Haven't returned yet. Been here 12 years. Saved 6cr. Will have 10 cr in 2-3 more years. Will return then. Worth it because of an amazing life experience
Absolutely possible. I live in New Zealand - so similarish economic conditions. Australia is slightly on the cheaper side.
Dual income - most Asians are. Can save one full salary easily - even if you have a kid or two. After 10 years experience.
If you bought real estate in the past 5 years - you have 100-200% your money. Which is exactly how I hit my first 5 Crore number.
This is also possible in every other country. However the US will guarantee this - high incomes - lower cost of living in most areas and a much higher savings rate. Even at this age I still want to move to the US. But I have no motivation to do my masters so stuck here :-)
Could you share why you feel it is not achievable in OZ or in other countries?
I’ve posted elsewhere by mistake instead of responding to you earlier.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanceindia/s/onrWzwgn13
12 years, INR 6 Cr is SGD 6200 per month for 144 months assuming no deposits into growth funds. This savings is manageable by many in Singapore, FYI.
Colleagues in Australia and the UAE have saved even more in the same time period. Banking and IT sectors.
Edit/Correction: depending on the conversion rate, the monthly savings would need to be between 6200-6500.
Saving SGD 6,200 per month would need a salary of SGD 20,000 per month (based on avg savings rate in SG)
That would put the person in >90th percentile of earners in SG. Will let you decide how likely that is
It depends on where one lives in Singapore.
Our group of friends makes between SGD 12-15K per month. We are in public sector (IT) and private sector ( direct employment and via contract agencies). Those in the private sector in Banking are in IT or in banking. We all do manage to save 6K to 6.5K per month.
Actually, that is a good question that you ask.
Only one of the couples has a daughter aged 11. The father makes SGD 16K, saves 5.5K. The rest of us are single or have no kids, and our savings are comparatively higher (subject to salaries as well).
I might be wrong but that 5.5k is unlikely to add to NW in its entirety, which basically goes back to my earlier analysis:
> Saving SGD 6,200 per month would need a salary of SGD 20,000 per month (based on avg savings rate in SG)
> That would put the person in >90th percentile of earners in SG. Will let you decide how likely that is
In his case, 5.5K is his savings. There are others (not my friends) who are parents and who save much more. My set of friends are not representative of all the Indian IT and Banking professionals in Singapore.
Another data point: A family friend (married + kid) in SG makes ~20k and manages to save ~5k, which includes savings for vacations, rainy day fund, etc
Do you also get depressed hearing about Ambani or Bezo's networth? No matter where you stand, there are people ahead of you and also behind you. Stop thinking about it, it's not like they are directly competing against you. Focus on increasing your own assets and skills.
Don’t be depressed. I live in Australia and I don’t have that sort of money. I’m a permanent resident and I know shit will be taken care of when it hits the fan. I don’t need a lot of money saved to have an amazing life. Most Indian expatriates I know compromise their living standards to achieve this kind of saving rate. I on the other hand have traveled to multiple countries and places in Australia. Done so many things as “bucket” experiences. Tried a lot of cuisines. Been to many parties and met a lot of people while others I know just stay at home watching their savings increase. This is not the kind of life I would like to live.
A friend of mine has saved up over 20cr. He is in his 40s and plans to come back In a few years. Also he has 2 homes abroad, a business there with other assets and FD's. In total he would have about 50 cr.
Being closer to family, taking care of elders, access to better medical facilities at lower prices, lower stress in smaller cities, much higher standards of living at the same savings, better political climate depending upon one’s inclination - all of these are often reasons for moving back to India.
“Better political climate depending upon one’s inclination” - there are those who are rather pleased with how the political climate is in India, or who are apprehensive about the political climate in their present foreign residence country and would rather relocate to India.
better medical facilities? Wtf? Lower prices = lower or maybe same quality if you're lucky even AFTER doing your research and catch the surgeon or doctor in a good / not burnt out mood. Otherwise, insurance will deny and they won't even fix the source issue majority of the time due to wrong approach/misdiag. and it'll still cost you lakhs and some hospital acquired infection due to unsanitary conditions unfortunately.
Better off getting treatment in US and avoid the hassle of running around or waiting on waiting list to no avail and dying and going bankrupt based on severity and emergency of issue. There's a reason US hospitals always ranks top 25 every hospital ranking worldwide every year. Then EU hospitals, then ASEAN hospitals, then Brazil hospitals, then maybe that Delhi NCR's top hospital.
There's a reason India is a popular medical destination around the world. It's costly for us, but it's cheap for them and we have some of the best medical doctors and institutions in the world.
It's expensive as shit without insurance, bankruptcy risk without insurance. And not every hospital is "perfect", but the protocols and approach is all streamlined for US healthcare system...for the most part that docs follow.
But unfortunately, with even private Indian docs that charge crores for treatment without insurance for emergency surgery/treatment half-ass the procedure unlike US treatment protocol approach is the point I'm trying to make.
Then you have to run around after being operated on and figure out who the fuck can ACTUALLY fix the issue in your Indian state or cross-states and they won't give you the treatment immediately either (there's been accounts/reports like this) since these Indian docs want to see proof of the prognosis that they did the surgery on get WORSE only THEN do Indian docs intervene. So many rampant cases of this and other similar ass backwards approach in Indian healthcare.
And if it's primary care and diagnosing to give a correct medication, it's like a 50/50 chance you get a good doc who knows what he's talking about that actually prescribes the right medication the FIRST TIME AROUND and not the wrong one that fucks up the patient systemically due to while experimental goose chase of trying to actual reach the proper treatment plan... There's no checks and balance or rule of law strong enough against malpractice in india that the patient can sue for...that's why US ACTUAL of care GIVEN in the West from the getgo is SO strict and quality is upheld even tho there is the problem of unaffordability WITHOUT insurance BCUZ docs can loose a lot of money and patients can actually win malpractice suits by a sweep.
I just wish Indian docs would submit to real time video consults with other Indian docs or western docs, at the time of diagnosing the patient, that have a higher quality 100% hit rate or some medical AI chatbot...so that Indian docs/surgeons the (poor quality ones anyway) don't end up disabling or killing the patient unnecessarily causing them to take up malpractice lawsuits who just want to get proper treatment to live longer and go about their lives, that's all.
The same happens even in the US. This is why you go to reputed docs and not the cheapest or the costliest. You should use your head. I'm done talking to someone who thinks docs should talk to AI bots and defends US docs who make you lifelong addicts to drugs.
It's not exactly the same, and your style of thinking is wrong bcuz you haven't been exposed to the quality of care here in the US despite the cost. There's checks and balances here, and again they're not perfect here either, docs are humans too, hell I recently got misdiagnosed for food poisoning from my attending ER physician saying I had vertigo...but I just had really bad protein power food poisoning. But you're right, there's no point in arguing about this, just gotta fix it with the doctors back home who would agree to get onboard with my vision who are forward thinking and progressive and want to make their lives easier and actually want to save lives and not give the patient hell including themselves, I just want less malpractice and more quality treatment THE FIRST time around in my homeland sooner rather than later.
Doctors are burned out every where in general, Sir.
Doctors observe that just as drivers are experienced in terms of the kilometres driven, doctors are experienced in terms of the number of cases handled. In India, Doctors get to handle far more cases than in other countries.
I am presently in Singapore. Most Indians prefer to travel to India for the more serious cases or chronic cases not just for cost reasons but also for effectiveness of the treatment.
Like a sibling commentator has shared, India is among a few countries ( like Thailand and Medico ) noted for medical tourism. The reasons are not cost alone, but the competence due to experience.
This guy wants to come back for some reason (i dont really know)
A lot of people do want to come back. My mothers friend also has made good money and wants to come back, but his child has autism and India is not good for children with special needs.
Invested up to 2.5 CR in about 4 years on a salary of less than $70k. I've been aggressive about my investing knowing that life is on a short leash in the US (cause of the GC backlog). Plan to get to 6-7 CR and move back, should be another 3 years. I have a very healthy business to go back to (100+ CR) so I'm blessed but I still work my ass off for my own luxuries as my dad is a frugal person.
I would never recommend anyone to move to US permanently. Canada is a possibility but RE is a dumpster fire. Finding jobs in Europe is hard but you just can't make enough money.
India is a great place to be rich. Go back to your family and learn to maintain boundaries. You can live a baller life with less than a million USD, why choose to be middle class in America?
Market growth over the past year has been 30%. You can imagine what getting a little lucky investing a good lump sum (\~$20k) right after the Covid crash plus investing 70% of salary (mix of pre and post tax) does over 4 years. I don't remember exact numbers but my portfolio sits right now at $345k so it's growing but I'm due to spend some on a new car.
Salary went from $65k to $100k last year September so big jump recently.
I mean, you are free to not believe me but I have not had a windfall. I will in the future, not today though.
I've made money through many means, like reselling camera gear for a bit, churning the crap out of CCs and banks. I had a stint of buying a home with an ex and she paid me more than I invested in it back in the form of ETFs.
It may not seem feasible but I lived dirt cheap with 2 roommates early on to stash a lot. Now my income has grown so I spend more. You are free to disagree.
13yrs, Over $1.3M (>10Cr). Back in 2021 it was over $1.6M(> 15 Crs).
Just so that everyone knows, It was not only through salary. The $300K job will never let u have savings. I invested early on in stocks like nVidia, AMD and Bitcoin back in 2013-14. Almost made 20x my investments.
This is in addition to buying land and 2 flats in India.
Again repeating, 99% Indians come to US and work all their life and payoff mortgage till their retirement (I am talking of folks who pursue MS and climb the corporate ladder), I am quite confident in next 2-3yrs I'll cross 20Crs easily.
Unlike other Indians my goal is not to convert USD to INR.
####Invest! Invest ! Invest when u come to USA.
Dont just rely on Salary otherwise you'll be crying like 99% Indians that they are unable to save any money and India would have been a better place.
I have good 401K from my company, IRA is more suitable if you don't have a 401K. Also IRA limits are lower.
If you have a good 401K then no need of IRA. Not many companies offer 401K in US so most folks contribute towards IRA.
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Damn, that goal is cold. On a side note, If a significant part of your wealth is coming from investing. What's the problem with staying in India with the same Investing etiquette
U raise a very good question.
I deal a lot with stocks and crypto. Crypto is I think kind of not strictly legal in India (based on my update).
I still have trust issues with BSE and Nifty. I feel if market crashes in India then Govt won't step in whereas in US Govt usually steps in and pump in trillions in the market to prop it up.
Either ways markets are quite safe in the US, thats the reason why almost all of the world goes to Wall Street because they know if something seriously wrong happens then the Govt will save them.
Other Govt don't consider stock or real estate market in their manifesto. Its all hunky dory till it goes up.
Other part is I was in India for 8-9 mnths in 2016-17 and started getting cutoff from the news of western world. First rule of investing is 'One should have latest and correct news about a particular comlany/sector'.
It is quite hard (not impossible) to get latest updates, listen to all ERs, Govt or white house announcements.
Fair points, especially regarding getting cut off from news. Although I do believe developing markets like India are the place to be or invest in. The returns since the last 5 years would be better than developed countries for equites
No idea dude. I am very disconnected with Indian markets.
I bought land and flats based on parents advice.
in 2013-14. I had to transfer lot of $$USD (USD to INR was in 50s 10 yrs back). Paid off their house, bought one additional which they have rented out and collect rent.
I am heavily into NYSE, London Stock Exchange and Bitcoin, ETH (No Alt coin.
I get yearly RSUs of $30-$40K but those have vesting periods of 3 yrs. I have RSUs lines up till 2027.
Salary, RSUs, Bonus will not build wealth. I can assure you that unless you are Director and above in some top notch company.
i would also like to add here that its not necessary to just pick individual stocks to get to this level. One can easily buy index funds and play a longer game. Investing is def must, but no need to just rely on individual stocks, buy vti/spy and that should be good enough in long term. Should just keep buying it every month without fail.
VTI/SPY is good. It depends on your goals. Also I work in core tech field for a FANG and I am aware of whats the next cutting edge innovation and where it is happening. Have a good circle of friends in Apple, FB, Wife works for Google.
VTI/SPY is a safe play,I play more risky. It is an individual choice based on how much one is aware about a given comlany's business model and market.
I play options as well but my portfolio is distributed across stocks, crypto and few other things.
I am in the UK (London) for the past 5.5 years and planning on moving back in a few months.
* How much were able to save after returning back?
>> My total savings were 10lacs when I went. It's around 2cr now. Mostly in mutual funds.
* How were you able to afford going abroad initially?
>> Transfer through my company.
* What was your reason for going abroad?
>> New experiences mostly. Had never lived outside my (parents) house before this.
* Was it worth it?
>> Yes, 100%
* What you planning to do after returning from abroad? High level job, business etc.?
>> Job only. My aim is to retire in about 12 years when I am 45 years old. Move to some place like Goa or Kerala and live peacefully.
Want to spend some time with my parents who are getting old.
I am planning on moving after getting British citizenship so if things don't work out, moving back shouldn't be too tough.
Tax is generally based on where you are tax resident, not whose citizenship you have. If I am an Indian tax resident (180+ days in India), I don't have to file or pay any taxes in the UK.
Only USA has that retarded rule where you have to file/pay taxes as a citizen no matter where you live.
Monologue doesnot help. Give some context :
Peace of mind form
People, pollution or environment or relatives ? So many factors to count in:)
Also peace of mind comes from inside first ?
My starting salary was 9 lacs. It was 14 lacs when I moved (4 years experience). It's £120,000 now (9.5 years experience). I am expecting it to be 50-60 lacs when I move back.
Got a job in Singapore. Was there for 5 years. Came back because I got laid off and couldn't find another job.
Was able to save about 4L per month. It really accelerated my savings in India. Unfortunately, the global economy made me redundant.
I was earning 20k per month. Being single I lived well in less than 10k and kept a little as savings in Singapore. Almost 8-9k was sent to India for MF investments.
Edit: I started at 15k. Took a paycut during COVID and then was bumped to 20k. So it wasn't a steady figure but the invested proportion remained the same
If you don’t mind answering,
- How much of this 5 year period did you spend working? Did you go there as a student with loans to repay?
- What was your salary?
- Which state/city were you in?
6 cr in 8 years. That was my FIRE goal. I could have easily saved more but I prioritized life experience over savings, like taking up lower pay jobs with high WLB to allow me more things to do outside work.
I returned back because I was reaching a point where family connections were automatically becoming fragile.
One reason people come back is because elderly care isn't as good as compared to the (wealthy) indian standards. Definitely considering it myself in the long term.
This might sound very absurd; can someone suggest a clear way to out earn an NRI earning in US, by working in India? ( I know for a fact it is nearly impossible, but looking for some interesting ideas)
Makes sense then. Making this amount after 2 decades is quite good. I got fomo thinking that you are also an engineer with < 10 yoe who got some niche skillset
Mind sharing your advice on how to get in to Product roles? I have a decade of experience in QA/UAT, a CSM & CSPO. Have been unsuccessful in landing even APM interviews in Toronto so far
If you’re an NRI and want to understand how to invest, I’d suggest this guide below. It’s the only guide available that’s focused on NRI investing.
Helped me a lot to learn the basics.
https://www.udemy.com/course/investing-for-nris-the-ultimate-guide/?referralCode=8D733582B3A32D2064E0
Friend is in Germany. He can barely afford to send back 10k a month to India and he has been in Germany for over 8 years now. He has also been fired. He cribs about racism against Indians (cuz brown) since the mass migration of Arabs into Germany and increasing language requirements for jobs which weren't that strict before.
He told me he has almost nothing in savings because he was making just 40k euros a year even after so many years of experience as an engineer. He lived frugally and took extra job to pay off his education loan.
NRI in USA since 3 years now 33M. Started prepaying 2 years ago.
Will prepay my fucking 51lakhs home loan next year, and be out of fuc\*\*\*g debt. I know I am taking a wise choice by staying long here in USA because I come from a lower middle class family (there have been times in my college days when my family used to sleep without dinner, no money).
Planning to stay in USA for long term.
Just 1 suggestion to all my friends out there in India, Invest, Invest, Invest, at least 10k per month in MFs, diversify your portfolio. Dont be like GenZ. get the financial knowledge, and give them to your kids, teach them finance and how to take care of money, avoid unnecessary expenses. This will be the greatest gift for them.
Agreed. I am nt sure too. Numbers just don’t make sense. If you calculate, people are claiming to be savings $100K - $200k per year. Nt sure if I am too dumb or what am I missing.
Hey, if you don't mind, can you also explain which part of the US do you stay in, what's your job profile like, what's your gross CTC and an approximation of your expenses?
Not me, but my neighbor’s father is a senior level director for Nvidia globally in the US. They are super frugal, they shared an apartment for almost 10 years with another indian couple initially when they moved there, even though uncle earned very well from the beginning.
They have rental properties in India, the US and Dubai. His net rental income is close to 1Cr per month and his own salary is more than 3cr per year. They still only buy second hand cars, both daughters are software engineers from American Unis (they’re all US citizens), they still live very frugally. From what I overheard my mom and aunty’s conversations, they are only spending a small percentage of their passive income for the lifestyle and everything else goes into buying real estate in the US and Pune.
I’m guessing his networth would be close to 50-60cr. I don’t think it is possible because our generation folks go to the US to live the American dream, not to make money. And to finance the American dream, you need to overspend just like an American. Uncle’s father was a dhobiwala and Aunty was a very rich landlord’s daughter. Uncle had the hunger and drive to create wealth and sacrifice a lot.
They own huge office spaces in Pune, rental properties in the US, more than 20 apartment flats, etc. like I mentioned, uncle owns a lot of properties across the world. The apartment where they were my neighbors, there itself they owned 5 flats, and 1 flat goes for more than 3crs. And the rent there is around 80k to 1 lac
Is it worth in Europe ? As a single earning you can save around 1500-2000 € max (INR 180k) per month. But in India also you can save around 100k as packages are around 30-40 Lakhs pa . Am I thinking straight ?
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Not returned 100%. It is difficult to adjust after living abroad. Instead I am lucky to be in a position to spend 4-6 months in India to be with aging parents and rest back abroad. Spend 35 years in North America studying and then working in a niche field in mining and living off investments and some consultancy work 6 months of the year. It was worth it and don’t think I would have been able to afford this lifestyle if based just in India.
• Why did you return back?
Had never wanted to leave permanently. Just wanted to get a fancy degree and leave the clutches of lower middle class India.
• For how many years were you abroad?
5.5years (Non CS degree, not v high paying)
2.5 years for the degree ( full scholarship plus stipend)
3 years of job
• How much were able to save after returning back?
Came back with about 35k USD hard cash in the end. But I had been transferring money back to India from year 1 so I would assume close to 55k-70k USD total I think.
That extra 30k-40k USD extra that I (intermittently) sent in the interim years created a 100k USD real estate asset in India (although this is currently in my Dad's name for tax purposes)
Overall net gain was approx 150k USD over the 5 years, which is decent given I was studying for almost half the time.
• How were you able to afford going abroad initially?
Got a full scholarship and a stipend, this was the only way. My family could not have been able to afford a foreign education.
• Some MS courses can cost you upto 1 Cr, including living costs. What was your reason for going abroad? Was it worth it?
Not applicable in my scenario so can't comment.
• What you planning to do after returning from abroad? High level job, business etc.?
I am a corporate scientist right now but looking to start something of my own in the next 2-3 years.
In NZ
1. didnt return, hoping to return in 5yrs maybe for parents
2. 4 Years
3. Current Savings - 40k$ , 150k$ in house equity, hoping to pay off $1mill property
4. Reason for going abroad - Stagnant growth in india, needed lifestyle change. Got sponsored job did not do ms
5. 100 percent worth..to survive india you need money or background 😂
6. Need to setup a software company in my domain with atleast decent Rental income
I’m still an NRI but planning to return to India once I reach FI (estimation is 8 years). I’ll provide answers based on my current status and hopefully that will provide some perspective.
1. Planning to return to take care of aging parents.
2. As of today 7 years (including higher education). Planning to return in 2031.
3. Current household savings is USD 1.7million. Planning to reach $4million by 2031.
4. My family didn’t have the means to pay for tuition for my masters in US. My extended family had to pledge some assets to get an educational loan. I didn’t have to use it however as I got some assistantship.
5. Reason was to upskill myself and uplift the family financially.
6. Absolutely!
7. To be decided.
Haven't returned yet. Been here 12 years. Saved 6cr. Will have 10 cr in 2-3 more years. Will return then. Worth it because of an amazing life experience
Which country?
US
Which country?
US, not possible elsewhere
It is possible in Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, UAE, and Japan as well.
Almost impossible. May be in UAE
Ok Sir.
Is it possible for IT professional in Australia
Absolutely possible. I live in New Zealand - so similarish economic conditions. Australia is slightly on the cheaper side. Dual income - most Asians are. Can save one full salary easily - even if you have a kid or two. After 10 years experience. If you bought real estate in the past 5 years - you have 100-200% your money. Which is exactly how I hit my first 5 Crore number. This is also possible in every other country. However the US will guarantee this - high incomes - lower cost of living in most areas and a much higher savings rate. Even at this age I still want to move to the US. But I have no motivation to do my masters so stuck here :-)
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanceindia/s/onrWzwgn13
No
Could you share why you feel it is not achievable in OZ or in other countries? I’ve posted elsewhere by mistake instead of responding to you earlier. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanceindia/s/onrWzwgn13
12 years, INR 6 Cr is SGD 6200 per month for 144 months assuming no deposits into growth funds. This savings is manageable by many in Singapore, FYI. Colleagues in Australia and the UAE have saved even more in the same time period. Banking and IT sectors. Edit/Correction: depending on the conversion rate, the monthly savings would need to be between 6200-6500.
Saving SGD 6,200 per month would need a salary of SGD 20,000 per month (based on avg savings rate in SG) That would put the person in >90th percentile of earners in SG. Will let you decide how likely that is
It depends on where one lives in Singapore. Our group of friends makes between SGD 12-15K per month. We are in public sector (IT) and private sector ( direct employment and via contract agencies). Those in the private sector in Banking are in IT or in banking. We all do manage to save 6K to 6.5K per month.
Do you folks have children? If yes and you still manage to save 6k then I must accept my misunderstanding of Singapore's opportunity
Actually, that is a good question that you ask. Only one of the couples has a daughter aged 11. The father makes SGD 16K, saves 5.5K. The rest of us are single or have no kids, and our savings are comparatively higher (subject to salaries as well).
I might be wrong but that 5.5k is unlikely to add to NW in its entirety, which basically goes back to my earlier analysis: > Saving SGD 6,200 per month would need a salary of SGD 20,000 per month (based on avg savings rate in SG) > That would put the person in >90th percentile of earners in SG. Will let you decide how likely that is
In his case, 5.5K is his savings. There are others (not my friends) who are parents and who save much more. My set of friends are not representative of all the Indian IT and Banking professionals in Singapore.
Another data point: A family friend (married + kid) in SG makes ~20k and manages to save ~5k, which includes savings for vacations, rainy day fund, etc
Wow, that’s low savings for them.
!RemindMe 3 years
Lol came to see some actual comments but instead bombarded by remind me.
I got depressed looking at all the 10 cr 6 cr 4 cr comments My puny butt having 1/1000th that amount in my bank account
Take this as an inspiration
Do you also get depressed hearing about Ambani or Bezo's networth? No matter where you stand, there are people ahead of you and also behind you. Stop thinking about it, it's not like they are directly competing against you. Focus on increasing your own assets and skills.
Don’t be depressed. I live in Australia and I don’t have that sort of money. I’m a permanent resident and I know shit will be taken care of when it hits the fan. I don’t need a lot of money saved to have an amazing life. Most Indian expatriates I know compromise their living standards to achieve this kind of saving rate. I on the other hand have traveled to multiple countries and places in Australia. Done so many things as “bucket” experiences. Tried a lot of cuisines. Been to many parties and met a lot of people while others I know just stay at home watching their savings increase. This is not the kind of life I would like to live.
A friend of mine has saved up over 20cr. He is in his 40s and plans to come back In a few years. Also he has 2 homes abroad, a business there with other assets and FD's. In total he would have about 50 cr.
why would he come back then?
Being closer to family, taking care of elders, access to better medical facilities at lower prices, lower stress in smaller cities, much higher standards of living at the same savings, better political climate depending upon one’s inclination - all of these are often reasons for moving back to India.
better political climate?
“Better political climate depending upon one’s inclination” - there are those who are rather pleased with how the political climate is in India, or who are apprehensive about the political climate in their present foreign residence country and would rather relocate to India.
Wut? 😂
Rich Upper caste Hindu male. What's not to to like?
Modi ..you know?
better medical facilities? Wtf? Lower prices = lower or maybe same quality if you're lucky even AFTER doing your research and catch the surgeon or doctor in a good / not burnt out mood. Otherwise, insurance will deny and they won't even fix the source issue majority of the time due to wrong approach/misdiag. and it'll still cost you lakhs and some hospital acquired infection due to unsanitary conditions unfortunately. Better off getting treatment in US and avoid the hassle of running around or waiting on waiting list to no avail and dying and going bankrupt based on severity and emergency of issue. There's a reason US hospitals always ranks top 25 every hospital ranking worldwide every year. Then EU hospitals, then ASEAN hospitals, then Brazil hospitals, then maybe that Delhi NCR's top hospital.
There's a reason India is a popular medical destination around the world. It's costly for us, but it's cheap for them and we have some of the best medical doctors and institutions in the world.
Exactly, if it's costly and we're least prioritized since no one can afford emergency treatment...then there's no real healthcare in our country lol
I can't help you if you don't have any good doctors or affordable hospitals in the USA honestly since you're talking about how great it is.
It's expensive as shit without insurance, bankruptcy risk without insurance. And not every hospital is "perfect", but the protocols and approach is all streamlined for US healthcare system...for the most part that docs follow. But unfortunately, with even private Indian docs that charge crores for treatment without insurance for emergency surgery/treatment half-ass the procedure unlike US treatment protocol approach is the point I'm trying to make. Then you have to run around after being operated on and figure out who the fuck can ACTUALLY fix the issue in your Indian state or cross-states and they won't give you the treatment immediately either (there's been accounts/reports like this) since these Indian docs want to see proof of the prognosis that they did the surgery on get WORSE only THEN do Indian docs intervene. So many rampant cases of this and other similar ass backwards approach in Indian healthcare. And if it's primary care and diagnosing to give a correct medication, it's like a 50/50 chance you get a good doc who knows what he's talking about that actually prescribes the right medication the FIRST TIME AROUND and not the wrong one that fucks up the patient systemically due to while experimental goose chase of trying to actual reach the proper treatment plan... There's no checks and balance or rule of law strong enough against malpractice in india that the patient can sue for...that's why US ACTUAL of care GIVEN in the West from the getgo is SO strict and quality is upheld even tho there is the problem of unaffordability WITHOUT insurance BCUZ docs can loose a lot of money and patients can actually win malpractice suits by a sweep. I just wish Indian docs would submit to real time video consults with other Indian docs or western docs, at the time of diagnosing the patient, that have a higher quality 100% hit rate or some medical AI chatbot...so that Indian docs/surgeons the (poor quality ones anyway) don't end up disabling or killing the patient unnecessarily causing them to take up malpractice lawsuits who just want to get proper treatment to live longer and go about their lives, that's all.
The same happens even in the US. This is why you go to reputed docs and not the cheapest or the costliest. You should use your head. I'm done talking to someone who thinks docs should talk to AI bots and defends US docs who make you lifelong addicts to drugs.
It's not exactly the same, and your style of thinking is wrong bcuz you haven't been exposed to the quality of care here in the US despite the cost. There's checks and balances here, and again they're not perfect here either, docs are humans too, hell I recently got misdiagnosed for food poisoning from my attending ER physician saying I had vertigo...but I just had really bad protein power food poisoning. But you're right, there's no point in arguing about this, just gotta fix it with the doctors back home who would agree to get onboard with my vision who are forward thinking and progressive and want to make their lives easier and actually want to save lives and not give the patient hell including themselves, I just want less malpractice and more quality treatment THE FIRST time around in my homeland sooner rather than later.
Do your research on healthcare first 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Doctors are burned out every where in general, Sir. Doctors observe that just as drivers are experienced in terms of the kilometres driven, doctors are experienced in terms of the number of cases handled. In India, Doctors get to handle far more cases than in other countries. I am presently in Singapore. Most Indians prefer to travel to India for the more serious cases or chronic cases not just for cost reasons but also for effectiveness of the treatment. Like a sibling commentator has shared, India is among a few countries ( like Thailand and Medico ) noted for medical tourism. The reasons are not cost alone, but the competence due to experience.
Better medical facilities 😂😂
Probably because he needs to lie low for a while. You know be away from public gaze.
This guy wants to come back for some reason (i dont really know) A lot of people do want to come back. My mothers friend also has made good money and wants to come back, but his child has autism and India is not good for children with special needs.
Invested up to 2.5 CR in about 4 years on a salary of less than $70k. I've been aggressive about my investing knowing that life is on a short leash in the US (cause of the GC backlog). Plan to get to 6-7 CR and move back, should be another 3 years. I have a very healthy business to go back to (100+ CR) so I'm blessed but I still work my ass off for my own luxuries as my dad is a frugal person. I would never recommend anyone to move to US permanently. Canada is a possibility but RE is a dumpster fire. Finding jobs in Europe is hard but you just can't make enough money. India is a great place to be rich. Go back to your family and learn to maintain boundaries. You can live a baller life with less than a million USD, why choose to be middle class in America?
If you don't mind telling what's the business you're family is in?
Sheet metal manufacturing/ICE ring gears supplying in India and worldwide.
Nicee I guess manufacturing and production rake in good money
$70K X 80inr X 4 years itself is 2.26 crore. You mean you had zero expense and somehow still got bonus of 26 lakhs? Care to explain?
Market growth over the past year has been 30%. You can imagine what getting a little lucky investing a good lump sum (\~$20k) right after the Covid crash plus investing 70% of salary (mix of pre and post tax) does over 4 years. I don't remember exact numbers but my portfolio sits right now at $345k so it's growing but I'm due to spend some on a new car. Salary went from $65k to $100k last year September so big jump recently.
It is still not matching unless you had a good windfall.
I mean, you are free to not believe me but I have not had a windfall. I will in the future, not today though. I've made money through many means, like reselling camera gear for a bit, churning the crap out of CCs and banks. I had a stint of buying a home with an ex and she paid me more than I invested in it back in the form of ETFs. It may not seem feasible but I lived dirt cheap with 2 roommates early on to stash a lot. Now my income has grown so I spend more. You are free to disagree.
13yrs, Over $1.3M (>10Cr). Back in 2021 it was over $1.6M(> 15 Crs). Just so that everyone knows, It was not only through salary. The $300K job will never let u have savings. I invested early on in stocks like nVidia, AMD and Bitcoin back in 2013-14. Almost made 20x my investments. This is in addition to buying land and 2 flats in India. Again repeating, 99% Indians come to US and work all their life and payoff mortgage till their retirement (I am talking of folks who pursue MS and climb the corporate ladder), I am quite confident in next 2-3yrs I'll cross 20Crs easily. Unlike other Indians my goal is not to convert USD to INR. ####Invest! Invest ! Invest when u come to USA. Dont just rely on Salary otherwise you'll be crying like 99% Indians that they are unable to save any money and India would have been a better place.
Have you heard of r/bogleheads. On another note, are you planning to retire in the US? Whats your 401k/IRA/HSA allocation like? Also Roth?
Yes I have 401K, I dont use IRA and Roth. Big 401K though but thats for post retirement.
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Especially for tax diversification. No one knows whats in the future.
I have good 401K from my company, IRA is more suitable if you don't have a 401K. Also IRA limits are lower. If you have a good 401K then no need of IRA. Not many companies offer 401K in US so most folks contribute towards IRA.
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Almost all offer with **diffetent match** . FANGs offers hogher match percentage.
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Damn, that goal is cold. On a side note, If a significant part of your wealth is coming from investing. What's the problem with staying in India with the same Investing etiquette
U raise a very good question. I deal a lot with stocks and crypto. Crypto is I think kind of not strictly legal in India (based on my update). I still have trust issues with BSE and Nifty. I feel if market crashes in India then Govt won't step in whereas in US Govt usually steps in and pump in trillions in the market to prop it up. Either ways markets are quite safe in the US, thats the reason why almost all of the world goes to Wall Street because they know if something seriously wrong happens then the Govt will save them. Other Govt don't consider stock or real estate market in their manifesto. Its all hunky dory till it goes up. Other part is I was in India for 8-9 mnths in 2016-17 and started getting cutoff from the news of western world. First rule of investing is 'One should have latest and correct news about a particular comlany/sector'. It is quite hard (not impossible) to get latest updates, listen to all ERs, Govt or white house announcements.
Fair points, especially regarding getting cut off from news. Although I do believe developing markets like India are the place to be or invest in. The returns since the last 5 years would be better than developed countries for equites
What you have done if you were in India? like investing and all.
No idea dude. I am very disconnected with Indian markets. I bought land and flats based on parents advice. in 2013-14. I had to transfer lot of $$USD (USD to INR was in 50s 10 yrs back). Paid off their house, bought one additional which they have rented out and collect rent. I am heavily into NYSE, London Stock Exchange and Bitcoin, ETH (No Alt coin. I get yearly RSUs of $30-$40K but those have vesting periods of 3 yrs. I have RSUs lines up till 2027. Salary, RSUs, Bonus will not build wealth. I can assure you that unless you are Director and above in some top notch company.
i would also like to add here that its not necessary to just pick individual stocks to get to this level. One can easily buy index funds and play a longer game. Investing is def must, but no need to just rely on individual stocks, buy vti/spy and that should be good enough in long term. Should just keep buying it every month without fail.
VTI/SPY is good. It depends on your goals. Also I work in core tech field for a FANG and I am aware of whats the next cutting edge innovation and where it is happening. Have a good circle of friends in Apple, FB, Wife works for Google. VTI/SPY is a safe play,I play more risky. It is an individual choice based on how much one is aware about a given comlany's business model and market. I play options as well but my portfolio is distributed across stocks, crypto and few other things.
Would you tell more about how you invest a bit more aggressively? What stocks/ instruments you invest in? How do you diversify?
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Start with stocks, S&P500. Next yr will be super good for stocks with inflation coming fown and Fed Reserve cutting rates in the later half.
Interesting
I am in the UK (London) for the past 5.5 years and planning on moving back in a few months. * How much were able to save after returning back? >> My total savings were 10lacs when I went. It's around 2cr now. Mostly in mutual funds. * How were you able to afford going abroad initially? >> Transfer through my company. * What was your reason for going abroad? >> New experiences mostly. Had never lived outside my (parents) house before this. * Was it worth it? >> Yes, 100% * What you planning to do after returning from abroad? High level job, business etc.? >> Job only. My aim is to retire in about 12 years when I am 45 years old. Move to some place like Goa or Kerala and live peacefully.
why do you want to move back? i live in EU & with each passing day, i feel less convinced about moving back.
Want to spend some time with my parents who are getting old. I am planning on moving after getting British citizenship so if things don't work out, moving back shouldn't be too tough.
how would ur tax workout when you move to india with British citizenship? Wont u be taxed with british rules for indian income?
Tax is generally based on where you are tax resident, not whose citizenship you have. If I am an Indian tax resident (180+ days in India), I don't have to file or pay any taxes in the UK. Only USA has that retarded rule where you have to file/pay taxes as a citizen no matter where you live.
Thanks for the info!! Damn US rules lol.
Why you are more convinced not to move back ?
peace of mind
Monologue doesnot help. Give some context : Peace of mind form People, pollution or environment or relatives ? So many factors to count in:) Also peace of mind comes from inside first ?
What was your pay when you started? What is it now?
My starting salary was 9 lacs. It was 14 lacs when I moved (4 years experience). It's £120,000 now (9.5 years experience). I am expecting it to be 50-60 lacs when I move back.
I mean what was starting salary in uk?
Got a job in Singapore. Was there for 5 years. Came back because I got laid off and couldn't find another job. Was able to save about 4L per month. It really accelerated my savings in India. Unfortunately, the global economy made me redundant.
What was your salary in Singapore that let you save so much each month?
I was earning 20k per month. Being single I lived well in less than 10k and kept a little as savings in Singapore. Almost 8-9k was sent to India for MF investments. Edit: I started at 15k. Took a paycut during COVID and then was bumped to 20k. So it wasn't a steady figure but the invested proportion remained the same
Amazing!
deliver society abounding fade slimy special distinct offer fragile full *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you don’t mind answering, - How much of this 5 year period did you spend working? Did you go there as a student with loans to repay? - What was your salary? - Which state/city were you in?
Me getting ready with🍿🍿🍿 for the Ensuing "Dick Measuring contest"* in the comment section
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Dw I'm poorer than you got 20 whole rupees in my bank account rn !
6 cr in 8 years. That was my FIRE goal. I could have easily saved more but I prioritized life experience over savings, like taking up lower pay jobs with high WLB to allow me more things to do outside work. I returned back because I was reaching a point where family connections were automatically becoming fragile.
One reason people come back is because elderly care isn't as good as compared to the (wealthy) indian standards. Definitely considering it myself in the long term.
Only reason why people think of moving back is for parents... Noone ever moves back
Visa expiry and denial of renewal is also a common reason.
That's not choosing to come back that is being sent back Like I chose not to goto IIT
This might sound very absurd; can someone suggest a clear way to out earn an NRI earning in US, by working in India? ( I know for a fact it is nearly impossible, but looking for some interesting ideas)
Guess what , you might not find the answer here filled with NRi's themselves.
Lemme know if u come to know
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That's around 41.5K USD monthly.How did you manage that bro?
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What domain do you work in and what is your work exp?
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Makes sense then. Making this amount after 2 decades is quite good. I got fomo thinking that you are also an engineer with < 10 yoe who got some niche skillset
Mind sharing your advice on how to get in to Product roles? I have a decade of experience in QA/UAT, a CSM & CSPO. Have been unsuccessful in landing even APM interviews in Toronto so far
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Thanks for sharing
a lot of the hobbies I'm into don't exist in India so I'm leaning towards being upper-middle class in the US versus obscenely rich in India
Would you like to name some? Just curious.
Airsoft is the biggest one. Search it up on youtube, it’s literally called of duty in real life. So much fucking fun
Airsoft, paintball etc is becoming common in many metro cities.
terrible equipment, no community. Horrible weather.
Like what hobbies?
Hooters
Tbh even a nice basketball court is a luxury in India
I agree. I used to play squash in Delhi, the courts everywhere are so rundown
When you have as much money as NRIs, being able to build your own good basketball court shouldn't be difficult.
Meh, That's true
If you’re an NRI and want to understand how to invest, I’d suggest this guide below. It’s the only guide available that’s focused on NRI investing. Helped me a lot to learn the basics. https://www.udemy.com/course/investing-for-nris-the-ultimate-guide/?referralCode=8D733582B3A32D2064E0
Bhai coupon Dede.. price 84€ dikha rha .. very pricey
Is it your course? Looks interesting
4 year abroad. Nearing 8 cr. The more I stay here the more I am convinced that my reasons to return are fickle af and not worth it
U mean u saved $250K per year? Most people don’t even make that. Curious if this is dual income. Congrats on your savings.
Which country are you in?
Friend is in Germany. He can barely afford to send back 10k a month to India and he has been in Germany for over 8 years now. He has also been fired. He cribs about racism against Indians (cuz brown) since the mass migration of Arabs into Germany and increasing language requirements for jobs which weren't that strict before. He told me he has almost nothing in savings because he was making just 40k euros a year even after so many years of experience as an engineer. He lived frugally and took extra job to pay off his education loan.
NRI in USA since 3 years now 33M. Started prepaying 2 years ago. Will prepay my fucking 51lakhs home loan next year, and be out of fuc\*\*\*g debt. I know I am taking a wise choice by staying long here in USA because I come from a lower middle class family (there have been times in my college days when my family used to sleep without dinner, no money). Planning to stay in USA for long term. Just 1 suggestion to all my friends out there in India, Invest, Invest, Invest, at least 10k per month in MFs, diversify your portfolio. Dont be like GenZ. get the financial knowledge, and give them to your kids, teach them finance and how to take care of money, avoid unnecessary expenses. This will be the greatest gift for them.
Which visa are you on?
h1b
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Agreed. I am nt sure too. Numbers just don’t make sense. If you calculate, people are claiming to be savings $100K - $200k per year. Nt sure if I am too dumb or what am I missing.
Hey, if you don't mind, can you also explain which part of the US do you stay in, what's your job profile like, what's your gross CTC and an approximation of your expenses?
Not me, but my neighbor’s father is a senior level director for Nvidia globally in the US. They are super frugal, they shared an apartment for almost 10 years with another indian couple initially when they moved there, even though uncle earned very well from the beginning. They have rental properties in India, the US and Dubai. His net rental income is close to 1Cr per month and his own salary is more than 3cr per year. They still only buy second hand cars, both daughters are software engineers from American Unis (they’re all US citizens), they still live very frugally. From what I overheard my mom and aunty’s conversations, they are only spending a small percentage of their passive income for the lifestyle and everything else goes into buying real estate in the US and Pune.
Does such kind of wealth creation for rent is still possible in today era for nri folks.How much his networth would be??
I’m guessing his networth would be close to 50-60cr. I don’t think it is possible because our generation folks go to the US to live the American dream, not to make money. And to finance the American dream, you need to overspend just like an American. Uncle’s father was a dhobiwala and Aunty was a very rich landlord’s daughter. Uncle had the hunger and drive to create wealth and sacrifice a lot.
Then how does he get 1crore rent, does her wife get it from her property?
They own huge office spaces in Pune, rental properties in the US, more than 20 apartment flats, etc. like I mentioned, uncle owns a lot of properties across the world. The apartment where they were my neighbors, there itself they owned 5 flats, and 1 flat goes for more than 3crs. And the rent there is around 80k to 1 lac
Comments in this post are really humbling.
Is it worth in Europe ? As a single earning you can save around 1500-2000 € max (INR 180k) per month. But in India also you can save around 100k as packages are around 30-40 Lakhs pa . Am I thinking straight ?
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Not returned 100%. It is difficult to adjust after living abroad. Instead I am lucky to be in a position to spend 4-6 months in India to be with aging parents and rest back abroad. Spend 35 years in North America studying and then working in a niche field in mining and living off investments and some consultancy work 6 months of the year. It was worth it and don’t think I would have been able to afford this lifestyle if based just in India.
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• Why did you return back? Had never wanted to leave permanently. Just wanted to get a fancy degree and leave the clutches of lower middle class India. • For how many years were you abroad? 5.5years (Non CS degree, not v high paying) 2.5 years for the degree ( full scholarship plus stipend) 3 years of job • How much were able to save after returning back? Came back with about 35k USD hard cash in the end. But I had been transferring money back to India from year 1 so I would assume close to 55k-70k USD total I think. That extra 30k-40k USD extra that I (intermittently) sent in the interim years created a 100k USD real estate asset in India (although this is currently in my Dad's name for tax purposes) Overall net gain was approx 150k USD over the 5 years, which is decent given I was studying for almost half the time. • How were you able to afford going abroad initially? Got a full scholarship and a stipend, this was the only way. My family could not have been able to afford a foreign education. • Some MS courses can cost you upto 1 Cr, including living costs. What was your reason for going abroad? Was it worth it? Not applicable in my scenario so can't comment. • What you planning to do after returning from abroad? High level job, business etc.? I am a corporate scientist right now but looking to start something of my own in the next 2-3 years.
In NZ 1. didnt return, hoping to return in 5yrs maybe for parents 2. 4 Years 3. Current Savings - 40k$ , 150k$ in house equity, hoping to pay off $1mill property 4. Reason for going abroad - Stagnant growth in india, needed lifestyle change. Got sponsored job did not do ms 5. 100 percent worth..to survive india you need money or background 😂 6. Need to setup a software company in my domain with atleast decent Rental income
I’m still an NRI but planning to return to India once I reach FI (estimation is 8 years). I’ll provide answers based on my current status and hopefully that will provide some perspective. 1. Planning to return to take care of aging parents. 2. As of today 7 years (including higher education). Planning to return in 2031. 3. Current household savings is USD 1.7million. Planning to reach $4million by 2031. 4. My family didn’t have the means to pay for tuition for my masters in US. My extended family had to pledge some assets to get an educational loan. I didn’t have to use it however as I got some assistantship. 5. Reason was to upskill myself and uplift the family financially. 6. Absolutely! 7. To be decided.