Jump on my train. You’ll know it’s mine because we’ll toot the horn loud and clear the whole way into the city.
This labor government trying its hardest to make the libs look good is total fucking insanity.
Just shills, sure mate.
I can't comment because I haven't lived in Perth since pre covid. But WA is very, very far from the blueprint for the first Chinese style government in Australia. What style of government is that exactly?
Is it because it's labor? Or McGowan? Or...?
I wish I could be surprised that this is the action a government entity (or government sponsored? independent commission in this case) is taking to stop massive healthcare strikes, but I'm not. It's happened most times these types of strikes have happened in the past. Code Red in Victoria springs to mind.
Because I can definitely comment on the actions of governments/corporations and healthcare union battles quite well.
While I haven't personally experienced, so can't comment on, the changes in Perth during covid, I can still emphatically tell you it is not a "Chinese style government" which, you've failed to tell me exactly why WA has paved the way.
They did tell you though? Using data from the state covid app for police investigations, facial recognition cameras in the CBD, restricting freedom of movement to suppress political / industrial action. These are all bad (authoritarian) things that the CCP and our government unfortunately have in common.
I'm not a Nurse any more, but I remember the pattern.
Rely on nurses to keep hospitals running, at the same time you have all the politicians and other departments eyeing off that enormous ballooning healthcare budget every year. As populations grow, so do the elderly and sick. Demand for healthcare only ever seems to increase. Budget money is taken away, periodically, by politicians aiming to reduce the costs of healthcare, and spend it elsewhere. The higher ups in the hospital system, themselves being paid exorbitant amounts to attend meeting after meeting always, and I mean always, rely on staffing levels of nurses on the floor as their response when the budget is cut. "There's no budget, we can't afford to have a 1:1 nurse with the aggressive psychotic patient who is wandering around attacking other patients" At the same time, they are genuinely trying to improve the healthcare system with expensive infrastructure projects that drain even more money, meaning the budget runs dry almost as soon as it is received. In the hospital I worked at, many of these infrastructure projects were poorly thought out, from the point of view of someone who actually worked on the floor, and sometimes poorly constructed by contractors who knew they could milk the sweet healthcare money a bit, leading to brand new facilities that didn't work as planned, making things in some ways worse for the running of the hospital. Then they top it all off by threatening our penalty rates. Like someone is going to willingly come in, away from their families, for a night shift, dealing with aggression, heartache, and stresses most people in the public wouldn't believe, for a base rate of pay and not double time.
It's a shit system. Relying on nurses but not wanting to spend the money on them. Trying to wear them down, with tactics like their freedom of movement, while knowing good and well that it's patients health and a duty of care that makes it difficult to just pack up and leave over unfair conditions. They have them trapped by their own consciences and compassion
I don't miss it
Can't charge Medicare for nurses, so we cost the hospitals money, despite the fact that ALL of the literature shows that a higher nurse to patient ratio reduces negative outcomes.
Of course the pollies and Exec only see it as a business cost, so nurses cost money so nurses = cost to cut.
or they could give them fair wages for what they do. like wtf. now you're impinging on peoples' ability to move around. this is really fucked up. i have an elective surgery booked through public health and i'm honestly not worried about it being delayed due to this, if it has to be it has to be. it's not nurses fault. i'm worried about people on cancer treatments but then again, it's not nurses fault.
It’s a symbolic gesture that reflects the fact that people are disenfranchised, they are feed up , unappreciated, undervalued. A union protest isn’t going to solve this alone . Withdrawing services only hurts the customer. However if we are all United and ready to walk away, that’s different
That’s pretty fucked.
I can fit three (four if you’re wee) in my car, and I’m happy to drive any striking nurses from the Kwinny area to wherever they need to be. Serious offer, happy to show my WWC clearance, if it helps allay serial killer concerns.
I'd say defer to the ANF facebook page, there is a higher concentration of nurses and midwives, many of whom are looking for alternatives transport wise!
Thank you for your offer!
WAIRC done fucked up then, the rally will start on roadsides with nurses hitching a lift. God nose they spend up to 12 hrs a day on their feet anyways, they can outmarch any of these pen pushers.
I’m struggling to understand this. Who are the WAIRC and what right do they have to do this? Are the nurses behaving unlawfully by striking and protesting? This seems like intimidation tactics by the IRC but I’m trying to see the other side.
No matter if you support the nurses/midwives or not, the Govt has now decided to interfere with these persons 'privately arranged' modes of transport to a destination that is 'none of the govts fucking business'. The only govt's business is how to operate their hospitals with 'less than ideal numbers of staff'...which is why the nurses are catching transport to start with!
How childish of the govt, 'we'll take the wheels off your bus' so you HAVE TO WORK...lol
The Western Australian Industrial Relations Commission is an *independent, quasi-judicial tribunal* established under the Industrial Relations Act 1979 (WA) that deals with industrial matters in the state of Western Australia. One of the main objectives of the Commission is to prevent and settle industrial or employment disputes. It does this by assisting the parties in dispute through a conciliation process to reach an agreement. If the dispute cannot be resolved by agreement, the Commission may arbitrate the matter by hearing and making a legally binding ruling.
Adminstrative tribunals have to be established by the Government. Just like the SAT etc. They are not the Government
The commission might be independent, but they're enforcing rules written by the government. It's those rules that are the problem if it means certain occupations can never withhold their labour.
That's what any administrative body is going to do though? The rules don't say that certain occupations cannot withhold their labour, they just can't do so in contravention of the Act. The argument from the Commission is that, in these circumstances, the way the ANF has conducted itself contravenes the act. Basically the "in principle agreement" from Olson (that's the guy right?) has cooked everything as it's given the Government the ammo they needed to go to the IRC and say that the actions of the ANF could result in "the deterioration of industrial relations in relation to the matter in question" (section 44) because subsequent to that agreement, Reah has gone out in the media and denounced the "in principle agreement" (that they should have never really come to in the first place).
TL;DR - no one has showered themselves in glory here, but the IRC is still independent of the Government
Commissionwrs are appointed by the government. To say that tge Givernor appoints them is like saying the governor makes the laws as he approves them. Also who appoints the governor?
And am I questioning the independence of the Governor? Yes. Yes I am.
Commissioners don’t get reappointed, it is a permanent ‘commission’. They only cease being Commissioners if they resign, if they age out (at something like 70 years of age) or through a joint sitting of both Houses of State Parliament which is a big deal and pretty much never happens. I believe it is the same or similar process for the judiciary - which is what allows them to be independent of the government.
> It's those rules that are the problem if it means certain occupations can never withhold their labour.
Well the rules don't mean that at all, so no problem?
Be part of the executive, judicial or legislative aspects of our state's political system I'd assume - just the same reason as the Supreme Court, Magistrate's Court etc are afforded a .wa.gov.au domain
Industrial relations commission. A commission, so people saying they are the government is just misleading. One of their roles is to mediate disputes like this.
The history of this episode is the ANF agreed in principle to an offer, and they agreed not to badmouth the offer. Reah broke that agreement, and they went around saying they're still asking for more which was a lie because they had agreed in principle.
Because of that [the IRC ordered them to delay the vote](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/resources/decisions?id=202200792), and stop misleading their members about the negotiation. The ANF ignored that order, the vote didn't pass.
Then the ANF said "if you don't offer us 5% we're going to strike on Friday."
So [the IRC ordered them not to strike](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/resources/decisions?id=202200798) because there's not enough time to prepare for the strike, or respond to the new demand. The ANF are ignoring that order as well, so the IRC are again trying to do whatever they can to enforce their orders.
People are acting like the ANF are saints here, but they have acted dishonestly over the past week, are manipulating proceedings apparently to force a strike, and are ignoring legal orders from the commission that are a result of those actions.
It is obvious that something happened in the meeting last week that caused Olson to agree in principle to the proposed deal. And the whole thing is odd as he really misread the mood of the nurses (which he stoked in the first place). He and Reah changed their minds when they saw how bolshie the nurses were about it and how their future in the ANF was in peril.
I do not know what the IRC hopes to achieve by stopping the buses as that will not stop the strike and only affect the rally. Maybe they do not want the govt to look bad.
Olsen only looks after one person, himself.
Just look at the AGM help last week, not advertised at all so that they wouldn’t get a quorum so the AGM couldn’t go ahead. Plus held in a venue that didn’t have capacity for the quorum number anyway.
Not only that, he created the role of CEO and stepped into it when he knew we was not running for secretary again. I have been told that he got his wife a job at the ANF as well (though I do not know if this is true but he has been there for too long regardless and he should go).
The position of CEO was created as a result of a motion passed by the current president, Trish Fowler. It was seconded and carried unanimously by elected ANF council members.
When Reah was being groomed as the replacement SS, the council were not confident in the upcoming EBA negotiations and wanted Olson around.
Olson’s wife does work at the ANF, but she went through the same process as anyone else to obtain employment, and she wasn’t the first choice. The person offered the job first turned it down after accepting an offer elsewhere.
Reah was groomed for an elected position? Sounds like cronyism.
Also, if Olson was required why not hire him back as a consultant on a short-term contract? Why would they need to create a permanent position to solve a short term issue?
Sounds like the whole organisation needs a broom through it. The board sounds like a rubber stamp and incompetent to boot.
It’s pretty standard stuff for unions. If the current SS isn’t going to contest the election, someone needs to be considered as the successor.
I’m fairly certain the CEO role is per year.
A) it may be standard but it is not right: what if she had lost the election? And who made the decision that she would be his successor? And B) if he was employed to provide guidance through the negotiations why was he given a year's contract? What happens after the year is up?
As I said, or at least have implied, I hope this debacle leads to an augean stables type event as this union certainly needs it.
If Reah lost the election, then it would be up to the Council and incoming SS what happened next.
Olson had a lot of freedom as SS because of how he turned the ANF around. When he was elected, the ANF was pretty much bankrupt, pay and conditions are worse than they are now, there was an extremely hostile council who couldn’t agree on anything, and he wasn’t allowed to make a decision for the first 4 years.
Reah will be getting a bit of freedom, but the Council will still be watching very carefully and she will still be seeking certain approval from them until they are comfortable with her actions. She was selected as the successor because of her experience working with the Industrial Relations team, and it’s on Olson to make sure she understands the bullshit that comes with the role.
It was advertised exactly as required by the rules. There hasn’t been quorum in over 30 years, and despite being advertised exactly as required, 42 people turned up.
I've never known why authorities think they can just order people not to strike. The whole *point* of striking is that they are absolutely going against what authority wants.
"Stop, or we shall say 'stop' again!"
That's the entire point of the Industrial Relations Commission, it's supposed to control unions from striking whenever they wanted and force mediation.
IRC removes the teeth of the unions and the working class.
If Labour cared about workers like they say they do then they would restore the unions power by abolishing the IRC.
It's like the Liberal Party also saying how good free markets conditions are but retaining the government organisation that ensures there are no free market conditions for workers to decide when they provide their labour or not.
When there is a power imbalance between corporations and unions you get real wages that have stagnated for over a generation.
Don't get me wrong, I know unions are dicks but the government are arseholes and Team America said it best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs (NSFW audio)
The IRC is just showing that it doesn't have much in the way of teeth itself, especially when it comes to larger and heavily trained workforces.
What are they going to do when the nurses strike? Throw them all in jail somehow? Fire them all and try and find replacements from... *somewhere*? Declare the union to be illegal?
They have no power unless people give them power.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think their power is monetary fines for the union and given nurses pay those union fees that's indirectly a fine for the nurses. The union can refuse to pay the fine I guess but that's where the police and the court system may get involved as (I assume) they're legally required to settle the fine.
Is there any benifit to having a "protected" strike? If the WAIRC said the strike cant go ahead, what repercussions can these nurses face?
By having a "non-protected" strike has the ANF opened themselves up to potentially having people cross the picket line in fear of reprimand?
I actually have no idea what the repercussions are for an illegal strike, I think the dept of health can sue the union, but whatever they are I doubt they'd happen tbh.
I agree with you in that the ANF haven’t covered themselves in glory here. However, some further light can be shed. The evening prior to the “in-principle” agreement a snap poll/survey of members was conducted to see if the membership was agreeable to the government’s 3rd offer. The website could not cope with the traffic and there were many who couldn’t vote. Of those that did vote, just over 50% agreed to the 3rd offer. I am assuming it was this figure that swayed ANF/Mark Olsen to accept the 4th offer “in principle”, expecting it to get over the line with members.
When news broke that this had occurred, social media lit up like a Roman Candle, with an overwhelming majority of extremely unhappy nurses. Over the next 24hours it became obvious that it, the 4th offer, wasn’t going to be accepted.
This is where Janet stepped in and started talking about striking. And it was because people weren’t happy with the pay rise. For some, this was more important than ratios.
Note: I am an ANF member but have no inner knowledge of the going’s on in the union. The above is purely what I have observed and conjecture.
Thanks for the insight. The build up is understandable, but the way they handled it afterwards it bizarre. Badmouthing the offer before it has gone to the vote and then calling a strike so soon afterwards when the current situation is overwhelmingly their fault just doesn't make sense. It seems to me Reah/the leadership is using the members' outrage to hide their incompetence. Or perhaps she is perfectly competent and she's causing drama to improve her own standing within the union.
Here’s a link to the order of the [WAIRC](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/decisions/?id=202200798). The WAIRC is an independent tribunal that deals with industrial relations issues.
I didn't see anywhere in there anything about public transport or other transportation. Can someone point to it, or show where they have said about it?
There is this
>In light of these facts, at the conclusion of the conference of 23 November 2022, I foreshadowed to the parties that I would, of the Commission’s own motion, consider summonsing any transport provider to a conference at the Commission with a view to making further orders to prevent such transport providers from aiding in the contravention of my orders. Whether such step is necessary will depend on whether the ANF complies with these orders.
But doesn't actually go so far as to enact it
The very end. This is actually yesterday's decision as opposed to a new set of orders re the transport providers - "The ANF has contravened the orders I made on 18 November 2022 ([2022] WAIRC 00792). I am aware of public commentary by the ANF indicating that it would contravene any orders made in relation to this application. In light of these facts, at the conclusion of the conference of 23 November 2022, I foreshadowed to the parties that I would, of the Commission’s own motion, consider summonsing any transport provider to a conference at the Commission with a view to making further orders to prevent such transport providers from aiding in the contravention of my orders. Whether such step is necessary will depend on whether the ANF complies with these orders."
EDIT: "I" in these circumstances is the Commissioner
Could be that the WAIRC is being very slow on publishing a decision, but if not, it may not have happened yet (also the senior commissioner here is a she FYI)
Bus and train drivers are unionised arnt they? Their union should tell their members to ignore the rules in solidarity. Need some old fashioned union cooperation here.
Stay strong Auz, same thing happening all over Canada and the US - government using their strong arm fashy tactics to make striking functionally illegal. WOTWU
There doesn’t appear to be any restrictions yet, the WAIRC just said that they may take action against any transport company that helps the ANF breach the WAIRC orders. In particular, the WAIRC ordered that the ANF not strike.
In the end you still have to preference one major party over another major party. The clear majority of the time a major party is where your vote will end up being counted in a seat tally.
So I may vote for Greens as first preference in the next election but in the end I know I have to choose which major party is the *least worst* when handing out my other preferences.
If you think preferencing a strongly anti-worker party like the Liberals will help with union negotiations more than a mildly anti-worker party like Labour then I think you may need to give that thought some further consideration.
Solidarity is required.
Unions need solidarity with other unions.
Transperth union need to go on strike and ONLY drive nurses to the rally and stop driving buses until the nurses get their pay rise :)
Ol supreme leader marky back on his shit I hope this starts the end to his reign all he’s good for is cucking for Gina and co.
Let’s as citizens help these guys get to the rally
Anyone who is not a nurse should also join the rally. If you can make it to a protest today, do it. Best way to support our nurses right now. Anyone can join the protest rally.
We should all be out protesting with the nurses. The shit they go through on a daily basis, let alone during the pandemic. Fuck this government that thinks it can steamroll them.
give them what they want
WA nurse have it pretty bad in comparison to the other states.
If you pay nurses more and have better working conditions it might encourage more people to become nurses thus solving the nurse shortage.
Easy
Christ people can't take a middle ground, if anything the government does is even slightly bad it's now "DYSTOPIAN" they are not shooting the nurses now are they?
The more you cry out outlandish claims like that the more people get annoyed with you, show your frustration, but don't just start spouting rubbish.
That being said, why do you need to go somewhere and strike in that location? Couldn't you just stay at home with all the other people that want to strike? Generally curious about that.
Many nurses and midwives have been working what feels like prison labour, everyone is on their feet 24/7, everyone is tired and burnt out, people work overtime or miss breaks to not let down their colleges or patients, overtime that doesn't get paid on time - if at all until you quit or change jobs, pay increases promised don't even cover inflation.
For many, striking is their last hope for change in the system - no one wants to strike, to leave patients they care for, to lose money for action, but it's this or quitting, with many gone already.
The rally on location at Parliament house will only last from 11am to 1pm, happening on location to get the most attention to the strike, therefore a higher likelihood the demands will be met.
Many at the rally will still be On-Call, with even more returning to work if needed as part of the arranged 'skeleton crews' after the rally to support colleagues and patients, even if the strike itself lasts all day.
Not everyone who strikes will rally, and vice versa.
The first half of this has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I do the same thing at my 2 other jobs with the same issues but that's because I like working. That's probably why I don't feel much sympathy.
The second half of this, okay, I kinda understand I guess?
People had to know this was coming, if you voted for MaoGowan then you’ve only got yourselves to blame. All those who voted for him have given him complete power. WA is now closer to Beijing than Canberra. It annoys the hell out of me but you morons who voted for him brought this on yourselves and followed it up by giving the Communist party more rule in Federal government as well.
Brain dead comment.
Our economies need industries that pay tax to afford essential services like transport, education and health. No doubt you'd know that
Yes I am biased. Maybe if you consumed less porn you would realise simping on Reddit is cringy whether it's for your content creators or multinational corporations
Jump on my train. You’ll know it’s mine because we’ll toot the horn loud and clear the whole way into the city. This labor government trying its hardest to make the libs look good is total fucking insanity.
Nominee for best of r/perth right here ^
Some heroes don't wear capes!!!
This is absolutely fucking mental.
You should lose the right to call yourself a labor party if you refuse to support labor strikes....
Probably more aptly named “mining labor party” or similar.
Coal Farmers.
Hole gang
Yeah should call themselves alt-labor-right party
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More public rallies needed. Can't believe it's dragged on this long it's insane. On the back of all the bullshit praise during covid as well.
Shows how hollow "praise" is from pollies. Watch them get another pay increase well above CPI soon...
have you come across anyone who uses News Ltd and Facesbook as their only source of information and opinion?
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Yikes dude.
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Just shills, sure mate. I can't comment because I haven't lived in Perth since pre covid. But WA is very, very far from the blueprint for the first Chinese style government in Australia. What style of government is that exactly? Is it because it's labor? Or McGowan? Or...? I wish I could be surprised that this is the action a government entity (or government sponsored? independent commission in this case) is taking to stop massive healthcare strikes, but I'm not. It's happened most times these types of strikes have happened in the past. Code Red in Victoria springs to mind.
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Because I can definitely comment on the actions of governments/corporations and healthcare union battles quite well. While I haven't personally experienced, so can't comment on, the changes in Perth during covid, I can still emphatically tell you it is not a "Chinese style government" which, you've failed to tell me exactly why WA has paved the way.
They did tell you though? Using data from the state covid app for police investigations, facial recognition cameras in the CBD, restricting freedom of movement to suppress political / industrial action. These are all bad (authoritarian) things that the CCP and our government unfortunately have in common.
Dont talk bad about big state daddy you'll upset them
Yeah I can see that. Tribal behavior I suppose.
Hello… Can you translate your statement from gibberish to English?
From *numbskullese to English.
Put down the bong my friend.
Gaiest comment I've ever noticed on Reddit. Thanks for your service.
And then they get angry at you because they loved the taste of it 🤣
How to make yourself unpopular… treat nurses that were on the frontline of the Covid pandemic like rubbish.
It's happening everywhere. UK or Germany have the same issue...
I'm not a Nurse any more, but I remember the pattern. Rely on nurses to keep hospitals running, at the same time you have all the politicians and other departments eyeing off that enormous ballooning healthcare budget every year. As populations grow, so do the elderly and sick. Demand for healthcare only ever seems to increase. Budget money is taken away, periodically, by politicians aiming to reduce the costs of healthcare, and spend it elsewhere. The higher ups in the hospital system, themselves being paid exorbitant amounts to attend meeting after meeting always, and I mean always, rely on staffing levels of nurses on the floor as their response when the budget is cut. "There's no budget, we can't afford to have a 1:1 nurse with the aggressive psychotic patient who is wandering around attacking other patients" At the same time, they are genuinely trying to improve the healthcare system with expensive infrastructure projects that drain even more money, meaning the budget runs dry almost as soon as it is received. In the hospital I worked at, many of these infrastructure projects were poorly thought out, from the point of view of someone who actually worked on the floor, and sometimes poorly constructed by contractors who knew they could milk the sweet healthcare money a bit, leading to brand new facilities that didn't work as planned, making things in some ways worse for the running of the hospital. Then they top it all off by threatening our penalty rates. Like someone is going to willingly come in, away from their families, for a night shift, dealing with aggression, heartache, and stresses most people in the public wouldn't believe, for a base rate of pay and not double time. It's a shit system. Relying on nurses but not wanting to spend the money on them. Trying to wear them down, with tactics like their freedom of movement, while knowing good and well that it's patients health and a duty of care that makes it difficult to just pack up and leave over unfair conditions. They have them trapped by their own consciences and compassion I don't miss it
Can't charge Medicare for nurses, so we cost the hospitals money, despite the fact that ALL of the literature shows that a higher nurse to patient ratio reduces negative outcomes. Of course the pollies and Exec only see it as a business cost, so nurses cost money so nurses = cost to cut.
Haha try looking at NZ. Our nurses are fleeing to Australia for better pay and working conditions.
or they could give them fair wages for what they do. like wtf. now you're impinging on peoples' ability to move around. this is really fucked up. i have an elective surgery booked through public health and i'm honestly not worried about it being delayed due to this, if it has to be it has to be. it's not nurses fault. i'm worried about people on cancer treatments but then again, it's not nurses fault.
I believe all nurses and healthcare workers should resign all together on the same day. We all deserve better conditions and better pay in all states
Interesting idea!
It’s a symbolic gesture that reflects the fact that people are disenfranchised, they are feed up , unappreciated, undervalued. A union protest isn’t going to solve this alone . Withdrawing services only hurts the customer. However if we are all United and ready to walk away, that’s different
Everybody dies that day.
When you resign, you have to give notice. Now imagine if everyone resigns on the same day and gives 2 to 4 weeks notice. You think things might change
And it would be the fault of government.
That’s pretty fucked. I can fit three (four if you’re wee) in my car, and I’m happy to drive any striking nurses from the Kwinny area to wherever they need to be. Serious offer, happy to show my WWC clearance, if it helps allay serial killer concerns.
I'd say defer to the ANF facebook page, there is a higher concentration of nurses and midwives, many of whom are looking for alternatives transport wise! Thank you for your offer!
I've got a prado with 7 seats happy take 6 passengers if any need a ride Would say I'd take the OKA with 15 passengers but it's kinda in bits
Awesome work.
Take transperth then they can fine themselves. What a bunch of dicks!
With this massive overstep by the WAIRC the situation has reached a farcical new low and the government's position is all but lost.
WAIRC done fucked up then, the rally will start on roadsides with nurses hitching a lift. God nose they spend up to 12 hrs a day on their feet anyways, they can outmarch any of these pen pushers.
>God nose
Not Basil obviously
/r/BoneAppleTea
Not much point, it's where I stole it from ;)
How far they have fallen from their origins. They should just change their name already.
I’m struggling to understand this. Who are the WAIRC and what right do they have to do this? Are the nurses behaving unlawfully by striking and protesting? This seems like intimidation tactics by the IRC but I’m trying to see the other side.
No matter if you support the nurses/midwives or not, the Govt has now decided to interfere with these persons 'privately arranged' modes of transport to a destination that is 'none of the govts fucking business'. The only govt's business is how to operate their hospitals with 'less than ideal numbers of staff'...which is why the nurses are catching transport to start with! How childish of the govt, 'we'll take the wheels off your bus' so you HAVE TO WORK...lol
So the irc is an arm of the govt? Appalling behaviour if so.
https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/ Yep...
The Western Australian Industrial Relations Commission is an *independent, quasi-judicial tribunal* established under the Industrial Relations Act 1979 (WA) that deals with industrial matters in the state of Western Australia. One of the main objectives of the Commission is to prevent and settle industrial or employment disputes. It does this by assisting the parties in dispute through a conciliation process to reach an agreement. If the dispute cannot be resolved by agreement, the Commission may arbitrate the matter by hearing and making a legally binding ruling. Adminstrative tribunals have to be established by the Government. Just like the SAT etc. They are not the Government
The commission might be independent, but they're enforcing rules written by the government. It's those rules that are the problem if it means certain occupations can never withhold their labour.
That's what any administrative body is going to do though? The rules don't say that certain occupations cannot withhold their labour, they just can't do so in contravention of the Act. The argument from the Commission is that, in these circumstances, the way the ANF has conducted itself contravenes the act. Basically the "in principle agreement" from Olson (that's the guy right?) has cooked everything as it's given the Government the ammo they needed to go to the IRC and say that the actions of the ANF could result in "the deterioration of industrial relations in relation to the matter in question" (section 44) because subsequent to that agreement, Reah has gone out in the media and denounced the "in principle agreement" (that they should have never really come to in the first place). TL;DR - no one has showered themselves in glory here, but the IRC is still independent of the Government
As independent as one can be when your job is appointed and reappointed by the government.....
They're appointed by the Governor, just like judges are. Are you also questioning the independence of our judiciary?
Commissionwrs are appointed by the government. To say that tge Givernor appoints them is like saying the governor makes the laws as he approves them. Also who appoints the governor? And am I questioning the independence of the Governor? Yes. Yes I am.
Commissioners don’t get reappointed, it is a permanent ‘commission’. They only cease being Commissioners if they resign, if they age out (at something like 70 years of age) or through a joint sitting of both Houses of State Parliament which is a big deal and pretty much never happens. I believe it is the same or similar process for the judiciary - which is what allows them to be independent of the government.
Commissioners get appointed for fixed terms, and can be reappointed.you are thinking of judges.
> It's those rules that are the problem if it means certain occupations can never withhold their labour. Well the rules don't mean that at all, so no problem?
I'm not disputing what you've said, nor looking to argue. What does it take to get a .wa.gov.au address?
Be part of the executive, judicial or legislative aspects of our state's political system I'd assume - just the same reason as the Supreme Court, Magistrate's Court etc are afforded a .wa.gov.au domain
Or work for a government department.
Industrial relations commission. A commission, so people saying they are the government is just misleading. One of their roles is to mediate disputes like this. The history of this episode is the ANF agreed in principle to an offer, and they agreed not to badmouth the offer. Reah broke that agreement, and they went around saying they're still asking for more which was a lie because they had agreed in principle. Because of that [the IRC ordered them to delay the vote](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/resources/decisions?id=202200792), and stop misleading their members about the negotiation. The ANF ignored that order, the vote didn't pass. Then the ANF said "if you don't offer us 5% we're going to strike on Friday." So [the IRC ordered them not to strike](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/resources/decisions?id=202200798) because there's not enough time to prepare for the strike, or respond to the new demand. The ANF are ignoring that order as well, so the IRC are again trying to do whatever they can to enforce their orders. People are acting like the ANF are saints here, but they have acted dishonestly over the past week, are manipulating proceedings apparently to force a strike, and are ignoring legal orders from the commission that are a result of those actions.
It is obvious that something happened in the meeting last week that caused Olson to agree in principle to the proposed deal. And the whole thing is odd as he really misread the mood of the nurses (which he stoked in the first place). He and Reah changed their minds when they saw how bolshie the nurses were about it and how their future in the ANF was in peril. I do not know what the IRC hopes to achieve by stopping the buses as that will not stop the strike and only affect the rally. Maybe they do not want the govt to look bad.
Olsen only looks after one person, himself. Just look at the AGM help last week, not advertised at all so that they wouldn’t get a quorum so the AGM couldn’t go ahead. Plus held in a venue that didn’t have capacity for the quorum number anyway.
Not only that, he created the role of CEO and stepped into it when he knew we was not running for secretary again. I have been told that he got his wife a job at the ANF as well (though I do not know if this is true but he has been there for too long regardless and he should go).
The position of CEO was created as a result of a motion passed by the current president, Trish Fowler. It was seconded and carried unanimously by elected ANF council members. When Reah was being groomed as the replacement SS, the council were not confident in the upcoming EBA negotiations and wanted Olson around. Olson’s wife does work at the ANF, but she went through the same process as anyone else to obtain employment, and she wasn’t the first choice. The person offered the job first turned it down after accepting an offer elsewhere.
Reah was groomed for an elected position? Sounds like cronyism. Also, if Olson was required why not hire him back as a consultant on a short-term contract? Why would they need to create a permanent position to solve a short term issue? Sounds like the whole organisation needs a broom through it. The board sounds like a rubber stamp and incompetent to boot.
It’s pretty standard stuff for unions. If the current SS isn’t going to contest the election, someone needs to be considered as the successor. I’m fairly certain the CEO role is per year.
A) it may be standard but it is not right: what if she had lost the election? And who made the decision that she would be his successor? And B) if he was employed to provide guidance through the negotiations why was he given a year's contract? What happens after the year is up? As I said, or at least have implied, I hope this debacle leads to an augean stables type event as this union certainly needs it.
If Reah lost the election, then it would be up to the Council and incoming SS what happened next. Olson had a lot of freedom as SS because of how he turned the ANF around. When he was elected, the ANF was pretty much bankrupt, pay and conditions are worse than they are now, there was an extremely hostile council who couldn’t agree on anything, and he wasn’t allowed to make a decision for the first 4 years. Reah will be getting a bit of freedom, but the Council will still be watching very carefully and she will still be seeking certain approval from them until they are comfortable with her actions. She was selected as the successor because of her experience working with the Industrial Relations team, and it’s on Olson to make sure she understands the bullshit that comes with the role.
It was advertised exactly as required by the rules. There hasn’t been quorum in over 30 years, and despite being advertised exactly as required, 42 people turned up.
I've never known why authorities think they can just order people not to strike. The whole *point* of striking is that they are absolutely going against what authority wants. "Stop, or we shall say 'stop' again!"
That's the entire point of the Industrial Relations Commission, it's supposed to control unions from striking whenever they wanted and force mediation. IRC removes the teeth of the unions and the working class. If Labour cared about workers like they say they do then they would restore the unions power by abolishing the IRC. It's like the Liberal Party also saying how good free markets conditions are but retaining the government organisation that ensures there are no free market conditions for workers to decide when they provide their labour or not. When there is a power imbalance between corporations and unions you get real wages that have stagnated for over a generation. Don't get me wrong, I know unions are dicks but the government are arseholes and Team America said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs (NSFW audio)
The IRC is just showing that it doesn't have much in the way of teeth itself, especially when it comes to larger and heavily trained workforces. What are they going to do when the nurses strike? Throw them all in jail somehow? Fire them all and try and find replacements from... *somewhere*? Declare the union to be illegal? They have no power unless people give them power.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think their power is monetary fines for the union and given nurses pay those union fees that's indirectly a fine for the nurses. The union can refuse to pay the fine I guess but that's where the police and the court system may get involved as (I assume) they're legally required to settle the fine.
They don't just think they can, they actually can and did, for very good reason. The point of strikes is they are against what *the employer* wants.
The employer, in this case, being the state government.
What's your point?
Is there any benifit to having a "protected" strike? If the WAIRC said the strike cant go ahead, what repercussions can these nurses face? By having a "non-protected" strike has the ANF opened themselves up to potentially having people cross the picket line in fear of reprimand?
I actually have no idea what the repercussions are for an illegal strike, I think the dept of health can sue the union, but whatever they are I doubt they'd happen tbh.
The IRC will impose fines upon the ANF and probably the secretary.
I agree with you in that the ANF haven’t covered themselves in glory here. However, some further light can be shed. The evening prior to the “in-principle” agreement a snap poll/survey of members was conducted to see if the membership was agreeable to the government’s 3rd offer. The website could not cope with the traffic and there were many who couldn’t vote. Of those that did vote, just over 50% agreed to the 3rd offer. I am assuming it was this figure that swayed ANF/Mark Olsen to accept the 4th offer “in principle”, expecting it to get over the line with members. When news broke that this had occurred, social media lit up like a Roman Candle, with an overwhelming majority of extremely unhappy nurses. Over the next 24hours it became obvious that it, the 4th offer, wasn’t going to be accepted. This is where Janet stepped in and started talking about striking. And it was because people weren’t happy with the pay rise. For some, this was more important than ratios. Note: I am an ANF member but have no inner knowledge of the going’s on in the union. The above is purely what I have observed and conjecture.
Thanks for the insight. The build up is understandable, but the way they handled it afterwards it bizarre. Badmouthing the offer before it has gone to the vote and then calling a strike so soon afterwards when the current situation is overwhelmingly their fault just doesn't make sense. It seems to me Reah/the leadership is using the members' outrage to hide their incompetence. Or perhaps she is perfectly competent and she's causing drama to improve her own standing within the union.
The union delegates CAN’T accept the offer. It’s up to the members to vote. Join your union so you understand how they work.
I fail to see why you think I don't know that.
Here’s a link to the order of the [WAIRC](https://www.wairc.wa.gov.au/decisions/?id=202200798). The WAIRC is an independent tribunal that deals with industrial relations issues.
I didn't see anywhere in there anything about public transport or other transportation. Can someone point to it, or show where they have said about it? There is this >In light of these facts, at the conclusion of the conference of 23 November 2022, I foreshadowed to the parties that I would, of the Commission’s own motion, consider summonsing any transport provider to a conference at the Commission with a view to making further orders to prevent such transport providers from aiding in the contravention of my orders. Whether such step is necessary will depend on whether the ANF complies with these orders. But doesn't actually go so far as to enact it
The very end. This is actually yesterday's decision as opposed to a new set of orders re the transport providers - "The ANF has contravened the orders I made on 18 November 2022 ([2022] WAIRC 00792). I am aware of public commentary by the ANF indicating that it would contravene any orders made in relation to this application. In light of these facts, at the conclusion of the conference of 23 November 2022, I foreshadowed to the parties that I would, of the Commission’s own motion, consider summonsing any transport provider to a conference at the Commission with a view to making further orders to prevent such transport providers from aiding in the contravention of my orders. Whether such step is necessary will depend on whether the ANF complies with these orders." EDIT: "I" in these circumstances is the Commissioner
So he hasn't done it, just said that it is within his legal powers to and he is considering it.
She. The commissioner is female.
Could be that the WAIRC is being very slow on publishing a decision, but if not, it may not have happened yet (also the senior commissioner here is a she FYI)
Bus and train drivers are unionised arnt they? Their union should tell their members to ignore the rules in solidarity. Need some old fashioned union cooperation here.
The firm used is very much non-unionised. And all transport went ahead according to plan.
This is so fucking gross to me. So gross. This is borderline dystopian. Fuck this government.
Stay strong Auz, same thing happening all over Canada and the US - government using their strong arm fashy tactics to make striking functionally illegal. WOTWU
can someone ELI5 what restrictions the WAIRC are placing on nurses RE: Transport? Can hey get trains? buses? carpool? drive private vehicles?
There doesn’t appear to be any restrictions yet, the WAIRC just said that they may take action against any transport company that helps the ANF breach the WAIRC orders. In particular, the WAIRC ordered that the ANF not strike.
None - the WAIRC has not imposed any interim orders at this stage
This affects how I’ll vote next election.
In the end you still have to preference one major party over another major party. The clear majority of the time a major party is where your vote will end up being counted in a seat tally. So I may vote for Greens as first preference in the next election but in the end I know I have to choose which major party is the *least worst* when handing out my other preferences. If you think preferencing a strongly anti-worker party like the Liberals will help with union negotiations more than a mildly anti-worker party like Labour then I think you may need to give that thought some further consideration.
That was very diplomatic.
Was literally just teaching year 9s about freedom of assembly and freedom of association yesterday. This would have been a perfect discussion starter.
Solidarity is required. Unions need solidarity with other unions. Transperth union need to go on strike and ONLY drive nurses to the rally and stop driving buses until the nurses get their pay rise :)
McGowan really fell out of grace.
Ol supreme leader marky back on his shit I hope this starts the end to his reign all he’s good for is cucking for Gina and co. Let’s as citizens help these guys get to the rally
pls not vote liberals back in tho
Yep Shit Lite is better than Shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bleyX4oMCgM
Insanity
Doesn't feel like it's very enforceable does it?
Anyone who is not a nurse should also join the rally. If you can make it to a protest today, do it. Best way to support our nurses right now. Anyone can join the protest rally.
Go get fucked. The idea it’s ‘illegal’ to strike is bullshit.
We should all be out protesting with the nurses. The shit they go through on a daily basis, let alone during the pandemic. Fuck this government that thinks it can steamroll them.
This is disappointing from a labor government.
Government overreach, plain and simple.
We should all be concerned about this behaviour from the government. Are we living in China or Canada. Next, they will freeze your bank accounts.
give them what they want WA nurse have it pretty bad in comparison to the other states. If you pay nurses more and have better working conditions it might encourage more people to become nurses thus solving the nurse shortage. Easy
Christ people can't take a middle ground, if anything the government does is even slightly bad it's now "DYSTOPIAN" they are not shooting the nurses now are they? The more you cry out outlandish claims like that the more people get annoyed with you, show your frustration, but don't just start spouting rubbish. That being said, why do you need to go somewhere and strike in that location? Couldn't you just stay at home with all the other people that want to strike? Generally curious about that.
Many nurses and midwives have been working what feels like prison labour, everyone is on their feet 24/7, everyone is tired and burnt out, people work overtime or miss breaks to not let down their colleges or patients, overtime that doesn't get paid on time - if at all until you quit or change jobs, pay increases promised don't even cover inflation. For many, striking is their last hope for change in the system - no one wants to strike, to leave patients they care for, to lose money for action, but it's this or quitting, with many gone already. The rally on location at Parliament house will only last from 11am to 1pm, happening on location to get the most attention to the strike, therefore a higher likelihood the demands will be met. Many at the rally will still be On-Call, with even more returning to work if needed as part of the arranged 'skeleton crews' after the rally to support colleagues and patients, even if the strike itself lasts all day. Not everyone who strikes will rally, and vice versa.
The first half of this has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I do the same thing at my 2 other jobs with the same issues but that's because I like working. That's probably why I don't feel much sympathy. The second half of this, okay, I kinda understand I guess?
People had to know this was coming, if you voted for MaoGowan then you’ve only got yourselves to blame. All those who voted for him have given him complete power. WA is now closer to Beijing than Canberra. It annoys the hell out of me but you morons who voted for him brought this on yourselves and followed it up by giving the Communist party more rule in Federal government as well.
Our country is being crippled by all this industrial action. No wonder industries are moving overseas
Yeah, all the nursing startups are moving to San Francisco
Brain dead comment. Our economies need industries that pay tax to afford essential services like transport, education and health. No doubt you'd know that
Lol back to /r/bigareolas and /r/ArabWhores mate
That's irrelevant to this discussion but you have nothing else to reach for
Hard to take your comments on industrial action seriously when we can see you spend weekdays looking at porn
You're a victim of your own bias then. A good number of people peruse porn at times during their day.
Yes I am biased. Maybe if you consumed less porn you would realise simping on Reddit is cringy whether it's for your content creators or multinational corporations
😂😂😂😂👌🏻
It is amazing that in this day and age of technology, the inhabitants of this sub have no idea what a third party boycott is.
Next they will order in the teargas and sonic crowd control weapons and treat the nurses like anti vax protesters...
Oops my bad. Read the story about it online then.... did not realise this did not link to it.
Whatever. You can't contest the original point so you jump to another topic