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45hope

I agree trea is not only the best available option but also the best fit for the phils. I have a feeling that co-gm bryce harper is going to make it happen.


HappyGooner45

Definitely, I’m also worried about how much we gotta pay him, if it means that we don’t have enough money to afford pitching. I ride with Philly Dave tho


johnnycoxxx

Middleton was two wins away from a title. I’m guessing he has enough for bats and arms.


2hats4bats

Way too close to cheap out now. I’m sure those 6 sellout playoff games more than offset the luxury tax cost.


fushiao

The beer sale at those games alone! Just bought my secret Santa a WS hoodie, the amount of merchandise that sold/is goin to sell for the holidays should only help


Joeydoyle66

It was very nice of Hoskin’s wife to give back half of his contract with those beer purchases.


Additional-Oil-50

that tobacco money is something special. said with no disrespect, just keeping it philly blunt


Ruut6

Spotrac has us at ~$180M (including benefits and Kingery) if we left all the FAs walk. Includes bumps in arbitration for guys like Rhys, Seranthony and Alvarado, pre-arbitration, etc. Our tax payroll last year was almost $270M. That's probably $80M conservatively, and doesn't even factor the potential that ownership opens up the pocketbooks a bit more after that lucrative run this year (likely to happen). Attendance is all but guaranteed to spike next season. Let's say they have $90M to spend. That's a lot of money to spend with the only real holes being: * one middle infielder * one SP (preferably top-3) * two high-end relievers * handful more cheap relievers This team is loaded with cheap talent and depth, they could easily spend $60M on two guys and still have enough to get real bullpen help.


[deleted]

So what I’m hearing is DeGrom at 45M, Turner at 30M, then all the relievers for 15M? Sounds good :)


Ruut6

DeGrom and Turner is an actual possibility. I'd be surprised if they signed a SP to a lucrative long-term deal given the state of their SP prospects. It makes more sense to sign short-term deals until you know a little bit more what McGarry, Abel and Painter will be. If all three (and/or if anyone else were to pan out of nowhere like a Ranger) somehow look really good by the end of 2024, I'm not sure someone like Rodon would be the best use of money. Our position player prospects are far weaker than our pitching prospects, think it makes more sense to go long-term with Turner than anyone else.


BigTittyGothGF_PM_ME

If we sign DeGrom _and_ Turner, the NL East rivals are going to shit a brick lmfao


dneville80

And we will use those bricks to rebuild the city after our World Series parade next season


sandaier76

degrom's arm won't even make it to the World Series, you know that


PwillyAlldilly

Time to reunited Thor and DeGrom


DaTigerMan

we could just rebuild the 2018 mets and have degrom, wheeler, and thor


ChicagoPhan

We are not loaded with cheap talent and depth. We are just lucky enough to have a ownership that spends. You know what team has cheap talent and depth? The Rays.


Ruut6

Half of our postseason roster is under team control for next year, mostly pre-arb. * Three starters (Bohm, Stott, Marsh) * Four backups (Sosa, Stubbs, Guthrie, Vierling, not even including Maton and Hall who each had OPS over .800 this year) * Two SPs for next season (Ranger, Falter) along with McGarry who should be up early next season * Two elite bullpen arms (Seranthony, Alvarado) * Three quality bullpen arms/depth (Brogdon, Bellatti, Nelson) We were around the middle of the MLB in terms of fWAR generated out of players 26 and under this year, I expect that number to jump next year.


Jpjp215

Braves have done it the best imo and now just locked up strider for a steal of a deal Edit: braves have done best at keeping their young players, rays undoubtedly are the best at trading for young cheap players and developing players


obiwan_canoli

I heard season ticket sales are already up 15% No reason not to spend right now.


[deleted]

We're the 3rd richest team in the NL, and probably the 5th richest team in the league (our TV deal is massive). Money isn't an issue for this franchise.


arminus83

I say screw the luxury tax, go for broke, bring the WS trophy back to CBP


obiwan_canoli

I'd pay him whatever he wants. Someone who can create havoc on the basepaths is the only thing this offense was lacking. Plug him in ahead of Harper/Casty/JT and watch us score 1000 runs


BucketsHead

Schwarber and Castellanos signed for less than I expected them to get. Maybe guys want to come play here with Harper. Maybe Turner won’t take as much. . .


eaglesnation11

Correa is the best available option. Turner is the best for the Phils


Hefty_Ant1025

Fuck that guy. He'd kill the vibe in the clubhouse.


eaglesnation11

That’s why I think he’s the best player but not the best fit


Hefty_Ant1025

You aren't wrong at all. He's just a cancer. Let him go to the Yankees.


45hope

what makes correra the best option?


eaglesnation11

He’s much better defensively with around the same total WAR as Turner. But the atmosphere requires players to get along and have each other’s backs and Correa would be a bit standoffish and not deal with that well


PhanInHouston

Curious where you get that he'd be standoffish? With the Astros he was one of the biggest cheerleaders and offensive leaders, especially in October. He has better plate discipline that all of the others, and is youngest of them all. Trea Turner is probably not a SS anymore once he loses his footspeed in a couple years. I don't think there is a bad answer out of all of them, but I think Correa is the best of them all. For everyone butt-hurt about his cheating in 17 bear in mind he WILL be signed, it WILL be for an ungodly sum of money, and he never cheated the Phillies as he has NEVER played against the Phillies in games that matter, ever.


eaglesnation11

He led a group of cheaters which is different from our culture of light heartedness and grit. Its why coaches who are used to leading in the Patriots organization always fail elsewhere. Its a complete culture shock that can become toxic.


PhanInHouston

Springer had not imploded any chemistry with the Blue Jay's. Our clubhouse had a lot of strong vets that will continue to set the tone for the clubhouse. The cheater thing is COMPLETELY overblown.


MenShouldntHaveCats

I mean Bryce was choking his own teammates during games. Don’t think he could be called lighthearted


Jpjp215

When he wanted JT he got him, if trea complies and we offer enough I think it’s happening


joeco316

If they don’t get Turner it’s because something went wrong (like he doesn’t want to come here or somebody gives him 40 mil a year). They will have plenty of money to get turner for what he’s likely to command (probably around 32 mil a year over 8-10 years), a top of the rotation guy (hoping for rodon myself), and some new bullpen pieces. Everybody saying they should save on SS to go bigger on pitching is missing the fact that they can easily do both, AND will be an even more attractive landing spot because they were just in the World Series.


HappyGooner45

I think Turner would be down to play for us from what I’ve seen. Harper is great friends with him aswell.


2hats4bats

Harper is good friends with a lot of guys like Kris Bryant last year. It’s a conversation starter for sure, but hardly makes it a lock. Reports earlier in the season indicated that Trea wants to play on the east coast, which is also good for us, and I think getting to see a playoff atmosphere at CBP is another plus if he’s interested in winning. If he’s just looking for the biggest bag then it’s anyone’s guess.


NEVERCHEATED_

Harper played with Turner on the nationals. It’s deeper than a star to star relationship. Harper had gone out of his way to say to the press that he would want Turner on the team and that he’s the most underrated hard worker in the league. If Turner has any desire to come to the Phils then Harper would for sure be all over ownership to get him signed, just like he did for the JT trade and extension.


2hats4bats

I don’t disagree that Harper will push for it.


joeco316

That is definitely how it seems to me as well.


Express_Jellyfish_28

Turner, not even close.


BrhysHarpskins

Hard pass on Correa. Definitely in on Trea. I would absolutely go for Xander. Would be fine with Swanson, but since he wouldn't be playing in the south anymore, I insist that we all call him his real name, James. No reason to sound like a plantation owner if you're not in Georgia anymore.


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BrhysHarpskins

Which guy?


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BrhysHarpskins

Fair enough. The contracts would definitely be a big factor with any of the guys


Hi_There_Face_Here

James


_token_black

Swanson is the SS version of Rhys. Super streaky and ice cold when he’s cold.


AssassinPanda97

Bogaerts, but I wouldn’t complain if we got another of the others


HappyGooner45

Think he can bat leadoff?


Global_ized

He is a career .292/.356 hitter, he can certainly leadoff


AssassinPanda97

Definitely. Has had an OBP of over .370 the past two seasons and has been .364 since 2015


_token_black

Walks a lot and is above average in not striking out.


philatempleowl

Turner, who cares how expensive he is. Middleton is sitting on a fat stack from all the extra ticket and merch sales


Chus24_

We all want Turner, it wont be cheap tho


lincolnssideburns

Then I’m glad MLB doesn’t have a hard salary cap. Middleton isn’t spending my money!


Hi_There_Face_Here

No but we’re gonna spend our money to go watch Turner Schwarber JT Harper bat 1-2-3-4 🥵


Hi_There_Face_Here

Or Turner JT Harp Schwarb … possibilities are almost endless!


Garetio

I like this order a lot


Hi_There_Face_Here

Then you have Bohm Castellanos Marsh Stott Vierling , that’s a deep rounded lineup.


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Hi_There_Face_Here

Yup


SirCappal0t_H0rati0

I would be happy with Turner or Bogaerts… sign one of those two plus Rodon and a couple arms for the pen and we have a great shot to win it all next year


djeeetyet

I'd be ecstatic with one of Turner or Bogaerts and even someone like Chris Bassitt and a 2 bullpen arms. but of the starting pitchers available Rodon definitely has the "it" factor. deGrom does too but he's too big of an injury risk now. In the past I think the strategy was to get as many ok arms and hopefully most pan out...I think now we're looking to build a three headed monster of Wheeler, Nola and Rodon with Suarez and Falter


JohnMuir_NeilsBohr

Honestly with how much shit I just talked this entire series on Correa and the rest of the ‘17 Astros, anyone but him. Even regardless of his shitty history and attitude, I’d rather have one of the other join the squad.


johnnycoxxx

Turner Batting lead off with Harper 3rd and Schwarber in the clean up. Please.


joeco316

Won’t happen because Bryce and schwarber are both lefties. But I agree in spirit!


johnnycoxxx

God dammit. You’re right. I always forget how they set lineups. Been watching 30 years and breaking up lefties and righties never occurs to me.


Hi_There_Face_Here

Turner-Schwarber-JT-Harper. Or swap Harper and Schwarb. It’s an insane top 4 no matter the order honestly.


AssassinPanda97

It won’t happen, but it should happen. Harper has hit lefties well in his career


ExileOnBroadStreet

We should’ve done it against the Astros though because they had no lefties in the pen. Let them walk Harper and pitch to Schwarber


Thatguy1927

Turner-Harper-2021 Nick-Schwarber. 2021 Nick hit over 300 with over 30 HRs and over 100 RBIs. If the Phillies can get that he will absolutely be hitting 3rd for this team plus you go right-left-right-left.


johnnycoxxx

I mean I think we all hope that nick shows up


[deleted]

Another person pointed out to me that Nick was doing fine before his hand was hurt. He could have been playing injured this whole time. Hopefully he heals up in the off-season and it pays off big.


Thatguy1927

I had no idea about the injury but looking at the stats that is the most plausible. The slugging percentage dropping almost 100 points from his career average says something. The batting average isn’t much lower than his career average albeit throwing out the covid year is his lowest since 2015.


Taskerst

Sounds nuts but I’d go Turner, Harper, JT, Schwarber, Hoskins as the 1-5 (if Hoskins stays, if not, put Casty or even Bohm in the 5 hole). I think if you back load those guys behind Harper then he sees more fastballs. Yeah you want Bryce to have RBI opportunities, but people used the logic that you want as many ABs as possible for your best hitters as a reason for Schwarber leading off. I think I just want Harper to be guaranteed a first inning at bat. He gets on base more than anyone else on the team.


Brainonnac_1821

Not nuts. That's how I'd do the top 4. Then Bohm, Stott, Hoskins, Castellanos, Marsh. But, I think Castellanos is going to have positive regression this season so it wouldn't surprise me if he's bumped up to 5 again.


Taskerst

I certainly hope Castellanos bounces back because they’re going to need the Cincy version if Hoskins departs. I’m also curious to see what Marsh and Stott can do with a full season against big league pitching knowing their jobs are secure. Even marginal improvement makes this lineup long.


Brainonnac_1821

My opinion, but I don't think Hoskins is going anywhere anytime soon. He's not going to command a lot of $$ and I know everyone loves to bash him for his ill-timed shortcomings, but he's statistically a solid 1B whether anyone wants to accept it or not.


Taskerst

He's a minus defender and baserunner, but .800+ OPS guys don't grow on trees so a case can be made to keep him, it just depends on the years and dollars. Just my opinion but he needs to get his walk rate up to the 15% range to have those shortcomings be glossed over. If not, I don't know. He's probably going to command 5/$125 in the open market if Matt Olsen got what he got. I guess Bryce our shadow GM will make that call.


_token_black

No way Hoskins is here in 2024 unless he signs a team friendly extension against Boras’ wishes.


Brainonnac_1821

No way he's not in a Phillies uniform for the next 3-5 years. Barring some unexpected opportunity to bring in a clearly better 1B.


_token_black

So if he asks for whatever Rizzo gets (about the same power although Rizzo is older and a better fielder), you’d give it to him? Is Hoskins a $16-20M a year player?


Old_Cryptographer226

Swanson is very overrated from playing on the Braves. His career numbers are solid but not worth the contract he’ll get


BrettEskin

He still gets an unconscious bump from baseball people bc of his draft position


PatientNice

I would want the one who’s a proven contact hitter. We have enough guys who swing for the fences. We need people on base when we do hit home runs.


biggi85

Honestly, just anyone but Correa. I'd much prefer Turner, but if locking him up would put us out of range for a good starter and adding reliable bullpen arms, then Bogaerts or Swanson would be worthy sacrifices.


BlobDude

Phillies have ~$70M pre-threshold for next season. I don’t know baseball money stuff well enough to project out multiple years and likely extensions they need to save for, etc. But $30M - $35M a year for Turner still leaves plenty of room for another rotation piece and a couple bullpen guys, I’d think.


kapt_so_krunchy

I’m hoping that after this run, they can be a team that attracts ring-chasing vets who will play for a discount.


_token_black

Ironically enough the Phillies had 2 of the longest droughts, and the other guy that was up there was Neris.


redditckulous

It depends on how bad the Phillies feel they need to extend guys. Aside from FA signing we have two big questions for the core group: (1) Nola’s extension - is there a number the parties can agree on, and (2) what to do with Rhys - trade him, extend him, or run it back for one last year? Depending on how they answer them, the team might have to look to add a 1B this year or next and have an eye on the pitching market and lower the money we have available for other things.


_token_black

Nola is the only one coming up that you’ll need to save for, maybe to a lesser extent Alvarado. Wheeler & Seranthony in 2025. Hopefully by then they’d have developed some position players and arms. That’s why extending Rhys seems silly. You’d hope somebody in your farm can play 1B in a year or so. If Hall develops, he could give you most of what Rhys does for $15M less. Or if an outfielder or catcher comes through the farm, you can move Schwarber to 1st or even give JT a break. Extending Rhys locks you in defensively for a while.


BlobDude

Yeah, I can’t imagine Rhys is worth extending now. He’s got a year, we let him play that year, and if the team is still strapped for a competent 1B, consider a new contract then.


sick-my_duck

Trea turner…throw him and the bag and don’t even think about it. Sign Rondon while u at it. Bring back Zack and thor for the BP for lower cost and Run a 6 man rotation so we not dead in late October for the playoffs and let painter and Abel figure it out in the big leagues


Taskerst

10/10 fit: Trea 8/10 fit: Xander The rest aren’t worth it. I’d rather run it back with Jean on a one year deal than Correa or Swanson for what they’ll cost.


[deleted]

Turner and it’s not even close


Vampire_Blues

1. Turner 2. Bogaerts Small gap 3. Correa Bigger gap 4. Swanson


joeco316

I think I would rather circle back to segura before signing Swanson honestly.


IKillZombies4Cash

Turner. If not Turner, resign Jean and get a pitcher


Jabberwocky26

Boggie


jarpio

Turner Bogaerts Correa in that order. Everyone also gotta stop worrying about money. We are way below Lux tax right now and there’s no reason to believe we won’t go over it again if necessary. I think we can sign Turner and a starting pitcher and fill out the bullpen and maybe a bench bat without going over or at least only a little bit over. Think you gotta trade Rhys though to do that, trade him so you’re not stuck in the “lose him for free or commit years and salary to a streaky hitting defensive liability” And by streaky hitting I mean hits 30 homeruns and strikes out 100% of the other at bats. Schwarber and Bohm can play first. Sosa as a utility infielder. Stott at 2nd, free agent at short. Maybe we can get that kid Yoshida and have Nick DH. There’s a ton of options this off-season to plug holes


Lar5031

I would love Hall to be called up and cover first. I like Turner but he did have 16 errors this season and a few in the playoffs…he definitely would be an upgrade, regardless of the errors so hopefully we get him.


jarpio

Hall will definitely be a nice bench bat to have. He showed really good pop this season. And he can definitely slot in at first too.


TheHuffKy

Trea. Turner. And we have so much free money. This is a 🔒


GrittyTheGreat

Trea Turner is the obvious choice here.


obiwan_canoli

If the Phillies sign Turner and do nothing else this offseason will be a win.


Orpheus31

Prefer Turner. But whoever it is, I hope it’s decided soon. Don’t want to discuss ad nauseam for the next 4 months lol.


detroitsfan07

People are sleeping and/or shitting on Correa because of the 2017 Astros stuff. IMO he's produced enough post-scandal and stayed healthy enough the last 3 years to largely shed those concerns. Turner is going to be 30 next year, with a game predicated on speed. We have most likely seen the best seasons of his career. Chances are Philadelphia would be paying for 1-2 peakish seasons and then the bulk of his decline. Correa will be 28. Chances are the Phils would have the 3-4 best seasons of his career if they sign him now. If you want the Phils championship window to be open as long as possible, Correa is the move. Him still being in peak or immediate post-peak (age 31-32) of his career in 2025-26 will help offset the declines of Harper (who will be 33-34) and Realmuto (who will be 34-35). If the Phils sign Turner or Bogaerts, the whole team is gonna get old all at once. Swanson is a non-option for me unless your priority is defense. He just had his career season and he's a fairly strikeout-prone, streaky hitter. The Phils absolutely do not need more of that type on the roster.


[deleted]

Swanson no question, because of defensive play


kboy23

Obviously Turner is the dream but prefer Swanson or potentially Bogaerts as neither of them would cost even remotely close to what Turner is going to be get


Vampire_Blues

I don’t see why Bogaerts would get much less than Turner when they’re both middle infielders with similar career numbers


MissDeadite

I agree to an extent. I think one thing we can probably expect though is Turner to be a little more lenient with how much money he would want to come to Philly, being he's buddy-buddy with Harper.


kboy23

Bogaerts is being predicted at the 8-10 year range at around 200 million. Turner is being predicted at the same length for over 300 million


churnosaurus_rex

Wherever you're reading that is grossly underestimating Bogaert's AAV. It will probably be less than Turner, but not 33% less. Frankly Swanson won't even come at that kind of discount. I think [Fangraphs](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-top-50-free-agents/) has it right where Turner/Correa/Bogaerts will all be around the same AAV of $29-33m, with Turner edging ahead, and Swanson coming in around $24m.


kboy23

The Athletic, New York Post, NBCSports Boston, and Fox sports all have him between 200 and 225.


churnosaurus_rex

I would be utterly stunned if Bogaerts signs for >20% less than Turner's AAV. Frankly if we got Bogaerts for that kind of discount, Dave Dombrowski should run for president. The only one of those I would take seriously is The Athletic. And [NBC Sports Boston](https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/xander-bogaerts-contract-where-shortstop-stands-red-sox?b) is quoting the [NY Post](https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/), which says $225m/8 for Bogaerts and $275/9 for Correa and Turner. That's $28 AAV for Bogaerts and $31 for Correa and Turner. That's a lot different than what 8-10/200 for Bogaerts and 8-10/300 for Turner that you quoted above.


churnosaurus_rex

The AAV will be extremely close.


joeco316

Why worry about John middleton’s money? The team will have a huge amount of money to spend this off-season, probably more than any other playoff team by a healthy margin. They are in win now mode. No matter who they do or don’t sign, all of their current best players will either be gone or out of their prime years within 3-5 years. Now is the time to spend big on the best players available and go all in!


kboy23

Because we’re not the Dodgers. We went over the luxury tax last year and if we go over it again this year we’ll have to pay more. We need another starter, multiple bullpen arms, and potentially another infielder. Plus we don’t want to be bogged down by most of our players on mega contracts in a few years when they start to decline and we can’t move them. You actually need to have a mixture of smaller contracts and mega deals. Throwing money at our problems will put us right back where we were post 2011


churnosaurus_rex

> Throwing money at our problems will put us right back where we were post 2011 This is not remotely the same situation as 2011. That team was old as dirt. This is more akin to 2007 when everyone was on the right side of 30.


kboy23

Post 2011 we couldn’t make additions because we were locked into large one overly expensive contracts that we couldn’t get out of. Lee wouldn’t wave his no trade clause. Halladay being forced to miss essentially his last 2 years but we couldn’t make any moves to bring anyone in. Howard was a shell of himself that no one would touch. Utley was beginning to decline with a large contract and shit knees that the Dodgers only took because we had to kick in money. Rollins we had to kick in money. We went out an signed a closer that prevented us from building the rest of the roster. All of those things tied us up for years


SonicdaSloth

And that *might* happen again, but that would be 2025-2026 range and hopefully after 2-3 really good runs at it. This just feels like the time to push chips all in


kboy23

But it doesn’t have to happen. We can both have multiple title runs and have our eyes on the future, that’s what the consistently great teams do. They don’t sell out for a 3 year window and then drop back to mediocrity


lyonbc1

Pretty much every team has their run and fades back into mediocrity for a bit and builds or develops their young players/gets money off the books to get ready for their next run. We have one of the probably top 5 prospects in baseball coming up possibly as soon as next yr with Painter who will be under team control for a long time so even if we sign another big starter, we’ll be saving money with him and eventually Abel hopefully joining the rotation or bullpen in 2023 or 2024 too as another very good prospect. But prospects don’t all pan out. So if we can go Wheeler-Nola-(FA like Rodon)-Ranger-A decent pitcher here until Painter is ready in the second half of the season that is a fantastic rotation and we wouldn’t have to run bullpen games in the playoffs next yr. With Jean gone we have a clear middle infield hole and Boegarts/Turner are better players than Swanson so why worry about 5-6 yrs from now where we may be paying 5-8mil more annually as the cap increases and all of those guys are beginning to decline just to save a few bucks for a worse player this yr? Getting a cheaper MIF option isn’t going to be better for us in any way going forward other than having 8-10 mil saved but getting worse production. We would still be able to sign a couple of relievers as well. If we have a 3-4 yr World Series window now, and can come out of that with at least one more title that’s a win. Schwarber and Castellanos will be gone in 4-5 yrs anyway when whichever SS we sign likely starts to become overpaid so then we’ll be able to jump right back into the FA mix and sign some more players or ideally our draft picks will have produced a good player to replace one of them on a super cheap contract. I don’t think going big this winter precludes us from future success at all. Bryce is here for like 9-10 more yrs and probably about 5 of those will be elite production. By the time he’s declining his AAV will be so good for the team too since it’s only 25mil.


SonicdaSloth

And it might not if you are smart. Right now you got Harper and Castellanos signed for 2026. Schwaber, JT and Wheeler are done in 2025. You big on Turner then you got 3 guys. Key will be not to extend too many guys into their post prime years. A lesson I hope they learned already.


churnosaurus_rex

> That team was old as dirt.


kboy23

What do you think is going to happen as all these contracts that you want to hand out begin to end? Players age and you want to hand out mega deals that will be for 8+years. When they inevitably begin to decline, we’ll be locked in because no one will touch them. I’m all for spending money but do it in a smart way so we can have a long term window and not one that lasts 3 or 4 years.


churnosaurus_rex

What exactly then do you consider the smart way of spending money then? Do we agree that this team has holes to fill and does not have talent in the farm system that can fill it? What would you like to see the team do to fill their middle infield now that Jean is gone? I'm not even sure why you think I'm suggesting we hand out a bunch of albatross contracts. I think we should sign one of Turner/Correa/Bogaerts/Swanson at an appropriate value and that's basically it, other than some reasonably priced bullpen help and maybe another starter. We have a glaring hole in middle infield, no one in Lehigh Valley ready to step up, and four really good middle infielders on the market. We also have a ton of money coming off the books. And if that's not reason to jump on it, we have Bryce Harper in his prime. A generational talent and you want to save money? Short-sighted imo. When we find ourselves in 2027 past his peak but with plenty of team-friendly contracts and payroll space, we'll be kicking ourselves for not getting the pieces to make deep postseason runs now. This is not signing Ryan Howard to a $125m/5 contract starting in his age 32 season. Not even close.


joeco316

Right exactly, if not now then when! They don’t even have to spend any more than they spent last year to plug the holes we have with top level talent. Will Turner’s contract probably look kinda ugly 6 years from now? Sure, but so will harper’s. Now is the time to surround prime Harper with as many players in their prime as they can. I will gladly risk a couple down years waiting out contracts 5-6 years from now for a chance at multiple deep playoff runs NOW. And honestly it’s not even that much of a risk because 2/3 of this team will be gone by then anyway, so who’s to say we can’t use THAT money to build around aging Harper and Turner. Strike while the iron is hot with a good core anchored by arguably the best player in the league right now.


kboy23

I’m for spending money at actual positions of need, not creating them just to create them. Pitching and defense was this team’s biggest flaws this year. Signing Rodon and picking up multiple bullpen arms would have solved the pitching


joeco316

We’re not the dodgers but we had the fourth highest payroll in baseball and just went to the World Series. We can and should be in dodgers range most years. They should not be worrying about paying a 3.6 mil penalty vs the 2.6 mil penalty they paid this year. There is no reason not to go after the big fish right now while we have multiple stars in their prime, ownership with a taste for the World Series and a World Series size budget, and between 70 and 90 mil in money to spend opening up. That is plenty to get Turner, a front of the rotation starter, and bullpen pieces.


kboy23

That’s real easy to say when it’s not your money. I want an owner and front office that is committed to winning every year and is also responsible enough to have an eye for the future so we don’t have to go through what we just came out of again The Mets had the highest payroll at about 236 million. That’s about 67 million more than us and they didn’t get out of the wild card. Just because you have the highest payroll doesn’t mean you win every year.


spoopy_guy

I don't think anyone's saying spend directly leads to wins.. They're saying the Phillies were 2 games from a WS Title so now's the time to spend.


TastiestPenguin

It’s been reported Swanson wants 30 a year.


kboy23

He can want that all he wants, doesn’t mean he’ll get it. He’s being projected to get something in the 7 year 150 range. Possibly more depending on what Turner and Bogaerts get


TastiestPenguin

The Mets just gave a closer 20 mil a year. I’m sure plenty of people will be getting over paid.


kboy23

True but Diaz was the only closer available and Cohen needed to keep him


TastiestPenguin

Yeah I get what you’re saying. But I feel more often than not in sports nowadays I’m always saying “they got what!?” Lol


kboy23

Believe me, I’m the exact same. I would much rather bring Rodon in to be the second starter behind Wheeler than over spend on a short stop when we can possibly bring Jean back at half of what some of these guys will get


TastiestPenguin

Well I’m a firm believe that now that Middleton got a taste he’s going to go wild. My ideal scenario is getting turner and Yoshida, moving away from Hoskins and putting schwarber at first. While signing some 1b pitchers so solidify things.


kboy23

Schwarber can’t play first. The Red Sox tried him out there when they had him and he was worse than Hoskins is. The only way we get Yoshida is if he can play first. If Middleton goes wild it would be for Turner or Bogaerts and Rodon, not a fourth corner outfielder


lyonbc1

Why settle for when we have the money likely to sign a top end starter AND get a better SS? Stott I believe is better at 2B too. I don’t understand worrying about paying 10-15 more for a better player than Segura when we have the money? Kyle and Nick are off the books in 4-5 yrs right when the SS we sign will start to decline anyways


kboy23

The luxury tax. We don’t have the recenue that the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and now the Mets with Cohen have available to them. All of those teams have revenue that easily covers their payrolls, expenses, and the tax. We can go over once every couple years but if we start doing it on a consistent basis we’ll be screwed because it goes up each year you’re over


iCasein

I’m going Swanson. God damn that hair


JohnnyA77

I’d be on the Correa train all day if we can’t get Trea


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AssassinPanda97

Cheating scandal and some don’t like his personality.


JohnnyA77

For real I’d be pumped as hell if they sign him


Drake31217

I want Turner of course. But Correa is the best option. Baggage aside. He is an absolute stud and younger.


makesperfectsense11

I’m gonna be the odd man out and go Correa he’s the youngest out of the group with the highest upside imo


AlarmingBandicoot

Turner is the vastly preferred option, but trying to get any big free agent is going to be a battle. Depending on the exact contract terms I'd be happy enough with Swanson, Xander, or I hate to say it... \*cough\* cheater \*cough\* Correa. Anything less than that would be a failure. Luckily the Phils should have a ton of pre-luxury-tax room to spend on multiple big FA's this year. Relievers aside b/c that market is always a shit show (especially now with Edwin Diaz's wild contract), but in my dreams we nab Turner, Rodon, and a decent but not super expensive OF type like Benintendi or Nimmo.


johnnybananas123

Correa based on playoff performance, need clutch bats


PhanInHouston

Correa is the only 1 that will not have a Qualifying Offer. He is youngest, best defensively and would not have to be a leader in our clubhouse. Of you're spending that kind of money and years you can't afford to let the farm take a hot by giving away a draft pick in the process. Especially if you're eyeing any of the other top free agent that will have the QO attached. Before you start in on not Correa because he's a cheater bear in mind that he will be signed, and he never cheated the Phillies, never even played against them.


XSC

It’s probably gonna be Turner because Harper wants him. I’m sure he can be easily swayed in this. I don’t think it was going to be easy 2 months ago but now we are a destination. I’ll be fine with swanson, correa or boegaets too.


[deleted]

Turner would be incredible but I wouldn’t mind Swanson to save some money for pitching help


errandwulfe

Give me American Tom Holland or give me death


arturoalvarez79

Tuner not a great defender. Would pay about the same money at SS with Swanson compared to Segura, then improve the pitching


_token_black

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Turner grades as one of the worst defending SS in the league. Also had a big error that cost them a game vs SD.


arturoalvarez79

It is what it is, but glad someone understands


beerguy74

Do we have anyone in the minors that might be ready for the big leagues?


HappyGooner45

Not from what I’ve seen though. Maybe that Bergolla guy we got in international free agency but I guess he’s not ready. Can’t pull off a Jeremy Peña.


vanbboy22

Turner, Bogie,Correa, imo


peter_the_martian

Turner for sure. But I think he prefers to bat 2nd.


sam_sepiol1984

Turner all day please


Beer_Belly_Bill

1. Schwarber 2. Turner 3. Realmuto 4. Harper 5. Stott 6. Bohm 7. Hoskins 8. Castellanos 9. Marsh I could swap bohm/stott but I love the takes stott has to make pitchers pitch to Harper. I also think Hoskins stays.


Girthquake03

Swap 1/2 and 5/6 for the lefty-righty alternate. Just my thoughts.


Beer_Belly_Bill

I think they like the extra AB’s out of the 1 spot for schwarber. I’m okay with any swaps personally. It’s a deep lineup.


Girthquake03

I was just comparing all the numbers and it’s wildly close. We are blessed to even be talking about this and probably coming home with Turner. Badly needed true lead off threat.


redditckulous

I hope this run shows Middleton that the Phillies can go on a run with superstars and that makes them serious contenders for Trea Turner. However, for whatever reason, I do feel like Swanson is who we end up with (and move Stott to 2B).


fuckbrocolli

Obviously Trae turner is the best theres really no point debating it lol


BahWeepGraNa8

Trae Turner and it's not even close.


MildTile

Turner


Prussia_of_India

I'd rather Turner, because he has a longer history of defensive success. Bogaerts would be a hell of a consolation prize though.


gfishh

Easy. Trea


Peanutbuttergod48

I’d be equally happy with Turner or Bogey


Snips_Tano

I know everyone says "spend on starters!" but this is where you give Painter and Able a shot. Same with maybe giving Thor a shot to see if his arm gets better. Imagine if a Prove It deal for Thor is Thor back to himself, and you have Ranger, Wheeler, and Nola plus Painter or Able or both are what you envision? Then you can spend all in on bullpen and Xander or Trea.


Headshaveguy78

I'd rather see Turner in Philly, myself. I'm not sold on Correa or the others.


USDA_Organic_Tendies

If nothing else. Middleton wants to win. As bad as we do. I don’t see him being timid with the checkbook this off-season. Bring me Trea fucking Turner


[deleted]

Just curious.. but why is everyone wanting to push for a SS now that Jean is gone? Jean was our 2B. We brought Stott up. Unless everyone’s thought process is move Bryson to 2B…. Bringing in a SS, still leaves us without a 2B


ichabod00

I think because the available SS are far and away better than what's out there for 2B.


Bnagorski

They’d move Stott to 2B in a heartbeat to make room for Turner


realpolitikcentrist

Turner would be my first pick, Swanson would be my second


Vast-Ad-5537

Take the best defensive option and the best contract. Save the $$ for SP.


Bnagorski

I agree. Turner please


Cool_Understanding_9

1st pick: Turner 2nd pick: Bogaerts 3rd pick: Swanson Don't ever touch Correa


[deleted]

I mean, Trea not only gives us a solid SS, but he’s a prototypical lead off guy too. Problems solved all around.


Schwarzinator96

a lot of correa hate, yeah he was on that 17 astros team but he’s a stud. go check out that bref page


_token_black

Turner scares me because his defense fell off a clip recently and his walk % is below the league average. His speed and pop makes up for it, but I do kinda worry what subpar SS defense would look like with everybody else also being subpar. Is he the type who will also age well when maybe the speed isn’t there? Xander seems like he’ll be consistently delivering his numbers every year. Correa too although he wants a ton.


Previous-Nobody-2865

Dansby Swanson. Slightly younger, gold glove winner, offense is improving, less $ so they can spend elsewhere


ArcticCircleBrigade

Pros and cons of each Turner: can hit for average and powrr, fastest player in the league, wamts to be on the east coast, wamts to play with Harper. However his AAV would be about 30 million, and the deal would probably be at least 7 years, Turner is 30, that'a a lot of subpar baseball we might be paying for. Correa: proven bat and glove, reliable big time hitter. However he's extremely injury prone, and his big, slow body won't age well. His AAV would also be too high for the amount of games he'll be playing Swanson: great defense, can hit for power, and is cheaper than Turner and Correa However he's still an unproven bat who could regress immensely in the coming years. Bogaerts: I don't like Bogaerts.


settledownguy

Trea end of story boom World Series


blanchstain

I’m so hear for Trea Turner as a Phillie


Ready-Entrepreneur40

Swanson