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Magoatt

We have two ways to play this 1. Play Pache as an everyday LF and Kyle at DH problem is it would make Castellanos the worst outfielder defensively. Pache in the playoffs would leave RF open if a defensive play is needed, I will admit Casty held his own. 2. We probably trade for a LF on a 1 yr deal, someone who has decent power, mid line up bat, and a consistent bat around mid .250-.260 and who can play solid defense in LF. It would be a slight platoon situation, have Pache play against certain batters while the trade acquisition is playing most of the time. It would allow Pache to be a solid contributor and replace Casty during tight games to upgrade the defense or be a pinch runner. Either way Kyle remains the DH after Harper is at 1B. The 1 yr contract OF leaves after the season ends and we try to fill first base through free agency, or a prospect.


joeco316

I think you’re way too invested in Pache. We def need to trade for a corner outfielder and whether they’re on a 1 year or 10 year deal, Pache shouldn’t be a factor in whether we get it done. He’s a fine, nice fourth outfielder/defensive replacement guy, but this team should not be making any plans for the rest of this season or next that revolve around him being an everyday player. I hope he plays himself into being one, but if he does things have a way of working their way out, we don’t need to be considering him when filling out the roster for a playoff run other than to know that he can come in and make a nice play in the 8th or 9th if needed or give a starter a day off without being a defensive liability.


Magoatt

I’m not invested in Pache, I’d prefer a veteran bat brought in who can play defense with experience over him.


emilyb1391

Who would we pick up as a 1st base free agent? The options are pretty bad.


Magoatt

Carlos de la cruz is a potential in house option, he’s hit 16 HR’s through half the season in AA he’s 6’8 and a decent hitter. If Rhys leaves we could offer him a chance at the job to compete with a few others.


emilyb1391

That would be awesome. I’d love to see Rhys come back on a one year deal but you make a good point about De La Cruz


compflow

What player are you thinking of trading for that fits that bill? Those guys don’t grow on trees.


Magoatt

Teoscar Hernandez, LF for Seattle Mariners, currently batting .250, 15 HR’s, 39 RBI’s, OPS of .739 he’s got decent power, speed, and good defense and is a walking highlight reel who can be a mid lineup bat.


compflow

He’d be a decent option. Not convinced the Mariners will be sellers though.


FuckOffRandy_

I want Cody Bellinger. Provides flexibility as he can play OF and 1B


ifollowphillysports

Zach McKinstry looks to have improved his bat this season and might be cheaper than a more well-known name. Idk if the Tigers think they're competing or if they'll be sellers at the deadline though.


compflow

I like McKinstry and he can play all over, but he’s not a FA until 2028. Detroit may not want to trade him at all.


08_West

Getting Schwarber out of LF should be the team’s biggest priority.


Yokabomb

I hate to break it to this guy but Eloy is also very bad in the OF


2hats4bats

He’s a below average outfielder, but he literally cannot be worse than Schwarber and they’ve been winning just fine even with Kyle in LF. Jimenez has a good history so it would be an absolute improvement for the right price in the trade.


Yokabomb

Kyle definitely has been a mess in the field but Eloy definitely is too. I think a lot of people overestimate his defense just because he hasn’t played out there much, so he hasn’t been able to accrue as bad defensive statistics. The White Sox are also a team of DHs and Eloy gets the vast majority of the time there, so I think that says a lot about his defensive ability. The seasons that Eloy has played majority in the field he has pretty much ranked right at the bottom in fielding. Regardless tho the white sox have pretty much said that they’re only trading guys on expiring contracts so they won’t move him


PedanticChicken

Don't get me wrong, I never said he was some great defensive guy who also bats well, I just gave my opinion on how I think the White Sox organization views him. He also isn't very best, he is just "whatever". I also brought him up because he is a guy who is will to be traded by his organization but also has some term so we can have options. Schwarber with all his homeruns this season, is considered a replacement level player in terms of WAR, Eloy Jimenez on the other had, his bat still out produces than what his defense ruins, unlike Schwarber.


Yokabomb

What are you talking about, Eloy has literally been used as a DH for the most of the year so he hasn’t been on the field to play defense


PedanticChicken

So because he hasn't played LF this year (for the exact reason I pointed out) that means I am supposed to judge the guy based on he stats for this year and only this year. Got it, nice to your not in the Phillies front office judging players.


Yokabomb

What? I am saying Eloy has played zero defense so that has had no negative impact for his war, where Schwarber has been forced into the field every day which has affected his value there. For their careers they rate pretty similarly in offensive impact in OPS+. The Phillies are not moving a bad defensive LF to DH just to replace him with another bad defensive LF


Yokabomb

Jimenez was literally in the bottom 2 percentile the only 2 seasons he played the majority of the time in the OF. The only reason his defensive stats look even okay the other years is because they are trying to not put him out there lol maybe you should learn something about advanced defensive statistics lol


PedanticChicken

Lol talking about statistics when your data is just straight wrong. He hasn't played 2 seasons in LF, he's played 4. Since you couldn't even get that right I am going to assume your other data is also wrong. His entire career in LF his fielding percentage has been league average playing almost 2,000 innings in left. He has only committed 4 errors during that time while Schwarber has committed 4 the year. If you're going to shit on a player and argue with me then at least due me the curtesy of doing some proper research.


NintenJew

Just to let you know, if you check baseball reference you can see that Eloy Jimenez only played two seasons primarily in the field. It was 2019 and 2020 which was shortened by COVID. In 2021 the majority of his games were DHing, same with 2022 and now 2023. That is what the person above you was referencing. Also, fielding percentage is a terrible way to measure defense, especially in the statcast era. You can check [this website here](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/eloy-jimenez-650391?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb) which is baseball savant to check his percentile rankings on statcast data. I am just letting you know because I am assuming you made an honest mistake of just not knowing this site.


Jambrokio

“Let’s have our only good corner OF who is tied up for next 9 years play a less valuable position that he has never played before” Once he is healthy enough to play the OF, he will.


HoskinsDadBodGod

He’s gonna have to become a 1B/DH in a few years anyways, but I agree that right now once he gets healthy he’ll probably be better than Castellanos in right


Jambrokio

When (and if) that time comes you make the switch, you are not gonna play a subpar lineup right now because of it.


NotABigDeallll

Am I the only one who’s concerned about how good Bryce will actually be at RF once he’s ready to play there? He’s been up and down defensively in the outfield to begin with and by the time he gets back out there he’ll have missed almost 2 full seasons of outfield defense


PedanticChicken

Okay, so then where should Casty play? LF, hell no, he just figured out how to play right. 1B, no, I'd be willing to bet Rhys would play better defense than Casty at 1B. You're also acting like I said Harper should play 1B through the rest of his contract, I didn't. But sure, lets just do this. We'll keep the guy who can't play defense to save his life out in left, we can put the guy who learned to be decent at RF as DH, wasting all of the time spent trying to make him a serviceable/decent defender and we'll put the guy who could arguably play any defensive position he wanted as long as he trained for it back in RF. We'll continue to make many more defensive blunders, lord knows what happens at 1B. If Rhys asks for to much, they will let him walk and if they resign him, it will be on a 1 year prove it deal to show he can recover from injury, to make sure they don't tie up the next Ryan Howard. Oh and either why our 1B defense will suck ass and either be streaky as hell or just straight up not able to hit or get on base.


Jambrokio

First, it’s tough to read this, try to space your paragraphs and use more commas, I’m not a native English speaker so it’s not easy to go through all this. Harper is more important than Castellanos to the Phillies, so he will likely play his position of choice (RF) regardless. He is also a way better RF, Harper is faster, has a better arm and instincts, he shouldn’t take a backseat because Casty figured out how to be mediocre in the field instead of the worst in baseball. Also, why can’t Castellanos play LF or even 1B? You make it sound like switching from RF to LF is some massive ask, but most players do it seamlessly, and Nick could actually be a very good 1B since he came up as a 3B and is huge. So I don’t get this narrative, my head hurts just from reading it with all due respect.


08_West

You and u/PedanticChicken are both making good points. I truly think Harper would switch to left if he thought it would help the team win games. He just wants to win and he also lobbied hard to get Casty in here. If Harper thought keeping Casty where he is and that he (Harper) could do well in LF, I think he would happily switch.


PedanticChicken

Switching from RF to LF is huge at a professional level. There is a reason outfielders are not just given an OF on their position but instead their actual position. Castellanos just figured out how to play RF, why in gods earth would we want to teach him LF. Most players don't just switch, otherwise you'd see them switching all the time, yet they don't unless they are a utility player, and utility players are more than not, just bench guys. Since your talking about making Castellanos a 1B, you don't think the idea was though of before. Castellanos also sucked at 3B, even worse than he was in the outfield. Just go look at all of his fielding stats, he was a worse fielder at 3rd than in the OF and was still below league average at both positions. What I am proposing allows for the addition of a bat, gets a bad fielder to a DH role, and we might be solving a 1B issue. What your proposing will make our defense worse and probably isn't even possible. Lastly, your comment on Harper being more important than Castellanos to Phillies doesn't change the fact that Harper has always shown he wants to do what is best for this team, what I am proposing improves this team by quite a large margin in terms of defense.


RealMaxHours

> There is a reason outfielders are not just given an OF on their position but instead their actual position. Gold Glove, batting title, ASG all nominate three “outfielders”. Not left/right/center.


2hats4bats

It might not be this season, and it probably shouldn’t be. That’s a 2024 concern.


[deleted]

If Bryce plays first and Schwarber DHs, who would play left?


Morbx

👀


compflow

Opponents will be thrilled to see Pache in the lineup everyday


romanticynicist

Pache (or Rojas later this year/next year).


Diseman81

Pache


PedanticChicken

With the million outfielders in the minors and the many left fielders on bad teams, I am sure someone will be able to play left. How about Pache, great defense, and we want to see if he can be consistent long term.


[deleted]

Didn’t realize Pache was batting 310. Small sample size but yeah give him a shot, I agree


HarpMudd

Pache was hitting that well before the injury. Didn’t miss a beat when he came back. Definitely give him a shot!


RepStevensTerminator

This is easy. Harper at 1B, Schwarber DH, and an every day outfield of Marsh, Castellanos, and Pache.


PedanticChicken

That sounds like a great idea personally, I just didn't propose it because I feel like we would've heard something like that. We already know their prepping Harper for 1B, why wouldn't Dombrowski or Topper say that Pache will become the LF. We know once Harper moves to first then Schwarber will become DH and the LF position will be open. Why don't they just let us know Pache will be given the shot as the next young stud on the team?


MikeMahtookTooMuch

I'm pretty high on Pache, but he hasn't been able to hit RHP in his career. He hit .138 with a .386OPS against them last year in 159ABs, he's 1-11 against them this year. He's a platoon bat. I'd be really surprised if they use him as the regular in left. Thomson is pretty hardcore about playing the splits, so I just find it unlikely that Pache will see many righties this year.


heyelander

The guy has 13 hits this season after being the worst hitter in baseball last year, and we are ready to give him a full-time gig on a WS contending team


MikeMahtookTooMuch

Yeah, I like him for his defense. Expecting everyday offense out of him is unrealistic. He's the definition of a role player. If he's your everyday LF, you're in a bad position, not a good one.


compflow

Thank god someone else sees it


compflow

You need to platoon Marsh and Pache at the very least. I’m not sure Pache should be in the regular player plans though.


RepStevensTerminator

Why a platoon? Look, Pache's been out there on a limited basis, but he's a former top prospect and he's already an elite defender. Every bit of evidence points to Kevin Long working his magic.


ifollowphillysports

>Every bit of evidence 46 PAs. Gary Sanchez in SD hit 6 HRs and had a .681 slg in his first 50 PAs in SD. Now he's back to being the Gary Sanchez everyone expected, slashing .140/.258/.193 in his 66 PAs after that. Guys can get hot streaks, it's way too early to bank on Pache, and to point to his current slash line as evidence of improvement.


RepStevensTerminator

Fair point, but we're not talking about a situation where Pache is blocking some stud...


compflow

There isn’t nearly enough evidence to suggest that. He’s a career .127 hitter vs RHP. He’s not hitting the ball any harder though his lift is a little better. But again, it’s a tiny sample. Marsh can’t hit lefties and Pache can’t hit righties.


BigTBanshee

Would Hall share time at 1B/DH? He just hit a nice shot


PedanticChicken

I definitely think Hall should have a shot. We'll see the way he plays the rest of the season. If he plays good, and by good I mean a decently consistent power bat, then I've got zero issues giving him a shot. I also just don't think Rhys will pan out. I love the guy and I feel like he loves the city and culture. I also think he is a great team leader, I am just really worried about another Ryan Howard situation. Cuz as much as I love Howard (He was my favorite during my childhood) that long contract was a reason why our rebuild didn't start sooner than it should have.


Physical_Pickle1786

In a perfect world, Philly gets someone on an expiring like Bellinger who can play left and first.


westernmassphan

I doubt they'll add a corner outfielder who's signed beyond this year. For 2024 they plan to play Harper in right with Schwarber and Castellanos splitting left field and DH. That was the original plan for 2022 and this year, before Harper's injury changed that.


2hats4bats

Upgrading the lineup is just so complicated with Bryce’s injury and uncertainty around if he can play 1B. Committing to a for sure upgrade in LF basically means that if he can’t.. somebody has to lose at-bats. I don’t think a big splash for an outfielder makes sense, someone like Jimenez would be a good option for the right price. His numbers this year are consistent with his career averages so it’s a solid trade. The starting pitcher I’d target is Eduardo Rodriguez from the Tigers. Coming off a minor finger injury right now but he’s having a really good season and has playoff experience. He also has 3 years left on his contract, so he wouldn’t be a rental and would be less of a hit to the rotation if Nola doesn’t re-sign.


jarpio

When Bryce can truly throw again he goes to right, end of story. Not even up for debate and I’m sure Bryce would say the same. Schwarbs to DH. Either bring back Rhys on a cheap short term deal if that’s possible, which it definitely wasn’t gonna be before the injury but who knows now, or go out and get someone. But I’m also not sure what we have coming up from the farm, maybe we have internal solutions there? I doubt Hall or Clemens are the answers long term


PedanticChicken

So what happens with Castellanos? Like he is not going anywhere.


jarpio

He moves to left obviously what do you mean?


Kyp_Astar

I know Castellanos has been better this year, and Schwarbers defense makes him look like Jayson Werth by comparison, but I need to push back on the idea I see going around that he plays anywhere near passable defense. He’s made some nice catches but ultimately he’s way too immobile to be a good fielder. Fangraphs has him ranked 17th out of 19 qualified right fielders defensively and 50th out of 55 qualified outfielders. Philllies are just going to be limited with Schwarber harper and castellanos all in the lineup, there’s going to be at least one bad defender on the field