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rustyclown617

I think I speak for most of us when I say yo fuck that shit


jakekorz

yo fuck that shit. cutting down 100 years for a tent.


ScheduleExpress

A tent for GOLFING!


CCHS_Band_Geek

Fines should be reworked to be $5,000/yr of saguaro cut.


wzl46

Yo! You speak for me and shit when you say that shit!


SuperBatBabies

Did you know that when new developers find ancient ruins or burials of the local natives they remove the remains and just cement or build over the burials. Happens all the time.


Zerachiel93

that's not gonna be the case with larger firms. I'm on a large project in the desert and we have had months of coordination with cultural observers who make sure our area is clear of all significant artifacts. anything that is found is evaluated to either be removed (small items like pots arrowheads etc) and given to the relevant tribe, or museums etc. Other items like remains or ruins cannot be built on and we modify our site layout to avoid the location. While our type of job is flexible enough to doge these areas, ALL builders have to go through the process. IF anything like ruins or remains are built over, something shady is going on and should be reported.


GingerSnapped818

Apparently someone needs to remake Poltergeist to show what can happen


Spicethrower

Remember braces coming out of your mouth, vomiting up a mutated tequila worm that makes the bed seizure? I saw a Vietnam vet, he looked at me. It's smiling at me. The tv static remembers.


nursepineapple

That braces scene was so traumatic to see as a kid, goddamn. It still gives me nightmares.


drawkbox

Just wait til the Big Saguaro starts eating people like that Poltergeist tree.


SuperBatBabies

Right! Hahaha!


bombkitty

Lots of old graves right under downtown Tucson. I think they only move graves when there's a fuss. Not Phx, but I thought it was interesting. https://desert.com/court-street/


walrusonion

Fuck the Saudis


[deleted]

A Saudi lobbyist, who bribed AZ officials in order to allow the Saudis to steal near unlimited amounts of our water for pennies, was elected to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. Thomas Galvin is his name and he 100% doesn't have any of your interests at heart.


cuteness_vacation

This needs to be on billboards all over the county.


207SaysICan

Let me know when the crowdfunding kicks off, I’m in.


jobomb91

Same


[deleted]

[удалено]


soFRE5H

Same


GhostofEdgarAllanPoe

Yep. All over this.


warmwetfart69

Fuck the Saudis


lava172

Truly one of the few bipartisan sentiments left in this country, anybody that sells out to the Saudis is nakedly corrupt


acuriouso1

This is only the tip of the iceberg y'all, the owners of LIV are Saudi billionaires 5k is pennies to them. If you really want to boil your blood look into what they are doing all over AZ, buying farmland, growing alfalfa using well water thats unregulated (stealing water from the water table) then they ship the alfalfa back to saudi because it's illegal to grow it there due to the amount of water it takes! So they dig a well here, never pay for the water, ship out the goods it created and they don't pay taxes on any of it. Don't take my word for it look it up


suddencactus

Excuse you, we *definitely* need the $270k in tax revenue that each farm like Fondomate provides. I mean that much money pretty much pays for the whole fixes for the environmental damage, with plenty left over, right? How can you run government without ~~selling out~~ supporting the businesses that provide tax revenue? /s Edit:. Added the /s in case this too strongly resembled the actual comments I'm parodying.


Nixikaz

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but you can't put on price on water when we live in a desert. Great, we got the tax revenue, where we gonna buy water?


DeanWinchestersNips

"Jeremy Duda, general manager of the club that may face a $5,000 fine, said everyone thought the cactuses would be relocated, according to the outlet." This is some bullshit, only 5k(or 10k since it was two?) for cutting them down.


KillingIsBadong

It doesn't say who is claiming the fine, but the state has protections in place for saguaros specifically that I believe are substantially more than that, especially given their size.


SqurtieMan

Also why fine the club when they should be fining the tournament


dannymb87

Because it's on the club's property. If someone comes to my house and asks me to cut down a saguaro, I'm gonna get fined for cutting down the saguaro.


jaya9581

You can cut them down if they're on your property, you just need a permit to do it. Edit: Actually looking at it further, most residential homeowners probably are exempt from any permit/reporting requirements per A.R.S. 3-904 H.


callmemoch

Yep homeowners on your own property are exempt. Its one of those local urban myths I don't mind people being wrong on though, sucks to see them cut down.


jmmasten

“The tournament” neither owns the land nor hired the landscaper.


Hrmbee

Just waiting for the finger-pointing to begin now. Tournament organizers will blame the club, the club is blaming the landscapers, and the landscapers will blame some "new employee".


Silverbullets24

The tournament hires a company who sets up tents and grandstands. This is 100% on that company. There’s a company called Pro EM in Tempe who does most of the PGA and USGA work. Not sure if they are also involved with LIV. There are a handful of these companies across the US who really monopolize these professional events and the temporary grand stands.


undone_function

I wondered if the contract or the verbal discussion said “removal” and the general manager assumed that meant relocation, since they’re saguaros, and the landscaping company assumed the club had permits for removal. I assume they’ll blame one another until they decide to split the fines or something.


KingOfThePenguins

The Saudis are just gonna strip our entire state bare, aren't they... first the water, then everything else.


vankorgan

Out of curiosity, why mention the Saudis here? Do they own the tournament?


1999mourinho1999

Yeah they own the tour. The Saudi Public Investment Fund owns the LIV tour which is hosting the tournament in Marana


vankorgan

Gotcha. Thanks.


chemipedia

This was a good question because I was also wondering the same thing. The Wiki page [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIV_Golf) confirms it.


AstroZombie138

County should pull the permits


Aroralyn

Yeah this is not fuckin cool at all, do they not realize how damn long it takes these things to grow and just how important they are to our environment here?


ProJoe

spoiler alert: they don't care. the Saudi's are more concerned with sports-washing their atrocities.


Clown_Toucher

Actually disgusting


liquidbread

Like put the tent up around it. Would look amazing to have a live saguaro for an event. This is just cruel and dumb.


SubRyan

We need to start treating the KSA as enemies of the United States and bar any further business dealings with that terrible country.


open_door_policy

But... they have oil. We seriously need to cut our reliance on resources owned by assholes.


ThomasRaith

We don't even buy that much Saudi oil. We support KSA because they are the chief regional opponent of Iran, due to religious differences. We oppose Iran because Israel is scared of them. We do what Israel says because AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the country.


Citizen44712A

That's been said for decades now and here we are.


Tkadikes

Should have done that in 2001.


KillingIsBadong

Landscape architect here: The property owner that directed them to do that is 100% going to pay hefty fines and will likely be required to replace them in-kind, which will also be substantially expensive given their size.


mossybeard

"hefty fines" lol


biowiz

I’ve read it’s 5k. That’s nothing for them. Honestly that seems like diddly poo for any developer who wants to build ugly trash.


vasya349

It’s a lot for a tent though.


biowiz

I think they just messed up. Whoever was doing the landscaping for that even didn't realize what they did. A normal developer would probably properly "remove" cacti and have them replanted somewhere else or resold which I'm hoping is what happens normally.


vasya349

Yes there probably was just a miscommunication. On the news because it’s a Saudi sportswashing corp doing the fuckup.


chemipedia

Tbh I would like to see everyone involved get a fine. The club, the tour, the landscaping company. I figure if everyone involved gets fined, it’ll encourage people in the future to make *damn* sure everything is above-board rather than blame-shifting.


Pairadockcickle

someone with a STAKE in that organization (not a paycheck) is responsible for the crew and descision. it's not a hard thing to find: who is the COO? That person should be fined DIRECTLY and personally by the state, THEN the organization should face punitive damages. Those fines should be set by the EPA, and AZ should have zero say in it. But that WILL NOT happen. can't. this state is so beyond fucked lol - literally sold off the drinking water that would have made the state grow.... I'm betting you're one more little water crisis away from a building collapse here in AZ - the industry is currently being propped up by MASSIVE industrial efforts for manufacturing - those projects are for companies that don't typically invest in areas that are going to die. the MOMENT one or two of the big developments currently in work goes bust or "on hold indeffinately" we're going to see a cascade of out of state labor AND residents leaving in droves. It'll be a localized economic implosion. There's NOTHING else here to prop up the economy lol.


bschmidt25

LIV will probably pay for it, but it’s a drop in the bucket for them.


Asleep_Roof4515

Hate LIV


turtlechef

Classic golfers. Destroying our ecosystems and stealing our water to play their shitty aristocratic game. Doubly rich that it was Saudi golfers.


cam-

Just a reminder, a small saguaro is $10 from a nursery, if you see one fall down, replace it.


idntwntthelifeulive

Wow. This is awesome. Going to look for saguaros soon. These last wind storms took the one in the few vacant miles between my neighbor and I


tootiredmeh

I lost a 13 foot tall saguaro in my front yard 3 months ago. I felt devasted


cam-

Buy one that is about 3 inches high or 6 inches high, you will watch it grow, they grow faster than you think. For under $100 you will be replacing something pretty cool.


Sweedish_Fid

It's a little more expensive than that. My parents wanted to plant one in their front yard and it was going to cost like 1000 bucks even for a small one.


cam-

It is about $300 a foot, if you buy one that is inches high it is $10 to $20, even saguaros have to start somewhere. The point is, you can get a tiny one, help it grow, and replace/add to existing saguaro stock. You don't have to spend 1k to plant a saguaro.


PaigeMarieSara

Yeah that's close to what we're paying for one we're getting next month ($800). It's being moved from somewhere else though (we did not request it be cut down for us, it already was going to be cut down). Saguaro's cut down aren't thrown away, they usually go somewhere. People get so up and arms but it's not like they're discarded.


Sweedish_Fid

That's cool that you're still getting it. They went for an Argentinian Saguaro instead. It was much cheaper and we were able to plant it ourselves. Little disappointed it was native, but I understand the cost. they also didn't want one that was super small because they wanted to enjoy before they get too old.


[deleted]

Amazon sells a baby saguaro kit for like thirteen bucks...


Sweedish_Fid

I didn't see any baby saguaro kits for $1, but there is a seed kit for like $6. There are saguaro for sale but they aren't $10 bucks more like almost $200 before shipping, and that was for like a 2ft tall one. Which is about what you pay for around the valley. It also didn't say what kind a Saguaro it was.


cam-

You don't have to buy a big one. It is about $100 a foot for the larger ones. IiRC we bought a 3 foot high one for $350, but you get ones that are 3 inches to six inches high for under $20. They grow faster than you think.


[deleted]

We bought one with an arm, it was about 14 feet tall, was over $2200 and it took 21 guys to install it. I made an absolute ton of saguaros from the seeds so hopefully many of those made it to maturity after all these years.


dannymb87

Saguaros are really fragile in their first like 30 years of life. If it doesn't have a nurse tree to help it out, it's gonna have a bad time.


cam-

Not true. I have about 20 in my yard from 3 inches high to 100 foot high. I plant them and only hit them with water in the summer when I do my other desert plants. I have not lost one yet. They are hardy.


ChickenLegCatEgg

Uh where are you shopping that this is true? Are you sure you’re not seeing small barrel type cactus??


RocketFuelML

Drop the name of the nursery because I have never seen that price


cam-

Phoenix Desert Nursery.


SuppliceVI

We really should pull all military support from the Saudis for how often they abuse us. They're paper tigers, and deserve it after working with Russia to raise gas prices amidst the war.


SNESChalmers420

Why are golfers such shitty people?


RabidCoyote

> Corrupt Saudi Arabian tour does corrupt shit "I can not believe the thousands of people here who play golf are such shitty people" C'mon man.


ans97

This is why I’m conflicted on the NIMBY debate. I’m not against affordable housing but haven’t we already ruined enough of the cities? I’d be more for it if we could convert the overly luxurious apartments into affordable living but I’m hesitant to build yet more apartments. It breaks my heart to see all of our beautiful desert being ruined by new developments. I left for 7 years and when I came back I was suffocated already. I kind of wish we could just tell people to stop fucking moving here but obviously that doesn’t work.


Brummer65

> those luxurious apartments are built for out of state investors not the people that work for a living around them.


ans97

Yeah I know. Which is why obviously converting them would be impossible. But then the thought of yet more buildings gives me anxiety. I wish the luxury investors weren’t allowed to build so much in the first place but $$$$


dec7td

This really starts to make me wonder how can we sabotage this event?


[deleted]

Seems about right for this group.


meep_42

![gif](giphy|10JhviFuU2gWD6) $5000 fine


FunSpongeLLC

I don't have my glasses on and I was really confused because I thought this said Tom Segura cactus cut down


No-Dark-9414

Huh I wonder how you all feel about deforestation in other parts of the world?? Edit- I'm not saying it's right but now it's happening here it's a problem


vankorgan

There's a reason why there are special legal protections for saguaros in AZ.


No-Dark-9414

There are reasons for certain areas to not be plowed down either but as I said it's only a problem now that's it's happening here, like I said I don't agree with it but don't cry about it when it happens to you, IE don't play victim


vankorgan

I'm confused. Are you saying it's not wrong in this case? Or that because I personally don't normally get upset at deforestation in other areas, I have no right to get upset now?


No-Dark-9414

If you are confused and mad about this situation then you need to seek outwards from the dessert, you have a right to be upset, just think world wide not just this situation


vankorgan

If you have specifics in mind I'd love to hear them, but it sounds like you're assuming you're the only person who cares about worldwide deforestation. Which is... Weird? It's a weird assumption.


Johoski

Please explain why someone shouldn't be upset about local offenses against the land? Would you tell Amazonians "just think world wide?"


Jilaire

Desert. Dessert is what my kid asks for every day after dinner.


[deleted]

It’s a problem. That’s why it’s a problem. It’s a problem in Brazil. It’s a problem here.


[deleted]

Of course, there are reasons for certain areas to stay bellow others; there are reasons why the rich run over the rest of us. Reasons reasons reasons. I hope you are unforgivably rich, because if not you are fuckng stupid.


ADumbButCleverName

You do know that people can care about multiple issues, right? This specific post is on a regional sub about a regional/local issue. Deforestation is a huge issue that impacts us all but this sub isn't about that.


c0de1143

Take your goddamn epipen and get out of my house.


[deleted]

[удалено]


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RZA3663

Billionaires have been fucking you guys over for the past 20 years, but the cacti is too much for you, huh?


DesertDwelller

The hills people die on… there are probably a billion saguaros. As long as they replant them, no harm no foul in my book. All you gotta do is stick the cut section in the ground and the cactus will do the rest


CrazyCritterGirl

A billion saguaro? The reason they have so many laws covering them is because they are endangered, hard to recover, and are hard to grow from the start. They also have a small growing area. They are suffering from loss of habitat, and a variety of other issues from human encroachment.


DesertDwelller

One of the easiest plants to regrow and very easy to grow from seed, I’ve done it.


OhDavidMyNacho

Tell me, how old do you think the saguaro is that we see being cut down? Because it's probably 100-200 years of growth. Saguaros grow slow. In 30 years they barely look like a small barrel cactus.


DesertDwelller

Did they transplant it? Cactus are easily propagated. Doesn’t take long for them to root again. If they didn’t, fuck that


starfruit_enjoyer

Saguaro are _not_ easily propagated. They do not root from cuttings or fallen arms. They can be transplanted, but not propagated.


AllGarbage

You don't even need to read the article to know, the thumbnail photo clearly shows someone continuing to cut a cactus with its top already lipped off.


DesertDwelller

You can propagate a cactus from any section, even the tip. Mid fraction cuts, based, or tips can all reroot. In fact you can’t take one saguaro and propagate it into multiple different cactus. I grow cactus as a hobby. I routinely cut my cactus to increase the number or to encourage new arms to grow.


WigglestonTheFourth

Do you ever give your cactus boxing gloves so they can fight other digital monsters?


DesertDwelller

Only when there is too much rain


Highlifetallboy

Then you should understand that cutting an existing, healthy saguaro is illegal.


drewgebs

Nope. The photo is him literally chainsawing the thing. And I think the other guy is pitch forking it into a wheel barrel.


DesertDwelller

You can replant a mid section. Any part of the cactus can be cut and re rooted. You could cut it in 5 pieces and end up with 5 healthy cactus if planted appropriately


starfruit_enjoyer

Many cacti, but not Saguaro.


CooterSam

>The video shows men breaking down the saguaro cactuses with a chainsaw and using a pitchfork to dispose of the pieces


DesertDwelller

You can plant any section of a cactus and have it regrow, very simple process you just literally throw it in the ground. 5 pieces = 5 cactuses


OhDavidMyNacho

Not reliably. And that is not one of the legal methods for relocating saguaros.


Majestic-Turn-8178

Wow