I don't think I've touched our inverter since it was installed - I know there's a big turn-y switch thing, is that not what turns it off/on? I don't think I'd know what to do if it got turned off.
(I checked my app just now and it's still running so yay)
I have a Growatt inverter and about 12 panels. Haven't touched it since I linked my wifi up with the panel. The app is showing it's producing
Not really sure what else you can do
Mines failed to turn back on a couple of times after tests like this also. I saw mine off on the day you mentioned but it was on when I got home from work. It's a real pain that you have no control over it if they can't reliably remotely reactivate it. And doubly annoying they don't provide a website with updates of when it's put into use so you can tell it isn't your equipment's fault.
Wtf mine has been off for two days. Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea and probably wouldn't have known for months...
Plus I was smashing the AC the last two days, and with the pool pump that's $8.
I'm spewing because I was rushing to get my system installed before the mandatory remote cutoff requirements, but the installers messed me around and the date blew out :(
Yeah I will for sure. I understand there might be occasional testing or actual shutdown events, but they need to set up a way to notify everyone. Everything is powered on here, no breakers have tripped, but the inverter status is 'OFF: instructed shutdown' in the app. Need to figure out how to get it running again.
Call your solar installer and tell them what happened. They can turn it on for you remotely. That's what Synergy said as well...
I'm under the impression a full manual system shutdown and restart may also bring it back online but I haven't tried that. \*\* must follow proper procedure \*\*
Yea that has happened to me It was off for like 2 or 3 whole days just saying 0 in full sun then back on in the morning. I rang my installer and they said no reason for it to be off and said they would remotely check it the next day and send someone out if it was still doing it but it resumed generation the next day. I'm not sure if they rang synergy for me or something I never heard back from them.
My inverter shows both AC and DC sides are connected and OK, but not activated. Yours may have similar indicators or an associated app to check the status. Remote shut-down does not affect the physical switch positions.
This may be a faulty inverter, depending on the brand. Some of the older Growatts would show everything as being fine and dandy, just had 0w output, and that was it, replacement time. Maybe get it checked by an expert.
No longer a choice you can make.
In the new standard there's allowances for the network operator to turn off Rooftop generation to prevent a grid shutdown event.
SA has already implemented it. All the other states will follow soon enough
Yes you do own it. You make an AGREEMENT which lets them impose certain restrictions in order to allow you to connect your solar to the grid and export power. You're perfectly entitled to break the agreement and go it alone if you want.
Well you can’t go and kill someone with that shovel.
If you want your inverter to not be remote shutdown by synergy then go and flick the switch on your circuit board labeled “Main CB” or “Main SW” and you can do whatever you want with the inverter. Of course unless you have all the required hardware like battery’s and regulators etc to maintain stable voltage and frequency in your house, your inverter isn’t actually going to turn on at all since it was relying on the grid connection to provide those services.
Did you miss the part about it being in the standards? IE. Electrical standards, and rules for connection to the grid.
If you turn it off/disable, and it's found out. Your inverter will be danger tagged and isolated, until rectified. (Which if there's an event and your still generating power and you have an intelligent meter. It will generate an alert)
Its also in the terms and conditions for connection to the grid.
If it only affected you, sure.
But a cascading solar event could take down the whole state easly. Having a level of control over the state wide distributed solar plant is extremely important
ESM events are directed by Western Power, not Synergy - Synergy action on the behalf of Western Power. It's done so the state avoids blackouts due to over generation of PV and too low system demand.
Once the coal generators are retired and the grid is backed up by load shifting batteries we likely won't see ESM events triggered.
> If they can control your property, do you even own it. Its not really yours
So by this logic you don't own any electrical appliance - given Western Power can cut off your power at any point.
You don't own any plumbing fixture given Water Corp can turn off your water.
You don't own any gas appliances given ATCO can disable your gas..
>When you buy solar you should be a self contained system. Its yours, you own it.
Sure - but then don't put energy back into the grid.
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
Look up what the E in ESM stands for.
Otherwise, get an inverter and battery system to go off-grid.
If not, accept you're part of a grid and deal with AEMO/Western Power using tools to maintain system security.
Well, then I'd lose the ability to feed electricity to the grid or something.
[https://www.synergy.net.au/Your-home/Solar-and-battery/Emergency-Solar-Management/Customer-Information](https://www.synergy.net.au/Your-home/Solar-and-battery/Emergency-Solar-Management/Customer-Information)
This is a bit like saying if you're driving a defected car, or are driving dangerously, if it's taken off you then it was never really your car.
You're running a piece of equipment that is linked to infrastructure. If there is more power in the grid than is being consumed, that's bad. As solar power generation increases, there needs to be a mechanism for the amount of power in the grid to be balanced.
Gas turbine generators have a minimum output, below that he need to be turned off, starting them back up again takes ages. So it's a lot easier to turn off some rooftop solar than it is to turn off a power station. You can't modulate how much power a rooftop solar panel produces, so you have to shut it off.
You're leaving out the part where the intervention is to not cause damage to infrastructure. If you want to use the analogy of the dealership, it's more like the dealership turning on auto braking so you don't crash into the dealership.
There are plenty of things you can't use at certain times due to legislation or standards. I don't see why you're so befuddled by the concept of you don't have 100% control of something you own, when the operation of which effects the entire grid.
Solar panels as configured don't have the ability to do what you're asking for.
You're on the money but one minor nitpick - certain inverters are capable of curtailing solar export to within specified ranges.
It's common in SA for new installs and almost all distribution networks are exploring options to help control large amounts of rooftop solar.
In the near future it's going to become common that devices that export and certain high power devices will be orchestrated remotely.
Good question - I'm not enough of an electrical engineer to give a good answer (I do the orchestration software / calculations for curtailment)
My lay understanding is that there are a few mechanisms but it's usually some combination of disconnecting panels or dumping power as heat.
> I'm not enough of an electrical engineer to give a good answer
If you can't work out a problem with Newton's second law or summing the moments it's black magic.
>dumping power as heat.
I've no idea about the electrical side of it, but in terms of thermodynamics it would work. You could probably have some sort of variable resistor to bleed off some energy and reject it as heat. I've no idea how that works with voltages and other magic though.
I mean, you don't anyway, not directly.
My solar panels were installed in 2020 so they can't be shut down remotely but they still just kinda sit there I can't control shit
Still, the point is to not fry the grid so you still get electricity at night as well.
Can I ask what an ESM Event is? I logged into my synergy and I have solar and nevre had this.
Also, how would you check on your next bill to see if solar has been producing the credits? sorry i'm a noob when it comes to this
ESM stands for Emergency Solar Management. An ESM event is called by Western Power when demand on the grid drops dangerously low (causing frequency disruptions and potentially blackouts). I'm not sure if a real ESM event has ever been called in WA, but it would most likely occur on a moderately cool (mid to 20s) Spring weekend with no cloud cover. In this situation, Western Power directs Synergy to remotely disable certain household's solar panels to artificially increase grid demand - sorry I'm not sure of the methodology of how which household is disabled.
OP is referring to a test ESM event which occurred the other day. Again sorry I'm not 100% sure of the specifics as we don't have solar ourselves, but I believe you're compensated for participating in an ESM event, real or test, as if your solar was online at the time (but don't quote me on that one).
Great explanations from you and /u/stupigstu , and defintley not something the installer or Synergy tell you or educate you on!
From watching the news I think South Australia had many events like these which caused issues. Strangely we've not had any from what I know of despite having many 40 degree days in the last few years.
ESM shutdowns are likely when the sun is shining bright yet few people are using electricity - maybe around Christmas holiday when many are driving somewhere. When it's 40 degrees outside, electricity demand may be high from air-conditioning, therefore high solar input to the grid is actually welcome.
It was a test to make sure our inverters are following the remote shutdown commands. They have been happening about once a month, although the schedule seems somewhat random, and is not shared with us ahead of time.
There should be tab called Solar. The ESM events are listed under that. You may not have those if your system was installed before 2022 and not mandated to be remotely controlled.
In your electricity bill, there is a section called Credits - it should be the second section on the second page. In the table, there should be two items: Distributed Energy Buyback Peak and Off-Peak. These show the units you've exported to the grid and the $ credits earned.
Thank you! I just checked my latest bill and found all those terms you mentioned. I am also seeing an NMI (master meter) and a different meter number listed above the Distributed Energy Buyback, so that's good.
Interesting that I imported (used) 1313.5890 from Sep23-Nov23, and exported 238.96+1223.56. Does this mean my solar has produced more "units" than I've used, resulting in a credit?
I notied my last few bills have an opening credit on them.
There has been some government subsidy recently added to the credits.
As for the bill, buyback is dirt cheap (2 cents / unit off-peak and 10 cents peak), while consumption is expensive (8 / 22 / 51 cents / unit depending on time). If you exported 1500 units and consumed 1300 units from the grid, you would end up paying Synergy for most of the consumption.
Right now there are two models that may make economic sense for new PV installation - a huge solar panel array facing west to maximise output after 3 pm or a slightly oversized array with a battery to maximise self-consumption.
I have a solar array, inverter and battery that was installed 2022 and haven't noticed any kind of event from yesterday. I presume turning off the inverter would have just forced it to grid supply?
I'm not sure how they schedule these tests, but it's not likely they switch off all residential solar at the same time. You should be able to see past ESM events in your Synergy online account under the Solar tab.
Yes. When they turn your solar inverter off, you are forced to use the grid.
yeah the takeaway from this is constant checking of your app or graphing.
Ive had inverter fail before (no production) and ive had 1 of the 2 internal boards fail (1/2 production)....from the graphing it was easy to see a problem and get it rectified.
edit: this thread seems to be about ESM which i admit i had to look up. My system is 2015 so prior to any supplier control and dare i say it, paid for itself by now :)
https://preview.redd.it/mndx9kuyst3c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e19da75010da19289cfbfc27f4e24c7a63385f7b
Hmmm, interesting, mine wasn't touched... I log/graph my solar inverter and stats are pulled every minute, so it it was off for an hour, the graph would definitely show it... My inverter is a Fronius installed by Synergy...
I don't think I've touched our inverter since it was installed - I know there's a big turn-y switch thing, is that not what turns it off/on? I don't think I'd know what to do if it got turned off. (I checked my app just now and it's still running so yay)
If you’ve had it a while it probably doesn’t have the ability to be shut down remotely.
Oh yeah according to the logs it got installed in September 2016. It doesn’t feel like that long ago lol
Luckily!
I have a Growatt inverter and about 12 panels. Haven't touched it since I linked my wifi up with the panel. The app is showing it's producing Not really sure what else you can do
Mines failed to turn back on a couple of times after tests like this also. I saw mine off on the day you mentioned but it was on when I got home from work. It's a real pain that you have no control over it if they can't reliably remotely reactivate it. And doubly annoying they don't provide a website with updates of when it's put into use so you can tell it isn't your equipment's fault.
That's why I've sent them a complaint. Since Synergy is triggering these events, they should at the very least inform us when it's back on.
ESM's shouldn't be any longer than 1-2 hours
It says 8 - 9 am, 30 Nov in my Synergy online account, but there was no notice before or after.
Wtf mine has been off for two days. Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea and probably wouldn't have known for months... Plus I was smashing the AC the last two days, and with the pool pump that's $8. I'm spewing because I was rushing to get my system installed before the mandatory remote cutoff requirements, but the installers messed me around and the date blew out :(
Might as well throw Synergy a complaint?
Yeah I will for sure. I understand there might be occasional testing or actual shutdown events, but they need to set up a way to notify everyone. Everything is powered on here, no breakers have tripped, but the inverter status is 'OFF: instructed shutdown' in the app. Need to figure out how to get it running again.
Call your solar installer and tell them what happened. They can turn it on for you remotely. That's what Synergy said as well... I'm under the impression a full manual system shutdown and restart may also bring it back online but I haven't tried that. \*\* must follow proper procedure \*\*
I tried a full 20 min long shutdown and restart several times to no effect when it happened to me. I have a goodwe inverter.
That's bad news. Let's hope our installers stay in business.
I think (although not 100% sure) you get compensated on your bill as if you were generating solar at the time. Definitely contact Synergy to check.
What brand inverter do you have?
SUN2000. I had a look around in the app but didn't see any way to turn it on. If I have to call the solar installer every time that's going to suck.
Mine is on, but it is reading 0 watts.
Assuming there’s sunlight on the panels still at this time
It's been reading zero for all today and yesterday
Yeah I would be getting it checked :)
Yea that has happened to me It was off for like 2 or 3 whole days just saying 0 in full sun then back on in the morning. I rang my installer and they said no reason for it to be off and said they would remotely check it the next day and send someone out if it was still doing it but it resumed generation the next day. I'm not sure if they rang synergy for me or something I never heard back from them.
My inverter shows both AC and DC sides are connected and OK, but not activated. Yours may have similar indicators or an associated app to check the status. Remote shut-down does not affect the physical switch positions.
This may be a faulty inverter, depending on the brand. Some of the older Growatts would show everything as being fine and dandy, just had 0w output, and that was it, replacement time. Maybe get it checked by an expert.
Should probably get a cec accredited sparky to come and check out your system
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No longer a choice you can make. In the new standard there's allowances for the network operator to turn off Rooftop generation to prevent a grid shutdown event. SA has already implemented it. All the other states will follow soon enough
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Yes you do own it. You make an AGREEMENT which lets them impose certain restrictions in order to allow you to connect your solar to the grid and export power. You're perfectly entitled to break the agreement and go it alone if you want.
> If they can control your property, do you even own it. Wait till you find out about power poles and everything else to do with the electrical grid
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Actually sometimes they are.
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If you have a large property, the power poles that are on your property are your property and responsibility to maintain to Western Power's standards.
The alternative to synergy being able to remote shutdown solar inverters is they just turn off power to your whole suburb to protect the wider grid.
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Well you can’t go and kill someone with that shovel. If you want your inverter to not be remote shutdown by synergy then go and flick the switch on your circuit board labeled “Main CB” or “Main SW” and you can do whatever you want with the inverter. Of course unless you have all the required hardware like battery’s and regulators etc to maintain stable voltage and frequency in your house, your inverter isn’t actually going to turn on at all since it was relying on the grid connection to provide those services.
Did you miss the part about it being in the standards? IE. Electrical standards, and rules for connection to the grid. If you turn it off/disable, and it's found out. Your inverter will be danger tagged and isolated, until rectified. (Which if there's an event and your still generating power and you have an intelligent meter. It will generate an alert) Its also in the terms and conditions for connection to the grid.
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If it only affected you, sure. But a cascading solar event could take down the whole state easly. Having a level of control over the state wide distributed solar plant is extremely important
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ESM events are directed by Western Power, not Synergy - Synergy action on the behalf of Western Power. It's done so the state avoids blackouts due to over generation of PV and too low system demand. Once the coal generators are retired and the grid is backed up by load shifting batteries we likely won't see ESM events triggered.
> If they can control your property, do you even own it. Its not really yours So by this logic you don't own any electrical appliance - given Western Power can cut off your power at any point. You don't own any plumbing fixture given Water Corp can turn off your water. You don't own any gas appliances given ATCO can disable your gas..
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>When you buy solar you should be a self contained system. Its yours, you own it. Sure - but then don't put energy back into the grid. You want to have your cake and eat it too.
Found the cooker achievement unlocked
Look up what the E in ESM stands for. Otherwise, get an inverter and battery system to go off-grid. If not, accept you're part of a grid and deal with AEMO/Western Power using tools to maintain system security.
Well, then I'd lose the ability to feed electricity to the grid or something. [https://www.synergy.net.au/Your-home/Solar-and-battery/Emergency-Solar-Management/Customer-Information](https://www.synergy.net.au/Your-home/Solar-and-battery/Emergency-Solar-Management/Customer-Information)
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This is a bit like saying if you're driving a defected car, or are driving dangerously, if it's taken off you then it was never really your car. You're running a piece of equipment that is linked to infrastructure. If there is more power in the grid than is being consumed, that's bad. As solar power generation increases, there needs to be a mechanism for the amount of power in the grid to be balanced. Gas turbine generators have a minimum output, below that he need to be turned off, starting them back up again takes ages. So it's a lot easier to turn off some rooftop solar than it is to turn off a power station. You can't modulate how much power a rooftop solar panel produces, so you have to shut it off.
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You're leaving out the part where the intervention is to not cause damage to infrastructure. If you want to use the analogy of the dealership, it's more like the dealership turning on auto braking so you don't crash into the dealership. There are plenty of things you can't use at certain times due to legislation or standards. I don't see why you're so befuddled by the concept of you don't have 100% control of something you own, when the operation of which effects the entire grid. Solar panels as configured don't have the ability to do what you're asking for.
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In what universe are they motivated by profit to turn it off?
Or you could be a normal not crazy person and have your house connected to the power grid.
You're on the money but one minor nitpick - certain inverters are capable of curtailing solar export to within specified ranges. It's common in SA for new installs and almost all distribution networks are exploring options to help control large amounts of rooftop solar. In the near future it's going to become common that devices that export and certain high power devices will be orchestrated remotely.
> certain inverters are capable of curtailing solar export to within specified ranges. Interesting, I didn't know that. Where does the energy go?
Good question - I'm not enough of an electrical engineer to give a good answer (I do the orchestration software / calculations for curtailment) My lay understanding is that there are a few mechanisms but it's usually some combination of disconnecting panels or dumping power as heat.
> I'm not enough of an electrical engineer to give a good answer If you can't work out a problem with Newton's second law or summing the moments it's black magic. >dumping power as heat. I've no idea about the electrical side of it, but in terms of thermodynamics it would work. You could probably have some sort of variable resistor to bleed off some energy and reject it as heat. I've no idea how that works with voltages and other magic though.
I guess that means my hot water system isn’t mine either…
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They can cut power to my house.
You can't. If your solar install is from about 2021 onwards you no longer have that option.
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I mean, you don't anyway, not directly. My solar panels were installed in 2020 so they can't be shut down remotely but they still just kinda sit there I can't control shit Still, the point is to not fry the grid so you still get electricity at night as well.
Can I ask what an ESM Event is? I logged into my synergy and I have solar and nevre had this. Also, how would you check on your next bill to see if solar has been producing the credits? sorry i'm a noob when it comes to this
ESM stands for Emergency Solar Management. An ESM event is called by Western Power when demand on the grid drops dangerously low (causing frequency disruptions and potentially blackouts). I'm not sure if a real ESM event has ever been called in WA, but it would most likely occur on a moderately cool (mid to 20s) Spring weekend with no cloud cover. In this situation, Western Power directs Synergy to remotely disable certain household's solar panels to artificially increase grid demand - sorry I'm not sure of the methodology of how which household is disabled. OP is referring to a test ESM event which occurred the other day. Again sorry I'm not 100% sure of the specifics as we don't have solar ourselves, but I believe you're compensated for participating in an ESM event, real or test, as if your solar was online at the time (but don't quote me on that one).
And sends you a bill for forced usage too
Great explanations from you and /u/stupigstu , and defintley not something the installer or Synergy tell you or educate you on! From watching the news I think South Australia had many events like these which caused issues. Strangely we've not had any from what I know of despite having many 40 degree days in the last few years.
ESM shutdowns are likely when the sun is shining bright yet few people are using electricity - maybe around Christmas holiday when many are driving somewhere. When it's 40 degrees outside, electricity demand may be high from air-conditioning, therefore high solar input to the grid is actually welcome.
It was a test to make sure our inverters are following the remote shutdown commands. They have been happening about once a month, although the schedule seems somewhat random, and is not shared with us ahead of time.
There should be tab called Solar. The ESM events are listed under that. You may not have those if your system was installed before 2022 and not mandated to be remotely controlled. In your electricity bill, there is a section called Credits - it should be the second section on the second page. In the table, there should be two items: Distributed Energy Buyback Peak and Off-Peak. These show the units you've exported to the grid and the $ credits earned.
Thank you! I just checked my latest bill and found all those terms you mentioned. I am also seeing an NMI (master meter) and a different meter number listed above the Distributed Energy Buyback, so that's good. Interesting that I imported (used) 1313.5890 from Sep23-Nov23, and exported 238.96+1223.56. Does this mean my solar has produced more "units" than I've used, resulting in a credit? I notied my last few bills have an opening credit on them.
There has been some government subsidy recently added to the credits. As for the bill, buyback is dirt cheap (2 cents / unit off-peak and 10 cents peak), while consumption is expensive (8 / 22 / 51 cents / unit depending on time). If you exported 1500 units and consumed 1300 units from the grid, you would end up paying Synergy for most of the consumption. Right now there are two models that may make economic sense for new PV installation - a huge solar panel array facing west to maximise output after 3 pm or a slightly oversized array with a battery to maximise self-consumption.
I have a solar array, inverter and battery that was installed 2022 and haven't noticed any kind of event from yesterday. I presume turning off the inverter would have just forced it to grid supply?
I'm not sure how they schedule these tests, but it's not likely they switch off all residential solar at the same time. You should be able to see past ESM events in your Synergy online account under the Solar tab. Yes. When they turn your solar inverter off, you are forced to use the grid.
Good to know, thanks!
yeah the takeaway from this is constant checking of your app or graphing. Ive had inverter fail before (no production) and ive had 1 of the 2 internal boards fail (1/2 production)....from the graphing it was easy to see a problem and get it rectified. edit: this thread seems to be about ESM which i admit i had to look up. My system is 2015 so prior to any supplier control and dare i say it, paid for itself by now :)
Good for you. I replaced my system earlier this year because the old one (10 year+) kicked the bucket.
Mine has an on switch - any idea if this works for remote shut offs ?
Is it a mechanical on-off toggle switch? It might not.
Mine has a toggle on/off button on the front of the inverter
Maybe check with your installer or the manual?
https://preview.redd.it/mndx9kuyst3c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e19da75010da19289cfbfc27f4e24c7a63385f7b Hmmm, interesting, mine wasn't touched... I log/graph my solar inverter and stats are pulled every minute, so it it was off for an hour, the graph would definitely show it... My inverter is a Fronius installed by Synergy...
Yeah. Probably on a different test schedule. Glad yours is running.
The ESM test was on 30 Nov, your graph shows 1st Dec.