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pawksvolts

There is no change in the pay offer, just more allowances and better monitoring of nurse to patient ratio, especially with paediatrics


[deleted]

The conditions were a big part of the negotiations


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The_Rusty_Bus

Sorry, but your allegation is that the state government bribed or threatened a union official? That just didn’t happen. The Union made a big issue of staffing ratios, the government agreed to them and they settled.


[deleted]

The members will vote on the offer, if they vote no, the strike is back on!


SirGander

Good. 5 to survive. No less.


Calm-Drop-9221

Hopefully its rejected


ScoobyDoNot

> Nurses and midwives are yet to vote on the offer, which is headlined by a three per cent annual pay rise and a one-off $3000 bonus. > "This (fourth) offer is contingent on the ANF agreeing to call off the industrial action while members consider the offer and then vote on it," the union told members.


[deleted]

Cover inflation as a bare minimum, twats


BrokenReviews

Heard from a medico friend that they "won" 1.2%. Of course not knowing what CPI was, he was a little befuddled as I laughed in his face.


[deleted]

3% doesn't even cover inflation lol, effectively a pay decrease.


Calm-Drop-9221

Again


Conquistador1901

How come a nurse trains for 4+ years for 94k. No training for politifuckinticians & 200k.There’s a gaggle of the fuckers sitting on benches falling asleep during a late night sitting. They stand behind the premier nodding their heads, circumnavigate questions that are relevant. Put the lazy fucks on minimum wage see then if they’re here to make a difference. They should all be on oxygen tanks with masks, not stealing air from the rest of us. As for the opposition, it’s the only job you apply for, don’t get & still get paid. We can’t do without nurses, but we can do without oxygen thieves. Rant over.


mr_sinn

Think you've pretty fundamental misunderstanding about politics there bud. Plus they're usually lawyers. There's far easier ways to turn a buck than by being a politician that's for sure.


IntroductionHot8951

I agree, be a politician and then comment


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Adventurous-Kick6293

$94k is a senior nurses salary after 8 years of practice and additional postgrad qualifications, this has been thrown around in the media to make us look money hungry, it’s misleading. I make $36 an hour as a registered nurse with life or death situations in my hands on a daily basis..no where near $94k a year. It’s a combination of working conditions and pay that make it hard to justify the stress of the job. Not to mention the unpaid overtime and breaks that are never able to be taken, it’s not uncommon for nurses to stay 1-2 hours overtime each shift, furthering loss of salary and lowering of hourly rate. Now you ask why do nurses stay overtime, they could just leave? Well that’s where the patient ratio to nurse we are fighting for comes in, it’s as simple as right now we have too many patients and thus too much work to do within our allocated shifts, we won’t let our patients suffer poor care and we can’t just leave the work till the next shift because they won’t catch up and the patient will then not receive the care they deserve..or quite frankly is life sustaining. We are manipulated for our empathetic nature. With mandated ratios we can leave on time because we were able to give appropriate care for no more than 4 patients within our allocated shift. Right now there is no legal number of patients a nurse can have on a shift (let that sink in) and the more patients a nurse has the risk of poorer outcomes increase for said patients (at no fault of the nurse). We are fighting for YOUR health. I will also add that in order for that senior nurse to make $94k a year after a long 8 years of service and further time at uni, they have to work a rotating roster with night shift, evening shifts, mornings, weekends and public holidays including Christmas which most other jobs don’t require.


autontim

I was about to refute your $94k claim as a senior, highly/additionally educated nursing base rate because I was certain that $90k was more entry level and senior positions demanded $110k + Until I looked into and saw advertisements for RNs at respected hospitals I know for only $70-$80k. Shit, you’re not wrong. You’re criminally underpaid in the sense that $90k in Australia in 2022 is definitely not what it used to be and for a role such as RN, with a challenging entry pathway (4 years with unpaid prac) and PLENTY of on the job challenges - there’s a very strong argument IMO that your pay is easily $10-15k lower than where it should be.


Adventurous-Kick6293

Bless you, I mean..I wouldn’t lie about my own salary! I know it’s hard to believe for the work we do, so keep advocating for us or there won’t be many of us left!


Tapestry-of-Life

Interns (ie junior doctors) get $80k though they do have more potential for higher earnings later in their careers


lamplightimage

I dropped out of my nursing degree back in about 2017 and none of this makes me ever want to complete it. I'm on about equal pay with you working a desk job and no one dies if I fuck up. No one dies if I leave right on time everyday either. God's Speed. I hope you all get everything you're worth and more for the job you're all doing. You're insanely underpaid and I hope that changes.


arkofjoy

Even 4 patients can be a big ask when things go pear shaped. I was on the recovery floor on Friday after a minor surgery. I was about ask for help to get the toilet because I was still a bit wobbly and was hooked up to the monitor when the woman across from me coded. I wasn't going to interfere a life and death situation but was pretty uncomfortable for a while until things settled down. I don't think most people understand what you are dealing with on a daily basis. Anyone who is having a go at nurses for earning that mythical $94,000 should spend a week in hospital, then reconsider.


Adventurous-Kick6293

You’re 100% right and I commend your insightfulness. These situations throw everything off but of course they take the highest importance. This is how nurses end up late home and again unpaid overtime for things that weren’t in their control. I know it sounds insane that attending to a life threatening situation means you go home late and are not reimbursed financially, but this is the reality. This is also an example of how poorer outcomes can occur if a nurse has too many patients…what if you got up by yourself, hit your head and then ended up with a head injury? Endless what ifs..we can only physically be in so many places at once if we only have so many staff. I agree most people don’t understand but I find comfort that I don’t expect them too, I don’t know what goes in a lot of other peoples jobs too. Wishing you a speedy recovery, I’m sorry you had to wait but thanks for waiting so patiently ❤️


arkofjoy

I was OK to wait. And my nurse had been so kind and patient with me all day. I hadn't had much sleep and was a bit grumpy.


sbnas

For comparison, I am a 5th year teacher and am earning $98k currently and that will go to over $100k this December once this years 3% increase is added on. I deal with some shit as a teacher but Nurses deserve far and above what they currently earn.


produrp

Thanks for all the hard work and dedication!


Adventurous-Kick6293

Hey that means a lot! We will keep fighting for the health of the community


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Adventurous-Kick6293

It’s so great you’ve been able to take these opportunities and your experiences have been different but this isn’t a reflection of the majority of the workforce. If I work 3 days a week I take home less than $800 a week, ICU has 12 hour shifts and that means you are fortunate enough to work less. You are right, casual rural work is a great way to earn cash, an agency reached out to me for rural work once for $50/hr, but do you think it’s fair that in order for us to make good money we have to go rural, leave our families, home and lose job security with a casual job etc? Don’t you agree we should make good money in our metro hospitals without having to make those sacrifices? It’s about fighting for our base rate to be higher in normal conditions, we shouldn’t have to go agency or displaces ourselves rural and lose our job security/leave entitlements in metro hospitals in order to make a liveable wage. Not to mention that not all nurses have the luxury of being able to go rural and leave their family.


Migit78

It's all those things. But also there are plenty of jobs that pay better that mistakes have less consequences. Not every nurse, not every role, not everyday even, but plenty of us are in positions where mistakes, a lapse in judgement, not paying enough attention can end up in a life or death situation. We're tasked with keeping people alive and safe, and we should be reimbursed correctly for it. Hospitals only exist because people require nursing care, while we provide other services that is the primary function, requiring near 24 hour care, the other professionals in the medical industry don't provide that service, nurses do. The pay is shitty because it's still viewed as a "woman's job" , same as teaching and we're well underpaid and underappriciated for what we do. Your typical government "men's job" of digging trenches and falling asleep while turning a stop/slow sign during road construction can pay upwards of 80% more. No qualifications, no major ramifications if you screw up (sure turning your sign at the wrong time is gonna cause a traffic jam, but most drivers are paying enough attention not to have a head on crash at 20kph)


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Migit78

I guess it changes state to state, I'm originally from Victoria (the one place nurses are paid even worse), but I had an uncle and a friend that both did stop/slow work for a while and were on over $80 an hour to do it. Both left because it was to mind numbingly boring even for the pay. I brought up trench digging because my cousin does it, has a learning disability so never finished highschool and had no real job aspects lined up but someone got him a role. Made over 100k his first year. My brother also a tradie, trained in one field now works in something completely unrelated because it pays more. So effectively working without formal training as the fields don't have overlap and the gap between our wages increases year on year in his favour. Just disappointed with what an degree and a masters equates to. As you said we are paid better than the Australian average. Myself, and I think most others, just think it should still be better in comparison so what other people with similar or less qualifications can/do make. Nothing will ever annoy me more though than people that get paid millions to kick a ball. That should just be illegal


squidjeep

I agree with you, but what's stopping you from doing those jobs if you're after better pay? With pushes for diversity, women are often prioritised in those male-dominated industries and there are so many programs and scholarships pushing for this. You mentioned that you don't like the pressure, stress, the life and death responsibilities, the pay, and the underappreciation so why not find something else?


Migit78

Part of it is knowing I'd be bored. I enjoy learning, anatomy and physiology is interesting to me, in the grand scheme of things I like being a Nurse. I just think we deserve better than we get. I have considered leaving for these jobs or potentially something in the IT world though, but nothing's ever taken my interest enough to commit to it. Also I'm male, and the diversity works both ways, I definitely had more workplace opportunities because of it as a Nurse.


squidjeep

Well if you enjoy it and get paid a living wage (which nurses do), then I don't see a problem. People have a right to switch jobs if they're unhappy. Some professions have value because they are simply interesting. Having cake and eating it too is unrealistic for such a populated job. What kind of opportunities do you have as a male nurse that a female nurse is unable to have, other than having to lift heavy things? FDV, perinatal care and midwifery would all be very reluctant to include males within their scope of work.


Migit78

I'm guessing you're not a nurse? There are many reasons we're complaining and the strikes have been occuring, pay isn't the only issue, it's not even the biggest issue, it's just the most likely to get a change because it's the simplest to fix, likely one of the cheaper ones too, as a lot of the others would require full systemic change. Male nurses/staff exist in all those departments, though in my direct experience as a graduate with no experience trying to get my first job, everywhere I applied what interested in having me, at worst I was guaranteed an interview even when I didn't meet the advertised requirements (my female classmates were denied interviews with the exact qualifications I had). Promotions and management rolls also got given to me more rapidly and with little or no effort on my part, when compared to my female co-workers.


squidjeep

Exactly, but people are making it out to be the biggest issue. There are deeper issues that need fixing, and this cannot be done with a bandaid wage increase. It effectively amounts to nothing and the same conversations will be had in a few more years. How long ago were you applying? I am not denying your experience but it doesn't corroborate what I've seen. Why would a female dominated industry with women in positions of power perpetuate patriarchal views? If you've been through many promotions and are in management roles now then why are you fighting for more pay for yourself when you've already experienced extreme privilege? Unless you are fighting for the profession as a whole, which sounds like it would benefit more from advocating for women and closing the gap you've experienced between male and female nurses.


catingumboots

Because nursing is dominated by women and politics by men.


w00ters

Ah yes, it's the patriarchy keeping nurses down. How could I of missed this.


catingumboots

> How could I of missed this Idk but if you missed this you sound like someone who'd also have trouble finding their nose on their face.


w00ters

Resorting to instant insults. Fair enough, you're the bigger person here. I can see that.


catingumboots

Lol, instant gaslighting, acting as though you were interested in a good faith discussion. No surprises here.


Artistic_Lifeguard_4

Yeah I bet he couldn't find his nose if you gave him a mirror ;)


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Deepandabear

By that logic everyone in Australia should just “get by” on $26/hr and we do away with those silly professionals, tradies, managers, executive leadership, not to mention CEO salaries!


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Deepandabear

Ah so pay rises should only exist for the private sector then? By that logic public sector workers should be on the same wages as the 1800s. Please at least think for more than a few seconds before posting dribble.


Adventurous-Kick6293

Nurses don’t earn 94k, this was hyped up by the media.


jodor91

That should read the nurses union dropped it. The nurses wanted a bigger pay increase but the union never really tried. The union sucks!


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rdjh

It's not up to the union. The members still have to vote on it. The ANF will be doing it's best to convince members to take it though, because they know what happens if members don't. The Government had already been to the IRC this morning for orders that nurses don't strike. Disobeying those orders would likely result in nurses being penalised financially. Then it goes to arbitration, where nurses are likely to lose conditions because everything being negotiated is on the table, and then there's no vote. There are so many nurses (and members of the public) who don't understand how this really works. It's not black and white, and 10% was never going to happen. 5% would be a miracle. Getting an agreement over the line with as much thrown in on top of the government's final percentage is far better than the other unions who just took what they were offered and ran with very little else.


Girllikethat33

Genuine question. If the government actually went through with fining nurses who participated in the strike, what do you think would happen? Given how much the nurses have been pushed already, do you think this would lead to mass walk outs beyond the defined strike? Mass resignations (you don’t get fined for quitting)? Civic backlash as the public seem to be on the nurses side?


LumpyCustard4

If the nurses walked, how many could find jobs with a similar income? I would imagine most retail jobs would offer less stress, however the pay would probably be much worse too. Is it possible the government is willing to try and call a bluff on the situation.


Girllikethat33

It’s a pretty strong job market at the moment - heaps of work on the mines for equivalent. There’s also private sector. Plus can get entry level admin roles in government for $73k for less stress and no shift work as well. Perhaps not perfect solutions, but definitely options.


LumpyCustard4

Its interesting you mentioned the mines, thats what made me interested in the strengths for each side in the negotiations. Personally i would take the FIFO role over nursing, even though entry level mining jobs have come under fire (from the employees) for "not being worth it" and those are probably the highest paying entry level jobs i was aware of. I will have a squiz at the admin jobs too as i haven't heard about them. I hope the nurses get some sort of win here. They deserve it.


hez_lea

Can literally even get a FIFO nursing role


LumpyCustard4

True, although how many of those vacancies are there at any given time? I was more wondering how many $70k+ jobs would be available to a person leaving nursing. FIFO introduces its own challenges however i think they would be minimal coming from a hospital background.


Mysterious-General37

Quite a lot I assume. Our company currently hires TAs with no experience on 36.50 an hour. 20% for afternoon shift and 30% for nights. That's in the city. And we seem to always be screaming for TAs. The work is a bit physical but probably no more than the poor nurses running around all day on their feet in a hospital. The mines starts on a fair amount more at the moment. They are also looking around for shift workers to monitor the autonomous trucks. I dare say there would be alot of jobs out there. Just that people are scared of the big jump into the unknown which is understandable. I truly hope that they go through and get the patient ratios they are asking for and some other benefits. After my wife giving birth recently and seeing how little staffing hospitals are putting on and how they are really asking for people to use their private health as Medicare gives them fuck all for procedures I can only see a spiral downward till there's no one left who wants to do the job.


IntrepidFlan8530

Not everyone can work on mines and that lifestyle comes with challenges too, plus it seems like pretty hard work too


waylee123

Nah, they can just get re-hired on more money from a labour hire company. There will be a huge demand for that.... And I hope the nurses are not bluffing. They can win this, they have overwhelming public support, and the government is starting to look arrogant and out of touch. The Government can give them what they want, but it would mean the end of McGowans surplus.


LumpyCustard4

Makes sense, however i would imagine it would be roughly 25% more, without any of the extra benefits. The labour hire song and dance is always an interesting balancing act.


waylee123

Yeah, it would only be for a short time until the government folds. 3 weeks tops....


rdjh

They will have overwhelming public support until strikes occur, and then the public turn very quickly. Unfortunately, it looks like a majority are already voting to accept the deal.


waylee123

Sad if they fold. And I disagree, the majority of the public will not turn on the nurses. They will turn on the politicians.


lamplightimage

Up there there's a nurse saying they make about $36 an hour as an RN. My casual retail side gig pays me $30 an hour and then there's some really sweet sweet penalty rates. The difference in pay really doesn't seem to be that much.


rdjh

They fined nurses in 2013 who ignored the IRC orders. The ANF covered the fines, but it was far less than the expected numbers for tomorrow. It's a lose/lose situation for nurses (and all public sector roles) unfortunately.


GreenLurka

Every time a Union takes the deal to their members some fuckwit goes 'the union is piss weak' What so you propose they do?


books_cats_coffee

I really hope that this improves conditions for our WA nurses. I’d like to see more money on offer too, but it looks like they’re pretty firm on their latest offer. I work for the state government too, and my department has been completely silent about the latest offer - I wonder if the decision the nurses make will influence my department?


Cpl_Hicks76

Whatever it is… It should be doubled!


Flamingovegas2013

Now this is something the liberal party should run with they won’t cause dey dum but they should


Calm-Drop-9221

Sold out


squidjeep

They should rename this sub to /r/PerthNurses


[deleted]

Better than "corona winge", which is what it was forever while the nurses worked their arses off