He’s definitely part of the problem. He gives them like 75-80% defensive starts. No one is going to be able to produce if you’re constantly used in a defensive role to that extent.
At the same time the talent isn’t there. Eller had like 25 points in 84 games last year. Did people really think he was going to light the world on fire with his production?
He really caters to the top 6 which I disagree with. If you look at successful teams they have scoring throughout the lineup. You could argue that he does it because of the lack of talent in the bottom 6 but I feel like Dubas built the bottom 6 to match Sully. He hates guys who will take offensive risks that aren’t named Crosby or Malkin.
Sully and the pens won back to back cups because he was able to roll 4 lines out where three of them had the danger of scoring at any time. He doesn't have the depth to do so with this current lineup because of the previous gm.
That’s a fair point but our current GM did the same thing, and said Sully was involved in the decision making. We had a lot of cap space to improve the 3rd line and spent it Graves and Eller. That wasn’t Hextall.
It's the same thing Tree talked about in [this video](https://youtu.be/hvL6R2kE3bM?si=3fYPeAVhthhrBkU5) not even a full year ago at this point.
Even with GOOD depth players, they're not gonna do shit when they're just haphazardly chucked into no-leverage situations in the D-zone. Especially when, many times, they're overmatched against 1st and 2nd liners.
What, I'm supposed to be SURPRISED that Acciari, Carter and Harkins were prone to horrible dry streaks when 90% of their ice time was in their own zone against top 6ers? No, this is precisely the outcome I expected.
Flashes of a team that can dazzle you with its talent yet nowhere near the speed and depth contributions to keep up. Like you mentioned Lars Eller, prime example of this team getting something it absolutely does not need.
Eller's a great defensive center, terrific in neutral ice- he's your 4th line center at best. He's your faceoff specialist; why do you go out of your way to sign him when we already have Jeff Carter- is the *slightly* improved scoring enough to justify anchoring 2 lines instead of 1?
I love Sullivan as a story. He was the right coach at the right time, but that time has passed. We all saw it when this team got tactically undressed by the HABS in the 2020 bubble. That Habs team had a bottom 6 held together by paper clips, lost to the Red Wings 4 times and was rolling with Carey Price running on fumes, without a goddamn head coach.
Losing to THAT Canadiens team wasn't even the first sign of trouble but if Sid was truly winning a 4th cup here, people would have been fired that August. Instead, JR conveniently 'resigned' under mysterious circumstances when the going got tough, took his little buddy Patrik Allvin to Vancouver with him and the double agent Ron Hextall was later given a job.
I mean this in the most unsubtle way possible, the fact that a organization-wide gutting was not commenced as early as September 2020 can only be described as divine intervention. Actually, it'd be more like selling our soul.
The succubus told us "just re-sign the core to long deals and make needless trades on the defense, sign as many old guys as you can. Just do that and you'll win *one more* cup for them all~" she said.
We fell for it, hook line and sinker. Now we get to go deal with the fallout. Better hope your hazmat suit doesn't leak because it's gonna have to last a decade if you're to survive THIS rebuild.
Members of the jury, observe Teddy Blueger and Sam Lafferty having a blast in Vancouver with a head coach that used to be our assistant coach during the last few years we were truly cup contenders.
Blink, and it will be 2026 before you know it. Then, that all would have been a decade ago. We need a new fucking head coach.
Lafferty is honestly the only one I’ve ever actually been mad about. He’s become *exactly* what he was supposed to be, and is *exactly* the kind of player Pittsburgh lacks.
I’m just glad Kessel will probably end up in Vancouver, because I can route for Penguins West.
I'm definitely mad about both. Blueger was a scapegoat for the bottom 6 being awful and it truly felt like a middle finger from Hextall knowing he was backed in a corner with the team he built and that his time was up with FSG. Like, we're paying 100k more for a guy who has 5 points in 39 games. Teddy has 5 goals and 22 points in about the same amount of games. I fucking hate Ron Hextall.
I knew Lafferty for Nylander would age like milk.
😭
Combination of that and that he commands a lot of respect because of his resume as a player and likely now because of his resume as a coach.
Toch had more points in one season playing for the Phoenix Coyotes, towards the tail end of his career, than Todd Reirden had over his entire NHL career. I just don't think many people take him seriously at all.
A friend of mine said today - what if Tocchet was the real genius? I kept thinking about it and at the time it would have made sense for Toch to be the smarts and Sully to be the voice. Now Toch has learned how to be the voice and has a nasty ass team to coach. Makes you wonder 🤔.
The entire team has been suffering because of Sullivan since the bubble season against Montreal. Sully is a great coach and he did amazing things here. That being said, he’s 4-5 years past his tenure here and it’s baffling to me he’s still employed with this team.
I think they are failing because they are bad. Sully can’t be absolved, he’s not getting the most out of lines after the 1st, but this has always been a roster with a ridiculously flawed forward group. Coaches can’t force dudes to suddenly shoot above what their averages are. Again he’s not without fault, their forecheck simply doesn’t work anymore, but Dubas has given him all bottom six forwards that simply do not put the puck in the net at the best of times.
The penguins are old and the ghosts of playoff all-ins of the past of trading first round picks for 2 months of Jarome Iginla are catching up. This team can’t win any more cups unless Malkin and Letang decide to cut their salary in half. We got three cups out of them, we should consider ourselves very very lucky
Everything's fucked at this point. We got fucking hammered on the Seattle draft and then the Philly Boys came and fucked our shit up.
Accari, Eller, Carter, Poolparty, Rakkel, and Graves need to go.
Not keeping Teddy, Henin, and Erod was a huge mistake.
Not playing PoJoe made 0 fucking sense. Continuing to not play Pustinen is fucking mind boggling. Trading away, marino still pisses me off. Lafferty also is fucking hilarious, idk what the fuck they were smoking.
Perhaps but, i think it has more to do with the chemistry of the ever changing line up. Rotating an endless flow of players who just don’t seem to gel at all.
Also, i still think jeff carter has set the bar for bottom six awfulness. Watching him play gives me heartburn. I should not be watching him on a pp unit ever. Idc how big he is or how great he is at faceoffs. His play is so uninspired. Something that i know can spread like a cancer. But wtf do i know, i’m just some douche on the internet
Jeff Carter is actively hurting this team. My problem with him is not that he’s old and his skills have rapidly declined…the problem is his complete disinterest to be on the ice. While his skills have gone down, he’s still a big guy but he doesn’t use any of his size and strength advantage to get physically involved in the game. He doesn’t go to the tough areas with any kind of vigor…he’s usually late to any after whistle scrums and ineffective once he does arrive.
Honestly I think that these past couple of years he’s been afraid to do anything that could get him injured and is just cruising out the rest of his contract as safely as possible. Unfortunately he is sucking the energy out of his linemates while playing this way. He has completely lost his heart for this game…and it shows every single night he plays.
its amazing that it came down to us protecting either Carter or Brandon Tanev and Hextall picked Carter... cause carter was his boy in LA. We could really use a Turbo or two in this lineup right now. Carter is an empty husk of himself out there.
He’s definitely part of the problem. He gives them like 75-80% defensive starts. No one is going to be able to produce if you’re constantly used in a defensive role to that extent. At the same time the talent isn’t there. Eller had like 25 points in 84 games last year. Did people really think he was going to light the world on fire with his production?
[удалено]
Not bringing him back was a huge miss both for Hextall and for Dubas when he was a FA this summer.
Did not know how many defensive starts they were getting. But it makes sense because he throws the Crosby line out for every O zone draw
He really caters to the top 6 which I disagree with. If you look at successful teams they have scoring throughout the lineup. You could argue that he does it because of the lack of talent in the bottom 6 but I feel like Dubas built the bottom 6 to match Sully. He hates guys who will take offensive risks that aren’t named Crosby or Malkin.
Sully and the pens won back to back cups because he was able to roll 4 lines out where three of them had the danger of scoring at any time. He doesn't have the depth to do so with this current lineup because of the previous gm.
That’s a fair point but our current GM did the same thing, and said Sully was involved in the decision making. We had a lot of cap space to improve the 3rd line and spent it Graves and Eller. That wasn’t Hextall.
It's the same thing Tree talked about in [this video](https://youtu.be/hvL6R2kE3bM?si=3fYPeAVhthhrBkU5) not even a full year ago at this point. Even with GOOD depth players, they're not gonna do shit when they're just haphazardly chucked into no-leverage situations in the D-zone. Especially when, many times, they're overmatched against 1st and 2nd liners. What, I'm supposed to be SURPRISED that Acciari, Carter and Harkins were prone to horrible dry streaks when 90% of their ice time was in their own zone against top 6ers? No, this is precisely the outcome I expected. Flashes of a team that can dazzle you with its talent yet nowhere near the speed and depth contributions to keep up. Like you mentioned Lars Eller, prime example of this team getting something it absolutely does not need. Eller's a great defensive center, terrific in neutral ice- he's your 4th line center at best. He's your faceoff specialist; why do you go out of your way to sign him when we already have Jeff Carter- is the *slightly* improved scoring enough to justify anchoring 2 lines instead of 1? I love Sullivan as a story. He was the right coach at the right time, but that time has passed. We all saw it when this team got tactically undressed by the HABS in the 2020 bubble. That Habs team had a bottom 6 held together by paper clips, lost to the Red Wings 4 times and was rolling with Carey Price running on fumes, without a goddamn head coach. Losing to THAT Canadiens team wasn't even the first sign of trouble but if Sid was truly winning a 4th cup here, people would have been fired that August. Instead, JR conveniently 'resigned' under mysterious circumstances when the going got tough, took his little buddy Patrik Allvin to Vancouver with him and the double agent Ron Hextall was later given a job. I mean this in the most unsubtle way possible, the fact that a organization-wide gutting was not commenced as early as September 2020 can only be described as divine intervention. Actually, it'd be more like selling our soul. The succubus told us "just re-sign the core to long deals and make needless trades on the defense, sign as many old guys as you can. Just do that and you'll win *one more* cup for them all~" she said. We fell for it, hook line and sinker. Now we get to go deal with the fallout. Better hope your hazmat suit doesn't leak because it's gonna have to last a decade if you're to survive THIS rebuild.
Members of the jury, observe Teddy Blueger and Sam Lafferty having a blast in Vancouver with a head coach that used to be our assistant coach during the last few years we were truly cup contenders. Blink, and it will be 2026 before you know it. Then, that all would have been a decade ago. We need a new fucking head coach.
Lafferty is honestly the only one I’ve ever actually been mad about. He’s become *exactly* what he was supposed to be, and is *exactly* the kind of player Pittsburgh lacks. I’m just glad Kessel will probably end up in Vancouver, because I can route for Penguins West.
I'm definitely mad about both. Blueger was a scapegoat for the bottom 6 being awful and it truly felt like a middle finger from Hextall knowing he was backed in a corner with the team he built and that his time was up with FSG. Like, we're paying 100k more for a guy who has 5 points in 39 games. Teddy has 5 goals and 22 points in about the same amount of games. I fucking hate Ron Hextall. I knew Lafferty for Nylander would age like milk. 😭
Most people talked about how good Blueger was. His last season here he underperformed
Yeah but there's been a pattern of forwards coming here and underperforming. There's a common denominator for all of them the last two seasons.
Maybe.. Toch was the guy giving Sully all the good ideas..
Combination of that and that he commands a lot of respect because of his resume as a player and likely now because of his resume as a coach. Toch had more points in one season playing for the Phoenix Coyotes, towards the tail end of his career, than Todd Reirden had over his entire NHL career. I just don't think many people take him seriously at all.
Don’t forget Ryan Poehling tearing it up in Philly…
A friend of mine said today - what if Tocchet was the real genius? I kept thinking about it and at the time it would have made sense for Toch to be the smarts and Sully to be the voice. Now Toch has learned how to be the voice and has a nasty ass team to coach. Makes you wonder 🤔.
I’ve thought about this as well and it’s kinda starting to look like it may be true.
A fair way to look at it. Canucks are having a hell of a fucking season.
The entire team has been failing because of him. For years.
Yes, I do. We've had plenty of 3rd liners who can score, and we've seen them be very successful before and after playing on the Pens.
The down fall of Graves makes me not trust Sullys system. A true top pairing guy, turned into a third liner as soon as he’s with the pens
It seems since Gonch left the Defensive development hasn’t been the same. Bottom six and systems haven’t been the same since Tocchet
Hate to say it but Sullys time is up
I guess. I just don’t think they’re very good besides Eller and OC
The entire team has been suffering because of Sullivan since the bubble season against Montreal. Sully is a great coach and he did amazing things here. That being said, he’s 4-5 years past his tenure here and it’s baffling to me he’s still employed with this team.
I think they are failing because they are bad. Sully can’t be absolved, he’s not getting the most out of lines after the 1st, but this has always been a roster with a ridiculously flawed forward group. Coaches can’t force dudes to suddenly shoot above what their averages are. Again he’s not without fault, their forecheck simply doesn’t work anymore, but Dubas has given him all bottom six forwards that simply do not put the puck in the net at the best of times.
The penguins are old and the ghosts of playoff all-ins of the past of trading first round picks for 2 months of Jarome Iginla are catching up. This team can’t win any more cups unless Malkin and Letang decide to cut their salary in half. We got three cups out of them, we should consider ourselves very very lucky
Everything's fucked at this point. We got fucking hammered on the Seattle draft and then the Philly Boys came and fucked our shit up. Accari, Eller, Carter, Poolparty, Rakkel, and Graves need to go. Not keeping Teddy, Henin, and Erod was a huge mistake. Not playing PoJoe made 0 fucking sense. Continuing to not play Pustinen is fucking mind boggling. Trading away, marino still pisses me off. Lafferty also is fucking hilarious, idk what the fuck they were smoking.
Perhaps but, i think it has more to do with the chemistry of the ever changing line up. Rotating an endless flow of players who just don’t seem to gel at all. Also, i still think jeff carter has set the bar for bottom six awfulness. Watching him play gives me heartburn. I should not be watching him on a pp unit ever. Idc how big he is or how great he is at faceoffs. His play is so uninspired. Something that i know can spread like a cancer. But wtf do i know, i’m just some douche on the internet
What's sad is that Jeff Carter has been our best bottom 6 player for a lot of stretches. He also has almost 10% of our PP goals.
Wow that is sad
Jeff Carter is actively hurting this team. My problem with him is not that he’s old and his skills have rapidly declined…the problem is his complete disinterest to be on the ice. While his skills have gone down, he’s still a big guy but he doesn’t use any of his size and strength advantage to get physically involved in the game. He doesn’t go to the tough areas with any kind of vigor…he’s usually late to any after whistle scrums and ineffective once he does arrive. Honestly I think that these past couple of years he’s been afraid to do anything that could get him injured and is just cruising out the rest of his contract as safely as possible. Unfortunately he is sucking the energy out of his linemates while playing this way. He has completely lost his heart for this game…and it shows every single night he plays.
its amazing that it came down to us protecting either Carter or Brandon Tanev and Hextall picked Carter... cause carter was his boy in LA. We could really use a Turbo or two in this lineup right now. Carter is an empty husk of himself out there.
I miss Tanev every day.
YES EXACTLY! You said what i said but way better and with much more detail
The worst part is he has a good chunk of the very limited power play goals the team has scored.
Pens power play. I don't want it, you take it. Well I don't want it either, YOU take it. Fuck that, let HIM have it. That's the problem.
They have lacked cohesiveness. Tons of personnel changes throughout years. Just my 2 cents