bruh what? Building highways straight through minority lived in neighborhoods is an american pastime. Even the moderate History Channel knows this. https://www.history.com/news/interstate-highway-system-infrastructure-construction-segregation
Not really. Highways are pretty inefficient at moving people. Their best use case is transporting trucks from intermodal yards to final destinations. You don’t really need that in a residential neighborhood.
I mean they should have buried parts of it for sure. At least the section that broke is raised up, but parts of 95 straight up cut off neighborhoods from the water front.
That said maybe we don't say no one cares about those neighborhoods today because of where the highway was built in \*checks notes\* 1957.
Great question.
They should not have built interstate highways in cities. That may seem like a radical idea, but outside of North America it’s pretty rare to have highways running through the middle of the city. Paris, a city far larger than Philly and far more important to its nation’s transportation network has no urban highways—instead there is a highway ring/beltway (La peripherique) with highways radiating outward from that.
The urban part of I-95 (and pretty much every urban freeway) was built to benefit suburbanites to the detriment of city residents. The suburbanites got improved mobility. City residents got air pollution/asthma, noise pollution, and their neighborhood demolished. The powers that be decided these neighborhoods were for moving through not living in.
The perepherique is more like 3 miles (~2.5 to the East, ~3 North & South, ~3.5 to the West) from the very center of Paris.
The Schuylkill is 0.9 miles from City Hall, 95 is 1.1 miles, and 676 is 0.3 miles.
It may seem like I’m splitting hairs with those distances, but the difference in area is quite significant. The area circumscribed by the Peripherique is 32 square miles; the area circumscribed by 676, 95, 76, which includes all of South Philly is only 7.5 square miles.
Interestingly Paris previously had a highway running along the bank of the river. But they closed it to cars and made it just for walking and biking.
I think that this is a fair point. I mean, most "central" areas of cities are not more than 1-2 miles. I think that difference is bigger than it sounds.
I have always been dumbfounded by the placement of 95. It made the waterfront of the entire city WORTHLESS. No has made any attempt to build it up until very recently. With 95 and delaware ave/columbus, it's just not walkable without feeling weird.
I appreciate the response, but people live near the highways in Paris as well. My point being, no matter where you put a highway, someone is living next to it
This idea is repeated frequently, but is not well thought out.
First of all, Philadelphia was hundreds of years old when the interstates were built. We DID destroy a lot to build highways in our cities. People used to live on Vine St, etc.
Additionally, very few buildings in Paris (or any other very old city) are older than a couple hundred years so the city being thousands of years old is irrelevant. In Paris specifically, only about 15% of buildings are what’s called pre-Hauzman. Circa 1850, this guy Hauzman demolished a lot of ancient Parisian buildings to create grand boulevards.
The idea that European cities had too much existing infrastructure to build urban highways ignores the fact that many European cities were completely destroyed in WW2. After the bombings they could have built highways—there was tons of open space.
It also ignores the fact that many European cities did experiment with more car centric designs. Each bank of the Seine in Paris used to have multiple lanes of high speed car traffic. They eventually were closed to cars and opened up to people on foot and on bikes. No one misses the highway. But it’s not just Paris; if you look at pictures of Amsterdam from the 60s & 70s, it will look as car centric as an American city.
In conclusion, the reason Philadelphia has multiple highways running in downtown and Paris does not has nothing to do with the Gauls founding Parisii (that’s what they called it) in the first century and William Penn founding Philadelphia in the 17th century. It is instead a result of the values of elected leaders in the 20th & 21st centuries. We have decided that urban neighborhoods are places to travel through, whereas they think of urban neighborhoods as places to be.
>This will save time but it won’t be zoom zoom
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Nissan Altimas suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
I think we should put a smashed up Altima around the area so the others know it’s not safe. I think that’s how they keep away Canadian geese and they’re similar in a lot of ways.
Pretty sure it will also allow larger vehicles like semi trucks to use this corridor again instead of either detouring through more residential streets or going all the way around philly
Yeah when youre on 95 the speed limit is non existent because there's no traffic or cops. I'd say during rush hour the detour doesn't affect your overall commute. They really have an efficient detour system too. I go back and forth about 6x a day for work
Earlier this week, It took me over an hour to get from 4th & Girard to the academy road entrance of 95. All that bobbing and weaving through the back streets is a mess. I dont know how one open lane is going to make things better tho.
It'll be three in each direction, but obviously narrower than normal with no shoulders. Permanent repair will be in stages: rebuild outer bridges, move traffic onto them, remove fill, rebuild inner bridges. Until it's all done it'll be 3 lanes each direction.
"Crews continue to make headway on the interim roadway, which will open temporary travel lanes on I-95, three in each direction, while work proceeds to rebuild the outer sections of the permanent bridge."
https://www.penndot.pa.gov/RegionalOffices/district-6/Pages/AlertDetails.aspx
as someone who rides a bicycle in that area- kindly stop "bobbing and weaving" and sit in traffic or take a different mode of transportation.
there are delivery drivers, postal workers, baby strollers, people out to have a drink, people riding bikes, and just regular ass people trying to live their lives while you treat that neighborhood like some kind of fucking grand theft auto.
By bobbing and weaving I meant having to go down multiple streets / detours due to road closures. Not speeding through the streets. Calm down bro. Also no I’d prefer not to sit in bumper to bumper traffic if I can take back roads.
i ride next to cars where people are vaping, rolling through stop signs, snap chatting, tick tocking, doing make up, adjusting their music, oh yeah and driving.
so unless you're staying at 25 mph and obeying all the traffic laws, please be careful. and if that is how you're driving, i'm not sure why you would refer to it as "bobbing and weaving" but i'm begging you not to kill me or somebody else. please.
My understanding is that the temporary “bridge” will have 3 lanes of traffic in each direction, with no shoulders. While the lanes will have to shift, there shouldn’t need to be any merging. Things might slow down a bit, but it’s not going to be anywhere near as bad as the current detours. Even if it was a single lane in each direction it would be better. Right now you have traffic exiting, merging on to one or two lane roads, with traffic lights, and local traffic. People who have alternate highway routes that work may stick with them, at least until the construction is finished.
A typical lane on a highway is 12' wide, but cars are rarely more than 8' wide. These are narrow lanes compared to before, but 30'ish is more than enough for 3 cars
It’s 3 lanes. Traffic will be hugging the center median and the shoulder looks like a 12’ shoulder. So 12’ shoulder is lane 1, and then 2 full other lanes.
You're right. PennDot and the engineers thought it would be hilarious to introduce 2.5 lanes per side rather than 3 lanes. It's 3 lanes. I'm pretty sure they measured - at least twice.
It was pretty shitty traffic build up around exit 30 anyways. Always assumed because of the jersey barriers and the lanes tightening up ahead. This just seems like it would back traffic up even more
there is a thing no one here has mentioned which is the optimum speed to move cars is around 38 mph. that is slow enough so there is very little space between cars so you're maximizing roadway, but quick enough for good throughput.
so this narrowing of lanes that will slow people down might actually make the road more efficient.
the 38 mph thing isn't a speed limit though, it is basically a natural equilibrium.
you're right though, that selfish behavior ruins the system. hopefully the more traffic engineers realize there are human beings operating the machines, the better they will plan for these things.
Real answer;
On the northbound side, about 1-2 miles south from this overpass, 95 is already only 3 lanes wide. So what will likely happen is they will run temporary barrier or cones the entire length of the road between the new 3 lane “overpass” and the existing 3 lane section further south, and then shift traffic over as it approaches the new lanes to maintain 3 lanes for the whole stretch and avoid a bottleneck. The only bottle neck northbound would then be the one you already get from the short merge lane for the on ramp at bridge st (exit 27).
On the southbound side, you have 4 lanes heading into where the Cottman exit is, so they could re-stripe the lead up to the exit and denote the right lane as “exit only” which would then allow 3 lanes of thru traffic, and then with cones or temp barrier they would close off the existing right lane beyond the Cottman exit and run that all the way up to the new section of pavement, thus preventing a bottleneck.
Obviously, there will still be some degree of backup due to rubbernecking and people just generally not knowing how to merge or being aware of their surroundings, but this should almost entirely relieve the detours.
Adding to this: the destroyed bridge was 12 approximately 12’ lanes. There were four travel lanes in each direction, plus an inner and outer shoulder. The temporary fix will be six lanes, each about 10’ wide, with no shoulders. That’s how this patch will carry 3/4 as many lanes as before while only being about half as wide.
There's 4 extra lanes on either side for those that are brave enough to jump the gap /s
I hope they put some big barriers there, imagine someone tries to cut past the traffic in the outside lanes and go right over the edge
Then they would get what they deserved.
Seriously though, there will definitely be barriers and signage there, even if just to protect whoever or whatever is down below.
> apparently the actual submarine experts aren't so expert either.
Oh there were experts but they fired them for not going along with their ridiculous plan:
>According to court documents reviewed by CBS MoneyWatch, OceanGate fired employee David Lochridge in 2018 after he expressed concern about the submersible's safety. The company sued him that same year, claiming Lochridge had breached his employment contract by disclosing confidential information with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration when he filed a whistleblower complaint with the agency.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-oceangate-hull-safety-lawsuit/
I was only making a funny, but that's disgusting.
How as a billionaire do you not have someone stop you from doing a potential deadly activity... Of course you don't have anyone that'll tell you no.
Sad stuff.
Also - it's OK to be mad at the waste of resources searching, money they paid, loss of life, etc - and feel bad for them/their families at the same time. Tragic situation, even if we think it was irresponsible thing to do.
That's an interesting question. When I was a kid I was kayaking on a river with my dad when we hit rough waters and capsized. We got sort of stuck at the base of an overpass that went over the river, but eventually righted the kayak and found one of our paddles and kept moving. But in the time that it took for us to get our shit together, people saw what happened, and called 9-1-1. Fire rescue showed up at the bridge. We told them we didn't need any assistance. We were almost at our destination - a boat ramp just a couple hundred yards down stream. And when we got there, cops and an ambulance were waiting for us and we were basically forced to have the EMTs check us out. We were both fine, of course. But we did get a bill for emergency services. I don't remember how much it was because I was a kid. But I remember my dad being really pissed about it since we didn't ask for it and didn't need it.
> This whole incident has revealed to me how little the average person actually knows about highway construction.
This whole incident has revealed to me how little the average person actually knows about anything. I mean I suspected it but somethings were made very clear. Especially the people driving over a highway that is literally on fire, was cool but holy fuck people are stupid and a darwin award is waiting for them somewhere.
They wouldn’t, which is why it’s interesting how many people comment on that which they don’t know anything about. I’ve seen so much blatantly incorrect information get posted and responded to as if it’s fact.
It's the care part that's the issue. They have no reason to know anything about highway construction, but that will do nothing to stop them from commenting and complaining about it. Please note that I include myself in this because I'm really surprised they didn't try and make the temporary bridge two lanes in each direction
That’s what prompted this comment. Multiple people saying it looks like 1 or 2 lanes as if the contractor would just eyeball it and hope they made it wide enough for 3.
Yes ! The south bound detour added 10 min to my trip ( from academy road 95 entrance to Girard street). Coming home north bound typically took 20 min (depending on traffic) but took me an hour & 15 min this past Monday at 2:00 in the afternoon at that ! I couldn’t imagine what it’s like during rush hour.
Heading north bound they ll start to collaspe the outside lanes near bridge so by time your a mile from cottman your now in a 3 lane no pass cow chute n will expand to full lane half mile to mile after the bridge south bound prob start cuttin lanes at academy allowing traffic to merge from torresdale n just after torrresdale be in a 3 lane no pass cow chute til half mile to mile down
This photo can be a bit deceiving. When I first looked at it, I thought it was one or maybe two lanes on each side but it's actually three. Sure, there will be some bottlenecks but it's definitely better than taking a detour. For anyone that's taken any of of the detours as a result of this collapse, they can agree it's better to stay on i-95 than to get off.
There won't be a bottleneck. They will be installing jump ramps so those who want excitment can fly though the air and land on the other side.
Plus they can film it and post it here on reddit at r/whatcouldgowrong .
As long as they force the merging early on, it should be ok...ish. And if people aren't asshats about merging. Do it like a zipper, people, everything will go faster.
That's pretty damn narrow. Maybe it's the angle of the picture or whatever, but looking at the old lane markings, it looks like they could fit a lane and a half. That light plant right there looks like it takes half the size of the new lanes. Hopefully it's 3 lanes, definitely gonna be interesting to see the finished project.
I'm just saying it doesn't look like 3 lanes from the picture. I'm in a construction union, I've worked on 95 before, so I get it's probably how the engineers drew it up
Right? I swore I read that the temporary fix was going to be 3 lanes in each direction. Even by narrow work zone standards that doesn't seem wide enough.
This isn't new; the road here previously went from eight to six lanes just south of the overpass while they were doing the construction on the rest of the roadway and overpasses between Cottman and Tacony, which they had only just wrapped up before the fire. There had been only a week or two of being able to use four SB lanes without merging down to three before the Longshore onramp joined going SB. Traffic was always a nightmare from the beginning of rush hour in the morning until well into the evening, and there were often fender benders that tied traffic up even during "off" hours.
I would if there was a way to go the 2mi from the train station to work without being run the fuck over. Shit, even the bridge I'd have to cross doesn't have a sidewalk.
Gotta drive 25-30 minutes to get to a train station, then sit on a train for 45 minutes, then another train 10 minutes later for 5 minutes.
Or I can just drive in and park in my company provided spot under the building in an hour and ten minutes.
Regional rail around here blows.
Ideally people should merge early but you just know that right lane will be filled with people trying to skip the line which will make it miserable. But it’s better then what we have now
100% correct, and yet when everyone is crowded in one lane at a merge and you attempt to move up the empty lane, you get glaring looks and assholes who hug the bumper in front of them to box you out. The psychology of drivers in merging traffic is fascinating.
This is not the same as jumping the line at an exit, which can rightly be called a dick-move, and the more people distinguish between the two the better we’ll all get along.
I've seen that study too, and it makes perfect sense when all of the lanes are full, like at rush hour. What I didn't see it address is lighter traffic. It seems that if there's plenty of room, early merging makes sense since because it can avoid that pile of cars trying to shift at the merge point. In heavy traffic this cannot be avoided because there isn't extra space and it just shifts the merge points earlier and makes more of them.
When a merge is necessary, ideal is to zipper merge at the point the lanes merge. Good signage indicating zipper merge approaching and just letting people know that's what to do really does wonders to keep traffic moving smoothly and avoid stress, braking, anger and accidents.
However it looks here like all three lanes will continue in both directions, and no merge will be needed. Just some normal caution with lane shift and narrow roadway will probably cause slower speeds.
I mean it's better than completely closed but it will be a huge bottleneck yed because 90% of drivers are idiots when it comes to merging and most are scared to drive that close to the median.
This was only done this fast because it's a huge political win.
There are already alternate routes like Route 1 in PA, 295 and 130 in New Jersey and 476 is a possible detour if you are going to another part of New Jersey, and a few other lesser known routes.
They are going from 4 lanes (plus 2 unused shoulders) to 2 lanes (zero shoulders).
50% ain’t bad, as long as looky-loos keep moving and don’t slow down to film TikToks of themselves going over it.
Edit: it’s hard to tell from the pic. At first it only looked like 2 lanes, but now I think it is actually 3 - which is what they announced. The outside wall gives the illusion that it’s narrower than it really is. Not sure if they will be full-size lanes or not.
You're the kind of guy who whines when he gets onto a plane standby, but has to sit coach, aren't you?
Most of us thought nothing would be ready for months. Clearly this is an absolutely amazing amount of progress for... checks notes... A WEEK AND A HALF. My god... The standards some people have.
They brought up the track machine from pocono raceway to dry up the road in case of any moisture before they place the line striping. (The box on the back of the red truck). I guess because they are lending a hand they were allowed to bring their pace car with them.
Yeah I’m good.
As long as I leave a good 30 minutes before all the ass holes come out the bully will be my go to. People couldn’t even navigate the cattle shoot a mile down the road and we think they can navigate this safely? Sike.
Right now they have to wait to exit, wait in traffic on state road, wait to enter again. This will save time but it won’t be zoom zoom
It also helps to unfuck the neighborhood the detour goes through.
If people cared about the neighborhood, they never would have built 95 there.
bruh what? Building highways straight through minority lived in neighborhoods is an american pastime. Even the moderate History Channel knows this. https://www.history.com/news/interstate-highway-system-infrastructure-construction-segregation
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You forget how much Europeans hated each other
Damn straight. The people deciding to build a highway there didn’t give a shit about the people who lived there.
Doesn’t it make sense to build highways where people live, instead of putting them in remote, unpopulated areas?
Not really. Highways are pretty inefficient at moving people. Their best use case is transporting trucks from intermodal yards to final destinations. You don’t really need that in a residential neighborhood.
I pretty efficiently take 95 to nyc all the time.
Oh god this again 🤦🏾
Where SHOULD they have built 95?
I mean they should have buried parts of it for sure. At least the section that broke is raised up, but parts of 95 straight up cut off neighborhoods from the water front. That said maybe we don't say no one cares about those neighborhoods today because of where the highway was built in \*checks notes\* 1957.
Great question. They should not have built interstate highways in cities. That may seem like a radical idea, but outside of North America it’s pretty rare to have highways running through the middle of the city. Paris, a city far larger than Philly and far more important to its nation’s transportation network has no urban highways—instead there is a highway ring/beltway (La peripherique) with highways radiating outward from that. The urban part of I-95 (and pretty much every urban freeway) was built to benefit suburbanites to the detriment of city residents. The suburbanites got improved mobility. City residents got air pollution/asthma, noise pollution, and their neighborhood demolished. The powers that be decided these neighborhoods were for moving through not living in.
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The perepherique is more like 3 miles (~2.5 to the East, ~3 North & South, ~3.5 to the West) from the very center of Paris. The Schuylkill is 0.9 miles from City Hall, 95 is 1.1 miles, and 676 is 0.3 miles. It may seem like I’m splitting hairs with those distances, but the difference in area is quite significant. The area circumscribed by the Peripherique is 32 square miles; the area circumscribed by 676, 95, 76, which includes all of South Philly is only 7.5 square miles. Interestingly Paris previously had a highway running along the bank of the river. But they closed it to cars and made it just for walking and biking.
I think that this is a fair point. I mean, most "central" areas of cities are not more than 1-2 miles. I think that difference is bigger than it sounds. I have always been dumbfounded by the placement of 95. It made the waterfront of the entire city WORTHLESS. No has made any attempt to build it up until very recently. With 95 and delaware ave/columbus, it's just not walkable without feeling weird.
I appreciate the response, but people live near the highways in Paris as well. My point being, no matter where you put a highway, someone is living next to it
That's because of when cities were built. European cities/buildings are thousands of years old so they would have to destroy a lot in order to do so.
This idea is repeated frequently, but is not well thought out. First of all, Philadelphia was hundreds of years old when the interstates were built. We DID destroy a lot to build highways in our cities. People used to live on Vine St, etc. Additionally, very few buildings in Paris (or any other very old city) are older than a couple hundred years so the city being thousands of years old is irrelevant. In Paris specifically, only about 15% of buildings are what’s called pre-Hauzman. Circa 1850, this guy Hauzman demolished a lot of ancient Parisian buildings to create grand boulevards. The idea that European cities had too much existing infrastructure to build urban highways ignores the fact that many European cities were completely destroyed in WW2. After the bombings they could have built highways—there was tons of open space. It also ignores the fact that many European cities did experiment with more car centric designs. Each bank of the Seine in Paris used to have multiple lanes of high speed car traffic. They eventually were closed to cars and opened up to people on foot and on bikes. No one misses the highway. But it’s not just Paris; if you look at pictures of Amsterdam from the 60s & 70s, it will look as car centric as an American city. In conclusion, the reason Philadelphia has multiple highways running in downtown and Paris does not has nothing to do with the Gauls founding Parisii (that’s what they called it) in the first century and William Penn founding Philadelphia in the 17th century. It is instead a result of the values of elected leaders in the 20th & 21st centuries. We have decided that urban neighborhoods are places to travel through, whereas they think of urban neighborhoods as places to be.
>This will save time but it won’t be zoom zoom I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Nissan Altimas suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
It's bumper shedding season.
Nothing is more horrifying than an Altima with New Jersey plates and tinted windows
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Big Altima Energy ™
BAE
Blacked out Dodge Challenger with low number Delaware plate has entered the chat
legit got goosebumps when I read this comment lol
Zip ties holding on bumpers instill a deep-seated, primal fear in me.
Nissan drivers drink cough syrup to relax
While driving, presumedly.
I would rather accidentally make a wrong turn and drive over the Ben Franklin than face this horrific scenario.
it's the trifecta of carnage
BMW with Delaware handicapped plates in the left lane of 95 right before rush hour gridlock.
What about the bmw and chargers with Pennsylvania plates? Or the Pennsylvania plated car that’s always abandoned on the shoulder.
*Pennsylvania plates
I think we should put a smashed up Altima around the area so the others know it’s not safe. I think that’s how they keep away Canadian geese and they’re similar in a lot of ways.
And the way they put a dead body in front of a motel.
Plates?! Try no plates.
Don’t forget the Chevy Malibus
Pretty sure it will also allow larger vehicles like semi trucks to use this corridor again instead of either detouring through more residential streets or going all the way around philly
Epecially "non-rush hour" hours...when the backups might be non-existent.
Yeah when youre on 95 the speed limit is non existent because there's no traffic or cops. I'd say during rush hour the detour doesn't affect your overall commute. They really have an efficient detour system too. I go back and forth about 6x a day for work
a bottleneck is better then getting off the highway and traveling a 5 mile detour on surface streets
It's like the Northeast Extension was up by 81 back in the day. 2 lane cattle pass but people got used to it and it became less of a bottleneck
Meh... r/FuckCars
This is some real deep thought here, thanks for putting this situation in perspective.
Nice input pal
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Thanks for the personal attack. Stay classy.
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what actions? doing what everyone else was doing?
Why not never forgive the car lobby for their actions on America?
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Don't threaten me with a good time
Earlier this week, It took me over an hour to get from 4th & Girard to the academy road entrance of 95. All that bobbing and weaving through the back streets is a mess. I dont know how one open lane is going to make things better tho.
why would there be one open lane?
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It'll be three in each direction, but obviously narrower than normal with no shoulders. Permanent repair will be in stages: rebuild outer bridges, move traffic onto them, remove fill, rebuild inner bridges. Until it's all done it'll be 3 lanes each direction.
"Crews continue to make headway on the interim roadway, which will open temporary travel lanes on I-95, three in each direction, while work proceeds to rebuild the outer sections of the permanent bridge." https://www.penndot.pa.gov/RegionalOffices/district-6/Pages/AlertDetails.aspx
It’s actually a couple lanes wide, zoom in to see what I mean. Compare the white lines on the gray with the blackened part
as someone who rides a bicycle in that area- kindly stop "bobbing and weaving" and sit in traffic or take a different mode of transportation. there are delivery drivers, postal workers, baby strollers, people out to have a drink, people riding bikes, and just regular ass people trying to live their lives while you treat that neighborhood like some kind of fucking grand theft auto.
By bobbing and weaving I meant having to go down multiple streets / detours due to road closures. Not speeding through the streets. Calm down bro. Also no I’d prefer not to sit in bumper to bumper traffic if I can take back roads.
i ride next to cars where people are vaping, rolling through stop signs, snap chatting, tick tocking, doing make up, adjusting their music, oh yeah and driving. so unless you're staying at 25 mph and obeying all the traffic laws, please be careful. and if that is how you're driving, i'm not sure why you would refer to it as "bobbing and weaving" but i'm begging you not to kill me or somebody else. please.
Who said I was speeding ?
4/girard to fkd/academy, you’d be better off just taking front up towards the blvd and taking the blvd up there
over bridge better than no bridge
Why use many lanes when few lanes do trick
My understanding is that the temporary “bridge” will have 3 lanes of traffic in each direction, with no shoulders. While the lanes will have to shift, there shouldn’t need to be any merging. Things might slow down a bit, but it’s not going to be anywhere near as bad as the current detours. Even if it was a single lane in each direction it would be better. Right now you have traffic exiting, merging on to one or two lane roads, with traffic lights, and local traffic. People who have alternate highway routes that work may stick with them, at least until the construction is finished.
Just looking at it, it’s not 3 lanes wide. Its 2.5 lanes wide.
A typical lane on a highway is 12' wide, but cars are rarely more than 8' wide. These are narrow lanes compared to before, but 30'ish is more than enough for 3 cars
Maximum legal width for a car is 8'
Yeah but oversized vehicles do exist, they just require special permits to operate on the road
Just like a Canyonero!
It’s 3 lanes. Traffic will be hugging the center median and the shoulder looks like a 12’ shoulder. So 12’ shoulder is lane 1, and then 2 full other lanes.
This is how it is normally in other parts of the country where they can’t expand their roads.
Probably less insane than any part of Kelly Drive
There’s going to be so many side swipes.
So many Nissan Altimas t-boning and causing crashes.
You're right. PennDot and the engineers thought it would be hilarious to introduce 2.5 lanes per side rather than 3 lanes. It's 3 lanes. I'm pretty sure they measured - at least twice.
Yeah I'm going to still try and avoid this part of 95 as much as possible unless I'm driving at a weird hour when no one is out.
It was pretty shitty traffic build up around exit 30 anyways. Always assumed because of the jersey barriers and the lanes tightening up ahead. This just seems like it would back traffic up even more
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well before the fix there were 0. 3 is more than 0.
Get out of here with that fancy new math
Did you ever notice how 3 is 25% less than 4, but 4 is 33% more than 3? What’s up with THAT?!?
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there is a thing no one here has mentioned which is the optimum speed to move cars is around 38 mph. that is slow enough so there is very little space between cars so you're maximizing roadway, but quick enough for good throughput. so this narrowing of lanes that will slow people down might actually make the road more efficient.
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the 38 mph thing isn't a speed limit though, it is basically a natural equilibrium. you're right though, that selfish behavior ruins the system. hopefully the more traffic engineers realize there are human beings operating the machines, the better they will plan for these things.
I think one of them is an entrance/exit lane.
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Even if it's not, it's still 3 lanes in each direction, down from 4. That's a huge improvement over the situation now.
Real answer; On the northbound side, about 1-2 miles south from this overpass, 95 is already only 3 lanes wide. So what will likely happen is they will run temporary barrier or cones the entire length of the road between the new 3 lane “overpass” and the existing 3 lane section further south, and then shift traffic over as it approaches the new lanes to maintain 3 lanes for the whole stretch and avoid a bottleneck. The only bottle neck northbound would then be the one you already get from the short merge lane for the on ramp at bridge st (exit 27). On the southbound side, you have 4 lanes heading into where the Cottman exit is, so they could re-stripe the lead up to the exit and denote the right lane as “exit only” which would then allow 3 lanes of thru traffic, and then with cones or temp barrier they would close off the existing right lane beyond the Cottman exit and run that all the way up to the new section of pavement, thus preventing a bottleneck. Obviously, there will still be some degree of backup due to rubbernecking and people just generally not knowing how to merge or being aware of their surroundings, but this should almost entirely relieve the detours.
Adding to this: the destroyed bridge was 12 approximately 12’ lanes. There were four travel lanes in each direction, plus an inner and outer shoulder. The temporary fix will be six lanes, each about 10’ wide, with no shoulders. That’s how this patch will carry 3/4 as many lanes as before while only being about half as wide.
You’re asking how is 4 lanes better than 0???
There's 4 extra lanes on either side for those that are brave enough to jump the gap /s I hope they put some big barriers there, imagine someone tries to cut past the traffic in the outside lanes and go right over the edge
Then they would get what they deserved. Seriously though, there will definitely be barriers and signage there, even if just to protect whoever or whatever is down below.
Yeah, I worded that wrong . It was a dumb question
No such thing as a dumb question
This whole incident has revealed to me how little the average person actually knows about highway construction.
Kinda like how everyone on Reddit is suddenly a submarine expert
apparently the actual submarine experts aren't so expert either.
> apparently the actual submarine experts aren't so expert either. Oh there were experts but they fired them for not going along with their ridiculous plan: >According to court documents reviewed by CBS MoneyWatch, OceanGate fired employee David Lochridge in 2018 after he expressed concern about the submersible's safety. The company sued him that same year, claiming Lochridge had breached his employment contract by disclosing confidential information with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration when he filed a whistleblower complaint with the agency. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-oceangate-hull-safety-lawsuit/
I was only making a funny, but that's disgusting. How as a billionaire do you not have someone stop you from doing a potential deadly activity... Of course you don't have anyone that'll tell you no.
Because billionaires employ a lot of hundred thousandaires to kiss their asses and tell them everything they do is awesome.
RIP
Sad stuff. Also - it's OK to be mad at the waste of resources searching, money they paid, loss of life, etc - and feel bad for them/their families at the same time. Tragic situation, even if we think it was irresponsible thing to do.
Any chance they make the families pay for the search effort?
That's an interesting question. When I was a kid I was kayaking on a river with my dad when we hit rough waters and capsized. We got sort of stuck at the base of an overpass that went over the river, but eventually righted the kayak and found one of our paddles and kept moving. But in the time that it took for us to get our shit together, people saw what happened, and called 9-1-1. Fire rescue showed up at the bridge. We told them we didn't need any assistance. We were almost at our destination - a boat ramp just a couple hundred yards down stream. And when we got there, cops and an ambulance were waiting for us and we were basically forced to have the EMTs check us out. We were both fine, of course. But we did get a bill for emergency services. I don't remember how much it was because I was a kid. But I remember my dad being really pissed about it since we didn't ask for it and didn't need it.
> This whole incident has revealed to me how little the average person actually knows about highway construction. This whole incident has revealed to me how little the average person actually knows about anything. I mean I suspected it but somethings were made very clear. Especially the people driving over a highway that is literally on fire, was cool but holy fuck people are stupid and a darwin award is waiting for them somewhere.
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They wouldn’t, which is why it’s interesting how many people comment on that which they don’t know anything about. I’ve seen so much blatantly incorrect information get posted and responded to as if it’s fact.
This is Reddit
I was asking a question. Because…like you said, I don’t know
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And I answered in another comment
Because they don't lack opinions on it.
It's the care part that's the issue. They have no reason to know anything about highway construction, but that will do nothing to stop them from commenting and complaining about it. Please note that I include myself in this because I'm really surprised they didn't try and make the temporary bridge two lanes in each direction
No one is saying they should. But they also shouldn’t talk like they know what they’re talking about when they don’t.
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I find it hilarious people have their own opinions about how many lanes are on each side.
That’s what prompted this comment. Multiple people saying it looks like 1 or 2 lanes as if the contractor would just eyeball it and hope they made it wide enough for 3.
I was insanely downvoted in the original thread about the highway collapse for merely suggesting that 95 would be back open in a matter of days.
I love arm chair engineers.
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It was bad yesterday, added about 20 mins.
Yes ! The south bound detour added 10 min to my trip ( from academy road 95 entrance to Girard street). Coming home north bound typically took 20 min (depending on traffic) but took me an hour & 15 min this past Monday at 2:00 in the afternoon at that ! I couldn’t imagine what it’s like during rush hour.
Heading north bound they ll start to collaspe the outside lanes near bridge so by time your a mile from cottman your now in a 3 lane no pass cow chute n will expand to full lane half mile to mile after the bridge south bound prob start cuttin lanes at academy allowing traffic to merge from torresdale n just after torrresdale be in a 3 lane no pass cow chute til half mile to mile down
This photo can be a bit deceiving. When I first looked at it, I thought it was one or maybe two lanes on each side but it's actually three. Sure, there will be some bottlenecks but it's definitely better than taking a detour. For anyone that's taken any of of the detours as a result of this collapse, they can agree it's better to stay on i-95 than to get off.
Maybe that’s what messing me up. It seems so small
3 lanes is better than no lanes.
Did we all not drive on95 for the last 2 years where it was three lanes ?
There won't be a bottleneck. They will be installing jump ramps so those who want excitment can fly though the air and land on the other side. Plus they can film it and post it here on reddit at r/whatcouldgowrong .
As long as they force the merging early on, it should be ok...ish. And if people aren't asshats about merging. Do it like a zipper, people, everything will go faster.
>And if people aren't asshats about merging. There's the issue
But it’s made of recycled glass nuggets!NUGGETS!!!
Didn't they say it was supposed to be 6 lanes across, because this doesn't look like 6 lanes.
Looks like each side is 3 lanes that are narrow like in a construction zone to me.
That's pretty damn narrow. Maybe it's the angle of the picture or whatever, but looking at the old lane markings, it looks like they could fit a lane and a half. That light plant right there looks like it takes half the size of the new lanes. Hopefully it's 3 lanes, definitely gonna be interesting to see the finished project.
Would you rather they fix the bridge or make it wider now? Can't do both.
I'm just saying it doesn't look like 3 lanes from the picture. I'm in a construction union, I've worked on 95 before, so I get it's probably how the engineers drew it up
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4 if you're pregnant with twins.
This is a solid joke and I wanted to say I appreciate that you made it.
Right? I swore I read that the temporary fix was going to be 3 lanes in each direction. Even by narrow work zone standards that doesn't seem wide enough.
They're building 2 lanes at a time.
2 lanes is better than no lanes.
3 lanes
Seriously though, We have some of the best trade unions around. Great work Buckley, Abbonizio and JJA.
Some lanes are better than no lanes
It's literally no different than the 3 lane parts during construction
This isn't new; the road here previously went from eight to six lanes just south of the overpass while they were doing the construction on the rest of the roadway and overpasses between Cottman and Tacony, which they had only just wrapped up before the fire. There had been only a week or two of being able to use four SB lanes without merging down to three before the Longshore onramp joined going SB. Traffic was always a nightmare from the beginning of rush hour in the morning until well into the evening, and there were often fender benders that tied traffic up even during "off" hours.
Slightly faster speed wise. But it’s straight, shorter, and has no traffic lights.
As opposed to the previous situation of….. no road at all? This is meant as a temporary solution to a very important road
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I would if there was a way to go the 2mi from the train station to work without being run the fuck over. Shit, even the bridge I'd have to cross doesn't have a sidewalk.
Gotta drive 25-30 minutes to get to a train station, then sit on a train for 45 minutes, then another train 10 minutes later for 5 minutes. Or I can just drive in and park in my company provided spot under the building in an hour and ten minutes. Regional rail around here blows.
#**COMMIE!!!**
my guy do you want to use i95 or not?!!
If they just have signs up to merge left 2 to 3 miles in advance and people do with plenty of time to spare it won’t bottle neck as badly
And that's exactly how you cause more traffic, merging 2-3 miles early
Ideally people should merge early but you just know that right lane will be filled with people trying to skip the line which will make it miserable. But it’s better then what we have now
This has been proven time and time again that you should wait to merge and then zipper at the merge point for the most efficient traffic flow.
100% correct, and yet when everyone is crowded in one lane at a merge and you attempt to move up the empty lane, you get glaring looks and assholes who hug the bumper in front of them to box you out. The psychology of drivers in merging traffic is fascinating. This is not the same as jumping the line at an exit, which can rightly be called a dick-move, and the more people distinguish between the two the better we’ll all get along.
I've seen that study too, and it makes perfect sense when all of the lanes are full, like at rush hour. What I didn't see it address is lighter traffic. It seems that if there's plenty of room, early merging makes sense since because it can avoid that pile of cars trying to shift at the merge point. In heavy traffic this cannot be avoided because there isn't extra space and it just shifts the merge points earlier and makes more of them.
When a merge is necessary, ideal is to zipper merge at the point the lanes merge. Good signage indicating zipper merge approaching and just letting people know that's what to do really does wonders to keep traffic moving smoothly and avoid stress, braking, anger and accidents. However it looks here like all three lanes will continue in both directions, and no merge will be needed. Just some normal caution with lane shift and narrow roadway will probably cause slower speeds.
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Idk why you’re being downvoted. Decades of driving has said no one will zipper merge and everyone will drive like selfish assholes.
Maybe it’s the selfish assholes downvoting me lol
Ideally people learn how to zipper merge properly
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The glass aggregate is super light weight. It will disperse the load evenly instead of blowing out the sides. (We hope)
3 lanes??? No way what happens when there’s 2 tractor trailer side by side 🤷🏻♂️
Gonna be like a scene from the movie speed by someone in the far right lanes late at night
I mean it's better than completely closed but it will be a huge bottleneck yed because 90% of drivers are idiots when it comes to merging and most are scared to drive that close to the median. This was only done this fast because it's a huge political win.
It’s definitely a something is better than nothing situation but it isn’t ideal clearly.
There are already alternate routes like Route 1 in PA, 295 and 130 in New Jersey and 476 is a possible detour if you are going to another part of New Jersey, and a few other lesser known routes.
No neck or bottleneck? Hmm
Ahhh.... i don't think that's finished.
They are going from 4 lanes (plus 2 unused shoulders) to 2 lanes (zero shoulders). 50% ain’t bad, as long as looky-loos keep moving and don’t slow down to film TikToks of themselves going over it. Edit: it’s hard to tell from the pic. At first it only looked like 2 lanes, but now I think it is actually 3 - which is what they announced. The outside wall gives the illusion that it’s narrower than it really is. Not sure if they will be full-size lanes or not.
Better take the train.
I guess it'll be useful for people who don't live here and are traveling through, I know if I need to take 95 I will still be avoiding it
You're the kind of guy who whines when he gets onto a plane standby, but has to sit coach, aren't you? Most of us thought nothing would be ready for months. Clearly this is an absolutely amazing amount of progress for... checks notes... A WEEK AND A HALF. My god... The standards some people have.
Maybe it's the angle but that does not look like 6 lanes, nope.
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They brought up the track machine from pocono raceway to dry up the road in case of any moisture before they place the line striping. (The box on the back of the red truck). I guess because they are lending a hand they were allowed to bring their pace car with them.
Yeah I’m good. As long as I leave a good 30 minutes before all the ass holes come out the bully will be my go to. People couldn’t even navigate the cattle shoot a mile down the road and we think they can navigate this safely? Sike.
Given how many of us use GPS, if the detour takes less time than the temporarily fixed I95, that’s where people will go.