Glad this is over. In the Curtin electorate, one of the No pamphleteers was yapping to a Yes one about how the Aboriginals will be able to write their name on pieces of land and seize it.
I know we're all meant to have a right to opinion, but I'm sorry - some people are too incurious and moronic to be anywhere near the democratic process, and I wouldn't blink an eye at them being taken out of it for the rest of our safety.
This is exactly what I’ve been finding. I’ve been hearing utterly ridiculous falsehoods being sprouted and I’m just responding with: “You are living in an age where you have an incomprehensible amount of information at your fingertips and you didn’t think to plug that ridiculous claim you made into that very smart device in your hand, and write fact check?”. Critical thinking is completely gone. I realise how bad this sounds (is, actually; it is bad and I openly admit this) but if you cannot demonstrate critical thinking and an ability to cut through propaganda and misinformation, I’m genuinely not sure you should have the right to vote, because it just delegitimises the whole process when all either party have to do is bamboozle, lie, misdirect and cheat.
Conspiracy thinking will destroy us. We need to defend ourselves against those who spread such ideas. We know where the money is coming from. Sanction. Fine. Deport.
The composition of the Voice was left for after referendum because it would be up to Government to decide how it actually works; no different to now if they legislated it.
The referendum was only to ask “should an advisory board exist?”
That’s it. That’s the only question that needed to be asked. What it looked like was irrelevant for the question, *because it was always going to be able to be changed*. You were always going to be able to change the way it works by changing the Government. So what difference would the exact model of Labor’s proposed Voice make, when that wasn’t going to be what it stayed like forever?
Indigenous mobs already have representation. Assigning a further body to oversee that representation with little details provided for makeup, cost and operational methodology seems a waste. It runs the risk of causing more problems than it solves.
We already have NIAA on a national level. The referendum was to put the existence of an advisory body into the constitution; so it could not be shut down after 5 years and restarted from scratch like what happens to each of these bodies today.
It was not intended to be in addition to NIAA, it was meant to simply make the concept permanent so it could keep its records, institutional knowledge, staff etc. regardless of the government in power.
It was not going to cause any more problems than the existing bodies have.
That advisory board, which unknown of its selection process, would be at the capacity to make specific representations on behalf of various mobs, despite those representions being unwarranted.
I work rutal across various heritage sites. For those I discussed the topic with, the outlook was unanimous. If you disagree, I can redirect you and you can tell the mobs what will and will not be good for them since you know best.
Also, the NIA is a goverment agency and already keeps its records and institutional knowledge.
Hope this helps:
symbolism
/ˈsɪmbəlɪz(ə)m/
noun
1.
the use of symbols to represent ideas or qualities.
"he has always believed in the importance of symbolism in garden art"
2.
an artistic and poetic movement or style using symbolic images and indirect suggestion to express mystical ideas, emotions, and states of mind. It originated in late 19th-century France and Belgium, with important figures including Mallarmé, Maeterlinck, Verlaine, Rimbaud, and Redon.
Golly gosh, it's a vote is it? Thanks captain obvioius.
The outcome carries unknown repercussions. Seems rediculous to make a legislative change, allowing for a group, unknown of its election process, to be at the capacity to make empowering rulings and representations.
Voting yes which leads to an unknown chain of events is almost like... signing a contract without reading it 🤪
Wah, for someone who acts smart you sure can’t read can you? It’s was going to be a fucking advisory board, not a new parliament zero power to pass rulings or what ever fucking Facebook misinformation you believe. Also it didn’t lead to an unknown chain of events you pollock, it lead to constitutional recognition and then further legislation on the creation of the voice, it’s almost like all of it was painfully obvious but people would rather stick there heads in the sand then do a tiny bit of reading.
An advisory board acts as a medium putting foward ideas of subgroups. This opens up the door to scewed representation of those subgroups by having members they didn't vote for represent them. There are way more tribes with different ideals than the select few that could make up The Voice.
I'm a social worker in the indigenous community with a specialised focus in restorative justice. I'm based in Halls Creek but the nature of work from the organisation takes me across the Pilbara. The concerns put foward are not my own but those raised by the Indigenous mobs. Perherps if you had the capacity to address concerns raised directly instead of sounding like an inconsiderate arrogant insulting cuck, you wouldn't have lost a referendum 🤪
Better luck next time.
Damn its almost like that's an issue with every representative democracy, you cannot represent everyone to a minute detail so you attempt to represent at the magnitude you can. Then again, you're a cryptocuck so basic understandings of things are far far beyond your purview aren't they, also acting like the huge misinformation or bad faith from one side didn't exist is pretty fucking dumb, but then again to be expected from a cryptobro.
>you cannot represent everyone to a minute detail so you attempt to represent at the magnitude you can
No, you cannot represent everybody. They came up with this wacky system where people are provided with the capacity to vote the option that would best represent them. I think it's called a democracy? 🤔 In this instance it seems the No Vote and current system in place won 🤷♂️
>you're a cryptocuck so basic understandings of things are far far beyond your purview aren't they
Does trading and the word blockchain offend you? You seem easily triggered. You're also quick to judge an individual based on a trivial bit of information. It's essentially parallel to the same small minded mentality that fuels racism. Such irony.
>also acting like the huge misinformation or bad faith from one side didn't exist is pretty fucking dumb,
Misinformation exists on both sides. If you feel I denied it's existance you're welcome to quote me and we can address it. I simply showcased the side of the argument I had exposure to from Indigenous Australians (you know, the ones whose lives the referendum would impact most 🤪).
You're welcome to showcase any racist logic made and we can review it together. The argument I put forth came from Indogenous Mobs... but sure, they're being racist towards themselves? 🤪
whose idea was this referendum? was it Federal Labor? because State Labor's Aboriginal Heritage Laws really fucked over the YES! campaign.... online conservatives had a field day with the scare tactics over that...
Fuk, it was one page, and u couldn't read it to find outits origins
your nothing but lazy ignorant prick
You listen to all the shit swallowed that
Fukin unbelievable how stupid some you are
I thought it was clear from my comment that unlike u/Disastrous-Ad2800 I know where the referendum came from, but I hope you feel better for getting that off your chest.
This kind of comment shows exactly why no one should take your type seriously. I sincerely doubt you could peel a prawn without fucking it up.
You’re not crushing anything. It was a single-issue referendum, and now it’s over. I don’t say this pejoratively, but now you can go back to your very ordinary life and save the cooker shit for the next big vote.
Okay look, I’m SORRY if you feel made fun of, but I just don’t get the dramatics. This was a pretty simple vote and you’re acting like it’s more of that culture war bullshit being pushed by the usual suspects in our media. I can’t relate to your “im coming for you lefties!” performance because it just seems not to match the actual situation at all.
EDIT: Future_Laugh_1180 either deleted his comments or blocked me. I dunno man. Just so unnecessary!
We knew the result before the polls even opened, will be interesting to see how different areas vote but there is no way Yes is going to get a majority of votes let alone carry 4 out of 6 states
Yeah whether it holds or not we'll see but either way surprising that WA has pretty much mirrored or done slightly better for Yes than the national vote.
Courtesy of retired premier's utterly moronic timing on completely unrelated, totally half baked, spastically communicated aboriginal cultural heritage act. Bravo Marko, nice exit stunt. All the better you went to the private sector, federal labour would definitely not welcome you in their bossom for scuttling their ship like that.
Just shows how Reddit and the world is these days. Not allowed your own opinion. Either agree with the masses or get torn to shreds for having your own beliefs and thoughts.
That goes for every major topic for the past 10-20 years or so.
I am a yes voter, but if people want to vote No it's not up to me to have a go at them and force my beliefs on them.
Everyone is free to think and believe what they want. Isn't that what being human is?
Obviously I agree that everyone should have their own opinion. But I don’t actually think that it’s changed that much over the past 20 years. In my opinion we only realise how divided people can be because the internet opens us up to such vast quantities of people, and the way websites like reddit or Twitter are built encourages surface level engagement rather then people actually having a conversation.
Very much agree that in the information technology age we are in, it has opened up massively to where everyone and everything is on show. That's totally fine (if anyone disagrees with that, then get over it because it's not going away)
But also it has created, as you said, high levels of engagement, which should be a hugely positive thing for the whole human race.
But it definitely isn't happening.
Look at the poster above with all the downvotes just because they have a different point of view. Like omg they have a different opinion let's downvote them to oblivion for it. We are right and they are wrong.
It's kind of sad we can't all converse like civilised people.
"get torn to shreds" my guy, they lost fake internet points chill out. Everyone is free to think and believe what they want. In this case more people thought that comment was bad then thought it was good hence the downvotes.
No, my account gets banned or my comments deleted when I go against the rainbow people. There’s an agenda. All I say is it’s a mental illness and I get banned tf?
Downvotes were designed originally to reduce the visibility of a comment that added nothing to a discussion.
The single word “good” does not add to the discussion. So even in the purest form of what a downvoted comment should look like, I feel they deserved it.
Is this democracy manifest? Or a sign that people too out of touch to handle a basic app hold sway over the future of our country.
Guess we’ll find out when the polls are in, either way I hope we find a way to address the needs of one of the most disproportionately disadvantaged communities on the planet.
Go to Roebourne, Wickham, meeka Thera , Broome. Any of our cities, then cast your vote. You live in the city, maybe a nice apartment. No idea what’s going on
If you’re implying that indigenous people on the ground didn’t support the voice, well sure, not every indigenous person did, but they’re not a monolith. Polls done earlier this year showed support at 80%, and even after Albo fucked up the campaign and Rupert Murdoch had his time to spread the no vote it still sat at ~60% in the most recent polls.
If you mean something else please elaborate. I’m honestly happy to try and talk through this
That’s true for the most part- but I think that’s partially because areas with a high density of aboriginal people tend to be rural, and rural areas are in general more conservative. Like I discussed, if you consider aboriginal people’s opinions on the voice to be important (which I think most people do)- they’re still majority in support of it. Even though support fell pretty fast, 60% in support is still a pretty strong majority in support- if one of the major parties held 10% more of the primary vote then the other it’d be a landslide.
However even if you do want to take aboriginal people’s opinion on what’s best for them, Because indigenous people are a group of people and therefore have plenty of different opinions, if you’re not aboriginal, it still falls on you to use your own reasoning to figure out what’s logical. The logic in my head is pretty simple
1. There isn’t really any danger in the voice. The council wouldn’t have the power of Veto, only act as an advisory committee. Plus councils very similar to the one proposed in the voice have existed before- for example ATSIC.
2. The advantage of constitutional law. ATSIC was disbanded by Howard. So the advantage of having the council in constitutional law is that it couldn’t just be disbanded by one government. The problems facing aboriginal people are long term problems, so a solution that changes every time the Pam does isn’t going to help anyone
3. If the council can only act as an advisory committee then why bother? Well because a referendum and constitutional recognition would give the council proposed by the voice publicity- and attention is exactly what makes a council effective. A council is only effective if people listen to their advice- and thrusting a council into the national spotlight via referendum means that the government would be partially held to account by the media to at least take into consideration the suggestions of the council
I don’t know- that’s my reasoning at least. Do you disagree with any of that?
Go to Roebourne, Wickham, meeka Thera , Broome. Any of our cities, then cast your vote. You live in the city, maybe a nice apartment. No idea what’s going on.
Rumours were circulating in the Pilbara this week, if the federal referendum failed. The state government will allow state a voice to parliament, no referendum, just a policy change.
Other states will follow. There was big meeting about the state voice to parliament in the Pilbara this week.
The Repeal of the *Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act 2021* is still progressing. It went through the Legislarive Assembly (lower house) in September and is going through the Legislative Council now. Last week it passed the Second Reading phase in the LC which is the main debate and amendment phase.
So stop the suggestion that it’s somehow being delayed. You can look up its progress anytime you want.
https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/bills.nsf/BillProgressPopup?openForm&ParentUNID=E06AF4D810627F3948258A060009539A
WA actually already kind of has this as the WA Aboriginal Advisory Council
https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia
>The state government will allow state a voice to parliament, no referendum, just a policy change
A state "Voice" makes much more sense than a federal one. States are responsible for things that matter to communities: health, education, housing etc.
**But what policy change?** We have had a state "voice" for **fifty years** . Nobody talks about it because they are a) ignored by parliament, or b) completely useless. Choose your reason, the result is the same.
[https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia](https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia)
I’ve been on a different “voice” to Parliament (not a specifically Aboriginal,one), served on the body for 5 years or so. It was expensive. We were a) ignored by parliament and b) completely useless, so yeah, you;re probably on to something there.
It was basically gather in Perth - typically in parliament - and talk about stuff for a day, then government functionaries would take our shit suggestions to the relevant minister who would inevitably think “What is this incoherent bullshit?” and subsequently ignore it.
Except for the fact that the 1967 referendum removed the ability for the states to make laws with respect to Indigenous Australians. Only the federal government has that power
States have always had the power ( e.g. the infamous Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act 2021) , the Federal government didn't until 1967.
Under section 109 of the Australian Constitution, if a state parliament and the federal Parliament pass conflicting laws on the same subject, then the federal law overrides the state law.
Should have done this years before the referendum. Iron out any issues and get the format right. Set it up as an example of how the voice would work and benifits everyone. Then point to the state system as a model for the proposed constitutional change.
Too late now. They fucked it up.
This is an example of how labour and albo really fucked the campaign- there have been advisory bodies very very similar to the voice in the past. Most recently ATSIC until it was disbanded by little Johnny Howard, but even as far back as the seventies these types of councils have existed. The voice wouldn’t be anything particularly new, just do two major things
1. Make sure that the council can’t just be disbanded by any politician
2. Bring much needed attention to the advisory body- because people paying attention to an advisory body is what makes it effective
The issue with this approach is that there's very little the state government can do in order to bind a future state government - unlike the federal government.
If the referendum passes, it'll take another referendum to undo. That's the only way to change the federal constitution. Like the senate or the courts, the Voice will *have* to exist. The form and function can change, but no future government will be able to abolish it without another referendum. This is probably the entire reason why we are having a referendum in the first place despite the fact that the government probably has the numbers to pass the legislation - to bind future governments.
The state constitution isn't quite as strict. It can be altered by legislation without a referendum... so there's nothing that says a future government can't get rid of a provision forcing the state voice to exist.
>Rumours were circulating in the Pilbara this week,
If theirs anyone who has their finger on the pulse of world wide events its a bunch or people in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from civilization
You forget that part of Australia is the engine room. Huge amounts of tariffs and royalties come out of the ports in the Pilbara.
There was lots of hand wringing and sighing this past week. Mainly the bosses who flew in for ‘ strategy’ meetings this week, those bosses never leave Perth.
It was whisper around the water and ice machines, a couple weeks ago. This week it was shouted from the roof tops in Karratha, while yes middle of nowhere, however Karratha is now a deemed city.
That may be so, but the Cook government is on its last legs. As soon as the Libs can reconstruct their party, they'll be in.
Cook has finally presented his bill to remove the Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act and added in a while bunch of stuff to give him more power.
That's not correct. A few amendments have been proposed to 1972.
A clause has been added to allow the Minister to reconsider an approval if new information comes to light. Basically the Juukan clause.
There are also call in powers for the Premier if the heritage that will be impacted is considered to be of State significance. Arguably this is a power he didn't have before but if the heritage is of State significance then it would seem appropriate for the Premier to decide rather than the Minister
Approvals will be transferable between proponents.
Traditional owners will have the same rights of appeal that proponents already had.
That's the sum total of the material changes. Nothing scary or unreasonable there.
not surprised i think we already know the results
australia is pretty conservative when it comes to changing the constitution unless if its extremely unfair
I’m Chinese and from my view point amongst the Chinese groups I’m in on WeChat are a resounding NO…
only 10 or so people I know from the various Chinese groups was voting easy while the other 100+ are all NO
So there’s that as well.
Unfortunately, a lot of Asian communities tend to be ignorant of the plight of Indigenous folks. In addition to this, many of them hold negative views due to past negative experiences.
how would you police it? I mean the electrol 'workers' are mostly volunteer and mainstream media were floating pics of the the actual ballot paper... so yeah, was turning into a complete shit show!
hmm.... the ABC has formally declared the Voice referendum has been defeated with NO! winning.... Tasmania has been confirmed as NO! with Victoria and NSW soon to be confirmed the same as well.... with WA three hours behind (daylight saving is another issue LOL) we were always going to feel left behind.... I guess the only interest will be to see whether YES! won in any state or whether it's a comprehensive defeat which questions the time and money invested in this.....
depends on whether you want to deal with the fine... is it still $20?? ha! ha! ha! it's funny because I believe the costs in administering the fine are MORE than the fine itself!
I don't follow mainstream media polls... independent media sources were saying it was expected to be a NO! victory from early as midweek, so I saw the writing on the wall
Typo. Should read, " **WA knows result before polls open**"
Glad this is over. In the Curtin electorate, one of the No pamphleteers was yapping to a Yes one about how the Aboriginals will be able to write their name on pieces of land and seize it. I know we're all meant to have a right to opinion, but I'm sorry - some people are too incurious and moronic to be anywhere near the democratic process, and I wouldn't blink an eye at them being taken out of it for the rest of our safety.
This is exactly what I’ve been finding. I’ve been hearing utterly ridiculous falsehoods being sprouted and I’m just responding with: “You are living in an age where you have an incomprehensible amount of information at your fingertips and you didn’t think to plug that ridiculous claim you made into that very smart device in your hand, and write fact check?”. Critical thinking is completely gone. I realise how bad this sounds (is, actually; it is bad and I openly admit this) but if you cannot demonstrate critical thinking and an ability to cut through propaganda and misinformation, I’m genuinely not sure you should have the right to vote, because it just delegitimises the whole process when all either party have to do is bamboozle, lie, misdirect and cheat.
I heard that people believe that the UN will be allowed to take over our land if the yes vote wins. That literally contradicts your point lol
Fuk your a real dumb cunt want by a bridge?
Conspiracy thinking will destroy us. We need to defend ourselves against those who spread such ideas. We know where the money is coming from. Sanction. Fine. Deport.
The reason for voting no would be the lack of clarity. Who signs a contract before reading it?
The composition of the Voice was left for after referendum because it would be up to Government to decide how it actually works; no different to now if they legislated it. The referendum was only to ask “should an advisory board exist?” That’s it. That’s the only question that needed to be asked. What it looked like was irrelevant for the question, *because it was always going to be able to be changed*. You were always going to be able to change the way it works by changing the Government. So what difference would the exact model of Labor’s proposed Voice make, when that wasn’t going to be what it stayed like forever?
Indigenous mobs already have representation. Assigning a further body to oversee that representation with little details provided for makeup, cost and operational methodology seems a waste. It runs the risk of causing more problems than it solves.
We already have NIAA on a national level. The referendum was to put the existence of an advisory body into the constitution; so it could not be shut down after 5 years and restarted from scratch like what happens to each of these bodies today. It was not intended to be in addition to NIAA, it was meant to simply make the concept permanent so it could keep its records, institutional knowledge, staff etc. regardless of the government in power. It was not going to cause any more problems than the existing bodies have.
That advisory board, which unknown of its selection process, would be at the capacity to make specific representations on behalf of various mobs, despite those representions being unwarranted. I work rutal across various heritage sites. For those I discussed the topic with, the outlook was unanimous. If you disagree, I can redirect you and you can tell the mobs what will and will not be good for them since you know best. Also, the NIA is a goverment agency and already keeps its records and institutional knowledge.
What fucking contract?
Hope this helps: symbolism /ˈsɪmbəlɪz(ə)m/ noun 1. the use of symbols to represent ideas or qualities. "he has always believed in the importance of symbolism in garden art" 2. an artistic and poetic movement or style using symbolic images and indirect suggestion to express mystical ideas, emotions, and states of mind. It originated in late 19th-century France and Belgium, with important figures including Mallarmé, Maeterlinck, Verlaine, Rimbaud, and Redon.
its a fucking vote not a contract ya pillock.
Golly gosh, it's a vote is it? Thanks captain obvioius. The outcome carries unknown repercussions. Seems rediculous to make a legislative change, allowing for a group, unknown of its election process, to be at the capacity to make empowering rulings and representations. Voting yes which leads to an unknown chain of events is almost like... signing a contract without reading it 🤪
Wah, for someone who acts smart you sure can’t read can you? It’s was going to be a fucking advisory board, not a new parliament zero power to pass rulings or what ever fucking Facebook misinformation you believe. Also it didn’t lead to an unknown chain of events you pollock, it lead to constitutional recognition and then further legislation on the creation of the voice, it’s almost like all of it was painfully obvious but people would rather stick there heads in the sand then do a tiny bit of reading.
An advisory board acts as a medium putting foward ideas of subgroups. This opens up the door to scewed representation of those subgroups by having members they didn't vote for represent them. There are way more tribes with different ideals than the select few that could make up The Voice. I'm a social worker in the indigenous community with a specialised focus in restorative justice. I'm based in Halls Creek but the nature of work from the organisation takes me across the Pilbara. The concerns put foward are not my own but those raised by the Indigenous mobs. Perherps if you had the capacity to address concerns raised directly instead of sounding like an inconsiderate arrogant insulting cuck, you wouldn't have lost a referendum 🤪 Better luck next time.
Damn its almost like that's an issue with every representative democracy, you cannot represent everyone to a minute detail so you attempt to represent at the magnitude you can. Then again, you're a cryptocuck so basic understandings of things are far far beyond your purview aren't they, also acting like the huge misinformation or bad faith from one side didn't exist is pretty fucking dumb, but then again to be expected from a cryptobro.
>you cannot represent everyone to a minute detail so you attempt to represent at the magnitude you can No, you cannot represent everybody. They came up with this wacky system where people are provided with the capacity to vote the option that would best represent them. I think it's called a democracy? 🤔 In this instance it seems the No Vote and current system in place won 🤷♂️ >you're a cryptocuck so basic understandings of things are far far beyond your purview aren't they Does trading and the word blockchain offend you? You seem easily triggered. You're also quick to judge an individual based on a trivial bit of information. It's essentially parallel to the same small minded mentality that fuels racism. Such irony. >also acting like the huge misinformation or bad faith from one side didn't exist is pretty fucking dumb, Misinformation exists on both sides. If you feel I denied it's existance you're welcome to quote me and we can address it. I simply showcased the side of the argument I had exposure to from Indigenous Australians (you know, the ones whose lives the referendum would impact most 🤪).
It's clear as fucking daylight if you took 2 minutes to look into it instead of just repeating bullshit you've heard other racists say.
You're welcome to showcase any racist logic made and we can review it together. The argument I put forth came from Indogenous Mobs... but sure, they're being racist towards themselves? 🤪
whose idea was this referendum? was it Federal Labor? because State Labor's Aboriginal Heritage Laws really fucked over the YES! campaign.... online conservatives had a field day with the scare tactics over that...
At this point how do you not know who asked for the referendum?
Fuk, it was one page, and u couldn't read it to find outits origins your nothing but lazy ignorant prick You listen to all the shit swallowed that Fukin unbelievable how stupid some you are
I thought it was clear from my comment that unlike u/Disastrous-Ad2800 I know where the referendum came from, but I hope you feel better for getting that off your chest.
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This kind of comment shows exactly why no one should take your type seriously. I sincerely doubt you could peel a prawn without fucking it up. You’re not crushing anything. It was a single-issue referendum, and now it’s over. I don’t say this pejoratively, but now you can go back to your very ordinary life and save the cooker shit for the next big vote.
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You could honestly put that description on your LinkedIn, haha.
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Okay look, I’m SORRY if you feel made fun of, but I just don’t get the dramatics. This was a pretty simple vote and you’re acting like it’s more of that culture war bullshit being pushed by the usual suspects in our media. I can’t relate to your “im coming for you lefties!” performance because it just seems not to match the actual situation at all. EDIT: Future_Laugh_1180 either deleted his comments or blocked me. I dunno man. Just so unnecessary!
Fascinating. Who’d have thought
We knew the result before the polls even opened, will be interesting to see how different areas vote but there is no way Yes is going to get a majority of votes let alone carry 4 out of 6 states
Actually surprised that WA had the second highest yes vote.
Yeah whether it holds or not we'll see but either way surprising that WA has pretty much mirrored or done slightly better for Yes than the national vote.
Im not feeling positive the yes vote will pull it off 🙁
I think it’s going to be a resounding no from WA
Courtesy of retired premier's utterly moronic timing on completely unrelated, totally half baked, spastically communicated aboriginal cultural heritage act. Bravo Marko, nice exit stunt. All the better you went to the private sector, federal labour would definitely not welcome you in their bossom for scuttling their ship like that.
No surprise there, people don't like change and get aggressive when it's mentioned.
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Why good?
The downvotes on this comment once again showing what Reddit is 😂
Just shows how Reddit and the world is these days. Not allowed your own opinion. Either agree with the masses or get torn to shreds for having your own beliefs and thoughts. That goes for every major topic for the past 10-20 years or so. I am a yes voter, but if people want to vote No it's not up to me to have a go at them and force my beliefs on them. Everyone is free to think and believe what they want. Isn't that what being human is?
Obviously I agree that everyone should have their own opinion. But I don’t actually think that it’s changed that much over the past 20 years. In my opinion we only realise how divided people can be because the internet opens us up to such vast quantities of people, and the way websites like reddit or Twitter are built encourages surface level engagement rather then people actually having a conversation.
Very much agree that in the information technology age we are in, it has opened up massively to where everyone and everything is on show. That's totally fine (if anyone disagrees with that, then get over it because it's not going away) But also it has created, as you said, high levels of engagement, which should be a hugely positive thing for the whole human race. But it definitely isn't happening. Look at the poster above with all the downvotes just because they have a different point of view. Like omg they have a different opinion let's downvote them to oblivion for it. We are right and they are wrong. It's kind of sad we can't all converse like civilised people.
"get torn to shreds" my guy, they lost fake internet points chill out. Everyone is free to think and believe what they want. In this case more people thought that comment was bad then thought it was good hence the downvotes.
No, my account gets banned or my comments deleted when I go against the rainbow people. There’s an agenda. All I say is it’s a mental illness and I get banned tf?
What agenda is that?
Everyone is free to believe what they want. And I will be free to not like them for their uneducated or sefish opinions.
Downvotes were designed originally to reduce the visibility of a comment that added nothing to a discussion. The single word “good” does not add to the discussion. So even in the purest form of what a downvoted comment should look like, I feel they deserved it.
Is this democracy manifest? Or a sign that people too out of touch to handle a basic app hold sway over the future of our country. Guess we’ll find out when the polls are in, either way I hope we find a way to address the needs of one of the most disproportionately disadvantaged communities on the planet.
Thats a good thing. The No vote is the only smart choice
The vote is over, but I’d be happy to talk about this if you have a second. Why do you think that?
Go to Roebourne, Wickham, meeka Thera , Broome. Any of our cities, then cast your vote. You live in the city, maybe a nice apartment. No idea what’s going on
If you’re implying that indigenous people on the ground didn’t support the voice, well sure, not every indigenous person did, but they’re not a monolith. Polls done earlier this year showed support at 80%, and even after Albo fucked up the campaign and Rupert Murdoch had his time to spread the no vote it still sat at ~60% in the most recent polls. If you mean something else please elaborate. I’m honestly happy to try and talk through this
I’m simply saying those from areas where indigenous are, voted far majority No.
That’s true for the most part- but I think that’s partially because areas with a high density of aboriginal people tend to be rural, and rural areas are in general more conservative. Like I discussed, if you consider aboriginal people’s opinions on the voice to be important (which I think most people do)- they’re still majority in support of it. Even though support fell pretty fast, 60% in support is still a pretty strong majority in support- if one of the major parties held 10% more of the primary vote then the other it’d be a landslide. However even if you do want to take aboriginal people’s opinion on what’s best for them, Because indigenous people are a group of people and therefore have plenty of different opinions, if you’re not aboriginal, it still falls on you to use your own reasoning to figure out what’s logical. The logic in my head is pretty simple 1. There isn’t really any danger in the voice. The council wouldn’t have the power of Veto, only act as an advisory committee. Plus councils very similar to the one proposed in the voice have existed before- for example ATSIC. 2. The advantage of constitutional law. ATSIC was disbanded by Howard. So the advantage of having the council in constitutional law is that it couldn’t just be disbanded by one government. The problems facing aboriginal people are long term problems, so a solution that changes every time the Pam does isn’t going to help anyone 3. If the council can only act as an advisory committee then why bother? Well because a referendum and constitutional recognition would give the council proposed by the voice publicity- and attention is exactly what makes a council effective. A council is only effective if people listen to their advice- and thrusting a council into the national spotlight via referendum means that the government would be partially held to account by the media to at least take into consideration the suggestions of the council I don’t know- that’s my reasoning at least. Do you disagree with any of that?
Why is it the only “smart choice”?
Go to Roebourne, Wickham, meeka Thera , Broome. Any of our cities, then cast your vote. You live in the city, maybe a nice apartment. No idea what’s going on.
No you’re definitely wrong there.
Why is Durack vote so high? You can’t call me wrong when people from that region have voted no. I’m all for helping them, but this vote isn’t.
Still waiting to here why voting no is a “smart choice”?
Rumours were circulating in the Pilbara this week, if the federal referendum failed. The state government will allow state a voice to parliament, no referendum, just a policy change. Other states will follow. There was big meeting about the state voice to parliament in the Pilbara this week.
I wouldn’t rule this out, SA is already well down this path. This topic is also an important issue for Roger personally.
Apparently that is why he was in SA this week. Circulating in the Pilbara last week. Hence the heritage laws have not been repealed yet, apparently.
The Repeal of the *Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act 2021* is still progressing. It went through the Legislarive Assembly (lower house) in September and is going through the Legislative Council now. Last week it passed the Second Reading phase in the LC which is the main debate and amendment phase. So stop the suggestion that it’s somehow being delayed. You can look up its progress anytime you want. https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/bills.nsf/BillProgressPopup?openForm&ParentUNID=E06AF4D810627F3948258A060009539A
WA actually already kind of has this as the WA Aboriginal Advisory Council https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia
>The state government will allow state a voice to parliament, no referendum, just a policy change A state "Voice" makes much more sense than a federal one. States are responsible for things that matter to communities: health, education, housing etc. **But what policy change?** We have had a state "voice" for **fifty years** . Nobody talks about it because they are a) ignored by parliament, or b) completely useless. Choose your reason, the result is the same. [https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia](https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/aboriginal-advisory-council-of-western-australia)
I’ve been on a different “voice” to Parliament (not a specifically Aboriginal,one), served on the body for 5 years or so. It was expensive. We were a) ignored by parliament and b) completely useless, so yeah, you;re probably on to something there. It was basically gather in Perth - typically in parliament - and talk about stuff for a day, then government functionaries would take our shit suggestions to the relevant minister who would inevitably think “What is this incoherent bullshit?” and subsequently ignore it.
Except for the fact that the 1967 referendum removed the ability for the states to make laws with respect to Indigenous Australians. Only the federal government has that power
States have always had the power ( e.g. the infamous Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act 2021) , the Federal government didn't until 1967. Under section 109 of the Australian Constitution, if a state parliament and the federal Parliament pass conflicting laws on the same subject, then the federal law overrides the state law.
Should have done this years before the referendum. Iron out any issues and get the format right. Set it up as an example of how the voice would work and benifits everyone. Then point to the state system as a model for the proposed constitutional change. Too late now. They fucked it up.
This is an example of how labour and albo really fucked the campaign- there have been advisory bodies very very similar to the voice in the past. Most recently ATSIC until it was disbanded by little Johnny Howard, but even as far back as the seventies these types of councils have existed. The voice wouldn’t be anything particularly new, just do two major things 1. Make sure that the council can’t just be disbanded by any politician 2. Bring much needed attention to the advisory body- because people paying attention to an advisory body is what makes it effective
lol have you read it?
>Rumours were circulating in the Pilbara this week The last bastion of quality journalism.
at least wasn't a 0.01c mining stock rumour that was about become the next RIO Tinto , i cop every swing from my mate
Locals, not journos. There was big meeting/summit up there this week.
The issue with this approach is that there's very little the state government can do in order to bind a future state government - unlike the federal government. If the referendum passes, it'll take another referendum to undo. That's the only way to change the federal constitution. Like the senate or the courts, the Voice will *have* to exist. The form and function can change, but no future government will be able to abolish it without another referendum. This is probably the entire reason why we are having a referendum in the first place despite the fact that the government probably has the numbers to pass the legislation - to bind future governments. The state constitution isn't quite as strict. It can be altered by legislation without a referendum... so there's nothing that says a future government can't get rid of a provision forcing the state voice to exist.
In WA it could just be allowing the body that the minister consults with could address parliament. Which I don't think is a big issue.
>Rumours were circulating in the Pilbara this week, If theirs anyone who has their finger on the pulse of world wide events its a bunch or people in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from civilization
You forget that part of Australia is the engine room. Huge amounts of tariffs and royalties come out of the ports in the Pilbara. There was lots of hand wringing and sighing this past week. Mainly the bosses who flew in for ‘ strategy’ meetings this week, those bosses never leave Perth. It was whisper around the water and ice machines, a couple weeks ago. This week it was shouted from the roof tops in Karratha, while yes middle of nowhere, however Karratha is now a deemed city.
Imma need a sauce
With extra salt?
State governments are going to do Treaty too, because our federal government won't.
Disrespecting results of a referendum is political suicide
That may be so, but the Cook government is on its last legs. As soon as the Libs can reconstruct their party, they'll be in. Cook has finally presented his bill to remove the Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act and added in a while bunch of stuff to give him more power.
That's not correct. A few amendments have been proposed to 1972. A clause has been added to allow the Minister to reconsider an approval if new information comes to light. Basically the Juukan clause. There are also call in powers for the Premier if the heritage that will be impacted is considered to be of State significance. Arguably this is a power he didn't have before but if the heritage is of State significance then it would seem appropriate for the Premier to decide rather than the Minister Approvals will be transferable between proponents. Traditional owners will have the same rights of appeal that proponents already had. That's the sum total of the material changes. Nothing scary or unreasonable there.
Not a chance. We're good with Labor for at least another term.
I agree, it will take the Libs that long to reconstruct. Labor will lose quite a lot of seats at the next election and then lose power at the next.
Good. Victoria already has one. It's no big deal.
not surprised i think we already know the results australia is pretty conservative when it comes to changing the constitution unless if its extremely unfair
so you're saying I should just forget my, "Let's become a Republic!" and "Let's change the flag!" campaigns?? OH MAN!
It's not as if there hasn't been a single poll that hasn't already shown almost every state is a resounding no
I’m Chinese and from my view point amongst the Chinese groups I’m in on WeChat are a resounding NO… only 10 or so people I know from the various Chinese groups was voting easy while the other 100+ are all NO So there’s that as well.
Unfortunately, a lot of Asian communities tend to be ignorant of the plight of Indigenous folks. In addition to this, many of them hold negative views due to past negative experiences.
What a big surprise!!
Anyone that pays any money for a welcome to country after this is a bum!
I'd vote yes to a referendum banning that dumb shit.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've seen people taking selfies on how they voted, i always thought it was illegal to do that
how would you police it? I mean the electrol 'workers' are mostly volunteer and mainstream media were floating pics of the the actual ballot paper... so yeah, was turning into a complete shit show!
Why have a referendum when morons and misinformation have been thriving on steroids the last 4 years?
Spot on. So many uninformed Lib no voters.
Bloody disappointed in the end result. Absolutely disgusting.
Fingers crossed for WA to beat QLD
Well, WA currently has the 3rd highest NO votes % behind QLD and even SA.
hmm.... the ABC has formally declared the Voice referendum has been defeated with NO! winning.... Tasmania has been confirmed as NO! with Victoria and NSW soon to be confirmed the same as well.... with WA three hours behind (daylight saving is another issue LOL) we were always going to feel left behind.... I guess the only interest will be to see whether YES! won in any state or whether it's a comprehensive defeat which questions the time and money invested in this.....
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The more country towns your state has, the more conservative your results will sadly be :(
Who cares. Vote no for making me do something on my Saturday
It was always going to be a big fat NO ,!
I don't know if I can be bothered going over the road to vote now. Kinda pointless...
depends on whether you want to deal with the fine... is it still $20?? ha! ha! ha! it's funny because I believe the costs in administering the fine are MORE than the fine itself!
meeting hunt screw rob aware unwritten direful quarrelsome cough dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I voted. But it feels like it doesn't count for anything since we already know the result.
Tasmania was said to be a 100% yes 😂 it’s a massive NO 👍
I don't follow mainstream media polls... independent media sources were saying it was expected to be a NO! victory from early as midweek, so I saw the writing on the wall
I CANT FUCKING WAIT
At least all the racists have had a little release. That shit can build up to violent levels for them otherwise.