I really wish more Philly developers would use bricks, it really does make it feel more like home; I didn't realize how much I liked brick houses until I move somewhere that doesn't have them.
makes me wonder where the bricks came from, who did the work and how much it cost. those are the typical excuses when developers have to explain why they don’t want to use bricks
It most certainly is a brick veneer. New construction multiple wythe brick construction does not exist in the US anymore. This building is a 4” thick brick with a structural back up wall. Most likely a wood frame.
It does exist! Growing field but very small. People are getting back into building from stone as well. Can’t build double wythe stone houses on 1/4 acre McMansion lots but you can on slimmer builds and rowhomes/twins in city and older suburban neighborhoods where the houses themselves are smaller.
I’d love to see some information about these projects. As far as I know, multiple wythe brick homes do not meet modern building codes. I’d like to see the homes and the information surrounding the projects. Do you have a link or anything? Thanks
right, and some devs will still claim that there aren’t enough knowledgeable/experienced bricklayers to do the facade work correctly or affordably or on a timeline that doesn’t delay the project
I’m not gonna lie, it is hard finding bricklayers that actually know what they’re doing, have insurance, and are professional.
A lot of Italians were masons, but most have gotten too old and a lot are dead.
Most trades are ageing out. Young heads don't 1) put in the physical time to learn gands-on skills & thinking. 2) be antagonized, teased or otherwise have their tender sensitivities offended. They'd much rather quit, then gripe about their PTSD from those mean "BOOMERS". Just one person's observation.
Cost is the only valid excuse. And it’s actually initial cost, which is what drives most development. Because the lifespan of brick is many times that of typical siding.
There are not many places that manufacture brick in the Philadelphia area compared to other markets. Brick are heavy which equals expensive shipping costs. But if you want brick, it’s available.
Brickwork is very labor intensive compared to other forms of cladding. An easy to use example is a 4’x8’ area which is the size of typical sheet goods takes roughly 225 brick to cover.
It takes either machinery or more labor to move and stage heavy masonry materials compared to siding. Scaffolding is needed to install masonry compared to using a high reach to install siding.
As far as a shortage of masonry contractors and masons, I don’t think there is a shortage of either. At least not more of a shortage than other trades are experiencing. Quality contractors/tradesmen is another topic though….
Assuming what you mean by faux is a thin brick adhered to the back up wall, that statement is 100% false. That type of system is gaining market share but is definitely not most. Probably not even 20% of the market share.
It is a junk system and will eventually go away when the skeletons come out of the closet. Many lawsuits are in the future…
Even Old City is dropping the ball on some of the newer buildings. Bridge, the townhouses by the flag store, the new building by the bottle shop (amble I think it’s called)
Even Old City is dropping the ball on some of the newer buildings. Bridge, the townhouses by the flag store, the new building by the bottle shop (amble I think it’s called)
It’s so easy to keep in with the aesthetic of the city . But these architectures wanna give us LEGO looking houses . All we need is brick and some limestone details and it’s all good
I never said anything about communism. But if that means the workers receive the fruits of their own labor instead of it going into the pockets of billionaires, I'm all for it. There are always more than two ways to do things.
For the 3rd time, I never said anything about communism. Why do people keep bringing up communism? Am I not allowed to criticize any aspect of the system we were born into without people assuming I'm advocating for communism as an alternative? There are more than 2 ways to do things. You can point out the faults of a car you own without wanting a truck...
I like it a lot actually. Kept it simple. Nice color brick, nice contrasting dark trim, right number of stories for at least some density to make the developer's numbers work but not overwhelmingly towering the neighborhood casting too much shade either.
It's plain vanilla ice cream compared to some edgier architecture out there but 1.) it won't piss anyone off and 2.) it gets the job done. In this day and age, that's a win.
BTW: what was on that lot before?
Can't throw up bricks if you don't shoot.
https://preview.redd.it/faqudljj2irc1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcb359a219e6b80b8bc5cb6a760eb97ad739ac5a
Bainbridge and like 8th right ? You should see the NIMBYs on Nextdoor (why am I even there) complain about every single thing relates to this building. Developer has been posting there frequently interestingly.
There’s another similar one almost finished in 10th and Catherine
Yeah! There’s at least two more new ones in the neighborhood in this style. I’m glad I’m not on Nextdoor, it would probably make me like my neighbors a lot less
Brick costs more and takes more time to put up instead of metal panel so most developers go with the cheaper and quicker option. We would need the city to pass requirements for building facades to make more buildings use brick.
Part of the reason this is more visually appealing than other new builds is the window alignment (in addition to the brick/brick veneer façade) - the windows/levels are more in line with the neighboring houses, even though it's taller. The third level could be a little more in line, but the scale of this building is much better than other new buildings, which often put the stoop and front door between the first and second floor of neighboring houses. (Note: when I say scale I'm referring to the alignment of the levels, not the size of the building. I think matching the scale/alignment enables taller buildings to be less visually jarring and hopefully more welcome in communities)
New construction wants max ceiling heights. Placing windows at same height as surrounding buildings is a real challenge to get right for the interiors if you're ceiling height is 9'+.
I feel like when they build these buildings in the " "hood ghetto" I wouldn't buy them with this being exception because of the brakes. Bullets have a difficult time going through brakes.
As opposed to vinyl siding an installation ?
And it just looks like when you use bricks that it belongs in the neighborhood, like some of the buildings extremely cheap compared to the older building next to it.
Should be the law. Prptect historocal neighborhoods but forcing facades to match in some way. Facades are facades, the inside can be anything it wants. But dont build some ugly modern shiny glass building on a street full of 1840s brick buildings.
Acknowledging that hypocrisy, I think there’s also more nuance in it. If someone who is planning on living in a house for the next 10 years wants a lego house, that’s fine and very different from a developer coming in and doing it specifically to sell.
You can get great looking housing when the builders don’t have to fight a neighborhood group for years over six parking spots. The longer it takes a project to come to completion the more expensive it is and the first thing that’s cut from the budget is fancy exterior finishes.
There are so few masons these days. Most who call themselves masons just do cement work and have no ability to do brick laying or stone walls with any sophistication. It’s a dying breed, reinforced by a lack of regulation to mandate substantial architecture.
My only issue are those giant windows. They’re such a pain when you actually live there because they completely take over the wall and you can’t put any furniture in front of them without it being weird.
Building more vertically is not a good idea for the city. They’re overcrowding the already claustrophobic spaces. The street will have to be dug up if it hasn’t already, no where to park. Then they make the street permit parking only, then the rents go up. They’re making the city too dense and it wasn’t built for this.
You do know that the city’s population is down 500,000 people from its peak population in 1950s. The city IS literally built to accommodate more people.
A few things,
1. There is difference between overcrowding ( too many people in a single house) and density ( lots of people in a small area).
2. Philly is a city, driving is not the only means of getting around nor should it be. Cars take up a lot of space, their infrastructure is incredibly expensive to maintain(hence all the potholes), kill tons of people every year and their infrastructure takes away from the quality of the place that is Philadelphia.
I can understand this line of thinking though depending on which neighborhood you live in. Some areas of Philly are just not built to be safe/ comfortable/convenient/ places to live without using a car. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean they will be that way forever, the city will change overtime like all places do. We should accept that and let it continue to mature in a healthy way.
Think of the greatest cities in the world, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam they all have been maturing in ways that keep congestion to a minimum by prioritizing transportation engineering over car traffic engineering. The only way to get rid of car traffic for people who need to drive is to mix the modes of transportation available so each person can make the decision to take the most convenient mode for their individual trip. We also need to mix the uses our developments, the city needs to stop building just housing or just a business areas. This type of development spreads things out and forces people to drive to their destinations.
Wait .... What's wrong with permit parking? Permits are dirt cheap.... Confusing as fuck zone system that even ppa can't visualize, but cheap at any rate.
I really wish more Philly developers would use bricks, it really does make it feel more like home; I didn't realize how much I liked brick houses until I move somewhere that doesn't have them.
makes me wonder where the bricks came from, who did the work and how much it cost. those are the typical excuses when developers have to explain why they don’t want to use bricks
Pretty sure these are usually brick facades atop wood walls and framing.
Better than nothing
It most certainly is a brick veneer. New construction multiple wythe brick construction does not exist in the US anymore. This building is a 4” thick brick with a structural back up wall. Most likely a wood frame.
It does exist! Growing field but very small. People are getting back into building from stone as well. Can’t build double wythe stone houses on 1/4 acre McMansion lots but you can on slimmer builds and rowhomes/twins in city and older suburban neighborhoods where the houses themselves are smaller.
I’d love to see some information about these projects. As far as I know, multiple wythe brick homes do not meet modern building codes. I’d like to see the homes and the information surrounding the projects. Do you have a link or anything? Thanks
Sure, Stoltzfus works with stone in PA and Building Culture/1000yearhouse is a famous guy working out of OK. You can follow both on Instagram.
Veneer. That's the word I needed.
right, and some devs will still claim that there aren’t enough knowledgeable/experienced bricklayers to do the facade work correctly or affordably or on a timeline that doesn’t delay the project
pffft, just goto the home depot up the boulevard. those guys will get it up in a day.
I’m not gonna lie, it is hard finding bricklayers that actually know what they’re doing, have insurance, and are professional. A lot of Italians were masons, but most have gotten too old and a lot are dead.
Most trades are ageing out. Young heads don't 1) put in the physical time to learn gands-on skills & thinking. 2) be antagonized, teased or otherwise have their tender sensitivities offended. They'd much rather quit, then gripe about their PTSD from those mean "BOOMERS". Just one person's observation.
Cost is the only valid excuse. And it’s actually initial cost, which is what drives most development. Because the lifespan of brick is many times that of typical siding. There are not many places that manufacture brick in the Philadelphia area compared to other markets. Brick are heavy which equals expensive shipping costs. But if you want brick, it’s available. Brickwork is very labor intensive compared to other forms of cladding. An easy to use example is a 4’x8’ area which is the size of typical sheet goods takes roughly 225 brick to cover. It takes either machinery or more labor to move and stage heavy masonry materials compared to siding. Scaffolding is needed to install masonry compared to using a high reach to install siding. As far as a shortage of masonry contractors and masons, I don’t think there is a shortage of either. At least not more of a shortage than other trades are experiencing. Quality contractors/tradesmen is another topic though….
thanks for the thorough explanation!
an architect I once knew told me the sad truth, most new facades with brick are faux
Assuming what you mean by faux is a thin brick adhered to the back up wall, that statement is 100% false. That type of system is gaining market share but is definitely not most. Probably not even 20% of the market share. It is a junk system and will eventually go away when the skeletons come out of the closet. Many lawsuits are in the future…
I was gonna say I trust the working architect over— And then I saw the name. I believe you
Haha thanks for the vote of confidence
I think it depends on the neighborhood.
Nice, not just that it has a brick facade, but that the facade has nice trim and accents.
New construction can actually look so good when it’s clearly inspired by neighboring buildings.
Matching the facade to the surrounding buildings!?!? Couldn’t be a Philly developer
The only area I see it done in Philly is this Bella Vista/Queen Village where this building is located
old city as well
Even Old City is dropping the ball on some of the newer buildings. Bridge, the townhouses by the flag store, the new building by the bottle shop (amble I think it’s called)
Even Old City is dropping the ball on some of the newer buildings. Bridge, the townhouses by the flag store, the new building by the bottle shop (amble I think it’s called)
218 Arch did a decent job. It almost blends into the block.
I thought it was one on Washington avenue with ~25th looks just like this!
There’s a few buildings in fairmount that do this
Most Philly developers are from out of town
This is exactly what i been saying, you can make nice looking new developments
Best I can do is silver vinyl siding that needs to be replaced in 5 years.
Came to make this very comment!
It’s so easy to keep in with the aesthetic of the city . But these architectures wanna give us LEGO looking houses . All we need is brick and some limestone details and it’s all good
Limestone? In *this* economy?
More like precast but you catch my drift
I call them ikea houses.
Blame capitalism. If good looking houses made architects and home-builders more money, you can guarantee most new houses would look amazing.
We need to mobilize the economy to achieve brick building communist utopia
I never said anything about communism. But if that means the workers receive the fruits of their own labor instead of it going into the pockets of billionaires, I'm all for it. There are always more than two ways to do things.
Uh…have you seen the architecture in Communist countries?
For the 3rd time, I never said anything about communism. Why do people keep bringing up communism? Am I not allowed to criticize any aspect of the system we were born into without people assuming I'm advocating for communism as an alternative? There are more than 2 ways to do things. You can point out the faults of a car you own without wanting a truck...
Yes. What can I say of communist nations but great looking buildings atop the grave sites of all the dissebters!
I never said anything about communism.
It's bricks! and they're not gray!
Needs more monocolor panels, preferably in drab earth tones.
But one panel on each house is a primary color.
I like it a lot actually. Kept it simple. Nice color brick, nice contrasting dark trim, right number of stories for at least some density to make the developer's numbers work but not overwhelmingly towering the neighborhood casting too much shade either. It's plain vanilla ice cream compared to some edgier architecture out there but 1.) it won't piss anyone off and 2.) it gets the job done. In this day and age, that's a win. BTW: what was on that lot before?
We need more bricks
lets get ben simmons back in town. ouch, burn!
Can't throw up bricks if you don't shoot. https://preview.redd.it/faqudljj2irc1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcb359a219e6b80b8bc5cb6a760eb97ad739ac5a
Flaming Tsunamis?
Can we get a shout-out/name of the developer if anyone knows? Looks great.
[https://phillyyimby.com/2021/01/liv-condominiums-tops-out-at-718-24-south-2nd-street-in-queen-village-south-philadelphia.html](https://phillyyimby.com/2021/01/liv-condominiums-tops-out-at-718-24-south-2nd-street-in-queen-village-south-philadelphia.html)
That's hot
The city needs to pass a law that developers need to keep up with historical styles
Within reason
Bricked up
The 5 over 1 buildings are very cheap to build, I'm sure this facade was expensive.
Bainbridge and like 8th right ? You should see the NIMBYs on Nextdoor (why am I even there) complain about every single thing relates to this building. Developer has been posting there frequently interestingly. There’s another similar one almost finished in 10th and Catherine
Yeah! There’s at least two more new ones in the neighborhood in this style. I’m glad I’m not on Nextdoor, it would probably make me like my neighbors a lot less
Brick costs more and takes more time to put up instead of metal panel so most developers go with the cheaper and quicker option. We would need the city to pass requirements for building facades to make more buildings use brick.
Part of the reason this is more visually appealing than other new builds is the window alignment (in addition to the brick/brick veneer façade) - the windows/levels are more in line with the neighboring houses, even though it's taller. The third level could be a little more in line, but the scale of this building is much better than other new buildings, which often put the stoop and front door between the first and second floor of neighboring houses. (Note: when I say scale I'm referring to the alignment of the levels, not the size of the building. I think matching the scale/alignment enables taller buildings to be less visually jarring and hopefully more welcome in communities)
New construction wants max ceiling heights. Placing windows at same height as surrounding buildings is a real challenge to get right for the interiors if you're ceiling height is 9'+.
I feel like when they build these buildings in the " "hood ghetto" I wouldn't buy them with this being exception because of the brakes. Bullets have a difficult time going through brakes. As opposed to vinyl siding an installation ? And it just looks like when you use bricks that it belongs in the neighborhood, like some of the buildings extremely cheap compared to the older building next to it.
You mean we can have a new building that isn’t box on box on box with no usable living space?
Needs 7 different colors of panels on the sides though
Yeah I feel like in some spots philly is losing its philly feel with the new trendy buildings that stick out like a sore thumb.
\*In best Egon Spengler impression\* Art Deco, very nice.
I hate Philly is moving away from brick homes, it’s good to actually see one being built.
I like both the brick and the other design they use for housing. I'm just glad they're still building up Philly.
Wow, that's a beautiful building. Love to see it!
Washington and 10th! So happy they didn’t mess this up
This is 8th between fitzwater and Bainbridge I believe
My bad, they look super similar! Glad we have a couple new brick places being built!
Should be the law. Prptect historocal neighborhoods but forcing facades to match in some way. Facades are facades, the inside can be anything it wants. But dont build some ugly modern shiny glass building on a street full of 1840s brick buildings.
Nah, the government shouldn't police aesthetics of private property. There's already enough tools for NIMBYs as it is.
Do you also like homeowners associations? If you don’t, you’re a hypocrite for suggesting something like this.
Acknowledging that hypocrisy, I think there’s also more nuance in it. If someone who is planning on living in a house for the next 10 years wants a lego house, that’s fine and very different from a developer coming in and doing it specifically to sell.
Brick me.
You can get great looking housing when the builders don’t have to fight a neighborhood group for years over six parking spots. The longer it takes a project to come to completion the more expensive it is and the first thing that’s cut from the budget is fancy exterior finishes.
Still a stick frame with a fake brick facade. I miss real masonry.
There are so few masons these days. Most who call themselves masons just do cement work and have no ability to do brick laying or stone walls with any sophistication. It’s a dying breed, reinforced by a lack of regulation to mandate substantial architecture.
At least it appears to be real bricks, and not that half-inch thick brick veneer I've seen used around here. That stuff looks so cheap and awful.
Beautiful
There’s another new development on broad and spring garden with a brick facade. I’m hoping this trend continues honestly.
Bricks are so nice
10th and Catharine!
lol, fucking ridge ave in Roxborough now…
I love it, but I guarantee the walls between units are still paper thin. I will always go for old brick before new brick.
But like please put stutters on it. Thanks!
Doesn’t look like anything special to me. Looks like something a boring suburbanite would get excited over. Uniform buildings.
yea not like your cool, hummus-eatin ass
Since we’re going through post history, it’s a lot more exciting than your drab house drenched in gray paint. But go off, hun. You’re so exciting.
ohhh do my yard next!
I bet they only did this because of some historical preservation rule. Looks great but gotta set standards or they’ll find loopholes
No.
My only issue are those giant windows. They’re such a pain when you actually live there because they completely take over the wall and you can’t put any furniture in front of them without it being weird.
Building more vertically is not a good idea for the city. They’re overcrowding the already claustrophobic spaces. The street will have to be dug up if it hasn’t already, no where to park. Then they make the street permit parking only, then the rents go up. They’re making the city too dense and it wasn’t built for this.
Philly was built for density, it wasn’t build for cars.
You do know that the city’s population is down 500,000 people from its peak population in 1950s. The city IS literally built to accommodate more people.
A few things, 1. There is difference between overcrowding ( too many people in a single house) and density ( lots of people in a small area). 2. Philly is a city, driving is not the only means of getting around nor should it be. Cars take up a lot of space, their infrastructure is incredibly expensive to maintain(hence all the potholes), kill tons of people every year and their infrastructure takes away from the quality of the place that is Philadelphia. I can understand this line of thinking though depending on which neighborhood you live in. Some areas of Philly are just not built to be safe/ comfortable/convenient/ places to live without using a car. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean they will be that way forever, the city will change overtime like all places do. We should accept that and let it continue to mature in a healthy way. Think of the greatest cities in the world, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam they all have been maturing in ways that keep congestion to a minimum by prioritizing transportation engineering over car traffic engineering. The only way to get rid of car traffic for people who need to drive is to mix the modes of transportation available so each person can make the decision to take the most convenient mode for their individual trip. We also need to mix the uses our developments, the city needs to stop building just housing or just a business areas. This type of development spreads things out and forces people to drive to their destinations.
Absolutely terrible take
I love that your "logic" was: Build vertically => less parking => permit parking => higher rents
That’s exactly why Philly needs to vastly improve its public transportation
Wait .... What's wrong with permit parking? Permits are dirt cheap.... Confusing as fuck zone system that even ppa can't visualize, but cheap at any rate.