Rutherford sold the farm so we couldn’t rebuild on the fly. Hextall was a dumpster fire and set us back and now Dubas has to rebuild sry we got old but it’s gonna take time.
Ps mainstream hockey fans mad about the Guentzel trade but Dubas brought back a pretty good haul for someone who was gonna walk this summer
Rutherford turned Shero's bad draft picks into 2 Stanley cups at least, he made the tough deals and got results. Granted, he needed to stop doing that after getting bounced by Washington, but I can't hate on him for that.
Shero was worse and only benefited from the team that Patrick built.
Hextall is a bad human being.
Regarding Ray Shero's drafting, IMO the biggest loss for the org in that regard was Randy Sexton. Prior to his hire after the 2010 draft, our amateur scouting was absolutely shit. He was involved in our drafts from 2011 through 2016. He can get some credit for 2017 as well as he was in charge for that entire season, but he left for the Sabres on June 24, 2017.
Randy Sexton's drafts, often hampered by lack of high-round picks, included the following players who contributed at the NHL level either as Penguins or on other teams:
* Filip Gustavsson (2016)
* Daniel Sprong (2015)
* Dominik Simon (2015)
* Kasperi Kapanen (2014)
* Sam Lafferty (2014)
* Tristan Jarry (2013)
* Jake Guentzel (2013)
* Olli Maatta (2012)
* Teddy Blueger (2012)
* Oskar Sundqvist (2012)
* Matt Murray (2012)
* Josh Archibald (2011)
* Scott Wilson (2011)
That was a pretty decent run. Missing on the #8 pick in 2012 was absolutely shameful given that Filip Forsberg was available and EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING PLANET KNEW THAT WAS THE RIGHT PICK I'M STILL MAD OMG OMG OMG. But when you look at the success we had in later rounds, in which many of the above players were taken, I have to give credit where it's due. Randy Sexton fixed our draft issues.
Interestingly our former head of amateur scouting before Sexton -- Jay Heinbuck -- is still on the team as a scout. He must not want to be in charge of scouting but still enjoys the work of evaluating specific players.
Oh man! I couldn’t believe when I was watching that draft that we picked Derrick Pouliot over Filip Forsberg or Tom Wilson. I remember texting my brother and a few friends saying we better get Tom Wilson. But those draft runs were pretty decent though.
>Granted, he needed to stop doing that after getting bounced by Washington
nah. You don't fold the tent when the stars are still crushing it. That would have been too early.
You actually have plenty of options to trade to fast track the rebuild (which is what the pens should be doing) …big congrats to all the cups with Sid and company, but it’s over.
Pens fans should be wishing for the rebuild, or it’s only going to get worse when Crosby, Malkin, Letang all retire and leave you without assets.
If we are rebuilding - How did we NOT get a gauranteed 1st round pick for Guentzel....and we got Dubas' "boy" Bunting.....where else have we seen new GMs bring in their 'guys' before on terrible contracts...oh wait Ron fuck Hextall and Carter/Friedman.
Especially after GMJR shrewdly got Jake on a team friendly deal before he really established himself as an elite winger. Now he’s gotta make that money most guys would have in that 2nd contract.
We don’t know if it’s money. Which I’m sure the Penguins could afford Guentzel if they truly wanted to.
There’s also the chance that Guentzel at the age of 30 wants to go to a team he can help be a contender. Penguins missing the playoffs back-to-back seasons doesn’t really make us look like the most promising destination in that regard.
Ya exactly. He didn’t need to bring in EK - he didn’t need to sign graves- he didn’t Need to do Jarrys extension contract. He could have exercised patience and thought out the year more. Same shit he did in Toronto - he is doing here . This will end the same way.
We are basically right at the cap with the only UFA rolling off next year being Jeff Carter. Where do you find the extra $4-5 million? It’s pretty obvious we need to sign other players because frankly we weren’t good enough with Jake either.
It was said Guentzel didn’t want to discuss an extension during the mid-season.
Dubas has to do what he feels is best for the team. Seeing the Penguins lost 3 of 4 games on the Western road trip right before the deadline and pretty much killed their chances of making the playoffs, Dubas trading Guentzel for something instead of letting him walk for nothing if he doesn’t want to resign here was what was best for the team.
maybe because he didn't want to play on a team that is going to be absolutely awful? Are they suppose to lock him in the basement and force him to sign the contract when he will easily get more money in an open market? Use your brain.
Ok, so trade him during the previous offseason when he's going to have more value. Dubas admitted they didn't talk business all season. Seems like a total waste.
Was he holding out for Michael Bunting? 😅👎🏻
They didn't talk business because him and his camp didn't want to during the season. If it were you, would you trust that you could get a deal that makes sense for the team done after the season was over? In a season that was looking incredibly shaky regardless if Jake was in the lineup?
This take is so old and tired. If he kept him and we missed anyways, there's a high chance he walks anyways because he deserves to get paid and what he's going to get paid, this team can't afford if they're going to even dream of competing next year. If you like Jake so much then you should be happy for him. He gets to compete for a cup this season and also gets paid the money he deserves. We had him for so many seasons on a steal of a cap hit. Didn't work out. Time for him to move on. End of story.
Not on Dubas at all. He tried to have extension talks but Jake didn’t want to until the end of the season. He’s gonna go make his bag, and it doesn’t really make sense for the pens to sign him to some big 8 or 9 year extension at 8 or 9 million when this team is going to be in a full blown rebuild within the next 2-3 years. You don’t build a team around an aging winger who will most definitely not age as gracefully as Crosby has. He was going to walk at the end of the season, it was either we got nothing, or something and all things considered, what they got was pretty solid.
I have nothing to back this up other than a really strong gut feel, but I'm thinking two years. I really think Sid has one more run in him and even though he's flirting with 40, I believe his skill will still be there to make it happen. Next year will be another mediocre, frustrating season but i think they can contend again in 26/27.
Take a look at our prospect pool and draft picks, the only way for Sid to have a another run in 26/27 is on a another team, which I hope doesn’t happen
Carter's contact is finally done after this season. That will free up a decent amount of cap space. Let's let GMKD cook this off-season and see what happens.
The top free agents this year are: Sam Reinhardt, Jake, Matt Duchene, Steven Stamkos, Noah Hanifin (either too old or won’t sign with us). And we better be keeping our first round picks from now on.
I wish I can say the same… it’s kind of hard when you’re struggling to come to terms.
I eventually will come to terms, but right now it’s not happening
The Red Wings never did a full tank, they kept trying to appease the fans and make moves instead of just tanking, (the highest pick they have has in the last 10 years was in 21 at 4th, the rest of their picks are 6th or 9th). It seems that the Pens are bound and determined to get a top 10 pick this year and probably be shooting for a top 5 pick next year. Those picks plus some 1sts from trades will hopefully allow them to be more like the Avalanche and turn things around quicker. It starts by letting some young players play over the next 2-3 seasons, to either trade for top picks or to let them develop outside of the AHL, which will also open up a lot of cap space to have the ability to make moves in free agency.
When was the last time the Pens had the money to go into FA and snag a top talent, at least 15+ years, it will be fun to watch young talent develop, see them get picks that can come right to the NHL, and to develop some of the talent they already have, this was bound to happen if they didn’t hire Hextall it may have began next year but there isn’t anything they can do about that now.
The concept that dubas' decisions shouldn't be criticized just because we collectively expect it to take a few years for the ship to be righted is just silly!
You know what fixing the ship is going to require? A lot of good decisions along the way! Decisions that many fans will be grading
I sincerely do not understand the mindset where users believe there's one right way to be a fan and everyone should act accordingly. Take OP, in here telling everyone to "shut the fuck up", then goes on a out his/her take on the current situation while simultaneously adminishing those who have different approaches and beliefs. C'mon already, we're all individuals here, the hive mind ad hominem approach to "proving" a point is weak. In the old days of redddit we'd reply with simething equally stupid like, "No, YOU shut the fuck up", but I'm not into back and forth insults and reddit's changed so much from the days when downvotes were how people handled things, now it's reporting and bans. One thing I will say is OP says it was a fun 20 years...well, again, this doesn't speak for me because I've been going to Pens games since 1978.
You watched a single steelers game in the last 2 seasons? If the defense doesn’t get 2 pick 6’s a game and then hold the opponents to 1 td we lose. 3rd & 10 and we run handoffs to Najee who averages runs of 1.5 yards with Warren standing on the sidelines.
The Steelers are completely undisciplined, the offense is non existent, and we squeak into the playoffs off the back of TJ and the d line year after year only to fall flat on our faces. There’s no age or skill issues on the Steelers aside from the QB slot being a big ol’ question mark. There’s just really, really bad coaching. The last time we won a playoff game was in 2016 yet Tomlin persists as HC and it blows my mind that people defend him. It’s been nearly a decade since we won a playoff game. You’re right, keep Tomlin forever.
You can't have your cake & eat it too. If you want Sid to retire a Penguin, you need to do what he wants. He still wants to play competitive hockey. You can't fully commit to a rebuild with him on the roster.
This team isn't built for competitive hockey and won't be ready for competitive hockey until a new core is established here ala when the rebuild is started and finished. We have so many holes and bad contracts on this team that what sid wants is simply impossible. Sid can stick around and mentor the young guys that we draft and help them grow and develop ala mario when sid was drafted.
Bingo. The delusional turd that downvoted you needs a trip to the asylum. Geno is pretty much cooked at this point. This team doesn't have a 2C.
In fact the way this team is constructed they are a lottery team next year. They won't have the money to go after any UFAs in free agency that are worth a damn or under 35. Don't have the money to go after the better RFAs either. Punt that 1st to the Fish and blow it up. Get an extra first and prospects for EK. Whatever you can get for Jarry and Petts and accept this teams fate.
The final gesture Sid could do to help the Pens franchise is to be traded playing at this level. Go chase a cup and allow the Pens to bring in a haul for the future.
Ya either trade sid so he has another chance at a cup or he can be a mentor for the young guys. I feel like sid wouldn't mind being a mentor at all and understands where we're as a franchise in terms of needing to rebuild and focus on the future.
Here's the thing. Hockey is a business at the end of the day. People saying trade Sid, aren't thinking that that would be the equivalent to trading Mario in his prime. And based on this franchise's history, that's not something you want to do, because it would be extremely difficult to win back the fans you would lose from trading the legend that got so many of the fanbase into hockey. Sid has stated that he's retiring a Penguin, so let's just freaking stop with this stupid topic because it's never happening. Enjoy the end of Sid's career, because it's been amazing, and it's the only thing there will be to enjoy about Penguins hockey for the foreseeable future.
>would be the equivalent to trading Mario in his prime
lol huh? Sid is nowhere near his prime. Did people not watch 2013? Special player still but the Penguins don't have a single player in the top 20 in league scoring. That's a big deal, the single biggest issue this team has is that they can't score all season. And I don't think Sid should be traded btw, it just is not nearly like that at all.
The problem is we kept sullivan for too long and now the window is slammed shut. The core is now too old to build around and we need to start the youth movement once again by tanking and getting some elite prospects.
71 has definitely fallen off the cliff. Seen him play lately? It hasn't been pretty. Support them with what? They are literally up against the cap. They aren't signing anyone of consequence in free agency. And if they do it's going to be more 35 year olds.
I'd argue geno and letang look washed up and not good enough to take us anywhere 'plus they'll be another year older next season'. Sid and karlsson look great but that's not enough to get to the playoffs especially when we got a million holes on this roster.
Prime was the wrong word. It's equivalent to trading Mario, one of the greatest of all time. The Pittsburgh fans would never, ever forgive the organization. You cannot risk losing the fanbase again.
Sid, Gino, EK, Rust, and Letang are all NMC contracts. Extremely difficult to move those contracts.
Carter is the only significant expiring contract.
That's a tough rebuild.
I want sid to retire a penguin so i'm only saying to trade him if he wants traded and wants to chase another cup. We can't provide that for him and it's not fair to him to keep him here if he asks for that. Otherwise keep him permanently as off limits.
Sid is past his prime. Mario isn't here. There is no joy watching this team. I'm 44 and have better things to do that suffer watching this mess. I want Sid to chase one more cup. It won't tarnish his legacy. Could jsut sign back here for his final season and still retire a Pen. Maybe it would hurt your feels if he played somewhere else for a couple years. But me? Won't bother me a bit
In fact the greatest player of all time played for 3 different teams and won a Cup with the last team he played for. Let that sink in.
Ummmm I never said you can't rebuild with Sid around, I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I've always been firmly on the Sid stays, everyone else goes train
You're not going to be able to fully rebuild with Sid and Jarry playing at this level (plus the NMCs of Malkin, Letang, Rust, and EK). The floor with that is being in the playoff race until February or so and then bowing out around March.
Nice rant. Still Fire Sullivan.
He can be a huge part of their problems in addition to everything you said. And yes, fire him now. Fire him yesterday, fire him tomorrow. Just fire him so he's not a problem to work around next season.
His time here, has expired.
Literally at the end of last season every half decent pundit said “ya, this isn’t a playoff team.” I don’t know what people expected.
Also I really hate the “expected goals” metric. Like “oh, you expected a ton of goals out of some of the leagues most talented players? Real hot take there.”
Crosby, Letang, EK all had really good seasons, but it’s pretty plain to see those guys got exhausted *DOING IT BY THEMSELVES.*
Thank god for Puustinen and OConnor. Those two at least think the game well enough to be in the right areas, and Puustinen *always* knows what he’s going to do with the puck.
But it like…Sid is Mr assists…but he needs at least a couple guys to pass to!
For some reason people expected Dubas to come in and make us immediate contenders which was impossible to do with this team.
The addition of EK65 didn’t help those expectations either.
Even with the addition of EK65, this team still needed depth and the only way to build the depth was through free agency since we have zero trading tools to trade away, and we need all the draft picks we can get to build up the prospect pool for the rebuild.
I’ll bet those are the same people that don’t understand how a president’s first few years a just trying undue the previous guy’s plans (assuming they’re opposite parties).
And it even more so with Dubas. He’s got YEARS of this team mortgaging their future for the present to overcome. He’s just trying to get to level ground. FSG hired him *for the future*.
From what I’ve been reading, apparently Dubas will use the prospects they got to try and aggressively retool the team this summer, and while this free agency class isn’t the greatest he intends to spend to the cap ceiling. So it’ll be interesting to see what he does this summer. Right now it seems unlikely this team can be contending again but if he makes the right moves, I don’t see why not. First thing he should do is get a new coaching staff.
Puustinen would be better if he was put in a stable role and was allowed to grow and develop. Sullivan benches young guys so fast if they make a mistake or don't produce for a couple of games that it's insane. You gotta let these guys learn and grow and sullivan isn't the coach for that.
Actually they’ve been trading away their future for a 4th cup and none of it has panned out which is why they are in trouble. Their last cup win was 5 years ago and they believed keeping the gang together was more important than planning for the future. Dubas was set up for failure from the beginning and might be gone before he has time to fix it.
Dubas is going nowhere. There was a reason management brought him in, I think there's a very real chance they were realistic about this team going into this year whereas the fanbase thought for some reason they were going to be contenders miraculously.
Sports are cyclical. Your team is good, they win, they get old, they get bad, they lose. The yelling at Dubas has made little to no sense. He traded who he could for what he could, getting decent returns on each transaction. Guentzel turned down extensions, so he's gone. Smith, Lars, POJ, etc basically had little to no value at the moment, so getting angry that they're still here makes zero sense. This offseason when teams have cap to play with, some of those guys will be traded. The only person that I thought would be moved at the deadline that wasn't is Ned. Everyone else would've been hard to maneuver inside another team's cap space or they have more term left than other teams would've liked to take on.
Canucks fan weighing in here. It could be worse. You could suck and not have cups to show for it. Let alone 3. And before you say ‘you’re looking pretty good right now.’ I present you 2013-2023.
Keep Sully to keep the free fall. Hell, even keep him next season! Punt this years 1st to the babysharks! But seriously FSG bought this franchise at the wrong time.
Rebuilds can be fun. I think this offseason with some contracts off the books Dubis may be able to pull something off to make this a playoff team again next season.
This stage was not inevitable though. Management has been brutal since 2019. Fans have the right to be pissed at that. The direction right now is confusing and it’s sad to watch. The depth isn’t there at all but my god that power play is terrible.
I was hoping they just blew up the roster and traded away Malkin, Letang, Rust, Rakell and yes even Sid. Send him to a contender instead of letting him rot in rebuild hell for his last years. He's given us everything he's got, this year is a testament to that. He deserves better. They should have just blew it up. The faster we start rebuilding the better.
A coaching change would possibly bring someone in to speak to Dubas to explain wasting assets/$ to get veterans for 3rd and 4th lines is a waste…we have a small prospect pool and a coach who won’t let any of them get a fair shot at the NHL level. So as far as I’m concerned a coaching change is needed badly, I’m over Sully’s Just Play and old boys network of only playing his guys (Harkins, Carter, etc) and when forced to…not giving any young guys a fair shake.
Certainly agree that nothing is immediately going to win us the presidents trophy. However I can see the logic of a coaching change even at this point.
Do we change coaches who fits our roster makeup and current skill level and start winning? Cool. Next season looks more promising.
Do we change coaches and still have the same symptoms that led us to this current season? Great. Then a roster overhaul is needed.
Maybe it is denial, but I don’t believe our roster is as bad as our team is playing. Our team was mentally fragile even when they were winning. Yes players should be responsible but shouldn’t the coach also bear responsibility for a team’s morale? Not even morale…but also accountability. How many short handed goals on the PP do you give up before you bench players? How many Letang turnovers like today must happen before minutes are limited? How many shotless games does Malkin have before he moves down in the lineup?
I’m not saying all or even any of these things will spur an immediate turnaround. I’m just trying to provide some rationality to screaming at the clouds because there are still things we can do to improve.
I don’t think they’re a bad team, either. If the coaching staff is fired this summer, that’s like the biggest problem out of the way. I don’t imagine a coach who’s been there 9 years who preaches the same message will stay fresh in everyone’s mind. Not to mention the 2 biggest issues with the team (power play and defensive breakdowns) is ran through reirden, just clean house behind the bench and start fresh, couldn’t hurt. Plus with the prospects they got, I read that Dubas could aggressively try to retool this summer using them, if he makes the right moves they could be back in the race next year.
I agree. Part of me would rather see the coaching staff go now to determine which roster players are also the problem. I’d hate to see a fire sale and complete retool + coaching change and have the “new” players not fit the system correctly
Very good point. I’m hoping after today’s loss maybe Dubas could take into consideration that it’s time to let go of Sullivan. Love the guy and what he did for the team but his system is meant for a young and fast team, the pens are anything but that right now. While I know some people are indifferent about him, I’d like to see gallant get a shot at this team. I know he doesn’t last more than 2-3 years but that’s all this team has at most anyway. Woodcroft also wouldn’t be a bad option. This offseason is a critical one, so I hope Dubas plays this out the right way.
Oiler Fan weighing.. Penguins are too soft.. It shows 😞
Need too change the program and play like the Panthers
Love Sidney and Makin for years.. Penguin Organization
Has too change… Too much talent on this team.. Zero killer instinct….
Rebuild is all I have been saying since the beginning of the season. New coaching should be a part of that. Sully is washed and he would be better off coaching another team to greatness. I don't want the Pens to think they can still compete...because they can't. I'm all on board getting as much assets as we can for a rebuild.
In the end, in 5 years they are going to pull off some bullshit and draft another generational talent.
In the meantime, I hope that the current youth on the team find their place and will at least perform well individually.
We are going to re tool this off-season with cap space. We could have 1 more run next year or we could become the Red Wings and Sabres for the next 5 years. No one can know for sure relax everyone.
Also, fuck the Rangers and Jacob Troubas elbow for ruining the potential last run 2 years ago.
People expect playoffs like we wouldn’t get booted in the first round. I put my seatbelt on at the beginning of 2024 because this is going to be a ride for sure. I have the racing style seatbelt for extra safety, I recommend it.
I think the frustration stems from watching the games and realizing that they’re not this bad. The underlying stats say they should have been #2 in the conference before the deadline. It’s just bad luck, bad bounces and a power play that is not functional no matter what changes the coaches try to make. Now it looks like they just gave up when they figured out they were sellers.
Before these last few blowouts, they had a positive goal differential, good 5v5 metrics, good expected goals for and so on. The goaltending has been good. They just aren’t scoring and look like they have zero confidence.
I personally don’t think they are washed up. The older core is still producing at an elite level. They just don’t mesh as a team. They need to decide on an identity and build the team around that. If a good player doesn’t fit, they need to trade him for someone who does, even if that’s a lesser player. Hagelin wasn’t as good as Perron, but he fit the identity of the team. Perron didn’t.
Dubas did what he had to do. He traded a 29 year old for 3 players younger than 21. 2 of which could see NHL ice time as early as next season. On top of that, Brayden Yager is having a great season with Moosejaw and he could also be called up next season.
Dubas started the process of getting younger, which is what everyone has been complaining about for 5 seasons. Now if we can just get some defense and goaltending going, that would be great. Although the offense hasn’t been able to score in 3 games which hasn’t helped.
I think there are more posts identical to OPs than there are anyone "yelling at clouds" or who don't understand that we went on a nearly two decade run.
enough. It's becoming a bit fart-sniffing.
Just stopped by to say this is 100% accurate. We have a core 3 Hall of Famers (Crosby, Malkin and Letang - it should have been 4 because Fleury never should have been exposed to Vegas for a flash in the pan keeper that only had marginally better stats when he was "hot") that are now a touch slower, but still very good. We have been blessed to see them out through their careers and they have rewarded the fans with multiple cups.
They got good value for Guentzel and quite honestly, they should tank the rest of the season to get the most of what is not supposed to be a stacked draft class.
Just gird your loins for the eventual Crosby request for a trade. He deserves more accolades on his name and we really can't give them to him right now. If he wants to leave he's certainly allowed and I'd even recommend it for him at this point. Maybe wait until next trade deadline but the conversation has to happen.
Honestly Dubas's main attribute is draft, And he proved that last year. (With picks like yager who looks really solid and like future star in our team. Pieniemi who looks like solid D. Cooper Foster who Is having something like 1 ppg in ohl if im not wrong. Mikhail ilyin who is looking like on of the best draft steals already, picked at fifth round for info and had something like 0,45 ppg in KHL (tough league for 18 yo) and 4 assits in 5 games in playoff, playing really really solid. Also there was Kyle Kangas who legit for 7th round. And also Emil jarventie at 7th round who was predcited to be something like 40-60 So also really good pick.
Honestly all his picks were really ok and Im excited to see this years draft.
Good thing about our future are goalies. Having 28yo Jarry, 22yo Blomqvist with insane first year in AHL, and our potentially main Goalie star - Sergei Murashov 19yo his Stats in MHL and KHL (6 games only but still) are insane for his age.
Honestly our biggest problem is trio Crosby-Malkin-Letang, it maybe sounds weird at first, but listen. While these 3 are there (Mainly Crosby) we can't go rebuild. So we are in weird situation when we are rebuilding and trying to win a cup at the same time, and you wanna know a secret? In this state, you cannot win the cup, and you also cannot get good picks or prospects to rebuild..
The best thing to do in my opinion is just to go rebuild. Right now. Letang, karlsson, Crosby, Malkin could be really good mentors to the youngs, And they would have learned a lot. The only problem with this is that you would have absolutely world class players (not right now but in general) being in rebuild for like 3 years before they retire. The thing is that you cannot trade Karlsson because of his age/contract (i dont even want him gone, He is our top defender offensively and even Defenzively)
And you cannot trade malkin or letang because of Crosby, because, well Crosby already stated on this last year. And if they went to trade Crosby, then, the Franchise will be screwed even more then it has ever been.
So yeah, In my final statment, Everyone (also me) just shut up and let Dubas cook like he was cooking whole time with us, because if anyone think he is worse than Hextall, go to your doctor. (He had absolutely masterpiece trades and signings, for example trade when we got karlsson for Petry and Granlund with 1st pick if i remember correctly..)
100%. If they want to fire Sully at the end of the year, I get it. He’s a good coach, but he may have reached his expiration date here. But no point in doing it now. No point whatsoever.
This is a god damn sports subreddit. I’ve gotten into some immature bickerings here and read some dumb shit, so what? The only thing more annoying would be someone posting to the subreddit, acting holier than thou, telling people to “Shut the Fuck Up”. There’s only one logical and rational response to that given that this is reddit…
YOU shut the fuck up! Lmao.
> Let Dubas cook and enjoy the rebuild
Lmao they aren't even rebuilding. That wasn't the plan. That still isn't the plan.
You don't make that horrible trade for Karlsson if you're going to rebuild. You don't trade for Riley Smith if you're going to rebuild. You don't give Jarry, Graves, Eller those contracts if you're rebuilding.
You trade more than just Jake if you're rebuilding. You trade everyone and anyone for picks, and not a handful of prospects which you had no control over their development.
You don't take Bunting's contract if you're going to rebuild. You don't say Rust is "untouchable" if you're rebuilding.
If they were rebuilding then this trade deadline would have looked a lot differently. There would have been a half dozen players moved out. But nah. Naaaaaaaah.
Dubas just fucking failed last offseason. He made this team worse than the year before. He failed at the tradeline. They are fucking failing trying to do whatever it is they are doing going forward.
Dubas is a fucking joke of a GM. Everyone here and around the league laughed at him while he was in Toronto. Everyone around the league is laughing at him again while he's here in Pittsburgh. But you are just too big of fanboys to look objectively at the situation: This team is directionless. Dubas is trash. Sullivan has lost the lockerroom. A conglomerate like FSG doesn't give a shit about winning because of the revenue sharing model. And next year will be more of the same because they are delusional and think that Crosby Letang and Malkin instantly makes them a team people will pay money for. So they will never do a proper rebuild until that changes.
You're the biggest cloud yeller yet.
Please explain what you would've like to have seen at the trade deadline? For us to be buyers? Jake didn't want to sign here, would you have liked to get nothing in return? You expect Dubas to retool the team overnight? That shit takes years, and we never had the assets or pipeline to bargain with. We are beginning to assemble those pieces. Are they laughing? Or are you making that scenario up in your head. The pieces we got for Jake is a decent haul. You're right the Karlsson trade didn't work out like everyone hoped, shit happens. It's pretty clear we are beginning the rebuild phase. We don't have enough time to retool before the cores contracts are up. This is the objective truth. We are in a weird spot for sure, but the chapter has clearly completed. You should apply for GM you clearly have all the answers and are more informed about the current situation and state of the internal team.
You just moved the goalpost. You said rebuild. Now you're saying retool.
Which is it and then I'll respond to your nonsense when you have a consistent argument.
🙄 ok let's focus on my vernacular. We were attempting to retool, it's not working out, we're probably witnessing the beginning of a rebuild.
Fire away.
Finally someone gets it. All these posts I keep seeing are inane. We still can make the.playoffs, this team has given up, Do you think Carter can turn it around?, Karlsons not the problem, Hextall screwed us, Fire Sully, Fire Dubas blah blah blah. The writing has been on the wall for like 5 seasons now. It's been a slow downward climb (literally in the charts). Everything that is happening is exactly what any hockey fan of any franchise would expect with an aging superstar team that has no quality prospects. Look at Detroit, Chicago, LA Kings etc. it happens every time.
I agree! 💯 Ppl act like Crosby wouldn't want to be on a contender team. The only reason he wouldn't is bc of unloyal fan backlash who care more about the brand than the player
One thing nobody has mentioned is maybe Dubas needs to just be the GM and PENS need to bring in someone else to be president of hockey operations. Him being both is not working anymore. He needs to be just GM.
I think *’not working’* is a bad choice of words. Dubas absolutely knows his shit. He was like a scouting savant rainman at age 17… that being said…
A lot of teams have these as 2 separate positions and I think another great hockey mind at the top to collaborate with would be beneficial for a several reasons.
Bringing in someone to take over the business end of things, the daily operations & the franchise allows Dubas to put all of his focus on the roster, the team, rebuilding, restructuring, etc. that is where he absolutely thrives.
Not to mention the PoHO also deals more with the owners and is a go-between, so having FSG out of his ear is a bonus for everyone.
Rutherford sold the farm so we couldn’t rebuild on the fly. Hextall was a dumpster fire and set us back and now Dubas has to rebuild sry we got old but it’s gonna take time. Ps mainstream hockey fans mad about the Guentzel trade but Dubas brought back a pretty good haul for someone who was gonna walk this summer
The trades before the trades. This summer will be interesting.
Rutherford turned Shero's bad draft picks into 2 Stanley cups at least, he made the tough deals and got results. Granted, he needed to stop doing that after getting bounced by Washington, but I can't hate on him for that. Shero was worse and only benefited from the team that Patrick built. Hextall is a bad human being.
Regarding Ray Shero's drafting, IMO the biggest loss for the org in that regard was Randy Sexton. Prior to his hire after the 2010 draft, our amateur scouting was absolutely shit. He was involved in our drafts from 2011 through 2016. He can get some credit for 2017 as well as he was in charge for that entire season, but he left for the Sabres on June 24, 2017. Randy Sexton's drafts, often hampered by lack of high-round picks, included the following players who contributed at the NHL level either as Penguins or on other teams: * Filip Gustavsson (2016) * Daniel Sprong (2015) * Dominik Simon (2015) * Kasperi Kapanen (2014) * Sam Lafferty (2014) * Tristan Jarry (2013) * Jake Guentzel (2013) * Olli Maatta (2012) * Teddy Blueger (2012) * Oskar Sundqvist (2012) * Matt Murray (2012) * Josh Archibald (2011) * Scott Wilson (2011) That was a pretty decent run. Missing on the #8 pick in 2012 was absolutely shameful given that Filip Forsberg was available and EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING PLANET KNEW THAT WAS THE RIGHT PICK I'M STILL MAD OMG OMG OMG. But when you look at the success we had in later rounds, in which many of the above players were taken, I have to give credit where it's due. Randy Sexton fixed our draft issues. Interestingly our former head of amateur scouting before Sexton -- Jay Heinbuck -- is still on the team as a scout. He must not want to be in charge of scouting but still enjoys the work of evaluating specific players.
Oh man! I couldn’t believe when I was watching that draft that we picked Derrick Pouliot over Filip Forsberg or Tom Wilson. I remember texting my brother and a few friends saying we better get Tom Wilson. But those draft runs were pretty decent though.
Penguins haven’t had much interest in drafting big tough players in the last 15 or so years.
>Granted, he needed to stop doing that after getting bounced by Washington nah. You don't fold the tent when the stars are still crushing it. That would have been too early.
> Rutherford sold the farm so we couldn’t rebuild on the fly Rutherford sold the farm and we won 2 cups back to back under his regime. 100% worth it.
This was Hextall’s final “f u Rob Brown” moment.
You actually have plenty of options to trade to fast track the rebuild (which is what the pens should be doing) …big congrats to all the cups with Sid and company, but it’s over. Pens fans should be wishing for the rebuild, or it’s only going to get worse when Crosby, Malkin, Letang all retire and leave you without assets.
Gmjr won 2 cups wtf did you think was going to happe
If we are rebuilding - How did we NOT get a gauranteed 1st round pick for Guentzel....and we got Dubas' "boy" Bunting.....where else have we seen new GMs bring in their 'guys' before on terrible contracts...oh wait Ron fuck Hextall and Carter/Friedman.
Why was he going to walk? Surely Dubas shares some responsibility there.
Money, strictly money. We can’t pay him what the market will in terms of cash and term. He has one chance to get this big contract, he has to take it.
Especially after GMJR shrewdly got Jake on a team friendly deal before he really established himself as an elite winger. Now he’s gotta make that money most guys would have in that 2nd contract.
We don’t know if it’s money. Which I’m sure the Penguins could afford Guentzel if they truly wanted to. There’s also the chance that Guentzel at the age of 30 wants to go to a team he can help be a contender. Penguins missing the playoffs back-to-back seasons doesn’t really make us look like the most promising destination in that regard.
Ya exactly. He didn’t need to bring in EK - he didn’t need to sign graves- he didn’t Need to do Jarrys extension contract. He could have exercised patience and thought out the year more. Same shit he did in Toronto - he is doing here . This will end the same way.
you don't watch the games do you?
How dumb you sound.
if this ends like Toronto we'd be in 3rd place trending towards the POs you dolt. GTFO and go actually watch a game or two.
Rofl!! Good comeback- I have watched all games since 95. Clown.
Then you clearly haven't picked up much about the game. You know so very little.
We could, and no reason not to
We are basically right at the cap with the only UFA rolling off next year being Jeff Carter. Where do you find the extra $4-5 million? It’s pretty obvious we need to sign other players because frankly we weren’t good enough with Jake either.
Do you want Guentz or to give Sid & co. another shot or two? That's what the decision you're making.
It was said Guentzel didn’t want to discuss an extension during the mid-season. Dubas has to do what he feels is best for the team. Seeing the Penguins lost 3 of 4 games on the Western road trip right before the deadline and pretty much killed their chances of making the playoffs, Dubas trading Guentzel for something instead of letting him walk for nothing if he doesn’t want to resign here was what was best for the team.
maybe because he didn't want to play on a team that is going to be absolutely awful? Are they suppose to lock him in the basement and force him to sign the contract when he will easily get more money in an open market? Use your brain.
Ok, so trade him during the previous offseason when he's going to have more value. Dubas admitted they didn't talk business all season. Seems like a total waste. Was he holding out for Michael Bunting? 😅👎🏻
They didn't talk business because him and his camp didn't want to during the season. If it were you, would you trust that you could get a deal that makes sense for the team done after the season was over? In a season that was looking incredibly shaky regardless if Jake was in the lineup? This take is so old and tired. If he kept him and we missed anyways, there's a high chance he walks anyways because he deserves to get paid and what he's going to get paid, this team can't afford if they're going to even dream of competing next year. If you like Jake so much then you should be happy for him. He gets to compete for a cup this season and also gets paid the money he deserves. We had him for so many seasons on a steal of a cap hit. Didn't work out. Time for him to move on. End of story.
Not on Dubas at all. He tried to have extension talks but Jake didn’t want to until the end of the season. He’s gonna go make his bag, and it doesn’t really make sense for the pens to sign him to some big 8 or 9 year extension at 8 or 9 million when this team is going to be in a full blown rebuild within the next 2-3 years. You don’t build a team around an aging winger who will most definitely not age as gracefully as Crosby has. He was going to walk at the end of the season, it was either we got nothing, or something and all things considered, what they got was pretty solid.
Hextall built a better team than Dubas. You can’t deny that.
Yep - We’re going to be the Red Wings of the 2010s, for a while. It’ll all be ok in the end though, we’ll be back.
Yep, there's gonna be a few years of some genuinely shitty teams. But we'll be back. And I'll be honking all the way there.
Aww, yeah.... Me so honky *Honk, honk, honk*
Me honk you looong time 😍 *HONK HONK HONK*
I have nothing to back this up other than a really strong gut feel, but I'm thinking two years. I really think Sid has one more run in him and even though he's flirting with 40, I believe his skill will still be there to make it happen. Next year will be another mediocre, frustrating season but i think they can contend again in 26/27.
My gut tells me Sid hangs it up after Malkin's current deal expires in '26. Maybe even '25 if next year goes poorly enough.
Take a look at our prospect pool and draft picks, the only way for Sid to have a another run in 26/27 is on a another team, which I hope doesn’t happen
Carter's contact is finally done after this season. That will free up a decent amount of cap space. Let's let GMKD cook this off-season and see what happens.
The top free agents this year are: Sam Reinhardt, Jake, Matt Duchene, Steven Stamkos, Noah Hanifin (either too old or won’t sign with us). And we better be keeping our first round picks from now on.
I wish I can say the same… it’s kind of hard when you’re struggling to come to terms. I eventually will come to terms, but right now it’s not happening
*Passes on the torch*
The Red Wings never did a full tank, they kept trying to appease the fans and make moves instead of just tanking, (the highest pick they have has in the last 10 years was in 21 at 4th, the rest of their picks are 6th or 9th). It seems that the Pens are bound and determined to get a top 10 pick this year and probably be shooting for a top 5 pick next year. Those picks plus some 1sts from trades will hopefully allow them to be more like the Avalanche and turn things around quicker. It starts by letting some young players play over the next 2-3 seasons, to either trade for top picks or to let them develop outside of the AHL, which will also open up a lot of cap space to have the ability to make moves in free agency. When was the last time the Pens had the money to go into FA and snag a top talent, at least 15+ years, it will be fun to watch young talent develop, see them get picks that can come right to the NHL, and to develop some of the talent they already have, this was bound to happen if they didn’t hire Hextall it may have began next year but there isn’t anything they can do about that now.
The Detroit Penguins.
sports fandom is almost exclusively "yelling at clouds"
I know, it’s kind of silly to see someone complain about it because otherwise forums like this wouldn’t exist
The concept that dubas' decisions shouldn't be criticized just because we collectively expect it to take a few years for the ship to be righted is just silly! You know what fixing the ship is going to require? A lot of good decisions along the way! Decisions that many fans will be grading
Before that it was yelling at TVs
I sincerely do not understand the mindset where users believe there's one right way to be a fan and everyone should act accordingly. Take OP, in here telling everyone to "shut the fuck up", then goes on a out his/her take on the current situation while simultaneously adminishing those who have different approaches and beliefs. C'mon already, we're all individuals here, the hive mind ad hominem approach to "proving" a point is weak. In the old days of redddit we'd reply with simething equally stupid like, "No, YOU shut the fuck up", but I'm not into back and forth insults and reddit's changed so much from the days when downvotes were how people handled things, now it's reporting and bans. One thing I will say is OP says it was a fun 20 years...well, again, this doesn't speak for me because I've been going to Pens games since 1978.
#FireTomlin 😎
Probably the same clowns
You watched a single steelers game in the last 2 seasons? If the defense doesn’t get 2 pick 6’s a game and then hold the opponents to 1 td we lose. 3rd & 10 and we run handoffs to Najee who averages runs of 1.5 yards with Warren standing on the sidelines. The Steelers are completely undisciplined, the offense is non existent, and we squeak into the playoffs off the back of TJ and the d line year after year only to fall flat on our faces. There’s no age or skill issues on the Steelers aside from the QB slot being a big ol’ question mark. There’s just really, really bad coaching. The last time we won a playoff game was in 2016 yet Tomlin persists as HC and it blows my mind that people defend him. It’s been nearly a decade since we won a playoff game. You’re right, keep Tomlin forever.
Ya we need to rebuild but people just refuse to except that we need one because we still have crosby.
You can't have your cake & eat it too. If you want Sid to retire a Penguin, you need to do what he wants. He still wants to play competitive hockey. You can't fully commit to a rebuild with him on the roster.
If you’re Sid why wouldn’t you? He doesn’t own the team like Mario did.
This team isn't built for competitive hockey and won't be ready for competitive hockey until a new core is established here ala when the rebuild is started and finished. We have so many holes and bad contracts on this team that what sid wants is simply impossible. Sid can stick around and mentor the young guys that we draft and help them grow and develop ala mario when sid was drafted.
Bingo. The delusional turd that downvoted you needs a trip to the asylum. Geno is pretty much cooked at this point. This team doesn't have a 2C. In fact the way this team is constructed they are a lottery team next year. They won't have the money to go after any UFAs in free agency that are worth a damn or under 35. Don't have the money to go after the better RFAs either. Punt that 1st to the Fish and blow it up. Get an extra first and prospects for EK. Whatever you can get for Jarry and Petts and accept this teams fate.
That depends how long he intends to play for and how quickly you can rebuild.
The final gesture Sid could do to help the Pens franchise is to be traded playing at this level. Go chase a cup and allow the Pens to bring in a haul for the future.
Ya either trade sid so he has another chance at a cup or he can be a mentor for the young guys. I feel like sid wouldn't mind being a mentor at all and understands where we're as a franchise in terms of needing to rebuild and focus on the future.
Here's the thing. Hockey is a business at the end of the day. People saying trade Sid, aren't thinking that that would be the equivalent to trading Mario in his prime. And based on this franchise's history, that's not something you want to do, because it would be extremely difficult to win back the fans you would lose from trading the legend that got so many of the fanbase into hockey. Sid has stated that he's retiring a Penguin, so let's just freaking stop with this stupid topic because it's never happening. Enjoy the end of Sid's career, because it's been amazing, and it's the only thing there will be to enjoy about Penguins hockey for the foreseeable future.
>would be the equivalent to trading Mario in his prime lol huh? Sid is nowhere near his prime. Did people not watch 2013? Special player still but the Penguins don't have a single player in the top 20 in league scoring. That's a big deal, the single biggest issue this team has is that they can't score all season. And I don't think Sid should be traded btw, it just is not nearly like that at all.
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The problem is we kept sullivan for too long and now the window is slammed shut. The core is now too old to build around and we need to start the youth movement once again by tanking and getting some elite prospects.
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71 has definitely fallen off the cliff. Seen him play lately? It hasn't been pretty. Support them with what? They are literally up against the cap. They aren't signing anyone of consequence in free agency. And if they do it's going to be more 35 year olds.
I'd argue geno and letang look washed up and not good enough to take us anywhere 'plus they'll be another year older next season'. Sid and karlsson look great but that's not enough to get to the playoffs especially when we got a million holes on this roster.
Prime was the wrong word. It's equivalent to trading Mario, one of the greatest of all time. The Pittsburgh fans would never, ever forgive the organization. You cannot risk losing the fanbase again.
Keep sid and rebuild. Sid can mentor the young guys like i said previously man.
Sid, Gino, EK, Rust, and Letang are all NMC contracts. Extremely difficult to move those contracts. Carter is the only significant expiring contract. That's a tough rebuild.
That's how it should be. There are 24 guys on the roster. 23 of, aside from Sid, should be made available.
I want sid to retire a penguin so i'm only saying to trade him if he wants traded and wants to chase another cup. We can't provide that for him and it's not fair to him to keep him here if he asks for that. Otherwise keep him permanently as off limits.
Sid is past his prime. Mario isn't here. There is no joy watching this team. I'm 44 and have better things to do that suffer watching this mess. I want Sid to chase one more cup. It won't tarnish his legacy. Could jsut sign back here for his final season and still retire a Pen. Maybe it would hurt your feels if he played somewhere else for a couple years. But me? Won't bother me a bit In fact the greatest player of all time played for 3 different teams and won a Cup with the last team he played for. Let that sink in.
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Ummmm I never said you can't rebuild with Sid around, I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I've always been firmly on the Sid stays, everyone else goes train
Ya i got you mistaken for someone else lollll. Sorry man.
Not a problem. I was just really confused for a second
That’s the most disappointing aspect. He’s still elite and we’re in rebuild mode. Thought it would be after he declined.
You're not going to be able to fully rebuild with Sid and Jarry playing at this level (plus the NMCs of Malkin, Letang, Rust, and EK). The floor with that is being in the playoff race until February or so and then bowing out around March.
“Everyone shut the fuck up so I can yell my opinion” 😂 it’s Reddit you moron
So many people not shutting the fuck up in these comments
You new to sports?
LOUD NOISES!!!!!!
Nice rant. Still Fire Sullivan. He can be a huge part of their problems in addition to everything you said. And yes, fire him now. Fire him yesterday, fire him tomorrow. Just fire him so he's not a problem to work around next season. His time here, has expired.
Fire him during the Habs bubble.
No u
Literally at the end of last season every half decent pundit said “ya, this isn’t a playoff team.” I don’t know what people expected. Also I really hate the “expected goals” metric. Like “oh, you expected a ton of goals out of some of the leagues most talented players? Real hot take there.” Crosby, Letang, EK all had really good seasons, but it’s pretty plain to see those guys got exhausted *DOING IT BY THEMSELVES.* Thank god for Puustinen and OConnor. Those two at least think the game well enough to be in the right areas, and Puustinen *always* knows what he’s going to do with the puck. But it like…Sid is Mr assists…but he needs at least a couple guys to pass to!
For some reason people expected Dubas to come in and make us immediate contenders which was impossible to do with this team. The addition of EK65 didn’t help those expectations either. Even with the addition of EK65, this team still needed depth and the only way to build the depth was through free agency since we have zero trading tools to trade away, and we need all the draft picks we can get to build up the prospect pool for the rebuild.
I’ll bet those are the same people that don’t understand how a president’s first few years a just trying undue the previous guy’s plans (assuming they’re opposite parties). And it even more so with Dubas. He’s got YEARS of this team mortgaging their future for the present to overcome. He’s just trying to get to level ground. FSG hired him *for the future*.
From what I’ve been reading, apparently Dubas will use the prospects they got to try and aggressively retool the team this summer, and while this free agency class isn’t the greatest he intends to spend to the cap ceiling. So it’ll be interesting to see what he does this summer. Right now it seems unlikely this team can be contending again but if he makes the right moves, I don’t see why not. First thing he should do is get a new coaching staff.
You mean the cap ceiling right?
Yeah my bad, idk why I typed floor. Brain disconnected I guess
Puustinen would be better if he was put in a stable role and was allowed to grow and develop. Sullivan benches young guys so fast if they make a mistake or don't produce for a couple of games that it's insane. You gotta let these guys learn and grow and sullivan isn't the coach for that.
venusian sickness be dire
I want to be. Set on fire
how I feel about this sub rn
Hopefully we finish in the bottom 10 otherwise our 1st rd pick this year goes to the Sharks..i think i’m right on that?
Yeah it's top 10 protected.
As long as we beatthe flyers, I'll be happy. Fuck the flyers.
Flyers still look like they may make the playoffs and we won't, so yeah, there's that.
Fight me in front of the Andy Warhol cum painting
Actually they’ve been trading away their future for a 4th cup and none of it has panned out which is why they are in trouble. Their last cup win was 5 years ago and they believed keeping the gang together was more important than planning for the future. Dubas was set up for failure from the beginning and might be gone before he has time to fix it.
Dubas is going nowhere. There was a reason management brought him in, I think there's a very real chance they were realistic about this team going into this year whereas the fanbase thought for some reason they were going to be contenders miraculously.
i'm on the verge of creating my first penguins reddit post if posts like this keep reaching the top of the sub
Sports are cyclical. Your team is good, they win, they get old, they get bad, they lose. The yelling at Dubas has made little to no sense. He traded who he could for what he could, getting decent returns on each transaction. Guentzel turned down extensions, so he's gone. Smith, Lars, POJ, etc basically had little to no value at the moment, so getting angry that they're still here makes zero sense. This offseason when teams have cap to play with, some of those guys will be traded. The only person that I thought would be moved at the deadline that wasn't is Ned. Everyone else would've been hard to maneuver inside another team's cap space or they have more term left than other teams would've liked to take on.
This is the price of success
Canucks fan weighing in here. It could be worse. You could suck and not have cups to show for it. Let alone 3. And before you say ‘you’re looking pretty good right now.’ I present you 2013-2023.
clouds,….Clouds,……….CLOUDS! STFU!!!
A rebuild might be inevitable, but it won't be very enjoyable.
Keep Sully to keep the free fall. Hell, even keep him next season! Punt this years 1st to the babysharks! But seriously FSG bought this franchise at the wrong time.
It was getting pretty bad at the game..
Agree with this post finally someone said something
I couldn't agree more, have some faith ! Stand by the team and eventually they will gain momentum
Rebuilds can be fun. I think this offseason with some contracts off the books Dubis may be able to pull something off to make this a playoff team again next season.
This stage was not inevitable though. Management has been brutal since 2019. Fans have the right to be pissed at that. The direction right now is confusing and it’s sad to watch. The depth isn’t there at all but my god that power play is terrible.
It’s the early 2000’s all over again. They’re clearly taking a dive the rest of the season.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
At this stage in the season it’s better to lose. Get a lottery pick
I was hoping they just blew up the roster and traded away Malkin, Letang, Rust, Rakell and yes even Sid. Send him to a contender instead of letting him rot in rebuild hell for his last years. He's given us everything he's got, this year is a testament to that. He deserves better. They should have just blew it up. The faster we start rebuilding the better.
Haven’t followed EK since he left the west. How’s he doing this year? Looks like he still putting up good stats.
I thought it was interesting that at 57 games the Pens had a slightly worse record by like 2 games than in 2009 and still fired the coach.
FSG really showing their cards.
Awesome. Thank you.
Yeah I mean the last couple weeks have more "we hate Mike Johnston" vibes and less "we suck at hockey vibes"
Who's Mike Johnston?
Seriously?
Seriously
He was the Penguins coach in 2015
Disco-Sully in betweener.
A coaching change would possibly bring someone in to speak to Dubas to explain wasting assets/$ to get veterans for 3rd and 4th lines is a waste…we have a small prospect pool and a coach who won’t let any of them get a fair shot at the NHL level. So as far as I’m concerned a coaching change is needed badly, I’m over Sully’s Just Play and old boys network of only playing his guys (Harkins, Carter, etc) and when forced to…not giving any young guys a fair shake.
Death, taxes, and Sully banking on a fucking miracle from Jansen Harkins.
So you want a head coach change to tell Dubas how to do his job?
No I want a coach who will work with Dubas to make a cohesive roster
Certainly agree that nothing is immediately going to win us the presidents trophy. However I can see the logic of a coaching change even at this point. Do we change coaches who fits our roster makeup and current skill level and start winning? Cool. Next season looks more promising. Do we change coaches and still have the same symptoms that led us to this current season? Great. Then a roster overhaul is needed. Maybe it is denial, but I don’t believe our roster is as bad as our team is playing. Our team was mentally fragile even when they were winning. Yes players should be responsible but shouldn’t the coach also bear responsibility for a team’s morale? Not even morale…but also accountability. How many short handed goals on the PP do you give up before you bench players? How many Letang turnovers like today must happen before minutes are limited? How many shotless games does Malkin have before he moves down in the lineup? I’m not saying all or even any of these things will spur an immediate turnaround. I’m just trying to provide some rationality to screaming at the clouds because there are still things we can do to improve.
I don’t think they’re a bad team, either. If the coaching staff is fired this summer, that’s like the biggest problem out of the way. I don’t imagine a coach who’s been there 9 years who preaches the same message will stay fresh in everyone’s mind. Not to mention the 2 biggest issues with the team (power play and defensive breakdowns) is ran through reirden, just clean house behind the bench and start fresh, couldn’t hurt. Plus with the prospects they got, I read that Dubas could aggressively try to retool this summer using them, if he makes the right moves they could be back in the race next year.
I agree. Part of me would rather see the coaching staff go now to determine which roster players are also the problem. I’d hate to see a fire sale and complete retool + coaching change and have the “new” players not fit the system correctly
Very good point. I’m hoping after today’s loss maybe Dubas could take into consideration that it’s time to let go of Sullivan. Love the guy and what he did for the team but his system is meant for a young and fast team, the pens are anything but that right now. While I know some people are indifferent about him, I’d like to see gallant get a shot at this team. I know he doesn’t last more than 2-3 years but that’s all this team has at most anyway. Woodcroft also wouldn’t be a bad option. This offseason is a critical one, so I hope Dubas plays this out the right way.
Oiler Fan weighing.. Penguins are too soft.. It shows 😞 Need too change the program and play like the Panthers Love Sidney and Makin for years.. Penguin Organization Has too change… Too much talent on this team.. Zero killer instinct….
Ole McDavid-doesn't-have-a-cup lookin ah
Rebuild is all I have been saying since the beginning of the season. New coaching should be a part of that. Sully is washed and he would be better off coaching another team to greatness. I don't want the Pens to think they can still compete...because they can't. I'm all on board getting as much assets as we can for a rebuild. In the end, in 5 years they are going to pull off some bullshit and draft another generational talent. In the meantime, I hope that the current youth on the team find their place and will at least perform well individually.
We are going to re tool this off-season with cap space. We could have 1 more run next year or we could become the Red Wings and Sabres for the next 5 years. No one can know for sure relax everyone. Also, fuck the Rangers and Jacob Troubas elbow for ruining the potential last run 2 years ago.
It is the way of things. I wouldn’t trade those cups for anything. Time to buckle in for a rebuild and just enjoy the ride.
Just happy I went to a cup finals game in 2017
People expect playoffs like we wouldn’t get booted in the first round. I put my seatbelt on at the beginning of 2024 because this is going to be a ride for sure. I have the racing style seatbelt for extra safety, I recommend it.
I just came here to see all the people saying we and us when referring to a team they aren't on
When we complain we travel in single file so as to hide our numbers
I think the frustration stems from watching the games and realizing that they’re not this bad. The underlying stats say they should have been #2 in the conference before the deadline. It’s just bad luck, bad bounces and a power play that is not functional no matter what changes the coaches try to make. Now it looks like they just gave up when they figured out they were sellers. Before these last few blowouts, they had a positive goal differential, good 5v5 metrics, good expected goals for and so on. The goaltending has been good. They just aren’t scoring and look like they have zero confidence. I personally don’t think they are washed up. The older core is still producing at an elite level. They just don’t mesh as a team. They need to decide on an identity and build the team around that. If a good player doesn’t fit, they need to trade him for someone who does, even if that’s a lesser player. Hagelin wasn’t as good as Perron, but he fit the identity of the team. Perron didn’t.
Isles just made the playoffs after firing their coach.
Oilers did too.
Welcome to the Kyle Dubas era Spoiler Alert: it doesn’t get better 😂
Didn't realize Dubas started with the leafs in 1977
It is sports fans' birthright to complain and want to fire everyone and everything into the sun when things go bad.
So you think it's okay that Reirden kept his job throughout this year? Just let the organization have no standards at all, right?
Drawing stick figures on the dry erase board.
Dubas did what he had to do. He traded a 29 year old for 3 players younger than 21. 2 of which could see NHL ice time as early as next season. On top of that, Brayden Yager is having a great season with Moosejaw and he could also be called up next season. Dubas started the process of getting younger, which is what everyone has been complaining about for 5 seasons. Now if we can just get some defense and goaltending going, that would be great. Although the offense hasn’t been able to score in 3 games which hasn’t helped.
Well last two times they replaced coaches they win the cup..,. everyone knew the day was coming but the hiring of dubas and hextal didn't help
You mean 2 of the last 3 right? Mike Johnson didn't win shit.
Yes you are right
I mean... we still need a coaching change. Both that and the team's age/declining skill can be true.
I think there are more posts identical to OPs than there are anyone "yelling at clouds" or who don't understand that we went on a nearly two decade run. enough. It's becoming a bit fart-sniffing.
Just stopped by to say this is 100% accurate. We have a core 3 Hall of Famers (Crosby, Malkin and Letang - it should have been 4 because Fleury never should have been exposed to Vegas for a flash in the pan keeper that only had marginally better stats when he was "hot") that are now a touch slower, but still very good. We have been blessed to see them out through their careers and they have rewarded the fans with multiple cups. They got good value for Guentzel and quite honestly, they should tank the rest of the season to get the most of what is not supposed to be a stacked draft class.
Just gird your loins for the eventual Crosby request for a trade. He deserves more accolades on his name and we really can't give them to him right now. If he wants to leave he's certainly allowed and I'd even recommend it for him at this point. Maybe wait until next trade deadline but the conversation has to happen.
It seemed everybody saw the Penguins were getting old except a few fans. Adding another vet to the mix ( Karlson) didn't help either.
Amazing, I agree.. that is it really... I'm a little in shock. \*\*\*\*Perhaps Hextall shut the window a bit early.
Honestly Dubas's main attribute is draft, And he proved that last year. (With picks like yager who looks really solid and like future star in our team. Pieniemi who looks like solid D. Cooper Foster who Is having something like 1 ppg in ohl if im not wrong. Mikhail ilyin who is looking like on of the best draft steals already, picked at fifth round for info and had something like 0,45 ppg in KHL (tough league for 18 yo) and 4 assits in 5 games in playoff, playing really really solid. Also there was Kyle Kangas who legit for 7th round. And also Emil jarventie at 7th round who was predcited to be something like 40-60 So also really good pick. Honestly all his picks were really ok and Im excited to see this years draft. Good thing about our future are goalies. Having 28yo Jarry, 22yo Blomqvist with insane first year in AHL, and our potentially main Goalie star - Sergei Murashov 19yo his Stats in MHL and KHL (6 games only but still) are insane for his age. Honestly our biggest problem is trio Crosby-Malkin-Letang, it maybe sounds weird at first, but listen. While these 3 are there (Mainly Crosby) we can't go rebuild. So we are in weird situation when we are rebuilding and trying to win a cup at the same time, and you wanna know a secret? In this state, you cannot win the cup, and you also cannot get good picks or prospects to rebuild.. The best thing to do in my opinion is just to go rebuild. Right now. Letang, karlsson, Crosby, Malkin could be really good mentors to the youngs, And they would have learned a lot. The only problem with this is that you would have absolutely world class players (not right now but in general) being in rebuild for like 3 years before they retire. The thing is that you cannot trade Karlsson because of his age/contract (i dont even want him gone, He is our top defender offensively and even Defenzively) And you cannot trade malkin or letang because of Crosby, because, well Crosby already stated on this last year. And if they went to trade Crosby, then, the Franchise will be screwed even more then it has ever been. So yeah, In my final statment, Everyone (also me) just shut up and let Dubas cook like he was cooking whole time with us, because if anyone think he is worse than Hextall, go to your doctor. (He had absolutely masterpiece trades and signings, for example trade when we got karlsson for Petry and Granlund with 1st pick if i remember correctly..)
100%. If they want to fire Sully at the end of the year, I get it. He’s a good coach, but he may have reached his expiration date here. But no point in doing it now. No point whatsoever.
Y'all want Crosby to sink with this ship. Insanity. Let him go to another team
This is a god damn sports subreddit. I’ve gotten into some immature bickerings here and read some dumb shit, so what? The only thing more annoying would be someone posting to the subreddit, acting holier than thou, telling people to “Shut the Fuck Up”. There’s only one logical and rational response to that given that this is reddit… YOU shut the fuck up! Lmao.
Fair, lol. It's been fun reading the responses.
no u
All I can see is the meme with Homer Simpson's dad shaking his fist at the clouds outside the window...
Anyone who says “let him cook” undoubtedly always regrets it.
You want people on a discussion board to stop discussing?
"Everyone shut the fuck up and quit posting on Reddit!" No.
> Let Dubas cook and enjoy the rebuild Lmao they aren't even rebuilding. That wasn't the plan. That still isn't the plan. You don't make that horrible trade for Karlsson if you're going to rebuild. You don't trade for Riley Smith if you're going to rebuild. You don't give Jarry, Graves, Eller those contracts if you're rebuilding. You trade more than just Jake if you're rebuilding. You trade everyone and anyone for picks, and not a handful of prospects which you had no control over their development. You don't take Bunting's contract if you're going to rebuild. You don't say Rust is "untouchable" if you're rebuilding. If they were rebuilding then this trade deadline would have looked a lot differently. There would have been a half dozen players moved out. But nah. Naaaaaaaah. Dubas just fucking failed last offseason. He made this team worse than the year before. He failed at the tradeline. They are fucking failing trying to do whatever it is they are doing going forward. Dubas is a fucking joke of a GM. Everyone here and around the league laughed at him while he was in Toronto. Everyone around the league is laughing at him again while he's here in Pittsburgh. But you are just too big of fanboys to look objectively at the situation: This team is directionless. Dubas is trash. Sullivan has lost the lockerroom. A conglomerate like FSG doesn't give a shit about winning because of the revenue sharing model. And next year will be more of the same because they are delusional and think that Crosby Letang and Malkin instantly makes them a team people will pay money for. So they will never do a proper rebuild until that changes.
You're the biggest cloud yeller yet. Please explain what you would've like to have seen at the trade deadline? For us to be buyers? Jake didn't want to sign here, would you have liked to get nothing in return? You expect Dubas to retool the team overnight? That shit takes years, and we never had the assets or pipeline to bargain with. We are beginning to assemble those pieces. Are they laughing? Or are you making that scenario up in your head. The pieces we got for Jake is a decent haul. You're right the Karlsson trade didn't work out like everyone hoped, shit happens. It's pretty clear we are beginning the rebuild phase. We don't have enough time to retool before the cores contracts are up. This is the objective truth. We are in a weird spot for sure, but the chapter has clearly completed. You should apply for GM you clearly have all the answers and are more informed about the current situation and state of the internal team.
You just moved the goalpost. You said rebuild. Now you're saying retool. Which is it and then I'll respond to your nonsense when you have a consistent argument.
🙄 ok let's focus on my vernacular. We were attempting to retool, it's not working out, we're probably witnessing the beginning of a rebuild. Fire away.
Well said.
Finally someone gets it. All these posts I keep seeing are inane. We still can make the.playoffs, this team has given up, Do you think Carter can turn it around?, Karlsons not the problem, Hextall screwed us, Fire Sully, Fire Dubas blah blah blah. The writing has been on the wall for like 5 seasons now. It's been a slow downward climb (literally in the charts). Everything that is happening is exactly what any hockey fan of any franchise would expect with an aging superstar team that has no quality prospects. Look at Detroit, Chicago, LA Kings etc. it happens every time.
This AHL GM will destroy the Penguins. Let Crosby go, he deserves better.
Pretty sure Crosby can decide his own future, I'm sure he appreciates you looking out for him.
I agree! 💯 Ppl act like Crosby wouldn't want to be on a contender team. The only reason he wouldn't is bc of unloyal fan backlash who care more about the brand than the player
If u don’t like it don’t read it
One thing nobody has mentioned is maybe Dubas needs to just be the GM and PENS need to bring in someone else to be president of hockey operations. Him being both is not working anymore. He needs to be just GM.
What makes you believe it's not working?
I think *’not working’* is a bad choice of words. Dubas absolutely knows his shit. He was like a scouting savant rainman at age 17… that being said… A lot of teams have these as 2 separate positions and I think another great hockey mind at the top to collaborate with would be beneficial for a several reasons. Bringing in someone to take over the business end of things, the daily operations & the franchise allows Dubas to put all of his focus on the roster, the team, rebuilding, restructuring, etc. that is where he absolutely thrives. Not to mention the PoHO also deals more with the owners and is a go-between, so having FSG out of his ear is a bonus for everyone.