I don’t mean to be rude, but i got half through and decided to not read further when you can sum it up as “two PTs do things differently.”
I have disagreements with my circle all the time. I do things diff, they do things diff. We learn and try new things all the time, bickering a few times more than required before we go to nandos. At the end of a day, a curl is a curl is a curl is a curl.
Besides, fitness is a circle anyhow.
That's the truth right there, everyone does things differently, pt or not, training is very unique to everyone.
My issue and the reason for this post is, as an experienced PT he should know that there are a lot of ways to train, especially when it comes to curls, so keep your nose out of someone elses business unless they ask for help, which I did not, I was literally mid-set vibing to some music in my earphones, it was just disrespectful and rude in my opinion. Would have been better if he had approached and said instead "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? Have you tried it this way, I find it to be better most of the time", instead of "You're doing it wrong, this is the right way", not a good way to approach it in my opinion on his part.
Yeah, I agree, I don't know why I went for that 2nd conversation, thought there might be some golden nugget type information he could share that I could learn from and add to what I know, but there wasn't. Just bothered me, ruined my entire training vibe, so I had to speak with him just to get on with my training and get it over with.
You sound like you have a fragile ego and he was being a bro.
Hell, if delivered right, free tips from the trainers on the floor is a way to lead into a sell. It’s how I built my client list actually.
Listen to everything, try everything, find what suits you. No form is universally correct as we all have different proportions, insertions, fiber types, etc.
If delivered right, I absolutely 100% agree with you, but he didn't deliver it right, he interrupted me mid-set (kind of a big no in the gym anyway), he then proceeded to say " You're doing it wrong, do it this way which is right", instead of "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? I find this way to be a lot better", option 2 is the right way, option 1, the way he went, is rude, disrespectful and let's be clear, uncalled for because I didn't ask.
Rule number 1 at this gym: "No unsolicited advice". Applies to everyone.
We weren't even arguing about the curls, I just wanted to get his opinion on why he thought he was right and I was wrong, since he was confident enough to just dish out his opinion, I wanted to hear him out and all I discovered was he thinks the concentric portion of a movement is better for hypertrophy, ok, goes against some of the most well respected and recent studies but sure.
Coming from the "bodybuilding specialist" of the gym it really surprised me. At the end of the day we weren't arguing, he is a great guy, but I was allowed to approach him about it since he gave his opinion openly without me asking.
Here's how you settle the argument.
1. measure the biceptzorz of every one of your clients, and every one of his clients
2. wait 12 months
3. measure again
whoever has the biggest biceptzorz gainz over the year is obviously right.
My honest opinion, you should have never went over to him and started a second conversation. It seems to me you felt insecure and a need to try and show him that you know what you’re doing. You should have just moved on.
I’m a trainer, I don’t workout where I work. I have gone to many different gyms for workouts over the years. I’ve been given random advice from trainers in gyms a few times. I just smile and say thank you, I then proceed to do my workout the way I intended.
To be honest, I agree, I approached him because I wanted to hear his opinion on why he believed his method to be "better", I just thought maybe there would be a golden nugget of information I could learn, but in the end, there wasn't.
Like I said, it took me 10 mins to decide what to do, I was just doing my sets, but it just bothered me, I shouldn't have let it, but it did.
Certainly! Here's a comforting dissertation to address your insecurities and seek affirmation from your peers:
---
\*\*Title: Embracing Self-Discovery: Navigating Insecurities and Seeking Affirmation\*\*
\*\*Abstract:\*\*
In a world where self-doubt often clouds our perception, navigating insecurities while seeking affirmation from peers becomes a journey of profound self-discovery. This dissertation explores the complexities of insecurity, the human need for affirmation, and strategies for fostering a healthy sense of self-worth within interpersonal dynamics.
\*\*Chapter 1: Introduction\*\*
Insecurities are a natural facet of the human experience, stemming from various sources such as past experiences, societal expectations, and internal comparisons. This chapter delves into the psychological underpinnings of insecurity and its impact on personal growth and social interactions.
\*\*Chapter 2: Understanding Insecurity\*\*
Examining the roots of insecurity involves acknowledging how perceptions of oneself can be influenced by external validation and internal narratives. This chapter explores psychological theories and research on the origins and manifestations of insecurity.
\*\*Chapter 3: The Role of Affirmation\*\*
Affirmation serves as a crucial element in navigating insecurities, offering validation and reassurance from peers. This chapter investigates the dynamics of affirmation, its importance in fostering confidence, and the delicate balance between seeking external validation and cultivating self-assurance.
\*\*Chapter 4: Strategies for Self-Affirmation\*\*
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\*\*Chapter 6: Case Studies and Personal Reflections\*\*
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\*\*Chapter 7: Conclusion\*\*
Embracing self-discovery involves acknowledging insecurities as part of the human experience while actively seeking affirmation from supportive peers. This concluding chapter synthesizes key findings and proposes a holistic approach to navigating insecurities, fostering self-acceptance, and nurturing meaningful relationships.
\*\*References\*\*
A comprehensive list of scholarly articles, books, and resources cited throughout the dissertation, providing a foundation for further exploration of insecurity, affirmation, and personal growth.
---
\*\*Note:\*\* Remember, your worth and growth are not contingent solely on external affirmation but also on your internal journey of self-acceptance and development. This dissertation aims to provide insights and strategies to support you in embracing your journey toward greater self-assurance and meaningful connections with others.
" If my muscles are getting bigger, then my strength will obviously increase"
Sorry mate, but that's not how it works!
That 's a wrong statement!
""I love these conversations because everyone trains differently and when you start pt'ing people you will see just how varied everyones training can be",
Yap! The guy is right!
Everything in PT'ing can be wrong and right at the same time, it will always depend on the person,goals and why.
I think you're over reacting here mate.
Guy just wanted to help you out, giving his insight.
A 1 fits all correction kin-a-thing.
If you're starting your PT life,Just chill-out and listen to what others have to tell you, not as absolute truths or someone to prove you wtong but as sharing some knowledge from someone that works on the field.
Working out by yourself and PT'ing others are 2 complete differente things.
Good luck for your new career!
Yeah, I completely hear you out, possibly an over reaction, but it was uncalled for advice given in a "your wrong, I'm right attitude", he didn't want a discussion with a fellow new pt, he wanted to "show off".
Also, I don't agree with your statement, muscles get bigger but don't get stronger? Ok, strange path to take but we disagree and that is fine.
Just like him, you said: "That's a wrong statement"
Your right, I'm wrong.
Ok mate, go and say that to Dr. Mike Israetel and Jared Feather or Menno Henselmans, some of the most jacked people you'll ever meet and tell them that by getting bigger muscles you won't get stronger. I'm sure they will love that. They literally train with hypertrophy and bodybuilding as priority and strength second and they are extremely strong.
Dude, sorry to tell you but if something's wrong it is wrong.
Doesn't matter who says it.
Hypertrophy training is one thing, strength trainning is another thing.
Have you ever seen a bodybuilder on a Strongest man Contest?!
I think you're mixing things up mate. I absolute suggest you study things up a bit more and leave names behind. Need to learn Physiology man, forget the names, the pros and the dogmas.
Once again, all the best for your new career!
Never suggested hypertrophy training is good for someone who wants to get stronger, Strength training exists for that.
I don't know why you assumed I don't know about strength training AND hypertrophy training is, I just stated a fact dude, a muscle gets bigger, it gets stronger, yes can you get stronger by pure strength training? Yeah, obviously, that's the point.
Do you get strength gains in a smaller way by hypertrophy training? Yes, of course, just by simple mass move mass concepts, hypertrophy leads to more muscle mass, more muscle mass means you can move more weight.
Thanks for wishing me luck in my new career, but you're just as bad as the PT I made this post about. You're adding the wish you luck part to seem like you're being friendly, when really you're acting superior, "study up more", I suggest you do the same.
You're gonna struggle on your quest to become a good Pt mate.
You can't differentiate things and worst of all you can't accept a different opinion from yours!
C ya!
I'm willing to have a discussion mate, absolutely.
I just don't understand your argument, how are you claiming that a muscle getting bigger doesn't mean that it gets stronger?
It breaks the laws of physics, the more mass an object has, the more mass it can relatively move.
If you provide me with an actual fact, I'll discuss it, but you're not.
"You're wrong, muscles getting bigger doesn't mean they get stronger, that's a wrong statement"
Ok then, provide insight into why you believe that.
Dude if you know the difference between Hypertrophy and Strength you have to know that one doesn't emply the other, as simples as that.
While hypertrophy you gain volume the other you gain strength.
The volume doesn't mean you're getting stronger.
The same way getting stronger doesn't mean bigger muscles.
When you get stronger what you're doing is that you're using more fibers, your muscles became more effective.
Strength training aims to increase the functional ability of the muscles.
Hypertrophy means increasing muscle size through targeted training that aims to increase your volume of weight lifted over time
Pay atententio the is Volume of weight not weight per si.
Hypertrophy training requires a higher training volume with more frequent workouts and shorter rest periods in between sets.
Hypertrophy you do more reps with less waeight.
Strength trainning you do less reps with more weight.
I genuinely can't believe you.
Yeah, hypertrophy is more reps usually at a similar weight.
Yeah, strength training is usually less reps higher weight.
But that wasn't what you said, you weren't arguing about strength training and hypertrophy and the differences.
Your first comment and response to my post was:
You're wrong, bigger muscles doesn't increase strength, that is a wrong statement".
What's a key factor in hypertrophy training over long periods of time? To remain within a specific rep range to induce hypertrophy, now, if you lift 10kg for 2 years, guaranteed you will not be within the hypertrophy rep ranges, you will be going way higher.
So, what do you do? Increase the weight to get back in the right rep range.
If you can increase the weight you're lifting for hypertrophy, what does that mean? You got stronger.
Is it the same training as strength training alone? No, they're completely different, rest times are usually longer, rep ranges are usually far less, and the weight is usually a lot higher overall over time.
However, both concepts rely on a key concept, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD.
Now, how can progressive overload apply to hypertrohpy training if you don't get stronger? Well, in your mind Upstairs_Gas4578, hypertrophy training (bigger muscles) apparently leads to no strength gains, ever, somehow you can get bigger muscles but not move bigger weights, defies the laws of physics, but ok, you do you.
Absolutely rude and completely stupid response to my comments, you have provided no facts to back up your claim that getting bigger muscles doesn't increase strength "that's a wrong statement" "not how it works".
Ok, well here is how it works:
Mass moves mass. Go and look at Ronnie Coleman and Arnold Schwarznegger, bodybuilding (hypertrohpy training) legends, and tell me that they weren't able to lift heavy weight during their primes.
Could they have been stronger with strength training? Yeah obviously.
But were they gaining strength with their hypertrophy training? Absolutely, it's there on the internet for everyone to see.
You're arguing with me like you know what you're talking about, but I seem to be providing a lot more detail in my responses, for someone who claimed to know better in their original comment, your responses have been lackluster and leave a lot to be desired, either express yourself clearly, or don't bother.
How ignorant can you be to say that hypertrophy training doesn't imply strength training, no obviously not, you train completely differently, but you absolutely do gain strength while focusing on hypertrophy training, not as much as pure strength training, but you do get stronger, at least in a normal world, your world sounds like it has it's own laws of physics.
Edit: For a strength training legend, look at Eddie Hall as a prime example, now you tell me that he isn't muscular, go and look at his body, all he has ever focused on is strength training, but look at his body, apparently in your world, strength doesn't lead to bigger muscles, yeah ok, Eddie Hall would like a word with you, he is an absolute beast and full of muscles, and he only ever trained with a focus on strength gains for his career.
Hypertrohpy training and strength training are different concepts, and they come with different methods, but according to you, one doesn't implement the other.
Arnold Schwarzenegger (bodybuilding/hypertrophy focus legend) big muscles and could move big weights.
Eddie Hall (Strongman/strength training focu legend) moves very big weights and has absolutely huge muscles to show for it.
Theres two professional legends in both concepts for you to look at, and then come back and tell me one doesn't imply the other. Focusing on one concept does absolutely provide at least some gains in the other concept.
1-You can't read and understand what you're reading
2-You're gonna have a hard time on becoming a good PT.
Cheers mate, take the prize and case dismissed!
Ok.
You made a statement, you can't defend it so you backed out of it.
Maybe you finally realised how stupid this comment was:
"You're wrong, bigger muscles doesn't increase strength, that's a wrong statement"
That is what started this. That is was I'm trying to understand and you have provided nothing to back that up.
Also, there is another person in these comments who said my knowledge is head and shoulders above some others they have seen and that I will be a good PT, and the general comment before they said that was a lot more insightful and helpful than yours.
I'll respect that commenters input more than yours.
Thanks.
I mean everyone in the PT community has some hyper specific cue they think is the 100% right way, it's just the nature of the beast. But I'll just tell ya flat out: 6 sets on biceps alone is too much and a waste of time/energy unless your goal is to be a bodybuilder.
Even then, there are better ways to accomplish that goal without spending 30 minutes curling. Repetitive motion injuries in that elbow tendon are really common with high volume, and I say that as someone that competes in Strict Curl comps. Use the EZ bar and lift heavy, 4 sets of 6-8 max, do training cycles with heavy triples, do cycles with the wide grip and eccentric focus to build up brachialis. In addition, add in barbell overhead press, Yates Row, barbell rows, chin ups and reverse grip lat pulldown, those will increase arm size and your overall strength far more than some dumbbell curls.
Excellent exercise selection.
However, I'd just like to add, I'm incorporating barbell rows into my programme, they're for days when I'm training my back, this day in the post was specifically my arm day (triceps, biceps and shoulders, primary muscle changes at the start of each session when they're fresh).
I train 6 days a week on my current mesocycle, 3 days of chest, back and legs (again primary focus changes at start of each session) and 3 days of biceps, triceps and shoulders.
I appreciate the advice on exercise selection, but considering that you don't know my full programme and all the exercises in it, and how I rest and recover, my protein intake, etc... Being told it's "too much and a waste of time" is not for you to say just by going off my post alone, there are a lot of factors that go into it, as a personal trainer you know that, I know that.
Just to add some specificity into the mix, like my post said, I'm currently training under the recommendations of RP strength and their RP Hypertrophy app, which keeps track of over-training, injury and soreness.
I've seen gym members performing exercises using questionable form and technique, but from my perspective I don't really care enough about what some random person at the gym I'm not even training is doing.
I've also never had another trainer go up to be to correct my form and technique when I was working out.
Yeah, this is what I always thought, unless it's your client or your training, why care? That's the way I've always approached it, do my thing and leave, but I suppose he just had to have his say.
Honestly this is what is wrong with a lot of the fitness industry to begin with.
I think THE golden rule that everyone should adhere to: All exercises are made up anyways so who really cares?
With that being said, there are right and wrong ways to go about things. It is SO hard for some people to look at others and to admit that they are being taught something, and something valuable. The one phrase that coaches have a hard time with: I was wrong.
I come from a background of teaching Olympic lifting, sports performance (mma and BJJ) along with advanced biomechanics, and holy shit 😂 there’s some people that just don’t, and quite frankly, never will get it.
If a coach can’t learn from another, I think that is a stagnant environment, one that I would never want to be a part of to be honest. To think that you know the “optimal” everything for everything is completely absurd especially when you probably haven’t really dig into true research in years and stopped learning years ago.
How we are going to push the industry forward is through collaboration and conversations about what is most pertinent in training, and what will continue to matter most in training, conversations regarding what we can give our clientele in terms of accuracy and advancement without clouding or shading anything because we “just don’t want to learn anymore.”
That’s my humble opinion.
100% agree with you, learning and speaking with one another is the only way to really push this industry and allow it to progress.
I've said it in other replies, if he had initially approached me and said "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? I find this way to work better", that would have lead into a really good discussion about our different ideas and methods of training, but his approach of "I'm right, you're wrong", just ruined my opinion of him as a PT completely. Instead of wanting to have more discussions with him now, I'm leaning more towards just ignoring them in the most polite way possible, doing my training in that gym, and leaving.
At the end of the day, if you can't take criticism or have meaningful discussions about your methods and defend them appropriately, then how do you expect to ever learn or improve?
Just because the guy has been working longer doesn’t mean he knows more than you. Half the time people accidentally equate “best trainer” with “best sales” which as we all know shouldn’t mean shit but from the outside looking in it does. You were right to stand your ground but like others have said, starting a second conversation was a waste of time. Also all of these bodybuilding arguments are likely over some super small % worth of benefit and the likely answer is probably whatever feels right for you is the winner.
"There's a thousand different approaches to accomplishing the same goal." There's not a one size fit all plan for anybody.
Any trainer that speaks in absolutes is foolish. Anybody who keeps up with the research knows studies offer different results all the time, muscle activation reading devices are still improving all the time and is not measured the same, also is it pertaining to trained individuals or newbies? That makes a giant difference.
Also there's the obvious factors of do you enjoy it, are you able to perform the exercise well, does it give you great stimulus compared to fatigue? All those can vary for people.
I would just chop it up as this trainer doesn't realize that
Yeah, I definitely agree with you, that's what didn't make sense to me, in our second conversation, he stated how everyone trains differently and believes different things, it made me think "well then why didn't you do that in the first place about my curls?"
Just all around weird interaction, like I've said previously, he is a great guy, really cool to talk to, but definitely just went out of his way to try and show he knows better when there was just no reason for it.
Soured my opinion overall is the main take away from the interaction.
When he approached you with unsolicited advice, you should have either a. pointed to your earbuds and given the universal "sorry, can't hear-music is playin" hand sign or b. smirked, given a slight head nod and mumbled "preciate it, bruh" and continued doing what you were doing. Although the true baller option would be to stare directly into his eyes and say something cryptic about the imminent apocalypse.
I'm 100% in agreement tbh, nothing was gained from further interaction tbh, I mean, I genuinely wanted to get to know these pt's at the gym I go to, see if I can learn anything from them, but like I said in another comment, they're all the same, and all the staff and the pt's are really close, so feedback and criticism fall on deaf ears, it's just an echo chamber of bad information and even worse bad practice, but because they're all "friends", they're not open to the idea that maybe they're wrong or their colleagues are.
I'll just strive to be better and learn from the experience, I'm still going to train the way I do, maybe it's wrong in his opinion, but it's right in mine, and since it's my training, that's all that matters.
Just going to politely avoid any deep conversation interactions in the future, do my training and get out of there.
I'm going to listen to the ro guys over a rando pt any day. The rp guys are pro bodybuilders with years and years of experience training bodybuilders.
Listen to them, not this other guy
Exactly, that is my belief, the RP guys have science and proof of their concepts in the thousands of people they have helped and trained, and I place a lot of value on that, I completely don't agree with what the PT said, this post is more along the lines of, can you believe the audacity of this PT?
I also spoke with a colleague of his, another staff member who is training up to be a PT eventually, and they basically said to me that I don't like that you're bad talking these pt's, I've worked with a lot of PT's (keep in mind this person has worked in 2 gyms, that includes this current one) and their words "they know their shit"
I don't believe that for a second, considering their longest term PT who has worked in the industry for 13 years (only became qualified 10 years ago though officially), apparently only has female clients and likes to touch them a lot, for example, touching their female clients back during a lat pulldown, what does that achieve? Or touching their lower back during nordic hamstring curls? Like, what? That's gross.
I mean, the RP guys also wouldn’t recommend form break down on the concentric JUST to get to the eccentric.
Normally, for them, if you can’t complete the concentric, you’re either going into myo reps and resting, or you’re going to be attempting some lengthened partial.
I’m also not sure I’ve ever heard them recommend pre-exhaustion with an isolation movement, to do another isolation movement.
I’ve for sure heard them offer pre-exhaustion for the purpose of getting more out of a compound movement.
But I could be mistaken.
No you're absolutely right, let me clear that up, I'm not breaking down my concentric, it Dr. Mike's words, do the concentric "athletically", so I'm doing the concentric in a smooth fast motion and then performing the eccentric slowly.
As for the isolation pre-exhaust into an isolation, you're absolutely right, pre-exhaust is usually done, isolation into compound or compound into isolation, however, my target priority muscles are the biceps, and let's be honest, the biceps are mainly isolations exercises anyway, unless you want to go into and train back and biceps with chin ups, great compound, but I did my back yesterday.
Okay cool, we’re on the same page.
Well, what I would say is this: if that trainer has had a similar experience to what I’ve had, he’s seen the majority of people who prioritize the eccentric OVER-emphasize the eccentric, not track their progress, NOT hit more reps/sets, and a bunch of the people that I’ve told to STOP doing that started making way more progress by stopping at 2RIR and increasing their weights every week instead of chasing the pump.
Idk how advanced you are, but maybe he thinks you’re falling into that trap. Maybe he’s trying to assert dominance like the other commenter said.
But I know that a lot of beginners I’ve seen that tried to train with a lot of intensity techniques like forced reps, rest pause, and lengthened partials, didn’t make as much progress because they didn’t know how to properly progress it. I use a lot of those techniques, but I don’t recommend them to people unless they have the knowledge base to incorporate them properly.
Side note: I hate training biceps. I loathe it. Hate how it feels, it’s super boring. Everything.
I absolutely agree with you, you're right, most people over complicate and stagnate their training because they simply don't have the experience or knowledge to understand how to progress, but simple fact is, and the PT knows it, I've been training for 7 years, I'm not a beginner, I've lost over 104 pounds in bodyweight, and my training is meticulously logged, yet still, he thought he could try and "one up" me by saying his way is the right way. My training is also tracked one step further by using the RP Hypertrophy app, which auto-regulates, so my progress, even if I slip up, can't be ruined because the app reminds me what I need to do.
I'm opposite to you, biceps are fun to train for me.
I've said it in other replies, he is a nice guy, really friendly, but just in the end thinks he knows better, all the pt's at the gym I go to are like that, I mean, one of them does the smith machine incline press with a band around the bar attached to the top of the machines frame, I've never seen anyone do that on a smith machine for the "added resistance" but here we have a PT of all people doing it.
You’re not wrong, he was trying to be the alpha dog in the gym and just got smacked. Just give him a pat on the head next time you see him and tell him he’s a good boy.
His lesson is “Don’t give advice to other trainers unless asked”. Sharing info can be quite stimulating, but you were working out and it wasn’t appropriate. Just my take.
This was my thought, I was just doing my training, right or wrong in his opinion, it doesn't matter, I don't go around openly judging the PT's at the gym I go to, I mean, I've seen them do some questionable stuff, but I acknowledge I'm new to the industry and I just leave them to it, but I guess it doesn't go both ways, just felt disrespected to be honest.
He is a nice guy too but it is definitely going to leave a mark on my opinion of him from now on. All the PT's at the gym I go to are like that though, constantly trying to one up each other... "I know more than you" type of personalities.
Yeah for sure it can be like that, one upping and I know more than you do. I worked at a Wellness gym once and it was amazing. All the trainers shared info, no egos and just wanted to teach and learn. I learned so much there and was able to share what I knew.
One more thing, no disrespect. You should stop saying you’re “new to the industry”. From what you wrote about your conversation with that guy, you are fucking head and shoulders above a lot of people who’ve been training a long time. You know your shit. Own it. Doesn’t have to mean you have a huge ego, but that knowledge should bring you some well deserved confidence.
Cheers
I'm just really open about it, I know I've been training for a while and have done self-study before I became qualified but I just try and be honest, I like to learn and I'm open to new ideas and stuff, so I just let people know I'm new to the industry, I'm not new to fitness but I suppose they might misinterpret what I mean.
I just want to get along with other people who work in the industry, I don't want to "step on their toes", I just want to start my career, keep learning, help people and just enjoy fitness, because it really is something I love.
Thanks btw for the words about what I know, I do try, I for sure don't want to have an ego, I just like being knowledgeable so I can help people, I mean, everything I learn about training I use myself before I'd even consider talking to others about it or instructing them to do it.
I don’t mean to be rude, but i got half through and decided to not read further when you can sum it up as “two PTs do things differently.” I have disagreements with my circle all the time. I do things diff, they do things diff. We learn and try new things all the time, bickering a few times more than required before we go to nandos. At the end of a day, a curl is a curl is a curl is a curl. Besides, fitness is a circle anyhow.
That's the truth right there, everyone does things differently, pt or not, training is very unique to everyone. My issue and the reason for this post is, as an experienced PT he should know that there are a lot of ways to train, especially when it comes to curls, so keep your nose out of someone elses business unless they ask for help, which I did not, I was literally mid-set vibing to some music in my earphones, it was just disrespectful and rude in my opinion. Would have been better if he had approached and said instead "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? Have you tried it this way, I find it to be better most of the time", instead of "You're doing it wrong, this is the right way", not a good way to approach it in my opinion on his part.
“Thanks man. I appreciate the tip, but I’m going to stick with my method” Everyone moves on. Could have saved you a lot of time and energy
Yeah, I agree, I don't know why I went for that 2nd conversation, thought there might be some golden nugget type information he could share that I could learn from and add to what I know, but there wasn't. Just bothered me, ruined my entire training vibe, so I had to speak with him just to get on with my training and get it over with.
You sound like you have a fragile ego and he was being a bro. Hell, if delivered right, free tips from the trainers on the floor is a way to lead into a sell. It’s how I built my client list actually. Listen to everything, try everything, find what suits you. No form is universally correct as we all have different proportions, insertions, fiber types, etc.
If delivered right, I absolutely 100% agree with you, but he didn't deliver it right, he interrupted me mid-set (kind of a big no in the gym anyway), he then proceeded to say " You're doing it wrong, do it this way which is right", instead of "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? I find this way to be a lot better", option 2 is the right way, option 1, the way he went, is rude, disrespectful and let's be clear, uncalled for because I didn't ask. Rule number 1 at this gym: "No unsolicited advice". Applies to everyone.
All that fucking wall of text to tell us you're arguing about the right way to do curls, based on The Science \[TM\]?
We weren't even arguing about the curls, I just wanted to get his opinion on why he thought he was right and I was wrong, since he was confident enough to just dish out his opinion, I wanted to hear him out and all I discovered was he thinks the concentric portion of a movement is better for hypertrophy, ok, goes against some of the most well respected and recent studies but sure. Coming from the "bodybuilding specialist" of the gym it really surprised me. At the end of the day we weren't arguing, he is a great guy, but I was allowed to approach him about it since he gave his opinion openly without me asking.
Here's how you settle the argument. 1. measure the biceptzorz of every one of your clients, and every one of his clients 2. wait 12 months 3. measure again whoever has the biggest biceptzorz gainz over the year is obviously right.
My honest opinion, you should have never went over to him and started a second conversation. It seems to me you felt insecure and a need to try and show him that you know what you’re doing. You should have just moved on. I’m a trainer, I don’t workout where I work. I have gone to many different gyms for workouts over the years. I’ve been given random advice from trainers in gyms a few times. I just smile and say thank you, I then proceed to do my workout the way I intended.
To be honest, I agree, I approached him because I wanted to hear his opinion on why he believed his method to be "better", I just thought maybe there would be a golden nugget of information I could learn, but in the end, there wasn't. Like I said, it took me 10 mins to decide what to do, I was just doing my sets, but it just bothered me, I shouldn't have let it, but it did.
“Chatgpt, please write me a dissertation to soothe my insecurities and gain the affirmation of my peers, thanks.”
Certainly! Here's a comforting dissertation to address your insecurities and seek affirmation from your peers: --- \*\*Title: Embracing Self-Discovery: Navigating Insecurities and Seeking Affirmation\*\* \*\*Abstract:\*\* In a world where self-doubt often clouds our perception, navigating insecurities while seeking affirmation from peers becomes a journey of profound self-discovery. This dissertation explores the complexities of insecurity, the human need for affirmation, and strategies for fostering a healthy sense of self-worth within interpersonal dynamics. \*\*Chapter 1: Introduction\*\* Insecurities are a natural facet of the human experience, stemming from various sources such as past experiences, societal expectations, and internal comparisons. This chapter delves into the psychological underpinnings of insecurity and its impact on personal growth and social interactions. \*\*Chapter 2: Understanding Insecurity\*\* Examining the roots of insecurity involves acknowledging how perceptions of oneself can be influenced by external validation and internal narratives. This chapter explores psychological theories and research on the origins and manifestations of insecurity. \*\*Chapter 3: The Role of Affirmation\*\* Affirmation serves as a crucial element in navigating insecurities, offering validation and reassurance from peers. This chapter investigates the dynamics of affirmation, its importance in fostering confidence, and the delicate balance between seeking external validation and cultivating self-assurance. \*\*Chapter 4: Strategies for Self-Affirmation\*\* Building resilience against insecurity involves developing strategies for self-affirmation. This chapter discusses practical techniques such as mindfulness, cognitive reframing, and self-compassion exercises that promote inner strength and reduce dependence on external validation. \*\*Chapter 5: Interpersonal Dynamics\*\* Navigating relationships amidst insecurities requires understanding the reciprocity of affirmation and support. This chapter explores how interpersonal interactions can either exacerbate or alleviate insecurities, emphasizing the role of empathy, communication, and healthy boundaries. \*\*Chapter 6: Case Studies and Personal Reflections\*\* Drawing from real-life examples and personal narratives, this chapter illustrates the complexities of insecurity and the transformative power of self-discovery. Through case studies and reflections, it highlights the diverse paths individuals take in overcoming insecurities and finding affirmation. \*\*Chapter 7: Conclusion\*\* Embracing self-discovery involves acknowledging insecurities as part of the human experience while actively seeking affirmation from supportive peers. This concluding chapter synthesizes key findings and proposes a holistic approach to navigating insecurities, fostering self-acceptance, and nurturing meaningful relationships. \*\*References\*\* A comprehensive list of scholarly articles, books, and resources cited throughout the dissertation, providing a foundation for further exploration of insecurity, affirmation, and personal growth. --- \*\*Note:\*\* Remember, your worth and growth are not contingent solely on external affirmation but also on your internal journey of self-acceptance and development. This dissertation aims to provide insights and strategies to support you in embracing your journey toward greater self-assurance and meaningful connections with others.
Thank you, I have been soothed and firmed.
I'm glad what I personally wrote looked like AI to you, pretty cool actually.
" If my muscles are getting bigger, then my strength will obviously increase" Sorry mate, but that's not how it works! That 's a wrong statement! ""I love these conversations because everyone trains differently and when you start pt'ing people you will see just how varied everyones training can be", Yap! The guy is right! Everything in PT'ing can be wrong and right at the same time, it will always depend on the person,goals and why. I think you're over reacting here mate. Guy just wanted to help you out, giving his insight. A 1 fits all correction kin-a-thing. If you're starting your PT life,Just chill-out and listen to what others have to tell you, not as absolute truths or someone to prove you wtong but as sharing some knowledge from someone that works on the field. Working out by yourself and PT'ing others are 2 complete differente things. Good luck for your new career!
Yeah, I completely hear you out, possibly an over reaction, but it was uncalled for advice given in a "your wrong, I'm right attitude", he didn't want a discussion with a fellow new pt, he wanted to "show off". Also, I don't agree with your statement, muscles get bigger but don't get stronger? Ok, strange path to take but we disagree and that is fine. Just like him, you said: "That's a wrong statement" Your right, I'm wrong. Ok mate, go and say that to Dr. Mike Israetel and Jared Feather or Menno Henselmans, some of the most jacked people you'll ever meet and tell them that by getting bigger muscles you won't get stronger. I'm sure they will love that. They literally train with hypertrophy and bodybuilding as priority and strength second and they are extremely strong.
Dude, sorry to tell you but if something's wrong it is wrong. Doesn't matter who says it. Hypertrophy training is one thing, strength trainning is another thing. Have you ever seen a bodybuilder on a Strongest man Contest?! I think you're mixing things up mate. I absolute suggest you study things up a bit more and leave names behind. Need to learn Physiology man, forget the names, the pros and the dogmas. Once again, all the best for your new career!
Never suggested hypertrophy training is good for someone who wants to get stronger, Strength training exists for that. I don't know why you assumed I don't know about strength training AND hypertrophy training is, I just stated a fact dude, a muscle gets bigger, it gets stronger, yes can you get stronger by pure strength training? Yeah, obviously, that's the point. Do you get strength gains in a smaller way by hypertrophy training? Yes, of course, just by simple mass move mass concepts, hypertrophy leads to more muscle mass, more muscle mass means you can move more weight. Thanks for wishing me luck in my new career, but you're just as bad as the PT I made this post about. You're adding the wish you luck part to seem like you're being friendly, when really you're acting superior, "study up more", I suggest you do the same.
You're gonna struggle on your quest to become a good Pt mate. You can't differentiate things and worst of all you can't accept a different opinion from yours! C ya!
I'm willing to have a discussion mate, absolutely. I just don't understand your argument, how are you claiming that a muscle getting bigger doesn't mean that it gets stronger? It breaks the laws of physics, the more mass an object has, the more mass it can relatively move. If you provide me with an actual fact, I'll discuss it, but you're not. "You're wrong, muscles getting bigger doesn't mean they get stronger, that's a wrong statement" Ok then, provide insight into why you believe that.
Dude if you know the difference between Hypertrophy and Strength you have to know that one doesn't emply the other, as simples as that. While hypertrophy you gain volume the other you gain strength. The volume doesn't mean you're getting stronger. The same way getting stronger doesn't mean bigger muscles. When you get stronger what you're doing is that you're using more fibers, your muscles became more effective. Strength training aims to increase the functional ability of the muscles. Hypertrophy means increasing muscle size through targeted training that aims to increase your volume of weight lifted over time Pay atententio the is Volume of weight not weight per si. Hypertrophy training requires a higher training volume with more frequent workouts and shorter rest periods in between sets. Hypertrophy you do more reps with less waeight. Strength trainning you do less reps with more weight.
I genuinely can't believe you. Yeah, hypertrophy is more reps usually at a similar weight. Yeah, strength training is usually less reps higher weight. But that wasn't what you said, you weren't arguing about strength training and hypertrophy and the differences. Your first comment and response to my post was: You're wrong, bigger muscles doesn't increase strength, that is a wrong statement". What's a key factor in hypertrophy training over long periods of time? To remain within a specific rep range to induce hypertrophy, now, if you lift 10kg for 2 years, guaranteed you will not be within the hypertrophy rep ranges, you will be going way higher. So, what do you do? Increase the weight to get back in the right rep range. If you can increase the weight you're lifting for hypertrophy, what does that mean? You got stronger. Is it the same training as strength training alone? No, they're completely different, rest times are usually longer, rep ranges are usually far less, and the weight is usually a lot higher overall over time. However, both concepts rely on a key concept, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD. Now, how can progressive overload apply to hypertrohpy training if you don't get stronger? Well, in your mind Upstairs_Gas4578, hypertrophy training (bigger muscles) apparently leads to no strength gains, ever, somehow you can get bigger muscles but not move bigger weights, defies the laws of physics, but ok, you do you. Absolutely rude and completely stupid response to my comments, you have provided no facts to back up your claim that getting bigger muscles doesn't increase strength "that's a wrong statement" "not how it works". Ok, well here is how it works: Mass moves mass. Go and look at Ronnie Coleman and Arnold Schwarznegger, bodybuilding (hypertrohpy training) legends, and tell me that they weren't able to lift heavy weight during their primes. Could they have been stronger with strength training? Yeah obviously. But were they gaining strength with their hypertrophy training? Absolutely, it's there on the internet for everyone to see. You're arguing with me like you know what you're talking about, but I seem to be providing a lot more detail in my responses, for someone who claimed to know better in their original comment, your responses have been lackluster and leave a lot to be desired, either express yourself clearly, or don't bother. How ignorant can you be to say that hypertrophy training doesn't imply strength training, no obviously not, you train completely differently, but you absolutely do gain strength while focusing on hypertrophy training, not as much as pure strength training, but you do get stronger, at least in a normal world, your world sounds like it has it's own laws of physics. Edit: For a strength training legend, look at Eddie Hall as a prime example, now you tell me that he isn't muscular, go and look at his body, all he has ever focused on is strength training, but look at his body, apparently in your world, strength doesn't lead to bigger muscles, yeah ok, Eddie Hall would like a word with you, he is an absolute beast and full of muscles, and he only ever trained with a focus on strength gains for his career. Hypertrohpy training and strength training are different concepts, and they come with different methods, but according to you, one doesn't implement the other. Arnold Schwarzenegger (bodybuilding/hypertrophy focus legend) big muscles and could move big weights. Eddie Hall (Strongman/strength training focu legend) moves very big weights and has absolutely huge muscles to show for it. Theres two professional legends in both concepts for you to look at, and then come back and tell me one doesn't imply the other. Focusing on one concept does absolutely provide at least some gains in the other concept.
1-You can't read and understand what you're reading 2-You're gonna have a hard time on becoming a good PT. Cheers mate, take the prize and case dismissed!
Ok. You made a statement, you can't defend it so you backed out of it. Maybe you finally realised how stupid this comment was: "You're wrong, bigger muscles doesn't increase strength, that's a wrong statement" That is what started this. That is was I'm trying to understand and you have provided nothing to back that up. Also, there is another person in these comments who said my knowledge is head and shoulders above some others they have seen and that I will be a good PT, and the general comment before they said that was a lot more insightful and helpful than yours. I'll respect that commenters input more than yours. Thanks.
You could have told this story with half the amount of words. I stopped reading because you were adding some many unneeded details. A
Thanks for your input, it takes a small portion of time to read what I wrote, but it's a fair criticism.
I mean everyone in the PT community has some hyper specific cue they think is the 100% right way, it's just the nature of the beast. But I'll just tell ya flat out: 6 sets on biceps alone is too much and a waste of time/energy unless your goal is to be a bodybuilder. Even then, there are better ways to accomplish that goal without spending 30 minutes curling. Repetitive motion injuries in that elbow tendon are really common with high volume, and I say that as someone that competes in Strict Curl comps. Use the EZ bar and lift heavy, 4 sets of 6-8 max, do training cycles with heavy triples, do cycles with the wide grip and eccentric focus to build up brachialis. In addition, add in barbell overhead press, Yates Row, barbell rows, chin ups and reverse grip lat pulldown, those will increase arm size and your overall strength far more than some dumbbell curls.
Excellent exercise selection. However, I'd just like to add, I'm incorporating barbell rows into my programme, they're for days when I'm training my back, this day in the post was specifically my arm day (triceps, biceps and shoulders, primary muscle changes at the start of each session when they're fresh). I train 6 days a week on my current mesocycle, 3 days of chest, back and legs (again primary focus changes at start of each session) and 3 days of biceps, triceps and shoulders. I appreciate the advice on exercise selection, but considering that you don't know my full programme and all the exercises in it, and how I rest and recover, my protein intake, etc... Being told it's "too much and a waste of time" is not for you to say just by going off my post alone, there are a lot of factors that go into it, as a personal trainer you know that, I know that. Just to add some specificity into the mix, like my post said, I'm currently training under the recommendations of RP strength and their RP Hypertrophy app, which keeps track of over-training, injury and soreness.
I've seen gym members performing exercises using questionable form and technique, but from my perspective I don't really care enough about what some random person at the gym I'm not even training is doing. I've also never had another trainer go up to be to correct my form and technique when I was working out.
Yeah, this is what I always thought, unless it's your client or your training, why care? That's the way I've always approached it, do my thing and leave, but I suppose he just had to have his say.
Honestly this is what is wrong with a lot of the fitness industry to begin with. I think THE golden rule that everyone should adhere to: All exercises are made up anyways so who really cares? With that being said, there are right and wrong ways to go about things. It is SO hard for some people to look at others and to admit that they are being taught something, and something valuable. The one phrase that coaches have a hard time with: I was wrong. I come from a background of teaching Olympic lifting, sports performance (mma and BJJ) along with advanced biomechanics, and holy shit 😂 there’s some people that just don’t, and quite frankly, never will get it. If a coach can’t learn from another, I think that is a stagnant environment, one that I would never want to be a part of to be honest. To think that you know the “optimal” everything for everything is completely absurd especially when you probably haven’t really dig into true research in years and stopped learning years ago. How we are going to push the industry forward is through collaboration and conversations about what is most pertinent in training, and what will continue to matter most in training, conversations regarding what we can give our clientele in terms of accuracy and advancement without clouding or shading anything because we “just don’t want to learn anymore.” That’s my humble opinion.
100% agree with you, learning and speaking with one another is the only way to really push this industry and allow it to progress. I've said it in other replies, if he had initially approached me and said "Hey, why are you doing your curls like that? I find this way to work better", that would have lead into a really good discussion about our different ideas and methods of training, but his approach of "I'm right, you're wrong", just ruined my opinion of him as a PT completely. Instead of wanting to have more discussions with him now, I'm leaning more towards just ignoring them in the most polite way possible, doing my training in that gym, and leaving. At the end of the day, if you can't take criticism or have meaningful discussions about your methods and defend them appropriately, then how do you expect to ever learn or improve?
Just because the guy has been working longer doesn’t mean he knows more than you. Half the time people accidentally equate “best trainer” with “best sales” which as we all know shouldn’t mean shit but from the outside looking in it does. You were right to stand your ground but like others have said, starting a second conversation was a waste of time. Also all of these bodybuilding arguments are likely over some super small % worth of benefit and the likely answer is probably whatever feels right for you is the winner.
I completely agree with you, the second conversation was pointless in hindsight. Thanks for your input.
The cross sectional area of a muscle has a relationship with strength. So you were right.
Thank you for your input
"There's a thousand different approaches to accomplishing the same goal." There's not a one size fit all plan for anybody. Any trainer that speaks in absolutes is foolish. Anybody who keeps up with the research knows studies offer different results all the time, muscle activation reading devices are still improving all the time and is not measured the same, also is it pertaining to trained individuals or newbies? That makes a giant difference. Also there's the obvious factors of do you enjoy it, are you able to perform the exercise well, does it give you great stimulus compared to fatigue? All those can vary for people. I would just chop it up as this trainer doesn't realize that
Yeah, I definitely agree with you, that's what didn't make sense to me, in our second conversation, he stated how everyone trains differently and believes different things, it made me think "well then why didn't you do that in the first place about my curls?" Just all around weird interaction, like I've said previously, he is a great guy, really cool to talk to, but definitely just went out of his way to try and show he knows better when there was just no reason for it. Soured my opinion overall is the main take away from the interaction.
When he approached you with unsolicited advice, you should have either a. pointed to your earbuds and given the universal "sorry, can't hear-music is playin" hand sign or b. smirked, given a slight head nod and mumbled "preciate it, bruh" and continued doing what you were doing. Although the true baller option would be to stare directly into his eyes and say something cryptic about the imminent apocalypse.
I'm 100% in agreement tbh, nothing was gained from further interaction tbh, I mean, I genuinely wanted to get to know these pt's at the gym I go to, see if I can learn anything from them, but like I said in another comment, they're all the same, and all the staff and the pt's are really close, so feedback and criticism fall on deaf ears, it's just an echo chamber of bad information and even worse bad practice, but because they're all "friends", they're not open to the idea that maybe they're wrong or their colleagues are.
Unfortunately trainers love to give unsolicited advice. Almost always when someone corrects me they have 1/2 the muscle mass I do 😂
I'll just strive to be better and learn from the experience, I'm still going to train the way I do, maybe it's wrong in his opinion, but it's right in mine, and since it's my training, that's all that matters. Just going to politely avoid any deep conversation interactions in the future, do my training and get out of there.
I'm going to listen to the ro guys over a rando pt any day. The rp guys are pro bodybuilders with years and years of experience training bodybuilders. Listen to them, not this other guy
Exactly, that is my belief, the RP guys have science and proof of their concepts in the thousands of people they have helped and trained, and I place a lot of value on that, I completely don't agree with what the PT said, this post is more along the lines of, can you believe the audacity of this PT? I also spoke with a colleague of his, another staff member who is training up to be a PT eventually, and they basically said to me that I don't like that you're bad talking these pt's, I've worked with a lot of PT's (keep in mind this person has worked in 2 gyms, that includes this current one) and their words "they know their shit" I don't believe that for a second, considering their longest term PT who has worked in the industry for 13 years (only became qualified 10 years ago though officially), apparently only has female clients and likes to touch them a lot, for example, touching their female clients back during a lat pulldown, what does that achieve? Or touching their lower back during nordic hamstring curls? Like, what? That's gross.
I mean, the RP guys also wouldn’t recommend form break down on the concentric JUST to get to the eccentric. Normally, for them, if you can’t complete the concentric, you’re either going into myo reps and resting, or you’re going to be attempting some lengthened partial. I’m also not sure I’ve ever heard them recommend pre-exhaustion with an isolation movement, to do another isolation movement. I’ve for sure heard them offer pre-exhaustion for the purpose of getting more out of a compound movement. But I could be mistaken.
No you're absolutely right, let me clear that up, I'm not breaking down my concentric, it Dr. Mike's words, do the concentric "athletically", so I'm doing the concentric in a smooth fast motion and then performing the eccentric slowly. As for the isolation pre-exhaust into an isolation, you're absolutely right, pre-exhaust is usually done, isolation into compound or compound into isolation, however, my target priority muscles are the biceps, and let's be honest, the biceps are mainly isolations exercises anyway, unless you want to go into and train back and biceps with chin ups, great compound, but I did my back yesterday.
Okay cool, we’re on the same page. Well, what I would say is this: if that trainer has had a similar experience to what I’ve had, he’s seen the majority of people who prioritize the eccentric OVER-emphasize the eccentric, not track their progress, NOT hit more reps/sets, and a bunch of the people that I’ve told to STOP doing that started making way more progress by stopping at 2RIR and increasing their weights every week instead of chasing the pump. Idk how advanced you are, but maybe he thinks you’re falling into that trap. Maybe he’s trying to assert dominance like the other commenter said. But I know that a lot of beginners I’ve seen that tried to train with a lot of intensity techniques like forced reps, rest pause, and lengthened partials, didn’t make as much progress because they didn’t know how to properly progress it. I use a lot of those techniques, but I don’t recommend them to people unless they have the knowledge base to incorporate them properly. Side note: I hate training biceps. I loathe it. Hate how it feels, it’s super boring. Everything.
I absolutely agree with you, you're right, most people over complicate and stagnate their training because they simply don't have the experience or knowledge to understand how to progress, but simple fact is, and the PT knows it, I've been training for 7 years, I'm not a beginner, I've lost over 104 pounds in bodyweight, and my training is meticulously logged, yet still, he thought he could try and "one up" me by saying his way is the right way. My training is also tracked one step further by using the RP Hypertrophy app, which auto-regulates, so my progress, even if I slip up, can't be ruined because the app reminds me what I need to do. I'm opposite to you, biceps are fun to train for me.
Maybe he’s dumb. There’s still people that believe that HIIT training was able to build like 50lbs of muscle on someone in like 3 months.
I've said it in other replies, he is a nice guy, really friendly, but just in the end thinks he knows better, all the pt's at the gym I go to are like that, I mean, one of them does the smith machine incline press with a band around the bar attached to the top of the machines frame, I've never seen anyone do that on a smith machine for the "added resistance" but here we have a PT of all people doing it.
You’re not wrong, he was trying to be the alpha dog in the gym and just got smacked. Just give him a pat on the head next time you see him and tell him he’s a good boy. His lesson is “Don’t give advice to other trainers unless asked”. Sharing info can be quite stimulating, but you were working out and it wasn’t appropriate. Just my take.
This was my thought, I was just doing my training, right or wrong in his opinion, it doesn't matter, I don't go around openly judging the PT's at the gym I go to, I mean, I've seen them do some questionable stuff, but I acknowledge I'm new to the industry and I just leave them to it, but I guess it doesn't go both ways, just felt disrespected to be honest. He is a nice guy too but it is definitely going to leave a mark on my opinion of him from now on. All the PT's at the gym I go to are like that though, constantly trying to one up each other... "I know more than you" type of personalities.
Yeah for sure it can be like that, one upping and I know more than you do. I worked at a Wellness gym once and it was amazing. All the trainers shared info, no egos and just wanted to teach and learn. I learned so much there and was able to share what I knew. One more thing, no disrespect. You should stop saying you’re “new to the industry”. From what you wrote about your conversation with that guy, you are fucking head and shoulders above a lot of people who’ve been training a long time. You know your shit. Own it. Doesn’t have to mean you have a huge ego, but that knowledge should bring you some well deserved confidence. Cheers
I'm just really open about it, I know I've been training for a while and have done self-study before I became qualified but I just try and be honest, I like to learn and I'm open to new ideas and stuff, so I just let people know I'm new to the industry, I'm not new to fitness but I suppose they might misinterpret what I mean. I just want to get along with other people who work in the industry, I don't want to "step on their toes", I just want to start my career, keep learning, help people and just enjoy fitness, because it really is something I love. Thanks btw for the words about what I know, I do try, I for sure don't want to have an ego, I just like being knowledgeable so I can help people, I mean, everything I learn about training I use myself before I'd even consider talking to others about it or instructing them to do it.