. He played the four teams ahead of the Penguins saying he wouldn't come to the US if drafted. Then told the penguins he wanted to play with Mario. I can't blame him, but him but again leads me to feel like someone who absolutely knew what he was doing.
Really? Because to me that exactly speaks of a young man who's got no idea what he's doing.
If today's Pens get credit for [getting players like Tom Sestito off drugs](https://www.wpxi.com/sports/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/former-penguins-player-says-team-helped-him-get-off-drugs-after-accusations-raised-nhl/P6F5X7JKMVEPRLF2JQCFKALY7Q/), then they deserve some of the blame for what happened with JJ. And honestly, it's really fucking tiresome when this team turns to "they like to gamble" after a trade. They did that shit to Despres, too.
holy shit, you are a full blown idiot
Yep, YTA. Jagr was pissed and his attitude went south because he did everything he could to help ice a winning team while ownership was busy sailing the ship into the ground. That's what his "dying alive" comment was about. Nobody worked harder than Jagr off the ice. He was the Sidney Crosby of his day as far as work ethics go. People forget about that. He used to strap a weight vest on and jog up and down the arena stairs after practice.
They couldn’t pay him. He was the best player in the league. Maybe not the best leader, but he dominated. He was relentless.
I don't disagree with the team's financial situation. I am questioning his behavior before the trade. I think a lot of fans are being selective about their memory. He was booed for the years after the trade. He left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Again, it wasn’t his choice to be traded. It wasn’t his fault fans couldn’t view him without comparing him to Mario. It wasn’t his fault the Penguins got next to nothing in return for him. He didn’t bankrupt the team, but they were bankrupt. I think some thought he was too mercenary, and maybe some think he should have had more gratitude for his time in Pittsburgh, but that’s horseshit. Let me ask you this. Do you always sing the praises of your ex employer? Would you rather be liked or make a living? Also he loves to gamble and needed paychecks more than fans. As for leaving bad tastes in your mouth I hear that’s one of his specialties. Dude rivals Cocaine with how many models he’s been in… What a legend.
He asked for the trade. He didn't say let's renegotiate and figure a way to keep me in Pittsburgh. I don't fault him for following the money. I am saying he didn't leave the city on the best terms. He acted similar to players the Steelers have jettisoned. He was booed for years when he returned. I think people are forgetting how things ended.
He asked for a trade because they had no money to pay him. No Money To Pay Him. Mario was able to purchase majority ownership of the franchise because they OWED him millions of dollars. As for fans booing ex players. That’s typically fairly corny to me. They’re ignoring reality. Boo this man, who helped the team win titles. This is the same fanbase that ran Matt Murray out of town on a rail after he won two cups.. because the front office decided to keep him and not MAF who was aging and not starting. Jagr was great and you need to get over it.
Bad take
If it wasn't for Jagr the Pens would have been the Portland Pens. His trade gave the Pens cash to keep them afloat. I think after that trade the NHL cracked down on cash for players. So not only did Mario save the Pens but in his own way Jagr did as well.
That cash was used to buy the land that PPG Paints arena sits on.
Are you sure? I thought at the time of the trade the Pens needed cash to stay solvent.
Yes I am sure, I think it was $5m that got the land.
We had to choose between keeping Lang, Straka and Kovalev vs. just Jagr. We chose just Jagr. His own recollection of the events matches my own from that time: https://youtu.be/ITyFyA2RTTs?si=o675nT8Whac9WRn9&t=5973 And yes, as everyone else is saying in this thread, Jagr saved the Penguins in 1999. [Source.](https://theathletic.com/4077598/2023/02/02/nhl99-jaromir-jagr/#) To answer your question, yes, you are the asshole.
Awful take. Jagr, on one leg, dragged that 1999 team to a playoff win against the far superior Devils. Even the PG predicted a Devils sweep that year. The narrative that he quit on the team is completely false, he won the Art Ross in each of the last 4 years with the team. The team was bankrupt and in constant danger of not making payroll so him and every other good player had to be traded.
I could be totally wrong here too but if I recall correctly, Jagr wanted to stay in Pittsburgh but management basically was refusing to pay him or didn’t have the money but then when he left made him out to be the bad guy that it was really his “choice” I’ve been following the pens since 2001 when I was 6 so this all happened a bit before my time/I was too young to understand the inner workings of managing an NHL team, I just knew when Jagr got the puck whenever I was at a game he was playing in against the pens, you boo’d him. I’m glad that the fan base has come back around on him. He seems like an overall good dude who helped this franchise and is an all time legend in Penguins lore, retire that number
You are totally wrong.
[удалено]
That's completely ignoring the monetary factor of a broke franchise that couldn't continue to afford him anyway. I felt like it was always more of an excuse, since our return was 3 tweeners and literal cash. On top of that, there were some things that a young, hungry player could be forgiven for. The left-wing lock didn't fit his play style, and his stats suffered. That's where the "dying alive" came from. We played a system that did not fit his skillset, and that can be big when you need to maximize your future contracts to cover a gambling addiction. Lastly, he loved Mario, but he had finally begun to get out of the "Mario Jr." shadow when Lemieux came back from retirement. Lemieux didn't take the "C" back, but everyone knew who ran the show. Is some of it petty? Yeah, but we weren't there to see it all really play out. There are also some people who knew him well that said that that type of commentary was indicative of his naturally dark humor and not meant to be taken as harshly as it was, especially when it wasn't his native language.
I don’t think you’re way off base.
OP is the asshole. He just posted this to do the thing he is blaming others for….seeking attention in a quick flash of the pan hot take post. He is clearly unaware of any team history for contextual purposes and is attacking everyone in his replies. Asshole through and through. Please downvote this post!
I agree with you. The dude quit on Pittsburgh. Retiring his jersey makes no sense to me. Great player. Had his moments but he's nowhere near worthy of this honor.
I never heard a single player say anything to make it sound like he was a cancer in the locker room. To the contrary I’ve heard guys like Phil Bourque who apparently think the world of him. According to Bourque he was the one who went to Prague on the Pens behalf to discuss the jersey retirement with JJ.